[Coco] MC-11 Status Update

Tue Jul 28 17:20:20 EDT 2015

Hi Mark,

yes but if we want localization we need to be able to change the key 
codes -> real keys mapping
this way no need for qwerty keyboard and everybody can use it's national 
keyboard
normally available in ps/2 or usb

On 28/07/2015 22:48, Mark Marlette wrote:
> didier
>
>
> Interesting but I am sure you know. The keyboards dont send keys but key codes. Thus why I asked what the raw value was.
>
> The rest is all lookup on the host's side.
>
> FTDI is a good chipset.
>
> Good luck on your project.
>
> It was a learning experience as there were many issues along the way. Alot of behind the scenes in the firmware.
>
> Regards
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
> From:"didier derny" <didier at aida.org>
> Date:Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 3:38 PM
> Subject:Re: [Coco] MC-11 Status Update
>
> Hi Mark
>
> if you use a french keyboard (azerty) if you press 'A' you get 'Q'
> 'Z'  you get 'W'  '&'  you  get '1'  and so on
>
> Attention I never saw your interface for COCO
>
> I'm speaking of the interfaces I use till now (for example the CKEY)
>
> if you use a qwerty keyboard but french fingers are not accustomed to
> qwerty keyboard
> and qwerty keyboard are not so easy to find here
>
> I doubt that Darren's board has support for international keyboards :(
>
>
> there are 2 problems linked
> 1/ the absence of localization and the need of a qwerty keyboard
> 2/ the good  qwerty  keyboards becoming had to find here
>
> in my interface I'm planning to use keymaps
> to be able to use localized keyboard
>
> An American a QWERTY  Keyboard
> A German    a  QWERTZ  Keyboard
> a French      an AZERTY    Keyboard
>
> I'll load the map in the usb controller  (ftdi chip)
>
> --
> didier
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28/07/2015 22:19, Mark Marlette wrote:
>> didier
>>
>>
>> So what you are saying is that the raw keycodes coming from the keyboards that don't work are different than from the spec?
>>
>>
>> USB and PS/2 have different values for the lookups.
>>
>>
>> My raw values were always correct. Hmmmm.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>> From:"didier derny" <didier at aida.org>
>> Date:Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 2:23 PM
>> Subject:Re: [Coco] MC-11 Status Update
>>
>> Hi Mark
>>
>> the problem is quite simple, most of the interface for old machines only
>> works with qwerty keyboard
>> if you buy one  from amazon.fr you will find a ps/2 azerty keyboard the
>> signs on the key does not match the result
>> if you look for a ps/2 qwerty you find some but most of the time mini
>> keyboard so small that it's hell to use
>> and most of the time badly mapped
>>
>> if you buy a normal size keyboard most of the time it's  a usb keyboard
>> with an adaptator
>> the adaptator + keyboard is just not working
>>
>> if you try to buy from amazon.com you will find a nice keyboard + extra
>> taxes + transport
>> the keyboards becomes really expensive and you have a high chance to get
>> a usb keyboard
>> with a non working adapter...  (so I don't take the risk)
>>
>> that's why I'm building my own keyboard interface. I searched for more
>> than a year for a solution
>> I found one, I'll be able to use an azerty keyboard completely localized
>> on my old machines
>>
>> I'm tired of struggling with these ps/2 keyboard and I would have
>> preferred to see a usb
>> connector on Darren's board.
>>
>> --
>> didier
>>
>>
>> On 28/07/2015 15:34, Mark Marlette wrote:
>>> What specifically was the issue? Not working in ps/2 mode?
>>>
>>>
>>> Are these dual mode keyboards? USB with maybe ps/2 support?
>>>
>>>
>>> My experience has been zero issues with ps/2 keyboards. Yes there are bad keyboards but never bought a new bad one.
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with Aaron on usb and ps/2.
>>>
>>>
>>> Getting keys either usb or ps/2 to the coco is easy. Getting them to output any  key press is a bit harder.
>>>
>>>
>>> In the Cloud-9 PS/2 interface both RSDOS and NitrOS-9 tables are fully supported with many macro and pre canned tables as well. Programmable macros of the 12 function keys 50 keys each max.  Both keyboards can be used simultaneously if one prefers.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>
>>> From:"Didier Derny" <didier at aida.org>
>>> Date:Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 8:00 AM
>>> Subject:Re: [Coco] MC-11 Status Update
>>>
>>> Frankly after having bought around 10 keyboards most of them not working
>>> in ps/2 mode
>>> I took the simplest resolution to never use a ps/2 keyboard again
>>>
>>> my apple IIe is using a usb keyboard
>>> my c64/vic20 have already been connected to a usb keyboard  (even with a
>>> national keyboard)
>>> for my coco2/coco3 it's on its way...
>>>
>>> I won't buy 10 keyboard again to find a working one (or pay a high price
>>> for the transport)
>>> the one I found several years ago [not sold anymore] (it was the
>>> parallax keyboard for the propeller)
>>>
>>> I love national keyboards :)  and my fingers are not fitted for qwerty
>>> keyboards :)
>>>
>>> the usb only allow what was programmed in the chip used for usb
>>> if you only have HID devices software you won't connect a mass storage
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28/07/2015 13:34, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>>> Contact a business equipment/computing supplier. In the US examples are
>>>> staples, office depot, office max, Ingram micro, CDW, etc.  You probably
>>>> won't see PS/2 devices in a retail store because its become uncommon for
>>>> home use, but they all sell them.  PS/2 devices are still used by many
>>>> companies for security purposes on desktops and especially on servers. A
>>>> USB port allows many dangerous devices such as portable mass storage, while
>>>> ps/2 connectors are pretty safe, so it is not uncommon to have usb disabled
>>>> on company owned computers.  Amazon also carries quite a few, if they
>>>> deliver to your area.  Not expensive.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:33 AM Didier Derny <didier at aida.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my country, if it is still possible to find good ps/2 mouse, qwerty
>>>>> ps/2 keyboards are not common we have to buy them overseas
>>>>> most of the keyboard are just usb with a non working usb to ps/2 adapter
>>>>> and azerty keyboard are not properly decoded
>>>>>
>>>>> After having tried to find for my old machine some usb interface I'm
>>>>> finally building mine
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to buy Darren's Board it looks quite nice but with ps/2 I'm
>>>>> not so sure to buy one
>>>>> I love his  cocoSDC and I guess his new board is also very good.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> didier
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28/07/2015 04:01, Zippster wrote:
>>>>>> Well, make that over 600.  I guess a lot of those were adapters and
>>>>> similar.
>>>>>> - Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Zippster <zippster278 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, I think most older USB keyboards will support the adapters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But as Al was indicating, PS2 keyboards are commonplace.  A quick ebay
>>>>> query turns up
>>>>>>> over 6,000 listings with a wide variety of prices (starting at almost
>>>>> nothing) and styles.
>>>>>>> - Ed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2015, at 7:51 PM, Steve Batson via Coco <
>>>>> coco at maltedmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have some old keyboards around that may work then...I guess I'll
>>>>> wait and see what the end state of this thing is. I would be fun to use to
>>>>> build up a system.
>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2015, at 5:25 PM, Al Hartman <alhartman6 at optonline.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A PS/2 to USB adapter only converts the pin assignments. The keyboard
>>>>> has to have the circuitry within it to detect that you have attached the
>>>>> adapter and switch to PS/2 mode.
>>>>>>>>> That's why these adapters don't work with every keyboard.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are active adapters that have circuitry, they will cost a bit
>>>>> more money. But, you can still find PS/2 keyboards if you look on Amazon,
>>>>> eBay, and elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>> -[ Al ]-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Steve
>>>>> Batson via Coco wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Cool so I suspect that it would work fine with a PS2 to USB adapter.
>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like a great homebrew computer that you could build up
>>>>> for all
>>>>>>>>>> kinds of control projects and things like that
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>>> --
>>>>> Coco mailing list
>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>>>
>