[LSC] Long filenames in the official library

[Travis Cobbs]

How about we put it up now?  That's my vote.  I assume that all we have to
do is post a link to article 480, right?

--Travis

On 8/19/07, William Howard <william at howard-family.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:

>

>  Changes/Suggestions incorporated into draft at

> http://www.ldraw.org/Article408.html

>

> I feel we're getting close!

>

> I have a hectic end-of-week this week as I'm on holiday next week, so

> don't be surprised if I vanish from Wednesday for 10 days or so.

>

> However, I would really like to be able to open this draft up for

> community comments when I get back in the first week of Sept.

>

> William

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* William Howard <william at howard-family.fsworld.co.uk>

> *To:* LDraw Standards Committee <lsc at ldraw.org>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:16 PM

> *Subject:* Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

>

> I made the changes in my other email this morning, but the emails didn't

> get sent until much later

>

> I'll take a look at what I've now got and what you say below and try and

> resolve the text

>

> W

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* Travis Cobbs <tcobbs at gmail.com>

> *To:* LDraw Standards Committee <lsc at ldraw.org>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:11 PM

> *Subject:* Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

>

> Rereading what I wrote, I see that there's a typo.  There should be an

> "in" before LDRAW\PARTS.  Also, we should perhaps modify it to change

> "spaces" to "spaces or tabs".

>

> Regarding the # character, I don't think we should disallow those.  They

> won't be allowed in official files, and there are other characters that

> generally can't be used in URLs (although web browsers will probably

> automatically fix them if they're typed into the location field).  We could

> mention that care should be taken with the filename if there are any plans

> to post the file on a web site, but I don't personally think we should even

> do that.  To me, it doesn't make sense that HTTP considerations should be

> present in the LDraw file format spec.

>

> --Travis

>

> On 8/14/07, William Howard <william at howard-family.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:

> >

> >  Just bringing this back into the light of day

> >

> > I'll add the suggestions below into the draft spec  (bearing in mind

> > Chris' objection to # as it causes problems in urls)

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > *From:* Travis Cobbs <tcobbs at gmail.com>

> > *To:* LDraw Standards Committee <lsc at ldraw.org>

> >  *Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:46 PM

> > *Subject:* Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

> >

> > OK, I'm going to put the proposal here for comments, and then after

> > things have settled, I'll call a vote.

> >

> > Begin Proposal

> >

> > Update "LDraw.org File Format Version 1.0.0" (draft), found here:

> > http://www.ldraw.org/Article218.html

> >

> > In the Line Type 1 section, change the <file> paragraph to read as

> > follows:

> >

> > <file> is the filename of the file referenced. Files can be located

> > LDRAW\PARTS, LDRAW\P, LDRAW\MODELS, the current file's directory, or a path

> > may be specified. There is no limit on how far these files can be nested.

> > <file> should not contain any spaces.

> >

> >

> > Create a new specification document, to be filed in the "LDraw.orgOfficial Library Standards" section of the

> > ldraw.org specifications page ( http://www.ldraw.org/Article292.html).

> > The title of the document will be "Special Requirements for Official Library

> > Files", and will contain the following text:

> >

> > The official library header (found at

> > http://www.ldraw.org/Article398.html) must appear at the top of the

> > file.

> >

> > The <file> portion of Type 1 lines will be made up of an optional path,

> > followed by a filename.  The filename may not be any more than 25 characters

> > long (including the .dat extension) and may only contain the following

> > characters: a-z, A-Z, 0-9, _, and -, followed by ".dat".  If there is a path

> > preceding the filename, it must be one of the following:

> > s\

> > 48\

> >

> > End Proposal

> >

> >

> > I included the change to the 1.0 draft because even though it's still in

> > draft, it doesn't seem right to have it more restrictive than what is

> > allowed in official library files.  Since it is still in draft, we don't

> > necessarily have to agree that what I put is good for the long haul, just

> > that making the above change to the draft document is acceptable.

> >

> > As a future action, we should really consider officially ratifying the

> > 1.0.0 file format spec.  It was created in September of 2003; I think

> > it's about time it became official.

> >

> > I used 25 characters as a maximum filename length arbitrarily.  I'm

> > certainly open to increasing it, but I do feel that we should specify some

> > maximum, and I don't think it should be less than 25.

> >

> > It occurs to me that we should probably disallow upper case letters in

> > official files.  I included them in the above proposal, but can anyone

> > provide a reason why mixed case official library filenames would be

> > advantageous?  On that note, forcing them to be all lower case in the

> > library files and arranging to that the official library distribution uses

> > all lower case allows easier (and faster) implementations on operating

> > systems with case-sensitive filenames.  I know that LDView in Linux takes

> > MUCH longer to load models if the part library is stored in all upper case

> > letters on a case-sensitive file system, since LDView tries all lower case

> > first, then does a glob search.

> >

> > The new document should probably have more meat.  I'm pretty sure that

> > there are other restrictions placed on library files.  It would be nice to

> > have those all documented in one place.  However, for the purposes of this

> > proposal, what's there should be OK.

> >

> >

> > --Travis

> >

> > On 5/13/07, Chris Dee <chris_w_dee at hotmail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > > I also accept, although I will need to think carefully about the

> > > impact on

> > > the official part naming standards.

> > >

> > > On the character set - I would veto the use of '#', due to the

> > > problems of

> > > needing to deal with that within a URL. That's why we renamed the

> > > box3#8p

> > > primitive. [A-Z],[a-z],[0-9], _ and - are OK with me.

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: lsc-bounces at ldraw.org [mailto: lsc-bounces at ldraw.org] On

> > > Behalf Of

> > > > Tore Eriksson

> > > > Sent: 13 May 2007 22:11

> > > > To: LDraw Standards Committee

> > > > Subject: Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

> > > >

> > > > I think it will cause some problems, but not insurmountable. As I,

> > > the

> > > > most Conservative and stubborn no-to-all-changes voter, now approve

> > > to

> > > > this change, I guess all resistance has been overcome.

> > > >

> > > > /Tore

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > From: "Lars C. Hassing" <lars at hassings.dk>

> > > > To: "LDraw Standards Committee" <lsc at ldraw.org>

> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 12:41 AM

> > > > Subject: Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I'm fine with long filenames.

> > > > > /Lars

> > > > >

> > > > > Travis Cobbs skrev:

> > > > > > I'm going to try to revive this discussion.  At this point, I'm

> > > > > > personally in favor of allowing long filenames, as long as we

> > > strictly

> > > > > > control the character set that's allowed in them (probably

> > > > > > alphanumeric, plus underscore and dash, and maybe #).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's no sense spending the time coming up with a new policy

> > > if long

> > > > > > filenames are going to be voted down completely, so I'd like

> > > everyone

> > > > > > to vote yes or no on whether you're open to allowing long

> > > filenames.

> > > > > > My vote is yes.  Note that this vote just determines if we

> > > continue on

> > > > > > to draft an official spec for allowed filenames.  Until (if) we

> > > agree

> > > > > > on that, nothing happens.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Travis

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 4/4/07, *ldraw at holly-wood.it <mailto: ldraw at holly-wood.it >*

> > > > > > <ldraw at holly-wood.it <mailto:ldraw at holly-wood.it> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >     guys,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >     I just wanna make sure you bring this to a happy or sad

> > > > > >     ending.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >     w.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >     ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > >     Da : "Travis Cobbs" <tcobbs at gmail.com <mailto:tcobbs at gmail.com

> > > >>

> > > > > >     A : "LDraw Standards Committee" < lsc at ldraw.org

> > > > > >     <mailto:lsc at ldraw.org >>

> > > > > >     Oggetto : Re: [LSC] Long filenames in the official library

> > > > > >     Data : Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:59:54 -0700

> > > > > >

> > > > > >     > Kevin clarified that LPub/LSynth should only have problems

> > >

> > > > > >     > with long filenames that contain spaces.  We definitely

> > > > > >     > don't want to allow that in the library, so at this point

> > > > > >     > I'd say that perhaps the best bet would be to somehow get

> > > > > >     > an idea of which programs would have problems with long

> > > > > >     > filenames.

> > > > > >     >

> > > > > >     > --Travis

> > > > > >     >

> > > > > >     > On 3/28/07, Travis Cobbs < tcobbs at gmail.com

> > > > > >     <mailto:tcobbs at gmail.com>> wrote:

> > > > > >     > >

> > > > > >     > > Please read this thread on LUGNET if you have not

> > > > > >     > already done so: >

> > > > > >     > > http://news.lugnet.com/cad/?n=14492

> > > > > >     > >

> > > > > >     > > I think we should discuss whether or not to allow long

> > > > > >     > > filenames in files in the official library.  At this

> > > > > >     > > point in time, I'm personally leaning toward maintaining

> > > > > >     > > the 8.3 limitation, based mostly on Kevin's comment that

> > >

> > > > > >     > supporting long filenames would require updates to

> > > > > >     > > LPub/LSynth.  Not so much that he has to update them,

> > > > > >     > > but that his need to update them could very well

> > > > > >     > indicate the same need in many other LDraw-compatible

> > > > > >     > > programs. Frankly, I'm surprised that they would need to

> > > > > >     > be updated. >

> > > > > >     > > Unfortunately, I think that empirical testing of

> > > > > >     > > existing programs is the only way we're going to be able

> > > > > >     > > to have a good idea about current levels of support.  I

> > > > > >     > for one don't relish doing those tests.  We can ask for

> > > > > >     > > program authors to chime in with a yea or nay on LUGNET,

> > > > > >     > > but I'll be surprised if get get a representative

> > > > > >     > response. >

> > > > > >     > > --Travis

> > > > > >     > >

> > > > > >     > >

> > > > > >     >

> > > > > >     >

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