[Coco] Any news on the so called CoCo4 or Next CoCo project that Bjork was heading?

Thu Oct 21 16:54:37 EDT 2010

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Bob Devries <devries.bob at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Aaron,
>
> you said:
>>
>> Why use a general purpose PC, with all the extra overhead and
>> configuration needed for even the simplest emulator only
>> configuration, when FPGA hardware can be put together more cheaply and
>> can provide a better CoCo experience.
>
> The only reason I would have is "lack of desk space"
>
> If I could build a DE1 into a laptop (eeePC?) style case, I'd be happy, cos
> then I could take it anywhere. But then drivers for an LCD would need to be
> done.
>
> Hmmmm
>
> Regards, Bob Devries
> Dalby, QLD, Australia
>

The current DE1 board is much smaller than even a small PC, but a
little too large to fit inside a Coco case I think.  And of course as
you mentioned there would need to be a screen.  As they technology
gets smaller, cheaper, faster perhaps it could be done so that the
FPGA board was in a coco case and the standard coco connectors were
used, even the keyboard if desired.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe" <aawolfe at gmail.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Any news on the so called CoCo4 or Next CoCo project
> that Bjork was heading?
>
>
>> Personally, I see the FPGA solution the Gary Becker has created as the
>> best "CoCo 4" experience available.
>> It's hard to describe how amazing it is to use.  I am not one to buy
>> into the "user experience" hype normally, but using the CoCo3FPGA on
>> and Altera DE1 feels "real".  It feels like a real CoCo in a way that
>> no emulator ever has to me.
>> It turns on and offers the OK prompt instantly, just like a real CoCo.
>> It resets instantly with the push of a button, just like a real CoCo.
>> And.. there is more to it than just that... hard to put into words.
>> One example I can offer is that although I've had emulators running on
>> my PC for some years, I never bothered to mess around in BASIC like I
>> did as a kid.  The very first time (and several times since) I turned
>> on the CoCo3FPGA, I was just draw to it.. started writing little BASIC
>> programs and experimenting, remembering the stuff I'd done as a kid.
>>
>>
>> Why use a general purpose PC, with all the extra overhead and
>> configuration needed for even the simplest emulator only
>> configuration, when FPGA hardware can be put together more cheaply and
>> can provide a better CoCo experience.  I am not a hardware guy, but it
>> would seem creating adapters for connecting real coco peripherals to
>> an FPGA board would be simpler than some PCI or USB solution as well.
>>
>> -Aaron
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Frank Swygert <farna at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The point of emulating a mythical machine in software is that it can be
>>> done
>>> quickly and cheaply. Ideally the emulation would be pared down into a
>>> total
>>> OS/emulator merged together. Just boot it straight into the emulator
>>> without
>>> all the extra things the OS needs to run other programs. With Linux that
>>> should be easy, but something like VCC or the DOS emulator would be
>>> needed.
>>> A port of either to Linux would be fantastic! Of course it might be just
>>> as
>>> easy to pare down MESS into just a CoCo emulator, then customize
>>> something
>>> like DSL or Puppy to run just that.
>>>
>>> Ideally I'd think the best solution for the hardware would be to optimize
>>> the system for a particular small board computer. One of the ITC boards,
>>> for
>>> instance. Something readily available and low cost, and small. I've seen
>>> a
>>> VIA ITC board mounted in a Commodore 64 case, "upgrading" the Commie.
>>> Some
>>> have mentioned keeping the CoCo keyboard, but we've had adapters to get
>>> away
>>> from that for a long time! Mount a mini USB keyboard on the CoCo case if
>>> you
>>> must have the keyboard on the case.
>>>
>>> The second step might be a card to allow legacy hardware to be attached,
>>> but
>>> I think that's a moot point (this was "step two" of Bjork's project -- a
>>> card with cartridge, joystick, and I think another legacy port or two).
>>> Much
>>> of the old hardware is on its last leg or unobtainable. It's way to easy
>>> to
>>> emulate it in such a way that it can even be improved on. I can almost
>>> see a
>>> use for 5.25" floppy connectivity, but almost everything ever on floppies
>>> is
>>> now available in DSK files or some other downloadable file format. Plus
>>> the
>>> RS drives can be connected to a standard floppy controller already on the
>>> MB... at least some will still work with 360K drives, but that might be
>>> hard
>>> to come by. 1.2MB drives will generally read 160-360K disks, but the
>>> controller might not work with the smaller capacity drives... I don't
>>> think
>>> they do anymore. Making 3.5" drives work should be easy enough though.
>>> The
>>> lack of a 5.25" drive shouldn't be more than a nuisance for a few people.
>>> USB thumb drive or SD card support would be more important.
>>>
>>> What would REALLY be needed is a way to connect the machine to the real
>>> world. The CoCo has always been a good experimenter's machine because it
>>> could be connected to various things through the joystick and cartridge
>>> ports. I don't see a real need for connecting to legacy devices of that
>>> type, but I CAN see a need for easy to program I/O. Something simpler
>>> than
>>> the PCI card slot. Maybe a card with a cable and legacy CoCo connector on
>>> it, but even those are hard to find. I still think that reprogramming the
>>> parallel printer port to be accessible as a PIA or something similar
>>> (maybe
>>> just add some special commands to "DECB4" or whatever, and a driver for
>>> OS-9). I looked at it before, and don't think there are enough lines to
>>> reprogram the PP to emulate a legacy cartridge port. The PP IS
>>> programmable
>>> on a PC though, and it has been used for different I/O in the past.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------
>>> From: Mark McDougall <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au>
>>> Sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 04:38:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Re: [Coco] Any news on the so called CoCo4 or NextCoCo
>>> projectthatBjork was heading?
>>>
>>>> > But I also have a netbook thanks to my job, and that works just fine
>>>> > as an emulator box, and weighs a lot less than a CoCo. So I would
>>>> > agree that 'coco 4' hardware might be kind of silly.
>>>>
>>> On the contrary, my view is that 'Coco 4 Software' is kind of silly.
>>> Personally, I really don't see the point; either faithfully emulate the
>>> Coco
>>> in software, or use a modern PC. What's the point of 'emulating' a
>>> mythical
>>> machine in software?
>>>
>>> OTOH, having 'Coco 4 Hardware' makes a lot more sense. And what I mean by
>>> that, is fully-compatible hardware that integrates not only with legacy
>>> peripherals (cartridges, floppies etc) but also with more modern
>>> peripherals, like SD card, USB joysticks, etc. You get the *full* legacy
>>> experience (ideally it would be a Coco mobo replacement), with the
>>> benefit
>>> of modern convenience where desired. A bit like "pimping" your Coco with
>>> an
>>> unlimited credit account at Cloud9!
>>>
>>> There's also the opportunity to enhance the hardware as well, say, more
>>> colours, custom palette etc. But this is not the primary point of the
>>> exercise, just stuff that is done "because you can". And because
>>> programmable logic makes it that much easier.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frank Swygert
>>> Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
>>> Magazine (AMC)
>>> For all AMC enthusiasts
>>> http://www.amc-mag.com
>>> (free download available!)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>
>>
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