[Mastering-perl] RE: Mastering-perl Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2

Tue Oct 3 17:04:24 EDT 2006

Hi,

I also agree that the format of Head First is not useful in long term, they
are good to get you an introduction or brainstorm into a topic, but fail on
the "reference" like use you make of a book...

Regards,

Florian

2006/10/3, Messmer, Jason <Jason.Messmer at xerox.com>:
>
> I have to say I agree with Brian...Having a Head First 'blah' is really
> good for beginners but would not
> be useful for advance users.  To me, and I read a couple Head First
> books, a Head First book is like going
> to kindergarten, your saying your abc's, a is for apple,...,p if for
> perl.  Once you understand the subject
> of a Head First book, it is no longer useful, you know it and you move
> on to the next grade level.  To me
> there not a good reference book...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mastering-perl-bounces at theperlreview.com
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> mastering-perl-request at theperlreview.com
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> To: mastering-perl at theperlreview.com
> Subject: Mastering-perl Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: master perl chapter layout (brian d foy)
>    2. Re: master perl chapter layout (Derek B. Smith)
>    3. Re: master perl chapter layout (brian d foy)
>    4. [PATCH] Typos' Corrections (Shlomi Fish)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:49:42 -0500
> From: "brian d foy" <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mastering-perl] master perl chapter layout
> To: mastering-perl at theperlreview.com
> Message-ID:
>         <2715accf0610021249y32425ab9n1c0f6ce5a147de96 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 10/2/06, Derek B. Smith <derekbellnersmith at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I am reading a book called Head First Java b/c I want
> > to learn Java as Java and Perl are a good mix of
> > technologies to know.  In this book there are many
> > small snippets of code that are short and sweet,
> > questions and spaces for me to write down what I think
> > is the right answer then at then end of the chapter
> > are the correct answers explained...
>
> > Do you plan on have sections where the reader can
> > answer and write down answers to questions within each
> > chapter? Do you plan on having some of the examples I
> > listed above?
>
> I've been asked by O'Reilly about writing a "Head First" book for
> Perl, but Mastering Perl is going to be a traditional Nutshell book
> with the same format and style as the other O'Reilly Perl books.
>
> I think the "Head First" stuff might work well for introductions to
> topics, but the format would seem overly burdensome for advanced
> material. You'll notice that all of the Head First books are large,
> but that's not because of the amount of information. Having seen only
> a couple of the books, I've been disappointed at how much information
> they are able to convey due to the limitations of the format. Indeed,
> I've been disappointed at the focus on format over good information.
>
> The "Head First" series is basically publishing on the cheap. The art
> is freely available clip-art, and the author does the layout and so
> on, handing in a ready-to-publish book. This is similar to what WROX
> and some other extinct publisher have done. One of the reasons I write
> for O'Reilly is that they have a great set of editors. The real
> strength of a publisher is the ability of editors to judge and give
> feedback on content. The fine folks at O'Reilly aren't going to let us
> say grossly incorrect in a Nutshell book. "Head First" books don't get
> the same sort of support, and I think its apparent in the quality of
> its content.
>
> Kathy Sierra, who came up with the format, says that people certainly
> like it a lot, but I haven't ever heard anything about whether people
> learn better (or even as much) from the books. It seems to me that it
> would be okay to read it the first time, but looking up something
> would be particular frustrating when you want to verify something
> rather than play along in a graphic novel. I'm sure that people do
> like the experience better, but I've also found that what people like
> isn't always the best thing for them.
>
> --
> brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> http://www.pair.com/~comdog/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Derek B. Smith" <derekbellnersmith at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mastering-perl] master perl chapter layout
> To: mastering-perl at theperlreview.com
> Message-ID: <20061002195626.87296.qmail at web42404.mail.scd.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
> --- brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 10/2/06, Derek B. Smith
> > <derekbellnersmith at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am reading a book called Head First Java b/c I
> > want
> > > to learn Java as Java and Perl are a good mix of
> > > technologies to know.  In this book there are many
> > > small snippets of code that are short and sweet,
> > > questions and spaces for me to write down what I
> > think
> > > is the right answer then at then end of the
> > chapter
> > > are the correct answers explained...
> >
> > > Do you plan on have sections where the reader can
> > > answer and write down answers to questions within
> > each
> > > chapter? Do you plan on having some of the
> > examples I
> > > listed above?
> >
> > I've been asked by O'Reilly about writing a "Head
> > First" book for
> > Perl, but Mastering Perl is going to be a
> > traditional Nutshell book
> > with the same format and style as the other O'Reilly
> > Perl books.
> >
> > I think the "Head First" stuff might work well for
> > introductions to
> > topics, but the format would seem overly burdensome
> > for advanced
> > material. You'll notice that all of the Head First
> > books are large,
> > but that's not because of the amount of information.
> > Having seen only
> > a couple of the books, I've been disappointed at how
> > much information
> > they are able to convey due to the limitations of
> > the format. Indeed,
> > I've been disappointed at the focus on format over
> > good information.
> >
> > The "Head First" series is basically publishing on
> > the cheap. The art
> > is freely available clip-art, and the author does
> > the layout and so
> > on, handing in a ready-to-publish book. This is
> > similar to what WROX
> > and some other extinct publisher have done. One of
> > the reasons I write
> > for O'Reilly is that they have a great set of
> > editors. The real
> > strength of a publisher is the ability of editors to
> > judge and give
> > feedback on content. The fine folks at O'Reilly
> > aren't going to let us
> > say grossly incorrect in a Nutshell book. "Head
> > First" books don't get
> > the same sort of support, and I think its apparent
> > in the quality of
> > its content.
> >
> > Kathy Sierra, who came up with the format, says that
> > people certainly
> > like it a lot, but I haven't ever heard anything
> > about whether people
> > learn better (or even as much) from the books. It
> > seems to me that it
> > would be okay to read it the first time, but looking
> > up something
> > would be particular frustrating when you want to
> > verify something
> > rather than play along in a graphic novel. I'm sure
> > that people do
> > like the experience better, but I've also found that
> > what people like
> > isn't always the best thing for them.
> >
>
>
> Thanks for your thoughts, but you did not answer my
> question. :)  Will you include a question/answer
> section?
> Yes good point on the verification of a fact...the
> Head First series I could see would not be exact.
>
> Funy thought b/c this book Head First Java is
> published by Oreilly??? : )
>
>
> Head First Java, 2nd Edition Kathy Sierra, et al
> O'Reilly Media, Published 2005, 2nd edition, ISBN
> 0596009208
>
> Customer Reviews:
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:05:56 -0500
> From: "brian d foy" <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mastering-perl] master perl chapter layout
> To: mastering-perl at theperlreview.com
> Message-ID:
>         <2715accf0610021305y3d1d7ce6kacf086f957310736 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 10/2/06, Derek B. Smith <derekbellnersmith at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Thanks for your thoughts, but you did not answer my
> > question. :)  Will you include a question/answer
> > section?
>
> As I said, this is a traditional Nutshell format, which doesn't have a
> question and answer section.
>
> > Funy thought b/c this book Head First Java is
> > published by Oreilly??? : )
>
> The Head First series is a different imprint, but I was imprecise in
> my language. O'Reilly Media has branched out quite a bit and has many
> different formats and series now. Having been around for awhile, I
> still say "O'Reilly" to refer to the Nutshell books that are the core
> of their business. :)
>
> --
> brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> http://www.pair.com/~comdog/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:19:54 +0200
> From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at iglu.org.il>
> Subject: [Mastering-perl] [PATCH] Typos' Corrections
> To: mastering-perl at theperlreview.com
> Message-ID: <200610031519.55102.shlomif at iglu.org.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all!
>
> Attached is a patch to correct some typos in the trunk.
>
> Regards,
>
>         Shlomi Fish
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
> Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> Chuck Norris wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation in a day but then
> destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his
> secrets.
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