[arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction
Jason Chrest
jason at aporiacme.com
Tue Jan 8 23:47:29 EST 2008
One of the arguments I have heard throughout is where is the game without puzzles? To me a puzzle doesn't have to be something quite as obvious as a cipher of some sort or some hex coding we see all the time from smaller games. Successfull games should have some sort of puzzle in the story, something that naturally fits into the story and evolves with it.
I agree that they should not hinder from the process of the game, but for players there is a rewarding feeling when solving a puzzle. Video games are successful because they let the players have the individual sense of being the hero or heroine of the story being told. ARGs present a unique challenge because the typically have a community built to partake in the game. MMORPGs have similar communities in them and are quite successful, but you still get the feeling that you are a hero or can become one. With ARGs it is difficult to allow the plauers to have that personal experiance since the MMORPGs have various personal quests and those same quests would be compared to a live event in an ARG. We can't possibly have live events for everyone (guys like me in the middle of no where will often get left out). I don't know if this is a solveable problem for developers, but it's something we can definately try to work around.
Jason Chrest
Aporia Cross-Media Entertainment
www.aporiacme.com
jason at aporiacme.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Bushman <jaybushman at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:22:46
To:Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction
I've always thought of the puzzles as analogous to TV commercials -
albeit really neat, intriguing commercials. At the end of the day,
they're impediments to the story progression, and the crucial bit is
to make sure the audience/players care enough about the story to plow
through/solve/wait for someone else to figure out the solution so they
can get to that next little chewy bit of story goodness.
---------------------------------------------------------
The Loose-Fish Project: <http:www.loose-fish.com>
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On Jan 8, 2008, at 8:11 PM, Michael Monello wrote:
> Well, the puzzles have always been the least interesting aspect of
> ARGs for me, since so few of them are truly integrated within the
> narrative. I think it's much more interesting to have the audience
> guide characters down different paths rather than solve puzzles to
> unlock another piece of story, so I do think the kinds of challenges
> we put into our narratives needs to be rethought -- regardless of
> everything else we are discussing here.
>
> But given that the tiniest sliver of the audience actually solves
> ARG puzzles and the vast majority of people get the answers from
> that group, if your ARG is boring because the audience is getting
> those answers then you have problems that go way deeper than how the
> audience is organized!
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Ian Millington wrote:
>
>> ARG-puzzle solutions tend to be liberally shared. Because once a
>> puzzle falls the whole world (clan in your case) rushes through to
>> the
>> next state, what would stop the first team communicating the solution
>> to someone in the next team, and that second team then finding the
>> game boring? Most of team two wouldn't want to cheat - but the
>> communal nature of ARGs means that only one would have to.
>>
>> Having individual play trajectories seems to imply having individual
>> challenges. Which in turn suggests that the knowledge-based puzzles
>> that are the staple of ARGs would have to be minimized in favour of
>> skill-based challenges.
>>
>> Using TV metaphors another option would be the soap-opera - designed
>> to be very easy to drop into at any stage, with the corresponding
>> inability to build coherent dramatic story arcs.
>>
>> I dunno... even the clan idea feels a little too conservative to
>> me...
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>> On 08/01/2008, Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com> wrote:
>>> I haven't thought this all the way through, I'm just spitballing
>>> with
>>> the group here, but I don't think it has to add that much staff if
>>> the
>>> game is structured from the ground up with this in mind. Everyone
>>> would be playing the game in real time, it's just that the community
>>> would be split into smaller groups, or clans, to allow for a wider
>>> variety of community cultures. Think of it in terms of Everquest --
>>> it's a big world and you can see what other clans are doing, but you
>>> are playing in your own group or clan with your own clan culture.
>>>
>>> You are aware of the other groups, especially when it comes to
>>> character interaction and live events, but you are really working
>>> closely in smaller clans which are not in competition with each
>>> other.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Michael Monello
>>> Partner, Campfire
>>> 62 White Street, 3W
>>> New York, NY 10013
>>> 212-612-9600
>>> http://www.campfirenyc.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2008, at 5:52 PM, libfli at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> i really like this idea. my only concern would be dealing with
>>>> having enough manpower needed to run the game. if it's staggered
>>>> like this and the ARG has an interactive storyline, depending on
>>>> how
>>>> many "groups" you have involved, you would have to staff each
>>>> group's game. and, depending on the choices of each group, i'm not
>>>> certain each group would end up in the same place. (but that might
>>>> make it even more interesting) :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> happy happy new year!
>>>>
>>>> Jan Libby
>>>>
>>>> (labfly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>>>> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:13 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps there is a more organic way to do this. I'm thinking about
>>>> how time zones naturally divide up the television audience, yet by
>>>> the end of the day all the zones are caught up and everyone can
>>>> chat
>>>> about the most recent episode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words, you launch an ARG and the audience is divided up by
>>>> when they join in, yet you don't have to necessarily start at
>>>> episode 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A simple example: the first week, everyone who joins becomes "Group
>>>> A."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Week 2 starts a new episode, and Group A plays through it, but
>>>> everyone who joins in on it in week 2 becomes Group B. Group B has
>>>> all the community tools of group A, but they are not mixed in with
>>>> Group A in the game forums or the collaborative puzzles, which
>>>> forces that group to organically form it's own culture for the
>>>> game,
>>>> independent of the culture developed by the more established
>>>> Group A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Each week, a new group. At the end of an episode, all the groups
>>>> can
>>>> discuss, because they are all at the same place in the story, but
>>>> those in the newest groups don't have to contend with the experts
>>>> who have been playing for a month when it comes to the actual game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The groupings have to be completely organic and mostly behind the
>>>> scenes, as ultimately everyone is essentially playing "live", which
>>>> also allows you to have the events and non-repeatable elements that
>>>> are so important to these games.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allowing new groups of players to form their own cultures would
>>>> eliminate many of the issues that ARG's face after launch, in my
>>>> opinion. It's not joining a narrative in progress that is difficult
>>>> -- TV viewers do that all the time and bringing people up to speed
>>>> on a narrative is easy -- it's trying to join a well-established
>>>> and
>>>> dense community that is steeped in historical experience that
>>>> overwhelms and intimidates new people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Monello
>>>>
>>>> Partner, Campfire
>>>>
>>>> 62 White Street, 3W
>>>>
>>>> New York, NY 10013
>>>>
>>>> 212-612-9600
>>>>
>>>> http://www.campfirenyc.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:31 PM, John Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nice analogy, Ian. And another pillar to support my argument that
>>>>
>>>>> finite automata should be taught in high school. ;)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO any solution would have to put people in their own rooms,
>>>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>>> their own challenges and individual agency, while keeping the
>>>>>> overall
>>>>
>>>>>> collaborative feeling of the ARG. As Michael wrote, that is a
>>>>>> radical
>>>>
>>>>>> restructure of the mechanism of the ARG.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So you'd need some "rooms" that everyone had to go through on
>>>>> their
>>>>
>>>>> own. However, one of the great strengths of ARGs is the
>>>>> multiplayer/
>>>>
>>>>> collaboration aspect, so you'd also need "rooms" within which
>>>>> everyone
>>>>
>>>>> could congregate. Except that they're not really rooms, they're
>>>>
>>>>> "events" or "states".
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it isn't a coincidence that interactive fiction is also a
>>>>>> genre
>>>>
>>>>>> that has almost no direct monetization. But then again, that
>>>>>> probably
>>>>
>>>>>> pushes the analogy too far.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, IF used to be monetized. I remember owning Wishbringer for
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> C128. Eventually it became "adventure games"...The point seems
>>>>> to be
>>>>
>>>>> that you can sell interactive fiction as long as it has game-style
>>>>
>>>>> graphics. I guess?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=package&SubId=539&cc=US
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There's an interesting idea. What if an ARG had graphics the
>>>>> equal of
>>>>
>>>>> a "standard" computer game, but was organized like an ARG?...I
>>>>> guess
>>>>
>>>>> it would be Uru Live, I answered my own question.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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