[arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

[Christy Dena]

I think we can keep going around in circles for days! :)


> But many players do roleplay and interact with the fictional characters of a

> game. I don't recognize your requirement for a "fleshed out personality"

> because, well that's a lot to ask of most movies these days, let alone a

> player of a game, but I would argue that fleshed-out personalities that are

> separate from player's actual personalities do emerge in ARGs.


"fleshed out personality" is not my requirement. The whole section on
roleplay is in response to the definition of roleplaying as a social
interaction pattern as defined by Bjork and Holopainen. This is
another reason I think why we've been disagreeing.

There are alot of games that require players to develop fleshed out
characters. Indeed, that is their lure. That is why it is important,
IMHO, to distinguish what happens in ARGs to these types of games.


> So I do recognize that some players are just players and some players

> actually roleplay and become characters in the story themselves.


OK, great.


> Lou example


Excellent example!

As I side note, I remember I was so excited when H3ist started. It was
quite an uncanny experience for me. I had just watched a documentary
on art fraud, and so I was excited about the possibility of learning
how to make or detect art fraud in H3ist. That didn't end up being
what the ARG was about, but this was an early expectation I had about
ARGs -- that I would have to really learn to do things that I'm not
currently able to do. Not to pretend how to do these things, but
actually do them. But that is another conversation that I'm loathe to
start! I think everyone on the list must be a bit sick of my
ramblings. I certainly am! :\


> I would say that everyone who participated in a live mission on H3ist was

> roleplaying, and that was absolutely central to the game.


Ah yes. But I see a difference here between roleplaying being the
primary appeal of the whole game, and being one part of it, that only
some undertake, but is vital to the game progressing.

As I said, I think we can keep going around this for days.

META:
Although I've found this conversation quite illuminating and helpful,
I don't think this listserv discussion approach has been the best way
to discuss roleplaying in ARGs. I actually think understanding would
of been better served through a short essay that defines roleplaying,
sets out how roleplaying in ARGs are different, with examples. I was
cutting directly to an assertation about the creation of fleshed out
fictional characters by players, as facilitated by PMs for social
interaction. But I think because there is very little material out
there on ARGs, any statement about one very specific aspect of the
design or experience of ARGs is interpreted in the context of the
general discussion about the topic. People need to go through the
macro before they can address the micro. I think it is important,
therefore, that any discussion about an aspect of the design or
experience of ARGs needs to be prefaced with a general overview. It is
(to me) an interesting situation, but completely understandable. But
this is why ARGology is so needed. There really needs to be more
knowledge out there, so the specifics can be explored with a
(somewhat) shared understanding.

If someone (or a few peeps!) wants to write an article on roleplaying
in ARGs for the ARGology site, that would great! :p

I'll also put in a prompt in here for Markus to post links to his
papers and the iPerg papers that discuss roleplay. I intended to refer
to them in the table before I posted it here but (you know the story)
didn't have the time+my files have corrupted+I'm away from my main
computer. It would be good, Markus, to have your recommendations on
this list to add to those already contributed by the gang. :)


On 6/26/08, Mike Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com> wrote:

> On 6/25/08 11:05 PM, "Christy Dena" <cdena at cross-mediaentertainment.com>

> wrote:

>

> It seems you use the term roleplay as including all participation in a

> game or theatre. This is why you, and others, reacted to the idea of

> 'no roleplay'. I think using the term 'roleplay' to denote something

> that occurs in every game is redudant.

>

>

> I do not consider "roleplay" to be an accurate description of all

> participation in a game. Many players play games on Unfiction, where, as

> someone said, the game is treated as a game and not an "alternate reality."

> When players speculate on the characters and what the characters might do,

> talk about story elements, and generally discuss the game as if it were any

> other piece of media, then they are clearly not roleplaying, and many

> players only experience games this way.

>

> But many players do roleplay and interact with the fictional characters of a

> game. I don't recognize your requirement for a "fleshed out personality"

> because, well that's a lot to ask of most movies these days, let alone a

> player of a game, but I would argue that fleshed-out personalities that are

> separate from player's actual personalities do emerge in ARGs.

>

> Let me use an example from H3ist to illustrate.

>

> The main character, Nisha, put out the call for help on a mission in

> Chicago. One player, "Lou," was not selected to help Nisha on this mission.

> He sent an email to another character, Ian:

>

> To: Ian

> From: Lou

> Date: June 3, 2005 7:40 PM

> Subject: Re: chicago

>

> Ian,

>

> Nisha shot me down and denied my application to participate in the

> Chicago op, saying she had a full team.  Earlier this week, after

> hearing that recruitment was low, I changed my travel plans, and I

> made plans to stick around in Chicago for an extra day, so I could be

> here for Saturday's op.  Now that I've been rejected, I'm stuck here

> in Chicago until Sunday, with nothing to do on Saturday night.

>

> So, perhaps I could be of some use to you.  Catch my drift?  We both

> know Gunter is crazy and may be thinking about retribution for Nisha's

> visit to his mom.  And let's not forget Virgil's volatile streak as of

> late.

>

> I never sent Nisha a picture, so she wouldn't know to look for me.  If

> you can come up with the location, I'd be happy to attempt to

> infiltrate/observe the op and report back to you.  We'd just need to

> set up counter-mission parameters.

>

> Sound like we could come to an agreement?

>

> Thanks

> Lou

>

>

> Lou has inserted himself into H3ist's fictional world, referencing

> characters as real and even speaks the lingo of the universe --

> "counter-mission parameters." Lou became a central part of that operation

> and a beloved player-character (by both the audience and the PMs). Many

> played the game, but Lou played a character, and no retelling of the story

> of H3ist would be complete without Lou as a character, not just as a player.

>

> So I do recognize that some players are just players and some players

> actually roleplay and become characters in the story themselves.

>

> I've got examples of situations in which I've taken actions in staged

> imaginary situations. But how much of the play was centered on that

> experience? That is, was the process of making character-based

> decisions the primary characteristic of the game, a primary part of

> the experience?

>

> I would say that everyone who participated in a live mission on H3ist was

> roleplaying, and that was absolutely central to the game.

>

>

> Is this what appeals to players of ARGs? Can ARGs be

> played without player-created characters with fleshed out

> personalities?

>

> That is a much trickier question and I don't have enough experience to

> answer it, but I can say that right now I'm involved with an interactive

> narrative that was initially perceived as an "ARG" despite lacking what many

> players would consider central elements to the genre, and when the ARG

> players were faced with a challenge that required roleplay rather than

> cracking a puzzle to further the story, they did not like it one bit, so I

> also recognize that the roleplay in an ARG is quite different from what

> might traditionally be seen as "roleplay."

>

> How's that for making a point and then completely contradicting myself in

> the same message?

>

> Best,

>

> Mike

> _______________________________________________

> ARG_Discuss mailing list

> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>