[arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

[Brian Clark]

"Are you saying that all the content in different languages was
translations."

Yup ... written in English, shipped to translators, published
multi-lingually.

"I'll have to look up a definition of 'roleplay' that fits this situation"

I think the best ones are going to be in theater instead of gaming ... the
origin is literally "to play a role". Interactive theater people sometimes
use the word "spectactor" from Augusto Boal's work in Theatre of the
Oppressed to describe that concept you're looking for:

[It refers to the dual role of those involved in the process as both
spectator and actor, as they both observe and create dramatic meaning and
action in any performance.]

"If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do
ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players
and the designers?"

There are some basic tools we're all familiar with. The mother of all "play
between players" might be speculation (which is the cousin of narrative
foreshadowing), while meta-gaming happens between players and designers all
the time (such as the "hidden reference"). Most of the time, if people are
having fun, they'll start playing in addition to gaming (and as a developer
you just have to leave structure open enough to encourage and celebrate
that.) 

"But how do you see this [constructed play] fitting in with 'social
interaction' patterns?"

To some extent, but in many ways this happens first and foremost among the
players. I can't count the number of times of players have worried and
fretted about some collective action, and in the process come up with a
scenario they might face better than one we've written ... switching to
adapt to that idea is certainly an iterative design philosophy from the
developer's end, but it doesn't constitute a true collaboration with the
players (in the way, say, the Joker "take a photo with your friends" did.) 


>From an experience design perspective, the ARG as developed is like a piece

of clothing lying on a table: it is only truly "as designed" once it is
being worn. So from my perspective, that player-player constructive play is
actually the most magical element, the part that builds from the real-time
distributed communities that the Internet is capable of. We're just giving
you something to wear.

Social status ... so many questions, let me try a provocative response, a
theorem designed to be picked apart because any general statement is always
going to fail:

There is no difference between developer-designed social status and
player-designed social status, but the two can work together to reinforce
each other. Developers are just another kind of "super player".

For example, if we as developers generate a "meta story site" (think
StolenA3.com) we'll end up summarizing the action that's taken place, mixing
both characters and players together. Or, in other cases, if you don't
publish that as a developer, players will band together and end up doing
essentially the same thing ... which is what you're hinting at in your
questions. Sometimes this can happen even in the meta-game space, where I
throw off a horrible limerick on my BTS blog to link to the Unfiction
impromptu Eldritch Limerick contest that arose in cultural remix of the
Cloverfield haiku contest Rose started. 

I'll leave it others to dissect what happens when it gets as explicit as
completion or points like some games have had as that looks like muddy
ground to me (for example -- were the points in Perplex City part of the ARG
or just part of the card game or kinda sorta a little of both?) 

Ambitious chart, Christy, but a good way to tackle some of the issues.


-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Christy Dena
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:37 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

Hey Brian,

Welcome back! I was wondering how you were.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute detailed thoughts. :)

And yes, the table is currently data and opinion. It is just an early
draft of quick thoughts, that I thought would develop better (and more
accurately) with input from others. Currently, my observations are
prompts, not conclusions.

Urns
Are you saying that all the content in different languages was
translations. In other words, you didn't try and get players of
different languages working together? Whether it succeeded is another
issue, which I'll indicate. If so, I'll take Urns off.

Roleplay
Yes, 'roleplay' does need to be complicated further. I simply wanted
to make the point that in ARGs, designers don't usually require
players to pretend they are fantastical characters. There is play, of
course, but players aren't Orcs, Draculas or Knights (as yet). But,
this position needs to be tempered, as you intimate, with an
acknowledgement of how players *go outside themselves* to some degree.
Some players in Perplex City became short story writers, players in
Heist become retrievers etc. I'll have to look up a definition of
'roleplay' that fits this situation...unless someone on this list has
one handy...

Play & Game
Roleplay and play are related but not interchangeable concepts. But
the difference between play and game (ludics) is an interesting point
to raise in the context of social interaction patterns. Let's have a
look at Roger Caillois's definition of paidia and ludus:

"At one extreme an almost indivisible principle, common to diversion,
turbulence, free improvisation, and carefree gaiety is dominant. It
manifests a kind of uncontrolled fantasy that can be designated by the
term paidia. At the opposite extreme [.] there is a growing tendency
to bind it with arbitrary, imperative, and purposely tedious
conventions [.] I call this second component ludus." (27)

If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do
ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players
and the designers?...

Constructed Play
Oh yes, ARGs are co-creative and participatory. But how do you see
this fitting in with 'social interaction' patterns? It seems that fits
into player-designer interaction (which can be designer and player
facilitated), as opposed to the designer-facilitated player-player
interaction the chart currently concentrates on.

Social Statuses
I agree that social status is a part of communities, but there is
player-facilitated social status and designer-facilitated social
status. I'm interested to know the effects of designer-facilitated
social status and whether it is necessary. What do players do to
facilitate social status? Is there more player-facilitated social
status when designers don't do any or little social-status activities?
How do players react to designer-facilitated social status? How
important is it to the game? How important is it social interaction?

Yay! It's developing!

Best,
Christy

On 6/19/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

> Great work, Christy ... a few bits of data and opinion :)

>

> I'm not sure Urns counts as "challenges are issued in different languages,

> facilitating players sharing translations in order to reach a subgoal and

> keep the game progressing" like you say. The narrative was translated into

> all of those languages to allow players in each of those countries to

> participate in a global experience, but in reality English remained the

> lingua franca of the meta-narrative and the player community. I guess one

> could argue that it helped create a more internationalized player base.

>

> Conversely, Heist did use elements in foreign languages that were intended

> to require the community recruiting a new native speaker (there are bits

of

> that in many ARGs though, as it is a puzzle type that requires

recruitment.)

>

> I also take some issue with the way you defined roleplaying: I'd make the

> argument that a very large percentage of ARG players are roleplaying in a

> transformative way. Jane McGonigal described that well as a player of

Heist:

> she was trying on an alternate Jane McGonigal. Eldritch players who went

to

> West Virginia also found themselves "roleplaying themselves". There's as

> much "play" in an ARG as there is "game".

>

> I'd also argue that many ARGs involve the element of "constructive play"

--

> the ARG is being written in collaboration between the creators and

> participants. Player's just don't often glimpse how much is or isn't on

> rails on the "other side of the curtain".

>

> "Social statuses" is also the key to how community functions: there are

> always "more famous players" than others in the legacy of a finished game

> (which is an innate comprehension of "social status" with a coarse

mechanism

> like a scoreboard.)

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

On

> Behalf Of John Evans

> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:14 AM

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>

>>Hey everyone,

>>

>>The following is a resource I've been working on myself, but am thinking

>>I'll add it in some way to the ARG Design section of ARGology. In it I

draw

>>on existing game design patterns for social interaction, and see how they

>>apply to ARGs. The listing I have is just a quick draft.

>>

>>http://www.christydena.com/Primer/ARGDashboard_Interaction.html

>>

>>I'd love to hear you thoughts on examples to add, anything you don't agree

>>with, and also how I should present the information. I don't find the

> manner

>>I have presented it at the moment user-friendly. Should I move it to the

>>ARGology wiki for instance?

>

> That's awesome, Christy. It *does* seem like a good topic for the wiki, in

> the sense that people who are experts in one game or another will be able

> to talk about the activities involved in that particular game. I could

> help out with moving it to the Wiki if you need some "grunt

HTML/Wiki-code"

> work done. ;)

>

> Though, I have to be honest, I look at that chart and I think "So how can

I

> create a game that fills in some of these empty categories?". Hmmm...

>

> --John Evans

> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com

>

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