[arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

[Fernanda Silvestre]

Hi

Here in Brazil, we had two args with this kind of strategy -  "catch-up"
type of game.
Zona Incerta had Desafio Guaraná Antarctica and Teoria das Cordas had
oTambor.
Both different strategies, the first used a logial games in a site that was
linked at www.zonaincerta.com and many players came to Zona Incerta using
this way.
The other game (Teoria das Cordas) used oTambor for getting players and
these players the players had that to execute tasks to earn points. There
were levels of tasks. And the player who reached 2000 points became a
council member and this council was part of the arg.

It's a nice way to catch-up players, but a good story don't need it... The
curiosity do it best!

(sry about my english mistakes)


Fernanda G Silvestre
fernandasilvestre at gmail.com

2008/2/13, Christy Dena <cdena at cross-mediaentertainment.com>:

>

>

>

> Oh yeah, and I list examples of PM-created gameplay resources here:

>

> http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/ARGGamePlayResources1.ht

> ml -- which may assist in the discussion about making an ARG more

> accessible...

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

> Behalf Of Christy Dena

> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 13:19

> To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

>

>

>

> I find this topic fascinating too. I agree Elan that ARGs are very

> different

> to other approaches in TV. I wrote an essay a year ago that included a

> discussion about how ARGs address different players differently to TV

> shows

> & MMOs. The essay just got published last week and I've created an online

> augmentation site with some extra info about it there. You can see some

> discussion about this topic on these two pages:

>

> http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/Tiering.html

> http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/TieringTypes.html

>

> I refer to Elan's pyramid model & Brooke's section in the whitepaper:

>

> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/Whitepaper/Understandin

> g_your_Audience .

>

> I don't talk about how to move players between game tiers -- which is why

> I'm excited to see more discussions about it here -- but feel my online

> site

> may provide some background? I list some examples of strategies that ARG

> designers use (and more in the essay).

>

> Thought I'd post about it since it may contribute to this conversation.

>

> Best,

> Christy

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

> Behalf Of Jason Chrest

> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 13:03

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

>

> Elan:  I generally reward the most hardcore players with gummy bears :)

>

> Seriously, I have a few thoughts on this topic but more from the

> perspective

> of getting those level one players to level two.  One of the reasons (as I

> see it) that many stay on that first level is that they don't fully "get

> it."

>

> One approach I have considered for the game I am working on in an

> independent nature is to have a "catch-up" type of game which is targetted

> primarily at the level one players, but could be used as an extra activity

> for level 2 and 3 players.  My thoughts were to focus this on a single

> character and tell the story from his/her perspective.  This would be a

> much

> less difficult process as the puzzles would already have been solved and

> the

> character can assist in the solutions.  This would be structured to be

> replayable through the use of logins/cache that tracks player progress and

> would have a ton of flash video interfaces.

>

> Oh and if I can't type out the idea eloquently, it does sound good in my

> head and I'll blame my poor approach on some narly gummies that I think

> were

> spiked.

>

>

>

> Jason Chrest

> Aporia Cross-Media Entertainment

> www.aporiacme.com

> jason at aporiacme.com

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Elan Lee <elanlee at gmail.com>

> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:51:52

> To:"'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'" <arg_discuss at igda.org>

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM***  Re:  Casual/Hardcore

>

> I love this topic.

>

> It's such an interesting problem because I believe that this is the first

> form of entertainment that has had to think about it seriously and come up

> with a solution that no one has ever seen before.

>

> Television shows have been concentrating on the related issue of

> "character

> association" where they want to ensure that all sorts of audience members

> will tune into their shows because there is at least one member of the

> cast

> they can relate to.  (This is why there's been a massive reintroduction of

> "ensemble casts" lately.)  But from an ARG point of view, it's an even

> more

> fascinating problem to solve:

>

> Can you create an "ensemble plot"?

>

> Every project I've ever worked on has been built on a player pyramid.  It

> looks like this:

>

> \   Level 1  /

> \__________/

>   \Level 2 /

>    \______/

>     \Lev /

>      \ 3/

>       \/

>

> Aside from the amazing amount of time it took me to build that in ASCII,

> there's some cool stuff going on there.

>

> The top level (level 1) is the most casual audience member.  Probably will

> tune in once for a few minutes and likely will not return.

> Level 2 is a normal player that might check in once or twice a week.

> Level 3 is the hardcore dude that religiously posts, goes to live events,

> etc.

>

> The pyramid is upside down like that because there are a lot more of the

> top

> level players than the bottom ones so the width of any section of the

> pyramid gives an idea of how many people make up each group.  (note: we've

> found that Level 2 is almost always the "tallest" section so the image

> above

> is not scaled correctly.)

>

> The really exciting part about this (which separates it from movies, tv

> shows, or even video games that have come before) is that the pyramid

> feeds

> on itself.  The hardcore guys at the bottom create fan fic, post on blogs,

> dress up in costumes, and do all sorts of stuff that gets them on the news

> and out in the public eye.  This feeds the levels above, fattening them,

> as

> more and more people are recruited into the project and enter "level

> 1".  As

> level 1 fills up, some of those players take more of an interest and move

> down to level 2.  As those top levels get more and more full, a small

> number

> of people filter down and join the level 3 party, creating more news

> stories, which in turn, recruits more people into level 1.

>

> And on and on, the circle of life goes.  <music should swell right about

> here>

>

>

> I feel like I might have veered WAY off the topic of "should we build

> bonus

> paths for hardcore players?" but I wanted to go this way because I think

> an

> understanding of what kind of players there are, and the role that each

> one

> plays opens the doors to a lot more creative and interesting solutions.  I

> don't pretend to know the perfect answer, but I think it's pretty cool

> that

> we're building a new genre that has to think about this stuff in order to

> survive.

>

> Please let me know what brilliant solutions you guys have come up with!

>

> Elan

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Kristian Leth Fiktion [mailto:KRIL at dr.dk]

> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:59 AM

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

>

> I think it's a very interesting challenge. We're actually working with

> three

> different player profiles. Hardcore, Adventure and Casual. Our Casual

> players are the players who only drop by every once in a while to see a

> cool

> clip or get a whiff of the experience, while the Adventure players are in

> it

> for the story, read all the blogs but rarely crack a difficult code.

>

> The funny thing is that the hardcore users are actually the ones who

> propel

> the puzzle solving part of the game, while the majority watches or throws

> in

> an idea every once in a while.

>

> I think we have to create content for all layers. Since the Casual users

> (the ones that only drop by once or every once in a while) by far

> outnumber

> the Hardcore and even the Adventure players, we could tap into a much

> larger

> audience if we also have content that is readily accessible (think youtube

> clips and standalone web 2.0 items) and makes them come back for more.

>

>

> --

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------------

> Kristian Leth

>

> ARG Producer

> dr-fiktion

> danmarks radio

> segment 1

> dr-byen

> emil holms kanal 20

> 0999 kbh c

> mobil: 26749544

> arbejde: 35208488

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------------

>

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

> Fra: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] På

> vegne af Patrick O'Luanaigh

> Sendt: 11. februar 2008 15:36

> Til: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'

> Emne: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

>

> I'm thinking of the 5-10% of players who get so into the ARG that they

> constantly want more to do. It appears that many players seem happy to

> spend

> a few hours each week solving puzzles and finding out what happens next in

> the story, whereas some players want to play almost non-stop, and get

> frustrated when they have to wait a few days for something new to happen

> (as

> seems to have been a problem with Majestic?)

>

> So I guess what I'm proposing is to create an additional track of

> longer-duration challenges for players that want extra stuff to do, whilst

> keeping a track which only requires a few hours each week for the casual

> players. The casual players are happy, and the "hardcore" players are

> happy.

> What the casual players experience is the key puzzles and story, whereas

> players that want more can play for considerably longer each week doing

> additional harder puzzles that are designed to take more time...

>

> Patrick

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

> Behalf Of Brian Clark

> Sent: 11 February 2008 14:19

> To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

>

> Why would you want the activities of the "hardcore thread" from the casual

> players? Are you talking about just using that to "dumb down" the main

> experience? Are you talking just about puzzle difficulty?

>

> I guess I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "hardcore". I think there

> are

> always ways to give a little extra to "fans" (who might notice more of the

> nuance).

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

> Behalf Of Patrick O'Luanaigh

> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:37 AM

> To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'

> Subject: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

>

> One thing that has been playing on my mind recently is the casual/hardcore

> problem, and appealing to both kinds of player at the same time.

>

> This led to the idea of a 'hardcore thread' running in parallel to the

> main

> ARG that gives committed players additional longer-term puzzles and things

> to do that require more time commitment, but which casual players never

> see.

>

> So I'm thinking of specifically giving players the choice of becoming an

> 'ultra-player' (placeholder terminology!) which means that they get sent

> additional puzzles that spin off from the main story and give them

> something

> extra, but aren't key to the main story progression. If players find this

> too much, they can revert to being a normal player at any point, which

> doesn't include these extra hardcore elements.

>

> Any thoughts? I'm sure this must have been done before, and I wonder

> whether

> this is a good way of giving extra content to hardcore gamers, or whether

> I

> risk splitting the community and devaluing the 'casual' path...

>

> Patrick

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

> Behalf Of Brian Clark

> Sent: 11 February 2008 12:26

> To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Introduction - Elan Lee

>

> > Just signed up and wanted to introduce myself ... ARGs have

> > been a central part of my life for the last..well, since

> > they could really be a central part of anything.

>

> Are you late to every party, Mr. Lee? A Mr. Elan-Come-Lately with gummi

> bear

> distractions? Nice to have an "ex-dirty marketer" in the mix, wish you had

> been around for the Majestic dissection last month (feel free to bump the

> thread, buddy, I think your thoughts would be fascinating.)

>

>

>

> Brian

>

>

>

>

>

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:::Nannda:::

...the more I know, the less  I understand...