[Coco] DriveWire is just a hobby (Was: DW4 on MAc & Linux)

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 26 September 2013 14:40:19 Al Hartman did opine:

[...] 
> It's hard to juggle a laptop, and a Coco 3 with the DW server using the
> same screen.

:) I hate to say it Al, but that is not a limitation of your laptop, its a 
limitation of its OS, some variety of windows I assume.  My laptop has 
linux Mint-14 installed, a debian/ubuntu derivative built for machines low 
on resources and has as many windows available as I can generate 
comfortably without running its 1Gb of ram out into swap.  IIRC I have 4 
windows defined, and switching from one to another is as simple as clicking 
on the icon of the one I want to see.  Switching away from a running 
program has zip effect on that running program.  Switch back to it, and all 
the output it generated while you were gone, is already there.

> >> I would not have had to ask a single question if the Documentation
> >> had contained a listing of the files in the DRIVEWIRE.ZIP file, and
> >> a description of what each file is/does.
> > 
> > I believe this information is available on Cloud 9s page.
> 
> Nope, not all of it. As I said above, it's scattered all over the place.
> 
> >> Someone tell me what all the files are in the Drivewire.zip file, and
> >> I'll make up a FILES.LST or README.TXT and add it to the file, and
> >> re-upload it. Though, anyone who sends me an e-mail with that info
> >> has already done 99% of the work.
> > 
> > The information on cloud 9s page would allow you to create such an
> > index if
> > you still feel it would be helpful.
> 
> Nope, not there. Only 6 of the 21 files are identified by name. The rest
> is up to the
> end-ser to figure out on their own.
> 
> A list of the files and what they are for is not just helpful, but
> absolutely
> necessary to the un-knowledgeable new user.
> 
> >> The Drivewire 4 WIKI should have all the info the Cloud9 page has.
> 
> Tough call.  I did add a section that encourages users to visit the
> cloud9 page and explains what can be found there.  However, the
> drivewire 4 project does not produce ROMs or wavs or any of the stuff
> found on cloud9s site, and the information there was written by c9.  If
> they are OK with us copying it then we could, but it seems better to
> leave this where it is to me.

100% concurrence with that, its what we have copyrights for.
 
> > ...but asking me to do even more seems inappropriate and a bit
> > rude.  Beggars, choosers, and that sort of thing.  Don't make my hobby
> > unfun.  Its not nice.

Agreed, even though I too am guilty of pushing the wrong buttons at times.
 
> It's my hobby too... And, it's VERY "unfun" to be unable to get
> something working
> because there's insufficient documentation.

Did you try the script I published on this list, perhaps a week ago?  Or 
were you one of the righteous type that gave me heck for doing it?

Sometimes a poor short term memory is an advantage. 

> You can't extoll the virtues of Drivewire, and then just toss new people
> into the
> deep-end to fend for themselves.
> 
> I've been talking about Drivewire all over, but I can't recommend it to
> new users until
> 'm up to speed enough to support them. The resources aren't here for
> people to figure
> it out on their own.
> 
> I've been using computers since 1979. I'm not stupid. I'm a Novell CNE.
> I've set up
> networks under Novell, Lantastic, LifeNet, Windows, OS/2, Appletalk,
> MacOS X Server, etc...

I date from there too, putting my first helpful utility, written to run on 
an RCA Cosmac Elf motherboard, to work for a run of at least 15 years at 
KRCR-TV in Redding CA. in the spring of 1980.

> I've setup Laplink V to communicate and transfer files. I've used
> Interlnk and Intersvr on MS-DOS 6.
> 
> That was all easier than this, because the documentation was complete.
> 
> I'll help make the documentation better, but I need the information that
> needs to be documented first.
> 
> It's the chicken and egg thing. I'm not Aaron, and I'm not Mark
> Marlette. I don't have all the
> intimate knowledge that you two, and others have in their heads.
> 
> These messages are a result of my frustration.
> 
> I will help make this easier for new users. But, I need to know what you
> all know to do it.
> 
> I'm your polar opposite. I don't enjoy writing code, but I love writing
> user manuals. I'm really
> good at it, as well as designing user interfaces.
> 
> That, and tech support were my main jobs at Zebra Systems (as well as
> making our ads).
> 
> I'm not really set up with a work area for my Coco yet.
> 
> I'm disabled with bad knees and three ruptured vertebrae, so I spend
> most of my day in bed.
> I'm typing this on a Dell laptop while lying in bed.
> 
> For me to sit up for long periods of time is excruciatingly painful. So,
> I don't have a
> good desk area setup. Because, I rarely work that way anymore.
> 
> I'm willing to setup such a space because I'd like to use my Cocos, my
> TRS-80 Model I/III/4D,
> my Atari-ST, and other classic systems I have here.
> 
> I want to help others. I think Drivewire is fantastic!
> 
> Did you know that the XT-IDE Universal BIOS implements something similar
> for PC systems?
> I'm working on building an XT-IDE card for my 5160 XT and doing the same
> thing with it.
> 
> I'm frustrated that so much is available with Drivewire, and most of it
> is out of reach to me
> because I don't know what all the files are for, and have never learned
> OS9/NitrOS9.

Then I'd suggest you do learn os9/nitros9, because when you are comfy with 
it, then the step to linux is both intuitive and natural.  Linux throws in 
enough security if iptables is running, that you _can_ hook it directly to 
your cable or fiber modem without worrying about the machine being owned by 
a black hatter in 15 minutes from the time you plug in the cat-5 cable.
> 
> Do you understand yet?

I think I do Al, but there are times when if you want to know how it works, 
you must be willing to learn how it works by asking the right questions of 
the right people.  A side effect of that is that when the answers have to 
be repeated weekly, the message about poor docs gets said just as plainly 
as the constant harping on it.  If in the process, you do manage to create 
better docs, something I suspect you will do a good job of, then I'd 
imagine edit perms will be gladly extended.
 
> I *HATE* being a clueless, newbie user. I can usually get up to speed
> very quickly. I made
> my living doing that until my accident.
> 
> But, without complete documentation... I can't. And that means I'm
> constantly hitting roadblocks
> and speed bumps, when I want to go full-speed ahead and learn all this
> neat stuff.
> 
> -[ Al ]-

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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And now for something completely the same.
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