[Coco] DECB or ECB Compiler

[Paul Fitch]

 His webpage is here:  http://www.tekeasy.com/Cer-Comp/  


> -----Original Message-----

> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 

> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Andrew

> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:31 AM

> To: coco at maltedmedia.com

> Subject: Re: [Coco] DECB or ECB Compiler

> 

> Responses inline...

> 

> > Message: 6

> > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:51:14 -0400

> > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch-coco at 30below.com>

> > Subject: Re: [Coco] DECB or ECB Compiler

> > 

> > There was a very advanced system - I'm pretty sure it was a 

> compiler - 

> > fpr the CoCo3; I believe it was called Window Basic 3 or WBasic3 -- 

> > memory cells are froggy right now... I remember drooling 

> over it back 

> > in the day because it was kinda like Basic09 for SECB on Steroids...

> 

> The only one I remember (froggy here too) was Cer-Comp's 

> Window Master, as already mentioned...and what I will speak to.

> 

> > The good features that I remember:

> > 

> > 1) Line numbers not needed (but could be used when importing older 

> > programs)

> 

> As far as I can tell in my user manual (yes, I own a copy of it and

> CBASIC-3) - line numbers were needed in Window Master.

> 

> > 2) It had built-in MMU support - so a DIM statement of an array too 

> > big to fit in 32K *worked* -- if you had 512K, you could DIMension 

> > almost all of the ram (minus program/video/etc. memory) for 

> huge (for 

> > SECB) data support.

> 

> Window Master extended DECB; it didn't add anything extra 

> MMU-wise (except for a RAM disk if you had 512K).

> 

> > 3) It had built-in basic Windowing support - you could 

> create several 

> > different text windows & have different outputs to 

> different windows 

> > -- I don't know if it had graphical capabilities; that's beyond my 

> > memory

> > allocation** right now. (Where's that big DIM statement when I need 

> > it?)

> 

> Window Master offered a full GUI suite of commands for 

> trapping events, opening/closing windows, showing icons, 

> building menus and dialogs, etc. 

> It was actually fairly advanced for the day. It wasn't a 

> compiler, though.

> 

> > Now for the bad news:

> > 

> > 1) I don't believe it contained a "100% SECB compatible" mode. 

> > Depending on the complexity of the program you wanted to convert 

> > probably translated to the complexity of debugging session 

> you would 

> > need to endure to convert a program to WBasic3. I think the 

> "basics" 

> > were quite similar, but when you got into the graphics & whatnot, I 

> > think there was quite a bit that was different.

> 

> Window Master extended DECB - I don't think I ever exercised 

> it extensively as a kid, but from what I do remember, it was 

> fairly highly compatible with standard DECB; the implication 

> was to make it easy to convert existing programs to add 

> windowing support, or build such programs from scratch.

> 

> > 2) No CoCo1/2 support.

> 

> No - CoCo 3 only, and some functionality was limited on 128K 

> CoCo 3s (for example, not as many windows, and the RAM disk 

> was not installed).

> 

> > Anyway, if I get 'round to drumming up some time and finding my old 

> > Rainbows, I'll see if I can find an ad for it.

> 

> If you have an advert for a different windowing 

> system/compiler, I'm sure everyone would love to see it!

> 

> :)

> 

> > ------------------------------

> > 

> > Message: 7

> > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:06:03 -0500

> > From: "Little John" <sales at gimechip.com>

> > 

> > Roger,

> > That sounds kind of like Window Master for the CoCo 3 from 

> Cer-Comp. 

> > It wasn't a BASIC compiler, but added a windowing 

> environment to SECB. 

> > Cer-Comp did offer CBASIC-3 which was a compiler and weighed in at 

> > $149 - the most expensive on the market.

> 

> As I've stated before, I own both of those.

> 

> It should be noted that CBASIC-3 couldn't compile Window 

> Master programs; it had no "knowledge" of the extra commands. 

> I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this wasn't something 

> planned for a future release, but we never saw it.

> 

> As it was, CBASIC-3 offered a wealth of extras to the BASIC 

> programmer; it not only compiled programs to a native binary, 

> but it also extended the BASIC command set (similar to Window 

> Master - though not with any windowing commands). It 

> purported (I never played with it) to make 512K memory access 

> simpler, with extra commands to handle the intricacies. It 

> also added various interrupt processing statements, and other 

> enhancements (like an enhanced editor for code). You still 

> needed to use line numbers, though.

> 

> I had variable luck with it as a compiler; you could get 

> faster code out of it, but from what I recall it wasn't a 

> "blazing speedup" (it did have an interesting command called 

> "GEN" that would allow you to insert ML instructions in the 

> form of HEX or DEC values directly into the object code 

> produced). It may just be that at the time, I was a kid and 

> not a very great programmer; perhaps in the hands of someone 

> more advanced, or with some experimentation - the speedup 

> could be increased. There was a "helpful hints" appendix in 

> the manual for making your code faster.

> 

> I know that if you look carefully in various archives, you 

> might be able to find a copy or two of CBASIC-3 floating 

> around. Both Window Master and CBASIC-3 back in the day had a 

> form of disk-based copy protection on them; I know that 

> CBASIC-3 was broken - Window Master is unknown. Of the two, 

> CBASIC-3 was the better to use, anyhow.

> 

> One other note: As of several years back, Bill Vergona (owner of

> Cer-Comp) would, every now-and-then, sell a copy or two of 

> CBASIC-3 on Ebay - his handle there (I forget what it was - 

> search the archive) hasn't shown activity on it for years, 

> though. I am not even sure he is still with us, but what 

> little interaction I had with him back then (asking about the 

> status of the copyright, etc - on CBASIC-3 - I was hoping he 

> would release it PD) told me he was (still?) a cantankerous 

> man who would hear nothing of the sort, and only sold the few 

> copies he did just to "keep up appearances" with the 

> copyright office (his right, I suppose). He never interacted 

> with this (or any other, that I know of) CoCo 

> community/forum. I am not sure why, and I find it a sad bit 

> of legacy in the CoCo community.

> 

> Whether he is still alive or not, I don't know (but I would 

> love to find out!).

> 

> -- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona

> 

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