[arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

[Christy Dena]

Good thoughts Brian. Thanks for sharing them here...I'll be citing them. :)

I just realised one confusion of meaning though. When I referred to
"roleplay" I meant *performing a (fantastical) character* (or there
abouts) not 'playing a role' as in *participating*. These are related,
but two different things. I'm working interstate and so don't have all
my files & books with me...so I'll have to leave making this pattern
clearer for another time. And yes, I'm very familiar with Boal. Good
taste. :)

But also, on your point about 'social status' being player- and
designer-facilitated. Indeed, this is one aspect of ARGs that I find
fascinating: seeing how certain elements occur in ARGs no matter what.
Compared to many traditional artistic practices, ARG designers (for a
variety of intended and unintended reasons) remove a lot of things,
but because of the highly collaborative nature of ARGs (among other
factors) players often put a lot of them back in. I find this
interesting. Does this mean that there are certain things that an
artwork has to have?...And if so, why?...

On 6/19/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

>

> "Are you saying that all the content in different languages was

> translations."

>

> Yup ... written in English, shipped to translators, published

> multi-lingually.

>

> "I'll have to look up a definition of 'roleplay' that fits this situation"

>

> I think the best ones are going to be in theater instead of gaming ... the

> origin is literally "to play a role". Interactive theater people sometimes

> use the word "spectactor" from Augusto Boal's work in Theatre of the

> Oppressed to describe that concept you're looking for:

>

> [It refers to the dual role of those involved in the process as both

> spectator and actor, as they both observe and create dramatic meaning and

> action in any performance.]

>

> "If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do

> ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players

> and the designers?"

>

> There are some basic tools we're all familiar with. The mother of all "play

> between players" might be speculation (which is the cousin of narrative

> foreshadowing), while meta-gaming happens between players and designers all

> the time (such as the "hidden reference"). Most of the time, if people are

> having fun, they'll start playing in addition to gaming (and as a developer

> you just have to leave structure open enough to encourage and celebrate

> that.)

>

> "But how do you see this [constructed play] fitting in with 'social

> interaction' patterns?"

>

> To some extent, but in many ways this happens first and foremost among the

> players. I can't count the number of times of players have worried and

> fretted about some collective action, and in the process come up with a

> scenario they might face better than one we've written ... switching to

> adapt to that idea is certainly an iterative design philosophy from the

> developer's end, but it doesn't constitute a true collaboration with the

> players (in the way, say, the Joker "take a photo with your friends" did.)

>

> >From an experience design perspective, the ARG as developed is like a piece

> of clothing lying on a table: it is only truly "as designed" once it is

> being worn. So from my perspective, that player-player constructive play is

> actually the most magical element, the part that builds from the real-time

> distributed communities that the Internet is capable of. We're just giving

> you something to wear.

>

> Social status ... so many questions, let me try a provocative response, a

> theorem designed to be picked apart because any general statement is always

> going to fail:

>

> There is no difference between developer-designed social status and

> player-designed social status, but the two can work together to reinforce

> each other. Developers are just another kind of "super player".

>

> For example, if we as developers generate a "meta story site" (think

> StolenA3.com) we'll end up summarizing the action that's taken place, mixing

> both characters and players together. Or, in other cases, if you don't

> publish that as a developer, players will band together and end up doing

> essentially the same thing ... which is what you're hinting at in your

> questions. Sometimes this can happen even in the meta-game space, where I

> throw off a horrible limerick on my BTS blog to link to the Unfiction

> impromptu Eldritch Limerick contest that arose in cultural remix of the

> Cloverfield haiku contest Rose started.

>

> I'll leave it others to dissect what happens when it gets as explicit as

> completion or points like some games have had as that looks like muddy

> ground to me (for example -- were the points in Perplex City part of the ARG

> or just part of the card game or kinda sorta a little of both?)

>

> Ambitious chart, Christy, but a good way to tackle some of the issues.

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On

> Behalf Of Christy Dena

> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:37 PM

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>

> Hey Brian,

>

> Welcome back! I was wondering how you were.

>

> Thanks for taking the time to contribute detailed thoughts. :)

>

> And yes, the table is currently data and opinion. It is just an early

> draft of quick thoughts, that I thought would develop better (and more

> accurately) with input from others. Currently, my observations are

> prompts, not conclusions.

>

> Urns

> Are you saying that all the content in different languages was

> translations. In other words, you didn't try and get players of

> different languages working together? Whether it succeeded is another

> issue, which I'll indicate. If so, I'll take Urns off.

>

> Roleplay

> Yes, 'roleplay' does need to be complicated further. I simply wanted

> to make the point that in ARGs, designers don't usually require

> players to pretend they are fantastical characters. There is play, of

> course, but players aren't Orcs, Draculas or Knights (as yet). But,

> this position needs to be tempered, as you intimate, with an

> acknowledgement of how players *go outside themselves* to some degree.

> Some players in Perplex City became short story writers, players in

> Heist become retrievers etc. I'll have to look up a definition of

> 'roleplay' that fits this situation...unless someone on this list has

> one handy...

>

> Play & Game

> Roleplay and play are related but not interchangeable concepts. But

> the difference between play and game (ludics) is an interesting point

> to raise in the context of social interaction patterns. Let's have a

> look at Roger Caillois's definition of paidia and ludus:

>

> "At one extreme an almost indivisible principle, common to diversion,

> turbulence, free improvisation, and carefree gaiety is dominant. It

> manifests a kind of uncontrolled fantasy that can be designated by the

> term paidia. At the opposite extreme [.] there is a growing tendency

> to bind it with arbitrary, imperative, and purposely tedious

> conventions [.] I call this second component ludus." (27)

>

> If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do

> ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players

> and the designers?...

>

> Constructed Play

> Oh yes, ARGs are co-creative and participatory. But how do you see

> this fitting in with 'social interaction' patterns? It seems that fits

> into player-designer interaction (which can be designer and player

> facilitated), as opposed to the designer-facilitated player-player

> interaction the chart currently concentrates on.

>

> Social Statuses

> I agree that social status is a part of communities, but there is

> player-facilitated social status and designer-facilitated social

> status. I'm interested to know the effects of designer-facilitated

> social status and whether it is necessary. What do players do to

> facilitate social status? Is there more player-facilitated social

> status when designers don't do any or little social-status activities?

> How do players react to designer-facilitated social status? How

> important is it to the game? How important is it social interaction?

>

> Yay! It's developing!

>

> Best,

> Christy

>

> On 6/19/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

>> Great work, Christy ... a few bits of data and opinion :)

>>

>> I'm not sure Urns counts as "challenges are issued in different languages,

>> facilitating players sharing translations in order to reach a subgoal and

>> keep the game progressing" like you say. The narrative was translated into

>> all of those languages to allow players in each of those countries to

>> participate in a global experience, but in reality English remained the

>> lingua franca of the meta-narrative and the player community. I guess one

>> could argue that it helped create a more internationalized player base.

>>

>> Conversely, Heist did use elements in foreign languages that were intended

>> to require the community recruiting a new native speaker (there are bits

> of

>> that in many ARGs though, as it is a puzzle type that requires

> recruitment.)

>>

>> I also take some issue with the way you defined roleplaying: I'd make the

>> argument that a very large percentage of ARG players are roleplaying in a

>> transformative way. Jane McGonigal described that well as a player of

> Heist:

>> she was trying on an alternate Jane McGonigal. Eldritch players who went

> to

>> West Virginia also found themselves "roleplaying themselves". There's as

>> much "play" in an ARG as there is "game".

>>

>> I'd also argue that many ARGs involve the element of "constructive play"

> --

>> the ARG is being written in collaboration between the creators and

>> participants. Player's just don't often glimpse how much is or isn't on

>> rails on the "other side of the curtain".

>>

>> "Social statuses" is also the key to how community functions: there are

>> always "more famous players" than others in the legacy of a finished game

>> (which is an innate comprehension of "social status" with a coarse

> mechanism

>> like a scoreboard.)

>>

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

>> Behalf Of John Evans

>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:14 AM

>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>>

>>>Hey everyone,

>>>

>>>The following is a resource I've been working on myself, but am thinking

>>>I'll add it in some way to the ARG Design section of ARGology. In it I

> draw

>>>on existing game design patterns for social interaction, and see how they

>>>apply to ARGs. The listing I have is just a quick draft.

>>>

>>>http://www.christydena.com/Primer/ARGDashboard_Interaction.html

>>>

>>>I'd love to hear you thoughts on examples to add, anything you don't agree

>>>with, and also how I should present the information. I don't find the

>> manner

>>>I have presented it at the moment user-friendly. Should I move it to the

>>>ARGology wiki for instance?

>>

>> That's awesome, Christy. It *does* seem like a good topic for the wiki, in

>> the sense that people who are experts in one game or another will be able

>> to talk about the activities involved in that particular game. I could

>> help out with moving it to the Wiki if you need some "grunt

> HTML/Wiki-code"

>> work done. ;)

>>

>> Though, I have to be honest, I look at that chart and I think "So how can

> I

>> create a game that fills in some of these empty categories?". Hmmm...

>>

>> --John Evans

>> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com

>>

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