[Coco] DW4 Turbo 230kb mode was : Eureka!

Thu Sep 19 19:56:13 EDT 2013

i really dont understand this thing about emudrvs. I dont use VCC but mess and xroar can work with real drivers.

i even made a patch for mess to support superide so i can dump my CF image and run it out of the box on MESS.

what is the point of an emulator that cannot emulate real devices?

On 2013-09-19, at 7:49 PM, Bill Pierce <ooogalapasooo at aol.com> wrote:

Aaron I agree 100% with you.
I would go as far to so it's almost out of hand. Too many systems are being built from one source and eventually too many IF THEN ELSEes get lost in the mix.

But the problem I'm talking about is the fact you CAN'T build you own "custom" boots OR use Cocoboot for the simple reason that the "custom" modules you need are not being built along with the repo disks. And if they are being built, they're sitting in the repo modules folder or some obscure folder instead of in the nitros9/6x09Lx/modules folder on the Nos9 dsk were they belong.

With that, Let's say someone downloads some disks from the repo and wanting to make a bootdisk for VCC... not VCC becker... just plain old Vcc. Guess what? Go looking for the EmuDsk.dr, dd_h0.dd or h0.dd.... They are NOT in the nitros9/6x09l2/modules /rbf folder on a Nos9 dsk.... and they are not even in the  ../levelx/modules folder in the repo.
They are way over in the 3rd party/drivers/emudsk just sittin there. Built.... but unused.
Now... tell me the average percentage of people here that use the Vcc emulator and I'll tell you the average percentage of people that are either using an old build of nitros9 or using the emudsk driver from the old build with the new build because they didn't know where to find them. A lot of people do not even know how to get into the repo sources much less build it. I just recently have grasped the concept and up until then, I had to rely on what was in the download section.

The same thing applies to the dw4read.asm and the dw4write.asm for the dw4 turbo mode... except they are not even being built at all. And those are not the only ones.

Bill Pierce
My Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
Co-Webmaster of The TRS-80 Color Computer Archive
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/
Co-Contributor, Co-Editor for CocoPedia
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
E-Mail: ooogalapasooo at aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Coco] DW4 Turbo 230kb mode was : Eureka!

The Nitros9 build process is not great.  There has been discussion
about how to improve it but no clear answers that I've heard.
I think the original idea was that folks would take a 'generic' disk
image and modify the modules used on it from OS9.  That doesn't
work out too well for boot stuff though.  Over the years we have added
more and more ways to boot OS9 which results in more and
more disks.. levels * platforms * boot types = lots.

One solution that I find very interesting is CocoBoot by Brett Gordon.
Cocoboot can load OS9 using a variety of drivers.  It can autodetect
hardware present and let the user choose the boot mechanism.  It is
extremely flexible.  At some point perhaps this would allow disks
to be greatly reduced by making it just levels * platforms.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Bill Pierce <ooogalapasooo at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, I have the lwtools port. and dwread and dwwite are included.... It's 
dw4read and dw4write that are not and they are needed for the dw4 turbo version 
of Nitros9 to work. These are 2 completely different R/W drivers from the 
standard dw files. They are in the /level1/modules folder along with the others.
> It needs something like:
> 
> IFDEF DW4
> use dw4read.asm
> use dw4write.asm
> ELSE
> use dwread.asm
> use dwwrite.asm
> ENDIF
> 
> But then all the makefiles would have to be modified to add a
"Nos96x09L2cocox_dw4.dsk" to each system build as there is no provision for the 
dw turbo mode builds. Basically a copy of the setups for the dw disks with the 
dw4 name the DW4 variable set instead. This would include several makefiles and 
I think modification to the rules.mak to define the dw4 disk type even though 
the dw type would probably work fine.
> 
> As I said, I don't have enough knowledge in the repo/nitros9/lwtools/mercurial
syntax to make such changes. But I do have enough knowledge to know that if they 
were being built, they would be in their respective folders. They should be 
labeled dw4io.sb and boot_dw4. Only dwio.sb and boot_dw are there.
> 
> Bill Pierce
> My Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
> https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
> Co-Webmaster of The TRS-80 Color Computer Archive
> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/
> Co-Contributor, Co-Editor for CocoPedia
> http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> E-Mail: ooogalapasooo at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Retro Canada <retrocanada76 at gmail.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Cc: coco <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 5:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [Coco] DW4 Turbo 230kb mode was : Eureka!
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> are you getting the lwtools-port? dwread and dwrite are included inside the
asms
> dwio and not in the makefile.
> 
> On 2013-09-19, at 5:11 PM, Bill Pierce <ooogalapasooo at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok, I've found and built the HDBDOSDW4 roms, bins etc.
> Now on to NitrOS-9.....
> As usual... the DW4read & DW4write modules are not implicated or built in the
> current NitrOS-9 repo. The sources are only "there". They were being built
> before but with all the new changes there are a LOT of things not in the
> makefiles. This being one of them
> dwread & dwwrite are used in both the dwio.sb and boot_dw modules. There is no
> provision in the makefiles nor the sources themselves to include the turbo
> version. My problem with this is why were they removed in the first place?
> Yes, I could just change the " use dwread.asm" and " use dwwrite.asm" in the
> sources to " use dw4read.asm" and " use dw4write.asm" and rebuild, then I
> wouldn't have the regular builds.. UGGGGH !
> As I have said all along, if it's in the repo BUILD IT!. Even if it's not
> used... throw it in the proper NITROS9/6x09Lx/MODULES/ directory on the built
> disks so if someone wants to make such a boot, it's available.
> I would gladly go through the whole repo and do this for all the missing stuff
> if I had the knowledge of how the makefiles relate to each other. Hell, I
would
> make sure there was just a "NitrOS-9 Modules.dsk" for each machine and level
> that contained all buildable modules in the repo for all Coco systems. With a
> disk like this, one could build a boot for any sytem with one disk.
> Some are being built... just not included on any disk. They need to be on the
> disk in the MODULES dir.
> I know... I know.... you can add this and change that in the repo, but where
> does this leave the other 95% of the people who just go to the downloads and
> expect to find a disk for their purposes?
> 
> The myth of OS-9 being a programmer's OS is still being perpetuated even 25
> years after it's demise. That's sad.
> 
> Now, the $50,000,000 question. Were there any changes to the dwread.asm and
> dwwrite.asm that were NOT reflected in the dw4read.asm and dw4write.asm? Are
> they going to crash the system if I try to use them or can I just exchange the
> names and build? It seems everytime I get around to downloading the repo...
the
> name of a lot of the modules have been changed..... again.
> I have been trying to make a database of all the various modules used in
> OS-9/NitrOS-9 for a project I have going and every time  I go to make sure I
> have everything, I notice the names of modules have changed. I end up deleting
> my whole database and starting over. This has been done 3 times now over a 2
> year span.
> Old boot build scripts from 4 months ago will no longer work. And some of the
> current provided scripts are still not right.
> 
> The repo is ALMOST in a stable, buildable state now and I thanks those who
have
> been working to make the needed corrections. I just recently made a complete
> build that went very smoothly and the things I have tested all worked as
> expected. We really need to complete this and get everything that's there in
> working order.
> With the various Coco machines and systems I run (including the emulators), I
am
> willing to test run almost anything with the exception of the sIDE, IDE and CF
> stuff as I don't have the hardware to test it. But for floppies, dw4, hdbdos,
> becker, Coco 1, 2, or 3, I can pretty much give it a run for the money if
> someone is willing to work on this.
> I would love to be able to try the DW4 turbo mode on my Coco 3 in NitrOS9 if I
> can get the proper drivers built.
> 
> Bill Pierce
> My Music from the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 & 3
> https://sites.google.com/site/dabarnstudio/
> Co-Webmaster of The TRS-80 Color Computer Archive
> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/
> Co-Contributor, Co-Editor for CocoPedia
> http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> E-Mail: ooogalapasooo at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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