[Coco] DriveWire is just a hobby (Was: DW4 on MAc & Linux)

Thu Sep 26 15:10:11 EDT 2013

>From the point of view of someone who's just now picked up Drivewire (and still not gotten it going due to some obscure problem), I can tell you that I found everything that should have made it go on one of the two sites.  The cross-referencing thing could use some work, of course.  I had to frequently depart sourceforge and dig through the cloud-9 page (or vice-versa) to actually find everything I wanted, and one page really had no indication of what might be found on the other at that point.  If that had been fixed, it probably would have simplified things greatly.

Chris

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Wolfe" <aawolfe at gmail.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 1:58:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] DriveWire is just a hobby (Was: DW4 on MAc & Linux)
> 
> On Sep 26, 2013 2:29 PM, "Al Hartman" <alhartman6 at optonline.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> In a fairy tale world, sure.  Reality is that every question I've
> answered
> >> here lately is also already answered in the documentation.
> >>  Apparently
> the
> >> time Cloud9 and I spent writing it was not well spent.
> >
> >
> > Well... I'd reply by saying that the documentation is all over the
> > place.
> >
> > Some in a link on the Cloud9 Page, some on the page itself, and
> > some on
> the Drivewire 4 page, and the rest in your heads.
> 
> I think documentation for the things Cloud 9 created and supports
> will need
> to stay on Cloud 9s site, and documentation for DriveWire 4 will need
> to
> stay on the dw4 site.  However, we can do a better job of cross
> referencing
> the two.  I took a step towards this in creating the new section on
> the dw4
> wiki, and am willing to make other changes/additions if given
> specific
> suggestions.
> 
> The "rest in your heads" part is not good.  Please help me identify
> what
> information specifically is not documented on one of the two sites.
>  I know
> the files in the cloud 9 zip file are not completely explained.  I
> think
> this is just a matter of saying "the .bins are ROMs, the .wavs are
> for
> cassette, etc" and I'll ask cloud9 to add that info.  What else is
> not
> documented?
> 
> >
> > For me, I'd like it all to be in one, complete document that I
> > could have
> printed out and sat next to my computer with.
> >
> > It's hard to juggle a laptop, and a Coco 3 with the DW server using
> > the
> same screen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>> I would not have had to ask a single question if the
> >>> Documentation had
> >>> contained a listing of the files in the DRIVEWIRE.ZIP file, and a
> >>> description of what each file is/does.
> >>
> >>
> >> I believe this information is available on Cloud 9s page.
> >
> >
> > Nope, not all of it. As I said above, it's scattered all over the
> > place.
> >
> >
> >>> Someone tell me what all the files are in the Drivewire.zip file,
> >>> and
> >>> I'll make up a FILES.LST or README.TXT and add it to the file,
> >>> and
> >>> re-upload it. Though, anyone who sends me an e-mail with that
> >>> info has
> >>> already done 99% of the work.
> >
> >
> >
> >> The information on cloud 9s page would allow you to create such an
> >> index
> if
> >> you still feel it would be helpful.
> >
> >
> > Nope, not there. Only 6 of the 21 files are identified by name. The
> > rest
> is up to the
> > end-ser to figure out on their own.
> >
> > A list of the files and what they are for is not just helpful, but
> absolutely
> > necessary to the un-knowledgeable new user.
> >
> >
> >>> The Drivewire 4 WIKI should have all the info the Cloud9 page
> >>> has.
> >
> >
> > Tough call.  I did add a section that encourages users to visit the
> > cloud9
> > page and explains what can be found there.  However, the drivewire
> > 4
> > project does not produce ROMs or wavs or any of the stuff found on
> > cloud9s
> > site, and the information there was written by c9.  If they are OK
> > with us
> > copying it then we could, but it seems better to leave this where
> > it is to
> > me.
> >
> >> ...but asking me to do even more seems inappropriate and a bit
> >>
> >> rude.  Beggars, choosers, and that sort of thing.  Don't make my
> >> hobby
> >> unfun.  Its not nice.
> >
> >
> > It's my hobby too... And, it's VERY "unfun" to be unable to get
> > something
> working
> > because there's insufficient documentation.
> >
> > You can't extoll the virtues of Drivewire, and then just toss new
> > people
> into the
> > deep-end to fend for themselves.
> 
> Why not?  Its worked OK for the past few years. Your experience with
> the
> Coco and with Drivewire is your responsibility, not mine.  This is
> not a
> commercial product and we do not have any agreement binding either of
> us to
> anything beyond the terms of the GPL.  To expect all the benefits of
> commercial software from an open source project will only lead to
> disappointment.
> 
> >
> > I've been talking about Drivewire all over, but I can't recommend
> > it to
> new users until
> > 'm up to speed enough to support them. The resources aren't here
> > for
> people to figure
> > it out on their own.
> 
> Again.. Plenty of folks are using drivewire.  I'm sorry that the lack
> of
> file descriptions on the cloud9 website stymied your progress, but
> this has
> not been a roadblock for everyone.
> 
> >
> > I've been using computers since 1979. I'm not stupid. I'm a Novell
> > CNE.
> I've set up
> > networks under Novell, Lantastic, LifeNet, Windows, OS/2,
> > Appletalk,
> MacOS X Server, etc...
> >
> > I've setup Laplink V to communicate and transfer files. I've used
> Interlnk and Intersvr on MS-DOS 6.
> >
> > That was all easier than this, because the documentation was
> > complete.
> >
> > I'll help make the documentation better, but I need the information
> > that
> needs to be documented first.
> >
> > It's the chicken and egg thing. I'm not Aaron, and I'm not Mark
> > Marlette.
> I don't have all the
> > intimate knowledge that you two, and others have in their heads.
> >
> > These messages are a result of my frustration.
> >
> > I will help make this easier for new users. But, I need to know
> > what you
> all know to do it.
> >
> > I'm your polar opposite. I don't enjoy writing code, but I love
> > writing
> user manuals. I'm really
> > good at it, as well as designing user interfaces.
> >
> > That, and tech support were my main jobs at Zebra Systems (as well
> > as
> making our ads).
> >
> > I'm not really set up with a work area for my Coco yet.
> >
> > I'm disabled with bad knees and three ruptured vertebrae, so I
> > spend most
> of my day in bed.
> > I'm typing this on a Dell laptop while lying in bed.
> >
> > For me to sit up for long periods of time is excruciatingly
> > painful. So,
> I don't have a
> > good desk area setup. Because, I rarely work that way anymore.
> >
> > I'm willing to setup such a space because I'd like to use my Cocos,
> > my
> TRS-80 Model I/III/4D,
> > my Atari-ST, and other classic systems I have here.
> >
> > I want to help others. I think Drivewire is fantastic!
> >
> > Did you know that the XT-IDE Universal BIOS implements something
> > similar
> for PC systems?
> > I'm working on building an XT-IDE card for my 5160 XT and doing the
> > same
> thing with it.
> >
> > I'm frustrated that so much is available with Drivewire, and most
> > of it
> is out of reach to me
> > because I don't know what all the files are for, and have never
> > learned
> OS9/NitrOS9.
> >
> > Do you understand yet?
> >
> > I *HATE* being a clueless, newbie user. I can usually get up to
> > speed
> very quickly. I made
> > my living doing that until my accident.
> >
> > But, without complete documentation... I can't. And that means I'm
> constantly hitting roadblocks
> > and speed bumps, when I want to go full-speed ahead and learn all
> > this
> neat stuff.
> >
> 
> Please let me know what is not documented for DriveWire 4 issues and
> Cloud
> 9 know about things they produce.  It will be corrected.
> 
> 
> >
> > -[ Al ]-
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
> > --
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> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
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> 

-- 
Christopher Smith
Systems Engineer, Wolfram Research