[Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 122, Issue 46

[Ram]

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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: OT Linux question (Bill Pierce)
>   2. Re: OT Linux question (Frank Swygert)
>   3. Re: OT Linux question (Louis Ciotti)
>   4. Re: OT Linux question (Frank Swygert)
>   5. Re: OT Linux question (Louis Ciotti)
>   6. Re: OT Linux question (Andrew)
>   7. Re: OT Linux question (Bill Gunshannon)
>   8. Re: OT Linux question (Marc Charbonneau)
>   9. Re: OT Linux question (Louis Ciotti)
>  10. Introducing the next generation of Color Computer, the CoCo-X
>      (Gary Becker)
>  11. Re: OT Linux question (Frank Pittel)
>  12. Re: Introducing the next generation of Color Computer,	the
>      CoCo-X (Mike Rowen)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:21:57 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Bill Pierce <ooogalapasooo at aol.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Message-ID: <8CFF3A68F2461CC-10C8-33D34 at webmail-m135.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>John,
>Kip Koon is in SC, bout 4 hours from here.
>
>Anymore Tarheels on the list? There used to be quite a few.
>I've been trying to get Zack Sessions (Color Systems) to come to the list but he hasn't yet. He's about 10 mins from here.
>
>Bill P
>
>Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
>https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
>Bill Pierce
>ooogalapasooo at aol.com
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John W. Linville <linville at tuxdriver.com>
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 12:36 pm
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 08:49:46PM -0400, Bill Pierce wrote:
>
>> BTW John, I notice you are in Meban NC. I'm in Rocky Point, about 2
>> hours from you. I'm close to Wilmington, Writesville Beach, Carolina
>> Beach, Topsail Island etc. All within 30 mins from here. I'm originally
>> from Rocky Mount NC
>
>Howdy, neighbor! :-)
>
>-- 
>John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
>linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> 
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:33:18 -0400
>From: Frank Swygert <farna at amc-mag.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Message-ID: <5149F2DE.8040904 at amc-mag.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:05:06 +0000
>From:lciotti1 at gmail.com
>
>For windows print to pdf - have always used the free CutePDF program.
>
>I have never used a linux box as my desktop for very long.  I am always drawn back to windows because of work, and there are some types of programs that either do not exist in linux or the ones that do are so far behind I just can't fight with them.
>=========================
>
>I used to be the same way. I watched Linux for a long time until I thought it was finally "user friendly" enough that you didn't have to have a lot of technical know-how to get it to work right. Linux Mint is as load and run as you can get -- loads everything you might need, including some proprietary stuff. It's all free to use software/drivers/codecs, but many Linux distros only come with open source stuff and you have to find and load anything else. I tested Mint on my wife. I set the computer up, and had a little trouble getting her printer working, but after that she had no problem using it. She's not technically inclined at all -- strictly turn it on and use! Her only complaint was some of the little seek and find type games wouldn't run. That was a slow machine (P4 single core) with Mint 9. After a year on that I got her a triple core machine and Windows 7, but I switched my main computer to Mint 11 (I'd use 12, it's the last long-term support release) and haven't look
> ed back! I bought the PageStream DTP package (mature and supported, not in development like Scribus, which is still a good candidate) and I purchased CrossOver (a commercially supported version of WINE -- main advantage is it's easier to install Windows software) as well. I don't mind paying reasonable prices for good software, not the inflated prices most Windows software of equal caliber sells for. I needed a good reliable DTP package. I've been running some Windows software (mainly my address database) using CrossOver. It runs flawlessly, just as if it were on a Windows box. Not all software does that, but most does, including many games. You might want to try again!
>
>-- 
>Frank Swygert
>Editor - American Motors Cars Magazine
>www.amc-mag.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:58:40 -0400
>From: Louis Ciotti <lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<CAL1yNpzGwZm0JpqEsOzp9zsOQZwx+++OD6Hee+hCcyYRZOBVFQ at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>While it nice to have everything on on DVD as you say, I would rather have
>just the OS, and then add the software as I need it.  Matter of opinion and
>likes.  Good discussion.  And Yes I also remember when DOS when on one
>floppy, and then computers like the COCO where I cut my teeth on
>computers... aaaa  the golden years of the computer... many choices for
>different idea of what a computer should be.  Now thre are three camps,
>really just one if you look at it interms f hardward, X86 is your only real
>choice, save the ARM variants that are just getting a foot hold/decent
>market share.
>
>On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Frank Pittel <fwp at deepthought.com> wrote:
>
>> For the most part I agree with what you're saying. In fact the only thing
>> I disagree with is your
>> referring to the increase in the size of distributions as being a problem!
>> I think that the increase
>> in the size of a linux distribution is a good thing and is the result of a
>> lot more software being
>> available! I've been using linux now since the early '90s and even then
>> installed from a cd.
>> Installing from floppy may have been possible but would have used a LOT of
>> them! I'm not fond of the
>> M$ look and feel a lot of distros are leaning towards but can live with
>> it! Far better to deal with
>> KDE or GNOME as it is (never thought I'd say that about the current
>> version of gnome) then have to go
>> back to the good old days of editing X config files by hand! How many
>> remember the days of
>> calculating "dot clocks", etc, etc! Personally I don't miss it and would
>> gladly give up 30-40MB of
>> disk space for an X config app or three!
>>
>> I also like having most of the software I would ever want to use available
>> to me on a DVD or two. I
>> do miss having control over what got installed but for at least the last
>> ten years have just
>> installed everything by default. There's a lot of free space on the multi
>> terabytes of disk that I
>> have!!!  As others have pointed out for those that want (or need) a linux
>> distribution that will fit in a
>> small disk there are a number available.
>>
>> Remember a "modern" linux distribution is more than just the OS. It has
>> most if not all of the
>> software you'll need. It's not comparable to windows unless you consider
>> windows combined with
>> office, outlook, quicken, gimp, at least a C and C++ compiler, mysql, etc,
>> etc, etc. After that add 3-4
>> extra word-processors and spreadsheets and other development libraries
>> just to give the users a little
>> extra choice.
>>
>> The Other Frank
>>
>> PS - sorry about the soapbox style rant but than again I remember when DOS
>> fit on a single 360K
>> floppy! :-) Also as I go back and reread what I wrote only the first
>> couple of sentences are in reply
>> to Bill's post. The rest is just my commentary on the "linux has gotten to
>> bloated" turn this thread
>> has taken.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:29:34AM -0400, Bill Pierce wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think the real problem with the new distros of Linux lies with
>> the developers, but with the users and the manufacturers. The more new
>> hardware came out, the more people demanded it. First people wanted to be
>> able to "click" on stuff instead of having to "type" a command... then
>> Harry wanted a driver for his SuperSound sound card and Jack wanted a
>> driver for his 20 million color graphics card... then Jill wanted to use
>> those new fangled CD roms and Susie wanted to watch DVDs.... the Peter
>> wanted it all to install automatically and Paul wanted it to recognize his
>> Tibeten Throat Singing Interface,,, Sound familiar?
>> >
>> > Running the latest version of Mint, I put Linux at about the state of
>> Win 95's last incarnation or maybe early Win 98 1st edition. It runs
>> good... just don't throw any monkey wrenches in there. Of course someone
>> with a little knowledge can go in, remove all the fluff, throw away the
>> HouseWifeWare and have a pretty stable, compact operating system.
>> >
>> > I have an AMD quad-core running Windows Vista, an old Gateway running
>> Windows Server 2003, and 2 laptops running Windows XP. You can get on any
>> of these machines and you would think you were on a stripped down version
>> of Windows 98 SE. My machines do not even run screen savers or have a
>> desktop or wallpaper. The all have black screens with nothing on them... no
>> burn in. The "Startbar" is on auto hide and my desktop icons all live
>> there. All I have to do is move the mouse to the bottom of the screen and
>> there's all my software. I spent 3 days uninstalling stuff on Vista and
>> finding all the settings that MS had hid (again) so that Housewive's
>> couldn't click on something like "services.msc" and screw up the system and
>> call tech support. They give 'em a way to set that way-cool screen saver
>> and  to change their "pretty" wallpaper, with links for Facebook, Twitter,
>> Online Games, Windows Live, and MSN. At least the AOL and Prodigy links
>> finally went away.... only to be replaced b
>>  y
>> >  EarthLink and NetZero..
>> > My main computer runs 24/7/365 with regular reboots about once a day to
>> every other day to clear memory of rogues as I run a lot programs that tax
>> even a quad core system like "Vegas Pro 10" that's usually playing anywhere
>> from 12 to 32 individual tracks (waves) of audio (at 50-150meg per track)
>> at the same time while I add in and adjust VST digital effects (plugins)
>> which can number in the hundreds before I'm done. After operations like
>> that, a good reboot is needed before playing World Of Warcraft. When I run
>> the Coco emulators, a lot of times I have 2 instances of Vcc and an
>> instance of XRoar all running their own instance of Drivewire each with
>> it's own GUI. Talk about the ultimate Coco :-)
>> >
>> > Bill P
>> >
>> > Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
>> > https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
>> > Bill Pierce
>> > ooogalapasooo at aol.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Aldo Lagana <a.lagana at snet.net>
>> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> > Cc: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> > Sent: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 10:05 am
>> > Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>> >
>> >
>> > There is the Linux Tiny project whose aim is to deflate the size of the
>> kernel.
>> >
>> > I too cut my teeth with a disk less Internet gateway in the 90's ;-)
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Mar 20, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Louis Ciotti <lciotti1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I would love to make the switch to linux as a desktop, especially with
>> what
>> > > Microsoft has done with Windows 8, which I use, but I have "forced" it
>> to
>> > > ackt like what I will call "normal" windows with a start menu and a
>> real
>> > > desktop using "classic shell".  Right now it seems the think to do in
>> Linux
>> > > is to create a new distribution.  I think that has fragemented the
>> > > developement, with each of the major distributions going down different
>> > > paths.  Initially one of my draws to Linux was that fact it was not
>> overly
>> > > bloated.  It has lost that now with each major needing at a minimum
>> > > somewhere around 100mb just for the install media.  My first
>> introduction
>> > > to linux fit onto a hand full of floppy disks, and I used on a
>> headless 486
>> > > to act as a router to share my internet connection, this was before
>> routers
>> > > before those became cheap throw away boxes. It ran flawlessly for 5
>> years,
>> > > the last 3 months the hard drive failed and I had no idea, it just kept
>> > > running until the power failed.  That worked with noting but a CLI.
>>  Now a
>> > > minimal linux distribution for a CLI only interface would never fit on
>> a
>> > > small mound of floppies.  It seems to me somewhere the idea of tight
>> > > efficient code got lost, but this is coming from someone who has only
>> > > dabbled in writing software code, maybe I am wrong on that.
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Bill Pierce <ooogalapasooo at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> Same here, I use professional multi channel audio recording software
>> and
>> > >> Linux just hasn't caught up yet, though Ardour in the 64 Studio 2.1
>> distro
>> > >> is looking better all the time. The problem with audio software for
>> Linux
>> > >> is (from what I've read) there's so many "plugin" loops that tie
>> various
>> > >> Windows and Mac type drivers into Linux, that real time recording
>> suffers.
>> > >> There is development for "true" drivers in this area, but I need ASIO
>> > >> (industry standard for studios) and Linux just hasn't got the full
>> support
>> > >> yet. I record at 24 bit 48 khz and sometimes 96 khz using up to 8
>> channels
>> > >> (soon to be 16) simultainiously and the overhead of Linux's audio
>> system is
>> > >> just too much for this kind of recording.
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm using the Linux box to test my latest Coco creation on the Linux
>> > >> Drivewire server. I needed to see if the program responded the same
>> under
>> > >> Linux as it did in Windows. Now if I could just find someone with a
>> Mac DW
>> > >> server and a 512k Coco 3 running NitrOS9. I really need to test this
>> > >> format. Anyone interested, send me an email
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks guys
>> > >> Bill
>> > >>
>> > >> Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
>> > >> https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
>> > >> Bill Pierce
>> > >> ooogalapasooo at aol.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: lciotti1 <lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>> > >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> > >> Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:05 pm
>> > >> Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> For windows print to pdf - have always used the free CutePDF program.
>> > >>
>> > >> I have never used a linux box as my desktop for very long.  I am
>> always
>> > >> drawn
>> > >> back to windows because of work, and there are some types of programs
>> that
>> > >> either do not exist in linux or the ones that do are so far behind I
>> just
>> > >> can't
>> > >> fight with them.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Frank Swygert <farna at att.net>
>> > >> Sender: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
>> > >> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:47:36
>> > >> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> > >> Reply-To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <
>> coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
>> > >> From: Bill Pierce<ooogalapasooo at aol.com>
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks John
>> > >> I actually have Adobe Acrobat 5.0 for Windows, but it will not install
>> > >> under
>> > >> Windows Vista 64 bit. Too old
>> > >> It allowed me to "print" to pdf from MS word which was great.
>> > >> So this is exactly what I was looking for.
>> > >>
>> > >> ======================
>> > >>
>> > >> There are several "print to PDF" utilities for Windows as well. I've
>> been
>> > >> using
>> > >> a product called "PDF995" (www.pdf995.com). Works great. You can go
>> to
>> > >> www.downloads.com and find something as well. PDF995 has you install
>> > >> Ghostscript
>> > >> and works though that. PDF995 installs a printer driver, you just
>> select
>> > >> that as
>> > >> the printer and away you go, just like the Linux PDF printer.
>> > >>
>> > >> I tried Scribus for DTP but it just wasn't developed enough for me
>> yet,
>> > >> too many
>> > >> changes taking place. I bought a copy of PageStream (PgS) which is a
>> mature
>> > >> product and works well. I don't mind paying for Linux software as
>> long as
>> > >> it's
>> > >> reasonably priced ($100-150 in this case), is supported, and works
>> well.
>> > >> PgS was
>> > >> originally written for the Amiga and was popular on that platform, was
>> > >> ported to
>> > >> Windows and Linux.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Coco mailing list
>> > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Coco mailing list
>> > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Coco mailing list
>> > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Coco mailing list
>> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> >
>> > --
>> > Coco mailing list
>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Coco mailing list
>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:18:26 -0400
>From: Frank Swygert <farna at amc-mag.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Message-ID: <5149FD72.40409 at amc-mag.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:27:32 -0400
>From: Louis Ciotti<lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>
><snip>
>Initially one of my draws to Linux was that fact it was not overly
>bloated.  It has lost that now with each major needing at a minimum
>somewhere around 100mb just for the install media.  My first introduction
>to linux fit onto a hand full of floppy disks, and I used on a headless 486
>to act as a router to share my internet connection, this was before routers
>before those became cheap throw away boxes. It ran flawlessly for 5 years,
>the last 3 months the hard drive failed and I had no idea, it just kept
>running until the power failed.  That worked with noting but a CLI.  Now a
>minimal linux distribution for a CLI only interface would never fit on a
>small mound of floppies.  It seems to me somewhere the idea of tight
>efficient code got lost, but this is coming from someone who has only
>dabbled in writing software code, maybe I am wrong on that.
>
>========================
>
>There are several small Linux distros that don't take many resources to run and are mainly targeted at compact installations and/or older hardware. DSL (Damn Small Linux) is one, Puppy Linux is another. Search for "small linux distros" and more will come up.
>
>-- 
>Frank Swygert
>Editor - American Motors Cars Magazine
>www.amc-mag.com
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:35:20 -0400
>From: Louis Ciotti <lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<CAL1yNpwcD9vVt7Sc39FMNwDR-7Armi3LVQUM=W+Yo=PdHk_U=g at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>DSL:  50MB live CD
>Puppy: 100 MB
>
>Smallest I have found but not tried are these two
>TTY LINUX is 13MB
>Tinycore is 10mb...
>
>Tinycore looks interesting since it has a GUI.
>
>
>On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Frank Swygert <farna at amc-mag.com> wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:27:32 -0400
>> From: Louis Ciotti<lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Initially one of my draws to Linux was that fact it was not overly
>> bloated.  It has lost that now with each major needing at a minimum
>> somewhere around 100mb just for the install media.  My first introduction
>> to linux fit onto a hand full of floppy disks, and I used on a headless 486
>> to act as a router to share my internet connection, this was before routers
>> before those became cheap throw away boxes. It ran flawlessly for 5 years,
>> the last 3 months the hard drive failed and I had no idea, it just kept
>> running until the power failed.  That worked with noting but a CLI.  Now a
>> minimal linux distribution for a CLI only interface would never fit on a
>> small mound of floppies.  It seems to me somewhere the idea of tight
>> efficient code got lost, but this is coming from someone who has only
>> dabbled in writing software code, maybe I am wrong on that.
>>
>> ========================
>>
>> There are several small Linux distros that don't take many resources to
>> run and are mainly targeted at compact installations and/or older hardware.
>> DSL (Damn Small Linux) is one, Puppy Linux is another. Search for "small
>> linux distros" and more will come up.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Frank Swygert
>> Editor - American Motors Cars Magazine
>> www.amc-mag.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/**mailman/listinfo/coco<http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:33:16 -0700
>From: Andrew <keeper63 at cox.net>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Message-ID: <514A00EC.8030302 at cox.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>This -may- turn into an overly long rant; we'll see - but you've been 
>warned!
>
>First - regarding the OP's question on PDFs:
>
>I run Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (which is getting long in the tooth, but it does 
>everything I need so far); I have a number of utilities installed for 
>the purpose of PDF rendering, chief among them "ghostscript". There's 
>also "evince".
>
>For PDF creation, though - it's actually kinda murky to me! I know that 
>it works (I do it fairly regularly) - but what's doing it, I don't know 
>off-hand. Looking thru my package manager, I see a lot of stuff checked 
>for PDF usage; one that stands out is something called "UniConvertor"; 
>but IIRC, most of the stuff goes thru ghostscript (for postscript 
>output), and then on to a pdf via ps2pdf - all of which seem to be a 
>part of the ghostscript package.
>
>So - I guess the answer would be "ghostscript"; I've never had a problem 
>generating such files; in fact, I've got my scanner set up to easily 
>allow it to sense the press of it's "quick buttons" and scan a document 
>to a PDF file. It took more than a bit of fiddling around to get it to 
>work, but now that it's set up, it works well (though usually for 
>scanning I break out XSane).
>
>I've been using Linux in one form or another since about 1995; I first 
>started off with an old plaything distro called "MonkeyLinux" (which is 
>still available, btw); it ran on top of a DOS filesystem (if you can 
>believe that!). I had it running on a 386 laptop with 6 meg of RAM 
>(story in itself).
>
>I started playing with Linux after a friend introduced me to it; I don't 
>remember the exact specifics, but I do know it involved some hacking on 
>an old pizzabox SPARC machine. At any rate, I could see there was a lot 
>more power there; it reminded me of the time I had spent playing with 
>AIX on an RS/6000 box one of my old employers had. It also reminded me 
>of the fun and spirit of the Color Computer, OS-9, as well as my old 
>Amiga boxes.
>
>I didn't jump ship from Windows immediately; it was a gradual 
>transition, but by about 1998 or so, I was completely on-board. The only 
>time I use Windows now is when it's for my work or something; although 
>I've been contemplating setting up another box for when my Oculus Rift 
>arrives (though even there, I will have options under Linux as well).
>
>I think that's what I like most about Linux - the extreme number of 
>options, in addition to the open-source nature of almost all of it 
>(about the only closed source stuff I have on my Linux box is the NVidia 
>graphics drivers, and a copy of EagleCAD that I installed to play with 
>once). I like the fact that you can get just about any modern platform 
>to run Linux; heck, even my phone (Android) runs Linux! My TV runs 
>Linux, now that I think about it!
>
>Yes - there are some things that Linux isn't good for; as Bill (IIRC?) 
>mentioned, for audio workstation use (talking production here - regular 
>audio output and such works just fine for day-to-day stuff), there are 
>limitations. As with everything, though, over time even that will be 
>overcome.
>
>I would say most of the issues with any development on Linux, when it 
>comes to needing hardware drivers, is the reluctance of hardware 
>manufacturers to write drivers, or release the specs to allow the 
>community to write drivers for the hardware. Instead, most of the time 
>the community has to resort to a reverse engineering effort, and that's 
>only available for the "popular" hardware. Anything niche will have few 
>or no developers around with the skills to reverse engineer the 
>hardware. It's been this way for a long time, only barely moving in a 
>different direction over the years.
>
>Other than that, I've rarely found an area of computing that Linux was 
>up to the task for. To say that Linux isn't advanced or capable is 
>either outright lying, or ignorance of what it can do (and I highly 
>suspect the latter). The majority of the internet and the web relies on 
>Linux; most web hosting uses it extensively, Google uses it extensively, 
>heck - I bet even Microsoft uses it extensively, but are keeping 
>tight-lipped about it (that, or they have a large backroom of monkeys 
>whose only job is to regularly reboot their servers).
>
>Yes, I am a Linux "fanboy"; I'm not wedded at the hip to it - show me 
>something better, with open-source code, and a large community of users, 
>I'll have a look. BSD is something I have looked into - but what I hate 
>about it is its "brains-fall-out-open-license"; both Microsoft and Apple 
>LOVE BSD - because they can easily take what they want from it, and not 
>give anything back if they don't want to (talking source code, etc 
>here); Apple has contributed back, but I have no doubt that they 
>probably took some things and didn't contribute anything back for it, 
>but we'll never know what those areas were. Doesn't matter though; the 
>license allows for it.
>
>Which is why some companies hate Linux - because of the GPL. But some 
>"get it". Some (companies and individuals) understand that they may not 
>always be around, but that they want their code to live on. The GPL 
>allows for this to happen. Think about all the struggles our CoCo 
>community (and other "retro" communities) have had (and continue to 
>have) because of "closed-source"! Richard Stallman foresaw a lot of this 
>back in the 1980s when he set up the Free Software Foundation and the 
>GPL. There's always been this "struggle" in the microcomputer world over 
>source code and software. I'm not really sure why; money plays a big 
>role in it - so does an "art vs. engineering" aspects of software and 
>software development, I think.
>
>The sad part about it all is that given mere years of time passing, 
>software becomes obsolete so damn quickly, so why is everybody so intent 
>on keeping it secret and unavailable for so long? Ok - well, that does 
>it; like I said - fair warning and all.
>
>/rant
>
>Andrew L. Ayers
>Glendale, Arizona
>http://www.phoenixgarage.org/
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:43:25 -0400
>From: "Bill Gunshannon" <billg999 at cs.uofs.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<42c1cd53e522965d962001f95e4eae89.squirrel at www.cs.scranton.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>>
>> John,
>> Kip Koon is in SC, bout 4 hours from here.
>>
>> Anymore Tarheels on the list? There used to be quite a few.
>> I've been trying to get Zack Sessions (Color Systems) to come to the list
>> but he hasn't yet. He's about 10 mins from here.
>>
>
>I'm not FROM SC but until about a year ago I drove thru there
>(down I77) several times a year on my way to various functions
>at Ft. Gordon, GA.
>
>bill
>
>-- 
>Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
>billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>University of Scranton   |
>Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:50:45 -0400
>From: Marc Charbonneau <timebandit001 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<CAMGemGGoYEGPjU8tV6LERYjV5MT2jVCNLyMwC7NVytFOHnPoZw at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>>I bet even Microsoft uses it extensively, but are keeping tight-lipped
>about it (that, or they have a large backroom of monkeys whose only job is
>to regularly reboot their servers).
>
>Microsoft.com's DNS points to akamai so it's resolved on Linux. Windows
>update is served by akamai, so it's apache on Linux. Skype's super-nodes
>are Linux servers.
>
>Beside, all the world stock-exchanges run on Linux. If it's good enough for
>them, it's good enough for me :c)
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:08:51 -0400
>From: Louis Ciotti <lciotti1 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<CAL1yNpydEw7psyawNWf5KPTKtTJCTpsRT22pEyZ04JG=GTyvRA at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> Other than that, I've rarely found an area of computing that Linux was up
>> to the task for. To say that Linux isn't advanced or capable is either
>> outright lying, or ignorance of what it can do (and I highly suspect the
>> latter).
>>
>
>Show me a Linux CAD package that can compete to PTCs, Solidworks, AutoDesk.
>Xilinx FPGA development (using Xilinx tools) is only "supported" on RHEL,
>same with Cadence OrCAD.  I have gotten the Xilinx stuff to "work" on CentOS
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Gary Becker <Gary_L_Becker at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Coco] Introducing the next generation of Color Computer, the
>	CoCo-X
>To: "coco at maltedmedia.com" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<1363806682.23553.YahooMailNeo at web184301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>?
>I just finished entering a project into KickStarter.com. This project is to develop the next generation Color Computer, the CoCo-X. This project develop a replacement main board for an existing Color Computer 3 case. The main board would include an FPGA to implement the Color Computer circuitry. As with the CoCo3FPGA, the max speed would depend on the chosen FPGA, the goal would be to run at least 20 MHz. The main board would also include an optional socket that would fit a 6x09E processor for users that needed cycle accurate computing. The speed would be reduced to match the processor in the socket. The main board would also include most of the original Color Computer 3?s original IO ports. The expansion slot would be implemented, but speed would be limited while accessing the slot. This first generation of main board will implement the Color Computer 3 basics. In the future, upgrades to the FPGA code to implement?an extended feature set will be
> available.
>?
>Here is a list of planned IO ports:
>?
>CoCo3 Keyboard
>Bit Banger / RS232 port
>PS/2 Keyboard / Mouse port
>Expansion slot
>CoCo3 RGB and/or VGA
>Joystick ports
>Stereo Sound
>?
>If this project is to get started, your support will be needed. For the 30 days after KickStarter approves the project, the site will allow people to pledge money to fund the project. No money will be charged until the minimum funding limit is reached. There are two levels of funding. For a $25 pledge, you will receive a "Powered By CoCo-X" sticker. For a pledge of $250, you will receive one of the first replacement main boards to install into you own Color Computer 3 case.
>?
>There have been discussions of the next generation of Color Computer for many years. A real alternative is finally here. But this can only happen with your help. I set the funding level low enough that it is doable, but high enough to get the component prices in range. The funding level might still seem high, but it does not seem to be worth getting started for less. It is all up to you. If you think this is the next generation of Color Computer, then show it and pledge. I will send out one more message as soon as the project is approved and funding begins.
>?
>Gary Becker
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:36:45 -0500
>From: Frank Pittel <fwp at deepthought.com>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] OT Linux question
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID: <20130320133645.GQ32039 at warlock.deepthought.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 03:08:51PM -0400, Louis Ciotti wrote:
>> > Other than that, I've rarely found an area of computing that Linux was up
>> > to the task for. To say that Linux isn't advanced or capable is either
>> > outright lying, or ignorance of what it can do (and I highly suspect the
>> > latter).
>> >
>> 
>> Show me a Linux CAD package that can compete to PTCs, Solidworks, AutoDesk.
>> Xilinx FPGA development (using Xilinx tools) is only "supported" on RHEL,
>> same with Cadence OrCAD.  I have gotten the Xilinx stuff to "work" on CentOS
>
>Heck, I'd be happy to find some software that runs on linux I could use to program
>the the remote control I use for my TV!! :-)
>
>The Other Frank
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:40:15 -0400
>From: Mike Rowen <mike at bcmr3.net>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] Introducing the next generation of Color Computer,
>	the CoCo-X
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<CAPoCq4BUWPMrAfeTtVk24RZ+op1zKdPP23jKD+GKW0JL4rCs0Q at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>Sounds Awesome, Gary. I could not find the project on Kickstarter yet,
>however.
>
>Cheers,
>-Mike Rowen
>
>On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Gary Becker <Gary_L_Becker at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I just finished entering a project into KickStarter.com. This project is
>> to develop the next generation Color Computer, the CoCo-X. This project
>> develop a replacement main board for an existing Color Computer 3 case. The
>> main board would include an FPGA to implement the Color Computer circuitry.
>> As with the CoCo3FPGA, the max speed would depend on the chosen FPGA, the
>> goal would be to run at least 20 MHz. The main board would also include an
>> optional socket that would fit a 6x09E processor for users that needed
>> cycle accurate computing. The speed would be reduced to match the processor
>> in the socket. The main board would also include most of the original Color
>> Computer 3?s original IO ports. The expansion slot would be implemented,
>> but speed would be limited while accessing the slot. This first generation
>> of main board will implement the Color Computer 3 basics. In the future,
>> upgrades to the FPGA code to implement an extended feature set will be
>>  available.
>>
>> Here is a list of planned IO ports:
>>
>> CoCo3 Keyboard
>> Bit Banger / RS232 port
>> PS/2 Keyboard / Mouse port
>> Expansion slot
>> CoCo3 RGB and/or VGA
>> Joystick ports
>> Stereo Sound
>>
>> If this project is to get started, your support will be needed. For the 30
>> days after KickStarter approves the project, the site will allow people to
>> pledge money to fund the project. No money will be charged until the
>> minimum funding limit is reached. There are two levels of funding. For a
>> $25 pledge, you will receive a "Powered By CoCo-X" sticker. For a pledge of
>> $250, you will receive one of the first replacement main boards to install
>> into you own Color Computer 3 case.
>>
>> There have been discussions of the next generation of Color Computer for
>> many years. A real alternative is finally here. But this can only happen
>> with your help. I set the funding level low enough that it is doable, but
>> high enough to get the component prices in range. The funding level might
>> still seem high, but it does not seem to be worth getting started for less.
>> It is all up to you. If you think this is the next generation of Color
>> Computer, then show it and pledge. I will send out one more message as soon
>> as the project is approved and funding begins.
>>
>> Gary Becker
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>End of Coco Digest, Vol 122, Issue 46
>*************************************