[Coco] Fest Chat Response/SuperBoard Update (WARNING: LONG POST)

[coco at yourdvd.net]

Hey folks, I just wanted to say a little here. Before I found this list
I found cloud-9. I discussed some of my hardware ideas with these
gentlemen and they gladly contributed ideas and advice and literature.
>From those communications, I can tell you that they are working very
hard on the superboard project. In fact, I think I need to send them a
deposit, because I want one :-) Everyone should understand that they
really aren't doing this for profit - it's a hobby (this is just my
opinion, but I have considered that the cost of the development tools
and time, etc. that Mark and Boisy have invested in this venture, could
never be recovered, especially with only 14 or so sales of a product.)
Think about it - it would have to be either a hobby or an insane love
of the Colour Computer (OR BOTH). Just search the net - look at some
development suites such as altium - the price of that software alone
precludes any profit that could ever be made selling to such a limited
customer base. Trust these guys to do what they say - I DO :-)  Thanks
for listening -rob

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Fest Chat Response/SuperBoard Update (WARNING: LONG
> POST)
> From: Mark Marlette <mark at cloud9tech.com>
> Date: Fri, April 06, 2007 6:48 am
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> 
> Brian,
> 
> Ohhhhh, so you started it. :) Just kidding.
> 
> 2MB comment wasn't the issue...and BTW, the register for the MMU will  
> allow the contents to be read back all 8bits. That was another part of  
> the chat that I didn't answer.
> 
> My main point was to update and set the course.
> 
> Thanks again for your support.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Quoting Brian Blake :
> 
> > Mark, Boisy and everybody else,
> >
> > I probably don't need to respond to this, but, as I was involved in   
> > one of the conversations, I will. It's hard to think that a simple   
> > statement of 'the Superboard has 2mb on it' could've lead to this,   
> > but, it did.
> >
> > I don't have any reason to gripe about the S/B delays as I was not   
> > around for the initial discussions and deposit. Hell, I have no clue  
> >  when all of that took place, I'm simply a future customer of Cloud9  
> >  wanting the best CoCo3 possible. So, do I want a S/B, absolutely I   
> > want one and will buy one when available. I can say that without   
> > knowing the cost of the beast (though the cost may determine WHEN I   
> > buy one). And, I'm certainly willing to wait for it. For crying out   
> > loud, I waited 18 years to find my way back to the CoCo, I can wait   
> > a little longer to have the Ultimate CoCo3.
> >
> > I've got two eBay 512k CoCo3's in my collection right now that I'll   
> > end up buying some individual Cloud9 components for (one already has  
> >  your 512k upgrade, probably end up with a Super IDE, DriveWire and   
> > PS2 keyboard adapter), but, my main project right now is my repack   
> > project, and I'm awaiting the SuperBoard for it. However, since I am  
> >  in the process of buying a house and moving, I've got plenty of  
> > time  to be patient with as I've just about reached the point where  
> > I have  to put it all away. In the mean time, I'm trying to learn  
> > Nitros9  and start learning to program the CoCo so i can start  
> > contributing  more than a bunch of half assed questions
> >
> > Besides, if I want any info, as Mark knows well, I'll simply ask for  
> >  it. I've not been disappointed with the responses I've gotten from   
> > Mark with any questions I've had regarding the S/B or any other C9   
> > products. And I've yet to talk to anyone dissatisfied with a C9   
> > purchase.
> >
> > I've rambled on long enough. Keep up the good work guys.
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mark Marlette 
> > To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2007 11:39:09 PM
> > Subject: [Coco] Fest Chat Response/SuperBoard Update (WARNING: LONG
> POST)
> >
> > All,
> >
> > While away this past weekend in Chicago at the fest, there was a chat
> > log produced which contained references to the SuperBoard and
> > Cloud-9. I would like to take this opportunity to address the
> > contents of that chat log and update the people that were not at the
> > fest about the status of the SuperBoard.
> >
> > The chat log has been edited here only to show conversations that
> > pertain to the subject at hand.
> >
> > [START]
> > {1618} Roger Taylor Rodder, the SuperBoard was due 10 years ago. I
> > truly don't think this will happen. Luckily I didn't make a $100
> > deposit like so many people did.
> >
> > {1619} curtisboyle Roger - it's a pretty big undertaking (the
> > Superboard). I have seen partially working prototypes at Mark's
> > house, but there is a lot of drivers, etc. that have to be done to
> > get everything fully functional.
> >
> > {1620} Roger Taylor Anytime I was late on delivering, I got hate
> > e-mails, but I guess since they have delivered work-up-to products
> > that people think they will eventually deliver, but I dunno fellas.
> >
> > {1623} Sock Joelav - Existing 2M upgrades work just like the 512K
> > upgrade. The only difference is the MMU bits aren't readable registers.
> >
> > {1622} Roger Taylor One guy reported me to PayPal 3 days after he
> > ordered something because I didn't reply to his e-mail quick enough.
> > I retaliated agressively so much that 2 days later he withdrew the
> > dispute and apologized. How Mark has deals with this is beyond me.
> >
> > {1622} Nick The Superboard sounds great but it does noting for me
> > that I need for game development. It also doesn't fit a PAL CoCo3.
> > [END]
> >
> >
> > I would first like to say that this past year was a year of improving
> > processes and making tasks at Cloud-9 more efficient.  For example:
> >
> > 1. Boisy and I changed the way our internal sales are handled and
> > tracked in our accounting process.  This saves us time and allows us
> > to focus on our respective products.
> >
> > 2. Most all of the Cloud-9 products are now tested on an Automated
> > Test Equipment (ATE) system. There are hundreds of hours of code
> > written and debugged with hardware that allow me to rapidly test and
> > find the manufacturing problems. I had seven SuperIDEs that I were
> > dead, and I couldn't identify the source of the problem.  On just one
> > of them, I spent over 8 hours of troubleshooting and still couldn't
> > find the problem. This being a hobby, I can't afford to throw away
> > almost $800 of product.  Now with the ATE software, it takes 3
> > minutes and 45 seconds to run approximately 4000 tests across the
> > SuperIDE with only 6 nets that I can't test or get access to. EVERY
> > board has been repaired in under 5 minutes after it came off this
> > test system. This is true for all of our other products as well. I
> > had piles of bad boards, and the pile is now empty.
> >
> > These several hundred hours of hardware/software development did cut
> > into my free time which is spent on SuperBoard development.
> >
> > I also suspended sales so that I could work on the SuperBoard. This
> > allowed me to do the above. As with any business, sales are what
> > sustains the life of the business. I had to restart sales after most
> > all of the stock was replenished. I still can't keep up with the
> > SuperIDE sales. I have another board run going out soon and this will
> > then be the final chapter on it's process improvement. The hand-wired
> > modifications that are added to the board take longer to incorporate
> > than building the whole board itself!
> >
> > As Curtis stated above, he has seen various prototype while at Lab
> > North. Don't kid yourself: this project is complex (it ain't no DVD).
> > We are changing the way the CoCo 3 operates in a fundamental way
> > (VROM and booting for example) along with many other details that I
> > don't want to explain at this moment. EVERY product (both software
> > and hardware) that we have made has paved the way for the SuperBoard.
> >
> > Nick mentioned that the SuperBoard doesn't fit in a PAL form. This is
> > true, but it reflects the reality that virtually all SuperBoard
> > customers will have NTSC motherboards.  I have several Australian
> > customers who have placed a SuperBoard down payment, having made the
> > switch to NTSC CoCo 3s and realize it for what it is and why.  I can
> > develop a PAL board but with selling only a handful of units,
> > everyone would bear the cost of the development and the SuperBoard
> > has a high enough cost as it stands now. I cannot justify raising the
> > price of the NTSC version for the few PAL orders I would get.
> >
> > When you do this as long as we have, you will realize that you can't
> > please everyone.  That said, our customer base is GREAT and have
> > shown immense patience.  Now, am I happy that the board is not done?
> > No, it bothers me greatly; nobody wants it done more than I.  (Well,
> > there is one other person... Boisy.  Do we feel good about what
> > changes we have made to make our free time more efficient? YES
> > INDEED... WE ARE VERY HAPPY.
> >
> > Last year at this time I was at the end of my rope, ready return the
> > down payments and pull the plug on Cloud-9. Boisy basically told me
> > we needed to either wrap this up or throw in the towel and do a mass
> > refund.  I was exhausted... but today I feel good about the company
> > and the state it is in.  Stock is up and orders are being filled in
> > an efficient manner. The road is CLEAR to develop the
> > SuperBoard.  Currently, I have 14 orders on the floor, and not a
> > problem with any of them.
> >
> > I will also admit that the SuperBoard is holding us back from doing
> > other things with the CoCo. There are so many projects that the entry
> > level research has been performed on.. items that the community wants
> > and needs. Don't ask me what they are, just trust me when I say most
> > of you will fall over to know what they are.
> >
> > Boisy hasn't been sitting on his laurels either.  Working with Tim
> > Lindner, they have added SuperBoard extensions to the MESS emulator
> > so that he can develop drivers on virtual hardware. This was
> > discussed at the fest this year as well. Now, this will take you only
> > so far and Boisy is currently waiting to debug his code on real
> hardware.
> >
> > So in short, is the SuperBoard not going to happen? I'll let you guys
> > (sorry Mary) and the CoCo community decide.  After being in business
> > for years and making every fest since our inception, I can promise
> > you that we aren't leaving, we aren't going anywhere, were aren't
> > selling our domain name and stock. We are committed to the CoCo, the
> > machine that made Boisy and I what we are today.
> >
> > As Boisy stated once: Now is truly the best time to own a CoCo.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mark
> > Cloud-9
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
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> > 4/4/2007 1:09 PM
> >
> >
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> >
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