[Coco] Re: OS-9 as Replacement for DECB

[farna at att.net]

1. Art Flexser already improved DECB/SECB -- it's called ADOS. SECB was layered over ECB and DECB for two reasons -- backwards compatibility and the licensing agreement with Microsoft. I wouldn't worry about MS now because of size of market and age of code, but re-write to extensively and you'll give up compatibility with CC3 software as well as older. For some that won't be a problem, but for most it will.

2. The main problem with OS-9 burned into a CC3 ROM and booting from such is one of the main reasons OS_9 is so powerful -- it's flexibility. It should be possible to burn a "standard" OS-9 boot file into the ROM that would look for a standard set of devices. Say all the stock CoCo hardware along with a single sided drive as drive 0 (shouldn't matter if it's 35 or 40 tracks) and drive 1, and double sided drive 3 (40 track?). OS-9 users are already cringing, but what does the most common DECB user have? They may not have more powerful hardware, and to catch most you'd need to go with the lowest common denominator (LCD). There's a work around here too! Have the ROM look for a boot file on the drive first, then boot from that if present. If not present, boot from the LCD file in ROM. That still won't make OS-9 that much easier to use. A good front-end program similar to Chris Dekker's "CoCoTop" is needed also. It uses much less processing power than Multi-Vue. MV is good for more experienced users, a simple file manipulation/launch program is all a beginner needs. OS-9 programmers would have to concentrate on ease of use and simplicity instead of feature rich programs, something they aren't accustomed to! You can always tell when the design engineeer writes the user manual... only he understands a program (or hardware) really in depth, and makes assumptions that a new user has no idea of!! I've had software and hardware like that before, nothing turns someon off a new thing that not understanding the manual, and having a 2" thick manual to begin with! A basic, non-graphic or semi-graphic front end would be a big help. CoCoTop was the best I'd ever seen -- mostly text menus with pop-up text boxes (windows) for menus. Just some simple line graphics and text -- fast and easy!!

3. The ROM socket isn't that big an issue. Destructively remove the original by cutting the legs as close to the chip body as possible. If you're good at de-soldering, remove the legs. If not, solder a socket onto the legs. There's room in the case above the board. Just make a disk copy of the ROM first so it can be burned and returned if necessary. For those who can't sodler or doesn't know someone who will do the work, offer a send in service. 

4. As far as burning the ROM -- sell the LCD/boot program AS a ROM!! Also send the disks with it so they can make their own boot to configure for their particular hardware. That can be done AFTER they have played with the LCD setup for a while. Send a replacement SECB ROM with it also. It should be safe to assume they have a CC3 and license to SECB since they are ordering the LCD OS-9 ROM -- have to have a CC3 to put it in! Rick Ulland had written a program to make creating a boot list/disk easier at one point -- right before NitrOS-9 became popular. It was part of the "tune-up" package he wrote. Man, the memories that are coming back!! Of course I would assume all this is being done using the 6809 version of NitrOS-9, not the Tandy version, and a 6309 version could be made as well. 

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent 
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
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 -------------- Original message ----------------------
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:31:10 -0700
> From: "Stephen H. Fischer" <SFischer1 at MindSpring.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Re: OS-9 as Replacement for DECB.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Please consider reading all that I have said about this project again before
> offering comments. I again feel that I am not communicating the main point.
> I am suggesting not that all the DECB users be moved to OS-9, but that OS-9
> be used to replace the DECB code with a solution that is running OS-9 but
> appears that nothing has changed to the DECB user.
> 
> Robert Gault wrote:
> > Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been thinking about this a little more.
> >>
> >> The first Target:
> >>
> >> A new ROM that is installed into a "normal CoCo 3" in place of the
> >> original.
> >
> > Possible but problematic as the Coco3 ROM is not socketed while the disk
> > cart ROM is. Removal of the Coco3 ROM and replacement with a socketed
> > EPROM is not a job for the untrained or timid user. Complete destruction
> > of the Coco3 is a likely outcome. Who is going to program your EPROM and
> > do the soldering?
> 
> This is at present a thought exercise so the use of Magic is allowed.
> 
> I will be invoking magic to defer some questions to get at the heart of the
> project. Some problems must be addressed at the proper time of course and
> some will disappear and others appear. Some of the assumptions and things
> that I apply magic to are to define the constraints of the discussion that I
> am trying to start.
> 
> I am looking for new thinking and suggestions that might make the project
> work. So much of the time the instant and overwhelming response to a new
> project is a list of items that will stop the project and a litany of bad
> comments. I have been holding back another tantrum on this subject for quite
> some time now.
> 
> ---------
> 
> As soon as I thought of this project I realized that it might be a non
> starter.
> 
> The potential users, DECB folks, have heard so much about OS-9 problems and
> there is an ongoing example of this right now. They may not be reading any
> message with "OS-9" in the subject and may have placed all the "OS-9" folk
> into their kill file with my name there for several reasons. They expect no
> help in their desire to improve DECB but they lack the talent to do it
> themselves. They may not realize this.
> 
> The people who could best do this project, the "OS-9" folk have long ago
> moved on from DECB and will assume that they will receive no benefits from
> this project so  they will not be interested.
> 
> I am not trying to slander any person or group and am talking in
> generalities so there will be many exceptions that void my comments. Just as
> Keven Darling and others moved on when they felt constrained by the CoCo 3
> environment, persons who felt constrained by DECB  moved on to OS-9 and the
> persons left who love DECB are happier with less power and capabilities and
> in many cases are not able to enlarge their CoCo world. They may have no
> idea what they are missing that is just a "DOS" command away.
> 
> I do see some preparation to start the DECB enhancement project and some
> stating of what might be desired.
> 
> I estimate this effort to be at least 2-3 times the effort needed doing it
> by using OS-9 and would accomplish minor enhancements to DECB and will
> require large efforts to add more in the future.
> 
> Using OS-9 will be a much lesser project with many times the benefits sooner
> and make additional improvements easy to do. Many doable by individuals that
> are less trained.
> 
> I would suggest that many of the persons who might best do this project not
> be involved so that their other very important efforts will not be delayed.
> 
> I believe that the numbers of people on the CoCo List are approaching 400 or
> 500. I have not seen the latest numbers. The number of people posting is a
> very small number, a good thing in that a few months ago the traffic was so
> high that I was having problems keeping up and had to just skim many
> messages.
> 
> The reasons that the silent members are reading these messages is unknown.
> >From the past I assume that most are DECB only users and those that love
> games. What we are discussing must be interesting to them or they would have
> left.
> 
> Attempts to take votes in the past have resulted in a very small numbers. If
> we could come up with a method that an anonymous vote could be taken with
> many more persons doing so, we might learn what their interests and
> capabilities are.
> 
> The number of silent members is large, perhaps their are persons that would
> be willing to help if my idea of using OS-9 results in a plan that has a
> good chance of success and will provide many benefits with less work.
>