[arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

[Christy Dena]

Oh yeah, and I list examples of PM-created gameplay resources here:
http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/ARGGamePlayResources1.ht
ml -- which may assist in the discussion about making an ARG more
accessible...


-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Christy Dena
Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 13:19
To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore



I find this topic fascinating too. I agree Elan that ARGs are very different
to other approaches in TV. I wrote an essay a year ago that included a
discussion about how ARGs address different players differently to TV shows
& MMOs. The essay just got published last week and I've created an online
augmentation site with some extra info about it there. You can see some
discussion about this topic on these two pages:

http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/Tiering.html
http://www.christydena.com/research/Convergence2008/TieringTypes.html

I refer to Elan's pyramid model & Brooke's section in the whitepaper:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/Whitepaper/Understandin
g_your_Audience .

I don't talk about how to move players between game tiers -- which is why
I'm excited to see more discussions about it here -- but feel my online site
may provide some background? I list some examples of strategies that ARG
designers use (and more in the essay).

Thought I'd post about it since it may contribute to this conversation.

Best,
Christy

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Chrest
Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 13:03
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

Elan:  I generally reward the most hardcore players with gummy bears :)

Seriously, I have a few thoughts on this topic but more from the perspective
of getting those level one players to level two.  One of the reasons (as I
see it) that many stay on that first level is that they don't fully "get
it."

One approach I have considered for the game I am working on in an
independent nature is to have a "catch-up" type of game which is targetted
primarily at the level one players, but could be used as an extra activity
for level 2 and 3 players.  My thoughts were to focus this on a single
character and tell the story from his/her perspective.  This would be a much
less difficult process as the puzzles would already have been solved and the
character can assist in the solutions.  This would be structured to be
replayable through the use of logins/cache that tracks player progress and
would have a ton of flash video interfaces.

Oh and if I can't type out the idea eloquently, it does sound good in my
head and I'll blame my poor approach on some narly gummies that I think were
spiked.



Jason Chrest
Aporia Cross-Media Entertainment
www.aporiacme.com
jason at aporiacme.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Elan Lee <elanlee at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:51:52 
To:"'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'" <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM***  Re:  Casual/Hardcore

I love this topic.

It's such an interesting problem because I believe that this is the first
form of entertainment that has had to think about it seriously and come up
with a solution that no one has ever seen before.  

Television shows have been concentrating on the related issue of "character
association" where they want to ensure that all sorts of audience members
will tune into their shows because there is at least one member of the cast
they can relate to.  (This is why there's been a massive reintroduction of
"ensemble casts" lately.)  But from an ARG point of view, it's an even more
fascinating problem to solve:

Can you create an "ensemble plot"?

Every project I've ever worked on has been built on a player pyramid.  It
looks like this:

\   Level 1  /
 \__________/
  \Level 2 /
   \______/
    \Lev /
     \ 3/
      \/

Aside from the amazing amount of time it took me to build that in ASCII,
there's some cool stuff going on there.

The top level (level 1) is the most casual audience member.  Probably will
tune in once for a few minutes and likely will not return.
Level 2 is a normal player that might check in once or twice a week.
Level 3 is the hardcore dude that religiously posts, goes to live events,
etc.

The pyramid is upside down like that because there are a lot more of the top
level players than the bottom ones so the width of any section of the
pyramid gives an idea of how many people make up each group.  (note: we've
found that Level 2 is almost always the "tallest" section so the image above
is not scaled correctly.)

The really exciting part about this (which separates it from movies, tv
shows, or even video games that have come before) is that the pyramid feeds
on itself.  The hardcore guys at the bottom create fan fic, post on blogs,
dress up in costumes, and do all sorts of stuff that gets them on the news
and out in the public eye.  This feeds the levels above, fattening them, as
more and more people are recruited into the project and enter "level 1".  As
level 1 fills up, some of those players take more of an interest and move
down to level 2.  As those top levels get more and more full, a small number
of people filter down and join the level 3 party, creating more news
stories, which in turn, recruits more people into level 1.  

And on and on, the circle of life goes.  <music should swell right about
here>


I feel like I might have veered WAY off the topic of "should we build bonus
paths for hardcore players?" but I wanted to go this way because I think an
understanding of what kind of players there are, and the role that each one
plays opens the doors to a lot more creative and interesting solutions.  I
don't pretend to know the perfect answer, but I think it's pretty cool that
we're building a new genre that has to think about this stuff in order to
survive.

Please let me know what brilliant solutions you guys have come up with!

Elan

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristian Leth Fiktion [mailto:KRIL at dr.dk] 
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:59 AM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: Casual/Hardcore

I think it's a very interesting challenge. We're actually working with three
different player profiles. Hardcore, Adventure and Casual. Our Casual
players are the players who only drop by every once in a while to see a cool
clip or get a whiff of the experience, while the Adventure players are in it
for the story, read all the blogs but rarely crack a difficult code.

The funny thing is that the hardcore users are actually the ones who propel
the puzzle solving part of the game, while the majority watches or throws in
an idea every once in a while.

I think we have to create content for all layers. Since the Casual users
(the ones that only drop by once or every once in a while) by far outnumber
the Hardcore and even the Adventure players, we could tap into a much larger
audience if we also have content that is readily accessible (think youtube
clips and standalone web 2.0 items) and makes them come back for more.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Kristian Leth

ARG Producer
dr-fiktion
danmarks radio
segment 1
dr-byen 
emil holms kanal 20
0999 kbh c
mobil: 26749544
arbejde: 35208488
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] På
vegne af Patrick O'Luanaigh
Sendt: 11. februar 2008 15:36
Til: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'
Emne: ***POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

I'm thinking of the 5-10% of players who get so into the ARG that they
constantly want more to do. It appears that many players seem happy to spend
a few hours each week solving puzzles and finding out what happens next in
the story, whereas some players want to play almost non-stop, and get
frustrated when they have to wait a few days for something new to happen (as
seems to have been a problem with Majestic?)

So I guess what I'm proposing is to create an additional track of
longer-duration challenges for players that want extra stuff to do, whilst
keeping a track which only requires a few hours each week for the casual
players. The casual players are happy, and the "hardcore" players are happy.
What the casual players experience is the key puzzles and story, whereas
players that want more can play for considerably longer each week doing
additional harder puzzles that are designed to take more time...

Patrick


-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Clark
Sent: 11 February 2008 14:19
To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

Why would you want the activities of the "hardcore thread" from the casual
players? Are you talking about just using that to "dumb down" the main
experience? Are you talking just about puzzle difficulty?

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "hardcore". I think there are
always ways to give a little extra to "fans" (who might notice more of the
nuance).

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick O'Luanaigh
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:37 AM
To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'
Subject: [arg_discuss] Casual/Hardcore

One thing that has been playing on my mind recently is the casual/hardcore
problem, and appealing to both kinds of player at the same time.

This led to the idea of a 'hardcore thread' running in parallel to the main
ARG that gives committed players additional longer-term puzzles and things
to do that require more time commitment, but which casual players never see.

So I'm thinking of specifically giving players the choice of becoming an
'ultra-player' (placeholder terminology!) which means that they get sent
additional puzzles that spin off from the main story and give them something
extra, but aren't key to the main story progression. If players find this
too much, they can revert to being a normal player at any point, which
doesn't include these extra hardcore elements.

Any thoughts? I'm sure this must have been done before, and I wonder whether
this is a good way of giving extra content to hardcore gamers, or whether I
risk splitting the community and devaluing the 'casual' path...

Patrick




-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Clark
Sent: 11 February 2008 12:26
To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG'
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Introduction - Elan Lee


> Just signed up and wanted to introduce myself ... ARGs have

> been a central part of my life for the last..well, since

> they could really be a central part of anything.


Are you late to every party, Mr. Lee? A Mr. Elan-Come-Lately with gummi bear
distractions? Nice to have an "ex-dirty marketer" in the mix, wish you had
been around for the Majestic dissection last month (feel free to bump the
thread, buddy, I think your thoughts would be fascinating.)



Brian





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