[Coco] Why do a next Gen CoCo? was Any news on the socalledCoCo4 or NextCoCo

Fri Nov 19 12:13:09 EST 2010

nothing more to say exactly

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From: "Steve Batson" <steve at batsonphotography.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:16 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Why do a next Gen CoCo? was Any news on the 
socalledCoCo4 or NextCoCo

> Absolutely! With all the emulation possibilities, it would be very easy to 
> eventually emliminate the need to interface to any old hardware and use 
> all new stuff. I mean seriously, things like Orchastra 90, Speech Pack and 
> others were fully emulated, would it really matter that you didn't se a 
> cartidge sticking out somewhere? Some old timers might think so, but it 
> would be much easier for me to pass on an emulator with all this cool old 
> and hopefully new software to the next generation than boxes of hardware 
> that must all be plugged in for everything to work. Back in my early coco 
> days, I'd have killed to not have to pull cards out and clean edge 
> connectors and reseat to get things working. Those things would NOT be 
> missed by me. I see NO reason a properly designed emulator and an optional 
> interface card or box to the outside world for diehards to use their old 
> stuff and to continue hardware hacking would great.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Luis Fernández" <luis45ccs at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:06 AM
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Why do a next Gen CoCo? was Any news on the so 
> calledCoCo4 or NextCoCo
>
> Steve
> I totally agree with you
> The idea is to conserve the magnificent efforts of many people in programs
> and systems that can still give us ideas and emotions
>
> a good emulator will be perfect
>
> we could improve roms and other peripherals maintaining compativilidades
>
> all and all would enjoy from
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Steve Batson"
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:51 PM
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts"
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Why do a next Gen CoCo? was Any news on the so
> calledCoCo4 or NextCoCo
>
>> I agree with Steve on this. I've followed this thread and others on the
>> topic for quite some time. I've commented a few times in the past.
>>
>> I really do think a good, solid emulator is the best option and here's my
>> reasons.
>>
>> 1) Can run and millions of available boxes that most people already have
>> and are cheap
>> 2) Can be made "Extensible" so that add-ons can be created for it to
>> continaully improve it. Can also be easily and cheaply upgraded without
>> constantly spending more on hardware.
>> 3) A card or USB device could allow simple connection to the PC to 
>> connect
>> to Coco specific devices
>> 4) Can take advantage of PC hardware, memory, storage, etc.
>> 5) Replacement parts are in abundance
>> 6) Emulator will live on much longer than the hardware.
>> 7) Software is much easier to mass produce the hardware and certainly 
>> much
>> easier and cheaper to distribute.
>>
>> Yes I know some whant the look and feel of a "Real Coco". Well then get a
>> netbook, package it in a coco case with a Coco I/O interface device to
>> hook
>> up all the ports too. With the speed and power of today's processors and
>> hardware, there's absolutely no reason a well done emulator could not run
>> so well you would know it wasn't the real thing. William's Arcade 
>> Classics
>> that Jeff Vavasour worked on.
>>
>> I could go on and on. I'll just close this message with this. With the
>> disagreements of hardware vs. emulation, the hardware side always seems 
>> to
>> go to either look and feel of the "Real Coco" or some specialized board 
>> or
>> CHIP(s) that can be used. The big issue with the hardware is, that
>> eventually there won't be anyone with the knowledge of the Coco or the
>> desire to keep on creating solutions in terms of products or designs that
>> people can do themselves if they have the skills. If someone is dead set
>> on
>> designing and building some hardware solution to meet their needs and
>> taste, more power to them. There's no reason that there must only be one
>> solution. Still, I think Emulation is the best choice for the reasons I
>> mentioned and some I'm sure I've missed.
>>
>> My 2 cents! :)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>> From: "Steve Bjork" <6809er at srbsoftware.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:50 PM
>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts"
>> Subject: [Coco] Why do a next Gen CoCo? was Any news on the so called
>> CoCo4
>> or NextCoCo
>>
>> I've been watching everyone speak their minds on what the next gen CoCo
>> should be. Pulling in four directions is getting nowhere, as some have
>> pointed out.
>>
>> But you are putting the horse before the buggy, literally.
>>
>> I don't hear is what you are planing to use this next gen CoCo for? In
>> other words, what will use it for when you are done?
>>
>> Are you trying to build a faster CoCo to run programs on?
>>
>> Oh, there is some talk about FPGA board approach can run programs about
>> 10 times faster. Big deal! I can build a Linux box for the price of a
>> FPGA board that will run software 1,000's times faster with better
>> graphics, sound and the Internet to boot. But the FPGA board has no (or
>> little) interface for CoCo hardware. (if I reading the messages right.)
>> Nor will it use any modern computer technology directly. Not much of a
>> next gen CoCo.
>>
>> Or are you trying to make modern technology accessible to the casual
>> CoCo programmer?
>>
>> This was one of the main goals of the CoCo4.com project. (Besides
>> making a CoCo emulator that could run on cheap modern computers.)
>>
>> The Super CoCo 4 BASIC was to support the new display graphic modes of a
>> modern Digital TV along with better and easy to use sound system. Add
>> in an easy to use (and understand) Internet command set (under BASIC) so
>> you can use the internet like a hardcore net programmer.
>>
>> As you can see, the CoCo4.com project was all about unlocking modern
>> computer technology in the same the computers did back in the 80's.
>> Something that modern computer designers just don't do any more.
>>
>> All I'm saying is to layout just what you want the new computer to do
>> before you put that time and $$$ into it.
>>
>> Steve Bjork
>>
>> On 11/18/2010 1:07 PM, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
>>> Frank:
>>>
>>> This is my observation of where the COCO4 concept is at this point:
>>>
>>> The COCO4, what ever it is or will be, is like a person with ropes tied
>> to each arm and leg
>>> with four horses pulling in all different directions. Right now the DE-2
>> FPGA board approach
>>> is winning out and the rest is going to be left behind. Rip to shreads
>> and the pieces left for the
>>> buzzards to pick.
>>>
>>> Any other idea or suggestion will probably meet with some resistance and
>> really is not totally
>>> worth persueing. Unless it solves a personal niche, it probably is no
>> longer worth persueing.
>>>
>>> just my thoughts
>>> james
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2010 at 9:41, Frank Swygert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still two camps -- hardware (FPGA) and software )streamlined
>> emulator/OS
>>>> combined). I'm of the software camp because it would be easier,
>> cheaper,
>>>> and quicker to accomplish. If you bought all new hardware cost would be
>>>> comparable, but even an old Pentium 1I computer can be had for a song
>>>> and would still have the computing power to emulate a CoCo at a
>>>> relatively high speed -- though there's no reason to go so far as a P1
>>>> when even P4 machines are relatively cheap now. And most of us have an
>>>> older board that would be great for this at little to no cost.
>>>>
>>>> What I really advocate is both -- do the streamlined emulator with an
>>>> advanced DECB and use it to develop a higher level Nitros, then put the
>>>> resulting "machine" in an FPGA hardware configuration. Both would be
>>>> compatible software wise, but for those who needed/wanted a compact
>>>> board it could be done. Of course the emulation/OS combo would run
>>>> easily on something like an ITX or embedded Intel board too.
>>>>
>>>> -------------
>>>> It's the attempt at a "coco4" by Steve b. that's dead. The dream lives
>>>> on!! :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 08:29:28AM -0800, Steve Batson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I know many would love to see a CoCo 4 come into existence, but I
>>>>> thought
>>>>>> the project was dead. Says it's dead on coco4.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there new info or activity on this, or just more discussion?
>>>>>>
>>
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