[arg_discuss] ARG SIG Chat May 22nd Log plus summary

[Christy Dena]

Re the call for an ARG wiki feed (in the online last meeting). I couldn't
find something that could aggregate our whole section, but found one that
could do a feed per article (page):

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiArticleFeeds 

Best,
Christy

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2007 05:39
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Chat May 22nd Log plus summary

Thanks to everyone who turned up for our second ARG SIG chat on IRC last
week.

In the end, the chat went from 5pm to 6:45 (GMT) - almost two hours. I
hope you all enjoyed it!

Next chat will be in approximately 3 weeks time, details TBA.

Major topics:

GDC

 - Summary of the ARG SIG meet up we had at the 2007 GDC (Game
Developers Conference) in San Francisco in March...
 - We had approximately 15-20 people turn up to the event, which was great
 - A good mix of people, both PM's and non-PM's, from educators and
researchers to commercial and professionals

Wiki

 - we're not using it enough: "<amartin> I'd like to ask everyone here
to consider adding *something* to the wiki before the next IRC chat -
especailly if you just have half the info, create a page with the info
you have, and others can help flesh it out"
 - Wendy, Andres, and John all volunteered to add something to the
Wiki (we look forward to seeing what you add :))
 - Evan went ahead and started a TODO page on the wiki, whilst we were
still in IRC :) - http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/To_Do
 - please post to the list if you add anything to the wiki so that
other people can help flesh-out your ideas...
 - ...we're looking into getting RSS for just our part of the wiki,
but not sure it will be possible. Wendy and Adam are asking about it
 - reminder: main wiki page is:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG

2007 Whitepaper

 - we did a whitepaper last year (available on the wiki), but it was
imperfect in many ways, and we underestimated the effort and time
needed to get it right. We need to make sure we have enough of both
before we consider doing another one
 - whoever leads the whitepaper effort will have to start by deciding
what the precise format will be and how it will be put together (one
big paper, lots of smaller papers, etc)
 - it takes between 1 and 10 hours a week, every week (starts off
small, gets much bigger towards the end), for several months to get
the whitepaper done
 - the work can be split between multiple people, but people HAVE to
be able to commit up-front the time to do their part, and to do their
bits on-time, or it all falls down
 - some discussion of topics and details of volunteering in the
chat-log - please read through if you're interested in participating
in this; a couple of people have said they'd have some time to do it,
but they'll probably need some more people to help them

Leadership Council position

 - if you have a burning desire to become a council member...email
arg_sig @ igda.org with some info saying how much time you can commit
to it, and what you would hope to do.
 - the main issue is you need to be able to guarantee your time fairly
regularly to deal with all the things that come up
 - we have only two people who spoke to me about doing this, and if
no-one else comes forward, we'll appoint someone ASAP


Adam


Full log attached, and copy/pasted below. I'm afraid my logfile didn't
preserve the timestamps on copy/paste.

---------------------
	<amartin>	while we wait, would everyone like to do a brief
self-introduction?
	<AndresQ>	I'm Andres from Argentina, I run an small advergames
and
digital entertainment company and we're trying to set up the very
first ARG here
	<AndresQ>	we also developed Greg, a Sample ARG (soon to be
posted on
IGDA site :P)
	-->|	JohnEvans (JohnEvans at chat-solu-4D154D16.dyn.optonline.net)
has
joined #arg_sig
	<mysteryjones>	Sure, for the record my name's Evan Jones, owner of
Stitch Media (a production company that integrates interactivity into
'traditional' media). I've been involved with the SIG since its first
days as I have pm'd ReGenesis and Fallen.
	<amartin>	I'm Adam Martin, I'm the current chair of the SIG. I
used
to be the CTO at Mind Candy, and spent a year and a half making
Perplex City. I'm now running a small dev studio for a large online
games / MMOG publisher
	<amartin>	JohnEvans: we're doing introductions, care to give a
bit of
backgroudn on yourself? :)
	<Rhiannon>	I'm Andrea Phillips, I work on Perplex City and have
its
whole life, former Cloudmakers moderator, current SIG procrastinator
	<JohnEvans>	Sure! I'm John Evans, an amateur/beginning game
developer. I'm interested in all sorts of game development, especially
new and exciting things like ARGs.
	-->|	imbri (imbri at chat-solu-A3D3331C.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has
joined #arg_sig
	<amartin>	hi, imbri - you arrived just in time to introduce
yourself :)
	<imbri>	hi! i'm imbri ;)
	<amartin>	:)
	<imbri>	some of you may recognise me more as brooke thompson
	* JohnEvans	grins.
	<imbri>	is that better?
	* mysteryjones	waves hello
	<imbri>	(i'm really just going to be lurking - fighting two fires in
two games - kinda insane)
	<amartin>	wow.
	<amartin>	thanks for looking in on us :)
	<JohnEvans>	go imbri go!
	<amartin>	So, I have only a very slim agenda....
	<amartin>	AGENDA:
	<amartin>	* Status of SIG activities (GDC, publications, etc)
	<amartin>	* Leadership Council / volunteering
	<amartin>	* Any other issues
	<amartin>	that's it
	<amartin>	So ... status
	<JohnEvans>	Sounds good.
	-->|	subversified
(despain at chat-solu-81ED56F8.bzm-mt.client.bresnan.net) has joined
#arg_sig
	<mysteryjones>	Adam, did you mean a report on past activities since
our last chat or current activities?
	<amartin>	both
	<amartin>	Sadly, very little has happened since the last chat
	<amartin>	at least, in terms of people starting anything
	<mysteryjones>	If GDC is on that list, then I think we had another
successful discussion group!
	<amartin>	subversified: do you want to do a quick one/two
sentence
intro of yourself? :)
	<amartin>	(we're talking about the Status of SIG activities at
the moment)
	<subversified>	Hi. I didn't want to interrupt the meeting. I'm
Wendy
Despain. Mailing list gadfly and ARG producer
	<amartin>	yep, we had another good turnout at GDC this year.
	<amartin>	IIRC it was around 13 people? (Evan, Brooke?)
	<amartin>	(Wendy?)
	<imbri>	at least, i think
	<imbri>	seemed more than that, anyway :)
	<subversified>	I had the cool metal business cards at the GDC
meeting. :-)
	<amartin>	One of hte nice things I noticed was that most
people
present had already made an ARG of some form, or were actively working
on one
	<subversified>	yeah, i thought it was around 20
	<amartin>	OK, my bad :)
	<mysteryjones>	yes - I'd say around 15, and lots of new faces which
was exciting
	<amartin>	there were a few people doing academic / teaching
ARGs
	<subversified>	our in-person meetings always seem to go so well.

:-)

	<amartin>	there were people from a major book publisher
	<subversified>	and someone who does training sims for the military
	<amartin>	there were some researchers too, IIRC?
	<mysteryjones>	yes definitely - this year has really caught a lot
of
research attention
	<amartin>	(my apologies: my notes from GDC have not yet caught
up
with me. That's *all* my notes ... all I have that made it back in my
luggage is the business cards. Including the lethal metal device from
Wendy that OMG...)
	<amartin>	(I just realised: that thing was in my hand luggage
on the
flight back. It's basically a giant razor blade. I'm amazed I didn't
get arrested :))
	<amartin>	(anyway, cool and unforgettable business card ;))
	<subversified>	(good to know for future reference that someone made
it through with those cards in their carryon. :-)
	<amartin>	and after the GDC session, most people hung around
chatting
for a long while afterwards
	<amartin>	I think we'd be there around an hour and a half
before it
really started to split up?
	<subversified>	yes, there seemed to be a lot to talk about
	<amartin>	unfortunately, on our other fronts, things haven't
gone so well
	<amartin>	AFAIAA a couple of people are doing things along the
lines
of the ideas discussed in the last IRC chat, but none of those have
been broadcast to the mailing list
	<amartin>	and no-one has attempted any of the good ideas to do
with
new publications (e.g. the guide for the press as to what an ARG is,
etc)
	<amartin>	and we've had no update from IGDA yet on what's
happening
with the mailserver
	<amartin>	(which, unfortunately, we also found out we cannot
*currently* edit/delete old posts on)
	<subversified>	yeah, they're making transitions to a new community
person
	<amartin>	has anyone here considered starting anything new,
and ended
up not doing so?
	<subversified>	i haven't really had time to look at the wiki. i
sort
of assumed work was steaming ahead there.
	<JohnEvans>	I'd help but I don't have as much experience in the
ARG
community...
	<amartin>	(link:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG )
	<subversified>	I think that's a reluctance many people feel
	<amartin>	Christy Dena did some good work pulling out the
researchers
into a page of their own
	<amartin>	and encouraging researchers she'd interviewed or
been
speaking to to add themselves / correct their entries on that page
	<amartin>	ditto with Educators
	<subversified>	yay Christy
	<amartin>	JohnEvans: there are very few people who do :) it's
a
relatively young area
	<JohnEvans>	True...
	<mysteryjones>	Does that leave the SIG mainly for ARG creators?
	<subversified>	and yet, we have problems with cliques...
	<AndresQ>	that was discussed the previous chat
	<AndresQ>	the creation of a "creators only" list
	<AndresQ>	finally, i think the idea was dropped
	<subversified>	and then on the mailing list it got shot down
	<amartin>	I'd like to ask everyone here to consider adding
*something* to the wiki before the next IRC chat - especailly if you
just have half the info, create a page with the info you have, and
others can help flesh it out
	<mysteryjones>	right - what is the status?
	<subversified>	i think i can do that
	<amartin>	yay Wendy :)
	<AndresQ>	me too
	<amartin>	Yay Andres :)
	<AndresQ>	yay we !
	<subversified>	should we post to the list when we get something
added
to the wiki?
	<JohnEvans>	I'll give it a shot. ;)
	<amartin>	yay John :)
	<JohnEvans>	:)
	<AndresQ>	there is a RSS feed for the wiki additions?
	<AndresQ>	if not, it should be easy to create
	<AndresQ>	to get updated when wiki gets updated!
	<amartin>	generally I think it would be good to post when
you've
added something - that way you can let other people know that there's
some content there that you want help with improving, by explicitly
saying it's not considered complete
	<subversified>	i don't think it's been set up.
	<amartin>	there are many people who aren't used to wiki's, and
don't
realise that they are welcome to modify what's already there if they
have more to add / something to correct
	<amartin>	I will check with IGDA about the RSS feed
	<amartin>	it certainly should be active
	<amartin>	but lots of people don't use it, so...
	<subversified>	there may be a problem with getting just one SIG's
additions onto an rss, instead of all additions to the entire igda
wiki.
	<amartin>	it may not be active because of problems filtering
out the
different parts of GIDA
	<amartin>	(yeah, what Wendy said)
	<AndresQ>	but I meant a separate feed
	<subversified>	so i'll post to the list when i make my additions,
just so people know something is going on and I'll encourage them to
get involved.
	<AndresQ>	just for the wiki
	<amartin>	yes, please
	<subversified>	the ARG SIG shares one wiki with all the rest of
IGDA.
We just have our own little part of it.
	<mysteryjones>	would it make sense to put a to-do list on the wiki?
	<subversified>	i think it would
	<mysteryjones>	I'm thinking of open source initiatives - how they
organize their groups
	<amartin>	Evan, well volunteered!
	<amartin>	;)
	<mysteryjones>	right. got it.
	<mysteryjones>	they have many systems - things like open tickets,
assigned tickets and closed ticketes
	<subversified>	i could help you with that if you need assistance
	<AndresQ>	yes, that's what I meant, sourceforge for instance
has
several feeds per project
	<AndresQ>	new file uploads, new bugs reported, etc
	<amartin>	AndresQ: yep, I'll ask IGDA for more info on what
exactly
we can do with it. I suspect the answer is likely to be "very little
beyond what is already setup"
	<AndresQ>	I want my affiliate fee back !!
	<amartin>	there's a major overhaul of the IGDA's systems due
to
happen soon, which sounds like it might provide everything we want and
more
	<mysteryjones>	great - in the meantime we'll just mimic what we can
on the wiki
	<amartin>	yep. We've had lots of good ideas for things we
could do
	<subversified>	i know the admin for the wiki. she owes me some
favors. I'll ask her what she knows about its current rss abilities.
	<amartin>	I'd prefer to focus on doing them rather than trying
to
replace the systems we're using (for now), given this probable major
upgrade about to happen
	<amartin>	excellent, thanks Wendy :)
	<amartin>	and we can do most things with the wiki for now...
	<subversified>	yeah, we can do the rss feed the old fashioned way
for
a while - typing out an email to the mailing list
	<amartin>	:)
	<AndresQ>	anything else on status ?
	<amartin>	Last year, we did a whitepaper. It's something we'd
like to
do better next time, and if we're to do anything of that scale again
then we need some people to devote a lot of time to it
	<amartin>	sorry, I meant "something that everyone would like
to do
better next time"
	<amartin>	there were a lot of problems with it, and a lot of
lessons,
but a lot of great writing
	<amartin>	unless someone steps forward soon, we won't be doing
anything this year
	<amartin>	I can help in whatever ways necessary, but it's more
than I
can manage myself
	<JohnEvans>	I'd like to help, but I'm kind of clueless as to
what I can do...
	<AndresQ>	what is needed ?
	<amartin>	there is also last year's paper in the wiki, and if
you
haven't read it yet I strongly recommend you do.
	<amartin>	if there's data in there that has changed or you
have extra
info on, feel free to add to it there
	<amartin>	To write a whitepaper, you need:
	<amartin>	1. someone with a couple of hours a week for a month
to get
the paper planned-out and authors sourced
	<amartin>	2. someone with 1-3 hours a week for a few months to
manage
all the authors, and make sure they're each getting on with it OK
	<mysteryjones>	there. To Do list activated.
	<amartin>	3. someone with 10 hours a week for a few weeks to
edit it
all together
	<amartin>	4. someone with 4 hours a week to read, re-read, and
re-re-read the edited drafts and keep it all consistent and correct
	<subversified>	some decisions need to be made about it being 1
whitepaper to rule them all, or breaking it up into several
whitepapers
	<Rhiannon>	I like smaller papers
	<amartin>	indeed. item 1 above is mainly about planning out
what the
direction and format of hte paper is
	<Rhiannon>	Less intimidating
	<Rhiannon>	More likely to be actually read
	<mysteryjones>	Wendy - I think whoever puts their head into this
will
gladly be able to make the call :)
	<mysteryjones>	Smaller would be more manageable
	<amartin>	Actually, I'd say there is a 1.5: find authors for
each section
	<mysteryjones>	and look like we're publishing much more! :)
	<amartin>	which takes around 20 hours in a month
	<Rhiannon>	I think I could devote a couple of hours a week from
July
	<Rhiannon>	But not until then
	<subversified>	i guess we should post about these on the mailing
list
to throw it open to a wider pool of potential volunteers
	<amartin>	yep
	<amartin>	good to get more questions out here so that we can
make the
first post informative though :)
	<Rhiannon>	I'd be happy to do a revamp f Methods & Mechanics,
but I
wouldn't want to do it alone
	<amartin>	one thing to add: a small but significant group of
news/journalists expected the paper to contain numerical analysis of
the ARG industry. That was a section we had no-one available to cover
last year, but was the most-asked-for after we released it.
	<amartin>	things like "predictions of how many players there
will be
next year, how much money spent" etc
	<amartin>	OK, we've had an hour, so howabout we move on to the
other
items quickly?
	<subversified>	i was involved in writing a section about that - i
posted on the list asking people to share numbers. I got zero
response.
	<subversified>	maybe this year people will be more willing to
share?
	<mysteryjones>	I'll add it to the future whitepaper topics list on
my
swanky new To Do List
	<amartin>	(great, thanks)
	<amartin>	(subversified: it guess it's going to need someone
with a
LOT of time to interview eveyrone individually and persuade them to
help out?)
	<subversified>	(and someone who has gained their trust and respect)
	<subversified>	(someone willing to share their own numbers)
	<imbri>	and whoever is working on numbers - please talk to me, i've
been doing (not so much lately) some work in that regard
	<amartin>	I think that would help a lot (offering your own to
share)
	<amartin>	I mean ... "you" as in "whoever does the asking"
	<imbri>	well argdb and ionarg are making metrics a primary concern
	<subversified>	i agree - and if it's a high profile kind of person
who has worked on high-profile games, that would be even better
	<subversified>	good to know, imbri
	<imbri>	and i've talked to a few different people about getting
metrics on their games and if we can set up various web analytics and
whatnots
	<amartin>	imbri, would you be interested in leading that
yourself?
	<imbri>	well, as we discussed at gdc, there are some conflicts
because of the finances at play
	<imbri>	which is why it's better on ionarg than the sig
	<imbri>	but i think there's some great potential here for helping
each other out
	<imbri>	(these aren't mutually exclusive things)
	<imbri>	ionarg is in a position where it can sell things to people
interesting in buying things
	<imbri>	in order to help fund future initiatives (ie printing costs,
hosting costs for volunteer genre sites, etc)
	<imbri>	that's not something that we can do with the SIG
	<imbri>	metrics are one of the few things we have that's of real
value
	<imbri>	to companies etc
	<imbri>	so, there's the thought on why metrics at ionarg vs the sig
-
but, of course, we should be working together
	<imbri>	it's crazy for us to be duplicating tasks when we have so
few
that are actually willing and able to do stuff
	<amartin>	OK, so whoever is putting the paper together should
talk to
you about it, but there are background issues that they need to be
aware of?
	<imbri>	i can't think of any
	<amartin>	sorry, I mean ... they need to be aware of your
position
with ionarg, and understand where you're coming from
	<imbri>	um, yeah, reports to ionarg will be in multiple flavors
	<imbri>	but the bias and background issues are rather obvious, i
think - we're out to help support the growth of ARGs as an
entertainment medium
	<imbri>	no different than the sig aside from the ability to
(hopefully) serve as a source of funding (one day maybe)
	<amartin>	thanks
	<amartin>	Volunteers: there were a lot of people who expressed
initial interest in joining the council, but only two of them actually
followed up with me. I sent out another email to the list, but got no
response at all. Unless I hear from someone else ASAP, I'll check
they're still interested, and then we'll add one or both of them.
	<amartin>	if you have a burning desire to become a council
member...
	<amartin>	...email arg_sig @ igda.org with some info saying
how much
time you can commit to it, and what you would hope to do.
	<amartin>	The main issue is you need to be able to guarantee
your
time fairly regularly to deal with all the things that come up.
	<JohnEvans>	so what does the 'council' do?
	<amartin>	Other than that, it's not really any different from
everyone else
	<amartin>	(anyone can start a new initiative as it is already)
	<amartin>	but you do get some extra recognition from IGDA,
such as an
exceptionally good VIP lunch at GDC :)
	<amartin>	and you become part of the public face of the SIG.
And you
can expect to get emails from me at short notice asking for help with
things :)
	<JohnEvans>	I seeeeeee...:)
	<subversified>	do you care if we're already on the equivalent
"councils" at other SIGs?
	<amartin>	yep. I can quite understand why people have shied
away :)
	<amartin>	I don't see that being a problem, if you can still
commit time.
	<amartin>	and the time commitment will probably often go
unused, it's
just you need to be *available* for doing stuff
	<amartin>	(although you'll also be expected to be a bit more
involved
in things, e.g. getting things going etc)
	<JohnEvans>	it's just that it all seems kinda vague...
	<amartin>	it's something you do more because you want to
volunteer
some of your time to help the SIG, and/or IGDA, because you believe in
what everyone's trying to do with it.
	<JohnEvans>	M-hm.
	<AndresQ>	people, I've got to leave in a few minutes
	<AndresQ>	I can save the log until the moment I leave, or
delegate to
someone else
	<mysteryjones>	It's only vague John because it's driven by the
volunteers - Adam and all of the other members help to define its
direction
	<AndresQ>	or both!
	<amartin>	JohnEvans: feel free to email the address above to
get more
info aobut it
	<JohnEvans>	Cool.
	<amartin>	Any other things to cover?
	<JohnEvans>	I'm already logging, sort of automatically, so don't
worry. :)
	<mysteryjones>	If you have anything you'd like to accomplish, the
SIG
is a great place to get it down with the help of the community
	<AndresQ>	great John!
	-->|	YOU (amartin_) have joined #arg_sig
	=-=	YOU are now known as amartin
	|<--	mysteryjones has left irc.chat-solutions.org (Connection
reset by peer)
	<AndresQ>	talk to you people by e-mail
	<JohnEvans>	Take care Andres!
	-->|	mysteryjones (mysteryjon at E6154B21.CF6D1597.9307A40F.IP) has
joined #arg_sig
	<AndresQ>	adios!
	<mysteryjones>	I've gotta run as well - thanks everyone for your
thoughts today.
	|<--	AndresQ has left irc.chat-solutions.org (Connection reset by
peer)
	<JohnEvans>	Okay!
	<subversified>	bye mystery jones
	<--|	mysteryjones has left #arg_sig
	|<--	JohnEvans has left irc.chat-solutions.org (Ping timeout)
	-->|	JohnEvans (JohnEvans at chat-solu-4D154D16.dyn.optonline.net)
has
joined #arg_sig
	<JohnEvans>	so...
	<subversified>	so.... does this mean the meeting is over?
	-->|	catherwork
(CSJava4486 at chat-solu-F0D6519A.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined
#arg_sig
	<JohnEvans>	Well, the meeting lasts until we run out of things
to say...
	<JohnEvans>	so, have we? ;)
	<catherwork>	stoopid internets kept me away
	<JohnEvans>	welcome!
	|<--	imbri has left irc.chat-solutions.org (Ping timeout)
	<catherwork>	i'll read the log sometime -- i was only going to be
a
lurker here anyway
	|<--	subversified has left irc.chat-solutions.org (Quit: )
	<JohnEvans>	Uh-huh...I suspect it's all over...
	<JohnEvans>	are you on the SIG mailing list, cather?
	-->|	subversified
(despain at chat-solu-81ED56F8.bzm-mt.client.bresnan.net) has joined
#arg_sig
	<catherwork>	i read the public web archives of it (i hate email
lists)
	<JohnEvans>	Ahhh, okay.
	<JohnEvans>	welcome back Wendy!
	<subversified>	thanks. i guess i was waiting for adam to sort of
officially end the meeting
	<JohnEvans>	Ah...yes.
	<amartin>	sorry, guys, had work emergency came up :(
	<amartin>	I'd only blocked out 5-6 GMT for this, so had to do
it
	<amartin>	anyway ... thank you all for coming!
	<amartin>	provisionally ... next IRC approximately 4 weeks
from today
	<amartin>	meeting over...
	<JohnEvans>	Cool, I think it'd be great if it werea monthly
thing. :)
	<subversified>	thanks for running the meeting Adam
	<amartin>	we're trying, but we're a bit understaffed at the
moment ;)
and there was GDC, which is always a major upheaval
	<subversified>	maybe next time we can get a bigger group here :-)
	<JohnEvans>	would be nice. :)
	<subversified>	bye everyone. see you on the list.
	<JohnEvans>	Take care Wendy!
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	<JohnEvans>	Sorry, but I think I gotta head off too. Bye all!
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does
this button d)
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<colin|afk>	hope it goes well, I'll be at work and can't be here.