[Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards

Wed Jul 10 10:15:56 EDT 2013

I think the first mistake here is that he is trying to install OS-9 without
knowing what it really is.

First thing: starting reading the nitros-9 technical documentation. Read
all about drivers and descriptors. There are some Rainbow magazines
explaining the OS-9 boot process. (November - 1983 ? don't remember, you
can look the OCR index). Once you know about the boot file, kernel drivers,
scf, rbf, etc you can now start looking at the build scripts. Now magikally
they will start to make sense for you.

It's perfectly possible to rebuild NitrOS-9 without floppy but you will
need DW, but is also much better using VCC because there you can emulate a
superIDE and floppy drives. Make your virtual CF and then transfer to your
real CF. SuperIDE emulation on VCC uses real rbsuper drivers not emulation
ones.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Mark Marlette <mmarlette at frontiernet.net>wrote:

> Gustavo,
>
> As you can build without a floppy, it becomes very advanced for the user.
> This is beyond normal support and is fee service.
>
> Hopefully you understand this.
>
> The C-9 distribution is a common distribution that works for most and is
> placed on the CF gratis. HDB-DOS, SuperDriver and NitrOS-9 are all open
> source and free. For such, we don't support this in our standard support
> package when the product is purchased. Contact me via PM and can discuss
> situation / fees if you are interested.
>
> Other than that....Roll up your sleeves and dig in to it.
>
> I do have a couple of Y cables for sale....$45ea +s/h . Anyone PM if
> interested....Getting rare as......... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Gustavo Ranaur Schoenaker <ranaur at ranaur.net>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 11:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards
>
>
> Mark,
>
> After this kind RTFM :-), I read all I'm thinking to initialize the card
> from scratch, not to copy from the original one.
>
> Problem is, I don't have the multipak, so I can't use the floppy and the
> superIDE simultaneously. What are my options to initialize it? Copy
> wizard.bas to tape? Use driveware? Any help/FAQ old post I can follow?
>
> For the records I compared every single byte of the cards. The good card
> has exactally 256901120 bytes. I compared each of them. So, copy errors are
> excluded. The only think I can think about is different geometry, that`s
> why I'll try to start from scratch.
>
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ cp /dev/disk3 256_CARD
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ diskutil eject /dev/disk3
> Disk /dev/disk3 ejected
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ ls -l 256_CARD
> -rw-r-----  1 ranaur  staff  256901120 Jul 10 00:45 256_CARD
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dc
> 256901120 1024 / p
> 250880
> 250880 1024 * p
> 256901120
> ^C
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dd if=/dev/disk3 of=4GB_CARD bs=1024 count=250880
> dd: /dev/disk3: No such file or directory
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dd if=/dev/disk3 of=4GB_CARD bs=1024 count=250880
> 250880+0 records in
> 250880+0 records out
> 256901120 bytes transferred in 45.345194 secs (5665454 bytes/sec)
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ diff 256_CARD 4GB_CARD
> c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Mark Marlette <mmarlette at frontiernet.net
> >wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > Many people are having issues making a backup or building a boot for the
> > sIDE.
> >
> > I often get asked why don't I simplify it.... It is complex but far from
> > impossible.
> >
> > When I make a distribution I build it on a REAL CoCo. It is built using
> > the scripts. They work, they will always work as long as the disk
> integrity
> > is there and the end user made a legal modifications, if any....Some
> choose
> > to ignore the scripts. Best advice, use the scripts and learn how one is
> > built, then apply it to your situation. That is the work that I did to
> > simplify. Each person learns differently.....Can lead a horse to water
> but
> > can't make them drink....
> >
> > Ed Orbea sent me his CFs that he was having problems with. As he has
> > indicated they all have different ideprobe results, welcome to the world
> of
> > the PC.....3 out of the 4 are SanDisk CFs and look indentical, when in
> fact
> > they are not. I didn't look at the details of the ideprobe. I have seen
> > this as well taking his word on it. I wanted to see the issues so I
> > contacted Ed and he sent them in. They will be returned today Ed all but
> > Transcend is imaged. Transcend is usable, just more has to be done to use
> > this CF...You would have to move your hdb-dos offset lower.
> >
> > I use WinHex Pro. It works for many things we do here at C-9, backing up
> > anything,etc...Comes with a price tag, so understandably it wouldn't be a
> > common users tool of choice. It took me under 5 minutes to access his
> issue.
> >
> > 1. SideWalk DOES NOT create an exact image. Had almost 6million compare
> > errors on a 256MB image. So not sure what it is doing...??? Do not use it
> > otherwise you will have corruption. Aaron will need to address this
> issue.
> > Sure it has something to do with HDB-DOS and NitrOS-9 partitions on same
> > device.
> >
> > To get around the floating cluster counts from various 256MB CFs or any
> > CF. They are all not created equal. Ed sent in 4 CFs, one a Transcend,
> > didn't even have enough sectors to except a C-9 distribution, but the
> > SanDisks did and they all were 256MB...
> >
> > So in my custom distribution...wwwwwwaaaaaayyyyyy way back when I created
> > the standard for the offsets. I analyzed all of my 256MB CFs and picked
> the
> > top sector location for HDB-DOS to reside.....
> >
> > Which takes me to Gustavo's problem here.......You took the first 200MB
> > and compared. Well you shaved off ~2/3's of the HDB-DOS image.
> > Understanding where, what and why the partitions are placed where they
> are
> > is critical to success. So as your compare was equal, your results are
> > erroneous. The good side of what Gustavo has indicated is that it appears
> > that dd will creeate a proper image WHEN the correct sector information
> is
> > used.
> >
> > This sector information is included with EVERY order. It is a custom
> > installation instruction / guide. At the bottom of the doc is the drive's
> > geometry....Most toss it, as my fiancee says, it is all of bunch of blah,
> > blah, blah....until they need it and can speak the language......
> >
> > I tried to use a program called Win32DiskImager(Win32DI) freeware tool on
> > my custom image. It complained that it wouldn't fit...when in fact I knew
> > better. So what I did was made a new backup using that tool on a WinHex
> > imaged CF, then made a new CF with Win32DI, it worked, no problems.
> >
> > WinHex allows you to specify sector locations, start and ending points,
> > etc...A lot more advanced than the free Win32DI program. Thus why Win32DI
> > was complaining....it might act like BACKUP under NOS, have to be
> > identical, don't know....
> >
> > What I proved is that they is a tool that does work that is free.
> >
> > Please don't ask me for a step by step process. What buttons to press,
> > etc. I spend my free time filling orders and doing development on the
> next
> > generation of CoCo gadgets. The information is all in the manuals for
> > HDB-DOS, SuperDriver and the general process, which sometime frankly, is
> > the school of hard knocks.
> >
> > One customer told me once that I spend more time giving him a non answer
> > than the answer....My response was...it is in the manual....My point was
> > "Use the source Luke"........If one does not use the documentation and
> > understand where to look to solve their own issue, you will always be
> > looking for external help. Could have easily spoon feed them with the
> > answer....
> >
> > Luis, when he got his system, had many of the same questions. I gave Luis
> > no more help than anyone else with the standard support package. Now if
> you
> > want more support, then we do that on an hourly charge. The rate is not
> > cheap because of my limited time and it does take me away from my free
> time
> > and my family. Back to Luis....He figured it out and understands the
> > platforms and the tools. Heck he even made his own tools! Was their a
> book,
> > a step by step instruction? No, that was his goal, not sure he even
> > completed his white paper on it. I am not even sure that the NOS
> > documentation describes how to build a kernel???? That has been an open
> > source project for many years and I don't think many have stepped up to
> the
> > plate to help with the documentation.
> >
> > It is a HUGE task and the target audience skill level varies. What I find
> > to be simple...like bootfile generation for the SuperIDE, is complex,
> > impossible to others. Why? Because I have worked on this computer inside
> > and out for most of my life. I am not kidding here. Ask anyone that knows
> > me. I don't have time or the desire to make a document that easily
> explains
> > what I have leaned since 1982 when I got my first CoCo.
> >
> > As Luis says...it works.....understand the beast. Read the manuals, when
> > you think you understand them, read them again. Look at the source code.
> > Wizard, SuperDriver, HDB-DOS, etc....Boisy has released this to the
> public.
> >
> >
> > Bottom line, this is no simple task. It is not covered by the 'normal'
> > support package of the Cloud-9 products. I have spent the time to learn
> all
> > aspects of HDB-DOS and SuperDriver/NitrOS-9, their partitions and how
> they
> > coexist. SuperDriver is the most complex driver ever written for the
> CoCo,
> > with that power comes complexity.
> >
> > The next gen controller I hope will be simpler for the end user....Then
> > again there will be a lot going on behind the scenes. Almost ready to
> start
> > on the prototype layout as the firmware tests have been proven
> successful.
> > Been writing test cases for over three months now, the basis of this will
> > make it to the end product, but the 'real' firmware still needs to be
> > written for it.
> >
> > Hapy CoCoing,
> >
> > Mark
> > http://www.cloud9tech.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Gustavo Ranaur Schoenaker <ranaur at ranaur.net>
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 8:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > More information. I tried again, this time cloning the original CF card
> > using WinHex (cute program!).
> >
> > When I load, for example, Calixto Island using the original card the main
> > screen is nice ... but when I load with the 4G card I see some strange
> > vertical black lines, and if I start the game it freezes with random
> > garbage. The same happens in different games (not, it`s not Professor
> > Lagarto's fault!). You can see the screenshots here ...
> >
> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/109465536824672578462/posts/3shmWMwRtL4
> >
> > I DDed the first 200MB of both cards and diffed the files. No difference.
> > Not a single bit. I really don1`t know what is happening. The SuperIDE
> and
> > the computer works fine. I tried on a tandy 2 and a tandy 3. WIth the
> > original card, it works very well. I almost cried playing Marble Maze
> after
> > more than 20 years :-).
> >
> > Is there any size limitation for using CF cards on SuperIDE? Well I know
> > nothing about the CF cards internals, but I know (thanks Wikipedia!) it
> > emulates an ATA interface. Maybe some cards implements different versions
> > of the protocol, and maybe SuperIDE uses a version of the specification
> > that doesn't works with this card very well. Who knows?
> >
> > I guess I have to buy another one ... any suggestions of brands?
> Kingston?
> > Sandisk?
> >
> > Büller, Büller? Anyone?
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Mark Marlette <
> mmarlette at frontiernet.net
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Even with same manufacture, same size card...the firmware will differ
> at
> > > times as well....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: Luis Antoniosi (CoCoDemus) <retrocanada76 at gmail.com>
> > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 10:30 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards
> > >
> > >
> > > no I use a generic Voigon 8Gb card.
> > >
> > > But each CF card has its own emulation of IDE. So try another card.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Gustavo Ranaur Schoenaker <
> > > ranaur at ranaur.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm learning how to use the SuperIDE. It is amazing product to use
> with
> > > > coco.
> > > >
> > > > Now I would like to use another CF card, so I won't mess with the
> > > original
> > > > one.
> > > >
> > > > I tried to use a 4Gb Transcend (133x) card. I know I won't use/need
> > full
> > > > 4GB, but this was the only one I had free.
> > > >
> > > > I copied the original card with DD command into the new one. It
> worked,
> > > but
> > > > eventualy the Color Computer just freezes of starts to display random
> > > > garbage. When I use the original card it works flawlessy!
> > > >
> > > > Which brands of CF cards works with SuperIDE? Would it work with
> 512MB
> > > > Sandisk cards (model SDCFH-512-903)?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much!
> > > >
> > > > --
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> > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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Long live the CoCo