[Coco] VCC Update

Thu Apr 13 17:16:25 EDT 2017

All really good ideas and from those with more knowledge than myself.
All I can say is start a clone, make some changes and we'll see what works... Anything benificial will be added to the current. A good place to start is to look over the "Issues" page on the VCC github site and see what's been suggested already.

As a note, I do have a version of VCC sources where all the code was being separated from the GUI (as James suggested) in prepreation for conversion, but was never finished (and the programmer never merged it to github). If there's enough interest, I'll upload it to a new branch. It may be more suitable for conversion.

The current "Master" branch has a none working "becker.dll" and if that could be fixed, it would be the best base for doing "enhancements" to the current Windows build. It already has dual HDs, remembers each "last accessed" folder for each function (roms, cas, DLLs, etc), and several other fixes.

As I said, if your enhancements work, I'll merge them and make a new version. I have no problem with that.

And Steve, I don't think anyone's pissing here, LMAO, just bouncing ideas, and maybe a few opinions. But this is needed if this project ever gets going again. Being a VCC user since Joseph started the project, I would love to see VCC grow to be THE Coco 3 emulator to use.

Bill Pierce
"Charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down!" - Ian Anderson - Jethro Tull

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-----Original Message-----
From: Salvador Garcia via Coco <coco at maltedmedia.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Cc: Salvador Garcia <salvadorgarciav at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 13, 2017 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Coco] VCC Update

"in a civil and respectful way"You take all the fun out if it! ;-)Just so I understand, if I want to join the talk, do I need both Skype and YouTube? Or either one?Can you explain it to me as if I didn't know Extended BASIC? ;-)Salvador      From: Steve Strowbridge <ogsteviestrow at gmail.com> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>  Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] VCC Update   I'm also thinking this may be a great topic to bring up this Saturday,April 15th on CoCoTALK! which will air live at 3:00 PM EST athttp://live.ogsteviestrow.com  if anyone wants to join to live skype call,or join the live chat, hit me up, love to have you, and love to discussthis in a civil and respectful way :)Steve Strowbridge, akaThe Original Gamer Stevie Strowhttp://ogsteviestrow.comogsteviestrow@gmail.comOn Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Steve Strowbridge <ogsteviestrow at gmail.com>wrote:> I don't pretend to know what it's like to work on these or> update/migrate/port them in the slightest, and I hope I have not offended> Bill or anyone else, and I didn't even mean to imply that pissing contests> were based around VCC in particular, but I have seen a lot of people with a> lot of varying opinions and favoritism towards one platform or the other> over the past few years, I am just merely throwing out that there, that> since there are some platforms that already exist and are already multi OS> compliant, why not integrate some of these rather than reinventing the> wheel.>> Also, regarding "competition" I agree that everyone should have the right> and freedom to create a product they so chose, and nobody is making any> money by doing any of this, so I'm not sure "competition" is the best word,> but "freedom", "variety", "options" all seem more appropriate, but again,> and these are just my opinions, sometimes the amount of variety can serve> to alienate a percentage of the population.>> Since none of these 3 options is a completely perfect,  or super easy> solution, and different camps are going to defend/stick with the choice> they made/support, those people are going to be somewhat "stuck" with> certain options/features or lack thereof.>> Since efforts are being made, and applaud them all, again, just my> opinion, I don't know all the facts, logistics, reasons, potential> pitfalls, etc., for not doing so, but I think if more "cooperation" was> applied than the "competition", the resulting product would be something> everyone could benefit from in the long haul.>> That's my 6809 cents.>>>> Steve Strowbridge, aka> The Original Gamer Stevie Strow> http://ogsteviestrow.com> ogsteviestrow at gmail.com>>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:42 PM, James Ross <jrosslist at outlook.com> wrote:>>> Bill Pierce wrote:>> > James, keep me updated on this. It sounds like you're moving in>> > the right direction.>>>> Will do Bill!  Thanks.>>>> > Though the original idea was to drop directx and move to QT or>> > something similar that's cross-compilable.>>>> Yes, that would be ideal! But ...>>>> First, please understand this in NOT a “pissing contest” as Stevie put>> it.  I know sometimes (or a lot of times) putting thoughts and expressions>> in writing can come across has harsh, when the intent was really not to be.>>>> I would love to see VCC ported to work on all the major platforms, like>> MAME & XRoar already do.>>>> How to do that, is a different story. To take the existing code and>> somehow shoe-horn that into Qt code using OpenGL – might be possible, but>> man … extremely difficult. I applaud the effort, but I believe the>> possibility of success is extremely low on that approach. They are two>> completely different “beasts” to tame.>> To do that, (again, this is just my opinion, duck and cover) it is a>> complete re-write.>>>> I am talking starting over from scratch.>>>> Now, what a person can do is use the existing VCC code as a road-map.>> Base a lot of the logic of the VCC engine for the CPU and peripherals. You>> could say start w/ the VCC code in one folder and the new from-scratch Qt>> code in another folder. And as you re-implement sections of the code/logic>> then you delete that code from the VCC folder.>>>> BUT it is NOT just a cut-and-paste proposition.  Each section will have>> to be re-done, re-engineered.  The VCC code was NOT done in a manner of>> separation of concerns like your model/view MVC concept. All the logic>> there is intertwined w/ the GUI stuff and the DirectDraw stuff.>>>> So the question is, how big of an effort for a ground up re-write using>> Qt/OpenGL?>>>> It is BIG (at least in my opinion it’s huge). UNLESS, you’ve done this>> kind of thing before. And are young and fast. But if you’re like me, in>> addition to the re-engineering / re-construction of the VCC code you have>> the learning curve of Qt/OpenGL to boot.  For me to do this – I’d be>> looking at 500 hours -- bare minimum on a project like that. Possibly>> closer to 1000 hours. AND then after ALL that – you will still be in C/C++>> land. A land that is still full of pitfalls. Even after just a few days>> working w/ the VCC I’m thinking, oh, yeah, that’s why I don’t do anything>> in C/C++ now, or have for many years. C/C++ is not the go-to language for>> new development these days.>>>> My thinking is this: if you want to modernize – dump C/C++ altogether. Do>> the re-write in C# or Java (I would be cool w/ either, but prefer C#)>> These days, C#/Java are perfectly adequate for speed -- even comparable to>> C/C++ to a certain degree. But forget keeping compatibility older versions>> of Windows! (which in this scenario, would be OK)>>>> C#/Gtk#/OpenGL --> OpenTK / SharpGL or figure out which OpenGL C# binding>> is most popular and maintained – also I believe there are some C#>> multiplatform game-kits that call on the best available graphics engine>> behind the scene (SDL on Linux/DirectX on Windows etc. could be looked.>>>> Same thing would go for Java. Might have even more options w/ Java>> including might be possible to use JavaFX to do the whole thing.>>>> That would be my 2c for a complete a re-write (which to summarize, in my>> belief, is the only way that a multi-platform VCC’ish – i.e. based of the>> VCC code -- gets done)>>>> James>>>>>> -->> Coco mailing list>> Coco at maltedmedia.com>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco>>>>-- Coco mailing listCoco at maltedmedia.comhttps://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco   -- Coco mailing listCoco at maltedmedia.comhttps://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco