[Coco] The Tri-Annual CoCo 4 Thread

[Louis Ciotti]

There is no way a one of the last COCO3s cost you $2000.  The 1992 RS catalog shows the CC3 for $199.  Add dual disk drive, CM-8 monitor, joysticks, and multipack interface and you may be at like $1100.


On Feb 12, 2014, at 11:17 PM, Michael Robinson <deemcr at robinson-west.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 21:58 -0500, Brian Blake wrote:
>> Hear, hear!
>> 
>> Well said Bill.
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> www.tandycoco.com
>> www.tandycoco.com/forum
>> On Feb 12, 2014 9:51 PM, "Bill Loguidice" <bill at armchairarcade.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Is it possible you're misremembering how much your CoCo 3 gift was? Even
>>> when it was brand new, it would have been incredibly difficult to come up
>>> with a $2000 configuration, no matter how much you loaded it up. It really
>>> wasn't designed to exceed $1000 even in its most extravagant configuration.
>>> Also, no one is expecting the CoCo 4 to have any type of mainstream
>>> success. It won't. It won't even have Raspberry Pi success, which is the
>>> biggest hit for these types of hobbyist systems (and a lot of that has to
>>> do with the extraordinary price). The "new CoCo" (I hesitate to call it a
>>> CoCo 4) has to be targeted to the CoCo fans like the ones on this list,
>>> and, preferably (more maximum impact) the Dragon fans. I'd say sales of a
>>> few hundred units at $150 - $300 would be reasonable if it hit enough
>>> checkpoints on most wishlists, but numbers beyond that would be wildly (and
>>> baselessly) optimistic. There's a LOT of competition out there in this
>>> hobbyist category, and has been stated time and again, not a great deal of
>>> nostalgia for the CoCo to help drive anything remotely like mass
>>> production. Obviously we're all trying to change that (the book, the new
>>> homebrew projects, etc.), but we've got a LONG way to go.
>>> 
>>> -Bill
> 
> My COCO 3 was one of the last ones made and it was at least $1k,
> probably $2k.  With the attitude no interest can be drummed up, of
> course there isn't a COCO 4 yet.  You've gotta dream big enough to 
> get anywhere, yet not so big that nothing can be done.  I looked
> for a multi pak as I think I gave mine away.  There is only one on
> E-Bay and they want over $200 for it.  Yikes!  If it sells for that,
> that'll put the lie to there being no interest in the COCO.
> 
> Radio Shack's approach to selling the COCO was terrible, and it still
> succeeded for over a decade.  A little bit of decent marketing, good
> engineering, and fair pricing should make a COCO 4 sell easily.
> 
> Here is why a COCO 4 is needed and desirable.  Color computers were easy
> to program compared to the alternatives back in the day and a COCO 4
> could likewise be a dream to program.  Color computers were personal
> systems and very usable without flaky media.  There is a COCO 4 basic
> already, but no machine to run it on native.  Emulating on today's
> less than desirable "modern" PCs just won't cut it.
> 
> Instead of a ROM, Nitros9 on a 32+ gig SSD might work.  An enhanced
> version of Basic and a simple command, say nitros9 to get to a gui makes
> sense.  A 128 gig SSD can be had for less than $100.  Surely a smaller
> one can be had for less than $50.  The processor can be designed using a
> xylinx perhaps.  You need a GIME chip and 6809E equivalent to achieve
> COCO 3 compatibility.  Should be able to add 16 bit and 32 bit
> instructions allowing one to access up to 4 gigs of ram.  Modern HD
> televisions and modern LED flat panels can do 16 million plus colors.
> Instead of disks, switch to creating special files on the SSD and
> serving them as if they were local disks.  Another option is to
> implement USB so the COCO 4 can read USB memory sticks.
> 
> A COCO 4 is interesting if it is a pleasure to program, downward
> compatible, and far more powerful than it's predecessors.
> 
> Right now, games like Gauntlet II aren't playable for most people.  A
> dwindling number of people have good COCO disk drives where Gauntlet
> II's copy protection prevented making backups.  I have dsk images of
> Gauntlet II, but the best I can do is try to use an emulator on an
> IBM compatible.  It is miserable to play Gauntlet II under emulation.
> 
> Don't make a COCO 4 that plugs into the television, make it a laptop.
> Compete with Google's Chromebook.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, the Color Computer 3 could connect via ethernet to
> a local area network.  No reason a clone can't do so.
> 
> Here is what I see as reasonable...
> 
> Build an advanced 6809 processor/GIME chip replacement that runs at
> minimally 800 Mhz.  Add to this processor new instructions like the old
> ones that allow adding, multiplying, loading, storing, and subtracting
> on 32 bit registers.  Add new pokes that allow the speed to be adjusted
> all the way down to what the CoCo 2 ran at, to high speed on the CoCo 3
> to 800 Mhz+.  8 bit pic micro controllers already run at 8 mhz.  Don't
> know about the 32 bit series.  Allow the memory bus to be sped up so 
> you can access up to a gigabyte of memory in 100 cycles or less.  In
> short, build the 6809 using modern technology and add 32 bit
> instructions speeding the bus speed up a lot.  If at all possible,
> achieve a Gigaherz or better without active cooling.  Don't build a 
> CISC processor to the extent possible.  A RISC processor will probably
> be faster.  Taking the Hitachi 6309 or the Motorola 6809E, what should
> the 32 bit grandchild look like?  A program written for grand dad should
> run on the grand child, I know that much at least.
> 
> My first program was written on a color computer.  I hate that the COCO
> has been abandoned.  No other computer since has been as much of a
> pleasure to work with.
> 
> 
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