[Coco] Ownership of NitOS-9

Thu Nov 6 08:59:30 EST 2014

On Wednesday 05 November 2014 23:59:02 nickma2 at optusnet.com.au did opine
And Gene did reply:
> I agree with what you say. Everyone's machine is different. That's why
> OS-9 needs an easy to use way for each user to create a system that
> suits their hardware setup.
> 
> Something anyone can use comfortably without needing to be a seasoned
> OS-9 veteran.
> 
> Can you see what I'm saying?
> 
> If a newbie struggles to even be able to setup his OS, what impression
> does that leave after hours of frustration?
> 
> If that newbie could simply run OSCONFIG (or whatever) and be
> presented with some menu system where he picks his hardware components
> and it does all the work of fetching the drivers from a repository on
> another disk, leaving him with a finished OS at the end, wouldn't he
> walk away feeling impressed with the system? That's the true power of
> an OS, it being able to act intelligently on your behalf and allowing
> the user to "get on with the job".
> 
> Because there is so much diversity in hardware, all the more reason
> for the need for this sort of "polish".
> 
> Nick

I think that is a great idea.  But there is one showstopper problem.

Exactly none of the I/O devices we have today, is capable of being 
interrogated on the hardware level, and returning an $Id string.

So you are still stuck with asking the user to identify his hardware and 
its configuration.  For those who have had their stuff for yonks, likely 
no problem, we know what we have.  But for the new bee, whats an MPI, or 
whats a 1Gb hard drive, scsi or ide?  Addressed as CHS, or LBA?

I think you can see where I'm going.  You are going to wind up building 
the list on non-volatile media, and chain linking the various bits and 
pieces because its going to be a rather lengthy program when done.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Pierce" <ooogalapasooo at aol.com> "CoCoList for Color
> Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> To:<coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Cc:
> Sent:Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:21:14 -0500
> Subject:Re: [Coco] Ownership of NitOS-9
> 
>  Nick... what you have to realize and remember about Nitros9... is
> that my system is NOT like yours, and yours is NOT like Gene's and
> Gene's is NOT like Robert's....
>  I doubt any given system by any two people one this list are the
> same. There's different drivers for different hardware, and different
> hardware for different needs.
>  To say something is wrong with Nitros9 because you were trying to use
> the wrong access method is the very reason OS9 got a bad name in the
> beginning. In the past 30 years of working in OS9, I have found that
> 99.99% of the complaints I've seen/heard/solved were user's mistakes.
>  There is no way in a distribution of a product like Nitros9 that you
> can anticipate the user's hardware and build "one system" that will
> work for everybody... your SDC boot would crash badly on my Dw4 or B&B
> systems.
>  That has been the boon of OS9 from the beginning... not a lack of
> proper drivers.... but a lack of "standard" hardware. Nitros9 as it
> stands today, with someone with the knowledge to set their system up
> correctly, is the most stable build of OS9 i've ever run.... BAR NONE.

The only problem I have with uptime are related to power failures, AND the 
interlocking of DW (and indeed a serial port access using minicom on this 
box, a serial cable to a deluxe 232 pak in the mpi.  Sure, I can open a 
terminal session on /t2 from here, provided I do it, or the minicom is 
actually sitting here waiting to hear from the coco,  But if I reboot the 
coco, and minicom and dw are not running here, the coco runs from its 
keyboard just fine, but dw's server cannot be started, nor can the minicom 
session be brought up 20 minutes later, both have timed out.

DW also does not clean up its lock files here, so a DW restart without 
rebooting this machine is not possible as /var/lock/name of device is not 
removed on stopping the server, and its not volatile, so now my startup 
script tries to nuke it, works about 1/2 the time.

> Polish??? Personally, I think it's damned shiney already...
>  First... know your hardware... research the drivers for that
> harware... they're all in the repo... then set up a system using the
> proper drivers for YOUR system. That is really the hardest step in
> OS9... getting the boot right for your system.
>  The SDC (from what I understand) was meant to replace the floppy
> disk... and maybe even the hard drive. I've no real knowledge of how
> it works until I have one which will not be anytime soon as I cannot
> afford it. But again.... the word "Documentation" comes in. I've seen
> the SDC website, but I don't believe the product has any docs..... A
> product with this much power should have RSDOS and OS9 docs explaining
> exactly how to set it up and run it. I may be wrong and Darren may
> have provided documentation... if so, sorry for mentioning it. But
> it's common at this time for everyone creating all this great
> hardware/software and no Docs.... then the questions come... and the
> vague answers... and more questions.... Pretty soon, people just give
> up.
>  As I said before... I've been doing this 30 years and I still learn
> something new every day :-)

So do I, Bill.
> 
>  Bill Pierce
>  "Today is a good day... I woke up" - Ritchie Havens
> 
>  My Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
>  https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
>  Co-Webmaster of The TRS-80 Color Computer Archive
>  http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/
>  Co-Contributor, Co-Editor for CocoPedia
>  http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>  E-Mail: ooogalapasooo at aol.com
> 
> 
> -------------------------
> Email sent using Optus Webmail

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS