From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 01:37:30 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable (printers)
In-Reply-To: <7EC23BFEB010470BBE0936371E6628BE@speedy>
Message-ID: <955743.4702.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Bruce W. Calkins <brucewcalkins at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Bruce W. Calkins <brucewcalkins at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco serial cable (printers)
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 3:18 PM
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Frank Swygert"
> 
> > I didn't know the LP VIII and DMP-100 only had one
> pin....
> 
> I recall that one of those printers had a star platen and
> one hammer.? The position of the platen at the time of
> the hammer strike determined the row of the dot.
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce W.
> 

They called it a unihammer  or something like that on the Gorilla. When I ordered my Gorilla long ago now, it was already set up for serial, I just had to tell the CoCo to speed up the data rate sending to it.



      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Tue Sep  1 05:31:06 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 03:31:06 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses update
Message-ID: <20090901093105.GA10742@virgo.sdc.org>

Now available at http://www.sdc.org/~goosey/os9/curses02.lzh

stdscr is now a WINDOW * (and there was much rejoicing).

There seems to be a problem with getpos() but other than that, the
subset curses seems to work.

It's still very fragile, though.  Too many functions will happily
dereference a NULL pointer.

I'm going to try to update this daily, so download it, break it, fix
it, and send me the fixes! :-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 12:20:38 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the
	account of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <256039.5916.qm@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It looks like he took his site down - http://www.coco4.com





________________________________
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:23:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the account of one disgruntled member!

On 8/28/09, RJLCyberPunk wrote:
> Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very disgruntled
> member there and as a result he announced he would be leaving the CoCo
> Community all together!

On 8/28/09, Darren A wrote:
> I read those forum posts and didn't understand why he reacted so
> dramatically to a few rude criticisms from one individual.

I have known the name Steve BJork since I began using a CoCo 2 back in 1988. While I have never met the man face-to-face, I've always held a deep respect for him because of his dedication to the Color Computer community. I think is it sad that the attacks on the website resulted in all those lost posts, and even more sad that the loss of those messages, and everything else related to that loss (ie. the musings of one poster, the inability(?) of the admin to restore previous posts, loss of more recent posts, etc.) has resulted in the loss of one of the most valuable resources the CoCo community has.

I hope that Steve will reconsider, and at least continue to be involved with the rest of us. I, for one, will miss his presence if he does not.

Wayne


      

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Tue Sep  1 13:04:50 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:04:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on
	the	account of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <256039.5916.qm@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<256039.5916.qm@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090901170449.GH7650@tuxdriver.com>

On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:20:38AM -0700, Bill Cousert wrote:
> It looks like he took his site down - http://www.coco4.com

Let's not stir-up this thread...FWIW, Steve just posted a couple
of days ago in the "Perl PL for OS/9" thread.  So, reports of his
leaving the overall community seem to have been exaggerated. :-)

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Tue Sep  1 13:47:44 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:47:44 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Sometimes it just the server...
In-Reply-To: <20090901170449.GH7650@tuxdriver.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>	<142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<256039.5916.qm@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20090901170449.GH7650@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <4A9D5E40.9080800@bjork-huffman.net>

And sometimes it's just that a server goes down.
And its back up, since the server is back up.

John W. Linville wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:20:38AM -0700, Bill Cousert wrote:
>   
>> It looks like he took his site down - http://www.coco4.com
>>     
>
> Let's not stir-up this thread...FWIW, Steve just posted a couple
> of days ago in the "Perl PL for OS/9" thread.  So, reports of his
> leaving the overall community seem to have been exaggerated. :-)
>
> John
>   



From mjnelson12 at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 17:40:19 2009
From: mjnelson12 at verizon.net (citadelbbs)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:40:19 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Diecom's Those Darn Marbles
Message-ID: <h7k4c3+lid0@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know how much memory is required for Diecom's game
Those Darn Marbles?



From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 21:01:49 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:01:49 -0400
Subject: [Coco] cloud 9 excellence..
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60909011801i377943e7k30961f8354d43ca5@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, very nice stuff from cloud 9.  thanks Mark!  You set a high bar
for the rest of us recreational hardware/software developers.

If anyone is interested in Model 100 stuff, I make a flash based
memory /storage system for those machines.
see www.istop.com/~sadolph.

It has been a very challenging design for me, and I've enjoyed it a
lot.  The hardware was very tricky, and the firmware went through a
ton of optimization.  A big challenge was "writing" to a socket that
is read-only.

Seems to me there are not many cross-interested TRS-80 keeners.  Seems
like it is mostly one flavour or another, but not more than one ;).

cheers, Steve


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  1 22:38:35 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:38:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <029b01ca28a8$c8d046b0$5a70d410$@com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com><654D6942751244178260BCAFE9C9EA62@Dell3Gig>
	<029b01ca28a8$c8d046b0$5a70d410$@com>
Message-ID: <344653873E654AAA970A4EC34B254ED5@Dell3Gig>

I've seen the two missing issues in INCOMING, so now we have to just wait
until they get processed and moved.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Tom Seagrove
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:01 AM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
> Start looking..
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:58 AM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
> I appreciate that Tom.  If you could let us know when you 
> have done that, I 'll know when to start looking for them.  Thanks. 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Tom Seagrove
> > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:49 PM
> > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> > 
> > CoCo Clipboard Vol 3 No 4 is the last issue.
> > 
> > Vol 1 No 5 and 6 are on Malted as soon as I finish uploading them.  
> > They are in the INCOMING dir so will need to be moved 
> before you can 
> > get to them...
> > 
> > Tom
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:07 PM
> > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> > 
> >  I've completed inputting the Coco Clipboard issues found on the 
> > Glenside DVDs (and I uploaded them to Malted).  Vol 1, Nos 5 and 6 
> > were not on the DVDs.  Does anyone have those?
> > Also, does anyone know if Vol 3, No 4 is the last issue?  
> It was the 
> > last issue of that magazine on the DVDs anyway.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release
> > Date: 08/28/09 18:10:00
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release 
> Date: 08/28/09 18:10:00
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Wed Sep  2 00:27:47 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:27:47 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Diecom's Those Darn Marbles
In-Reply-To: <h7k4c3+lid0@eGroups.com>
References: <h7k4c3+lid0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <009d01ca2b85$b970e9b0$2c52bd10$@com>

Diecom produced Marble Maze.  Those Darn Marbles was produced by Oblique Triad and requires a COCO3 w/512K as the map takes up an entire floppy side and is read into memory before the level begins.

Tom

From: citadelbbs

Does anyone know how much memory is required for Diecom's game
Those Darn Marbles?


From mjnelson12 at verizon.net  Wed Sep  2 07:11:54 2009
From: mjnelson12 at verizon.net (citadelbbs)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:11:54 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Diecom's Those Darn Marbles
In-Reply-To: <009d01ca2b85$b970e9b0$2c52bd10$@com>
Message-ID: <h7ljtq+r3bb@eGroups.com>

Thanks for the info. I thought for the longest time Diecom created it.



--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "Tom Seagrove" <tjseagrove at ...> wrote:
>
> Diecom produced Marble Maze.  Those Darn Marbles was produced by Oblique Triad and requires a COCO3 w/512K as the map takes up an entire floppy side and is read into memory before the level begins.
> 
> Tom
> 
> From: citadelbbs
> 
> Does anyone know how much memory is required for Diecom's game
> Those Darn Marbles?
>




From mmarlette at frontiernet.net  Wed Sep  2 09:19:59 2009
From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:19:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] cloud 9 excellence..
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60909011801i377943e7k30961f8354d43ca5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <559164911.6644201251897599289.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Steve,

Thanks!

I have also been through the challenge of the writing to read only address space and then supporting the CoCo1-3 address maps, as they are not equal.

Couple the SuperIDE's hardware with Boisy's SuperDriver and look out.....

So much more to do, so little free time. Work, which has had nothing but layoffs. Our lab had 21 people in it in June, we are now at 6. Hope and change.....Ok, I won't go there. :) 

Family, vacations, etc....Trying to catch up on a bunch of emails in my inbox.....

Regards,

Mark
Cloud-9
www.cloud9tech.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 8:01:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Coco] cloud 9 excellence..

Wow, very nice stuff from cloud 9.  thanks Mark!  You set a high bar
for the rest of us recreational hardware/software developers.

If anyone is interested in Model 100 stuff, I make a flash based
memory /storage system for those machines.
see www.istop.com/~sadolph.

It has been a very challenging design for me, and I've enjoyed it a
lot.  The hardware was very tricky, and the firmware went through a
ton of optimization.  A big challenge was "writing" to a socket that
is read-only.

Seems to me there are not many cross-interested TRS-80 keeners.  Seems
like it is mostly one flavour or another, but not more than one ;).

cheers, Steve

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From farna at att.net  Wed Sep  2 10:27:46 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:27:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Sometimes it just the server...
Message-ID: <4A9E80E2.6020503@att.net>

Nice to hear directly from you Steve! That should assuage all fears... 
You're well respected and appreciated here by most. Can't let a few "bad 
apples" spoil anything! --------- Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:47:44 -0700 
From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net> And sometimes it's just 
that a server goes down. And its back up, since the server is back up. 
John W. Linville wrote:

> > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:20:38AM -0700, Bill Cousert wrote:
> >   
>   
>> >> It looks like he took his site down - http://www.coco4.com
>> >>     
>>     
-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From boisy at tee-boy.com  Wed Sep  2 11:16:08 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:16:08 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9 Product Availability Update
Message-ID: <C7D41CCC-1076-4255-976A-FB66AA2000C2@tee-boy.com>

Hello everyone,

We have been getting emails regarding the availability of our  
DriveWire 3 HDB-DOS ROM Pak and EPROM products, and I wanted to post a  
clarification here.

We are SOLD OUT of DriveWire 3 HDB-DOS ROM Paks and do not anticipate  
that we will be restocking this product.  It is also marked as SOLD  
OUT on the DriveWire 3 product page at our website (http://www.cloud9tech.com 
)

On the other hand, we DO have 2764 EPROMs in stock and are still  
offering DriveWire 3 HDB-DOS EPROMs for the CoCo 1, 2 and 3, for those  
who want to put the ROM directly into their disk controller (DOS  
Adapter also required for controllers with 24-pin ROM sockets).  We  
are also still offering EROM burning services as well.

Hopefully this clarifies things.  Thanks to everyone for their  
continued patronage of our products!
--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at cloud9tech.com
Web: http://www.cloud9tech.com/





From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 12:42:19 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:42:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
Message-ID: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>

To the list:

I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
subtrahend and does addition. 

If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.

james 


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  2 12:45:17 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:45:17 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>


coco3.com will be moving away from the PHP-Nuke disaster content 
system to a better system that's in use by many commercial and 
professional sites.  The gallery and forum section are integrated 
with PHP-Nuke, so I have to find a way to deal with this.

The new system has blog features that may double as a "forum" section 
depending on your perspective.  I encourage all to try out the blog 
posting/commenting features and see if this could possibly replace 
the forum system.

To make the site more efficient and quicker I'll also be reducing the 
amount of hogging graphics where they're not necessary.

There'll also be a Downloads section of files that I upload myself, 
including Books and Manuals, etc.

The idea is to keep all the content we have now but host it from a 
much better framework/CMS.  Work, yes.  Again, the move to the new 
system is far from complete, so this sneak peek might look pretty 
bare right now.

You'll also notice that I'm now selling a socketed 27xx series EPROM 
Pak boards with auto-start jumper.  Very nice.  In fact, this is the 
Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak board without those components.

http://www.coco3.com/community/

I haven't verified how the sign-up process works, so feel free to 
give it a try and inform me of any issues?

Roger Taylor
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Wed Sep  2 11:02:36 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:02:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Sometimes it just the server...
In-Reply-To: <4A9E80E2.6020503@att.net>
References: <4A9E80E2.6020503@att.net>
Message-ID: <003801ca2bde$68994650$39cbd2f0$@com>

I second the motion...

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Frank Swygert
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:28 AM
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Subject: Re: [Coco] Sometimes it just the server...

Nice to hear directly from you Steve! That should assuage all fears... 
You're well respected and appreciated here by most. Can't let a few "bad 
apples" spoil anything! --------- Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:47:44 -0700 
From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net> And sometimes it's just 
that a server goes down. And its back up, since the server is back up. 
John W. Linville wrote:

> > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:20:38AM -0700, Bill Cousert wrote:
> >   
>   
>> >> It looks like he took his site down - http://www.coco4.com
>> >>     
>>     
-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/02/09
05:50:00



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Wed Sep  2 13:00:00 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:00:00 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EA490.1030803@worldnet.att.net>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> To the list:
> 
> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend and does addition. 
> 
> If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
> 
> james 
> 

Can't find anything regarding the guts of the 6809 or 6309 in the data 
sheets with respect to how subtraction is accomplished. Assembly code 
can use either SUBA #-1 or ADDA #$FF to get the same answer but that 
does not indicate what happens in the CPU core.


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:11:27 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:11:27 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909021011p658443a3r113fe5ca5212e60@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/2/09, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
>Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the
> MC6809
> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's
> compliment of the
> subtrahend and does addition.
>
> If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
>
--

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but 6809 assemblers do not
convert SUB instructions to an ADDs using the two's complement of the
operand. That may be what happens inside the CPU when it sees a SUB
instruction.

Darren


From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 13:27:10 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:27:10 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA490.1030803@worldnet.att.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EA490.1030803@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 13:00, Robert Gault wrote:

> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> > To the list:
> > 
> > I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> > 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> > Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> > is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend and does addition. 
> > 
> > If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
> > 
> > james 
> > 
> 
> Can't find anything regarding the guts of the 6809 or 6309 in the data 
> sheets with respect to how subtraction is accomplished. Assembly code 
> can use either SUBA #-1 or ADDA #$FF to get the same answer but that 
> does not indicate what happens in the CPU core.
> 


Robert

That is what I would expect. To better qualify what my question better is what is the 
binary code generated from a SUBA #1. My suspicion is;

When SUBA #1 ( immedate mode)  is assembled and it is stored in binary form as

$80 $FF instead of $80 $01. 


Why I think this is because of the two things. One from what I remember  from teh 
MC6800 schematic, there was an internal adder but no subtractor. Subtraction was done 
by 2's compliment. Also by the branch relative instruction offset byte(s) are stored as 2's 
compliment so that a simple add is performed and the adition is unsigned addition.

Also the Motorola Freeware Assembler mentions that arithmetic is done is 2's 
complement.  Thus this implies that subtraction is done with 2's complement. 

I can be wrong about this and to do addition internally, one port to the ALU has a 2's 
complement generator at its input to do subtraction by addition

Any way I can implement a 2's complementor and then do add and either invoke it or 
not. 

james


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:36:51 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:36:51 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909021036q85fad0u43730ccdaf4873ac@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/2/09, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of
> them to handle
> 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can
> remember the
> Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment
> of the
> subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the
> MC6809
> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's
> compliment of the
> subtrahend and does addition.
>
> If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
>
---

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Carry flag is affected
differently for ADD and SUB.  Consider the following examples:

CLRA
SUBA  #1

CLRA
ADDA #$FF

Both will leave $FF in accumulator A, but SUB will set the Carry flag
and ADD will not.

Darren


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:40:47 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:40:47 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<4A9EA490.1030803@worldnet.att.net>
	<4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909021040w54ad97bds9917b4efa8ed1459@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/2/09, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
>
> To better qualify what my question better is
> what is the
> binary code generated from a SUBA #1. My suspicion is;
>
> When SUBA #1 ( immedate mode)  is assembled and it is stored in binary form
> as
>
> $80 $FF instead of $80 $01.
>
>
---

No.  SUBA #1 is assembled to $80 $01.

Darren


From uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com  Wed Sep  2 13:45:41 2009
From: uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com (uhmgawa)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EAF45.4000004@third-harmonic.com>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> To the list:
> 
> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend and does addition.

I don't believe that is the case as a subtract
operation sets the carry to the inverse of that
resulting from an add operation.  So in this
respect subtraction of x and addition of -x
aren't trivially interchangeable.

Internally the ALU may well negate the subtrahend,
perform an addition, and invert the carry bit,
with this modification of an underlying add operation
being keyed by a subtraction opcode.

-- 
uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com


From lost at l-w.ca  Wed Sep  2 13:49:43 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:49:43 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EA490.1030803@worldnet.att.net>
	<4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EB037.9020502@l-w.ca>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> That is what I would expect. To better qualify what my question better is what is the 
> binary code generated from a SUBA #1. My suspicion is;
> 
> When SUBA #1 ( immedate mode)  is assembled and it is stored in binary form as
> 
> $80 $FF instead of $80 $01. 
> 
> 
> Why I think this is because of the two things. One from what I remember  from teh 
> MC6800 schematic, there was an internal adder but no subtractor. Subtraction was done 
> by 2's compliment. Also by the branch relative instruction offset byte(s) are stored as 2's 
> compliment so that a simple add is performed and the adition is unsigned addition.
> 
> Also the Motorola Freeware Assembler mentions that arithmetic is done is 2's 
> complement.  Thus this implies that subtraction is done with 2's complement. 
> 
> I can be wrong about this and to do addition internally, one port to the ALU has a 2's 
> complement generator at its input to do subtraction by addition
> 
> Any way I can implement a 2's complementor and then do add and either invoke it or 
> not. 

The assembler does not do anything special with SUB instructions. SUBA 
#1 is encoded as $80 $01. After all, if it did expect something special, 
SUB instructions would not work with data accessed via indexing and so on!

Note that both SUB and ADD take the same number of clock cycles so 
whatever the CPU does internally fits in a clock cycle.


-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca



From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 15:12:06 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:12:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909021040w54ad97bds9917b4efa8ed1459@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<5d802cd0909021040w54ad97bds9917b4efa8ed1459@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9EC386.15860.9DBE33@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 11:40, Darren A wrote:

> On 9/2/09, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> >
> > To better qualify what my question better is
> > what is the
> > binary code generated from a SUBA #1. My suspicion is;
> >
> > When SUBA #1 ( immedate mode)  is assembled and it is stored in binary form
> > as
> >
> > $80 $FF instead of $80 $01.
> >
> >
> ---
> 
> No.  SUBA #1 is assembled to $80 $01.
> 
> Darren


Darren

That is specifically what I wanted to know. I suspected that was the case after I looked at 
some HC11 code that stored the subtrahend byte not in 2's complement form. 

That means when data is routed through the CPU to portA of the ALU there would be a 
2's complementor at the input to do just that and then add. I know that in digital logic you 
can not subtract. Within the CPU you either have the data in 2's complement form prior 
to subtraction or you have to convert the subtrahend to 1's complement and leave the 
menuend in its binary form. Then you do an add and the carry becomes a borrow. 

So my querry is answered. Now onto my coding. 

thanks 
james


From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 15:19:30 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EB037.9020502@l-w.ca>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EAAEE.4556.3DAE87@jdaggett.gate.net>, <4A9EB037.9020502@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <4A9EC542.7254.A48493@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 11:49, William Astle wrote:

> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> > That is what I would expect. To better qualify what my question better is what is the 
> > binary code generated from a SUBA #1. My suspicion is;
> > 
> > When SUBA #1 ( immedate mode)  is assembled and it is stored in binary form as
> > 
> > $80 $FF instead of $80 $01. 
> > 
> > 
> > Why I think this is because of the two things. One from what I remember  from teh 
> > MC6800 schematic, there was an internal adder but no subtractor. Subtraction was done 
> > by 2's compliment. Also by the branch relative instruction offset byte(s) are stored as 2's 
> > compliment so that a simple add is performed and the adition is unsigned addition.
> > 
> > Also the Motorola Freeware Assembler mentions that arithmetic is done is 2's 
> > complement.  Thus this implies that subtraction is done with 2's complement. 
> > 
> > I can be wrong about this and to do addition internally, one port to the ALU has a 2's 
> > complement generator at its input to do subtraction by addition
> > 
> > Any way I can implement a 2's complementor and then do add and either invoke it or 
> > not. 
> 
> The assembler does not do anything special with SUB instructions. SUBA 
> #1 is encoded as $80 $01. After all, if it did expect something special, 
> SUB instructions would not work with data accessed via indexing and so on!
> 
> Note that both SUB and ADD take the same number of clock cycles so 
> whatever the CPU does internally fits in a clock cycle.
> 
> 
> -- 
> William Astle


William

Turning on or off a 2's complementor internally is easy. Just takes up a bit more area on 
the chip and no increase in time. 

thanks
james



From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 15:22:27 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:22:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EAF45.4000004@third-harmonic.com>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EAF45.4000004@third-harmonic.com>
Message-ID: <4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 13:45, uhmgawa wrote:

> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> > To the list:
> > 
> > I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> > 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> > Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> > is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend and does addition.
> 
> I don't believe that is the case as a subtract
> operation sets the carry to the inverse of that
> resulting from an add operation.  So in this
> respect subtraction of x and addition of -x
> aren't trivially interchangeable.
> 
> Internally the ALU may well negate the subtrahend,
> perform an addition, and invert the carry bit,
> with this modification of an underlying add operation
> being keyed by a subtraction opcode.
> 
> -- 
> uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com

Yes with subtraction you treat the carry differently. I understand that. What I needed to 
know was when the subtrahend is converted to 2's compliment, at assembly or internally 
in the ALU. I now know that it is internal and all is well. 


thanks
james




From boisy at tee-boy.com  Wed Sep  2 15:25:34 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:25:34 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EAF45.4000004@third-harmonic.com>
	<4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <27F60864-2A3D-445E-8870-E099A5188015@tee-boy.com>

Somewhat relevant to this discussion is the fact that today I received  
my textbook in the mail, "Synthesis of Arithmetic Circuits: FPGA, ASIC  
and Embedded Systems" for a graduate class I am taking this fall.

On Sep 2, 2009, at 2:22 PM, jdaggett at gate.net wrote:

> On 2 Sep 2009 at 13:45, uhmgawa wrote:
>
>> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
>>> To the list:
>>>
>>> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering  
>>> one of them to handle
>>> 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I  
>>> can remember the
>>> Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's  
>>> compliment of the
>>> subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal  
>>> workings of the MC6809
>>> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the  
>>> 2's compliment of the
>>> subtrahend and does addition.
>>
>> I don't believe that is the case as a subtract
>> operation sets the carry to the inverse of that
>> resulting from an add operation.  So in this
>> respect subtraction of x and addition of -x
>> aren't trivially interchangeable.
>>
>> Internally the ALU may well negate the subtrahend,
>> perform an addition, and invert the carry bit,
>> with this modification of an underlying add operation
>> being keyed by a subtraction opcode.
>>
>> -- 
>> uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com
>
> Yes with subtraction you treat the carry differently. I understand  
> that. What I needed to
> know was when the subtrahend is converted to 2's compliment, at  
> assembly or internally
> in the ALU. I now know that it is internal and all is well.
>
>
> thanks
> james
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 15:38:55 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:38:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <27F60864-2A3D-445E-8870-E099A5188015@tee-boy.com>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<27F60864-2A3D-445E-8870-E099A5188015@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <4A9EC9CF.31626.B64C26@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 14:25, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:

> Somewhat relevant to this discussion is the fact that today I received  
> my textbook in the mail, "Synthesis of Arithmetic Circuits: FPGA, ASIC  
> and Embedded Systems" for a graduate class I am taking this fall.
> 

Boisy

Good Luck in the class. I bet that the class will center more around using Verilog than 
VHDL. From what I remember from where I worked before, Verilog was prefered over 
VHDL for ASIC designs. That maybe based on the fact that most of the cell libraries 
were in Verilog and dsigning ASICs was becoming more of wiring up a bunch of black 
box cells and off to the fab house the ASIC went after simulation. 

My HDL coding for hobby and something to do in my retirement days. Never to old to 
learn something. Well maybe one day I may tackle C/C++. 

james


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Sep  2 16:45:28 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:45:28 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses non-update
Message-ID: <20090902204527.GA28362@virgo.sdc.org>

No new code today. I spent the last two days chasing a bug that wasn't
there.

getyx() (really getpos()) works fine.  I think there might be places
where the cursor location in the WINDOW struct might not get updated,
but that's pretty minor.

The big problem:  wprintw() doesn't work with more than three
arguements: wprintw(win,fmt,arg)  and it should be
wprintw(win,fmt,arg,...) 

I'm either going to have to re-write it with varargs or somehow hack
the existing code (presumably for MicroWare's 68K C) into something
that works.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From diegoba at adinet.com.uy  Wed Sep  2 17:26:51 2009
From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:26:51 -0300
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>

Roger Taylor wrote:
>
> coco3.com will be moving away from the PHP-Nuke disaster content 
> system to a better system that's in use by many commercial and 
> professional sites. The gallery and forum section are integrated with 
> PHP-Nuke, so I have to find a way to deal with this.
>
> The new system has blog features that may double as a "forum" section 
> depending on your perspective. I encourage all to try out the blog 
> posting/commenting features and see if this could possibly replace the 
> forum system.
>
> To make the site more efficient and quicker I'll also be reducing the 
> amount of hogging graphics where they're not necessary.
>
> There'll also be a Downloads section of files that I upload myself, 
> including Books and Manuals, etc.
>
> The idea is to keep all the content we have now but host it from a 
> much better framework/CMS. Work, yes. Again, the move to the new 
> system is far from complete, so this sneak peek might look pretty bare 
> right now.
>
> You'll also notice that I'm now selling a socketed 27xx series EPROM 
> Pak boards with auto-start jumper. Very nice. In fact, this is the 
> Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak board without those components.
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/
>
> I haven't verified how the sign-up process works, so feel free to give 
> it a try and inform me of any issues?
>
> Roger Taylor
Hello Roger.
I like what I can see of the new look, but when I try to sign in, I get 
"Invalid Username".
I checked the information entering it manually in the main coco3 page 
and works OK.
May be is better if we are forced to create new accounts to make sure 
that no security leaks are carried over from the old site?

Diego



From uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com  Wed Sep  2 17:52:12 2009
From: uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com (uhmgawa)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:52:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EAF45.4000004@third-harmonic.com>
	<4A9EC5F3.18318.A73963@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EE90C.40104@third-harmonic.com>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:

>> I don't believe that is the case as a subtract
>> operation sets the carry to the inverse of that
>> resulting from an add operation.  So in this
>> respect subtraction of x and addition of -x
>> aren't trivially interchangeable.
    :
> Yes with subtraction you treat the carry differently. I understand that. What I needed to 
> know was when the subtrahend is converted to 2's compliment, at assembly or internally 
> in the ALU. I now know that it is internal and all is well. 

My point rather was given the disposition of the
carry bit after a subtract operation being
opposite from that of an addition, the data is
being interpreted as unsigned in both operations.

-- 
uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com


From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Wed Sep  2 18:36:40 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:36:40 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EF378.7050505@bjork-huffman.net>

James,

As many have pointed out the SUB command's Immediate data is the real 
number.  (Not already 2's complimented.)

There are many reason for doing this...

First, the SUB command does not just use the Immediate data addressing 
mode but other modes to get the number.  Just think, you want need to 
run 2's compliment on ever bit of data that used with the SUB command.

Also, self modifying code would not work with the SUB command.

You will need to do the extra work to make a complete SUB command.

By the way, most older 8 bit CPU only had one ALU for both addressing 
and accumulator registers.  When the could put more stuff on a chip, 
they added one or more ALUs for address calculations to speed up 
instructions.  (Less clock states.)

Oh yes, the Great PDP-8 Mini Main Frame computer had NO SUB command. 
Even the 6800 had more instructions and addressing modes.

The good old days when men were men and coders went crazy!

Steve Bjork

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> subtrahend and does addition. 
>
> If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
>
> james 
>   


From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep  2 18:51:01 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:51:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EF378.7050505@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EF378.7050505@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>



Steve

It is not the SUB command that I was querrying. What the main inquiry was if the 
assembler converted a binary number and stored it as a 2's compliment or not.

I used it because if my assumption were true, then that would be the most likely 
command to do it with. There is no way that I know of in logic gates to make a subtractor 
other than by taking the subtrahend and converting it to its 2's complement and then 
add. You can do the same with 10's complementer and then add decimal to do decimal 
subtraction and so forth and so forth. 

james

On 2 Sep 2009 at 15:36, Steve Bjork wrote:

> James,
> 
> As many have pointed out the SUB command's Immediate data is the real 
> number.  (Not already 2's complimented.)
> 
> There are many reason for doing this...
> 
> First, the SUB command does not just use the Immediate data addressing 
> mode but other modes to get the number.  Just think, you want need to 
> run 2's compliment on ever bit of data that used with the SUB command.
> 
> Also, self modifying code would not work with the SUB command.
> 
> You will need to do the extra work to make a complete SUB command.
> 
> By the way, most older 8 bit CPU only had one ALU for both addressing 
> and accumulator registers.  When the could put more stuff on a chip, 
> they added one or more ALUs for address calculations to speed up 
> instructions.  (Less clock states.)
> 
> Oh yes, the Great PDP-8 Mini Main Frame computer had NO SUB command. 
> Even the 6800 had more instructions and addressing modes.
> 
> The good old days when men were men and coders went crazy!
> 
> Steve Bjork
> 
> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> > To the list:
> >
> > I have started looking at two FPGA cores for the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> > 6309 opcodes and stumbled across a potential  issue. As far as I can remember the 
> > Motorola Freeware Assemblers treat subtraction as adding the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend. Also I seem to remember that is how the internal workings of the MC6809 
> > is. There is actually no subtractor but the assemly code has the 2's compliment of the 
> > subtrahend and does addition. 
> >
> > If this is so then, the ALU becomes simpler when doing a FPGA core.
> >
> > james 
> >   
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Wed Sep  2 19:29:14 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:29:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
	<4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <007601ca2c25$2f3f2540$8dbd6fc0$@com>

Looks like you have to sign up again and a password will be emailed to you.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Diego Barizo
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:27 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board

Roger Taylor wrote:
>
> coco3.com will be moving away from the PHP-Nuke disaster content 
> system to a better system that's in use by many commercial and 
> professional sites. The gallery and forum section are integrated with 
> PHP-Nuke, so I have to find a way to deal with this.
>
> The new system has blog features that may double as a "forum" section 
> depending on your perspective. I encourage all to try out the blog 
> posting/commenting features and see if this could possibly replace the 
> forum system.
>
> To make the site more efficient and quicker I'll also be reducing the 
> amount of hogging graphics where they're not necessary.
>
> There'll also be a Downloads section of files that I upload myself, 
> including Books and Manuals, etc.
>
> The idea is to keep all the content we have now but host it from a 
> much better framework/CMS. Work, yes. Again, the move to the new 
> system is far from complete, so this sneak peek might look pretty bare 
> right now.
>
> You'll also notice that I'm now selling a socketed 27xx series EPROM 
> Pak boards with auto-start jumper. Very nice. In fact, this is the 
> Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak board without those components.
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/
>
> I haven't verified how the sign-up process works, so feel free to give 
> it a try and inform me of any issues?
>
> Roger Taylor
Hello Roger.
I like what I can see of the new look, but when I try to sign in, I get 
"Invalid Username".
I checked the information entering it manually in the main coco3 page 
and works OK.
May be is better if we are forced to create new accounts to make sure 
that no security leaks are carried over from the old site?

Diego


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/02/09
05:50:00



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  2 20:18:20 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:18:20 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
	<4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902190451.05680600@coco3.com>

At 04:26 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Roger Taylor wrote:
>>
>>coco3.com will be moving away from the PHP-Nuke disaster content 
>>system to a better system that's in use by many commercial and 
>>professional sites. The gallery and forum section are integrated 
>>with PHP-Nuke, so I have to find a way to deal with this.
>>
>>The new system has blog features that may double as a "forum" 
>>section depending on your perspective. I encourage all to try out 
>>the blog posting/commenting features and see if this could possibly 
>>replace the forum system.
>>
>>To make the site more efficient and quicker I'll also be reducing 
>>the amount of hogging graphics where they're not necessary.
>>
>>There'll also be a Downloads section of files that I upload myself, 
>>including Books and Manuals, etc.
>>
>>The idea is to keep all the content we have now but host it from a 
>>much better framework/CMS. Work, yes. Again, the move to the new 
>>system is far from complete, so this sneak peek might look pretty 
>>bare right now.
>>
>>You'll also notice that I'm now selling a socketed 27xx series 
>>EPROM Pak boards with auto-start jumper. Very nice. In fact, this 
>>is the Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak board without those components.
>>
>>http://www.coco3.com/community/
>>
>>I haven't verified how the sign-up process works, so feel free to 
>>give it a try and inform me of any issues?
>>
>>Roger Taylor
>Hello Roger.
>I like what I can see of the new look, but when I try to sign in, I 
>get "Invalid Username".
>I checked the information entering it manually in the main coco3 
>page and works OK.
>May be is better if we are forced to create new accounts to make 
>sure that no security leaks are carried over from the old site?
>
>Diego

The new system (being edited now) is totally separate from the old, 
so you'll have to register.  I also want to state that even though 
the Nuke system was entered by an unknown entity and appeared to try 
to to manual surgery by deleting a group of known V.I.P. posters, I 
feel that the person got very lucky.. they took my past statements 
that I'd do everything in my power to hang the person responsible for 
the prior attack, and this was a dare to them, a reason to keep 
living and working all night, all day, guessing passwords and poking 
around using web advertised exploits until they got in somehow.  Bots 
have also been known to do the same stunts, but I feel like the 
authors of the various models of PHP-Nuke floating around are tied to 
spammer activity somehow.  They leave these back doors unfixed and 
when you Google for a solution you get mostly people Asking for Help, 
but no Answers from the Nuke teams.  So, I'm moving away from Nuke.

The Forum section is phpBB2 but it's integrated into the Nuke 
framework... so we have the same issue as I did when I got away from 
Invision Power Board and the original forums which had more 
contributions than the current one, but both being stocked with valuable posts.

I do plan to translate all of the original forums and the current 
forums into an XML type flat file for retaining all of those valuable 
posts over the years.  Once the data is "XML'ed", so to speak, I can 
further translate into whatever, be it blog form or whatever.  To 
those who keep worrying about lost posts, I'll bring them back if 
they're in the database backups.. it's just a matter of time.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Wed Sep  2 20:33:37 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:33:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EF378.7050505@bjork-huffman.net>
	<4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4A9F0EE1.3010900@worldnet.att.net>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> 
> Steve
> 
> It is not the SUB command that I was querrying. What the main inquiry was if the 
> assembler converted a binary number and stored it as a 2's compliment or not.
> 
> I used it because if my assumption were true, then that would be the most likely 
> command to do it with. There is no way that I know of in logic gates to make a subtractor 
> other than by taking the subtrahend and converting it to its 2's complement and then 
> add. You can do the same with 10's complementer and then add decimal to do decimal 
> subtraction and so forth and so forth. 
> 
> james
> 

There was a poor example in my first message but regards the assembler 
vs the ALU ....

  ADDA #-1   gives $8B $FF
  SUBA #1    gives $80 $01

and the other pair

  ADDA #1    gives $8B $01
  SUBA #-1   gives $80 $FF

In short, the assembler uses twos complimentary notation but does not 
convert subtractions into additions.


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  2 20:31:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:31:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <007601ca2c25$2f3f2540$8dbd6fc0$@com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
	<4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
	<007601ca2c25$2f3f2540$8dbd6fc0$@com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902192856.05680370@coco3.com>

At 06:29 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Looks like you have to sign up again and a password will be emailed to you.
>
>Tom



Yes, but did you see the Captcha security graphic?
It should appear before posts, commenting, signup, and forgotten 
passwords, etc.  If you didn't, it might have been that I was adding 
it during the time you signed up.

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Wed Sep  2 21:13:28 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:13:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902192856.05680370@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>	<4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>	<007601ca2c25$2f3f2540$8dbd6fc0$@com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090902192856.05680370@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <007701ca2c33$beb752c0$3c25f840$@com>

Oh, I was Captcha'ed alright...  :)

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:31 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board

At 06:29 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Looks like you have to sign up again and a password will be emailed to you.
>
>Tom



Yes, but did you see the Captcha security graphic?
It should appear before posts, commenting, signup, and forgotten 
passwords, etc.  If you didn't, it might have been that I was adding 
it during the time you signed up.

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/02/09
18:03:00



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  2 21:49:26 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:49:26 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com changes and new EPROM Pak board
In-Reply-To: <007701ca2c33$beb752c0$3c25f840$@com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902112626.063eb6d8@coco3.com>
	<4A9EE31B.7010200@adinet.com.uy>
	<007601ca2c25$2f3f2540$8dbd6fc0$@com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090902192856.05680370@coco3.com>
	<007701ca2c33$beb752c0$3c25f840$@com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090902203743.0567e9d0@coco3.com>

At 08:13 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Oh, I was Captcha'ed alright...  :)

Good.

For now, new users get Contributor status and the minute we get the 
first spam I'll re-enable the First Post From User Requires 
Moderation switch.  Even then, I can assign trusted moderators, 
editors, admins to help out.  On top of that, a Lot of filters and 
even a spam checking service can be activated to help keep a clean 
house.  Still, no site on the web is 100% foolproof, so the next time 
you hear a site like MySpace was shut down by a hacker, don't give me 
such a hard time if (over 12 months), one spammer somehow gets 
through. The battle is ongoing and I've never ignored these issues.

Btw, other sites might also use the RSS feed to show the posts and 
comments on their site.



-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep  3 13:40:43 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:40:43 -0500
Subject: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
Message-ID: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>

Has any one measured the actual current flow for the different voltages
the color computer uses? 5V, +/-12V, -8V.
What is the total power draw? Has anyone actually used the CoCo 2/3 as a
laptop with LCD powered separate from the computer?


-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From jdaggett at gate.net  Thu Sep  3 14:36:34 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:36:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9F0EE1.3010900@worldnet.att.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9F0EE1.3010900@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <4AA00CB2.16112.39FFA@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 2 Sep 2009 at 20:33, Robert Gault wrote:

> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > It is not the SUB command that I was querrying. What the main inquiry was if the 
> > assembler converted a binary number and stored it as a 2's compliment or not.
> > 
> > I used it because if my assumption were true, then that would be the most likely 
> > command to do it with. There is no way that I know of in logic gates to make a subtractor 
> > other than by taking the subtrahend and converting it to its 2's complement and then 
> > add. You can do the same with 10's complementer and then add decimal to do decimal 
> > subtraction and so forth and so forth. 
> > 
> > james
> > 
> 
> There was a poor example in my first message but regards the assembler 
> vs the ALU ....
> 
>   ADDA #-1   gives $8B $FF
>   SUBA #1    gives $80 $01
> 
> and the other pair
> 
>   ADDA #1    gives $8B $01
>   SUBA #-1   gives $80 $FF
> 
> In short, the assembler uses twos complimentary notation but does not 
> convert subtractions into additions.
> 

Robert

Thanks. What that tells me is that negative numbers are represented as their 2's 
compliment. 

james




From jdaggett at gate.net  Thu Sep  3 14:50:27 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:50:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
In-Reply-To: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 3 Sep 2009 at 12:40, Brian Goers wrote:

> Has any one measured the actual current flow for the different voltages
> the color computer uses? 5V, +/-12V, -8V.
> What is the total power draw? Has anyone actually used the CoCo 2/3 as a
> laptop with LCD powered separate from the computer?

Brian

>From the technical manual typical draw off of AC mainis about 200 milliamps. That yields 
a power draw of about 24 watts on average. Also from the schematic based on the 
current limit resistor value and the max current spec for the pass transistor about 2.5 
amps draw off the +5 VDC line is safe maximum. That would yield about 13 to 15 watts. 

james


From uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com  Thu Sep  3 21:19:51 2009
From: uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com (uhmgawa)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:19:51 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4AA00CB2.16112.39FFA@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4A9F0EE1.3010900@worldnet.att.net>
	<4AA00CB2.16112.39FFA@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4AA06B37.4060707@third-harmonic.com>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:

>> There was a poor example in my first message but regards the assembler 
>> vs the ALU ....
>>
>>   ADDA #-1   gives $8B $FF
>>   SUBA #1    gives $80 $01
>>
>> and the other pair
>>
>>   ADDA #1    gives $8B $01
>>   SUBA #-1   gives $80 $FF
>>
>> In short, the assembler uses twos complimentary notation but does not 
>> convert subtractions into additions.
>>
> 
> Robert
> 
> Thanks. What that tells me is that negative numbers are represented as their 2's 
> compliment. 

Which intuitively seems the sensible thing for
the assembler to do.  Although I suppose an argument
could be made for the assembler flagging the
negative operand as an error in this situation.

In any case the ALU still interprets the data
as unsigned.  This really boils down to the
disposition of the carry bit.  For example assuming
register A contains 0x80:

ADDA #-1 -> 0x80 + 0xff -> 0x7f (logical result: 0x17f, true carry == 1)

SUBA #1 -> 0x80 - 0x01 -> 0x80 + 0xff -> 0x7f, (logical result: 0x7f, inverted carry == 0)

While the end result in A is the same, in the case
of apparently adding -1 we're actually adding 0xff
which results in treatment of the carry bit opposite
that of a subtract operation.  This can alter the
behavior of subsequent branch and subtract operations.

Other architectures do not invert the carry generated
by a subtract operation and interpret c == 1 into a
subsequent subtract operation as indicating no
borrow had been previously generated.

-- 
uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 01:58:29 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 23:58:29 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4AA06B37.4060707@third-harmonic.com>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<4A9EF6D5.16424.1662AAC@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<4A9F0EE1.3010900@worldnet.att.net>
	<4AA00CB2.16112.39FFA@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<4AA06B37.4060707@third-harmonic.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909032258r5d5e9fa4x2d1b11a1d6df6316@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/3/09, uhmgawa wrote:
> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. What that tells me is that negative numbers are represented as
>> their 2's
>> compliment.
>
> Which intuitively seems the sensible thing for
> the assembler to do.  Although I suppose an argument
> could be made for the assembler flagging the
> negative operand as an error in this situation.
>
> In any case the ALU still interprets the data
> as unsigned.  This really boils down to the
> disposition of the carry bit.

---

Yes, but the Negative and Overflow bits are also set in such a way
that the operation can be interpreted as signed.  That is why we end
up with two different conditional branch mnemonics for each of the
relational tests (such as BLO for unsigned and BLT for signed).

Darren


From tvefoo at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 06:48:11 2009
From: tvefoo at yahoo.com (Tveo Loatouse)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 03:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
Message-ID: <654679.39509.qm@web58103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

>There is actually no sub tractor but,

According to the book: Microprocessor- Microcomputer  Technology by
Frederick F. Driscoll. It says, "In all uPs, subtraction is done by
2's complement arithmetic. If the result is negative, the answer is
in 2's complement form. For example, if the problem is 4 - 7 = -3, the
answer, -3, in 2's complement form is 11111101 (binary). Microprocessors
have instructions that can check the logic state of bit 7, the most
significant bit of the answer. If bit 7 is a logic 0, the answer is
positive; if bit 7 is a logic 1, the answer is negative. Hence, a
positive or negative answer can easily be determined."

tvefoo.


      


From jdaggett at gate.net  Fri Sep  4 14:42:22 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:42:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <654679.39509.qm@web58103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <654679.39509.qm@web58103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA15F8E.29749.174045@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 4 Sep 2009 at 3:48, Tveo Loatouse wrote:

> >There is actually no sub tractor but,
> 
> According to the book: Microprocessor- Microcomputer  Technology by
> Frederick F. Driscoll. It says, "In all uPs, subtraction is done by
> 2's complement arithmetic. If the result is negative, the answer is
> in 2's complement form. For example, if the problem is 4 - 7 = -3, the
> answer, -3, in 2's complement form is 11111101 (binary). Microprocessors
> have instructions that can check the logic state of bit 7, the most
> significant bit of the answer. If bit 7 is a logic 0, the answer is
> positive; if bit 7 is a logic 1, the answer is negative. Hence, a
> positive or negative answer can easily be determined."
> 
> tvefoo.


Correct that all ALUs do subtraction by adding the 2's complement of the subtrahend. 
That I knew. As I stated before, there is no logic circuit that does subtraction. 

Per Computer Engineering hardware Design by M. Morris Mano:

"The subtraction of binary numbers can be done most conveniently by menas of 
complements ... Remember that the subtraction A - B can be done by taking the 2's 
complement of B and adding it to A. The 2's complement can be obtained by taking the 
1's complement and adding one to the least significant bit. "

So subtraction is done by setting the carry bit, invert the B input and add it to the A input 
and you have subtraction. My main concern was whether the assembler did the 
complement and store it in 2's or 1's complement form in the assembler output or left the 
number in binary form. Doing the 2's compliment is easy in logic prior to the adder. 
Simply put XOR gates in front of the B input and use a select bit to set the XOR gates to 
invertors or buffers. Invertors for Subtract and Buffers for Addition. Also in Subtraction 
the carry in bit is set and you have subtraction. Simple and eligant as long as you know 
what is actually inputed from an assembled program. 

james 



From tvefoo at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 11:02:13 2009
From: tvefoo at yahoo.com (Tveo Loatouse)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 08:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Vcc's Break Key
Message-ID: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

What is the key combination on my pc's keyboard for the Break key, and any other special key combinations used in Vcc? In the help file it shows a dialog used to set the pc's keyboard combinations, how is this done?

I need to know the Break Key so I can use EDTASM++

tvefoo.



      


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Sat Sep  5 12:31:29 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:31:29 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Vcc's Break Key
In-Reply-To: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA29261.8090803@worldnet.att.net>

Tveo Loatouse wrote:
> What is the key combination on my pc's keyboard for the Break key, and any other special key combinations used in Vcc? In the help file it shows a dialog used to set the pc's keyboard combinations, how is this done?
> 
> I need to know the Break Key so I can use EDTASM++
> 
> tvefoo.
> 
> 

The BREAK key on a PC is END. This will work with Disk EDTASM+.

The help file seems to apply to older versions of VCC than the latest, 
1.40. There does not appear to be any way to alter key conversions other 
than the BASIC and OS-9 from the menubar/Config/Keyboard.

In any case, questions of this type should be addressed to the author at
vcc6809 at gmail.com



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 12:44:34 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:44:34 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Vcc's Break Key
In-Reply-To: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909050944y168e51f7i4fc92b832b43f793@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/5/09, Tveo Loatouse wrote:
> What is the key combination on my pc's keyboard for the Break key, and any
> other special key combinations used in Vcc? In the help file it shows a
> dialog used to set the pc's keyboard combinations, how is this done?
>
> I need to know the Break Key so I can use EDTASM++
>

---

The END key  works as Break for me.  Another elusive keystroke is
SHIFT-ALT for Basic's Shift-@,

I believe the dialog for keyboard configuration was removed in the
current version.  Unfortunately, the documentation has not been
completely updated along with the software.

Are you sure you want to use EDTASM+ ?  You may find that a
cross-development environment  is a much more productive way to get
things done these days (especially in terms of the editor).

Darren


From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  5 13:39:51 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:39:51 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Multi-pak alternatives
In-Reply-To: <4AA29261.8090803@worldnet.att.net>
References: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<4AA29261.8090803@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W1718F6254832D3942F8ADCE5ED0@phx.gbl>



People,

Are there any commercial alternatives to Multi-pak interface out there?

Thanks

Jorge Machin

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Sep  5 14:44:15 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 14:44:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Multi-pak alternatives
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W1718F6254832D3942F8ADCE5ED0@phx.gbl>
References: <326592.33971.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com><4AA29261.8090803@worldnet.att.net>
	<SNT109-W1718F6254832D3942F8ADCE5ED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6DBB34F650414564ACB1E468710AA36F@Dell3Gig>

You could make your own Y-cable today, but nothing else in "commercial"
production.  However, MPIs are still available now and then on Ebay. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Jorge 
> Renato Machin Ibarra
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 1:40 PM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: [Coco] Multi-pak alternatives
> 
> 
> 
> People,
> 
> Are there any commercial alternatives to Multi-pak interface 
> out there?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jorge Machin
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/produc
> ts/photo-gallery-edit.aspx
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 15:21:37 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] keyboard layout
Message-ID: <144645.34776.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am trying to find a copy of the original CoCo manual from Tandy, that has the keyboard key combinations for all of the type-able characters. I need this in order to understand how the Mess emulator maps the keyboard. Can anyone help? The Mess documentation only states that it emulates the keyboard based on position of the key on the keyboard in the computer being emulated. Since I don't remember all of the key press combinations, it's difficult for me to know which character occurs where on the keyboard.

Can anyone help?

Wayne



      


From tvefoo at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 16:04:49 2009
From: tvefoo at yahoo.com (Tveo Loatouse)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Vcc's Break Key
Message-ID: <757883.65122.qm@web58108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

> The END key  works as Break for me.  Another elusive keystroke is
> SHIFT-ALT for Basic's Shift-@,

Thanks.

> Are you sure you want to use EDTASM+ ?

Yes I'm sure. I was attempting to write subtraction instructions to test and then look at the output from zbug, but I could not find the break key to get out of insert mode.

tvefoo.


      


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Sat Sep  5 16:32:39 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:32:39 -0700
Subject: [Coco] keyboard layout
In-Reply-To: <144645.34776.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <144645.34776.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FE979F527CB94A6D8C5A87D0EBB6EC73@Shasta>

Hi,

Based on an investigatation I did years ago for OS-9.

There are keys that produce multiple characters for one key press.
Some characters cannot be generated.
There are multiple keys that produce the same character.

A real mess trying to fix mess for OS-9.

SHF


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: [Coco] keyboard layout


>I am trying to find a copy of the original CoCo manual from Tandy, that has 
>the keyboard key combinations for all of the type-able characters. I need 
>this in order to understand how the Mess emulator maps the keyboard. Can 
>anyone help? The Mess documentation only states that it emulates the 
>keyboard based on position of the key on the keyboard in the computer being 
>emulated. Since I don't remember all of the key press combinations, it's 
>difficult for me to know which character occurs where on the keyboard.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From dennis-ix at maltedmedia.com  Sat Sep  5 17:48:36 2009
From: dennis-ix at maltedmedia.com (Dennis Bathory-Kitsz)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:48:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Yahoo members
Message-ID: <200909052148.n85Lml8V008616@tv-failover-01.trans-video.net>

Just a FYI so the list doesn't get annoyed questions: I got fatal 
bounce & auto-unsub notices for every one of the Yahoo.com mail users 
at 2:26pm today.

Not sure why Yahoo bounced all the mail.

Dennis














Country Stores book!
<http://www.amazon.com/Country-Stores-Vermont-Dennis-Bathory-kitsz/dp/1596294752/>
"Three Performance Pieces"!
<http://www.lulu.com/content/7343950>
Bathory Opera libretto!
<http://www.lulu.com/content/5649281>
"We Are All Mozart"
<http://maltedmedia.com/waam/>





From daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com  Sat Sep  5 19:11:49 2009
From: daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com (Dave Kelly)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:11:49 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
Message-ID: <4AA2F035.7000101@embarqmail.com>

This was in a weekly newsletter I received around midnight on the 3rd.

Dave


DELIVERY PROBLEMS  We are still having problems with delivery of
the e-magazine to Yahoo! addresses worldwide. For many subscribers
e-mails are either arriving days late or not at all. We are sorry
about this, but the matter is outside our control and we have as
yet been unable to resolve it even after sustained and continuing
effort. If you're affected we can only suggest that you temporarily
subscribe from a different e-mail address or change to reading the
RSS version, which also links to the formatted HTML one. See the
link in Section A below.

-- 
I'm a vulgar old cuss, I fought for every bit of filthy dirt on me, 
don't expect me to sparkle.


From tpreitzel at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  5 19:55:26 2009
From: tpreitzel at hotmail.com (TP Reitzel)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 23:55:26 +0000
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>


We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had recurring problems with regressions, etc. Personally, I just can't deal with it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens the situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do about MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. I've stated as much as the background for our need of  an independent project. Although Vcc is likely still active, it hasn't been updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as well... 


_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009

From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 21:38:38 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 18:38:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
In-Reply-To: <4AA2F035.7000101@embarqmail.com>
References: <4AA2F035.7000101@embarqmail.com>
Message-ID: <336618.55376.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am using Yahoo. I was unsubscribed from this list due to too many bounces. I know that Yahoo is in the process of making many changes to their email handling, so that may be part of the problem. For me, it's enough that Microsoft owns Yahoo. To me, that's all the explanation necessary when it comes to "Why is <insert problem here> happening?".

Wayne




________________________________
From: Dave Kelly <daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com>
To: CoCoList <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:11:49 PM
Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones

This was in a weekly newsletter I received around midnight on the 3rd.

Dave


DELIVERY PROBLEMS  We are still having problems with delivery of
the e-magazine to Yahoo! addresses worldwide. For many subscribers
e-mails are either arriving days late or not at all. We are sorry
about this, but the matter is outside our control and we have as
yet been unable to resolve it even after sustained and continuing
effort. If you're affected we can only suggest that you temporarily
subscribe from a different e-mail address or change to reading the
RSS version, which also links to the formatted HTML one. See the
link in Section A below.

-- I'm a vulgar old cuss, I fought for every bit of filthy dirt on me, don't expect me to sparkle.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep  5 21:47:38 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:47:38 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>

TP Reitzel wrote:
> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had recurring problems with regressions, etc. 

[Stuff Deleted]
>updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented
emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates
>historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as well...

SDL meaning - Simple DirectMedia Layer.

Or is there another meaning to the abbreviation.

> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
can't read them."--Mark Twain


From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Sat Sep  5 21:53:11 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:53:11 +1000
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA31607.9000209@iinet.net.au>

TP Reitzel wrote:

> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had
> recurring problems with regressions, etc. Personally, I just can't deal
> with it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens
> the situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do
> about MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. 

Seriously dude - venting? I'd suggest if you're really unhappy with MESS, 
then you should simply ask for your money back.

> We need a
> portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented emulator for all CoCos whether it
> simply emulates historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features
> as well...

What makes you think that Yet-Another-Coco-Emulator is going to solve the 
problem? If there isn't already someone with the knowledge and the interest 
in getting the MESS driver updated, or Vcc for that matter, then I don't see 
where you'll find someone with the skills and interest in starting a new, 
cross-platform emulator for Coco 1,2 & 3 from scratch.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 22:38:12 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:38:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, TP Reitzel<tpreitzel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had recurring problems with regressions, etc. Personally, I just can't deal with it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens the situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do about MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. I've stated as much as the background for our need of ?an independent project. Although Vcc is likely still active, it hasn't been updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as well...
>

Could you elaborate on exactly what is wrong with MESS?  Have you
submitted bug reports (or better yet patches to fix the problems) to
the developers?  I don't know the team behind MESS, but the open
source projects I do work with always welcome such things.  if there
is a indeed bug that has been fixed but regressed, correcting the
problem is often quite simple once it is identified.

Even if MESS was 50% broken, it would be 50% more complete than some
new emulator.   Rather than fragment a small community, I think the
best results will come from rallying behind existing solutions.

-Aaron


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Sep  6 08:38:24 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:38:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
In-Reply-To: <336618.55376.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4AA2F035.7000101@embarqmail.com>
	<336618.55376.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A1B8AD4F0F8848EB8C09788C852E290B@Dell3Gig>

Maybe Yahoo is just trying to get even for everyone else blocking their spam
clients. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Campbell
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
> 
> I am using Yahoo. I was unsubscribed from this list due to 
> too many bounces. I know that Yahoo is in the process of 
> making many changes to their email handling, so that may be 
> part of the problem. For me, it's enough that Microsoft owns 
> Yahoo. To me, that's all the explanation necessary when it 
> comes to "Why is <insert problem here> happening?".
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Kelly <daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com>
> To: CoCoList <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:11:49 PM
> Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
> 
> This was in a weekly newsletter I received around midnight on the 3rd.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> DELIVERY PROBLEMS  We are still having problems with delivery 
> of the e-magazine to Yahoo! addresses worldwide. For many 
> subscribers e-mails are either arriving days late or not at 
> all. We are sorry about this, but the matter is outside our 
> control and we have as yet been unable to resolve it even 
> after sustained and continuing effort. If you're affected we 
> can only suggest that you temporarily subscribe from a 
> different e-mail address or change to reading the RSS 
> version, which also links to the formatted HTML one. See the 
> link in Section A below.
> 
> -- I'm a vulgar old cuss, I fought for every bit of filthy 
> dirt on me, don't expect me to sparkle.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 09:09:50 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:09:50 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA31607.9000209@iinet.net.au>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA31607.9000209@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <4AA3B49E.6090407@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Mark McDougall wrote:
> TP Reitzel wrote:
> 
>> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had
>> recurring problems with regressions, etc. 

Whilst part of that is MESS (and MAME from which it is derrived), trying 
to be all things to all machines. I've also seen regressions with other 
emulators too.

>>                                           Personally, I just can't deal
>> with it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens
>> the situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do
>> about MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. 
> 
> Seriously dude - venting? I'd suggest if you're really unhappy with 
> MESS, then you should simply ask for your money back.

Indeed, what is your problem with the MESS CoCo driver ?

Whilst I don't want to hear ilogical ranting, any constructive comments 
about MESS or it's failings will be listened to. Though one thing that 
does help is if a fault/bug is reproducable.

Half the problem with fixing faults (and not just with computers), is 
getting a fault report that doen't amount it "IT'S BROKE FIX IT!".

Cheers.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 09:14:45 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:14:45 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA3B5C5.5020909@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> Could you elaborate on exactly what is wrong with MESS?  Have you 
> submitted bug reports (or better yet patches to fix the problems) to 
> the developers?  I don't know the team behind MESS, but the open 
> source projects I do work with always welcome such things.  if there 
> is a indeed bug that has been fixed but regressed, correcting the 
> problem is often quite simple once it is identified.

Well, there's at leat one person on here who has done a reasonable 
amount of work on the CoCo/Dragon driver.........

Yeah the MESS people are more than happy to take submissions, though I 
have occasionally found it hard to get the MAME team to accept 
submissions to the common parts, due to the fact that it could break 
multiple othert drivers. ***

> Even if MESS was 50% broken, it would be 50% more complete than some 
> new emulator.   Rather than fragment a small community, I think the 
> best results will come from rallying behind existing solutions.

Hear Hear.

*** The case in point was the code for the 6821, which at the time 
hadled both port A and port B identically. I had a hard time convincing 
them that the default behavior for port A is that it has internal to the 
chip pullup resistors, which are active in both output and input 
modes... despite pointing them at the Motorola datasheet !

Cheers.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 11:58:20 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] keyboard layout
In-Reply-To: <FE979F527CB94A6D8C5A87D0EBB6EC73@Shasta>
References: <144645.34776.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<FE979F527CB94A6D8C5A87D0EBB6EC73@Shasta>
Message-ID: <518484.26664.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>Based on an investigatation I did years ago for OS-9.

I did something similar back in 89, when I got my CoCo3. I remember finding characters like that. For example, There is a character that looks like a super-scripted diamond shape. It is produced by typing ALT-period. The hex code for it, as far as I know, is $AE, It is also produced if you use $BE, but Basic09 will see each as a different character.


>A real mess trying to fix mess for OS-9.

I agree.I am just trying to re-learn the key sequences so I can better understand the way MESS is applying the keyboard layout. I have found most of the keyboard characters, and MESS does let me alter them, but I haven't looked to see if the changes are saved between launches.

Wayne



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 12:17:08 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 09:17:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

For what it's worth, the MESS emulator is the ONLY CoCo emulator, that I have found so far, that even runs on my laptop. Vcc doesn't, and there are a couple others I found that wouldn't run. They were all written in 16-bit code, and XP Professional running in a 32-bit environment just won't allow those programs to launch.

Are all of the problems I see related to coding errors in MESS? I don't know, but I don't think so. I'm also running NitrOS-9, not OS-9. From what I see, it seems that NitrOS-9's commands still don't have all of the functionality that OS-9's commands did. Then there are the errors. I get many errors that I can't be certain aren't differences between OS-9 and NitrOS-9. I'm not trying to say NitrOS-9 is "bad", but I do remember that it was not equal to OS-9 back when I had my CoCo3, and the author was promising that eventually it would be as bullet-proof as OS-9, and with the functionality in the commands that OS-9 commands had. It doesn't look like it was ever done.

Then there's Basic09 01.01.00. I'm not saying it's buggy, but there are the following facts:

* OS-9 Level II included Basic09 version 1.1
* The version used to get the code for the new version 01.01.00 is a disasm of Basic09 version 1.0, not 1.1 (whatever changed between 1.0 and 1.1 was lost)
* Many of the errors I get in my code are OS-9 errors, not Basic09 errors, even when the statement erroring is an assignment statement.

Are these things a MESS problem?
Are they a NitrOS-9 problem?
Are they a Basic09 problem?

I don't know. The only way I can think of to know is to

* Get a copy of the original OS-9 disk (in .os9 image format, of course) and run it instead of NitrOS-9 (allowing me to run Basic09 1.1 if it's a Level II disk image)
* Get another original CoCo3 and run OS-9 Level II on it (not doable, since I have no spare cash to spend on a system)

I am content to keep working with what I have. It works well enough to get by. If improvements come to MESS or NitrOS-9 or Basic09 01.01.00, I will definitely implement them in my copies.

Wayne


      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 12:29:36 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 12:29:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Dennis - you are not the only ones
In-Reply-To: <A1B8AD4F0F8848EB8C09788C852E290B@Dell3Gig>
References: <4AA2F035.7000101@embarqmail.com>
	<336618.55376.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<A1B8AD4F0F8848EB8C09788C852E290B@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <200909061229.36971.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 06 September 2009, Paul Fitch wrote:
>Maybe Yahoo is just trying to get even for everyone else blocking their
> spam clients.

Maybe.  I run it all through Spamassassin, and anything that rates 5 *'s or 
more goes straight to /dev/null here.  That however does not generate a 
bounce, so yahoo of course has no knowledge of that.

I've fed enough yahoo spam through sa-learn that those posts to this list 
that come from yahoo have earned a smallish spam rating.  Not enough to 
trigger my final rule though. :)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Be careful!  Is it classified?


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Sep  6 12:35:18 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:35:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>
	<157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>

 
Wayne, I run VCC 1.4 on my home XP Professional system (32bit) and on my XP
Home netbook (also 32bit).  With no issues.  I've also not found the utility
set for Nitros to be "less" useful than the stock OS-9 utils.  IMO, they are
much better.  Of course, when compared to the 68k versions, where available,
the OS-9 Lvl 2 utils do have less functionality.  I've always believed it
was a size/space thing.

The previous release of VCC had a modifiable keyboard matrix, but it had
issues.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:17 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
> 
> For what it's worth, the MESS emulator is the ONLY CoCo 
> emulator, that I have found so far, that even runs on my 
> laptop. Vcc doesn't, and there are a couple others I found 
> that wouldn't run. They were all written in 16-bit code, and 
> XP Professional running in a 32-bit environment just won't 
> allow those programs to launch.
> 



From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com  Sun Sep  6 13:16:26 2009
From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:16:26 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <20090906.121626.4784.0.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>

Brian  where do I get a copy of this SDL emulator?

John
 
On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:47:38 -0500 Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>
writes:
> TP Reitzel wrote:
> > We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has 
> had recurring problems with regressions, etc. 
> 
> [Stuff Deleted]
> >updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented
> emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates
> >historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as 
> well...
> 
> SDL meaning - Simple DirectMedia Layer.
> 
> Or is there another meaning to the abbreviation.
> 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
> 
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man 
> who
> can't read them."--Mark Twain
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYc4RaFUTJRCRqjlZB6WtD12IBcLY87qWAnSIlnUwPAzQVJOpig/


From farna at att.net  Sun Sep  6 16:03:57 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:03:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <4AA415AD.8000901@att.net>

Why not go back to an older version of MESS that works well, then pare it down to only emulate the CoCo? It's open source software and can be modified. You could also work with the VCC author on making updates, and there is the Keil emulator also.

Personally, I don't see why updates are that important. The idea of an emulator is to as nearly emulate a CoCo 1/2/3 as possible, not to make an improved machine. If that's what you want to do, however, using an emulator as a base is a good way to go. There are some good inexpensive ITX boards with the Atom and AMD Geode, as well as a PowerPC based chip that would make a wonderful base for a CoCo-like machine that ran OS-9. The only thing is just how compatible can it be? Should be able to make it Level II software compatible with a few minor hacks, but then drivers can be written to intercept output and send it to the appropriate device. 

----------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 23:55:26 +0000
From: TP Reitzel <tpreitzel at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had recurring problems with regressions, etc. Personally, I just can't deal with it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens the situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do about MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. I've stated as much as the background for our need of  an independent project. Although Vcc is likely still active, it hasn't been updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as well... 

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From johnguin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  6 16:24:07 2009
From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 20:24:07 +0000
Subject: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
In-Reply-To: <4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>
	<4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <SNT115-W497F7F4462635586F9A227D9EC0@phx.gbl>


I plugged my Coco3 with nothing connected to it into a Kill-A-Watt meter and it registered 13 watts.

I tried again with an OwlWare disk controller connected and it went to 16 watts.

Right in line with what James computed.

John

> From: jdaggett at gate.net
> To: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net; coco at maltedmedia.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:50:27 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
> 
> On 3 Sep 2009 at 12:40, Brian Goers wrote:
> 
> > Has any one measured the actual current flow for the different voltages
> > the color computer uses? 5V, +/-12V, -8V.
> > What is the total power draw? Has anyone actually used the CoCo 2/3 as a
> > laptop with LCD powered separate from the computer?
> 
> Brian
> 
> >From the technical manual typical draw off of AC mainis about 200 milliamps. That yields 
> a power draw of about 24 watts on average. Also from the schematic based on the 
> current limit resistor value and the max current spec for the pass transistor about 2.5 
> amps draw off the +5 VDC line is safe maximum. That would yield about 13 to 15 watts. 
> 
> james
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 16:40:00 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Yahoo members
In-Reply-To: <200909052148.n85Lml8V008616@tv-failover-01.trans-video.net>
Message-ID: <577585.63553.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Not sure Why Yahoo did the bounce either, as I did have some mail from the list dated before your auto-generated message. I just went to the link and told it to keep sending. Maybe Yahoo had a hiccup in the mail system about that time that triggered it. Just guessing tho.

-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <dennis-ix at maltedmedia.com> wrote:

> From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <dennis-ix at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: [Coco] Yahoo members
> To: "cocoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 4:48 PM
> Just a FYI so the list doesn't get
> annoyed questions: I got fatal bounce & auto-unsub
> notices for every one of the Yahoo.com mail users at 2:26pm
> today.
> 
> Not sure why Yahoo bounced all the mail.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Country Stores book!
> <http://www.amazon.com/Country-Stores-Vermont-Dennis-Bathory-kitsz/dp/1596294752/>
> "Three Performance Pieces"!
> <http://www.lulu.com/content/7343950>
> Bathory Opera libretto!
> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5649281>
> "We Are All Mozart"
> <http://maltedmedia.com/waam/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


      


From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 16:48:26 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <700044.50799.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 11:17 AM

> a couple others I found that wouldn't run. They were all
> written in 16-bit code, and XP Professional running in a
> 32-bit environment just won't allow those programs to
> launch.


Funny, I always thought it was the 64-bit versions of XP and Vista that didn't want to work with any 16-bit code.



      


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Sun Sep  6 16:55:27 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:55:27 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <700044.50799.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700044.50799.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <73F21349-7BAA-43F5-B6FD-16311CEB47ED@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Sep-6-09, at 2:48 PM, Bill Barnes wrote:
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> a couple others I found that wouldn't run. They were all
>> written in 16-bit code, and XP Professional running in a
>> 32-bit environment just won't allow those programs to
>> launch.
>
> Funny, I always thought it was the 64-bit versions of XP and Vista  
> that didn't want to work with any 16-bit code.

Yeah, It is the 64-bit versions of Windows that have no 16-bit  
capabilities.  I especially love it when you have a 32-bit  
application, but the installer for it is 16-bit, so you can't install  
the program on your machine.

Perhaps he's referencing some of the older emulators that rely on DOS  
or other low-level device access not available in newer versions of  
Windows.

-- JP



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 18:11:31 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>
	<157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Paul Fitch wrote:
>Wayne, I run VCC 1.4 on my home XP Professional system (32bit) and on my XP
>Home netbook (also 32bit).  With no issues.  I've also not found the utility
>set for Nitros to be "less" useful than the stock OS-9 utils.  IMO, they are
>much better.  Of course, when compared to the 68k versions, where available,
>the OS-9 Lvl 2 utils do have less functionality.  I've always believed it
>was a size/space thing.

This is very interesting. I assumed Vcc didn't run when I tried it because it was treated by XP the same way all other 16-bit programs I've tried to run were treated. The window closes faster than it opens. Are there any special settings or anything I should know about when installing it? I don't recall seeing anything in the documentation that suggested special settings...

As to NitrOS-9, perhaps it is better than it used to be. Maybe it's just my memory being faulty, but I could swear that many of the basic commands included with OS-9 Level II as having parameter options that are absent in the version of NitrOS-9 I have. Then there's the fact that the .os9 image for the 80-track version of the /dd descriptor doesn't include the /d1 or /d2 descriptors for 80-track drives. I have found nothing on the images supplied that will allow me to use the default descriptors for those drives to build a custom bootfile either.

I would much rather have the original OS-9 level II disk and the development system disk. At least then I would be able to isolate problems as being related to MESS, and not the OS or Basic09.

Wayne


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 18:22:58 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 15:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] error codes
Message-ID: <843347.83903.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

If you're anything like me, you can't remember every explanation for an error code. You also wish you didn't have to look through pdf files of images of pages to find out what the explanation is. To solve this problem, and give me error messages I can digest, I wrote ErrorCodes.

ErrorCodes is a Basic09 utility that returns the standard error message, and the extended message, that is associated with all OS-9/NitrOS-9 system error codes, as well as Basic09 error codes. If anyone wants a copy, email me and I will send you a copy. The archive (ErrorCodes.zip) includes:

ErrorCodes - I-Code module, placed in CMDS
ErrorCodes.DAT - data file, placed in DEFS
ErrorCodes.B09 - the source code
ErrorCodes.txt - the "manual"

The archive size is 7.46K

Wayne


      


From jmurphy at delphiforums.com  Sun Sep  6 17:35:41 2009
From: jmurphy at delphiforums.com (John Murphy)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:35:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <73F21349-7BAA-43F5-B6FD-16311CEB47ED@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <700044.50799.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<73F21349-7BAA-43F5-B6FD-16311CEB47ED@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <9B9CCBE711944867BB00501D8552B22B@PC4>



--------------------------------------------------
From: "J.P. Samson" <coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 4:55 PM


> On Sep-6-09, at 2:48 PM, Bill Barnes wrote:
>> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> a couple others I found that wouldn't run. They were all
>>> written in 16-bit code, and XP Professional running in a
>>> 32-bit environment just won't allow those programs to
>>> launch.
>>
>> Funny, I always thought it was the 64-bit versions of XP and Vista  
>> that didn't want to work with any 16-bit code.
> 
> Yeah, It is the 64-bit versions of Windows that have no 16-bit  
> capabilities.  I especially love it when you have a 32-bit  
> application, but the installer for it is 16-bit, so you can't install  
> the program on your machine.
> 
> Perhaps he's referencing some of the older emulators that rely on DOS  
> or other low-level device access not available in newer versions of  
> Windows.
> 
> -- JP
> 

EMS / XMS   himem.sys, etc 


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 19:23:22 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:23:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Basic09 source code viewing
Message-ID: <773802.25928.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I got used to NetScape Navigator's view source window a long time ago. I always wanted to be able to view Basic09 source in a similar fashion. I have created a syntax file for, and document class in, textpad. If you use textpad, you can create the document class, and install the B09.syn syntax file and you will see this:

textpadB09

If anyone here uses textpad, and wants to see their source this way, email me and I'll send you the archive. It contains the B09.syn syntax file, and a pdf instruction doc to help you install it and modify it.

Wayne


      


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep  6 22:15:31 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:15:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo related mp3 files?
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906210841.063aeab0@coco3.com>

I'm looking for Brother Jeremy's Set The Upgrade Free song if anybody 
has it?  E-mail me a copy?

I'm also looking for any other CoCo MP3 files, be it recorded MUSICA 
files or seminars, etc.  They can be posted as articles in the new 
www.coco3.com/community site by referencing the URL to the MP3 file 
in a message line like this:
[audio:http://url/file.mp3]
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Sun Sep  6 22:48:33 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:48:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>	<157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
	<806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA47481.5010009@worldnet.att.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:

> This is very interesting. I assumed Vcc didn't run when I tried it
> because it was treated by XP the same way all other 16-bit programs
> I've tried to run were treated. The window closes faster than it opens.
> Are there any special settings or anything I should know about when
> installing it? I don't recall seeing anything in the documentation that
> suggested special settings...
> 
> As to NitrOS-9, perhaps it is better than it used to be. Maybe it's just
> my memory being faulty, but I could swear that many of the basic commands
> included with OS-9 Level II as having parameter options that are absent
> in the version of NitrOS-9 I have. Then there's the fact that the .os9
> image for the 80-track version of the /dd descriptor doesn't include the
> /d1 or /d2 descriptors for 80-track drives. I have found nothing on the
> images supplied that will allow me to use the default descriptors for
> those drives to build a custom bootfile either.
> 
> I would much rather have the original OS-9 level II disk and the
> development system disk. At least then I would be able to isolate
> problems as being related to MESS, and not the OS or Basic09.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> http:

Wayne,

Unless you give specific examples which we can test, there is no 
reasonable way to argue the benefits of either OS-9 Level II or versions 
of NitrOS-9. I've used both and have not found any functionality in OS-9 
Level II missing from NitrOS-9.
Recent versions of NitrOS-9 available from Source Forge have significant 
differences in syntax and that could indeed prove a problem until you 
become familiar with the changes.


From lothan at newsguy.com  Sun Sep  6 22:36:59 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net><157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
	<806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>

The Development System is on RTSI in /OS9/OS9_6X09/PROG/DevSys_2_2.lzh.

There's also a file in OS9/OS9_6X09 named cocoos9.dsk that contains Basic09, 
the C compiler, RMA, RLink, RDump, dasm, and dynamite among other things.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:11 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

> Paul Fitch wrote:
>>Wayne, I run VCC 1.4 on my home XP Professional system (32bit) and on my 
>>XP
>>Home netbook (also 32bit).  With no issues.  I've also not found the 
>>utility
>>set for Nitros to be "less" useful than the stock OS-9 utils.  IMO, they 
>>are
>>much better.  Of course, when compared to the 68k versions, where 
>>available,
>>the OS-9 Lvl 2 utils do have less functionality.  I've always believed it
>>was a size/space thing.
>
> This is very interesting. I assumed Vcc didn't run when I tried it because 
> it was treated by XP the same way all other 16-bit programs I've tried to 
> run were treated. The window closes faster than it opens. Are there any 
> special settings or anything I should know about when installing it? I 
> don't recall seeing anything in the documentation that suggested special 
> settings...
>
> As to NitrOS-9, perhaps it is better than it used to be. Maybe it's just 
> my memory being faulty, but I could swear that many of the basic commands 
> included with OS-9 Level II as having parameter options that are absent in 
> the version of NitrOS-9 I have. Then there's the fact that the .os9 image 
> for the 80-track version of the /dd descriptor doesn't include the /d1 or 
> /d2 descriptors for 80-track drives. I have found nothing on the images 
> supplied that will allow me to use the default descriptors for those 
> drives to build a custom bootfile either.
>
> I would much rather have the original OS-9 level II disk and the 
> development system disk. At least then I would be able to isolate problems 
> as being related to MESS, and not the OS or Basic09.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 23:44:33 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 20:44:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, TP Reitzel<tpreitzel at hotmail.com> wrote:
> We need an emulator to replace MESS.

I don't think it's that bad. I think MESS is very stable, and I find it enjoyable to use. There are just instances where the behaviour of the memory allocations are larger than the original 64K page method in the CoCo3 allowed for. While it has not been a problem, I do have to wonder if I'm exceeding the limit the original CoCo2 or 3 had in terms of available memory. If my procedures get too large, they will not run in the original environment. This defeats the purpose of creating the software to begin with. I want my programs to run on an original CoCo2 or CoCo3, whether it has 64K, 128K or 512K of RAM available. They all have the same limitation, and while I never possessed a memory board for the 1M+ sizes, I believe it applies to them as well, and that is the 64K page size limit imposed by the GIME chip.

A program written in Basic09 has a memory limit of approximately 40K. Even with separate files, the total of everything loaded into memory must not exceed 40K for both procedure size and for data requirements. I learned this writing DCom. It's bloat is my sandbox. Again, the memory allocations have not proven to be a problem, so I'm not as concerned about them.

The only improvement I could see would be in wimgtool.exe. It doesn't allow for subdirectory copying. Everything gets written to the root directory. Then I have to go into OS-9 and copy the files to the sub-directory, then delete the copies in the root directory. And this because there is no move command in NitrOS-9, though I thought there was in the original OS-9. I also have to write a modbuster procedure since there is no modbuster command in NitrOS-9.

I honestly don't remember if modbuster was an original tool, or whether it was a procedure I wrote. But I can write one. Unpack is pretty much a modbuster on a different level. Time, and testing on other CoCo systems, whether virtual or actual, will tell how well I accomplish my goal.

Wayne



      


From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep  7 00:33:25 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:33:25 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>

Sort of good news, I've recovered the content of the original 
coco3.com forums just before it was taken offline.  Not the current 
forums, but the first system that gathered thousands of valuable 
messages over the years.

I've trimmed down the SQL file to just the Forum names, Topics, and 
Posts.  These are relational entries where posts contain their Topic 
ID, author, etc. and Topics contain their Forum ID, author, etc.  So 
it's impossible to sort it by naked eye.  Instead, I'm hoping to 
write a Visual Basic .NET program that crunches the data into maybe 
an XML type file that can further be used to import the content into 
the new coco3.com blog system as Posts/Comments retaining the author 
references only, but not physically linked to any certain members of 
coco3.com at this time.  Somewhere in the posts will probably be a 
line mentioning the author's nickname at the time of the preserved 
text, or perhaps their real name.

I can e-mail anyone the SQL file if they think they can process it 
quicker or better than I can into some text file format that's 
decently sorted into Forum->Topic->Posts order:

The 2nd project will be to of course convert the current forums into 
blog posts/comments so everything comes together into one new system 
and format, to be preserved for much longer.....

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 00:08:55 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:08:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200909070008.55337.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 06 September 2009, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, TP Reitzel<tpreitzel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> We need an emulator to replace MESS.
>
>I don't think it's that bad. I think MESS is very stable, and I find it
> enjoyable to use. There are just instances where the behaviour of the
> memory allocations are larger than the original 64K page method in the
> CoCo3 allowed for. While it has not been a problem, I do have to wonder if
> I'm exceeding the limit the original CoCo2 or 3 had in terms of available
> memory. If my procedures get too large, they will not run in the original
> environment. This defeats the purpose of creating the software to begin
> with. I want my programs to run on an original CoCo2 or CoCo3, whether it
> has 64K, 128K or 512K of RAM available. They all have the same limitation,
> and while I never possessed a memory board for the 1M+ sizes, I believe it
> applies to them as well, and that is the 64K page size limit imposed by
> the GIME chip.
>
>A program written in Basic09 has a memory limit of approximately 40K. Even
> with separate files, the total of everything loaded into memory must not
> exceed 40K for both procedure size and for data requirements. I learned
> this writing DCom. It's bloat is my sandbox. Again, the memory allocations
> have not proven to be a problem, so I'm not as concerned about them.
>
>The only improvement I could see would be in wimgtool.exe. It doesn't allow
> for subdirectory copying. Everything gets written to the root directory.
> Then I have to go into OS-9 and copy the files to the sub-directory, then
> delete the copies in the root directory. And this because there is no move
> command in NitrOS-9, though I thought there was in the original OS-9. I
> also have to write a modbuster procedure since there is no modbuster
> command in NitrOS-9.
>
>I honestly don't remember if modbuster was an original tool, or whether it
> was a procedure I wrote. But I can write one. Unpack is pretty much a
> modbuster on a different level. Time, and testing on other CoCo systems,
> whether virtual or actual, will tell how well I accomplish my goal.
>
>Wayne

Modbuster was not an original tool, and there are several other substitutes 
for it, my 'vfy' for one.

Launch it with the -s (and -k too if its track 34 you are splitting) name-of-
file to be split.  I also wrote a track 34 to directory entry tool, so that 
track 34 is then just another file and can be accessed by vfy.  IIRC its 
called kernel2dir or something similar.  Either way it will generate a set of 
files in the directory you are cd'd to that are the individual modules of an 
os9boot file for instance.  The -k switch makes it also save the pre-amble 
and post-amble bytes sequences on each end of a track 34 image as separate 
files.

I don't recall if I built a c library split function into vfy or not, it 
would be relatively easy to do since all clib modules start with $62CD, where 
an os9 module starts with $87CD.  Just change the trigger integer.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 01:10:37 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:10:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909062210h37179a73na2f53aa5bbb7de00@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Wayne Campbell<asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, TP Reitzel<tpreitzel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> We need an emulator to replace MESS.
>
> I don't think it's that bad. I think MESS is very stable, and I find it enjoyable to use. There are just instances where the behaviour of the memory allocations are larger than the original 64K page method in the CoCo3 allowed for. While it has not been a problem, I do have to wonder if I'm

Can you please give specific examples of this?  Are you sure you
haven't confused MESS with Nitros9?  I can't see how an emulator could
cause this, but I want to understand if this is indeed the case.

exceeding the limit the original CoCo2 or 3 had in terms of available
memory. If my procedures get too large, they will not run in the
original environment. This defeats the purpose of creating the
software to begin with. I want my programs to run on an original CoCo2
or CoCo3, whether it has 64K, 128K or 512K of RAM available. They all
have the same limitation, and while I never possessed a memory board
for the 1M+ sizes, I believe it applies to them as well, and that is
the 64K page size limit imposed by the GIME chip.
>

I am concerned about such things myself.  Again, specific examples
would be very helpful, generalizations are not.

Here is a quote from the Nitros9 documentation that I believe may be relevant:

NitrOS-9 Level 2 Memory Specifics
Because NitrOS-9 Level 2 utilizes the Memory Management Unit (MMU)
component of the Color Computer 3, up to 2MB of memory can be supported.
However, each process is still limited to a maximum of 64K of RAM.
Even with this limitation, there is a significant advantage over
NitrOS-9 Level 1.
Every process has its own 64K ?playground.? Even the operating system itself
has its own 64K area. This means that programs do not have to share a single
64K block with each other or the system. Consequently, larger programs are
possible under NitrOS-9 Level 2.
These 64K areas are made up of 8K blocks, the size that is imposed by the MMU
found in the Color Computer 3. NitrOS-9 Level 2 assembles a number of these
8K blocks to provide every process (including the system) its own 64K working
area.

So again I wonder if the memory differences you mention are due to
Nitros9 (and quite normal), or due to MESS as you say?  If you are
simply seeing the additional ram that Nitros9 provides, there is no
problem really, as Nitros9 provides this additional ram on real
hardware as well as in emulators.

-Aaron

> A program written in Basic09 has a memory limit of approximately 40K. Even with separate files, the total of everything loaded into memory must not exceed 40K for both procedure size and for data requirements. I learned this writing DCom. It's bloat is my sandbox. Again, the memory allocations have not proven to be a problem, so I'm not as concerned about them.
>
> The only improvement I could see would be in wimgtool.exe. It doesn't allow for subdirectory copying. Everything gets written to the root directory. Then I have to go into OS-9 and copy the files to the sub-directory, then delete the copies in the root directory. And this because there is no move command in NitrOS-9, though I thought there was in the original OS-9. I also have to write a modbuster procedure since there is no modbuster command in NitrOS-9.
>
> I honestly don't remember if modbuster was an original tool, or whether it was a procedure I wrote. But I can write one. Unpack is pretty much a modbuster on a different level. Time, and testing on other CoCo systems, whether virtual or actual, will tell how well I accomplish my goal.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep  7 01:32:32 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:32:32 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <20090906.121626.4784.0.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>
References: <20090906.121626.4784.0.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4AA49AF0.2010300@sbcglobal.net>

John T Chasteen wrote:
> Brian  where do I get a copy of this SDL emulator?
> 
> John
>  
> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:47:38 -0500 Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>
> writes:
>> TP Reitzel wrote:
>>> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has 
>> had recurring problems with regressions, etc. 
>>
>> [Stuff Deleted]
>>> updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully implemented
>> emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates
>>> historical machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as 
>> well...
>>
>> SDL meaning - Simple DirectMedia Layer.
>>
>> 

I just entered the letters SDL into a seach engine and read one that had
a definition on it.


-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
 who can't read them."--Mark Twain


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 01:43:02 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net><157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
	<806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Lothan wrote:
>The Development System...

I don't know how I missed that before. I'll look again. I have the cocoos9.dsk file. It is a compilation of level 1 and level 2. The level 1 subset does not include Basic09 or RunB. The level 2 CMDS directory contains the level 1 versions of both programs. I would rather have a copy of the original system disk for level 2. I know I may never get one, but I would still prefer it.

The NitrOS-9 image I'm using contains asm, disasm, debug and all of the DEFS files. It does not contain the descriptors or other files found on the development system disk.

Wayne



      


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep  7 01:36:39 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:36:39 -0500
Subject: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
In-Reply-To: <SNT115-W497F7F4462635586F9A227D9EC0@phx.gbl>
References: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>
	<4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<SNT115-W497F7F4462635586F9A227D9EC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA49BE7.4080606@sbcglobal.net>

John Guin wrote:
> I plugged my Coco3 with nothing connected to it into a Kill-A-Watt meter
> and it registered 13 watts.
> 
> I tried again with an OwlWare disk controller connected and it went to
> 16 watts.
> 
> Right in line with what James computed.
> 
> John
> 
>> From: jdaggett at gate.net
>>

>>
>> >From the technical manual typical draw off of AC mainis about 200
> milliamps. That yields
>> a power draw of about 24 watts on average. Also from the schematic
> based on the
>> current limit resistor value and the max current spec for the pass
> transistor about 2.5
>> amps draw off the +5 VDC line is safe maximum. That would yield about
> 13 to 15 watts.
>>
>> james
>>
>> --
>

Thanks for the reply.

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
can't read them."--Mark Twain


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 01:45:37 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <84134.24742.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Roger Taylor wrote:
>I can e-mail anyone the SQL file

How big are the sql files, and how soon do you need the resulting text files?

Wayne



      


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Mon Sep  7 02:14:19 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:14:19 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net><157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig><806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>
	<566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <72AB7EF529F84E19BF8AEE61759C9754@Shasta>

Hi,

Look in the
ftp://www.rtsi.com/RSDOS/incoming/cocodudes%20upload/coco%20stuff/dsk%20files/

For the original OS-9 Disks.

I think that there are other copies in RSDOS/incoming, look around.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator


> Lothan wrote:
>>The Development System...
>
> I don't know how I missed that before. I'll look again. I have the
> cocoos9.dsk file. It is a compilation of level 1 and level 2. The level 1
> subset does not include Basic09 or RunB. The level 2 CMDS directory
> contains the level 1 versions of both programs. I would rather have a copy
> of the original system disk for level 2. I know I may never get one, but I
> would still prefer it.
>
> The NitrOS-9 image I'm using contains asm, disasm, debug and all of the
> DEFS files. It does not contain the descriptors or other files found on
> the development system disk.
>
> Wayne



From mrspock12 at juno.com  Mon Sep  7 06:14:27 2009
From: mrspock12 at juno.com (mrspock12 at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:14:27 GMT
Subject: [Coco] 2's compliment
Message-ID: <20090907.061427.7252.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

just use the SUB command.

the assembler generates the SUB opcode which will be used by the processor.  the processor will generate the 2's complement of the 2nd operand and add it to the first operand.  the assembler doesn't have to do any math for you.  all it has to do is generate the opcodes.  same goes for the MUL instruction.  multiplies are performed by successive addition of the first operand to itself the number of times indicated by the second operand;  but still, it is done internally by the processor--not by the assembler.

____________________________________________________________
The Art Institutes
Earn a graphic design degree. Find a location near you today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=HqAL0B_AiEq8B79KGSjoPQAAJz2MGlx2Pi3jwjncgcBXdehhAAQAAAAFAAAAABsvXT4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEEkAAAAAA==


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 08:33:15 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 05:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?
In-Reply-To: <4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9FFF9B.9080302@sbcglobal.net>
	<4AA00FF3.19424.1058C0@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <433460.46302.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message ----
From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
To: Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 1:50:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] How much power does the Color Computer use?

On 3 Sep 2009 at 12:40, Brian Goers wrote:

> Has any one measured the actual current flow for the different voltages
> the color computer uses? 5V, +/-12V, -8V.
> What is the total power draw? Has anyone actually used the CoCo 2/3 as a
> laptop with LCD powered separate from the computer?

Brian

>From the technical manual typical draw off of AC mainis about 200 milliamps. That yields 
a power draw of about 24 watts on average. Also from the schematic based on the 
current limit resistor value and the max current spec for the pass transistor about 2.5 
amps draw off the +5 VDC line is safe maximum. That would yield about 13 to 15 watts. 
>james

--


I measured it when I converted a CC3 to run off 12vdc. 
I didn't measure the 5v or 8v current individually though.
The total draw for the CC3 by itself at 12vdc (from memory) is about .78A..
Once I added the slimline FDD (5v) and controller, it rose to about 1.2A.

Although I didn't measure it, looking at the 8v circuit, it looks like there's
very little load there and I had no issue connecting a 12v pentium fan to it.
That dropped fan noise from a loud whisper  to virtually inaudible.

I think I posted more accurate data at the time if you search this forum.
Would have been around 12/04.

Bob


      


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Mon Sep  7 08:50:44 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:50:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> 
> I don't think it's that bad. I think MESS is very stable, and I find it
> enjoyable to use. There are just instances where the behaviour of the
> memory allocations are larger than the original 64K page method in the
> CoCo3 allowed for. While it has not been a problem, I do have to wonder
> if I'm exceeding the limit the original CoCo2 or 3 had in terms of
> available memory. If my procedures get too large, they will not run in the
> original environment. This defeats the purpose of creating the software to
> begin with. I want my programs to run on an original CoCo2 or CoCo3,
> whether it has 64K, 128K or 512K of RAM available. They all have the same
> limitation, and while I never possessed a memory board for the 1M+ sizes,
> I believe it applies to them as well, and that is the 64K page size limit
> imposed by the GIME chip.
> 

The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000 
byte chunks.

Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory. 
Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk 
as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit.
OS-9 is written to make this simple. Even so, this can also be 
accomplished under the Basic ROMs. It certainly is harder under Basic, 
but it is even possible to pass variables between program modules.


From farna at att.net  Mon Sep  7 09:23:44 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:23:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Yahoo members
Message-ID: <4AA50960.1080206@att.net>

I don't know what Yahoo's problem is either, but they killed my entire account. I don't use Yahoo mail, but had an account so I could sign into a couple groups. Went to post something this weekend and my account was gone. Tried to retrieve my user name through the site and it told me they had no record of my alternate e-mail -- the one I've used for years! I FINALLY found a site where I could actually send someone an e-mail. I hate all these web based companies who hide their e-mail and phone support contacts -- make you go through multiple "self-help" databases/wizards/etc. first, then with a lot of diligent looking you can find an actual contact address/phone number. Yahoo and AT&T both are that way.  I'd already searched around for an answer and found none. I know they want you to try first, but they don't need to make is so $%^^^^%6  hard to actually contact a PERSON!! 

--------
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Barnes <da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com>

Not sure Why Yahoo did the bounce either, as I did have some mail from the list dated before your auto-generated message. I just went to the link and told it to keep sending. Maybe Yahoo had a hiccup in the mail system about that time that triggered it. Just guessing tho.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From spam_proof at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 09:26:22 2009
From: spam_proof at verizon.net (Aaron Banerjee)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:26:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
Message-ID: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>


All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to  
figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming  
environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we  
happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions  
no matter what.

Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling  
loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my  
colleagues.

Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less  
maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism  
(which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance  
or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it  
is going....

Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while  
programming?

                           - Aaron


From farna at att.net  Mon Sep  7 09:30:57 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:30:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <4AA50B11.90201@att.net>

Are you positive you're not running a 64 bit OS? Could be that, but then again some of the laptop chip sets are a lot more picky than desktop versions. Most of the newer ones are closer to the same, but some are still just a wee bit different and drivers occasionally have trouble with them. I still recall a number of 486 laptops that had proprietary chip sets in them, some programs just wouldn't work at all! I couldn't get the Keil DOS emulator to run on an old HP Omnibook (6000?) at all because of the chip set used in it -- something odd about the display. 

You must be thinking about an older version of Nitros! Most OS-9 users have switched to Nitros, though there are still a few who haven't for one reason or another. It's pretty robust now, though some of the commands and drivers are slightly different than OS-9. 

I hope someone does get you a copy of those disks if you're going to run them to track down issues with MESS. I don't use it, but from the recent complaints you'd be doing the CoCo community a service! 

---------
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>

This is very interesting. I assumed Vcc didn't run when I tried it because it was treated by XP the same way all other 16-bit programs I've tried to run were treated. The window closes faster than it opens. Are there any special settings or anything I should know about when installing it? I don't recall seeing anything in the documentation that suggested special settings...

As to NitrOS-9, perhaps it is better than it used to be. Maybe it's just my memory being faulty, but I could swear that many of the basic commands included with OS-9 Level II as having parameter options that are absent in the version of NitrOS-9 I have. Then there's the fact that the .os9 image for the 80-track version of the /dd descriptor doesn't include the /d1 or /d2 descriptors for 80-track drives. I have found nothing on the images supplied that will allow me to use the default descriptors for those drives to build a custom bootfile either.

I would much rather have the original OS-9 level II disk and the development system disk. At least then I would be able to isolate problems as being related to MESS, and not the OS or Basic09.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From cwgordon at carolina.rr.com  Mon Sep  7 10:03:54 2009
From: cwgordon at carolina.rr.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:03:54 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca2fc4$099cd8d0$1cd68a70$@rr.com>

I'd like to try (but by all means don't stop on my account), but I cannot
guarantee that I can do anything with it.

Email to me if you like.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Taylor
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 12:33 AM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007

...\
... > Clipped to save space
.../

I can e-mail anyone the SQL file if they think they can process it 
quicker or better than I can into some text file format that's 
decently sorted into Forum->Topic->Posts order:

...


Roger Taylor



From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Mon Sep  7 10:44:44 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:44:44 +1000
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4AA51C5C.8080401@iinet.net.au>

Aaron Banerjee wrote:

> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?

At uni we were introduced to programming using Pascal, and in those days 
"GOTO" was a 4-letter word. I graduated to C and for many years it was 
drummed into me that the aforementioned was to be avoided at all costs.

To this day, you could probably count the number of times I've used "GOTO" 
(in C) on one hand. At one point I was even resorting to using a big "if 
(1)" statement with "break"'s littered within for exiting on error 
conditions. I thought it was clever - until I realised that (a) it didn't 
work with nested conditional structures (for,while,etc) and (b) it was 
actually _clearer_ to the reader using "goto"!

[Of course this particular scenario is somewhat moot now with proper 
exception handling in modern languages, but that's beside the point.]

I've learned that there's many ways to skin a cat, some better than others, 
but to say "never" is probably foolish (with one exception - I'll _never_ 
use Java for anything!). OK, 2 exceptions - add C# to that list.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Mon Sep  7 11:47:30 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:47:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4AA52B12.3040404@worldnet.att.net>

Aaron Banerjee wrote:
> 
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to 
> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming 
> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we 
> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no 
> matter what.
> 
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) 
> in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
> 
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less 
> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism 
> (which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or 
> exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it is 
> going....
> 
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
> 
>                           - Aaron
> 

This type of code is usually referred to as spaghetti code with all the 
snarls implied in the adjective.

The "main" academic objection in most languages probably is that 
students typically leave loops via a GOTO. That can be a disaster in 
some languages as the loop structure is not removed.


From n6il at ocs.net  Mon Sep  7 11:42:48 2009
From: n6il at ocs.net (Michael Furman)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 08:42:48 -0700
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA51C5C.8080401@iinet.net.au>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA51C5C.8080401@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <E470E616-D715-4633-B7BF-180892420737@ocs.net>


On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Mark McDougall wrote:

> Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while  
>> programming?
>
> At uni we were introduced to programming using Pascal, and in those  
> days "GOTO" was a 4-letter word. I graduated to C and for many years  
> it was drummed into me that the aforementioned was to be avoided at  
> all costs.
>
> To this day, you could probably count the number of times I've used  
> "GOTO" (in C) on one hand. At one point I was even resorting to  
> using a big "if (1)" statement with "break"'s littered within for  
> exiting on error conditions. I thought it was clever - until I  
> realised that (a) it didn't work with nested conditional structures  
> (for,while,etc) and (b) it was actually _clearer_ to the reader  
> using "goto"!
>
> [Of course this particular scenario is somewhat moot now with proper  
> exception handling in modern languages, but that's beside the point.]
>
> I've learned that there's many ways to skin a cat, some better than  
> others, but to say "never" is probably foolish (with one exception -  
> I'll _never_ use Java for anything!). OK, 2 exceptions - add C# to  
> that list.
>
> Regards,
>

I happen to have copies of Dijkstra's original letters to  
Communications of the ACM on this subject.  They are interesting  
reads, even if dated:

Read this first: http://www.ocs.net/~n6il/dij68-2.pdf  "Go To  
Statement Considered Harmful"
Then this: http://www.ocs.net/~n6il/dij68.pdf "Go To Statement  
Reconsidered"


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 11:57:30 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 08:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <72AB7EF529F84E19BF8AEE61759C9754@Shasta>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net><157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig><806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>
	<566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<72AB7EF529F84E19BF8AEE61759C9754@Shasta>
Message-ID: <387447.73306.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank you!:) Now I have OS-9. Maybe I can relearn what I knew about it, and then maybe I'll be ready for NitrOS-9 and 6309. For now, good old OS-9 Level II will do. And I can finally work with a hd image, as soon as I build a custom OS9Boot file.

Thanks again, Stephen.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Stephen H. Fischer <SFischer1 at Mindspring.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 11:14:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

Hi,

Look in the
ftp://www.rtsi.com/RSDOS/incoming/cocodudes%20upload/coco%20stuff/dsk%20files/

For the original OS-9 Disks.

I think that there are other copies in RSDOS/incoming, look around.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator


> Lothan wrote:
>>The Development System...
>
> I don't know how I missed that before. I'll look again. I have the
> cocoos9.dsk file. It is a compilation of level 1 and level 2. The level 1
> subset does not include Basic09 or RunB. The level 2 CMDS directory
> contains the level 1 versions of both programs. I would rather have a copy
> of the original system disk for level 2. I know I may never get one, but I
> would still prefer it.
>
> The NitrOS-9 image I'm using contains asm, disasm, debug and all of the
> DEFS files. It does not contain the descriptors or other files found on
> the development system disk.
>
> Wayne


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep  7 11:56:27 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:56:27 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>

Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP or BRA command in Assembly??? I 
have used JMP and BRA commands many times in Assembly programs.

John Donaldson





Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to 
> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming 
> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we 
> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions 
> no matter what.
>
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling 
> loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my 
> colleagues.
>
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less 
> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism 
> (which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance 
> or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it 
> is going....
>
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while 
> programming?
>
>                           - Aaron
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


-- 



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 12:27:34 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909062210h37179a73na2f53aa5bbb7de00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640909062210h37179a73na2f53aa5bbb7de00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <669518.2341.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I just woke, so I'm not quite in the code-mode yet. However, I've been thinking alot about this. As I've said in other posts, I can't be sure if what I'm seeing is "normal", or if it is something being miscalculated in the emulator (first step), something miscalculated by NitrOS-9 (second step), or if it's Basic09 (third step). I know that mfree from the command line shows me memory allocations all the way up to 512K (the ram setting in the emulator for the 6809 CoCo3 roms I have). As I recall, the original OS-9 Level II displayed memory allocations up to the 64K limit. Everything above that was in a separate line, as a single block.

Basic09 had approximately 40K of workspace in the original version under Level II. Once you got to about 36-38K, you would start to encounter 43 errors (unknown procedure) when running external machine language subroutines, like Inkey or SysCall. If I open the Basic09 I'm using under NitrOS-9 with over 23K, nothing runs and I get constant 43 errors.

The 6809/6309 is a 8-bit processor. It cannot, by itself, see more than one 64K "page" of memory at a time. The GIME (MMU), allowed multiple pages to exist, and swapped them in and out of the processor's "view". This means all other pages are suspended while the processor deals with the current page. OS-9 allows users to access the other pages through the use of processes, allowing the other pages to get in a clock cycle. This way the other processes can continue running in the background.

You still cannot allow a program to be larger than it's workspace size. You have to break up the program into pieces, and give each piece a separate page to run in. I never got that far in my programming, though I got close with the original DCom.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
>
Can you please give specific examples of this?  Are you sure you
haven't confused MESS with Nitros9?  I can't see how an emulator could
cause this, but I want to understand if this is indeed the case.

>
Here is a quote from the Nitros9 documentation that I believe may be relevant:

NitrOS-9 Level 2 Memory Specifics
Because NitrOS-9 Level 2 utilizes the Memory Management Unit (MMU)
component of the Color Computer 3, up to 2MB of memory can be supported.
However, each process is still limited to a maximum of 64K of RAM.
Even with this limitation, there is a significant advantage over
NitrOS-9 Level 1.
Every process has its own 64K ?playground.? Even the operating system itself
has its own 64K area. This means that programs do not have to share a single
64K block with each other or the system. Consequently, larger programs are
possible under NitrOS-9 Level 2.
These 64K areas are made up of 8K blocks, the size that is imposed by the MMU
found in the Color Computer 3. NitrOS-9 Level 2 assembles a number of these
8K blocks to provide every process (including the system) its own 64K working
area.


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 12:31:51 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Basic09 source code viewing
In-Reply-To: <773802.25928.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <773802.25928.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <336057.6132.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

OK. I see that links are stripped out. The url to the image I was trying to display is:

http://3dcrystal.ff12maps.com/Images/textpadB09.PNG




________________________________
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 4:23:22 PM
Subject: [Coco] Basic09 source code viewing

I got used to NetScape Navigator's view source window a long time ago. I always wanted to be able to view Basic09 source in a similar fashion. I have created a syntax file for, and document class in, textpad. If you use textpad, you can create the document class, and install the B09.syn syntax file and you will see this:

textpadB09

If anyone here uses textpad, and wants to see their source this way, email me and I'll send you the archive. It contains the B09.syn syntax file, and a pdf instruction doc to help you install it and modify it.

Wayne


      

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 12:35:30 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:35:30 +0100
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20090907173530.16532ibl4bnduz40@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Quoting John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net>:

> Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP or BRA command in Assembly???  
> I have used JMP and BRA commands many times in Assembly programs.

Indeed and I have seen some big piles of spagetti in assembler  
programs too....

Phill.


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 13:04:15 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <619502.28620.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

 just remembered. The one proof that something is different. DCom is so big that it was divided into 5 files. The main file, DCom, stayed resident, while the other parts were loaded into memory, one at a time, and executed. This was how I kept it in one 40K workspace. I wasn't ready to try using paging yet. I may be more ready now, but I wasn't then.


Anyway, when I first ran MESS, I was able to load all of the parts into memory, without creating any new pages or windows, and it ran. It shouldn't have. It shouldn't have loaded more than DCom and one of the part files. It should have given me a memory error while loading the second part file. It didn't. A feature of NitrOS-9? A "bug" in MESS? I don't know.

Wayne


      


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Mon Sep  7 13:33:17 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <E470E616-D715-4633-B7BF-180892420737@ocs.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA51C5C.8080401@iinet.net.au>
	<E470E616-D715-4633-B7BF-180892420737@ocs.net>
Message-ID: <BA36E872-1C58-4EB8-BA23-572A01D96CA5@tee-boy.com>

On a related note, I found this article from Dijkstra's on programming  
languages quite humorous:

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/ewd498.html


On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Michael Furman wrote:

>
> On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Mark McDougall wrote:
>
>> Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while  
>>> programming?
>>
>> At uni we were introduced to programming using Pascal, and in those  
>> days "GOTO" was a 4-letter word. I graduated to C and for many  
>> years it was drummed into me that the aforementioned was to be  
>> avoided at all costs.
>>
>> To this day, you could probably count the number of times I've used  
>> "GOTO" (in C) on one hand. At one point I was even resorting to  
>> using a big "if (1)" statement with "break"'s littered within for  
>> exiting on error conditions. I thought it was clever - until I  
>> realised that (a) it didn't work with nested conditional structures  
>> (for,while,etc) and (b) it was actually _clearer_ to the reader  
>> using "goto"!
>>
>> [Of course this particular scenario is somewhat moot now with  
>> proper exception handling in modern languages, but that's beside  
>> the point.]
>>
>> I've learned that there's many ways to skin a cat, some better than  
>> others, but to say "never" is probably foolish (with one exception  
>> - I'll _never_ use Java for anything!). OK, 2 exceptions - add C#  
>> to that list.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
> I happen to have copies of Dijkstra's original letters to  
> Communications of the ACM on this subject.  They are interesting  
> reads, even if dated:
>
> Read this first: http://www.ocs.net/~n6il/dij68-2.pdf  "Go To  
> Statement Considered Harmful"
> Then this: http://www.ocs.net/~n6il/dij68.pdf "Go To Statement  
> Reconsidered"
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 14:15:18 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:15:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <619502.28620.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <619502.28620.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909071115m1669613bmd011e3943c476195@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Wayne Campbell<asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ?just remembered. The one proof that something is different. DCom is so big that it was divided into 5 files. The main file, DCom, stayed resident, while the other parts were loaded into memory, one at a time, and executed. This was how I kept it in one 40K workspace. I wasn't ready to try using paging yet. I may be more ready now, but I wasn't then.
>
>
> Anyway, when I first ran MESS, I was able to load all of the parts into memory, without creating any new pages or windows, and it ran. It shouldn't have. It shouldn't have loaded more than DCom and one of the part files. It should have given me a memory error while loading the second part file. It didn't. A feature of NitrOS-9? A "bug" in MESS? I don't know.
>

Well, that is the question.  I suspect its just a difference in
Nitros9 and would behave the same on a real coco, but I'd hate to find
out otherwise as I am doing a project mostly under MESS and don't want
to find out down the road than it won't work on real hardware.  I do
have a coco here that I use for testing now and then, so far I haven't
seen any differences.  If you want to send me some files, I'd be happy
to try a procedure on real hardware and let you know if it behaves
differently.




> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From lothan at newsguy.com  Mon Sep  7 14:50:08 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:50:08 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090906231349.061994d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <ECAE934C51E440BFB7351C5C42DA4843@Crossfire>

If you send me the SQL file, I'll see what I can do with it and may even be 
able to get SQL to generate an XML schema on its own.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 12:33 AM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums up to 2007

> Sort of good news, I've recovered the content of the original coco3.com 
> forums just before it was taken offline.  Not the current forums, but the 
> first system that gathered thousands of valuable messages over the years.
>
> I've trimmed down the SQL file to just the Forum names, Topics, and Posts. 
> These are relational entries where posts contain their Topic ID, author, 
> etc. and Topics contain their Forum ID, author, etc.  So it's impossible 
> to sort it by naked eye.  Instead, I'm hoping to write a Visual Basic .NET 
> program that crunches the data into maybe an XML type file that can 
> further be used to import the content into the new coco3.com blog system 
> as Posts/Comments retaining the author references only, but not physically 
> linked to any certain members of coco3.com at this time.  Somewhere in the 
> posts will probably be a line mentioning the author's nickname at the time 
> of the preserved text, or perhaps their real name.
>
> I can e-mail anyone the SQL file if they think they can process it quicker 
> or better than I can into some text file format that's decently sorted 
> into Forum->Topic->Posts order:
>
> The 2nd project will be to of course convert the current forums into blog 
> posts/comments so everything comes together into one new system and 
> format, to be preserved for much longer.....
>
> -- 
> Roger Taylor
>
> http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From lothan at newsguy.com  Mon Sep  7 14:58:22 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:58:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net><157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig><806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><A92B0512BA724488BBF3570FF1361328@Crossfire>
	<566506.22924.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C4211A8A631F438A98F910A817370D16@Crossfire>

I remember finding an original OS-9 disk on the 'net some time back, but it 
was a year or more ago so I can't remember where I found it or whether it 
was Level 1 or Level 2. I thought it was on RTSI in a folder named 'dsk 
images', but I saw no such folder on RTSI when I looked yesterday.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:43 AM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

> Lothan wrote:
>>The Development System...
>
> I don't know how I missed that before. I'll look again. I have the 
> cocoos9.dsk file. It is a compilation of level 1 and level 2. The level 1 
> subset does not include Basic09 or RunB. The level 2 CMDS directory 
> contains the level 1 versions of both programs. I would rather have a copy 
> of the original system disk for level 2. I know I may never get one, but I 
> would still prefer it.
>
> The NitrOS-9 image I'm using contains asm, disasm, debug and all of the 
> DEFS files. It does not contain the descriptors or other files found on 
> the development system disk.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 15:25:01 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909071115m1669613bmd011e3943c476195@mail.gmail.com>
References: <619502.28620.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640909071115m1669613bmd011e3943c476195@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <847060.80065.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>

Well, that is the question.  I suspect its just a difference in
Nitros9 and would behave the same on a real coco, but I'd hate to find
out otherwise as I am doing a project mostly under MESS and don't want
to find out down the road than it won't work on real hardware.  I do
have a coco here that I use for testing now and then, so far I haven't
seen any differences.  If you want to send me some files, I'd be happy
to try a procedure on real hardware and let you know if it behaves
differently.

So far, unpack is loading and running in 23K of workspace. I'm not sure how much more code I will be adding to it, but I'm suspecting that the resulting packed program will run easily in the 40K available. I'll know more as I get more code written.

DCom4 will be the one. It is going to be designed to give you an interface that allows you to make modifications to the source output from unpack. Because it will be loading the data from the files generated by unpack into memory buffers, I will be needing to see how it operates on the original hardware. I'm still a distance away from DCom4. I'll let you know. Also, I am documenting everything I learn about how Basic09 creates and interprets I-Code. As I learn more, I am able to figure out a few tricks that reduce size and increase speed. I am also learning the limitations of I-Code. I am finding that certain kinds of data cannot be passed as a parameter without problems. In particular, record fields. It seems that passing a field as a parameter does not work the way I thought it should.

Wayne



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 15:29:06 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <420892.27307.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I do not believe that the use of GOTO is bad or wrong. It is the same as a BRA or a JMP, just as GOSUB is the same as BSR and JSR. All either does is establish an instruction branch, with the subroutine version requiring a return (RTS).

It is the old use of GOTO by some BASIC programmers in an attempt to make their code difficult to figure out that gave GOTO a bad name. In its place, and with proper use, GOTO can make code smaller and easier to read.

Wayne




________________________________
From: John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 8:56:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability

Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP or BRA command in Assembly??? I have used JMP and BRA commands many times in Assembly programs.

John Donaldson





Aaron Banerjee wrote:
> 
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no matter what.
> 
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
> 
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it is going....
> 
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
> 
>                           - Aaron
> 
> -- Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- 

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 15:45:35 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time. DCom was written in the modular fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and used by it was contained in disk files.

What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get different parts running in different pages and communicating between them. It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows the program down significantly.

As it turns out, writing unpack has proven that much of the slowdown was just from the backward way I wrote the original DCom. Unpack already does most of what DCom did, with fewer procedures, and is much smaller, more efficient and faster. But it still relies on disk files, and I know that these files will slow it down on a real CoCo3.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:50:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

> The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000 byte chunks.

Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory. Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit.
OS-9 is written to make this simple. Even so, this can also be accomplished under the Basic ROMs. It certainly is harder under Basic, but it is even possible to pass variables between program modules.


      


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 15:45:01 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:45:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909071245t1cc74b70j47029fa190dab519@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Aaron Banerjee<spam_proof at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to figure
> out code containing GOTO statements. ?In a recent programming environment I
> was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we happened to be
> programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no matter what.
>
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in
> a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
>
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which,
> while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or
> exception-based program control. ?At least GOTO tells you where it is
> going....
>
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
>

I had an instructor years ago who liked to insist that GOTOs were
basically the root of all evil.
I had a feeling that he was wrong, but I didn't have the experience
(or cojones) to make an argument in GOTO's defense.  If only I had
read Donald Knuth's excellent article back then...

http://pplab.snu.ac.kr/courses/adv_pl05/papers/p261-knuth.pdf

This is the most well reasoned opinion on GOTO I have read.  Mr. Knuth
is one hell of a smart guy (I am still struggling my way through his
"Art of Programming" books).  In a nutshell, people who forbid the
GOTO are just as silly as those who use them when they are not needed.

-(another) Aaron

> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Aaron
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From t.fadden at cox.net  Mon Sep  7 15:59:17 2009
From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:59:17 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA56615.7040709@cox.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time. DCom was written in the modular fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and used by it was contained in disk files.
>
> What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get different parts running in different pages and communicating between them. It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows the program down significantly.
>
> As it turns out, writing unpack has proven that much of the slowdown was just from the backward way I wrote the original DCom. Unpack already does most of what DCom did, with fewer procedures, and is much smaller, more efficient and faster. But it still relies on disk files, and I know that these files will slow it down on a real CoCo3.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:50:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
>
>   
>> The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000 byte chunks.
>>     
>
> Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory. Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit.
> OS-9 is written to make this simple. Even so, this can also be accomplished under the Basic ROMs. It certainly is harder under Basic, but it is even possible to pass variables between program modules.
>
>
>       
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>   
Perhaps, investigate on how the "Ram Disk" software works, and 
incorporate that into your program.  That would be much faster than a 
normal disk. I don't have the knowledge on how these work, but do know 
they exist, and go way beyond the 64k limit.  I have had hard disk 
systems since the beginning for OS9, and swapping in and out modules 
wasn't that big of a deal.

Tim Fadden


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 16:22:47 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA56615.7040709@cox.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AA56615.7040709@cox.net>
Message-ID: <736772.8204.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Tim Fadden wrote:

>  
Perhaps, investigate on how the "Ram Disk" software works, and 
incorporate that into your program.  That would be much faster than a 
normal disk. I don't have the knowledge on how these work, but do know 
they exist, and go way beyond the 64k limit.  I have had hard disk 
systems since the beginning for OS9, and swapping in and out modules 
wasn't that big of a deal.

In DCom's documentation, I recommended using the RAM disk to speed things up. It did an excellent job.

Wayne



      


From rbihler at msn.com  Mon Sep  7 16:30:03 2009
From: rbihler at msn.com (Ron Bihler)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:30:03 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP99B729F273C3F3C00A29E6AFEB0@phx.gbl>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time. DCom was written in the modular fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and used by it was contained in disk files.
>
> What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get different parts running in different pages and communicating between them. It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows the program down significantly.
>
> As it turns out, writing unpack has proven that much of the slowdown was just from the backward way I wrote the original DCom. Unpack already does most of what DCom did, with fewer procedures, and is much smaller, more efficient and faster. But it still relies on disk files, and I know that these files will slow it down on a real CoCo3.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:50:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
>
>   
>> The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000 byte chunks.
>>     
>
> Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory. Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit.
> OS-9 is written to make this simple. Even so, this can also be accomplished under the Basic ROMs. It certainly is harder under Basic, but it is even possible to pass variables between program modules.
>
>
>       
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>   
Wayne,
With RiBBS it was recommended that one uses the Ram disk for common 
files and procedures that where used often.  The biggest issue ran into 
was the 8k page breaks, it came down to merging several routines 
together to take advantage of the 8K boundaries.  This was one of the 
biggest issues I ran into.  Due to the size of the program it became a 
game on what I could move to a different procedure and what I could 
combine.  Now granted seeing some of the code (thanks to unpack) it sure 
could have been done better.  The age old problem of adding and adding 
and not doing a rewrite it tends to bloat the program.

I am assuming mess handles the ram disk the same way, it looks like a 
Disk to the programs.  I had created a config file for RiBBS that would 
point to all the paths needed, plus a bunch of other options and settings.

I myself have never been able to get Mess to work on my XP machine.  VCC 
works fine, but I am missing something in regards to mess or placement 
?  I get a coco3 screen but no keyboard response, it just sits and looks 
at me :) I am able to test on a real Coco3 when you get that far.

Ron Bihler



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Mon Sep  7 16:52:01 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 16:52:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <669518.2341.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<e44ad6640909062210h37179a73na2f53aa5bbb7de00@mail.gmail.com>
	<669518.2341.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA57271.5060100@worldnet.att.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I just woke, so I'm not quite in the code-mode yet. However, I've been
 > thinking alot about this. As I've said in other posts, I can't be sure if
> what I'm seeing is "normal", or if it is something being miscalculated in
> the emulator (first step), something miscalculated by NitrOS-9 (second
> step), or if it's Basic09 (third step). I know that mfree from the command
> line shows me memory allocations all the way up to 512K (the ram setting
> in the emulator for the 6809 CoCo3 roms I have). As I recall, the original
> OS-9 Level II displayed memory allocations up to the 64K limit. Everything
> above that was in a separate line, as a single block.

The current version of NitrOS-9 will recognize memory up to 2Meg. It 
will not indicate more memory even if it is present in MESS or a real Coco.

> 
> Basic09 had approximately 40K of workspace in the original version under
> Level II. Once you got to about 36-38K, you would start to encounter
> 43 errors (unknown procedure) when running external machine language
> subroutines, like Inkey or SysCall. If I open the Basic09 I'm using under
 > NitrOS-9 with over 23K, nothing runs and I get constant 43 errors.

There are two ways to start Basic09 with more than the default amount of 
memory. You can use the MEM command from Basic09 which is limited to 32K 
or you can start Basic09 by "basic09 #nmk" where nm can be up to 40.
I just entered "basic09 #40k" and MEM responded with 40959.

I don't get errors when using Basic09 with the above amount of memory.

> 
><snip>
> 
> Wayne
> 


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Sep  7 16:55:49 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:55:49 -0600
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090907205549.GA11975@virgo.sdc.org>

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 09:26:22AM -0400, Aaron Banerjee wrote:
> 
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to  
> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming  
> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we  
> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions  
> no matter what.

Oh yes, the whole "GOTO considered harmful" thing.  You shoulda seen
the grad student teaching FORTRAN 77 trying to avoid GOTO.  It was
rather funny.

Me, I'm not afraid of GOTO.  Like any other programming-language
construct, it can be used sanely, or insanely.

I offer the spaghetti inheritance in the standard libraries of
languages like Java and C++ as a counter-example.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From farna at att.net  Mon Sep  7 17:50:37 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:50:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
Message-ID: <4AA5802D.2060606@att.net>

That's what I was thinking... proper use of any command/instructions is useful and makes for better code, abuse is another story. I was never more than a mediocre BASIC programmer. I wrote a couple nice programs, but based them on MS-DOS versions (used them as a guide) and struggled through a lot of the routines. Too much chore for me and not enough fun! But I made neat compact code. The only thing I ever did to "hide" code was to use a loader that made it look like an assembly program on disk. Any competent programmer, even a BASIC programmer, could get around it easy enough. The intent was to keep those who didn't really know what they were doing from altering the code and breaking the program. If you knew enough to get around the loader, you knew enough to alter the code if desired and not later blame the original programmer if things failed to work right later! 

Intentionally making the code difficult to read is just bad programming, period! 

---------
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>

I do not believe that the use of GOTO is bad or wrong. It is the same as a BRA or a JMP, just as GOSUB is the same as BSR and JSR. All either does is establish an instruction branch, with the subroutine version requiring a return (RTS).

It is the old use of GOTO by some BASIC programmers in an attempt to make their code difficult to figure out that gave GOTO a bad name. In its place, and with proper use, GOTO can make code smaller and easier to read.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep  7 18:29:02 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:29:02 -0500
Subject: [Coco] SQL file was posted
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>

Folks, I'm waiting on Dennis to approve the e-mail I just sent to the 
list with the attached 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data.

There are many other people on the web involved in Forum-to-WordPress 
conversions for various old spam-infested forum systems, so I don't 
feel as pressed now.  I see a lot of IPB and phpbb2 to WordPress 
questions out there.  The 2007 forums is IPB and the current forums 
which will be ported into the new system as well, is phpbb2.

Once everything is translated into the new WordPress-based CoCo3.com, 
I feel like we're set for a long time to come, with one system, Many 
plug-ins and import functions, and lots of CoCo ideas to come.

Take a peek
www.coco3.com/community
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep  7 18:32:31 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:32:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172942.064c49d0@coco3.com>

It was not ideal for me to post the large SQL file to the list, so 
I'm offering to just e-mail it to anybody interested.

It's the original CoCo Forums up until 2007, chock full of awesome 
topics and posts in SQL query format in hopes somebody out there can 
translate it into a decent WordPress-importable format.

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep  7 18:40:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:40:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172942.064c49d0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172942.064c49d0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907173827.069cbad0@coco3.com>

At 05:32 PM 9/7/2009, you wrote:
>It was not ideal for me to post the large SQL file to the list, so 
>I'm offering to just e-mail it to anybody interested.
>
>It's the original CoCo Forums up until 2007, chock full of awesome 
>topics and posts in SQL query format in hopes somebody out there can 
>translate it into a decent WordPress-importable format.

I want to add that there is no private data in the 2007 CoCo Forums 
file, just the extracted Forum Names, Topics, and Posts to those 
topics.  All data was, and still is, Public to be used and preserved 
in any fashion.


Roger Taylor

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 18:47:32 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:47:32 -0400
Subject: [Coco] SQL file was posted
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909071547i739a4248ta76985037d54d92f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Roger,

I'd like to give it a whirl, if you could send the data or a link.

-Aaron

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Roger Taylor<operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> Folks, I'm waiting on Dennis to approve the e-mail I just sent to the list
> with the attached 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data.
>
> There are many other people on the web involved in Forum-to-WordPress
> conversions for various old spam-infested forum systems, so I don't feel as
> pressed now. ?I see a lot of IPB and phpbb2 to WordPress questions out
> there. ?The 2007 forums is IPB and the current forums which will be ported
> into the new system as well, is phpbb2.
>
> Once everything is translated into the new WordPress-based CoCo3.com, I feel
> like we're set for a long time to come, with one system, Many plug-ins and
> import functions, and lots of CoCo ideas to come.
>
> Take a peek
> www.coco3.com/community
> --
> Roger Taylor
>
> http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From ed.orbea at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 20:15:04 2009
From: ed.orbea at gmail.com (Ed Orbea)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:15:04 -0700
Subject: [Coco] 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data
Message-ID: <4AA5A208.3050105@gmail.com>

Roger:
I'm getting ready to travel this week for work, so I'll have some 
"waiting time in the airport". If you want to send me a copy of the 
database, I'll give her a go.

Ed Orbea


From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Mon Sep  7 21:25:21 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:25:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172942.064c49d0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172942.064c49d0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <00ad01ca3023$3bfc75b0$b3f56110$@com>

Send it along.....please :)

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Taylor
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:33 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data

It was not ideal for me to post the large SQL file to the list, so 
I'm offering to just e-mail it to anybody interested.

It's the original CoCo Forums up until 2007, chock full of awesome 
topics and posts in SQL query format in hopes somebody out there can 
translate it into a decent WordPress-importable format.

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.78/2347 - Release Date: 09/07/09
18:03:00



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 22:25:00 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:25:00 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200909072225.00109.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 07 September 2009, Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
>figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming
>environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
>happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions
>no matter what.
>
>Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling
>loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my
>colleagues.
>
>Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
>maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism
>(which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance
>or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it
>is going....
>
>Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while
>programming?
>
>                           - Aaron

The largest reason to discourage its use is because then the compiler must 
use even more resources tracking the stack.  

Scenario:

Your proggy is well and truly into a stack of subroutines possibly 10 deep on 
the stack and encounters a goto.  At this point the compiler can either 
upchuck and make you take it out, or it can search through a table to find 
the stack offset in effect now, then backtrack far enough in front of the 
goto's target label and try to figure out what the stack offset would be if 
it approached that target label by some other sequence of events, then insert 
enough stack cleanup in the goto path to keep the stack sane.  Without that 
effort, the first return it encounters, which will pull the address it is to 
resume execution at off the stack, there is an excellent chance of that 
return becoming a bushel of colored confetti on the screen crash.

I have had both crashes, and good results using goto's in C.  B09 seems to 
have a little better control,  but I have also had an on err goto go up in 
smoke with basic09.  Probably because the stack pointer wasn't tracked well 
enough.

Interpreted languages such as the basic in the roms, generally fare better in 
that dept.
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Oh, wait, that was Randal...nevermind...
             -- Larry Wall in <199709261754.KAA23761 at wall.org>


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 22:43:55 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:43:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 07 September 2009, John Donaldson wrote:
>Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP or BRA command in Assembly??? I
>have used JMP and BRA commands many times in Assembly programs.

Essentially yes, John.  The problem hits when you have executed a BSR to go 
hit a subroutine, which puts the return addy on the stack.  You subroutine 
may also use the stack  for anything it wants to save or reference later.

Your subroutine is done so you do a return.  That is fine _unless_ the 
subroutine didn't clean up the stack.  If data is left on the stack, then the 
return op will pull that data and stick in the program counter and off to 
byby land you go.  99% of any programs crashes are, I would wager, faulty 
stack housekeeping.

I learned a lot writing in assembly, and the first lesson, 100x more 
important than any other, is that the coder, and the coder alone, is 
responsible for stack housekeeping.

'vfy' is as stable as I could make it, I spent the last month after getting 
the code correct, sticking calls to os9p4, aka F$regdump in it to trace the 
fact that the stack was what I thought it was regardless of the paths 
actually taken as that code executed.

If anyone has ever made it crash, I want to hear about it.  I haven't so far.

>John Donaldson
>
>Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
>> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming
>> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
>> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions
>> no matter what.
>>
>> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling
>> loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my
>> colleagues.
>>
>> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
>> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism
>> (which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance
>> or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it
>> is going....
>>
>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while
>> programming?
>>
>>                           - Aaron


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

A good scapegoat is hard to find.
A guilty conscience is the mother of invention.
		-- Carolyn Wells


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 22:52:15 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:52:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <BA36E872-1C58-4EB8-BA23-572A01D96CA5@tee-boy.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<E470E616-D715-4633-B7BF-180892420737@ocs.net>
	<BA36E872-1C58-4EB8-BA23-572A01D96CA5@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <200909072252.15791.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 07 September 2009, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>On a related note, I found this article from Dijkstra's on programming
>languages quite humorous:
>
>http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/ewd498.html

Humorous, yes.  Truthful?  Absolutely.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Windows: The first user interface where you click Start to turn it off.

   -- From a Slashdot.org post


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 23:13:25 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:13:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 07 September 2009, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to
> be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time.

Not quite Wayne, it controls 8 each 8k ($2000 in  hex) sized pages at a time, 
which totals 64k, and any one of which may be remapped/swapped for another at 
any time.  Some such operations can of course lead to 'interesting' results 
if not handled right.  It (the gime) has 16 of these mapping registers, and 
which 8 is in use at a time controls the multitasking.  The OS normally 
claims 8 of them, and allocates the other 8 according to what program is to 
be given a slice of time in this time slot.  That is a somewhat simplified 
view, and programmers are free to manipulate their 1/2 of the map.

It is a technique I used when I wrote myram, a ramdisk for coco3's.  I could 
actually use 1.5 or 1.7 megabytes of the 2 megs in my machine as a ramdisk by 
such paging.  Coupled with an automatic initialization (formatting) when 
accessed the first time, which took about 100 milliseconds to do, and a full 
100% removal when you were done with it, I thought it would be the killer 
ramdisk for expanded coco3's, but it hasn't caught on for some reason.

As an aside os9/nitros9 doesn't give a program that only needs 12k a full 64k 
to play in.  It will get 2 pages, or 16k, and the rest of the map is filled 
with repeats, so it does not waste a full 64k ram map per executing program.

> DCom was written in the modular
> fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and
> used by it was contained in disk files.
>
>What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get
> different parts running in different pages and communicating between them.
> It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data
> in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows
> the program down significantly.
>
>As it turns out, writing unpack has proven that much of the slowdown was
> just from the backward way I wrote the original DCom. Unpack already does
> most of what DCom did, with fewer procedures, and is much smaller, more
> efficient and faster. But it still relies on disk files, and I know that
> these files will slow it down on a real CoCo3.
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:50:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
>
>> The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000
>> byte chunks.
>
>Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory.
> Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk
> as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit. OS-9 is written to make
> this simple. Even so, this can also be accomplished under the Basic ROMs.
> It certainly is harder under Basic, but it is even possible to pass
> variables between program modules.
>
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Windows: The first user interface where you click Start to turn it off.

   -- From a Slashdot.org post


From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 00:18:25 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:18:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <617835.23489.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I *believe* it is the abuse, and the failure to RENUM when necessary that some have abused the GOTO command... crazy way to do it. I do believe that a GOTO is OK in the right circumstances... and Yes, it is very much like the assembly mnemonics (and subsequent Machine code) of JMP and BRA. C had a goto that was a blatant goto "label" that could be abused to, and recommended ONLY for code contained in very deeply nested loops. IF a Goto is used properly, I can see it as a for-while, while (condition), or do-while type tool within BASIC. Some even have problems with a do-while loop.

The intolerances of the "Goto" commands/statements is practically ingrained in most programmers for about 2.5 decades, I believe, by computer science and IT programming programs. (with IT, you might or might not run into teaching what is good and bad programming logic instead of a "see monkey do, you do it too."

I run on the philosophy of if there's a better, more logical, and clear way of not using a goto, then I won't. But if needed, will use it appropriately if it's available. I don't like making code spaghetti if I can help it.

-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability

> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 10:56 AM

> Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP
> or BRA command in Assembly??? I have used JMP and BRA
> commands many times in Assembly programs.
> 
> John Donaldson
> 

> Aaron Banerjee wrote:
> > 
> > All of us have at least at one point in time either
> used, or tried to figure out code containing GOTO
> statements.? In a recent programming environment I was
> in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no
> exceptions no matter what.
> > 
> > Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to
> make a polling loop) in a relatively simple program, which
> totally confused my colleagues.
> > 
> > Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes
> code any less maintainable than other obviscation
> techniques, such as polymorphism (which, while useful, if
> abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or
> exception-based program control.? At least GOTO tells
> you where it is going....
> > 
> > Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO
> intolerance" while programming?
> > 
> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ???- Aaron



      


From tonypodraza at juno.com  Tue Sep  8 07:53:32 2009
From: tonypodraza at juno.com (Tony Podraza)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:53:32 GMT
Subject: [Coco] Gorilla Banana printers
Message-ID: <20090908.065332.22515.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

http://www.oldsoftware.com/1525.html

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Banerjee <spam_proof at verizon.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] Gorilla Banana printers
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:12:56 -0400



I have a working Gorilla Banana printer.  My last ribbon is threadbare  
(after being re-inked so many times).  Many moons ago, I installed a  
chip in the printer so it could run at 600 baud (which the coco uses  
for PRINT #-2).

The Line Printer VII ribbon fits my Gorilla Banana, but does anyone  
have any idea of where these rare ribbons can be obtained?
                               - Aaron


>
>> I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla Banana  
>> printer from DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I  
>> made my own cable rather than buying his overpriced one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe"
>>
>>
>> serial printer?


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYd3Ex0rMcqZ3qxjawUTg869cjXgExzArZjZUiUa8rMN80Yi7wE/


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 08:00:20 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:00:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0909080758160.6948@duo>

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Aaron Banerjee wrote:

> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to figure 
> out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming environment I 
> was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we happened to be 
> programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no matter what.
>
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in a 
> relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
>
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less 
> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which, 
> while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or 
> exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it is 
> going....
>
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?

Writing a classic state-machine is quite difficult without goto's.  Like 
everything else in the this world, "it depends".



-- 


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 08:03:21 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:03:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl><4AA314BA.6040801@sbcglobal.net>
	<157699.81338.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<3D1BBA0B0E3544AAB328D62D67953C06@Dell3Gig>
	<806755.14290.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0909080801370.6948@duo>

On Sun, 6 Sep 2009, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> Paul Fitch wrote:

>> Wayne, I run VCC 1.4 on my home XP Professional system (32bit) and on my XP
>> Home netbook (also 32bit).  With no issues.  I've also not found the utility
>> set for Nitros to be "less" useful than the stock OS-9 utils.  IMO, they are
>> much better.  Of course, when compared to the 68k versions, where available,
>> the OS-9 Lvl 2 utils do have less functionality.  I've always believed it
>> was a size/space thing.
>
> This is very interesting. I assumed Vcc didn't run when I tried it 
> because it was treated by XP the same way all other 16-bit programs I've 
> tried to run were treated. The window closes faster than it opens. Are 
> there any special settings or anything I should know about when 
> installing it? I don't recall seeing anything in the documentation that 
> suggested special settings...

That's quite odd.  I'm running Vcc in 32-bit Windows XP Professional that 
is itself executing as a VMware guest on a 64-bit Ubuntu Linux system.  No 
problems at all.


-- 


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 08:33:00 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:33:00 -0400
Subject: [Coco] SQL file was posted
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909080533h428edd87u63a52669e762c161@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Roger Taylor<operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> Folks, I'm waiting on Dennis to approve the e-mail I just sent to the list
> with the attached 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data.
>
> There are many other people on the web involved in Forum-to-WordPress
> conversions for various old spam-infested forum systems, so I don't feel as
> pressed now. ?I see a lot of IPB and phpbb2 to WordPress questions out
> there. ?The 2007 forums is IPB and the current forums which will be ported
> into the new system as well, is phpbb2.
>
> Once everything is translated into the new WordPress-based CoCo3.com, I feel
> like we're set for a long time to come, with one system, Many plug-ins and
> import functions, and lots of CoCo ideas to come.
>

WordPress seems to have it's own share of trouble... just saw this today:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/07/wordpress_worm/

"Among those hit by the latest attack was tech blogger Robert Scoble,
who lost two months of blog entries as a result. Scoble was hit by a
similar attack a couple of months ago, and is now considering a switch
to different blogging software."

more at http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/old-wordpress-versions-under-attack/

I guess the general lesson learned is upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.

BTW I'd still like to play with moving your old post data into
wordpress if you want to send the sql dump.

-Aaron


From os9dude at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 08:40:55 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:40:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Aaron Banerjee <spam_proof at verizon.net>wrote:

>
> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming
> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no
> matter what.
>
> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in
> a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
>
> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which,
> while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or
> exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it is
> going....
>
> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
>
>                          - Aaron
>

To be honest, I never understood the backlash GOTO suffered from structured
language evangelists, I felt it was to be taken as the one and only
source/cause of spaghetti code; that was the rhetoric from the uprising
Pascal and C community back in college (mid 80's for me)... my generation
had been brought up with TRS-80 Basic and 6800 ML assembly and that made us
all of the sudden the old guys who knew nothin' about programmin'.

Same could have been said about the IF THEN ELSE construct with its implied
GOTOs, yet no one raised a ruckus over that... GOTO was the four letter word
to be wary about. Sigh...




-- Rogelio


From farna at att.net  Tue Sep  8 09:02:35 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:02:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <4AA655EB.1090601@att.net>

One of the tricks I used for my genealogy database program was to use a bit of memory as a ram disk. In your case, a small ram disk could be used to store the main data files, and the various modules would all know where to quickly find it. Might have to require 512K, but anyone who uses a CoCo3 much today has that! My program was limited to the CoCo3, but in your case the main loader could test for the model then load the ram disk if a CC3 w/512K was detected. You'd have to test for CC 1/2 or 3, then test for 128/512K if CC3. I ran a little loader program that checked and called everything, also set the computer up for high speed disk operation. All data was kept on disk as you did though, but there was a trick to speeding that up also -- pre-written data files. There was a program that wrote blank data files on the disk, then the other modules simply filled in or read the files, knowing ahead of time about where the data would be. The disk had an index and the data files were numbered. The program requested data by entry file number, and knew about where it would be. If a granule on the disk later went bad there was a way to mark the data file on that granule as bad an skip it, I think. Been a while!!

Oh, the loader that speeds disk access up and I think calls a ram disk is in "Tandy's Little Wonder". I used every trick known at the time to speed the program up, and many thought it was a machine language program because of speed as well as the trick I used to make the program unlistable and appear on the disk as a m/l program. I don't recall how I did that... I think it was a trick published in Rainbow?? 

------
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>

I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time. DCom was written in the modular fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and used by it was contained in disk files.

What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get different parts running in different pages and communicating between them. It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows the program down significantly.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)




From boisy at tee-boy.com  Tue Sep  8 09:07:16 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:07:16 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>


On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> It is a technique I used when I wrote myram, a ramdisk for coco3's.   
> I could
> actually use 1.5 or 1.7 megabytes of the 2 megs in my machine as a  
> ramdisk by
> such paging.  Coupled with an automatic initialization (formatting)  
> when
> accessed the first time, which took about 100 milliseconds to do,  
> and a full
> 100% removal when you were done with it, I thought it would be the  
> killer
> ramdisk for expanded coco3's, but it hasn't caught on for some reason.

Gene, if you want to integrate myram into the NitrOS-9 project, feel  
free to do so.  I don't have time to do it myself, but am all in favor  
of replacing the Tandy-supplied RAM disk with something more robust.

Refresh my memory on exactly how myram is different from Tandy's  
offering.  Is it smaller in size?  Do you need different descriptors  
for different RAM disk sizes?  I'm looking for a general set of  
enhancements/differences.

Boisy


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 09:36:24 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:36:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909080636r7386d3adm204285996877e76a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Rogelio Perea<os9dude at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Aaron Banerjee <spam_proof at verizon.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
>> figure out code containing GOTO statements. ?In a recent programming
>> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
>> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no
>> matter what.
>>
>> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in
>> a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
>>
>> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
>> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which,
>> while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or
>> exception-based program control. ?At least GOTO tells you where it is
>> going....
>>
>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Aaron
>>
>
> To be honest, I never understood the backlash GOTO suffered from structured
> language evangelists, I felt it was to be taken as the one and only
> source/cause of spaghetti code; that was the rhetoric from the uprising
> Pascal and C community back in college (mid 80's for me)... my generation
> had been brought up with TRS-80 Basic and 6800 ML assembly and that made us
> all of the sudden the old guys who knew nothin' about programmin'.
>
> Same could have been said about the IF THEN ELSE construct with its implied
> GOTOs, yet no one raised a ruckus over that... GOTO was the four letter word
> to be wary about. Sigh...
>
>
>
>
> -- Rogelio

This thread has been interesting and lead me to read a few papers from
the 70s/early 80s discussing GOTO.   In hindsight, it seems the
movement against GOTO started with some very intelligent folks talking
rationally about the merits of structured programming and somehow
became distorted by less smart people into part of a general disdain
for "amateur" or hobby programmers.  Maybe the established
professional programmers and CS professors felt threatened by the
increasing availability of computers to average folks.  BASIC is
(mostly) unusable without GOTOs, BASIC was used by many of these new
hobbyists, and the two become associated with spaghetti code and
sloppy programming.

I'm sure people did pick up many bad practices by learning BASIC
mostly on their own (I know I did! :), and professors went from
instructing people with no prior experience to these new students who
thought they knew much more than they did (again, I sure did).   It
probably irked the profs to see these kids using BASIC to explore what
was previously their exclusive domain.  Telling these kids that a
fundamental part of their prior experience was forbidden in "real"
computer science had to be satisfying, even for those who knew this
was a bit inaccurate.

I think there is much truth behind GOTO being "considered harmful" in
many situations, but this truth is not fully understood by most of the
people who decry it's use.  Fear of GOTO has become wrapped up with
general dislike of BASIC and all things "amateur".  Even today, Visual
Basic is looked at with contempt by many (most?) professionals,
despite being quite a capable language (and really nothing like
BASIC).  Heck, I leave VB and VBA off my resume despite many years of
experience with them.

I'm sure amateurs are doing some horrible things in VB even as I type
this. On the other hand, I've seen many awful things done in Java, C#,
etc too (the daily WTF http://thedailywtf.com/  is very funny
reading).  Something about the label "BASIC" brings out a tradition of
dislike that seems to have been taught even to young programmers who
never used the 8 bit BASICs that I grew up with.

Ok.. ramble done, GOTO work.
-Aaron


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 09:46:21 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:46:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <200909080946.21139.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> It is a technique I used when I wrote myram, a ramdisk for coco3's.
>> I could
>> actually use 1.5 or 1.7 megabytes of the 2 megs in my machine as a
>> ramdisk by
>> such paging.  Coupled with an automatic initialization (formatting)
>> when
>> accessed the first time, which took about 100 milliseconds to do,
>> and a full
>> 100% removal when you were done with it, I thought it would be the
>> killer
>> ramdisk for expanded coco3's, but it hasn't caught on for some reason.
>
>Gene, if you want to integrate myram into the NitrOS-9 project, feel
>free to do so.  I don't have time to do it myself, but am all in favor
>of replacing the Tandy-supplied RAM disk with something more robust.
>
>Refresh my memory on exactly how myram is different from Tandy's
>offering.  Is it smaller in size?

Probably not, but I never found its size a hindrance.  It might be  bigger 
than rammer if that is what you are referring to  A bit over 700 bytes for 
the driver + the usual descriptor.

Tandy's offering wasn't exactly bugfree.  This one did it a lot closer to 
right, and in my use I have never lost a byte of data with it once I actually 
started to use it on a day to day basis.

>Do you need different descriptors
>for different RAM disk sizes?  I'm looking for a general set of
>enhancements/differences.

IIRC the size is stated in 8k pages, in the sct var of the descriptor, so I 
was able to test it by setting that to different values with dmode. If it is 
not initialized when accessed the first time, it does a minimal format of the 
first 3 or 4 sectors, taking a few milliseconds.  When done, a deiniz /r0 
returns every byte of memory it used to the free pool.  No leaks.

I don't have access to the coco3 from here ATM, linux has managed to kill 
bluetooth in recent kernels.

The src archive s/b on rtsi as myramv2.lzh.  It will need assembled, and I 
think I was using Chris Burkes csm for the 6309 stuff back then, but it can 
be built on either cpu by setting a header variable named h6309 true/false.

>Boisy
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

"It was a virgin forest, a place where the Hand of Man had never set foot."


From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  8 10:41:50 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>	<4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net>
	<200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4AA66D2E.7010807@sbcglobal.net>

Gene,
   I agree with your logic. The problem I see is that almost ALL 
assemblers on,  what ever processor it runs on has both these commands. 
Even the old PDP8/11's I use to program on had them. I question is "If 
they are so BAD why were they invented in the first place and why does 
even the  MSDOS assembler still have them. I would have thought that 
assemblers would have evolved to the point that  you did not  need them 
anymore.

John Donaldson
 


Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 07 September 2009, John Donaldson wrote:
>   
>> Is not a GOTO the same thing as a JMP or BRA command in Assembly??? I
>> have used JMP and BRA commands many times in Assembly programs.
>>     
>
> Essentially yes, John.  The problem hits when you have executed a BSR to go 
> hit a subroutine, which puts the return addy on the stack.  You subroutine 
> may also use the stack  for anything it wants to save or reference later.
>
> Your subroutine is done so you do a return.  That is fine _unless_ the 
> subroutine didn't clean up the stack.  If data is left on the stack, then the 
> return op will pull that data and stick in the program counter and off to 
> byby land you go.  99% of any programs crashes are, I would wager, faulty 
> stack housekeeping.
>
> I learned a lot writing in assembly, and the first lesson, 100x more 
> important than any other, is that the coder, and the coder alone, is 
> responsible for stack housekeeping.
>
> 'vfy' is as stable as I could make it, I spent the last month after getting 
> the code correct, sticking calls to os9p4, aka F$regdump in it to trace the 
> fact that the stack was what I thought it was regardless of the paths 
> actually taken as that code executed.
>
> If anyone has ever made it crash, I want to hear about it.  I haven't so far.
>
>   
>> John Donaldson
>>
>> Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>>     
>>> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
>>> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming
>>> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
>>> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions
>>> no matter what.
>>>
>>> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling
>>> loop) in a relatively simple program, which totally confused my
>>> colleagues.
>>>
>>> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
>>> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism
>>> (which, while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance
>>> or exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it
>>> is going....
>>>
>>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while
>>> programming?
>>>
>>>                           - Aaron
>>>       
>
>
>   


-- 


From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  8 11:03:20 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:03:20 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909080636r7386d3adm204285996877e76a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e44ad6640909080636r7386d3adm204285996877e76a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA67238.3060303@sbcglobal.net>

Aaron

   I  remember once after becoming a C programmer at the company I was 
working at, I signed up for some computer C programming classes at the 
local Community College. The prof would give us an assignment and I 
would sometimes turn it in using techniques that was far ahead of what 
he was teaching. He would always grade it low compared to a similar 
result from other students. It got so bad that I went to the Dean and 
complained. In the end he was forced to upgrade my grades. It seems some 
of the profs did not like their students being smarter than they were.
Later I took another programming course under a different prof. He gave 
extra credit for using advance techniques because to him you were not 
only learning what he taught but learning more by exploring on your own. 
He was always interested in your different approach to programming.

John Donaldson




Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Rogelio Perea<os9dude at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Aaron Banerjee <spam_proof at verizon.net>wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> All of us have at least at one point in time either used, or tried to
>>> figure out code containing GOTO statements.  In a recent programming
>>> environment I was in, GOTO (or it's equivalent in whatever language we
>>> happened to be programming) was expressly forbidden -- no exceptions no
>>> matter what.
>>>
>>> Just to be an irritant, I chucked a single GOTO (to make a polling loop) in
>>> a relatively simple program, which totally confused my colleagues.
>>>
>>> Given that it isn't abused, I don't see why GOTO makes code any less
>>> maintainable than other obviscation techniques, such as polymorphism (which,
>>> while useful, if abused can lead to very multiple inheritance or
>>> exception-based program control.  At least GOTO tells you where it is
>>> going....
>>>
>>> Has anyone else run into this type of "GOTO intolerance" while programming?
>>>
>>>                          - Aaron
>>>
>>>       
>> To be honest, I never understood the backlash GOTO suffered from structured
>> language evangelists, I felt it was to be taken as the one and only
>> source/cause of spaghetti code; that was the rhetoric from the uprising
>> Pascal and C community back in college (mid 80's for me)... my generation
>> had been brought up with TRS-80 Basic and 6800 ML assembly and that made us
>> all of the sudden the old guys who knew nothin' about programmin'.
>>
>> Same could have been said about the IF THEN ELSE construct with its implied
>> GOTOs, yet no one raised a ruckus over that... GOTO was the four letter word
>> to be wary about. Sigh...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Rogelio
>>     
>
> This thread has been interesting and lead me to read a few papers from
> the 70s/early 80s discussing GOTO.   In hindsight, it seems the
> movement against GOTO started with some very intelligent folks talking
> rationally about the merits of structured programming and somehow
> became distorted by less smart people into part of a general disdain
> for "amateur" or hobby programmers.  Maybe the established
> professional programmers and CS professors felt threatened by the
> increasing availability of computers to average folks.  BASIC is
> (mostly) unusable without GOTOs, BASIC was used by many of these new
> hobbyists, and the two become associated with spaghetti code and
> sloppy programming.
>
> I'm sure people did pick up many bad practices by learning BASIC
> mostly on their own (I know I did! :), and professors went from
> instructing people with no prior experience to these new students who
> thought they knew much more than they did (again, I sure did).   It
> probably irked the profs to see these kids using BASIC to explore what
> was previously their exclusive domain.  Telling these kids that a
> fundamental part of their prior experience was forbidden in "real"
> computer science had to be satisfying, even for those who knew this
> was a bit inaccurate.
>
> I think there is much truth behind GOTO being "considered harmful" in
> many situations, but this truth is not fully understood by most of the
> people who decry it's use.  Fear of GOTO has become wrapped up with
> general dislike of BASIC and all things "amateur".  Even today, Visual
> Basic is looked at with contempt by many (most?) professionals,
> despite being quite a capable language (and really nothing like
> BASIC).  Heck, I leave VB and VBA off my resume despite many years of
> experience with them.
>
> I'm sure amateurs are doing some horrible things in VB even as I type
> this. On the other hand, I've seen many awful things done in Java, C#,
> etc too (the daily WTF http://thedailywtf.com/  is very funny
> reading).  Something about the label "BASIC" brings out a tradition of
> dislike that seems to have been taught even to young programmers who
> never used the 8 bit BASICs that I grew up with.
>
> Ok.. ramble done, GOTO work.
> -Aaron
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   


-- 


From cyberpunk at prtc.net  Tue Sep  8 11:33:23 2009
From: cyberpunk at prtc.net (RJLCyberPunk)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:33:23 -0400
Subject: [Coco] S.O.S the "color toggle" key combination of keping F1
	pressed while pressing F9 to shut VCC down and up again is
	not working
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>	<4AA52D2B.1080504@sbcglobal.net><200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4AA66D2E.7010807@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <5646747161F54C37A1C7EEFD340FC18B@FANTASYWARE>

This method used to work on VCC but is no longer working! What could be 
happening? 



From jdaggett at gate.net  Tue Sep  8 12:24:22 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:24:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
Message-ID: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>

Another Questionfor the Software Guru's out there:

Not really being a programmer in C/C++ and since most assemblers are programmed in 
C/C++, how difficult would it be to modify the more common used assemblers for  6309 
for new instructions?

I was looking through the 6309 Technical Guide by Chet Simpson and was insterested 
by Alan Dekok's notes:

He stated:
"  The W,E, and F registers do not have the full immediate addressing
mode capabilities that D,A, and B do.  SBC, AND, BIT, EOR, ADC, OR
with E,F,W are available only in register-register mode.  LSR, ROR,
ROL are available for W but not for E,F.  ASR, ASL, LSL, NEG do not
exist at all for W,E,F."

Adding the Immediate Mode for instructions like SBC, AND, EOR, OR and ADC for the 
the E,  F, and W registers is rather easy. Would it be worth the effort to undertake this? I 
can put all those all on page three of the opcode map and they would have the same 
opcodes as their page one instructions. The $11 page code would just switch target 
register acted on. Real simple to do.

Also how hard would it to be to add several new commands. I was thinking two like in the 
HC11, BRCLR and BRSET. Test a bit in memory and branch if set or cleared. Good for 
testing memory mapped I/O ports. 

I also remember some conversations before about the DIV instructions and a few were 
not impressed with the way the 6309 implements them. I was thinking along the lines of 
implementing division like the HC11, with IDIV and FDIV. That is Integer and  Fractional 
division (16 bit). That will be a bit more detailed but division is nothing more that shift and 
subtract. Even thought of adding BCD ADD and BCD Subtract instructions. 

just some curious thoughts on how to improve an already good processor. 

james



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep  8 12:39:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:39:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com clean up and rebuild going well
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908110807.0641d0f0@coco3.com>

Howdy folks,

I want to invite you to visit and/or join the new coco3.com community 
portal that's being rebuilt to replace the present model.  With 
WordPress and lots of security features, I can get back on the train 
track and keep the wheels greased for a long time.

Basically, this e-mail is to let you know that coco3.com is yours, as 
it always has been since the first day when it was a collection of 
banners (btw, those will be added in Soon, guys), and I encourage 
those who like to spread the CoCo word to contribute to the best 
place on the web with excellent s.e. ranks that took years to gain. 
Take advantage.

You'll notice that the articles are continuing to grow as I copy them 
from the original site and also add in the content that was taken 
down back when the site was mostly static content. Please consider 
posting some cool CoCo articles for all to see?  They show up 
immediately unlike the past system that was captcha-free so spammers 
had their way with it.

Can you post items you have for sale.... YES, put what you want in an 
article and if you can embed the PayPal button, be my guest, although 
I can't confirm yet whether a regular user can post HTML or whether 
it's filtered to remove forms.

All you have to do is register, log in, and in the login box you'll 
see "dashboard".  That's the link to follow for posting a new 
article.  The cool part about these articles is that you can upload 
an image to appear in the article summary, as well as upload pictures 
and other media to be embedded in the article.  These rich-content 
articles definately spruce things up a lot and lets each user express 
theirself all they want.  The editor you get is very nice.

There's no photo gallery yet but you can easily post all your CoCo 
pictures and Check the Photos box for the category (from the 
dashboard) and later on I'll let people find User's posts with photos 
which doubles as a gallery.  Just clicking on Photos in the articles 
menu would bring up all uploaded pictures which could grow to be a 
massive collection.

This is just an example listing of some articles that have an image 
in their TITLE.  The message body can also contain media.

http://www.coco3.com/community/category/coco-peripherals/


I like the idea of bringing back the Chat meets, especially on 
holidays.  The new CoCo Cafe is being tweaked over time based on the 
feedback from the chat-rats, who I value greatly.

http://www.coco3.com/community/coco-cafe/

A registration is required to chat and post articles/comments.  Come sign up.

Thanks



-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep  8 12:53:31 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:53:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] SQL file was posted
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909080533h428edd87u63a52669e762c161@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090907172039.066aebc8@coco3.com>
	<e44ad6640909080533h428edd87u63a52669e762c161@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908114402.06420808@coco3.com>

At 07:33 AM 9/8/2009, you wrote:
>On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Roger Taylor<operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> > Folks, I'm waiting on Dennis to approve the e-mail I just sent to the list
> > with the attached 2007 CoCo Forums SQL data.
> >
> > There are many other people on the web involved in Forum-to-WordPress
> > conversions for various old spam-infested forum systems, so I don't feel as
> > pressed now.  I see a lot of IPB and phpbb2 to WordPress questions out
> > there.  The 2007 forums is IPB and the current forums which will be ported
> > into the new system as well, is phpbb2.
> >
> > Once everything is translated into the new WordPress-based 
> CoCo3.com, I feel
> > like we're set for a long time to come, with one system, Many plug-ins and
> > import functions, and lots of CoCo ideas to come.
> >
>
>WordPress seems to have it's own share of trouble... just saw this today:
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/07/wordpress_worm/
>
>"Among those hit by the latest attack was tech blogger Robert Scoble,
>who lost two months of blog entries as a result. Scoble was hit by a
>similar attack a couple of months ago, and is now considering a switch
>to different blogging software."

.... where spammers lurk as well

As I said, there's no safe place on the web.  Being that I run a CoCo 
site with no personal information linking to anything critical in 
life, we Lose Nothing in an attack... we restore from a backup, block 
or delete the offending Script Kiddies, and move on... that's the 
only way.  We're SAFE no matter what system the occasional hacker or 
spammer gets lucky with one long boring night for him.  I've fought 
the fight for years and can't quit now, and moving to different 
systems to get away from the cat-mouse game never works.  I'm moving 
to a new system because the old ones were very hard to Grow the site 
with or change content easily.  WP has good security plug-ins.

If the WordPress people themselves were hacked, it was because this 
is what terrorists do, they use every resource possible to bring 
somebody down.  Some of the MAJOR web services recently have also 
bitten a few bullets, and they're supposed to be hacker 
proof.  Hogwash.  A hacker is probably browsing through your MySpace 
or Facebook info right now and you'd never know it.  Those are the 
sites to worry about because our whole life is being advertised along 
with our personal account info.  Google is committing the worst crime 
of the century by knowing every move you make and who you are, and 
we're worried about a spammer getting by with one or two posts a year 
at coco3.com?  I'll keep kicking their butt, don't worry.  :)


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 13:00:15 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:00:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA66D2E.7010807@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4AA66D2E.7010807@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <200909081300.15702.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, John Donaldson wrote:
>Gene,
>   I agree with your logic. The problem I see is that almost ALL
>assemblers on,  what ever processor it runs on has both these commands.
>Even the old PDP8/11's I use to program on had them. I question is "If
>they are so BAD why were they invented in the first place and why does
>even the  MSDOS assembler still have them. I would have thought that
>assemblers would have evolved to the point that  you did not  need them
>anymore.
>
>John Donaldson

Chuckle, I too have to admit that it has been occasionally difficult to do 
something without a goto in both C or B09.

But goto's aren't known by that name in assembler.  Stack housekeeping in 
assembly makes lots of folks write code that is actually bigger because they 
don't make use of re-usable subroutines.  Some of my later stuff does do 
this, and because its re-usable code, the executable is smaller.  The call 
overhead can make it slower if used to excess like is done in rzsz for the 
crc checking.  I'll get to that again below.

But a nights sleep on the problem usually gives me an idea of how to re-
arrange the code that is actually a more readable format and that makes the 
need for the goto disappear.  Not always of course, but often enough the 
phenomena has gotten my attention.  Whether that works for others or not 
depends on the individuals thought/dream processes I think.

Our C compiler (using cprep19 and with all the accessory utils, like 
ansifront.12, cnoy, copt2 etc) can generally deal with a goto if the src code 
stays under 30k or so, and this was an area I only ran into once, in rzsz.  
It did have size limits of course although the improvements I made to the 
last, cprep19 preprocessor module of it were sufficient to allow me to build 
rzsz-3.36 with it, and that total src was a bit over 34k for either rz or sz 
IIRC.  I don't recall if there were goto's used in Chuck Foresbergs rzsz code 
or not, too many years since I last built that particular utility.  Its on 
rtsi, or was at one time.  If not there now, let me know and I'll see if I 
can send it up again,  I know it works flawlessly between the coco3 and this 
linux boxes version of sz or rz when I'm logged into it with minicom from 
here.

This is a file moving utility that really could use some help, it still does 
the crc calculations a byte at a time, and it should not.  Using the table 
lookup crc function (that BTW doubled its cps speed), it really should only 
do this once for every 256 byte block sent.  I think that would enhance its 
speed quite a bit, which on a stock coco is just over 450 cps on any 
connection speed above 4800, rising to about 725 cps on a nitros9/6309 
machine using a 9600 baud setting.  By doing the crc check as a single call 
that looped over the buffer without all that call overhead, I'd think that 
1000 cps on a 6809 coco might be reachable, and 1500 cps or better on a 
6309/nitros9 machine.

OTOH, like kermit, it can by diligent effort, move a perfect copy of a file 
over a 40 mile stretch of un-insulated, wet barbed wire fence if it had to.  
Both of those protocols were designed to work over less than perfect analog 
circuits from the ground up.  It takes a really broken phone circuit, one you 
almost couldn't talk over to make rzsz actually give up.

One other thing about that rzsz code, it checks to see by what name it was 
invoked, and will switch to xmodem or ymodem protocols if invoked as sx or 
sy!  They aren't nearly as robust a protocol, but with a good circuit...

So one can use a disk editor (dEd) to make directory entries that are named 
sx, sy that actually point to the sz executable's fd sector in the last 3 
bytes of the directory entry, ditto for rx & ry.  Just don't forget to add 
$20 to the length of the directory for each such link created, and increment 
the link count in the fd sector for the file.  I was always going to write a 
utility to do that, but never got a round tuit, my fault of course, an amiga 
got in the way.

Os9/nitros9 handles what is called a hardlink in linux flawlessly as long as 
the link counts in the fd are maintained, unless someone has removed that 
code, not knowing what it was for.

FWIW, I exercised those xmodem and ymodem protocols too before uploading it 
all those years ago.  They work.

I suspect that the hardlink ability is a little known fact about os9 though. 
:)

Your trivia facts for the day. :)

[...]

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Truthful, adj.:
	Dumb and illiterate.
		-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"


From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 13:42:04 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909080636r7386d3adm204285996877e76a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <297793.1348.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:36 AM
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:40 AM,
> Rogelio Perea<os9dude at gmail.com>
> wrote:
 
{...}
> I'm sure amateurs are doing some horrible things in VB even as I type
> this. On the other hand, I've seen many awful things done in Java, C#,
> etc too (the daily WTF http://thedailywtf.com/? is very funny
>

What is funny also is, being educated to ALWAYS put your code in the .C or .CPP file, yet M$ blatently ignores this in the Visual Studio environment when building forms (EVERY Item shows up in the .H header file. (All your actions, etc.)) Guess they got lazy and combined declarations with code, and leave the .C or .CPP file included only to keep it ANSI compiler legal. It works, but can get very messy in trying to read it.




      


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep  8 13:37:23 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>


Play Brother Jeremy's famous song, posted as an article here:

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 13:50:02 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA50B11.90201@att.net>
References: <4AA50B11.90201@att.net>
Message-ID: <480644.26810.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>From 'My Computer System Properties, General tab:

System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional. Version 2002, Service Pack 3
Computer: Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor 1500 MHz, 1.5 GHz, 1.96 GB of RAM

My computer is a 2004 HP/Compaq nx9020 notebook. I'm reasonably certain it is not 64-bit.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Frank Swygert <farna at att.net>
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 6:30:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

Are you positive you're not running a 64 bit OS?



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 13:54:01 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:54:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <948617.5853.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank you for this explanation of things. There are many aspects of microprocessors and maching programming I do not understand. Everything I read in my earlier days suggested to me that each 64K of RAM was called a PAGE of memory. It shows how much I still have yet to learn.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 8:13:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

On Monday 07 September 2009, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>I understand that. I believe that I said the GIME allows multiple pages to
> be available to the CPU, 1 page at a time.

Not quite Wayne, it controls 8 each 8k ($2000 in  hex) sized pages at a time, 
which totals 64k, and any one of which may be remapped/swapped for another at 
any time.  Some such operations can of course lead to 'interesting' results 
if not handled right.  It (the gime) has 16 of these mapping registers, and 
which 8 is in use at a time controls the multitasking.  The OS normally 
claims 8 of them, and allocates the other 8 according to what program is to 
be given a slice of time in this time slot.  That is a somewhat simplified 
view, and programmers are free to manipulate their 1/2 of the map.

It is a technique I used when I wrote myram, a ramdisk for coco3's.  I could 
actually use 1.5 or 1.7 megabytes of the 2 megs in my machine as a ramdisk by 
such paging.  Coupled with an automatic initialization (formatting) when 
accessed the first time, which took about 100 milliseconds to do, and a full 
100% removal when you were done with it, I thought it would be the killer 
ramdisk for expanded coco3's, but it hasn't caught on for some reason.

As an aside os9/nitros9 doesn't give a program that only needs 12k a full 64k 
to play in.  It will get 2 pages, or 16k, and the rest of the map is filled 
with repeats, so it does not waste a full 64k ram map per executing program.

> DCom was written in the modular
> fashion you speak of, and was disk-intensive. All of the data produced and
> used by it was contained in disk files.
>
>What I wanted to do, but couldn't at the time, was figure out how to get
> different parts running in different pages and communicating between them.
> It would speed up the program significantly, because I could keep the data
> in memory instead of having to rely on disk files. The use of files slows
> the program down significantly.
>
>As it turns out, writing unpack has proven that much of the slowdown was
> just from the backward way I wrote the original DCom. Unpack already does
> most of what DCom did, with fewer procedures, and is much smaller, more
> efficient and faster. But it still relies on disk files, and I know that
> these files will slow it down on a real CoCo3.
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:50:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator
>
>> The 64K limit is imposed by the CPU not the GIME which allocates $2000
>> byte chunks.
>
>Wayne, there is no reason why a large program must exist only in memory.
> Write these large programs in modular fashion and load modules from disk
> as needed to get around the 6809 64K memory limit. OS-9 is written to make
> this simple. Even so, this can also be accomplished under the Basic ROMs.
> It certainly is harder under Basic, but it is even possible to pass
> variables between program modules.
>
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Windows: The first user interface where you click Start to turn it off.

   -- From a Slashdot.org post

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 13:58:26 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA57271.5060100@worldnet.att.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<e44ad6640909051938x6c5649d3l117b994a8dc69968@mail.gmail.com>
	<63257.80231.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640909062210h37179a73na2f53aa5bbb7de00@mail.gmail.com>
	<669518.2341.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AA57271.5060100@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <344093.30677.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I know these things. The problem I'm running into with Basic09 is that it won't execute anything if the memory allocation is greater than 23K. It gives me 43 (unknown procedure) errors. I had the same problem with DCom originally, but it didn't start happening until I reached 36-38K of ram allocation. That was why I made DCom in "parts" and loaded each "part" separately.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 1:52:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Emulator

There are two ways to start Basic09 with more than the default amount of memory. You can use the MEM command from Basic09 which is limited to 32K or you can start Basic09 by "basic09 #nmk" where nm can be up to 40.
I just entered "basic09 #40k" and MEM responded with 40959.

I don't get errors when using Basic09 with the above amount of memory.


      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 14:02:55 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:02:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>http://www.americafedup.com

Good link Roger, thanks.  I hope this one _does_ get their attention.  But I 
won't be there, its a + hour drive one way for me.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

A clever prophet makes sure of the event first.


From lost at l-w.ca  Tue Sep  8 13:55:20 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:55:20 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
In-Reply-To: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4AA69A88.9000603@l-w.ca>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> Not really being a programmer in C/C++ and since most assemblers are programmed in 
> C/C++, how difficult would it be to modify the more common used assemblers for  6309 
> for new instructions?

I suppose I qualify as a software guru in this instance, what with 
having written an assembler for 6x09.

For a table-driven assembler, which most are, it should be relatively 
trivial to add new instructions. This is especially the case if the new 
instructions already leverage existing addressing modes since that means 
no new operand parsing modes would be required. This would be the case 
when fleshing out the capabilities of the extra registers in the 6309.

Completely new instructions with no equivalent in the existing 
instruction set are no harder except there may need to be some 
additional parsing work for the assembler to grok the operand.

As a matter of fact, it seems to me that it is actually easier to add 
instructions to assemblers than it is to the CPUs themselves.

On the subject of new instructions, let me throw out a "pie in the sky" 
wish list.

A "test and set" instruction would cool. That way one could do an atomic 
"test and set" operation without having to disable interrupts. This is a 
required capability for mutexes and so on. In single processor systems, 
one only needs to disable interrupts, load the value, set the value, 
then enable interrupts, then test the original value loaded (about 6 
instructions on a 6809). Once you throw in multiple processors, it 
becomes more critical but in that case, the bus has to be locked for the 
duration of the instruction so the other CPU cannot access the same 
memory location between the read and write operations. That makes it 
more complex and probably not worth implementing.

Maybe even add a SET instruction to compliment CLR, although OIM can be 
used to accomplish the same thing.

If you're adding instructions to the CPU, it might be cool to also add 
arithmetic and logical operations on the 16 bit pointer registers (and 
not just the register to register modes). Possibly even some additional 
32 bit math instructions, though that might require adding another 
register or two which could be difficult.

Something else I've found lacking in the 6309 is a means to stack the 
entire register set in the same order as interrupts do in native mode. 
Maybe a PSH/PUL variant with a 16 bit register bitmap or a PSHrALL and 
PULrALL type instruction? (It takes 3 instructions to do it currently, 
totalling 6 bytes and a further 3 instructions at 6 bytes to remove the 
registers from the stack.)

I agree with improved DIV instructions - they would be useful. I also 
think improved BCD support would be cool, although that may be 
achievable easily enough by setting the half-carry flag correctly after 
all 8 bit add/sub operations and adding a DAA variant for each 8 bit 
register. Of course, direct BCD support would also be cool.

> 
> I was looking through the 6309 Technical Guide by Chet Simpson and was insterested 
> by Alan Dekok's notes:
> 
> He stated:
> "  The W,E, and F registers do not have the full immediate addressing
> mode capabilities that D,A, and B do.  SBC, AND, BIT, EOR, ADC, OR
> with E,F,W are available only in register-register mode.  LSR, ROR,
> ROL are available for W but not for E,F.  ASR, ASL, LSL, NEG do not
> exist at all for W,E,F."
> 
> Adding the Immediate Mode for instructions like SBC, AND, EOR, OR and ADC for the 
> the E,  F, and W registers is rather easy. Would it be worth the effort to undertake this? I 
> can put all those all on page three of the opcode map and they would have the same 
> opcodes as their page one instructions. The $11 page code would just switch target 
> register acted on. Real simple to do.
> 
> Also how hard would it to be to add several new commands. I was thinking two like in the 
> HC11, BRCLR and BRSET. Test a bit in memory and branch if set or cleared. Good for 
> testing memory mapped I/O ports. 
> 
> I also remember some conversations before about the DIV instructions and a few were 
> not impressed with the way the 6309 implements them. I was thinking along the lines of 
> implementing division like the HC11, with IDIV and FDIV. That is Integer and  Fractional 
> division (16 bit). That will be a bit more detailed but division is nothing more that shift and 
> subtract. Even thought of adding BCD ADD and BCD Subtract instructions. 
> 
> just some curious thoughts on how to improve an already good processor. 
> 
> james
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 14:07:07 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:07:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <948617.5853.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<948617.5853.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200909081407.07191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>Thank you for this explanation of things. There are many aspects of
> microprocessors and maching programming I do not understand. Everything I
> read in my earlier days suggested to me that each 64K of RAM was called a
> PAGE of memory. It shows how much I still have yet to learn.
>
>Wayne
>
Thanks for the flowers Wayne, and I hope I didn't make a mistake someplace, 
that is all from memory over a decade old.  And much as I hate to say it, at 
74 (75 in another month) CRS is beginning to set in.

I admire what it is you are doing, and eagerly await the chance to try it 
out.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

A clever prophet makes sure of the event first.


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 14:08:31 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:08:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
	<200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200909081408.31708.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Gene Heskett wrote:
>On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>>http://www.americafedup.com
>
>Good link Roger, thanks.  I hope this one _does_ get their attention.  But
> I won't be there, its a + hour drive one way for me.

Gahh! that s/b "4+ hours".  Darned fingers don't always type what I think. :(

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Anyone who has had a bull by the tail knows five or six more things
than someone who hasn't.
		-- Mark Twain


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 14:21:56 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <200909081300.15702.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<200909072243.55308.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4AA66D2E.7010807@sbcglobal.net>
	<200909081300.15702.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <873126.13480.qm@web53704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

An example of what I consider to be good use of GOTO:

When I first wrote DCom, I used complex condition tests. I found out that Basic09's editor doesn't like long statements. Why? Because Basic09 wraps long lines, and the search and change functions can't find text if it's wrapped, like (notice the wrap in the <=$63):

IF vTokenCode>=$40 AND vTokenCode<=$43 OR vTokenCode>=$60 AND vTokenCode<=
$63 OR vTokenCode>=$80 AND vTokenCode<=$83 THEN

If I try:
s/<=$63/

 I will get, " can't find "<=$63" ". The same happens with c/<=$63/. It will find <= or $63, but not both. Also, If you look at the above code, this instruction is having to test 11 conditions before arriving at whether the statement is true or false.

To get around this, and which has also proven to be faster in execution, I wrote the code as follows in unpack (THEN 20 is the same as THEN GOTO 20, except it uses a different token in the I-Code):

IF vTokenCode>=$40 AND vTokenCode<=$43 THEN 20
IF vTokenCode>=$60 AND vTokenCode<=$63 THEN 20
IF vTokenCode>=$80 AND vTokenCode<=$83 THEN
20 variables.varDST.DMAddr:=vTokenPointer

In addition to making the code faster, it also removes the need to duplicate code. The code within the last IF THEN/ENDIF block would have to be repeated, or put into a subroutine (a GOSUB and a RETURN) for each separate condition to use it. This way, I'm only branching a short distance, and using the same code.

It also allows for special conditions that apply to just one of the tests. For example, let's say I find I need to set one variable if vTokenCode is between $40 and $43, but nowhere else. I can modify the code:

IF vTokenCode>=$40 AND vTokenCode<=$43 THEN
special code
GOTO 20
ENDIF
IF vTokenCode>=$60 AND vTokenCode<=$63 THEN 20
IF vTokenCode>=$80 AND vTokenCode<=$83 THEN
20 variables.varDST.DMAddr:=vTokenPointer

For me, this has proven to be a much more efficient, and faster, method of coding. It is also readable, followable, and easier to debug.

Wayne



      


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 15:42:38 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:42:38 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
In-Reply-To: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909081242y3ecfd2cp67589df87a59d767@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/8/09, jdaggett at gate.net  wrote:
> Another Questionfor the Software Guru's out there:
>
> <snip>
>
> Adding the Immediate Mode for instructions like SBC, AND, EOR, OR and ADC
> for the
> the E,  F, and W registers is rather easy. Would it be worth the effort to
> undertake this? I
> can put all those all on page three of the opcode map and they would have
> the same
> opcodes as their page one instructions. The $11 page code would just switch
> target
> register acted on. Real simple to do.

----

Looking at the opcode map, I think you would want to use the $10 page
code for instructions using W (and use the same base opcode as the
instructions for B).  The 6309 variants for D already share the same
base opcode as A.

If you add new instructions, could you also add a new bit to the MD
register to enable/disable those instructions?  Some existing 6309
software may expect certain opcodes to trigger an Illegal Instruction
exception.

Darren


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 16:08:41 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:08:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
	<200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0909081605400.6948@duo>


> On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>> http://www.americafedup.com

Roger:  Please take your reactionary, right-wing politics OFF OF THIS 
LIST.

Suffice to say we see things very differently in terms of the challenges 
facing the country and this ain't the place to air such opinions.



-- 


From jmurphy at delphiforums.com  Tue Sep  8 16:27:38 2009
From: jmurphy at delphiforums.com (John Murphy)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:27:38 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0909081605400.6948@duo>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
	<200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0909081605400.6948@duo>
Message-ID: <9D3129EF42474BA7B154A5E243C466CE@PC4>

The link was part of his .sig, not part of his message.



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven Hirsch" <snhirsch at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:08 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Hello Darling

> 
>> On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>>> http://www.americafedup.com
> 
> Roger:  Please take your reactionary, right-wing politics OFF OF THIS 
> LIST.
> 
> Suffice to say we see things very differently in terms of the challenges 
> facing the country and this ain't the place to air such opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Tue Sep  8 16:43:58 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:43:58 -0600
Subject: [Coco] ramdisk was Re:  Emulator
In-Reply-To: <23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 08:07:16AM -0500, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
> 
> Gene, if you want to integrate myram into the NitrOS-9 project, feel  
> free to do so.  I don't have time to do it myself, but am all in favor  
> of replacing the Tandy-supplied RAM disk with something more robust.

I thought NitrOS-9 came with Darling's rammer ramdisk?  Or did you
change that recently?

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Tue Sep  8 17:44:15 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:44:15 -0500
Subject: [Coco] ramdisk was Re:  Emulator
In-Reply-To: <20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
	<20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <2601872E-7577-4D73-9675-0A94A512CEF5@tee-boy.com>

I think you're right Willard.  It's been a while since I poked that  
far down into the project.

I think Gene's myram would be an improvement over Darling's version,  
based on what Gene describes.  I'm all for putting myram into the  
distro, but like I said, I just don't have the time to do it right now.

Reminds me... I owe you tok source.  Will get that to you straight away.

Boisy

On Sep 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 08:07:16AM -0500, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>>
>> Gene, if you want to integrate myram into the NitrOS-9 project, feel
>> free to do so.  I don't have time to do it myself, but am all in  
>> favor
>> of replacing the Tandy-supplied RAM disk with something more robust.
>
> I thought NitrOS-9 came with Darling's rammer ramdisk?  Or did you
> change that recently?
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From boisy at tee-boy.com  Tue Sep  8 17:46:19 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:46:19 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCoFest ideas
Message-ID: <DE1E6DF4-27AE-4525-A085-C03F004208DD@tee-boy.com>

I ran across an interesting website for KansasFest  
(www.kansasfest.org), a website for a yearly Apple II festival held in  
Kansas City.  They hold their event during a week, and it's done at a  
University, not a hotel.  Their website is quite nice, and I thought I  
would pass this along in the interest of fostering new ideas for our  
own fest.
--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep  8 18:33:02 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:33:02 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0909081605400.6948@duo>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
	<200909081402.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0909081605400.6948@duo>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908172947.062297e0@coco3.com>

At 03:08 PM 9/8/2009, you wrote:

>>On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>>>http://www.americafedup.com
>
>Roger:  Please take your reactionary, right-wing politics OFF OF THIS LIST.
>
>Suffice to say we see things very differently in terms of the 
>challenges facing the country and this ain't the place to air such opinions.


Please don't click on any tagline links unless you want to.  90% of 
all of my outgoing e-mail are not to the CoCo list, but everyone sees 
my taglines.  Sorry if you were offended.  No political reply will be 
made to your above political comment.  Fair enough.  Let me try 
editing my tagline the right way, but it will remain my own.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  8 20:08:20 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:08:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909081242y3ecfd2cp67589df87a59d767@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<5d802cd0909081242y3ecfd2cp67589df87a59d767@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11D2B54A2D2D42BFBD06E1CDC1FF039A@Dell3Gig>

I've said several times that the way to get the Coco 4 was to beef up the
6309 and the GIME.  If you are adding instructions, don't just consider 8/16
bit variations.  Some 32bit instructions would be cool.  Of course, I would
think the compiler/assembler/linker tools should be 100% up to speed before
the "new" chip was released.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Darren A
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
> 
> On 9/8/09, jdaggett at gate.net  wrote:
> > Another Questionfor the Software Guru's out there:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Adding the Immediate Mode for instructions like SBC, AND, 
> EOR, OR and 
> > ADC for the the E,  F, and W registers is rather easy. Would it be 
> > worth the effort to undertake this? I can put all those all on page 
> > three of the opcode map and they would have the same 
> opcodes as their 
> > page one instructions. The $11 page code would just switch target 
> > register acted on. Real simple to do.
> 
> ----
> 
> Looking at the opcode map, I think you would want to use the 
> $10 page code for instructions using W (and use the same base 
> opcode as the instructions for B).  The 6309 variants for D 
> already share the same base opcode as A.
> 
> If you add new instructions, could you also add a new bit to 
> the MD register to enable/disable those instructions?  Some 
> existing 6309 software may expect certain opcodes to trigger 
> an Illegal Instruction exception.
> 
> Darren
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From lothan at newsguy.com  Tue Sep  8 20:15:47 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:15:47 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>

I've generally considered it to be more of a "religious issue" based on 
rhetoric, as are most topics with an extreme prejudice in either direction. 
I've seen plenty of examples in my life in which a well-placed GOTO can help 
reduce complexity and/or improve readability. I've also seen plenty of 
examples of spaghetti in which some extremist tried his darndest to 
eliminate that well-placed GOTO.

Well designed code has nothing whatever to do with arguments for or against 
GOTO; in my opinion, it's more about carefully and judiciously using the 
tools available to the best of one's ability. If one gives good thought to a 
problem and finds that GOTO solves that problem, by all means use it.

I think Gene brings up an excellent point regarding the complexity of 
maintaining stack state with GOTOs, though. In general, you ought to avoid 
jumping into the middle of a code block if possible... but not to a 
religious extreme if it can't be helped. Just keep in mind that jumping into 
the middle of nested code blocks (if, for, while, do, loop, switch, ...) 
mucks with the stack and may cause some amount of unpleasantness at 
run-time. Some languages (notably C#) avoid this complexity by explicitly 
prohibiting jumping from one code block to another; e.g. labels in C# are 
scoped to the code block they're in.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rogelio Perea" <os9dude at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:40 AM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability

> To be honest, I never understood the backlash GOTO suffered from 
> structured
> language evangelists, I felt it was to be taken as the one and only
> source/cause of spaghetti code; that was the rhetoric from the uprising
> Pascal and C community back in college (mid 80's for me)... my generation
> had been brought up with TRS-80 Basic and 6800 ML assembly and that made 
> us
> all of the sudden the old guys who knew nothin' about programmin'.
>
> Same could have been said about the IF THEN ELSE construct with its 
> implied
> GOTOs, yet no one raised a ruckus over that... GOTO was the four letter 
> word
> to be wary about. Sigh...
>
> -- Rogelio
 



From jdaggett at gate.net  Tue Sep  8 20:37:49 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:37:49 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
In-Reply-To: <4AA69A88.9000603@l-w.ca>
References: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4AA69A88.9000603@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <4AA6F8DD.16602.11FFC9@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 8 Sep 2009 at 11:55, William Astle wrote:

> Something else I've found lacking in the 6309 is a means to stack the 
> entire register set in the same order as interrupts do in native mode. 
> Maybe a PSH/PUL variant with a 16 bit register bitmap or a PSHrALL and 
> PULrALL type instruction? (It takes 3 instructions to do it currently, 
> totalling 6 bytes and a further 3 instructions at 6 bytes to remove the 
> registers from the stack.)

William

Something like the 68K where you have a PUSH/PULL instruction and a 16 bit postword 
that has a corresponding bit for each register to push or pull? 

james


From lost at l-w.ca  Tue Sep  8 20:54:47 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:54:47 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Assembler modifications and a super 6309 processor
In-Reply-To: <4AA6F8DD.16602.11FFC9@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4AA68536.27940.22A9A8@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<4AA69A88.9000603@l-w.ca> <4AA6F8DD.16602.11FFC9@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4AA6FCD7.4060905@l-w.ca>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> On 8 Sep 2009 at 11:55, William Astle wrote:
> 
>> Something else I've found lacking in the 6309 is a means to stack the 
>> entire register set in the same order as interrupts do in native mode. 
>> Maybe a PSH/PUL variant with a 16 bit register bitmap or a PSHrALL and 
>> PULrALL type instruction? (It takes 3 instructions to do it currently, 
>> totalling 6 bytes and a further 3 instructions at 6 bytes to remove the 
>> registers from the stack.)
> 
> William
> 
> Something like the 68K where you have a PUSH/PULL instruction and a 16 bit postword 
> that has a corresponding bit for each register to push or pull? 

That would be excellent. Especially if there's a way to do it with a one 
byte opcode. My researches show there are 18 invalid single byte opcode 
values in the 6309 so I would think it would be possible.

> 
> james
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Tue Sep  8 21:43:50 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:43:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <015801ca30ee$fb4b3480$f1e19d80$@com>

What year and where was this song sung?

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:37 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling


Play Brother Jeremy's famous song, posted as an article here:

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.78/2347 - Release Date: 09/08/09
06:48:00



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep  8 21:49:46 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:49:46 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Hello Darling
In-Reply-To: <015801ca30ee$fb4b3480$f1e19d80$@com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908123558.0651fd08@coco3.com>
	<015801ca30ee$fb4b3480$f1e19d80$@com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908204541.0677d6f0@coco3.com>

At 08:43 PM 9/8/2009, you wrote:
>What year and where was this song sung?


This isn't the only take of it.   I understand that Brother J. has 
sung it on different occasions, including the PennFest 2000 event 
which there is a video of.





-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From spam_proof at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 21:59:04 2009
From: spam_proof at verizon.net (Aaron Banerjee)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:59:04 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>


On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:15 PM, Lothan wrote:
....
>
> I think Gene brings up an excellent point regarding the complexity  
> of maintaining stack state with GOTOs, though. In general, you ought  
> to avoid jumping into the middle of a code block if possible... but  
> not to a religious extreme if it can't be helped. Just keep in mind  
> that jumping into the middle of nested code blocks (if, for, while,  
> do, loop, switch, ...) mucks with the stack and may cause some  
> amount of unpleasantness at run-time. Some languages (notably C#)  
> avoid this complexity by explicitly prohibiting jumping from one  
> code block to another; e.g. labels in C# are scoped to the code  
> block they're in.

Maintaining the stack is most certainly an important issue.  Several  
years ago, I wrote a program to solve the "Eight Queens" problem on a  
coco.  I counted on the fact that you could "jump out of" a for/next,  
alter the counter, and jump back in order to simulate recursion.  That  
program was more of an academic curiosity, and most certainly not  
intended to promote jumping in and out of FOR loops.  It ran on ECB  
1.0, but not on GWBASIC.

I think the resounding issue of this thread is that even GOTO can be a  
good thing if used appropriately, just as almost anything can be "bad"  
if misused.

              - Aaron


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 22:14:59 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:14:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] ramdisk was Re:  Emulator
In-Reply-To: <20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
	<20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <200909082214.59507.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Willard Goosey wrote:
>On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 08:07:16AM -0500, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>> Gene, if you want to integrate myram into the NitrOS-9 project, feel
>> free to do so.  I don't have time to do it myself, but am all in favor
>> of replacing the Tandy-supplied RAM disk with something more robust.
>
>I thought NitrOS-9 came with Darling's rammer ramdisk?  Or did you
>change that recently?
>
>Willard

No, I believe that is still the case Willard.  But Kevin D's ramdisk is a 
little too hard coded, falling over at slightly over 500kb in size, and 
doesn't cleanly return the ram when its use is no longer desired.  Mine 
doesn't have those limits, and can be used at at least 1.5 megabytes in size 
on a 2 meg system.  If I can get a terminal working on the coco again, I'll 
see what it takes to make it build using mamou as the assembler, and see if I 
can get it into my nitros9 tree here.  If that works, then I'll see about 
getting it into the online sourceforge tree too.

But at the speed I work on this stuff of late, don't hold your breath. :)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Science is to computer science as hydrodynamics is to plumbing.


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 22:25:35 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:25:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200909082225.35364.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 08 September 2009, Aaron Banerjee wrote:
>On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:15 PM, Lothan wrote:
>....
>
>> I think Gene brings up an excellent point regarding the complexity
>> of maintaining stack state with GOTOs, though. In general, you ought
>> to avoid jumping into the middle of a code block if possible... but
>> not to a religious extreme if it can't be helped. Just keep in mind
>> that jumping into the middle of nested code blocks (if, for, while,
>> do, loop, switch, ...) mucks with the stack and may cause some
>> amount of unpleasantness at run-time. Some languages (notably C#)
>> avoid this complexity by explicitly prohibiting jumping from one
>> code block to another; e.g. labels in C# are scoped to the code
>> block they're in.
>
>Maintaining the stack is most certainly an important issue.  Several
>years ago, I wrote a program to solve the "Eight Queens" problem on a
>coco.  I counted on the fact that you could "jump out of" a for/next,
>alter the counter, and jump back in order to simulate recursion.  That
>program was more of an academic curiosity, and most certainly not
>intended to promote jumping in and out of FOR loops.  It ran on ECB
>1.0, but not on GWBASIC.
>
>I think the resounding issue of this thread is that even GOTO can be a
>good thing if used appropriately, just as almost anything can be "bad"
>if misused.
>
>              - Aaron

This is one of those cases where that Clint Eastwood quote fits.  A man must 
know his (C compilers) limits.  :-)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

C makes it easy for you to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes that
harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg.
		-- Bjarne Stroustrup


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  9 00:00:24 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:00:24 -0500
Subject: [Coco] 3 years of CoCo Forum posts
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090908225312.063b00d0@coco3.com>


Good news.  It looks like the original popular CoCo Forums online 
from 2004 to 2007 is nearing a translated format that's compatible 
with the WordPress importer.

The intended result?  The CoCo Forums turned into blog 
posts/comments.  From there, we can make things look like a forum, 
more or less, but the important thing here is preserving those "lost" 
posts, even for the 2007-2009 forums currently in use.  Everything 
will be merged into one new system in one format, and from there it 
can be exported to many other systems, making our CoCo forum posts 
last forever......

I just imported a test message in xml format and also keep getting 
the updated forum xml file from Lothan, who's deserves red carpet 
status for taking the time to help with this project.  So far he's 
done most of the work crunching the SQL data into XML.  Later 
there'll be sorting and reassigning author's their posts back in the 
new site, if they kept their nickname across the different coco3.com 
upgrades.  Work work work.

Thanks, Lothan!!
-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From cdiman7 at flash.net  Wed Sep  9 00:12:41 2009
From: cdiman7 at flash.net (Karl Sefcik)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:12:41 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCoFest ideas
In-Reply-To: <DE1E6DF4-27AE-4525-A085-C03F004208DD@tee-boy.com>
References: <DE1E6DF4-27AE-4525-A085-C03F004208DD@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <4AA72B39.7010408@flash.net>

Boisy,

   Familiar with the area, Rockhurst University (then a college) was in 
my college's (Park)(now a university too) basketball (and other sports) 
league.
    Now instead of meeting at Rockhurst, my college has a cave with lots 
of room, guaranteed a unique setting.


     The home page
http://www.park.edu/

And the underground, which would be kinda funny, the coco going underground.

During the summer, I bet they could find room in the cave for one of our 
shows, maybe at regular fest time too. They don't have the underground 
tour as a separate thing on their homepage, but as an alumni, I will do 
some calling and see what can come up.

In the mean time, you can go to the INSIDE PARK VIDEO TOUR,
  click on that
then click on the first topic,
ABOUT PARK UNIVERSITY,
there are some scenes of the underground, which is all limestone walls.
Next, click on
PARKVILLE CAMPUS,
there are some additional scenes of the underground.

It's got to cost less than the $1500 for the Atlanta Fest that Al Dages 
had to negotiate with.

Besides, we might pick up some more attendees from the university there, 
which now has a computer science program (they didn't when I was a 
student there, but that was before the Coco too).

Karl Sefcik

Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
> I ran across an interesting website for KansasFest (www.kansasfest.org), 
> a website for a yearly Apple II festival held in Kansas City.  They hold 
> their event during a week, and it's done at a University, not a hotel.  
> Their website is quite nice, and I thought I would pass this along in 
> the interest of fostering new ideas for our own fest.
> -- 
> Boisy G. Pitre
> E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
> Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  9 05:25:22 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 04:25:22 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
Message-ID: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>


Hi

As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I did a youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a linux box (as a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless internet connection":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s


Yes, I can do the same thing with my palm using ssh, but I like more the Color Computer :)


Jorge Machin

_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx

From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Sep  9 09:41:33 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:41:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090909134133.GB2656@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 04:25:22AM -0500, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:

> As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I
> did a youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a
> linux box (as a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless
> internet connection":
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s

And a Fedora user too!  I like you more and more... :-)

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From farna at att.net  Wed Sep  9 10:21:16 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:21:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCoFest ideas
Message-ID: <4AA7B9DC.4070304@att.net>

I think the show is small enough now that having it in a lower cost, more public access place (large library meeting room, or college campus, etc.) might be a good cost lowering solution. Finding one with a hotel within easy walking distance may be a problem though. That's the main benefit of having it at the hotel -- rooms and event in the same building. Made it darn convenient when I was a vendor! 

There isn't much parallel between the CoCo and the more popular 8 bits like the Apple II and Commodore. We were always a smaller community, and that hasn't changed a bit. If we were more equal in terms of size a combined 8 bit show would be really nice, but it's not much fun being the minority in a big show. I'm an AMC fan, remember -- I'm used to that!! 

--------
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:46:19 -0500
From: Boisy G. Pitre <boisy at tee-boy.com>

I ran across an interesting website for KansasFest  
(www.kansasfest.org), a website for a yearly Apple II festival held in  
Kansas City.  They hold their event during a week, and it's done at a  
University, not a hotel.  Their website is quite nice, and I thought I  
would pass this along in the interest of fostering new ideas for our  
own fest.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 10:28:18 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:28:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200909091028.18685.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>Hi
>
>As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I did a
> youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a linux box (as
> a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless internet connection":
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
>
I hadn't tried it with basic, only nitros9.  And right now the bluetooth 
stuff in the latest linux kernel is not recognizing my usb bt dongle.

How did you setup linux to do that?  What distro etc.

Thanks.

>Yes, I can do the same thing with my palm using ssh, but I like more the
> Color Computer :)
>
>
>Jorge Machin
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

clock speed


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 10:29:09 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:29:09 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <20090909134133.GB2656@tuxdriver.com>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
	<20090909134133.GB2656@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <200909091029.09273.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 09 September 2009, John W. Linville wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 04:25:22AM -0500, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>> As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I
>> did a youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a
>> linux box (as a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless
>> internet connection":
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
>
>And a Fedora user too!  I like you more and more... :-)
>
>John

So do I John, maybe he can tell me how to make it work on F10.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

clock speed


From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  9 12:24:33 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:24:33 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <200909091028.18685.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
	<200909091028.18685.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W199B6F38A5C959CE2A02E3E5E90@phx.gbl>


Hi:

Sorry if my English is very bad :P

I tested the configuration first on my desktop using Fedora 11 (kernel 2.6.30.5)  and make the youtube video on my  laptop using Fedora 10 (kernel 2.6.27.25) . 

I used  usb bt dongle too. I can't say something about the kernel because my distro recognized my usb device out of the box.

Usually  I make a how-to to publish it in my blog, but I have not finished it yet.

To answer right now:


Must be root.


To allow connections  to the linux BT:

sdptool add --channel=1 sp
rfcomm listen 0 1

If you are running these commands in a shell, you'll see a connection message when the color computer successfully connects. 

To automatically login some user to a virtual console on startup add this in /etc/inittab:

S0:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 9600 /dev/rfcomm0 vt100

If you want to test it manually, you can run the agetty command in a terminal after the color computer makes the connection:

/sbin/agetty 9600 /dev/rfcomm0 vt100

To avoid echo in the color computer terminal I used this command:

stty /dev/rfcomm0 -echo


 I hadn't tried it with nitros9 because I don't have a multi-pak interface :'( 


I hope it helps

Jorge Machin


> From: gene.heskett at verizon.net
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:28:18 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
> 
> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I did a
> > youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a linux box (as
> > a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless internet connection":
> >
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
> >
> I hadn't tried it with basic, only nitros9.  And right now the bluetooth 
> stuff in the latest linux kernel is not recognizing my usb bt dongle.
> 
> How did you setup linux to do that?  What distro etc.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> >Yes, I can do the same thing with my palm using ssh, but I like more the
> > Color Computer :)
> >
> >
> >Jorge Machin
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
> >
> >--
> >Coco mailing list
> >Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
> 
> clock speed
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 15:58:53 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <4AA655EB.1090601@att.net>
References: <4AA655EB.1090601@att.net>
Message-ID: <317615.47396.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I used a RAM disk all of the time when I had my 512K CoCo3. I had it set to 192K in size, which was sufficient to make sure all of the work files would have enough space. I recommended, in the documentation to DCom, that a RAM disk be used, if possible, for the purpose of speeding up the file access.

Unlike your genealogical database, which might grow in size over time, but not necessarily be deleted between runs of the program, DCom recreates its work files each time it runs, because it is decoding I-Code, and it doesn't know if it is the last module decoded. Each module is different, so the data files for each module had to be recreated.

I used a form of indexing in the files. Each file contained an integer at the beginning of the file that contained the number of records in that file. This was how it knew where the end of the file was for adding records. Each record was a record variable using a user-defined TYPE to define the fields. Finding a specific record was as easy as:

SEEK #filePath,(currentRec-1)*SIZE(recVar)+2

The reason for seeking to currentRec-1 is that the first record is at position 2 (0+SIZE(numRecs)). If I used currentRec instead, and currentRec was equal to 1 (the first record), seeking to currentRec*SIZE(recVar)+2 would position the pointer at 1 (currentRec) * SIZE(recVar) (let's say the record is 40 bytes, so *40 = 40) + 2 = 42. Not the right position for record #1, but is the right position for record #2.

Unpack still uses this form for record files, but has major differences. First, each work file is created and identified as to which module it was derived from, so I only have to delete the file if the same module is being decoded. Second, the files are all different from DCom 's style, and there are fewer files.

You can tell the difference when a procedure has many variables. One program I am testing with has over 150 total program variables defined. Including the Mirrors (my term for the copy Basic09 creates when using the variable being assigned a value in the calculation for that value), this procedure has over 500 references in the instruction code. Of those, over 200 of them are unique. As the variables file grows, it obviously takes longer for unpack to a) determine if that reference has already been identified, b) if it hasn't, once it's been identified, search the variables file again to see if a mirror (or an original variable if it is a mirror) exists, and c)  add the new record.

DCom itself has over 800 references in the instruction code for variables. Even with a RAM disk, DCom took about a half-hour decoding itself. Unpack is faster, but by the time I'm through with it, the disk operations that are needed to sort the files that need sorting, modifying fields that need to be modified, tieing everything together and producing the correct output could make it as slow overall as DCom. It would be much faster, I believe, to be able to load the file data into a buffer and manipulate it there.

I never knew there was a way to check and see which CoCo you were running. I mean, yea, 64K or greater memory = CC2 or 3, but even a CoCo1 could be upgraded to 64K. Perhaps the ROMs have the info needed to determine which CoCo is being used?

Wayne


      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Sep  9 16:16:26 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:16:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] ramdisk was Re:  Emulator
In-Reply-To: <2601872E-7577-4D73-9675-0A94A512CEF5@tee-boy.com>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA501A4.2090207@worldnet.att.net>
	<951484.15774.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200909072313.25513.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
	<20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
	<2601872E-7577-4D73-9675-0A94A512CEF5@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <20090909201626.GA15015@virgo.sdc.org>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 04:44:15PM -0500, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:

> I think Gene's myram would be an improvement over Darling's version,  
> based on what Gene describes.  I'm all for putting myram into the  
> distro, but like I said, I just don't have the time to do it right now.

No objections.  I've never used the Tandy ramdisk.  I take it it was
bad?

> Reminds me... I owe you tok source.  Will get that to you straight away.

No hurry, I'm just glad YOU have it. ;-)  I know I hate it like mad
when I loose source... 

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:18:01 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:18:01 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
In-Reply-To: <317615.47396.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4AA655EB.1090601@att.net>
	<317615.47396.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909091318y5caa667fp5b7156c164bad087@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/9/09, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>
> I never knew there was a way to check and see which CoCo you were running. I
> mean, yea, 64K or greater memory = CC2 or 3, but even a CoCo1 could be
> upgraded to 64K. Perhaps the ROMs have the info needed to determine which
> CoCo is being used?
>
---

A simple way to tell if you are running on a CoCo 3 is to look at the
reset vector. Reading address $FFFF will return $1B on a CoCo 3 and
$27 on a 1 / 2.

Darren


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Sep  9 16:27:26 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:27:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] ramdisk was Re:  Emulator
In-Reply-To: <200909082214.59507.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W52471048D94BD37E1C538BB2ED0@phx.gbl>
	<23F18B0F-2407-488F-B049-AC61BAEB42D7@tee-boy.com>
	<20090908204358.GA14969@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200909082214.59507.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090909202726.GB15015@virgo.sdc.org>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:14:59PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> No, I believe that is still the case Willard.  But Kevin D's ramdisk is a 
> little too hard coded, falling over at slightly over 500kb in size, 

Heh.  That's one restriction I was never in a position to encounter. 

> But at the speed I work on this stuff of late, don't hold your breath. :)

No big hurry that I know of...

> Science is to computer science as hydrodynamics is to plumbing.

Actually, that mostly works.  Plumbing is applied hydrodynamics.  CS
is applied math.  

I've done plumbing and computer science.  Frankly, I'd rather sit in
front of a terminal all day rather then crawl around in ice-cold
sewage all day.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 19:04:35 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:04:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W199B6F38A5C959CE2A02E3E5E90@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
	<200909091028.18685.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<SNT109-W199B6F38A5C959CE2A02E3E5E90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200909091904.35191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Sorry if my English is very bad :P
>
>I tested the configuration first on my desktop using Fedora 11 (kernel
> 2.6.30.5)  and make the youtube video on my  laptop using Fedora 10
> (kernel 2.6.27.25) .
>
>I used  usb bt dongle too. I can't say something about the kernel because
> my distro recognized my usb device out of the box.
>
>Usually  I make a how-to to publish it in my blog, but I have not finished
> it yet.
>
>To answer right now:
>
>
>Must be root.
>
A given
>
>To allow connections  to the linux BT:
>
>sdptool add --channel=1 sp
>rfcomm listen 0 1
>
Did this, looks like it worked, rfcomm is hung.  We had a 2 second power 
outage about noonish and I haven't restarted the coco with the correct boot 
disk since.  I overdid it today, putting a roof on my boat shed, which is not 
quite done, so it will be tomorrow at least before I tackle this again.

>If you are running these commands in a shell, you'll see a connection
> message when the color computer successfully connects.

I have never ran that eprom from basic, so I'll be a bit green regarding that 
too.

>To automatically login some user to a virtual console on startup add this
> in /etc/inittab:
>
>S0:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 9600 /dev/rfcomm0 vt100
>
>If you want to test it manually, you can run the agetty command in a
> terminal after the color computer makes the connection:
>
>/sbin/agetty 9600 /dev/rfcomm0 vt100
>
>To avoid echo in the color computer terminal I used this command:
>
>stty /dev/rfcomm0 -echo
>
>
> I hadn't tried it with nitros9 because I don't have a multi-pak interface
> :'(
>
>
>I hope it helps
>
I'm sure it will help.  Thank you very much.

>Jorge Machin
>
>> From: gene.heskett at verizon.net
>> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:28:18 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
>>
>> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>> >Hi
>> >
>> >As part of my entertainment with the Deluxe Wireless RS-232, I did a
>> > youtube video showing how I can hook my Color Computer  to a linux box
>> > (as a serial terminal) so I can have a kind of "wireless internet
>> > connection":
>> >
>> >
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
>>
>> I hadn't tried it with basic, only nitros9.  And right now the bluetooth
>> stuff in the latest linux kernel is not recognizing my usb bt dongle.
>>
>> How did you setup linux to do that?  What distro etc.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> >Yes, I can do the same thing with my palm using ssh, but I like more the
>> > Color Computer :)
>> >
>> >
>> >Jorge Machin
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
>> >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
>> >
>> >--
>> >Coco mailing list
>> >Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
>http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gall
>ery-edit.aspx
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Nachman's Rule:
	When it comes to foreign food, the less authentic the better.
		-- Gerald Nachman


From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  9 19:24:59 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 18:24:59 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <200909091904.35191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
	<200909091028.18685.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<SNT109-W199B6F38A5C959CE2A02E3E5E90@phx.gbl> 
	<200909091904.35191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W330E138C8EFB5954749C19E5E90@phx.gbl>


> From: gene.heskett at verizon.net
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:04:35 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
> 
> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:


>I have never ran that eprom from basic, so I'll be a bit green regarding that 
>too.
If you decide to give it a try, you have to do this:


exec &HC000 for Coco 2

or 

exec 57360 for Coco 3


1. After the menu appears, set Baud Rate to 9600 pressing the B key several times and  set to "upper and lower case" mode  pressing the U key.

2. press escape key

3. press enter key ( a > sign appears )

4. Connect to linux using the comand con and the MAC address "con ##.##.##.##.##.##<enter>"

If all goes well, you'll get the linux login screen.



Jorge Machin


_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx

From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 19:34:20 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:34:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W330E138C8EFB5954749C19E5E90@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT109-W39D3442CCF90C3145D22AE5E90@phx.gbl>
	<200909091904.35191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<SNT109-W330E138C8EFB5954749C19E5E90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200909091934.21014.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>> From: gene.heskett at verizon.net
>> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:04:35 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] Using a Color Computer as a "Dump Terminal"
>>
>> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
>>
>>
>>I have never ran that eprom from basic, so I'll be a bit green regarding
>> that too.
>
>If you decide to give it a try, you have to do this:
>
>
>exec &HC000 for Coco 2
>
>or
>
>exec 57360 for Coco 3
>
>
>1. After the menu appears, set Baud Rate to 9600 pressing the B key several
> times and  set to "upper and lower case" mode  pressing the U key.
>
>2. press escape key
>
>3. press enter key ( a > sign appears )
>
>4. Connect to linux using the comand con and the MAC address "con
> ##.##.##.##.##.##<enter>"
>
>If all goes well, you'll get the linux login screen.
>

Thanks again.
>
>Jorge Machin
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Grange: "Scrawny."

Mal: "Milk and hay, three times a day, fed to them by beautiful women."

Jayne: "It was something to see."
				--Episode #5, "Safe"


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  9 19:56:43 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:56:43 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Old forum nicknames
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909184120.0612d8c8@coco3.com>

In an attempt to give archived forum posts back to their respectful 
owner's accounts in the new article system, it would help if I knew 3 
things.... and I know this is an odd request...

your nickname in the forums from 2004-2007
your nickname in the current *forums* at coco3.com
your nickname in the new coco3.com blog

As I mentioned earlier, everything is bring brought into the 
blog/article system and the old systems will be removed.  This 
content can later be exchanged with many other systems if needed.

Even if you don't know this information or don't care, your old posts 
will still be reposted in the new system, but the owner will become 
the admin.  However, the tagling of each post will show the original 
author's nickname, date/time, etc. so it can be figured out later who 
to link them to in the future.

Now, some of you use nicknames that are obvious to me, so I probably 
won't need any response from you.  During the import, the system will 
ask me what current user to map an old nickname to.
Names like manny, 6809er, boisy, briza, etc. are standard names I can 
figure out easily even if there's slight variations.

I guess the best thing to do is just sign up at the new 
www.coco3.com/community site and please try to use the same nickname 
(or close) that you've used across the old forums.  This will help a 
LOT and might even allow the importer to map old content to your new 
account automatically, so all of your old forum posts you thought 
were Lost In Time, are not only reborn but are linked to your account 
so you can edit them and make corrections if needed.


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 20:51:19 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] I need help with intermediate-level Basic09
Message-ID: <331418.98268.qm@web53704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

possibly through the use of low-level explanations. I have reached the point where I have done all I can do to identify everything contained in the I-Code modules. While I have the original header to Basic09, and have been able to identify the vast majority of the tokens, there are a few that defy me.

I'm including below the beginning of the document I have prepared for anyone interested in learning more about it. It is a 10K file, and that is why I'm only posting the Introduction. Email me if you are interested.

Unfortunately, I don't know if I have permission to share the header file. It is copyright protected, and I've not heard of any source-material being made available to anyone who wants it. If I can determine the legality of sharing it, I can then know if I have permission. It was provided to me, as far as I understood it, for my expressed purpose of trying to unravel the I-Code myself. I don't know if sharing it to try and answer questions, which I am not educated enough to understand, qualifies as reasonable use.

Introduction

While I have been able to decipher most of the I-Code generated by Basic09 when
it packs procedures, there are still some things I do not know how to
interpret. I am presenting this in the form of a memory module layout, so you
can understand what occurs where. This may help in determining what it means,
and how to interpret it.

Because I know so little about assembly language programming, and machine
language in general, I don't know if I am even close to what these things are, 
or what they mean. I just know they exist, and I would like to understand their 
purpose and use.

Contents

Module Header Definition          - 3 points of interest
Module Body                                - 2 points of interest
Data Storage Allocation Table  - 2 points of interest
Variable Declaration Table        - 0 points of interest

Terms

I have, over time, created some terms that help me describe some things in a 
single word, instead of a phrase, or a label phrase that, to me, makes more 
sense. I list them here:

My name/phrase                          Basic09 Header name/phrase
-----------------------------                   --------------------------
Data Storage Allocation Table   Description area
Variable Declaration Table         Symbol Table
vector                                             1 Dimensional Array
table                                               2 Dimensional Array
matrix                                             3 Dimensional Array
record                                            user-defined variable
struct                                              RECORD (TYPE)

I know that, technically, any array is a matrix. Using vector, table, and 
matrix as labels just simplifies reference to those variable types.

Wayne


      


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep  9 23:22:47 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:22:47 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>



You might find this interesting, before or after it's done.

The project is underway to blog-ify every possible CoCo web posting 
to date, before Google gets it all and owns us.  I understand that 
Google or Yahoo already host some of "our" message archives?

But who deletes all this stuff the big dogs "aquire"?  Surely it's 
still all out there on some server or web page free to view or download.

Most of the data I've found is in simple ASCII format that I can 
process by reading simple headers, and then build xml import files 
fairly easily.  I'm not that good with processing the SQL query files 
from my past forums so thankfully Lothan has given some time to crank 
out what is looking like a sure-thing to bring back 4,000 to 5,000 
CoCo Forum messages from 2004 to 2009.

To Steve Bjork and the others who lost posts... I won't let you down. 
I'll get it all back for us... just give me some time.  By Christmas 
I should have a breathtaking CoCo archive at your fingertips.

The goal is to have a place you can drop into without even logging 
in, and just start clicking away and searching CoCo categories and 
posts/comments posted as far back as 1984, for example.

The bad part... those damn ALL CAPS messages we used to enjoy... what 
to do with those...  maybe for historical purposes they should stay as-is.

I have:
1990 - 1996 Compuserve CoCo posts (but where is prior to 1990 ?)
2003 - 2009 mailing list posts (this list)
Princeton mailing list posts (but where are they now?)


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 23:34:53 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I wonder how many of the Rainbow's One-Liners would be completely useless without GOTO.

Bob


      


From lothan at newsguy.com  Wed Sep  9 23:59:55 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 23:59:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>

Does anyone have an archive of the Delphi Color Computer and/or OS-9 SIG 
forum messages?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:22 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project

>
>
> You might find this interesting, before or after it's done.
>
> The project is underway to blog-ify every possible CoCo web posting to 
> date, before Google gets it all and owns us.  I understand that Google or 
> Yahoo already host some of "our" message archives?
>
> But who deletes all this stuff the big dogs "aquire"?  Surely it's still 
> all out there on some server or web page free to view or download.
>
> Most of the data I've found is in simple ASCII format that I can process 
> by reading simple headers, and then build xml import files fairly easily. 
> I'm not that good with processing the SQL query files from my past forums 
> so thankfully Lothan has given some time to crank out what is looking like 
> a sure-thing to bring back 4,000 to 5,000 CoCo Forum messages from 2004 to 
> 2009.
>
> To Steve Bjork and the others who lost posts... I won't let you down. I'll 
> get it all back for us... just give me some time.  By Christmas I should 
> have a breathtaking CoCo archive at your fingertips.
>
> The goal is to have a place you can drop into without even logging in, and 
> just start clicking away and searching CoCo categories and posts/comments 
> posted as far back as 1984, for example.
>
> The bad part... those damn ALL CAPS messages we used to enjoy... what to 
> do with those...  maybe for historical purposes they should stay as-is.
>
> I have:
> 1990 - 1996 Compuserve CoCo posts (but where is prior to 1990 ?)
> 2003 - 2009 mailing list posts (this list)
> Princeton mailing list posts (but where are they now?)
>
>
> -- 
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
> really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From adit at nationsdial.com  Thu Sep 10 00:02:03 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4F158C5F-930C-4279-8076-8C25DEDCFB19@nationsdial.com>


On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:22 PM, Roger Taylor wrote:

> I have:
> 1990 - 1996 Compuserve CoCo posts (but where is prior to 1990 ?)
> 2003 - 2009 mailing list posts (this list)
> Princeton mailing list posts (but where are they now?)

Roger,

In the CoCo/OS-9 Archive I have some FIDO  and Delphi posts as well  
as Princeton posts from 91-04. How complete anything is anyone's  
guess but I have a little of everything here (one of the purposes of  
the archive). Anybody have any StG SIG or other CoCo BBS message  
bases out there? In any case, let me know what you want.

Dean


From lothan at newsguy.com  Thu Sep 10 00:07:29 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:07:29 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net><5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com><DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire><30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>

Or how many people would have never started programming because they 
couldn't write the infamous "Hello CoCo"

10 PRINT "HELLO BOB"
20 GOTO 10


--------------------------------------------------
From: "theother_bob" <theother_bob at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:34 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability

> I wonder how many of the Rainbow's One-Liners would be completely useless 
> without GOTO.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Sep 10 07:49:28 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:49:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Lothan wrote:
>Does anyone have an archive of the Delphi Color Computer and/or OS-9 SIG
>forum messages?
>
I may have some of the delphi stuff, I'll have to look & let the list know.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Can't open /usr/share/games/fortunes/fortunes.dat.

Oh oh, trouble has come calling it seems.  Darn.


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Thu Sep 10 08:37:23 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>

Delphi forums for some years are here:
http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/

On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:49 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Lothan wrote:
>> Does anyone have an archive of the Delphi Color Computer and/or  
>> OS-9 SIG
>> forum messages?
>>
> I may have some of the delphi stuff, I'll have to look & let the  
> list know.
>
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants  
> them.
> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
>
> Can't open /usr/share/games/fortunes/fortunes.dat.
>
> Oh oh, trouble has come calling it seems.  Darn.
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 09:02:24 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:02:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580909100602x5dec9826nea8a7bd0d746245e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Boisy G. Pitre <boisy at tee-boy.com> wrote:

> Delphi forums for some years are here:
> http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:49 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>  On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Lothan wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone have an archive of the Delphi Color Computer and/or OS-9 SIG
>>> forum messages?
>>>
>>>  I may have some of the delphi stuff, I'll have to look & let the list
>> know.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Gene
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
>> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
>>
>> Can't open /usr/share/games/fortunes/fortunes.dat.
>>
>> Oh oh, trouble has come calling it seems.  Darn.
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Boisy G. Pitre
> E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
> Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/


Some files still alive in what's left of the old CoCo SIG in Compuserve. I
took PDF snapshots of the 'index' retrieved after searching with the keyword
COCO. The Vintage Computing forum treats the files it hosts as if they were
messages with attachments, it is an awkward way to search; this has the
disadvantage of missing any files that may not have COCO in their
description or could have been posted as CO CO or COLOR COMPUTER. Still, the
4 pdf documents listed below will give  a general idea of what is available
there.

Apologies on the ads and extra stuff, couldn't find a faster more convenient
way to retrieve a catalog of files,at least will let you browse without
having to register:

http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2001.pdf
http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2002.pdf
http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2003.pdf
http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2004.pdf



-- Rogelio


From farna at att.net  Thu Sep 10 09:26:34 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:26:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Emulator
Message-ID: <4AA8FE8A.1030106@att.net>

You had to call me out on that, didn't you? It's been a long time!! Actually, that's exactly what I did... I think. My program had to have an 80 column screen, and would only run on a CC3 with monitor because of that. I forget if I checked for more than 64K or checked for the DECB version. The later will tell you what CoCo you have, or the BASIC ROM version would be more accurate. In other BASIC programs I just checked for the least common denominator. If it required disk and 64K (or more), check for one, and if present check for the other. I might have required 512K, but don't think so. Even a 128K machine could use a 32K or so ram disk for the main menu program for a bit faster operation, but I really don't recall what I did as far as memory requirements. 

You're right about the CC1 and 64K... and even the ROM could be upgraded, so you really can't tell what CC model you have in software. But that is irrelevant, as a fully upgraded CC1 has all the capabilities of a later CC2, and the capabilities is what you're really testing for. There are some peeks to check the ROM and memory, just don't recall them. 

-------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>

I never knew there was a way to check and see which CoCo you were running. I mean, yea, 64K or greater memory = CC2 or 3, but even a CoCo1 could be upgraded to 64K. Perhaps the ROMs have the info needed to determine which CoCo is being used?

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 11:00:58 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:00:58 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net><5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com><DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire><30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>

That would scroll down the screen with "HELLO BOB".
 If you just want it to print once.

10 PRINT "HELLO BOB"
20 GOTO 20

John Donaldson




Lothan wrote:
> Or how many people would have never started programming because they 
> couldn't write the infamous "Hello CoCo"
>
> 10 PRINT "HELLO BOB"
> 20 GOTO 10
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "theother_bob" <theother_bob at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:34 PM
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
>
>> I wonder how many of the Rainbow's One-Liners would be completely 
>> useless without GOTO.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


-- 


From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 11:38:01 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:38:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:00 AM, John Donaldson <
johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> That would scroll down the screen with "HELLO BOB".
> If you just want it to print once.
>
> 10 PRINT "HELLO BOB"
> 20 GOTO 20
>
> John Donaldson
>

I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing stuff
like:

10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT

"Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)



-- Rogelio


From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 11:42:57 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:42:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Ebay shenanigans
Message-ID: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>

I bought my MC-10 when it was being discontinued by Radio Shack, think it
was $80.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290348175736

Just waiting to see where that one goes :-)


-- Rogelio


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 11:43:26 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:43:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/09, Rogelio Perea wrote:
>
> I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing stuff
> like:
>
> 10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
>
> "Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)
>
---

You could also use a step value of 0 as in:

10 FOR I=0 TO 1 STEP 0:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:NEXT


Darren


From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 11:46:15 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:46:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580909100846u4d0b13cfpd4f3a625ec18593e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Darren A <mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/10/09, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> >
> > I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing
> stuff
> > like:
> >
> > 10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
> >
> > "Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)
> >
> ---
>
> You could also use a step value of 0 as in:
>
> 10 FOR I=0 TO 1 STEP 0:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:NEXT
>
>
> Darren
>


And that is why I LOVE Basic, specially on the CoCo. It will be interesting
to find out how far this will go on...



-- Rogelio


From badfrog at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 12:10:43 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Ebay shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909100910g77fd940ck6205604222d1998a@mail.gmail.com>

Seems just a bit high.  I bought a complete-in-box one on ebay for
$14.99 a couple years ago.  But I wish you luck!

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Rogelio Perea <os9dude at gmail.com> wrote:
> I bought my MC-10 when it was being discontinued by Radio Shack, think it
> was $80.00
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290348175736
>
> Just waiting to see where that one goes :-)
>
>
> -- Rogelio
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 12:11:13 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:11:13 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909100602x5dec9826nea8a7bd0d746245e@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
	<5631e580909100602x5dec9826nea8a7bd0d746245e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910111002.06105d10@coco3.com>

At 08:02 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote:

>Apologies on the ads and extra stuff, couldn't find a faster more convenient
>way to retrieve a catalog of files,at least will let you browse without
>having to register:
>
>http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2001.pdf
>http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2002.pdf
>http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2003.pdf
>http://cocomc10.pereanet.com/Vintage%20Computing%20-%20CoCo%20files%2004.pdf
>
>
>
>-- Rogelio



Wow.  I see posts from 1984.  However, screenshots or front-ends are 
hard to use to access the actual data.


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 12:13:25 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:13:25 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>

At 07:37 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>Delphi forums for some years are here:
>http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/



Thanks.  It looks like the Compuserve files are what I have now but 
I'd have to compare them.  The Delphi and BBS content looks great.


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 10 12:27:25 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:27:25 -0500
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>


Darren:

10 PRINT "HELLO WORD":RUN

Technically, there is no goto :P

Jorge Machin

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:43:26 -0600
> From: mechacoco at gmail.com
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
> 
> On 9/10/09, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> >
> > I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing stuff
> > like:
> >
> > 10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
> >
> > "Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)
> >
> ---
> 
> You could also use a step value of 0 as in:
> 
> 10 FOR I=0 TO 1 STEP 0:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:NEXT
> 
> 
> Darren
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From benbleau at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 13:12:06 2009
From: benbleau at gmail.com (Benoit Bleau)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:12:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>	<5631e580909080540s3e3dc95xc23fd7f569c741c5@mail.gmail.com>	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA93366.4010905@gmail.com>

Here's another technical no-goto:

10 A=PEEK(167) : PRINT "HELLO WORLD "; : POKE 167,A

-Benoit
Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
> Darren:
>
> 10 PRINT "HELLO WORD":RUN
>
> Technically, there is no goto :P
>
> Jorge Machin
>
>   
>> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:43:26 -0600
>> From: mechacoco at gmail.com
>> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
>>
>> On 9/10/09, Rogelio Perea wrote:
>>     
>>> I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing stuff
>>> like:
>>>
>>> 10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
>>>
>>> "Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)
>>>
>>>       
>> ---
>>
>> You could also use a step value of 0 as in:
>>
>> 10 FOR I=0 TO 1 STEP 0:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:NEXT
>>
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>     
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   



From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 14:30:59 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:30:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>

I can certainly go into each one and get whatever attachment it carries
along with the message, could take a bit of time.
I'll start with the oldest (1983 or so) and proceed. Will post progress
here...



-- Rogelio


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:

> At 07:37 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Delphi forums for some years are here:
>> http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/
>>
>
>
>
> Thanks.  It looks like the Compuserve files are what I have now but I'd
> have to compare them.  The Delphi and BBS content looks great.
>
>
> --
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never
> really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 14:40:23 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:40:23 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>
	<5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910133852.0610f620@coco3.com>

At 01:30 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>I can certainly go into each one and get whatever attachment it carries
>along with the message, could take a bit of time.
>I'll start with the oldest (1983 or so) and proceed. Will post progress
>here...
>
>-- Rogelio


That sounds like two months worth of work and an endless supply of 
Maxwell House... excuse me.. Folgers.
Surely there's got to be some posted form of the overall content?

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From lothan at newsguy.com  Thu Sep 10 15:32:17 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:32:17 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com><502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire><200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net><25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com><6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>
	<5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C72D97D53E7947E1BF8F92B097EBA23A@Crossfire>

I may be making things up in my old age, but I could have sworn I saw a 
nearly full archive of the Delphi OS-9 SIG messages in text format somewhere 
on the 'net. I can't find anything resembling it on my LAN and darned if I 
remember where I saw it. I know I downloaded it and stored it locally 
because I remember trying to parse the messages into computer-readable 
format.

I'll keep digging around to see if I can find it.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rogelio Perea" <os9dude at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:30 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project

> I can certainly go into each one and get whatever attachment it carries
> along with the message, could take a bit of time.
> I'll start with the oldest (1983 or so) and proceed. Will post progress
> here...
>
>
>
> -- Rogelio
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
>
>> At 07:37 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>> Delphi forums for some years are here:
>>> http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.  It looks like the Compuserve files are what I have now but I'd
>> have to compare them.  The Delphi and BBS content looks great.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
>> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never
>> really complained, but here's mine:
>> ~ Roger Taylor
>> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From cdiman7 at flash.net  Thu Sep 10 18:09:37 2009
From: cdiman7 at flash.net (Karl Sefcik)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:09:37 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCoFest ideas
In-Reply-To: <4AA72B39.7010408@flash.net>
References: <DE1E6DF4-27AE-4525-A085-C03F004208DD@tee-boy.com>
	<4AA72B39.7010408@flash.net>
Message-ID: <4AA97921.4090003@flash.net>

Hey CoCoers,

    I hope this goes through, you see my trail of responses.
   Anyway, long story short, I contacted Park University today, and 
there is a person that handles conferences, he was out today. But 
talking to the person in the alumni office, if we were to meet over the 
summer, they don'
t use all their dorm space, and a newer room could be had for (her 
estimate) about 80/night/2. The older college dorm rooms can be had for 
about $20/night/?, and there could be food service available.  They have 
available rooms in their underground caves, with a door that could be 
locked, tables available, power, etc.
    Anyway, I'll keep poking around, it would be cool to one-up 
Rockhurst and the Apple 2 group.
Karl Sefcik

Karl Sefcik wrote:
> Boisy,
> 
>   Familiar with the area, Rockhurst University (then a college) was in 
> my college's (Park)(now a university too) basketball (and other sports) 
> league.
>    Now instead of meeting at Rockhurst, my college has a cave with lots 
> of room, guaranteed a unique setting.
> 
> 
>     The home page
> http://www.park.edu/
> 
> And the underground, which would be kinda funny, the coco going 
> underground.
> 
> During the summer, I bet they could find room in the cave for one of our 
> shows, maybe at regular fest time too. They don't have the underground 
> tour as a separate thing on their homepage, but as an alumni, I will do 
> some calling and see what can come up.
> 
> In the mean time, you can go to the INSIDE PARK VIDEO TOUR,
>  click on that
> then click on the first topic,
> ABOUT PARK UNIVERSITY,
> there are some scenes of the underground, which is all limestone walls.
> Next, click on
> PARKVILLE CAMPUS,
> there are some additional scenes of the underground.
> 
> It's got to cost less than the $1500 for the Atlanta Fest that Al Dages 
> had to negotiate with.
> 
> Besides, we might pick up some more attendees from the university there, 
> which now has a computer science program (they didn't when I was a 
> student there, but that was before the Coco too).
> 
> Karl Sefcik
> 
> Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>> I ran across an interesting website for KansasFest 
>> (www.kansasfest.org), a website for a yearly Apple II festival held in 
>> Kansas City.  They hold their event during a week, and it's done at a 
>> University, not a hotel.  Their website is quite nice, and I thought I 
>> would pass this along in the interest of fostering new ideas for our 
>> own fest.
>> -- 
>> Boisy G. Pitre
>> E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
>> Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> 
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 10 18:47:21 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:47:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <3C6D7FD2F52D4DD0B0158ECD86BACC91@Dell3Gig>

In my files I've got two massive Delphi msg files that reportedly cover from
August 85 to May 2001, plus individual 1990, 1993, 1994 and 1995 message
directories.  Not sure on completeness.  The readmes indicate that there are
about 50,000 messages there.

I have Coco/OS-9 FIDO message logs from 1993 to 1999.  Again, not sure on
completeness or content. 

For compuserve, I have directories for 1990 thru 1995, plus a series of
files for the individual interest areas like applications, Coco, language,
music, ect...  From looking thru them, there are missing months, but still,
its an awful lot of stuff.


 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:23 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
> 
> 
> 
> You might find this interesting, before or after it's done.
> 
> The project is underway to blog-ify every possible CoCo web 
> posting to date, before Google gets it all and owns us.  I 
> understand that Google or Yahoo already host some of "our" 
> message archives?
> 
> But who deletes all this stuff the big dogs "aquire"?  Surely 
> it's still all out there on some server or web page free to 
> view or download.
> 
> Most of the data I've found is in simple ASCII format that I 
> can process by reading simple headers, and then build xml 
> import files fairly easily.  I'm not that good with 
> processing the SQL query files from my past forums so 
> thankfully Lothan has given some time to crank out what is 
> looking like a sure-thing to bring back 4,000 to 5,000 CoCo 
> Forum messages from 2004 to 2009.
> 
> To Steve Bjork and the others who lost posts... I won't let you down. 
> I'll get it all back for us... just give me some time.  By 
> Christmas I should have a breathtaking CoCo archive at your 
> fingertips.
> 
> The goal is to have a place you can drop into without even 
> logging in, and just start clicking away and searching CoCo 
> categories and posts/comments posted as far back as 1984, for example.
> 
> The bad part... those damn ALL CAPS messages we used to 
> enjoy... what to do with those...  maybe for historical 
> purposes they should stay as-is.
> 
> I have:
> 1990 - 1996 Compuserve CoCo posts (but where is prior to 1990 ?)
> 2003 - 2009 mailing list posts (this list) Princeton mailing 
> list posts (but where are they now?)
> 
> 
> --
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, 
> I've never really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Thu Sep 10 19:13:53 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:13:53 +1000
Subject: [Coco] Ebay shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA98831.2080301@iinet.net.au>

Rogelio Perea wrote:

> Just waiting to see where that one goes :-)

 From the Australian movie "The Castle" - "Tell 'em they're dreamin', son!"

I was given an MC-10 a couple of years ago. I powered it on once to check 
that it worked, and it sat in my cupboard for another year. Then I saw that 
someone local-ish was looking for one - so I sent it to them gratis. Hope I 
didn't do myself out of USD$75! :O :P

I've got a nice collection of retro computers but never had any interest in 
the MC-10 so it was probably never going to be used by me. I thought it best 
to give it to someone that was actually going to get some use out of it.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 21:24:28 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:24:28 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <C72D97D53E7947E1BF8F92B097EBA23A@Crossfire>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>
	<5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>
	<C72D97D53E7947E1BF8F92B097EBA23A@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910202046.05b64a38@coco3.com>

At 02:32 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>I may be making things up in my old age, but I could have sworn I 
>saw a nearly full archive of the Delphi OS-9 SIG messages in text 
>format somewhere on the 'net. I can't find anything resembling it on 
>my LAN and darned if I remember where I saw it. I know I downloaded 
>it and stored it locally because I remember trying to parse the 
>messages into computer-readable format.
>
>I'll keep digging around to see if I can find it.


Same here goes for the Compuserve .txt files.  Years ago I tried to 
clean them up but realized it was way too much to tackle totally by 
eye/hand coordination.  The good part is that there shouldn't be any 
HTML encoding issues but just plain text to run through the grinder 
and out comes custom XML for WordPress.

The Delphi stuff and Compuserve both are brand new to me even today.. 
as I was never a member of those services.  However, I remember 
having access to USENET and/or FIDONET at times depending on the local BBS.

Are those messages out there somewhere?


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 21:35:21 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:35:21 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <3C6D7FD2F52D4DD0B0158ECD86BACC91@Dell3Gig>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<3C6D7FD2F52D4DD0B0158ECD86BACC91@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910202515.05b64cc8@coco3.com>

At 05:47 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>In my files I've got two massive Delphi msg files that reportedly cover from
>August 85 to May 2001, plus individual 1990, 1993, 1994 and 1995 message
>directories.  Not sure on completeness.  The readmes indicate that there are
>about 50,000 messages there.
>
>I have Coco/OS-9 FIDO message logs from 1993 to 1999.  Again, not sure on
>completeness or content.
>
>For compuserve, I have directories for 1990 thru 1995, plus a series of
>files for the individual interest areas like applications, Coco, language,
>music, ect...  From looking thru them, there are missing months, but still,
>its an awful lot of stuff.


Let's modernize that stuff and let it live on.  WordPress can import 
it from 15+ formats but the original data will have to be XML'ed in 
some fashion to import it.


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Sep 10 21:55:37 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:55:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200909102155.37649.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 10 September 2009, Rogelio Perea wrote:
>On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:00 AM, John Donaldson <
>
>johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> That would scroll down the screen with "HELLO BOB".
>> If you just want it to print once.
>>
>> 10 PRINT "HELLO BOB"
>> 20 GOTO 20
>>
>> John Donaldson
>
>I loved to mess around with some of my colleagues (YEARS ago) writing stuff
>like:
>
>10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
>
>"Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question :-)
>
Chuckle, sound like some of the stuff I used to do.  Some will never grok 
that either.
>
>-- Rogelio
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Beauty and harmony are as necessary to you as the very breath of life.


From rbihler at msn.com  Thu Sep 10 23:04:40 2009
From: rbihler at msn.com (Ron Bihler)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:04:40 -0600
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP23CD5693AD84F7962AD8FAAFE70@phx.gbl>

Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
> Delphi forums for some years are here:
> http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/
>
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:49 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Lothan wrote:
>>> Does anyone have an archive of the Delphi Color Computer and/or OS-9 
>>> SIG
>>> forum messages?
>>>
>> I may have some of the delphi stuff, I'll have to look & let the list 
>> know.
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers, Gene
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
>> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
>>
>> Can't open /usr/share/games/fortunes/fortunes.dat.
>>
>> Oh oh, trouble has come calling it seems.  Darn.
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> -- 
> Boisy G. Pitre
> E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
> Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
Wow, reading through Ocean Beaches messages.  What a flash to the past ! 
Is there a record of the fido messages from the Coco, os9 and RiBBS 
groups? 

Thanks
Ron



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 10 23:06:42 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:06:42 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910202515.05b64cc8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com><3C6D7FD2F52D4DD0B0158ECD86BACC91@Dell3Gig>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910202515.05b64cc8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <F3F1BE340BB44983845DF97657C72444@Dell3Gig>

Whoever wants them to play with, give me a yell.  My current magazine index
hobby has me booked for the foreseeable future. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:35 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
> 
> At 05:47 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
> >In my files I've got two massive Delphi msg files that 
> reportedly cover 
> >from August 85 to May 2001, plus individual 1990, 1993, 1994 
> and 1995 
> >message directories.  Not sure on completeness.  The readmes 
> indicate 
> >that there are about 50,000 messages there.
> >
> >I have Coco/OS-9 FIDO message logs from 1993 to 1999.  
> Again, not sure 
> >on completeness or content.
> >
> >For compuserve, I have directories for 1990 thru 1995, plus 
> a series of 
> >files for the individual interest areas like applications, Coco, 
> >language, music, ect...  From looking thru them, there are missing 
> >months, but still, its an awful lot of stuff.
> 
> 
> Let's modernize that stuff and let it live on.  WordPress can 
> import it from 15+ formats but the original data will have to 
> be XML'ed in some fashion to import it.
> 
> 
> --
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, 
> I've never really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 23:26:16 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:16 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>


Hear Ye Hear Ye,

The 2004-2007 CoCo Forums have been..... REBORN
www.coco3.com/community/archives


Give Lothan a huge round of applause for cranking out the conversion 
tool and turning the 2004-2007 CoCo Forums into a WordPress import 
file.  You can clearly see that 3 years of posts and comments are 
fully recovered and now exist in the article system.

Some old nicknames were automatically mapped to the same user if he 
was signed up at the new site, and I forced some authors to map to 
their new nicknames, so some of you will see your old posts are 
RECLAIMED under your new account.  Comments/replies that fall under a 
given topic/post will soon be assigned to their rightful poster, but 
give me time with this.

AND

About the 2007-2009 CoCo Forums (still online):

If Steve Bjork and the handful of hacker-attempt victims are reading:

I see 60+ posts for Steve Bjork (6809er) hidden in the SQL 
database.  Nothing is lost.

Steve gave me a certain amount of time to come up with a solution.  I 
had no solution until days ago.  I'm a very busy man but when I saw 
that he "left", it prompted me to stop everything for a few days and 
focus on not only fixing the forum problem but moving even further 
ahead by gathering up every Bjork post known to exist on the web, as 
well as Yours and Mine...  oh what fun this will be to keep peace in 
the community by bringing us all back together in a way nobody has 
tried before.

I need to rely on other coders and volunteers to make some of this 
happen due to the overwhelming amount of posts at hand.  I should be 
good with most of the text-based content but any SQL data is hard for 
me to process at this time.

Whoever else had their stuff vanish can send me a quick request and 
I'll do a search for your nickname to see about how many posts still 
exist but hidden, just for peace of mind so you can sleep better 
knowing that these posts are coming back....





-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 23:38:27 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:38:27 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <F3F1BE340BB44983845DF97657C72444@Dell3Gig>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<3C6D7FD2F52D4DD0B0158ECD86BACC91@Dell3Gig>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910202515.05b64cc8@coco3.com>
	<F3F1BE340BB44983845DF97657C72444@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910223414.05b49f48@coco3.com>

Obviously I need those copies but then I'll be working with others 
who choose to help with the project, but if the files are the same 
among us there should be no issues.
Anybody can submit a WordPress compatible import file of any archive 
if they like and I'll stay away from those posts to keep from duping 
another's efforts there.
There's plenty to go around, though.




At 10:06 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>Whoever wants them to play with, give me a yell.  My current magazine index
>hobby has me booked for the foreseeable future.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor
> > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:35 PM
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
> >
> > At 05:47 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
> > >In my files I've got two massive Delphi msg files that
> > reportedly cover
> > >from August 85 to May 2001, plus individual 1990, 1993, 1994
> > and 1995
> > >message directories.  Not sure on completeness.  The readmes
> > indicate
> > >that there are about 50,000 messages there.
> > >
> > >I have Coco/OS-9 FIDO message logs from 1993 to 1999.
> > Again, not sure
> > >on completeness or content.
> > >
> > >For compuserve, I have directories for 1990 thru 1995, plus
> > a series of
> > >files for the individual interest areas like applications, Coco,
> > >language, music, ect...  From looking thru them, there are missing
> > >months, but still, its an awful lot of stuff.
> >
> >
> > Let's modernize that stuff and let it live on.  WordPress can
> > import it from 15+ formats but the original data will have to
> > be XML'ed in some fashion to import it.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> > ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years,
> > I've never really complained, but here's mine:
> > ~ Roger Taylor
> > ~ http://www.americafedup.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 10 23:42:25 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:42:25 -0500
Subject: [Coco] user avatars on coco3.com
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910224117.05b4a468@coco3.com>

Hey Manny,

Can you post a tutorial here for others for adding a picture to their 
profile?  You're the only one who's done it so far so you're the 
chosen one, my friend.

Thanks

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 02:29:10 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <962630.69534.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Another variation of an infinite loop, no GOTO used:

10 FOR I=0TO1STEP0:PRINT"HELLO MOTO":NEXT I


This one Wont work though, seems that -10 > 1 in the test (at least in VCC):

10 FOR I=0TO1STEP-10:PRINT"HELLO MOTO":NEXT I


-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra <jorge_machin at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra <jorge_machin at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:27 AM
> 
> Darren:
> 
> 10 PRINT "HELLO WORD":RUN
> 
> Technically, there is no goto :P
> 
> Jorge Machin
> 
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:43:26 -0600
> > From: mechacoco at gmail.com
> > To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
> > 
> > On 9/10/09, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> > >
> > > 10 FOR I=0 TO 1:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:I=0:NEXT
> > >
> > > "Where's the GOTO 10?" was the initial question
> :-)
> > >
> > ---
> > 
> > You could also use a step value of 0 as in:
> > 
> > 10 FOR I=0 TO 1 STEP 0:PRINT"HELLO WORLD ";:NEXT
> > 
> > 
> > Darren



      


From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Fri Sep 11 02:30:26 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:30:26 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910133852.0610f620@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910111126.06105fa0@coco3.com>	<5631e580909101130g69a74898u19e2c70f7c1cfe68@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090910133852.0610f620@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <003501ca32a9$597e1f20$0c7a5d60$@com>

Step up to Green Mountain coffee...

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Taylor
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:40 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project

At 01:30 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>I can certainly go into each one and get whatever attachment it carries
>along with the message, could take a bit of time.
>I'll start with the oldest (1983 or so) and proceed. Will post progress
>here...
>
>-- Rogelio


That sounds like two months worth of work and an endless supply of 
Maxwell House... excuse me.. Folgers.
Surely there's got to be some posted form of the overall content?

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2357 - Release Date: 09/09/09
17:50:00



From os9dude at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 04:59:19 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 04:59:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580909110159n4787cf9fyf49217001cc08d7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:

>
> Hear Ye Hear Ye,
>
> The 2004-2007 CoCo Forums have been..... REBORN
> www.coco3.com/community/archives
>
>
> Give Lothan a huge round of applause for cranking out the conversion tool
> and turning the 2004-2007 CoCo Forums into a WordPress import file.  You can
> clearly see that 3 years of posts and comments are fully recovered and now
> exist in the article system.
>



Awesome work Roger & supporting cast :-)


-- Rogelio


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 11:11:37 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:11:37 -0600
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <4AA93366.4010905@gmail.com>
References: <1D19DA33-7E8B-45E2-9D87-3938945AEDD9@verizon.net>
	<DC6ED6F7550941EEBDB13A2D9499C916@Crossfire>
	<30774196-2521-40FD-A68B-92C80E970148@verizon.net>
	<224476.54359.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2713CFFFCADA4361A2E4DDB29E77F222@Crossfire>
	<4AA914AA.1040301@sbcglobal.net>
	<5631e580909100838o553830ejb2e0c36eba09b6ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0909100843s58333cdbp216de84c51ec02c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>
	<4AA93366.4010905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909110811x442b286o856659f1b5a0c869@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/09, Benoit Bleau wrote:
> Here's another technical no-goto:
>
> 10 A=PEEK(167) : PRINT "HELLO WORLD "; : POKE 167,A
>
---

That's a neat trick, but  it would certainly be more frowned upon than
using a GOTO.  It will only work if the end of the PEEK command and
the end of the POKE command are located within the same 256 byte page.

Darren


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 11:29:35 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:29:35 -0600
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <962630.69534.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT109-W118CF782989D29F314E6B1E5E80@phx.gbl>
	<962630.69534.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909110829i53cee233k374431cd29fc6f72@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/09, Bill Barnes wrote:
>
> This one Wont work though, seems that -10 > 1 in the test (at least in VCC):
>
> 10 FOR I=0TO1STEP-10:PRINT"HELLO MOTO":NEXT I
>
---

When the STEP value is negative, the loop will terminate when the
variable's value is less than the final value.

Darren


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 13:22:06 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] learning assembly
Message-ID: <103620.68013.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It seems that the only way I am ever going to figure out the I-Code issues I still have is to learn assembly, and then figure out how Basic09 deals with the data structures and tables it creates. This may take years, considering that for all the time I've spent trying to learn C and C++, and how difficult a time I still have with it. It is a long way from displaying "Hello, world." to understanding how internal tables are constructed, how that data is manipulated, and how it is converted to a different form.

I have been trying to match up the header file with the "source code" generated by disasm for the version of Basic09 included in Level II, since I believe that is the last revision of Basic09 for the 6x09 processor. Unfortunately, nothing in the disassemble appears to be in the same order the header is in. I have no way to know how the assembler built the object file. Did it read the header in order and then re-organize the data? Or did it read sections of the header, based on instructions in the original source?  I just don't know. I guess I'll find out, some day.

Wayne



      


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Fri Sep 11 19:45:41 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <87A6297C2B6940629C86AC3C902D3C37@Dell3Gig>

Roger, my login on the old site is still good, but not on the new site.  Do
I need to re-register?  Then, once I'm in, I'll see about sending you some
ZIP files with the message logs I have. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:26 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
> 
> 
> Hear Ye Hear Ye,
> 
> The 2004-2007 CoCo Forums have been..... REBORN 
> www.coco3.com/community/archives
> 
> 
> Give Lothan a huge round of applause for cranking out the 
> conversion tool and turning the 2004-2007 CoCo Forums into a 
> WordPress import file.  You can clearly see that 3 years of 
> posts and comments are fully recovered and now exist in the 
> article system.
> 
> Some old nicknames were automatically mapped to the same user 
> if he was signed up at the new site, and I forced some 
> authors to map to their new nicknames, so some of you will 
> see your old posts are RECLAIMED under your new account.  
> Comments/replies that fall under a given topic/post will soon 
> be assigned to their rightful poster, but give me time with this.
> 
> AND
> 
> About the 2007-2009 CoCo Forums (still online):
> 
> If Steve Bjork and the handful of hacker-attempt victims are reading:
> 
> I see 60+ posts for Steve Bjork (6809er) hidden in the SQL 
> database.  Nothing is lost.
> 
> Steve gave me a certain amount of time to come up with a 
> solution.  I had no solution until days ago.  I'm a very busy 
> man but when I saw that he "left", it prompted me to stop 
> everything for a few days and focus on not only fixing the 
> forum problem but moving even further ahead by gathering up 
> every Bjork post known to exist on the web, as well as Yours 
> and Mine...  oh what fun this will be to keep peace in the 
> community by bringing us all back together in a way nobody 
> has tried before.
> 
> I need to rely on other coders and volunteers to make some of 
> this happen due to the overwhelming amount of posts at hand.  
> I should be good with most of the text-based content but any 
> SQL data is hard for me to process at this time.
> 
> Whoever else had their stuff vanish can send me a quick 
> request and I'll do a search for your nickname to see about 
> how many posts still exist but hidden, just for peace of mind 
> so you can sleep better knowing that these posts are coming back....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, 
> I've never really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 11 20:03:32 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:03:32 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com nicknames
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090911185850.05eb88f8@coco3.com>

To those trying to sign up at www.coco3.com/community and perhaps 
getting a "nickname already taken" error, this might be because 
during the import of the 2004-2007 forums, the author's nicknames 
were used to create new accounts.  No e-mail address is associated 
with those accounts yet, so I doubt you can choose "I forgot my 
password" in order to get it (a random password was chosen by WordPress).

If you want the same nickname, e-mail me from the e-mail address you 
want to use for your account and I'll add it so you can log in and 
reclaim your posts and nickname.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 11 20:23:39 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:23:39 -0500
Subject: [Coco] coco3.com nicknames
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090911185850.05eb88f8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090911185850.05eb88f8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090911192009.060d15e8@coco3.com>

At 07:03 PM 9/11/2009, you wrote:
>To those trying to sign up at www.coco3.com/community and perhaps 
>getting a "nickname already taken" error, this might be because 
>during the import of the 2004-2007 forums, the author's nicknames 
>were used to create new accounts.  No e-mail address is associated 
>with those accounts yet, so I doubt you can choose "I forgot my 
>password" in order to get it (a random password was chosen by WordPress).
>
>If you want the same nickname, e-mail me from the e-mail address you 
>want to use for your account and I'll add it so you can log in and 
>reclaim your posts and nickname.



To cut down on the mess involved in all this, I am working to restore 
the e-mail addresses to each nickname ... so if it IS yours, you 
should be able to click Forgot Password and get a confirmation e-mail 
and then get in that way.

If you signed up with a new nickname and want to merge either account 
into the other, WordPress can do this easily.  The idea is to have 
all your forum posts from 2004 to 2009 linked back to your newest 
account and nickname.  If you can bear with me about a week on this, 
I promise it will be worth it as everything is brought into one 
system for good.


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 12 02:47:21 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:47:21 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Archive volunteers?
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090912011914.05dcfe38@coco3.com>

Because there are so many messages to round up, I'm asking for the 
help of others in this project and have included the required XML 
format for those interested.

The following shows a sample XML file that would import 2 posts.  1 
of the posts has 2 comments attached.  It's rather simple.

A post is inside of the <item> element.  Comments to an <item>(post) 
are inside of that <item> element but use a slightly different 
format.  You can see the date format required and other basic 
information for each post or comment.  Basically, the post text goes 
inside of the [CDATA[.....]] tag.  HTML is allowed, with all 
characters output as-is, including carriage returns.  I think the 
only character that might need to be encoded is the [ or ] 
character?  <  and > are to be output as-is.  Some of the HTML 
characters (special) like Non-breakable space is to be output as 
&nbps; etc. so Special characters are to be output in the Special 
character format.

For all-text messages like from a mailing list or old Compuserve 
archive, etc. would go inside of the [CDATA[]] tags as such:

[CDATA[Hello guys,
This is a message with natural carriage returns.
This is a separate line.
However, an HTML line break is to be stored as a <br> since it's HTML.<br>]]

The author nickname should always be "admin" for these types of 
imports because no nicknames from the old archives will be used or 
linked to existing coco3.com accounts.  In other words, no past 
messages will be hijacked in this fashion because it would allow 
further editing or deleting by the user linked to those posts.  My 
own CoCo Forums from 2004-2009 *are* being linked to existing users 
because the messages are coco3.com user messages already.

Once a script is written to take a text file and parse it to obtain 
the post date, author's name, content, the author's name can be added 
to the post as a tagline for reference but no actual e-mail address 
will be shown for obvious privacy reasons.  Nothing private needs to 
be exposed, although all these old posts clearly show the author's 
e-mail address most of the time.  I wouldn't complain if the e-mail 
is broken down as "somebody at somedomain.com" and attached to the 
tagline info, but that is up to the person doing the translation, I guess.

The category tag should really be based on the Domain and Category to 
be separated on coco3.com later.  Like Compuserve CoCo forum, or 
Compuserve OS-9 forum, Delphi CoCo Games, etc.  Just use the whole 
string as the category name, and then the "nice name" should be the 
same string with dashes - for the spaces.  I'll import each of these 
category files separately and sort them to keep things from all being 
in one root category.

If you make a goof on that, I can always find/replace some of the 
strings, so it's no big deal on that.

So far I see the Compuserve, Delphi, and maltedmedia archives 
(possibly the Princeton archives, but where are they?) makes 4 major 
archives that need to be preserved in modern format for easy 
browsing, searching, and reading.

For the first person to offer a working import of any given archive, 
I will give what products I can from my stash of goodies.  Namely, a 
CoCo mug, Super CoCo Archive DVD, EPROM Pak board, Rainbow IDE 
registration, and registered copies of Jeweled and Mary ATB 
games.  Basically everything except the RS-232 Pak which is nearing 
an end of production (pending decision).

Lothan did the hardest work so far by working with an SQL database 
for the forums and it took him a few days to generate a working 
import file, so I feel that processing text-based archives won't be 
nearly as hard, but we'll see.

Any takers?  This will allow me to catch up on past due coco3.com 
orders before people start coming after me.  I'm struggling to catch 
up while also deeply involved in this archive project, but I know 
which chores I have to do first.  Thanks ahead of time for any help 
at all getting our past history brought into a format which "can't die".

Long Live The CoCo.

Roger Taylor



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<rss version="2.0" 
xmlns:excerpt="http://wordpress.org/export/1.0/excerpt/" 
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" 
xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI" 
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" 
xmlns:wp="http://wordpress.org/export/1.0/">
         <channel>
                 <title>The TRS-80/Tandy Color Computer SuperSite</title>
                 <link>http://www.coco3.com/community</link>
                 <description>Home of the CoCo Community</description>
                 <pubDate>2009-09-08 23:56:31</pubDate>
                 <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
                 <language>en</language>
                 <wp:wxr_version>1.0</wp:wxr_version>
                 <wp:base_site_url>http://www.coco3.com/community</wp:base_site_url>
                 <wp:base_blog_url>http://www3.coco3.com/community</wp:base_blog_url>
                 <item>
                         <category><![CDATA[Compuserve]]></category>
                         <category domain="category" 
nicename="compuserve"><![CDATA[CoCo Forum]]></category>
                         <dc:creator><![CDATA[cocotower]]></dc:creator>
                         <title><![CDATA[Welcome to the forums]]></title>
                         <pubDate>2004-04-12 17:15:04</pubDate>
                         <wp:status>publish</wp:status>
                         <wp:post_date>2004-04-12 17:15:04</wp:post_date>
                         <wp:post_date_gmt>2004-04-12 
21:15:04</wp:post_date_gmt>
                         <content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello 
CoCoNuts,<br><br>I hope you enjoy the forums that were recently added 
to the site.<br><br>If there is anything you would like to know about 
the Tandy Color Computer or how to emulate one on your PC, just post 
your questions here.]]></content:encoded>
                 </item>
                 <item>
                         <category><![CDATA[Compuserve]]></category>
                         <category domain="category" 
nicename="compuserve"><![CDATA[CoCo Forum]]></category>
                         <dc:creator><![CDATA[cocotower]]></dc:creator>
                         <title><![CDATA[SuperIDE from Cloud-9]]></title>
                         <pubDate>2004-04-22 04:23:52</pubDate>
                         <wp:status>publish</wp:status>
                         <wp:post_date>2004-04-22 04:23:52</wp:post_date>
                         <wp:post_date_gmt>2004-04-22 
08:23:52</wp:post_date_gmt>
                         <content:encoded><![CDATA[Has anyone ordered 
the SuperIDE Interface from Cloud-9?<br><br>I am wondering if anyone 
has had a chance to experiment with it enough to share some of your 
project ideas, etc.<br><br><img 
src='http://www.coco3.com/img/SuperIDE_b.gif' border='0' alt='user 
posted image' />]]></content:encoded>
                         <wp:comment>
                                 <wp:comment_author><![CDATA[admin]]></wp:comment_author>
                                 <wp:comment_author_email />
                                 <wp:comment_author_url />
                                 <wp:comment_author_IP>24.35.123.116</wp:comment_author_IP>
                                 <wp:comment_date>2004-12-30 
04:33:48</wp:comment_date>
                                 <wp:comment_date_gmt>2004-12-30 
09:33:48</wp:comment_date_gmt>
                                 <wp:comment_content><![CDATA[I just 
ordered one.  He is building it now, so I guess I'll have it sometime 
in January.  Have you tried his SCSI card?  Works really 
well!<br>]]></wp:comment_content>
                                 <wp:comment_approved>1</wp:comment_approved>
                                 <wp:comment_type />
                         </wp:comment>
                         <wp:comment>
                                 <wp:comment_author><![CDATA[admin]]></wp:comment_author>
                                 <wp:comment_author_email />
                                 <wp:comment_author_url />
                                 <wp:comment_author_IP>24.217.64.203</wp:comment_author_IP>
                                 <wp:comment_date>2004-12-30 
12:54:34</wp:comment_date>
                                 <wp:comment_date_gmt>2004-12-30 
17:54:34</wp:comment_date_gmt>
                                 <wp:comment_content><![CDATA[Wow... 
That's quite a BUMP! there...<br><br>BTW, which interface did you 
order? The one with the clock or without? Once you get it, could you 
tell us if it's worth the money?<br><br>-M.<br>]]></wp:comment_content>
                                 <wp:comment_approved>1</wp:comment_approved>
                                 <wp:comment_type />
                         </wp:comment>
                 </item>

         </channel>
</rss>

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com


From manney at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 08:56:25 2009
From: manney at gmail.com (Manny)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:56:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20090912T145258-785@post.gmane.org>

Roger Taylor <operator at ...> writes:

> 
> 
> Hear Ye Hear Ye,

...

 
> If Steve Bjork and the handful of hacker-attempt victims are reading:

...

> Whoever else had their stuff vanish can send me a quick request and 
> I'll do a search for your nickname to see about how many posts still 
> exist but hidden, just for peace of mind so you can sleep better 
> knowing that these posts are coming back....

/me raises hand.

Yup, my stuff is gone as well.  I would appreciate seeing the old post back if
possible.  Please remember that my old nickname was 'mannequin'.  If you could,
I'd love to have it come up under my new nickname.

Thanks.
-M.



From manney at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 08:51:14 2009
From: manney at gmail.com (Manny)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:51:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] user avatars on coco3.com
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910224117.05b4a468@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20090912T143614-421@post.gmane.org>

Roger Taylor <operator at ...> writes:

> 
> Hey Manny,
> 
> Can you post a tutorial here for others for adding a picture to their 
> profile?  You're the only one who's done it so far so you're the 
> chosen one, my friend.
> 
> Thanks
> 

Easy enough.  Go to <http://en.gravatar.com/>  Sign up and upload your avatar. 
It may take a while for it to show up, though.  HTH.

-M.



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 09:52:40 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Ebay shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <4AA98831.2080301@iinet.net.au>
References: <5631e580909100842r6e4c2b86qa5c06cfd2af2d43a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA98831.2080301@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <196219.32688.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark McDougall <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Ebay shenanigans

<snip>
I was given an MC-10 a couple of years ago. I powered it on once to check that it worked, and it sat in my cupboard for another year. Then I saw that someone local-ish was looking for one - so I sent it to them gratis. Hope I didn't do myself out of USD$75! :O :P

Regards,

-- |              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"
--


I wouldn't worry about that. Last year I read a great quote from SMU's new football coach, and in all my travels as the facts unravel I've found this to be true...

"What you give, you get back. What you keep, you lose." - June Jones


      


From random_rodder at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 10:08:05 2009
From: random_rodder at yahoo.com (Brian Blake)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
Message-ID: <965919.90655.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I agree. I love the new format. Much easier for everyone to contribute to articles and such. 

Great job, Roger and everyone helping him restore the old info!!!!


Brian

Sent from Brian's iPhone

On Sep 11, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Rogelio Perea <os9dude at gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:


Hear Ye Hear Ye,

The 2004-2007 CoCo Forums have been..... REBORN
www.coco3.com/community/archives


Give Lothan a huge round of applause for cranking out the conversion tool
and turning the 2004-2007 CoCo Forums into a WordPress import file.  You can
clearly see that 3 years of posts and comments are fully recovered and now
exist in the article system.




Awesome work Roger & supporting cast :-)


-- Rogelio

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      



From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 12 10:09:27 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:09:27 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090912T145258-785@post.gmane.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
	<loom.20090912T145258-785@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090912090701.05da8f98@coco3.com>

At 07:56 AM 9/12/2009, you wrote:
>Roger Taylor <operator at ...> writes:
>
> > Whoever else had their stuff vanish can send me a quick request and
> > I'll do a search for your nickname to see about how many posts still
> > exist but hidden, just for peace of mind so you can sleep better
> > knowing that these posts are coming back....
>
>/me raises hand.
>
>Yup, my stuff is gone as well.  I would appreciate seeing the old post back if
>possible.  Please remember that my old nickname was 'mannequin'.  If 
>you could,
>I'd love to have it come up under my new nickname.
>
>Thanks.
>-M.

Not officially gone. In fact, Bjork's member profile is still there 
in the forums, as is everyone else.  They were not deleted.  Whatever 
is causing certain accounts to be invisible as well as their posts, 
is beyond me... but we're moving away from that for good.

Oh, I did merge your 2004-2007 mannequin posts into the Manny account.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From manney at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 12:04:21 2009
From: manney at gmail.com (Manny)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:04:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
	<loom.20090912T145258-785@post.gmane.org>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090912090701.05da8f98@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20090912T180142-333@post.gmane.org>

Roger Taylor <operator at ...> writes:

> > Please remember that my old nickname was 'mannequin'.  If you could,
> > I'd love to have it come up under my new nickname.

...

> Oh, I did merge your 2004-2007 mannequin posts into the Manny account.

Thanks, Roger.  :)

-M.





From dml_68 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 12:02:05 2009
From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:02:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090910215435.05b49650@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <728305.24844.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Many thanks for your hard work. Most of us would never give up and abandon the coco community because of some malicious cyber vandals. 

Thanks Again for all your work now and in the past Roger.



** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **


 

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:

From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums blogified
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:26 PM


Hear Ye Hear Ye,

The 2004-2007 CoCo Forums have been..... REBORN
www.coco3.com/community/archives


Give Lothan a huge round of applause for cranking out the conversion tool and turning the 2004-2007 CoCo Forums into a WordPress import file.? You can clearly see that 3 years of posts and comments are fully recovered and now exist in the article system.

Some old nicknames were automatically mapped to the same user if he was signed up at the new site, and I forced some authors to map to their new nicknames, so some of you will see your old posts are RECLAIMED under your new account.? Comments/replies that fall under a given topic/post will soon be assigned to their rightful poster, but give me time with this.

AND

About the 2007-2009 CoCo Forums (still online):

If Steve Bjork and the handful of hacker-attempt victims are reading:

I see 60+ posts for Steve Bjork (6809er) hidden in the SQL database.? Nothing is lost.

Steve gave me a certain amount of time to come up with a solution.? I had no solution until days ago.? I'm a very busy man but when I saw that he "left", it prompted me to stop everything for a few days and focus on not only fixing the forum problem but moving even further ahead by gathering up every Bjork post known to exist on the web, as well as Yours and Mine...? oh what fun this will be to keep peace in the community by bringing us all back together in a way nobody has tried before.

I need to rely on other coders and volunteers to make some of this happen due to the overwhelming amount of posts at hand.? I should be good with most of the text-based content but any SQL data is hard for me to process at this time.

Whoever else had their stuff vanish can send me a quick request and I'll do a search for your nickname to see about how many posts still exist but hidden, just for peace of mind so you can sleep better knowing that these posts are coming back....





-- ~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 12 18:27:54 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:27:54 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Archive volunteers?
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640909121328k552a6022g76a10723f5e7a650@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090912011914.05dcfe38@coco3.com>
	<e44ad6640909121328k552a6022g76a10723f5e7a650@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090912163445.0619dc08@coco3.com>

At 03:28 PM 9/12/2009, you wrote:
>(sent off list)
>
>Hi Roger,
>
>I'm happy to help, just let me know which data set you'd like me to
>convert and where I can grab it.
>No need to send any goodies, I already bought an archive DVD :)
>
>On another note, can your RS232 pack be modified to use a standard
>serial port instead of the bluetooth?  I've been interested in the
>device but honestly regular serial would be more useful to me.
>
>-Aaron


Yes, the pak can be customized quite a bit.  I just ran a $20 kit 
deal at http://www.coco3.com/community/products/ which will allow me 
to throw 90% of the parts in a pack and rush it out a lot quicker 
than the built and tested pak product.  You can add your own EB301 
bluetooth module and make it a wireless pak just by plugging in the 
module, or plug your own gadget into the signal header.. namely a 
level converter or perhaps plug in box that does something using the 
TTL signals.  A lot is possible here.

Then there's just the bare board if somebody wants to fire up their 
soldering iron and dig through their parts stash... $8 in a padded 
envelope, I pay postage, and it's yours.
To those interested just put a comment in the PayPal form - bare 
RS232 board... $8 to payment at coco3.com.  This is probably the 
quickest item I can get out in the same day due to no overhead.

I will post the schematics to the RS-232 Pak on coco3.com this weekend.

To all other pending orders: please be patient.. my soldering iron is 
hot as I speak and I've got the table top quite messy.  Your pak and 
DVD is Coming Soon.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 19:41:52 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
Message-ID: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.

What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?

I know that:

  fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
  fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
  fcs = form constant string = any constant string?

Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?

A. form constant byte:

  fcb   $20  
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $20 
  fcb   $42 B
  fcb   $41 A
  fcb   $53 S
  fcb   $49 I
  fcb   $43 C
  fcb   $30 0
  fcb   $39 9
  fcb   $0A  

B. form constant string:

  fcs   /            BASIC09/
  fcb   $0A

C. would using form constant char be equivalent?

  fcc   ' '  
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   ' ' 
  fcc   'B'
  fcc   'A'
  fcc   'S'
  fcc   'I'
  fcc   'C'
  fcc   '0'
  fcc   '9'
  fcb   $0A

Wayne



      


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 12 20:37:17 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:37:17 -0500
Subject: [Coco] to Darren Atkinson and Ron Bihler, Thank You
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090912191047.061f70b8@coco3.com>

To all interested, here are some Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak files you 
might find very useful.
http://www.coco3.com/community/downloads/

I've posted enough info on the 6551/RS-232 Pak for experimenters to 
take the kit version and have their way with it, making a wireless 
version or wired using the header signals.  Have fun!

Now....

I also want to take the time to thank Darren Atkinson for playing a 
HUGE part in the development of the wireless pak.  After much 
tweaking, debating, and thinking ahead, things somehow came together 
in the end to what is considered a perfect layout for the size it had 
to fit in.  I'm sure he can confirm, it didn't just happen overnight 
or by a one shot run.

One thing that did magically happened without either one of us really 
knowing or considering it was the signal header that the BT module 
plugs into, can be rotated 180 degrees to match the outside of the 
case flush (if a hole is cut), making a nice experimenters/wired pak 
that brings the signals outside of the case.  The BT module can also 
be plugged into the header that way to give even longer range, but I 
felt that damage might occur by accident and I'd get the blame for 
putting out a crappy wireless version.  Instead, the module fits snug 
inside the case on top of other components.

The CASE to this pak was designed by Ron Bihler with the help of me 
working overtime matching the at-the-time progressing and changing 
board shape and size to what Ron was also tweaking with based on my 
specs.  Both the case and board designs kept changing and I had to 
orchestrate a perfect match based on the limitations or abilities of 
both Darren and Ron, and myself.

The result ?  In the end, after $300+ worth of TEST boards were 
ordered which failed to be perfect, Ron's Pak case and the pak board 
snapped together LIKE A GLOVE.  There was no way it could get any 
snugger or a perfect fit.  I don't smoke cigars, but I felt like 
lighting one up when that last order of 100 boards came in with me 
Not Really Knowing For *Sure* they would match perfectly.  I mean, 
the PCB company screwed up on the test boards because they weren't 
production runs.   It was a nervous time waiting on the final boards.

Somehow, some way, with a lot of man hours and dedication, a "simple" 
Wireless RS-232 Pak was all fitted together perfectly from the first 
screw to the snapping/thud sound you get when it's inserted.

I'm proud to have played a part in the development of this excellent 
6551 solution pak and give much thanks to everyone who contributed, 
especially Darren Atkinson and Ron Bihler !!

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From flexser at fiu.edu  Sat Sep 12 21:37:54 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:37:54 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>

These are not opcodes, which may explain why you had trouble finding
them--they wouldn't appear in a table of opcodes.  They are
"pseudo-ops"--assembler commands that don't themselves assemble into any
bytes, but instead tell the assembler to do something.  So, if you simply
want the byte $20, say, to be included in the assembler output at some
location you've given the label "HERE" to, you'd put

HERE      FCB  $20

Or, to do this with the double byte $1234, you'd use

HERE     FDB   $1234

I've don't recollect hearing of FCS--it may be a pseudo-op that only some
assemblers recognize.   FCC is the thing that is generally used for strings:

HERE    FCC /Put this string here./

Probably some assemblers only allow a single data character after FCC and
demand that FCS be used when multiple characters are desired.

Generally, you'd these someplace that does not contain executable
instructions, like after an RTS, to include data values that you want your
program to have access to.

Art

On 9/12/09, Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None
> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly
> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>
> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>
> I know that:
>
>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>
> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>
> A. form constant byte:
>
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $20
>   fcb   $42 B
>   fcb   $41 A
>   fcb   $53 S
>   fcb   $49 I
>   fcb   $43 C
>   fcb   $30 0
>   fcb   $39 9
>   fcb   $0A
>
> B. form constant string:
>
>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>   fcb   $0A
>
> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   ' '
>   fcc   'B'
>   fcc   'A'
>   fcc   'S'
>   fcc   'I'
>   fcc   'C'
>   fcc   '0'
>   fcc   '9'
>   fcb   $0A
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From lothan at newsguy.com  Sat Sep 12 21:44:17 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:44:17 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01E5872BCB764C81B6291B3207A6124F@Crossfire>

Actually, not quite. With OS-9 assemblers

fcs /Basic09/
-or-
fcs "Basic09"

is equivalent to:

fcc 'B'
fcc 'a'
fcc 's'
fcc 'i'
fcc 'c'
fcc '0'
fcb '9' + 0x80

or equivalently

fcc "Basic0"
fcb '9' + 0x80

The differentiation is the fcb is for a single byte, fcc is for character 
data, and fcs is for strings in which the last character has the high-bit 
set. There is no fci, fcr, fcd with the assemblers that came with OS-9 or 
the Development System.

The delimiters don't really matter quite so much with fcc/fcs so you can use 
/, ', ", and perhaps a few others depending on your needs, but the delimiter 
at the start of the string must be the delimiter used to end the string.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:41 PM
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants

> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None 
> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly 
> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>
> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>
> I know that:
>
>  fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>  fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>  fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>
> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>
> A. form constant byte:
>
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $42 B
>  fcb   $41 A
>  fcb   $53 S
>  fcb   $49 I
>  fcb   $43 C
>  fcb   $30 0
>  fcb   $39 9
>  fcb   $0A
>
> B. form constant string:
>
>  fcs   /            BASIC09/
>  fcb   $0A
>
> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   'B'
>  fcc   'A'
>  fcc   'S'
>  fcc   'I'
>  fcc   'C'
>  fcc   '0'
>  fcc   '9'
>  fcb   $0A
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From jdaggett at gate.net  Sat Sep 12 23:16:24 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:16:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>



Wayne

FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the 
assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple 
bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries. 

Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary 
number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the 
larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
127 to 128 if signed. 

Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well 
the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard 
was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single 
precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa, 
one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit 
weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa. 

These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number 
used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to 
declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to 
reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.

FPACCA	RMB 	4

This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A. 

Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine 
code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over 
and over again. 

hope this helps

james

On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
> 
> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
> 
> I know that:
> 
>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
> 
> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
> 
> A. form constant byte:
> 
>   fcb   $20  
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $42 B
>   fcb   $41 A
>   fcb   $53 S
>   fcb   $49 I
>   fcb   $43 C
>   fcb   $30 0
>   fcb   $39 9
>   fcb   $0A  
> 
> B. form constant string:
> 
>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>   fcb   $0A
> 
> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
> 
>   fcc   ' '  
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   'B'
>   fcc   'A'
>   fcc   'S'
>   fcc   'I'
>   fcc   'C'
>   fcc   '0'
>   fcc   '9'
>   fcb   $0A
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 23:26:44 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

OK. I'm consolidating my reply to both Art and Lothan.

I understand about them being pseudo op codes. I understand that the actual labels are:

fcb = form one byte
fdb = form double byte
fcc = form character string
fcs = form character string with hi-bit set on last byte

In respect to the data being put after the last rts instruction, that makes sense. In Basic09, I put my DATA statements after the last RETURN statement. In the I-Code, the DSAT and VDT occur after the last instruction statement. So, when I de-compile with disasm, all the rmb's and fcb's at the top are actually data contained at the bottom of the module. Is that correct?

I know that source files can be divided into parts, like .h for a header file, .a for the assembly source, .r for a linker file. Is there a particular order a header file is parsed in? I know that org sets the numerical origin of the rmb's that follow, but sometimes I see the org value change. In addition, the rmb's and fcb's at the beginning of the disasm output don't correspond directly to the header file. Does that mean the assembler parsed different parts in a different order?

Wayne




________________________________
From: Arthur Flexser <flexser at fiu.edu>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:37:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

These are not opcodes, which may explain why you had trouble finding
them--they wouldn't appear in a table of opcodes.  They are
"pseudo-ops"--assembler commands that don't themselves assemble into any
bytes, but instead tell the assembler to do something.  So, if you simply
want the byte $20, say, to be included in the assembler output at some
location you've given the label "HERE" to, you'd put

HERE      FCB  $20

Or, to do this with the double byte $1234, you'd use

HERE     FDB   $1234

I've don't recollect hearing of FCS--it may be a pseudo-op that only some
assemblers recognize.   FCC is the thing that is generally used for strings:

HERE    FCC /Put this string here./

Probably some assemblers only allow a single data character after FCC and
demand that FCS be used when multiple characters are desired.

Generally, you'd these someplace that does not contain executable
instructions, like after an RTS, to include data values that you want your
program to have access to.

Art


________________________________
From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:44:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Actually, not quite. With OS-9 assemblers

fcs /Basic09/
-or-
fcs "Basic09"

is equivalent to:

fcc 'B'
fcc 'a'
fcc 's'
fcc 'i'
fcc 'c'
fcc '0'
fcb '9' + 0x80

or equivalently

fcc "Basic0"
fcb '9' + 0x80

The differentiation is the fcb is for a single byte, fcc is for character 
data, and fcs is for strings in which the last character has the high-bit 
set. There is no fci, fcr, fcd with the assemblers that came with OS-9 or 
the Development System.

The delimiters don't really matter quite so much with fcc/fcs so you can use 
/, ', ", and perhaps a few others depending on your needs, but the delimiter 
at the start of the string must be the delimiter used to end the string.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:41 PM
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants

> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None 
> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly 
> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>
> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>
> I know that:
>
>  fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>  fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>  fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>
> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>
> A. form constant byte:
>
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $20
>  fcb   $42 B
>  fcb   $41 A
>  fcb   $53 S
>  fcb   $49 I
>  fcb   $43 C
>  fcb   $30 0
>  fcb   $39 9
>  fcb   $0A
>
> B. form constant string:
>
>  fcs   /            BASIC09/
>  fcb   $0A
>
> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   ' '
>  fcc   'B'
>  fcc   'A'
>  fcc   'S'
>  fcc   'I'
>  fcc   'C'
>  fcc   '0'
>  fcc   '9'
>  fcb   $0A
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Sun Sep 13 08:47:41 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:47:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo MIDI Music Port schematics?
Message-ID: <20090913124740.GA2575@tuxdriver.com>

I have the following:

CoCo MIDI Music Port
By GlenSide Color Computer Club
As authorized by Rulaford Research
Built by Brian Schubring

It is built around a 6850 ACIA, a 4MHz crystal, an opto-isolator,
some 74xx logic and a couple of parts I'm having trouble identifying
(18k31, 18k34).

The PCB is etched with this:

COCO-MIDI VER 1.1
GlenSide CCC '96
BY C.H REDONE BY BRIAN S.

Can anyone point me at a schematic and/or some documentation?
Perhaps there is an article in one of the CoCo-related magazines
(although '96 seems a bit late for that)?  I get the impression that
basically all the CoCo MIDI ports used the same basic design...?

Thanks,

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From lothan at newsguy.com  Sun Sep 13 12:04:40 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:04:40 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>

The fixed constants are actually allocated exactly where they are defined, 
so you need to define them in an area that can't contain any code. Any other 
rules about where you define fixed constants is generally up to you, 
although it's somewhat common to either defined fixed constants immediately 
after the rts in the subroutine in which they are used or near the bottom of 
the file. Putting them close to where they are used is a little more 
convenient.

Notice the OS-9 module header information is basically defined as a set of 
fixed constants in the asm assembler at the top of the file.

M$ID fdb $87CD
M$Size fdb $B61D
M$Name fdb Name
M$Type fcb $11
M$Revs fcb $81
M$Parity fcb $83
M$Exec fdb Start
M$Mem fdb $1125
Name fcs "myname'"

Start pshs y
 ...
 bsr There
 clra
 clrb
 OS9 F$Exit

Text fcs "Text can go here"

There pshs x
 ...
 rts

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:26 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

> OK. I'm consolidating my reply to both Art and Lothan.
>
> I understand about them being pseudo op codes. I understand that the 
> actual labels are:
>
> fcb = form one byte
> fdb = form double byte
> fcc = form character string
> fcs = form character string with hi-bit set on last byte
>
> In respect to the data being put after the last rts instruction, that 
> makes sense. In Basic09, I put my DATA statements after the last RETURN 
> statement. In the I-Code, the DSAT and VDT occur after the last 
> instruction statement. So, when I de-compile with disasm, all the rmb's 
> and fcb's at the top are actually data contained at the bottom of the 
> module. Is that correct?
>
> I know that source files can be divided into parts, like .h for a header 
> file, .a for the assembly source, .r for a linker file. Is there a 
> particular order a header file is parsed in? I know that org sets the 
> numerical origin of the rmb's that follow, but sometimes I see the org 
> value change. In addition, the rmb's and fcb's at the beginning of the 
> disasm output don't correspond directly to the header file. Does that mean 
> the assembler parsed different parts in a different order?
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Arthur Flexser <flexser at fiu.edu>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:37:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>
> These are not opcodes, which may explain why you had trouble finding
> them--they wouldn't appear in a table of opcodes.  They are
> "pseudo-ops"--assembler commands that don't themselves assemble into any
> bytes, but instead tell the assembler to do something.  So, if you simply
> want the byte $20, say, to be included in the assembler output at some
> location you've given the label "HERE" to, you'd put
>
> HERE      FCB  $20
>
> Or, to do this with the double byte $1234, you'd use
>
> HERE     FDB   $1234
>
> I've don't recollect hearing of FCS--it may be a pseudo-op that only some
> assemblers recognize.   FCC is the thing that is generally used for 
> strings:
>
> HERE    FCC /Put this string here./
>
> Probably some assemblers only allow a single data character after FCC and
> demand that FCS be used when multiple characters are desired.
>
> Generally, you'd these someplace that does not contain executable
> instructions, like after an RTS, to include data values that you want your
> program to have access to.
>
> Art
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:44:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>
> Actually, not quite. With OS-9 assemblers
>
> fcs /Basic09/
> -or-
> fcs "Basic09"
>
> is equivalent to:
>
> fcc 'B'
> fcc 'a'
> fcc 's'
> fcc 'i'
> fcc 'c'
> fcc '0'
> fcb '9' + 0x80
>
> or equivalently
>
> fcc "Basic0"
> fcb '9' + 0x80
>
> The differentiation is the fcb is for a single byte, fcc is for character
> data, and fcs is for strings in which the last character has the high-bit
> set. There is no fci, fcr, fcd with the assemblers that came with OS-9 or
> the Development System.
>
> The delimiters don't really matter quite so much with fcc/fcs so you can 
> use
> /, ', ", and perhaps a few others depending on your needs, but the 
> delimiter
> at the start of the string must be the delimiter used to end the string.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
>
>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None
>> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly
>> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>
>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>
>> I know that:
>>
>>  fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>  fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>  fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>
>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>
>> A. form constant byte:
>>
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $42 B
>>  fcb   $41 A
>>  fcb   $53 S
>>  fcb   $49 I
>>  fcb   $43 C
>>  fcb   $30 0
>>  fcb   $39 9
>>  fcb   $0A
>>
>> B. form constant string:
>>
>>  fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>  fcb   $0A
>>
>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   'B'
>>  fcc   'A'
>>  fcc   'S'
>>  fcc   'I'
>>  fcc   'C'
>>  fcc   '0'
>>  fcc   '9'
>>  fcb   $0A
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 16:14:18 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

James,

I knew there was something different about Basic09 REAL variables and OS-9 C floats/doubles.

In Basic09, a real value is defined:

Byte 1: Exponent
Bytes 2-5: Mantissa, with Byte 5, Bit 0 being the sign bit

which is almost the exact opposite of the OS-9 C float:

Bit 7 of Byte 1 being sign bit, and Bytes 1-3: Mantissa
Byte 4: Exponent

I have never understood why that difference exists, but being prior to the IEEE standard would be as good an explanation as any.

I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?

org 0 sets the current . value to 0

A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org

A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org

I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.

For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:

A.LABEL5 equ 

does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?

Wayne



________________________________
From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants



Wayne

FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the 
assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple 
bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries. 

Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary 
number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the 
larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
127 to 128 if signed. 

Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well 
the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard 
was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single 
precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa, 
one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit 
weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa. 

These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number 
used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to 
declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to 
reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.

FPACCA    RMB     4

This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A. 

Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine 
code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over 
and over again. 

hope this helps

james

On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
> 
> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
> 
> I know that:
> 
>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
> 
> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
> 
> A. form constant byte:
> 
>   fcb   $20  
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $20 
>   fcb   $42 B
>   fcb   $41 A
>   fcb   $53 S
>   fcb   $49 I
>   fcb   $43 C
>   fcb   $30 0
>   fcb   $39 9
>   fcb   $0A  
> 
> B. form constant string:
> 
>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>   fcb   $0A
> 
> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
> 
>   fcc   ' '  
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   ' ' 
>   fcc   'B'
>   fcc   'A'
>   fcc   'S'
>   fcc   'I'
>   fcc   'C'
>   fcc   '0'
>   fcc   '9'
>   fcb   $0A
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
>      
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 17:37:02 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That makes sense. I have been looking at the sample program in both the OS9  Level 1 Programming Manual, Section 3, OS-9 Interactive Debugger, Chapter 4, Using Debug, Sample Program (page 159), and comparing it with the same sample program in the OS-9 Level 2 Development System Manual, Interactive Debugger, Chapter 4, Using Debug, page 4-1.

The first thing I noticed is that there are a few minor differences between the listings, most notably being the use of csect/endsect and psect/endsect in the rma version, and the use of org in the asm version. Because it seems they used a mixture of data from the asm version and the rma version in the Level 2 manual, I am assuming that the authors didn't believe that the differences would change the program significantly. From it, I have, I believe, learned the difference between Basic09 1.0.0 for Level 1 and Basic09 1.0.1 for Level 2. I believe that the only difference is that 1.0.0 was compiled with asm, and 1.0.1 was compiled with rma. I could be mistaken.

My primary question now is, would the order of the header file (which the ttl line is 'Basic09 System definitions'), be the same in the compiled program as it is in the header? Is asm or rma able to read different parts of the header at different points in the compile, or is it all read in sequentially at the beginning of the compile?

If it is read sequentially at the beginning, then I need to understand why the order of the rmb's at the beginning of the decompile are in a different order from the header file.




________________________________
From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:04:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

The fixed constants are actually allocated exactly where they are defined, so you need to define them in an area that can't contain any code. Any other rules about where you define fixed constants is generally up to you, although it's somewhat common to either defined fixed constants immediately after the rts in the subroutine in which they are used or near the bottom of the file. Putting them close to where they are used is a little more convenient.

Notice the OS-9 module header information is basically defined as a set of fixed constants in the asm assembler at the top of the file.

M$ID fdb $87CD
M$Size fdb $B61D
M$Name fdb Name
M$Type fcb $11
M$Revs fcb $81
M$Parity fcb $83
M$Exec fdb Start
M$Mem fdb $1125
Name fcs "myname'"

Start pshs y
...
bsr There
clra
clrb
OS9 F$Exit

Text fcs "Text can go here"

There pshs x
...
rts

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:26 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

> OK. I'm consolidating my reply to both Art and Lothan.
> 
> I understand about them being pseudo op codes. I understand that the actual labels are:
> 
> fcb = form one byte
> fdb = form double byte
> fcc = form character string
> fcs = form character string with hi-bit set on last byte
> 
> In respect to the data being put after the last rts instruction, that makes sense. In Basic09, I put my DATA statements after the last RETURN statement. In the I-Code, the DSAT and VDT occur after the last instruction statement. So, when I de-compile with disasm, all the rmb's and fcb's at the top are actually data contained at the bottom of the module. Is that correct?
> 
> I know that source files can be divided into parts, like .h for a header file, .a for the assembly source, .r for a linker file. Is there a particular order a header file is parsed in? I know that org sets the numerical origin of the rmb's that follow, but sometimes I see the org value change. In addition, the rmb's and fcb's at the beginning of the disasm output don't correspond directly to the header file. Does that mean the assembler parsed different parts in a different order?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Arthur Flexser <flexser at fiu.edu>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:37:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> These are not opcodes, which may explain why you had trouble finding
> them--they wouldn't appear in a table of opcodes.  They are
> "pseudo-ops"--assembler commands that don't themselves assemble into any
> bytes, but instead tell the assembler to do something.  So, if you simply
> want the byte $20, say, to be included in the assembler output at some
> location you've given the label "HERE" to, you'd put
> 
> HERE      FCB  $20
> 
> Or, to do this with the double byte $1234, you'd use
> 
> HERE     FDB   $1234
> 
> I've don't recollect hearing of FCS--it may be a pseudo-op that only some
> assemblers recognize.   FCC is the thing that is generally used for strings:
> 
> HERE    FCC /Put this string here./
> 
> Probably some assemblers only allow a single data character after FCC and
> demand that FCS be used when multiple characters are desired.
> 
> Generally, you'd these someplace that does not contain executable
> instructions, like after an RTS, to include data values that you want your
> program to have access to.
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:44:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> Actually, not quite. With OS-9 assemblers
> 
> fcs /Basic09/
> -or-
> fcs "Basic09"
> 
> is equivalent to:
> 
> fcc 'B'
> fcc 'a'
> fcc 's'
> fcc 'i'
> fcc 'c'
> fcc '0'
> fcb '9' + 0x80
> 
> or equivalently
> 
> fcc "Basic0"
> fcb '9' + 0x80
> 
> The differentiation is the fcb is for a single byte, fcc is for character
> data, and fcs is for strings in which the last character has the high-bit
> set. There is no fci, fcr, fcd with the assemblers that came with OS-9 or
> the Development System.
> 
> The delimiters don't really matter quite so much with fcc/fcs so you can use
> /, ', ", and perhaps a few others depending on your needs, but the delimiter
> at the start of the string must be the delimiter used to end the string.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None
>> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly
>> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>> 
>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>> 
>> I know that:
>> 
>>  fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>  fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>  fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>> 
>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>> 
>> A. form constant byte:
>> 
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $20
>>  fcb   $42 B
>>  fcb   $41 A
>>  fcb   $53 S
>>  fcb   $49 I
>>  fcb   $43 C
>>  fcb   $30 0
>>  fcb   $39 9
>>  fcb   $0A
>> 
>> B. form constant string:
>> 
>>  fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>  fcb   $0A
>> 
>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>> 
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   ' '
>>  fcc   'B'
>>  fcc   'A'
>>  fcc   'S'
>>  fcc   'I'
>>  fcc   'C'
>>  fcc   '0'
>>  fcc   '9'
>>  fcb   $0A
>> 
>> Wayne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 

--
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Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From lost at l-w.ca  Sun Sep 13 19:47:57 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:47:57 -0600
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>
	<132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> If it is read sequentially at the beginning, then I need to understand why the order of the rmb's at the beginning of the decompile are in a different order from the header file.

I think you're a bit confused about what a header file actually is. A 
header file is merely a sequence of definitions which DOES NOT generate 
any output whatsoever. Usually, a header file simply defines constants 
and possibly memory locations for use by the program including the file.

All files are read sequentially from start to finish by the assembler. 
The contents of a header file should not ever appear in the assembled 
binary. If a header causes anything to appear in the output, it is not, 
technically, a header file.

For instance, a header file might look something like so:

	ORG 0
TOKEN1	RMB 1
TOKEN2	RMB 2
TOKEN3	RMB 3

and so on. All that does is define TOKEN1 as 0, TOKEN2 as 1, and TOKEN3 
as 2. None of that will appear in the output file, however.

-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca



From jdaggett at gate.net  Sun Sep 13 21:06:56 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:06:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>,
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AAD9730.2807.1413493@jdaggett.gate.net>

Wayne 

They are basically the same. Prior to IEEE one method for a 32 bit FP number was to 
have the sign stored in its own byte. This left the mantissa at 24 bits, the exponent in the 
its byte. Therefore five bytes were needed to store a single FP number. The added 
resolution really is insignificant. What the IEEE single precision format does is to reduce 
the storage requirements by one byte. Back in the old 8 bit days where memory was 
precisous, that was a concern. 

james

On 13 Sep 2009 at 13:14, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> James,
> 
> I knew there was something different about Basic09 REAL variables and OS-9 C floats/doubles.
> 
> In Basic09, a real value is defined:
> 
> Byte 1: Exponent
> Bytes 2-5: Mantissa, with Byte 5, Bit 0 being the sign bit
> 
> which is almost the exact opposite of the OS-9 C float:
> 
> Bit 7 of Byte 1 being sign bit, and Bytes 1-3: Mantissa
> Byte 4: Exponent
> 
> I have never understood why that difference exists, but being prior to the IEEE standard would be as good an explanation as any.
> 
> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
> 
> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
> 
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
> 
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
> 
> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
> 
> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
> 
> A.LABEL5 equ 
> 
> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> 
> 
> Wayne
> 
> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the 
> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple 
> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries. 
> 
> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary 
> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the 
> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
> 127 to 128 if signed. 
> 
> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well 
> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard 
> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single 
> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa, 
> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit 
> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa. 
> 
> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number 
> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to 
> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to 
> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
> 
> FPACCA    RMB     4
> 
> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A. 
> 
> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine 
> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over 
> and over again. 
> 
> hope this helps
> 
> james
> 
> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
> 
> > I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
> > 
> > What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
> > Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
> > 
> > I know that:
> > 
> >   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
> >   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
> >   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
> > 
> > Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
> > 
> > A. form constant byte:
> > 
> >   fcb   $20  
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $20 
> >   fcb   $42 B
> >   fcb   $41 A
> >   fcb   $53 S
> >   fcb   $49 I
> >   fcb   $43 C
> >   fcb   $30 0
> >   fcb   $39 9
> >   fcb   $0A  
> > 
> > B. form constant string:
> > 
> >   fcs   /            BASIC09/
> >   fcb   $0A
> > 
> > C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
> > 
> >   fcc   ' '  
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   ' ' 
> >   fcc   'B'
> >   fcc   'A'
> >   fcc   'S'
> >   fcc   'I'
> >   fcc   'C'
> >   fcc   '0'
> >   fcc   '9'
> >   fcb   $0A
> > 
> > Wayne
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >      
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Mon Sep 14 01:50:01 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 01:50:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo MIDI Music Port schematics?
In-Reply-To: <20090913124740.GA2575@tuxdriver.com>
References: <20090913124740.GA2575@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <004001ca34ff$332b9700$9982c500$@com>

You could try checking the UltiMusE III docs, maybe they discuss MIDI port
info that would help...

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of John W. Linville
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:48 AM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] CoCo MIDI Music Port schematics?

I have the following:

CoCo MIDI Music Port
By GlenSide Color Computer Club
As authorized by Rulaford Research
Built by Brian Schubring

It is built around a 6850 ACIA, a 4MHz crystal, an opto-isolator,
some 74xx logic and a couple of parts I'm having trouble identifying
(18k31, 18k34).

The PCB is etched with this:

COCO-MIDI VER 1.1
GlenSide CCC '96
BY C.H REDONE BY BRIAN S.

Can anyone point me at a schematic and/or some documentation?
Perhaps there is an article in one of the CoCo-related magazines
(although '96 seems a bit late for that)?  I get the impression that
basically all the CoCo MIDI ports used the same basic design...?

Thanks,

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.95/2368 - Release Date: 09/13/09
17:50:00




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 16:27:53 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>
	<132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I think I need to better establish what I already do understand. Having written DCom, and currently writing its replacement (unpack), I already understand that the compiled code contains no direct reference to declarations.

In Basic09 I-Code, there are no TYPE, DIM or PARAM statements. These statements have to be determined by examining the variable references and creating a map of the memory allocated to all of the data. In I-Code, there are two tables that help with this. They are called the Symbol Table (I call it the Variable Declaration Table, or VDT), and the description area (I call it the Data Storage Allocation Table or DSAT).

With these tables, I can reconstruct all of the TYPE, DIM and PARAM statements. Since Baasic09 does not store a reference to a unused variable (or field, in a record), there are usually "gaps" in the memory map. From these gaps, I can determine something of what *might have* occurred there. Example, if it is a 2-byte gap, I can assume an INTEGER, even though it could also be 2 BYTES, 2 BOOLEANS, or 1 of each.

Likewise, I understand that all of the rmb statements at the top of the disasm output are reconstructed variables, based on the memory location allocated, and its size. In order to understand what all those generic uxxxx lables, I am trying to match them up to the header file.

>From my understanding of data memory allocation, the header rmb entries should match the disasm rmb entries, if the object code being decompiled is the same version and build as the header file I am looking at. The problem comes in when the uxxxx label is being allocated 2 bytes, where the header shows 2 separate entries of 1 byte each.

The entries in the header, from the beginning, define the tokens used in Basic09 to represent the various keywords. Each location corresponds to the token value of that keyword. Example:


org 0

T.GLOB rmb 1 Global (reserved) - set to $00, at location $00
T.PRAM rmb 1 Param - set to $01, at location $01
T.TYPE rmb 1 Type - set to $02, at location $02
T.DIM  rmb 1 Dim - set to $03, at location $03

The disasm output starts out correctly, but begins to be different at u001C:

u001C    rmb   2

The header, in that same position, shows:

T.EEXT rmb 1 Endexit
T.ON   rmb 1 On

There are other sections of the header that start with org 0, showing that the following section begins allocation at a relative offset of 0. None of them that I have compared to the disasm output matches anywhere near the disasm output.

In order to understand what Basic09 is doing with the data, I have to know what the data is. I can only keep playing with it until I get that figured out.

As far as understanding the assembly instructions is concerned, I can tell you exactly (well, almost) what each instruction is doing. What I can't tell you is what any specific grouping of instructions is doing. I can't tell the difference between code that is performing a calculation and acting on the result, and code that is writing output to a data buffer.

The Motorola manual is a big help, as is the os9 development system manuals (L1 & L2). By being able to refer to all 3, I am better able to sort out what the instructions are doing. What I sorely lack is example of commented code that show me what different kinds of code looks like, like "this is a loop in assembly", or "this is a subroutine in assembly, and how you call it". The samples don't go very far, and the Assist09 ROM listing in the Motorola manual is so long I could study it for 10 years and come no closer to understanding it. The tutorials online are either so generic it's difficult to translate, or so specific to the processor being discussed that it's impossible to translate.

I'm guessing that, before it's all over, I will have to try to write some assembly code and go through the debugging process to get what's going on.

Wayne




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:47:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> If it is read sequentially at the beginning, then I need to understand why the order of the rmb's at the beginning of the decompile are in a different order from the header file.

I think you're a bit confused about what a header file actually is. A header file is merely a sequence of definitions which DOES NOT generate any output whatsoever. Usually, a header file simply defines constants and possibly memory locations for use by the program including the file.

All files are read sequentially from start to finish by the assembler. The contents of a header file should not ever appear in the assembled binary. If a header causes anything to appear in the output, it is not, technically, a header file.

For instance, a header file might look something like so:

    ORG 0
TOKEN1    RMB 1
TOKEN2    RMB 2
TOKEN3    RMB 3

and so on. All that does is define TOKEN1 as 0, TOKEN2 as 1, and TOKEN3 as 2. None of that will appear in the output file, however.

-- William Astle
lost at l-w.ca


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From lost at l-w.ca  Mon Sep 14 16:58:43 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:58:43 -0600
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>	<132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>
	<888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AAEAE83.7020307@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> org 0
> 
> T.GLOB rmb 1 Global (reserved) - set to $00, at location $00
> T.PRAM rmb 1 Param - set to $01, at location $01
> T.TYPE rmb 1 Type - set to $02, at location $02
> T.DIM  rmb 1 Dim - set to $03, at location $03
> 
> The disasm output starts out correctly, but begins to be different at u001C:
> 
> u001C    rmb   2
> 
> The header, in that same position, shows:
> 
> T.EEXT rmb 1 Endexit
> T.ON   rmb 1 On

Okay, I think I understand where you're going wrong. You are assuming
that just because the header has T.ON defined, then the code must be
referring to it. That will not necessarily happen. I have written much
code over the years where I define two 8 bit values but I always read
them as a single 16 bit value. Labelling them as two 8 bit values is
usually just for clarity or completeness. Or perhaps they are only
accessed via an index register. Or the variable is not actually used.

Furthermore, any string of RMBs that is used to simply define the values
of constants will NEVER have any equivalent in the output file. Ever.
This is because those constants are never used as addresses so the
disassembler will not know there were symbols attached to them.

The same thing will often be the case for "structure offset" lists
(often defined as "ORG 0" followed by a bunch of RMBs) since they are
never accessed as addresses, just offsets from an index register.

Now, for actual variable (data memory) allocations, you should see at
least some correlation between the RMBs in the header and the result of
the disassembly. However, as stated, any variable in the header that is
not referenced independently anywhere in the program will not appear in
the disassembly.

Note that you are probably correct that writing some assembly code and
studying what is generated (and what a disassembler produces) will be
more helpful to you than any protracted discussion will be.

If you can find a copy of it, you might find Mr. Barden's book TRS-80
Color Computer Assembly Language Programming helpful though it is not
OS9 oriented.


From Torsten at Dittel.info  Mon Sep 14 19:15:45 2009
From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:15:45 +0200
Subject: [Coco] Another CoCo2 Clone...
Message-ID: <h8mir2$t7f$1@ger.gmane.org>

Just found that one:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/RARE-MISEDO-85-CLONE-YOUGOSLAVE-DU-TRS-80-COLOR2_W0QQitemZ230377476873

Looks like the "Misedo 85" was used in schools in Serbia/Montenegro 
(former Yugoslavia). I wonder which type of PAL RF modulator is built 
in. Maybe even SECAM East? Looks like it doesn't work on a French TV...

Regarding the auction, the seller sold the same item already in June, 
now he's selling it again. Shipping from France is horribly expensive, 
maybe the first buyer was surprised by the shipping costs and didn't 
want to pay...



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 20:29:15 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAEAE83.7020307@l-w.ca>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire>
	<132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>
	<888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAEAE83.7020307@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <572771.48388.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I understand. I had been thinking, for a while, that the rmb lists in the header were tables of values that Basic09 uses to identify the keywords and associate them with a token code. I haven't been sure of how that table is referenced in the object code. For example, in Basic09, if I wanted a table of references, I would establish DATA statements, like:

DATA $01,"PARAM",$02,"TYPE",$03,"DIM"

I have a variable, tokenCode. I use tokenCode to identify the byte read by comparing it to the first field of data ($01), then affixing a label to a different variable, tokenName, using the second DATA field ("PARAM"). The data statements are all in the I-Code, though they are not directly tied to any variable.

I thought that the first list of rmb's in the header were the assembly version of my data statements, and that the identifiers (like T.ON) would be used by Basic09 to determine which keyword was being used. I'm not sure how Basic09 does this, other than that there is a "list" of keyword names (in the fcb's), and each one has the token value included, like:

L0140    fcb   $01
         fcb   $01 
         fcb   $50 P
         fcb   $41 A
         fcb   $52 R
         fcb   $41 A
         fcb   $CD M

PARAM is token $01,and has a size of $01

         fcb   $02
         fcb   $01 
         fcb   $54 T
         fcb   $59 Y
         fcb   $50 P
         fcb   $C5 E

TYPE is token $02,and has a size of $01

I guess that the identifier labels (like T.ON) are not necessary after the initial setup.

Wayne




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:58:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Okay, I think I understand where you're going wrong. You are assuming
that just because the header has T.ON defined, then the code must be
referring to it. That will not necessarily happen. I have written much
code over the years where I define two 8 bit values but I always read
them as a single 16 bit value. Labelling them as two 8 bit values is
usually just for clarity or completeness. Or perhaps they are only
accessed via an index register. Or the variable is not actually used.

Furthermore, any string of RMBs that is used to simply define the values
of constants will NEVER have any equivalent in the output file. Ever.
This is because those constants are never used as addresses so the
disassembler will not know there were symbols attached to them.

The same thing will often be the case for "structure offset" lists
(often defined as "ORG 0" followed by a bunch of RMBs) since they are
never accessed as addresses, just offsets from an index register.

Now, for actual variable (data memory) allocations, you should see at
least some correlation between the RMBs in the header and the result of
the disassembly. However, as stated, any variable in the header that is
not referenced independently anywhere in the program will not appear in
the disassembly.

Note that you are probably correct that writing some assembly code and
studying what is generated (and what a disassembler produces) will be
more helpful to you than any protracted discussion will be.

If you can find a copy of it, you might find Mr. Barden's book TRS-80
Color Computer Assembly Language Programming helpful though it is not
OS9 oriented.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From farna at att.net  Mon Sep 14 21:44:15 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:44:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>

Okay, I never have been much of a programmer, and really done little 
more hardware than a few kits and mods to existing hardware, but I've 
been thinking too much!

One of you programming guys take a look at the resources on this site: 
http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm
I've been comparing the pin-out of a parallel port to that of the CoCo 
expansion port. I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. Might have to add a source of 
external power, but that could be a cord that goes back into the PC case 
and plugs into a drive connector. Hey, even move +12V out there! The 
goal would be to use cartridges for data transfer purposes or to 
build/use an inexpensive I/O board. Throw the cartridge compatibility 
out and just make it a multi-purpose/experimenter's I/O board with a 
wire-wrap header and I think it gets cheaper and easier. Limit the goal 
to a data I/O board that could be programmed from Nitros9 or DECB and 
forget the cartridge connector and things get easier!

The real headache I see is the 13 address lines. There would have to be 
some kind of decoding done on the board so that only a couple lines on 
the parallel port could be used for decoding. But then again if you 
throw away direct cartridge compatibility and use it strictly for data 
I/O, is that much address decoding really necessary? Told you I wasn't 
much of a programmer/hardware builder!! 

Programming the port from DECB is my main interest. One thing I always 
liked most about the CoCo was the easy I/O projects and using it as a 
controller. Started to write a digital dash for my car using just the 
serial, cassette, and joystick ports for inputs (mainly the relay on the 
cassette port). Lack of an inexpensive display easy to install in the 
dash stopped me! There are such animals for cars now, but that 
programmable I/O port would sure make a CoCo emulator customized and 
installed in flash memory on a simple single board computer (maybe an 
inexpensive Mini ITX with a VIA 800MHz chip...) a real possibility. The 
older Mini ITX boards are starting to show up on e-bay priced reall 
nicely. Would make a good base for a "CoCo4" (didn't want to use that in 
the subject line though!!). Use a IDE to flash card adapter for the main 
drive, then attach a small IDE laptop drive....

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep 14 21:56:09 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:56:09 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo history roundup project
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP23CD5693AD84F7962AD8FAAFE70@phx.gbl>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090909215726.05c84f58@coco3.com>
	<502F753CFED94338A662A689756A8069@Crossfire>
	<200909100749.28789.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<25B795A0-9875-4259-80CC-24D019BB663F@tee-boy.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP23CD5693AD84F7962AD8FAAFE70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914205432.05eb3610@coco3.com>

At 10:04 PM 9/10/2009, you wrote:
>Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
>>Delphi forums for some years are here:
>>http://www.textfiles.com/messages/ALANWESTON/



All I see in the 1993 Delphi folder is December messages.  This 
appears to be 3 years of Delphi but a small fraction of each year's 
content, unless I'm missing something here.

Is there really a complete or considerably large Delphi forum 
archive/digest out there?


-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From jdaggett at gate.net  Mon Sep 14 22:50:40 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:50:40 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>
References: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>
Message-ID: <4AAF0100.7272.8DF89A@jdaggett.gate.net>

Frank

EPP interface is used in configuring FPGAs. So being able to send and read data from a 
ROM cartridge should not be all too tricky. Only thing if I remember correctly EPP/ECP 
port speed in not all that fast. Still fast enough to move it from the cartridge to a virtual 
ROM in a PC. 

An interesting idea.

james

On 14 Sep 2009 at 21:44, Frank Swygert wrote:

> Okay, I never have been much of a programmer, and really done little 
> more hardware than a few kits and mods to existing hardware, but I've 
> been thinking too much!
> 
> One of you programming guys take a look at the resources on this site: 
> http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm
> I've been comparing the pin-out of a parallel port to that of the CoCo 
> expansion port. I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
> and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
> parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. Might have to add a source of 
> external power, but that could be a cord that goes back into the PC case 
> and plugs into a drive connector. Hey, even move +12V out there! The 
> goal would be to use cartridges for data transfer purposes or to 
> build/use an inexpensive I/O board. Throw the cartridge compatibility 
> out and just make it a multi-purpose/experimenter's I/O board with a 
> wire-wrap header and I think it gets cheaper and easier. Limit the goal 
> to a data I/O board that could be programmed from Nitros9 or DECB and 
> forget the cartridge connector and things get easier!
> 
> The real headache I see is the 13 address lines. There would have to be 
> some kind of decoding done on the board so that only a couple lines on 
> the parallel port could be used for decoding. But then again if you 
> throw away direct cartridge compatibility and use it strictly for data 
> I/O, is that much address decoding really necessary? Told you I wasn't 
> much of a programmer/hardware builder!! 
> 
> Programming the port from DECB is my main interest. One thing I always 
> liked most about the CoCo was the easy I/O projects and using it as a 
> controller. Started to write a digital dash for my car using just the 
> serial, cassette, and joystick ports for inputs (mainly the relay on the 
> cassette port). Lack of an inexpensive display easy to install in the 
> dash stopped me! There are such animals for cars now, but that 
> programmable I/O port would sure make a CoCo emulator customized and 
> installed in flash memory on a simple single board computer (maybe an 
> inexpensive Mini ITX with a VIA 800MHz chip...) a real possibility. The 
> older Mini ITX boards are starting to show up on e-bay priced reall 
> nicely. Would make a good base for a "CoCo4" (didn't want to use that in 
> the subject line though!!). Use a IDE to flash card adapter for the main 
> drive, then attach a small IDE laptop drive....
> 
> -- 
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> (free download available!)
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep 14 23:56:49 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:56:49 -0500
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>


I'm at the point now where a bunch of messages have been loaded into 
a SortedList which is a key-based dictionary/array that sorts 
automatically while items are added.
I'm tagging each message with it's Delphi-generated ID (found in the 
message header), and the message PARENT (optionally found in the 
subject line of the message header).

Both the ID and PARENT are stored in the list along with the body, 
subject, date, etc.  I then enumerate through the list which returns 
all the message IDs in ORDER from low to high.
I can check whether the message is a POST (has no parent), or REPLY 
(contains a parent message ID)

Here's where the work really comes.  I need a new sorted list that 
orders the keys by Thread Starter, Thread Participants


Original Post
   Reply to original
   Reply to original
   Reply to some reply to original
   Reply to reply #2 above
   Reply to #4 above
Original Post
   same list of replies and replies to those replies (if any)
Original Post
... etc.

Any messages that eventually lead back to the original post ID just 
need to be sorted that way in the new list so I can show them on the 
site to be Comments of the Original Message, with no nesting used.  I 
feel like the nesting levels may be too deep to make it worthwhile to 
recreate the entire thread depth visually.

Another issue is "the missing parent" syndrome since these archives 
are taken out of a slice of time.  Any message that points to a 
nonexistent parent should be remarked as a Thread Starter and the 
whole sorting process restarted.  I'm going to work on the missing 
parent thing tonight.

Out of ~1800 messages just for December 1993 of Delphi, you can see 
that no sorting can be done by hand.
Does anyone have a formula that comes to mind for finding all 
messages that ultimately lead back to the same parent?

Here is just a small cut of the debug readout I'm using to get a 
better idea of things.  The first message I have (by Delphi ID) for 
Dec 1993 is of course, something from a thread but not the master of 
the thread.  Any messages shown to be "a reply to #####" and the 
##### is less than 82350 is clearly leading to a missing message, so 
those have to be remarked as having a parent of 0 which makes it a 
Thread Starter now just to give the message a place in the WordPress 
blog scheme.

The list below is only sorted by message ID, not any considerations 
for threads.

82350: is a reply to 82331
82351: is a reply to 82309
82352: is a reply to 82342
82353: is a reply to 82345
82354: is a starter post
82355: is a reply to 82343
82356: is a reply to 82344
82357: is a reply to 82351
82358: is a reply to 82352
82359: is a reply to 82336
82360: is a reply to 82355
82361: is a reply to 82360
82362: is a starter post
82363: is a reply to 82359
82364: is a reply to 82326
82365: is a reply to 82306
82366: is a reply to 82306
82367: is a reply to 82362
82368: is a reply to 82363
82369: is a reply to 82315
82370: is a reply to 82342
82371: is a starter post
82372: is a reply to 82297
82373: is a starter post
82374: is a reply to 82310
82375: is a reply to 82312
82376: is a reply to 82371
82377: is a reply to 82340
82378: is a reply to 82376
82379: is a reply to 82342
82380: is a reply to 82378
82381: is a reply to 82371
82382: is a reply to 82375
82383: is a reply to 82371
82384: is a starter post
82385: is a reply to 82304
82386: is a reply to 82384
82387: is a starter post
82388: is a reply to 82382
82389: is a reply to 82384
82390: is a reply to 82373
-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 15 00:24:23 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:24:23 -0500
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914230819.05eb83e0@coco3.com>



I'm thinking this might be a good solution:

* locate the thread starters
iterate through every Delphi message in any order, ignoring those 
marked as SORTED
  (as in a hash table output, or sorted list, doesn't matter) 
locating all Original Posts
mark each as SORTED and APPEND it to a new indexed list of messages

* insert each reply right after its parent in the new table, ignoring 
those marked as SORTED
iterate through every Delphi message in any order locating all 
messages having a parent
mark that message as SORTED, insert it after it's parent in the new 
table (the ID will have to be found in the list)

This should provide a way to make a sorted list of message IDs where 
there's a Starter msg followed by all threads/subthreads.


Once I get this formula down, I'll use it for all imported CoCo 
archives.  Sure, I could cheat and easily import each message as a 
new Post in the blog, what what a nightmare it would be to try to 
follow threads.  No way.
What's even better is if I could preserve the nested threads but this 
all depends on how the above algorithm can be improved, but I might 
need some help in this department.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Tue Sep 15 00:29:28 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:29:28 +1000
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>
References: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>
Message-ID: <4AAF1828.9060306@iinet.net.au>

Frank Swygert wrote:

> I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
> and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
> parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. 

IMHO, you're better off going down this path...
<http://www.snega2usb.com/wordpress/>

Make sure you check out the video, it's pretty schmick! ;)

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From lothan at newsguy.com  Tue Sep 15 00:42:56 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:42:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>

The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address 
specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining 
structures. In effect, the code you give

 ORG 0
A.LABEL1 rmb 1
A.LABEL2 rmb 1
A.LABEL3 rmb 2
A.LABEL4 rmb 1
A.LABEL equ .

set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one 
byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would 
something like this:

00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data

An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is 
actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:

Zero EQU 0

MySub LDA Zero
 LDB 0
 RTS

Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and 
you'll see this:

MySub LDA 0
 LDB 0
 RTS

Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 
5 since the current module offset is 5.


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better 
> now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following 
> is true?
>
> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
>
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
>
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
>
> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is 
> equating.
>
> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in 
> the list:
>
> A.LABEL5 equ
>
> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address 
> of 5 relative to org?
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer 
> Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>
>
>
> Wayne
>
> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is 
> tell the
> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte 
> or multiple
> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
>
> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as 
> a binary
> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used 
> for integer the
> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 
> if unsigned and -
> 127 to 128 if signed.
>
> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE 
> standard. Well
> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE 
> standard
> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 
> bytes for single
> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 
> bit mantissa,
> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have 
> an 11 bit
> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
>
> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each 
> number
> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only 
> want to
> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler 
> directive RMB to
> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
>
> FPACCA    RMB     4
>
> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
>
> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is 
> not machine
> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same 
> code over
> and over again.
>
> hope this helps
>
> james
>
> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>
>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None 
>> of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly 
>> gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>
>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>
>> I know that:
>>
>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is 
>> displayable?
>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>
>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>
>> A. form constant byte:
>>
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $42 B
>>   fcb   $41 A
>>   fcb   $53 S
>>   fcb   $49 I
>>   fcb   $43 C
>>   fcb   $30 0
>>   fcb   $39 9
>>   fcb   $0A
>>
>> B. form constant string:
>>
>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>   fcb   $0A
>>
>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   'B'
>>   fcc   'A'
>>   fcc   'S'
>>   fcc   'I'
>>   fcc   'C'
>>   fcc   '0'
>>   fcc   '9'
>>   fcb   $0A
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From lothan at newsguy.com  Tue Sep 15 00:41:06 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:41:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><dbdeb2610909121837r35b64056pe3ecbd940a5fec4a@mail.gmail.com><973132.19070.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com><1983FE3F1B314EAC8F39E0B9980A5C7C@Crossfire><132115.22027.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAD84AD.40806@l-w.ca>
	<888811.1516.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8AAC9685DEF64445AC2DA84AB3A7E4E8@Crossfire>

Keep in mind that the ORG statement is often used to define offsets for data 
structures that are later on accessed using indexed addressing. For example, 
you might have something like this in semi-kinda-sorta pseudo code:

MyStruct struct
byte glob
byte pram
byte type
byte dim
 end struct

The assembly-language equivalent might be defined thus:

 org 0
glob rmb 1
pram rmb 1
type rmb 1
dim rmb 1

Then later on in the code:

 pshs x # Save the X register
 ldx MyStruct # Load the address of MyStruct into X
 lda glob,x # Read MyStruct.glob
 ldb pram,x # Read MyStruct.pram
 bsr somewhere
 sta glob,x # Update MyStruct.glob
 stb pram,x # Update MyStruct.pram
 puls x # Restore original X

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:27 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

> I think I need to better establish what I already do understand. Having 
> written DCom, and currently writing its replacement (unpack), I already 
> understand that the compiled code contains no direct reference to 
> declarations.
>
> In Basic09 I-Code, there are no TYPE, DIM or PARAM statements. These 
> statements have to be determined by examining the variable references and 
> creating a map of the memory allocated to all of the data. In I-Code, 
> there are two tables that help with this. They are called the Symbol Table 
> (I call it the Variable Declaration Table, or VDT), and the description 
> area (I call it the Data Storage Allocation Table or DSAT).
>
> With these tables, I can reconstruct all of the TYPE, DIM and PARAM 
> statements. Since Baasic09 does not store a reference to a unused variable 
> (or field, in a record), there are usually "gaps" in the memory map. From 
> these gaps, I can determine something of what *might have* occurred there. 
> Example, if it is a 2-byte gap, I can assume an INTEGER, even though it 
> could also be 2 BYTES, 2 BOOLEANS, or 1 of each.
>
> Likewise, I understand that all of the rmb statements at the top of the 
> disasm output are reconstructed variables, based on the memory location 
> allocated, and its size. In order to understand what all those generic 
> uxxxx lables, I am trying to match them up to the header file.
>
>>From my understanding of data memory allocation, the header rmb entries 
>>should match the disasm rmb entries, if the object code being decompiled 
>>is the same version and build as the header file I am looking at. The 
>>problem comes in when the uxxxx label is being allocated 2 bytes, where 
>>the header shows 2 separate entries of 1 byte each.
>
> The entries in the header, from the beginning, define the tokens used in 
> Basic09 to represent the various keywords. Each location corresponds to 
> the token value of that keyword. Example:
>
>
> org 0
>
> T.GLOB rmb 1 Global (reserved) - set to $00, at location $00
> T.PRAM rmb 1 Param - set to $01, at location $01
> T.TYPE rmb 1 Type - set to $02, at location $02
> T.DIM  rmb 1 Dim - set to $03, at location $03
>
> The disasm output starts out correctly, but begins to be different at 
> u001C:
>
> u001C    rmb   2
>
> The header, in that same position, shows:
>
> T.EEXT rmb 1 Endexit
> T.ON   rmb 1 On
>
> There are other sections of the header that start with org 0, showing that 
> the following section begins allocation at a relative offset of 0. None of 
> them that I have compared to the disasm output matches anywhere near the 
> disasm output.
>
> In order to understand what Basic09 is doing with the data, I have to know 
> what the data is. I can only keep playing with it until I get that figured 
> out.
>
> As far as understanding the assembly instructions is concerned, I can tell 
> you exactly (well, almost) what each instruction is doing. What I can't 
> tell you is what any specific grouping of instructions is doing. I can't 
> tell the difference between code that is performing a calculation and 
> acting on the result, and code that is writing output to a data buffer.
>
> The Motorola manual is a big help, as is the os9 development system 
> manuals (L1 & L2). By being able to refer to all 3, I am better able to 
> sort out what the instructions are doing. What I sorely lack is example of 
> commented code that show me what different kinds of code looks like, like 
> "this is a loop in assembly", or "this is a subroutine in assembly, and 
> how you call it". The samples don't go very far, and the Assist09 ROM 
> listing in the Motorola manual is so long I could study it for 10 years 
> and come no closer to understanding it. The tutorials online are either so 
> generic it's difficult to translate, or so specific to the processor being 
> discussed that it's impossible to translate.
>
> I'm guessing that, before it's all over, I will have to try to write some 
> assembly code and go through the debugging process to get what's going on.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:47:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>
> Wayne Campbell wrote:
>> If it is read sequentially at the beginning, then I need to understand 
>> why the order of the rmb's at the beginning of the decompile are in a 
>> different order from the header file.
>
> I think you're a bit confused about what a header file actually is. A 
> header file is merely a sequence of definitions which DOES NOT generate 
> any output whatsoever. Usually, a header file simply defines constants and 
> possibly memory locations for use by the program including the file.
>
> All files are read sequentially from start to finish by the assembler. The 
> contents of a header file should not ever appear in the assembled binary. 
> If a header causes anything to appear in the output, it is not, 
> technically, a header file.
>
> For instance, a header file might look something like so:
>
>    ORG 0
> TOKEN1    RMB 1
> TOKEN2    RMB 2
> TOKEN3    RMB 3
>
> and so on. All that does is define TOKEN1 as 0, TOKEN2 as 1, and TOKEN3 as 
> 2. None of that will appear in the output file, however.
>
> -- William Astle
> lost at l-w.ca
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From lothan at newsguy.com  Tue Sep 15 00:52:35 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:52:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <9A97D0E7D90047878C412E1260202311@Crossfire>

I think you're heading in the right direction. The only way to really 
preserve the threads is to load the bulk of the messages in its entirety 
into either a database or a dictionary in memory. The database idea might 
work, but then it becomes a monstrous task to rebuild the threads back to a 
single parent since the nesting level is potentially infinite. Even though 
it's possible, it's not likely worth the effort unless you load all the 
Message Ids into something like a balanced tree or a red-black tree 
(basically a self-balancing tree).

If I remember those thread correctly (bearing in mind it's been something 
like 20 years since I've look at them), most of the threads are relatively 
short so it shouldn't be much of a problem to ignore the extreme cases.

Let me know if you need any help with them and I'll do what I can.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:56 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages

>
> I'm at the point now where a bunch of messages have been loaded into a 
> SortedList which is a key-based dictionary/array that sorts automatically 
> while items are added.
> I'm tagging each message with it's Delphi-generated ID (found in the 
> message header), and the message PARENT (optionally found in the subject 
> line of the message header).
>
> Both the ID and PARENT are stored in the list along with the body, 
> subject, date, etc.  I then enumerate through the list which returns all 
> the message IDs in ORDER from low to high.
> I can check whether the message is a POST (has no parent), or REPLY 
> (contains a parent message ID)
>
> Here's where the work really comes.  I need a new sorted list that orders 
> the keys by Thread Starter, Thread Participants
>
>
> Original Post
>   Reply to original
>   Reply to original
>   Reply to some reply to original
>   Reply to reply #2 above
>   Reply to #4 above
> Original Post
>   same list of replies and replies to those replies (if any)
> Original Post
> ... etc.
>
> Any messages that eventually lead back to the original post ID just need 
> to be sorted that way in the new list so I can show them on the site to be 
> Comments of the Original Message, with no nesting used.  I feel like the 
> nesting levels may be too deep to make it worthwhile to recreate the 
> entire thread depth visually.
>
> Another issue is "the missing parent" syndrome since these archives are 
> taken out of a slice of time.  Any message that points to a nonexistent 
> parent should be remarked as a Thread Starter and the whole sorting 
> process restarted.  I'm going to work on the missing parent thing tonight.
>
> Out of ~1800 messages just for December 1993 of Delphi, you can see that 
> no sorting can be done by hand.
> Does anyone have a formula that comes to mind for finding all messages 
> that ultimately lead back to the same parent?
>
> Here is just a small cut of the debug readout I'm using to get a better 
> idea of things.  The first message I have (by Delphi ID) for Dec 1993 is 
> of course, something from a thread but not the master of the thread.  Any 
> messages shown to be "a reply to #####" and the ##### is less than 82350 
> is clearly leading to a missing message, so those have to be remarked as 
> having a parent of 0 which makes it a Thread Starter now just to give the 
> message a place in the WordPress blog scheme.
>
> The list below is only sorted by message ID, not any considerations for 
> threads.
>
> 82350: is a reply to 82331
> 82351: is a reply to 82309
> 82352: is a reply to 82342
> 82353: is a reply to 82345
> 82354: is a starter post
> 82355: is a reply to 82343
> 82356: is a reply to 82344
> 82357: is a reply to 82351
> 82358: is a reply to 82352
> 82359: is a reply to 82336
> 82360: is a reply to 82355
> 82361: is a reply to 82360
> 82362: is a starter post
> 82363: is a reply to 82359
> 82364: is a reply to 82326
> 82365: is a reply to 82306
> 82366: is a reply to 82306
> 82367: is a reply to 82362
> 82368: is a reply to 82363
> 82369: is a reply to 82315
> 82370: is a reply to 82342
> 82371: is a starter post
> 82372: is a reply to 82297
> 82373: is a starter post
> 82374: is a reply to 82310
> 82375: is a reply to 82312
> 82376: is a reply to 82371
> 82377: is a reply to 82340
> 82378: is a reply to 82376
> 82379: is a reply to 82342
> 82380: is a reply to 82378
> 82381: is a reply to 82371
> 82382: is a reply to 82375
> 82383: is a reply to 82371
> 82384: is a starter post
> 82385: is a reply to 82304
> 82386: is a reply to 82384
> 82387: is a starter post
> 82388: is a reply to 82382
> 82389: is a reply to 82384
> 82390: is a reply to 82373
> -- 
> ~ signature section for all e-mails-
> ~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
> really complained, but here's mine:
> ~ Roger Taylor
> ~ http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 15 01:13:28 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:13:28 -0500
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
In-Reply-To: <9A97D0E7D90047878C412E1260202311@Crossfire>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
	<9A97D0E7D90047878C412E1260202311@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915000050.05d67a60@coco3.com>

At 11:52 PM 9/14/2009, you wrote:
>I think you're heading in the right direction. The only way to 
>really preserve the threads is to load the bulk of the messages in 
>its entirety into either a database or a dictionary in memory. The 
>database idea might work, but then it becomes a monstrous task to 
>rebuild the threads back to a single parent since the nesting level 
>is potentially infinite. Even though it's possible, it's not likely 
>worth the effort unless you load all the Message Ids into something 
>like a balanced tree or a red-black tree (basically a self-balancing tree).
>
>If I remember those thread correctly (bearing in mind it's been 
>something like 20 years since I've look at them), most of the 
>threads are relatively short so it shouldn't be much of a problem to 
>ignore the extreme cases.
>
>Let me know if you need any help with them and I'll do what I can.

Sometimes the simplest solutions work wonders, but we'll see in this case.
The below snippet is producing a promising list of msg IDs sorted by 
parent ID.  Whether or not the first routine is needed or not, I 
don't know yet.. it was a quick first attempt of inserting the posts 
at the right indexes in the new table.  If a post is inserted after 
it's parent, then unlimited nesting would be handled, but when it 
comes time to XML this stuff, the ID #'s have to be converted to 
0-based IDs for the WordPress comments.  I'm nearing that chore 
probably tomorrow.  If all goes well enough, threading should be recovered.


    ' find all Thread Starters and add to new list
         For Each msgitems In Posts
             key = Val(msgitems.Key)
             foundmsg = CType(Posts(key), Msg)
             If foundmsg.Sorted = False Then
                 If foundmsg.Parent = 0 Then
                     foundmsg.Sorted = True
                     Threads.Add(foundmsg)
                     report &= "Sorted Thread Starter " & foundmsg.ID 
& " into new list " & vbCrLf
                 End If
             End If
         Next

         ' find all Replies and insert them after their parent ID in 
the new list
         For Each msgitems In Posts
             key = Val(msgitems.Key)
             foundmsg = CType(Posts(key), Msg)
             If foundmsg.Sorted = False Then
                 If foundmsg.Parent > 0 Then
                     parentkey = foundmsg.Parent
                     parentmsg = CType(Posts(parentkey), Msg)
                     parentidx = Threads.IndexOf(parentmsg)
                     If parentidx < 0 Then
                         parentidx = 0
                     End If
                     foundmsg.Sorted = True
                     Threads.Insert(parentidx, foundmsg)
                     report &= "Sorted Reply " & foundmsg.ID & " into 
new list " & vbCrLf
                 End If
             End If
         Next



-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 15 01:24:51 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:24:51 -0500
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915000050.05d67a60@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
	<9A97D0E7D90047878C412E1260202311@Crossfire>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090915000050.05d67a60@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915001829.05d67e38@coco3.com>

Pardon, now the threads are being reconstructed in my messages 
array.  The insertion index should be +1 (after the located index of 
the parent).

             Threads.Insert(parentidx + 1, foundmsg)

I can see from the raw Delphi digest that my new thread-ordered list 
of message IDs is checking out ok so far.  The lost threads are 
inserted at the top and need to be turned into Posts and not Replies.
This means that every time I get a new Delphi digest from the web (if 
they exist) I'll have to rebuild the entire WordPress XML file for 
Delphi so the lost messages can find their place in the threads.

The reason I have a lot of lost messages in my list is that I'm 
dealing with Dec 1993 and obviously there are posts from Nov 1993 
that play a part in some threads I'm trying to reconstruct... so the 
more Delphi messages I can get ahold of, the less out-of-thread 
messages I have to deal with.

-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 15 01:35:10 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:35:10 -0500
Subject: [Coco] sorting Delphi messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915001829.05d67e38@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090914223604.05ec2960@coco3.com>
	<9A97D0E7D90047878C412E1260202311@Crossfire>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090915000050.05d67a60@coco3.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090915001829.05d67e38@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915002611.05d68210@coco3.com>


Things are looking GOOD now!  I've dumped a clip of message IDs that 
are somewhat thread-sorted then a clip from the Delphi December 1993 
file I have.  I now need to create 0-based IDs for "replies" so 
WordPress will show them nested in pretty boxes inside of their 
parent reply, etc, and all falling under the original Post.



84329
84333
   reply  84349
84337
84340
   reply  84351
   reply  84357
   reply  84371
84346
   reply  84350
84356
84359
84361
84366
84370   <------------------------- topic / thread starter
   reply  84372  <----------------------- reply to 84370
   reply  84376  <----------------------- reply to 84372
84373
84380
84399
   reply  84412
   reply  84424
   reply  84435
   reply  84427
   reply  84429
   reply  84415
   reply  84426
   reply  84403
   reply  84423
   reply  84434
   reply  84428
   reply  84430
   reply  84414
   reply  84433



84370 25-DEC 19:46 General Information
      WD controllers
      From: ILLUSIONIST  To: ALL

does anyone know of a source for WD hard drive controllers for use with the
B&B XT system???? I have combed through a mess of PC mags' and cant find
one. I guess I could look into pulling one from an XT..but I would rather
just find a vendor..thanks.

                                                      -* Mike

-*-

84372 25-DEC 22:34 General Information
      RE: WD controllers (Re: Msg 84370)
      From: BRUCEGERST   To: ILLUSIONIST

I was reading in the November issue of  the world of 68' micros on page 4
  3rd column top.  says WD XTGEN compatible controllers and cables are also
available, inquire.

Winchester Service   4545 Industrial St. Unit 6Em Simi Valler, CA
93063;805-584-6409

might give them a shout and see, let me know what they have, OK?


-*-

84376 25-DEC 23:18 General Information
      RE: WD controllers (Re: Msg 84372)
      From: ILLUSIONIST  To: BRUCEGERST

thanks, I will inquire as soon as I can.. and I will leave a messge here on
the forum about what they have.. thanks again..
                                                  -* Mike

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-
-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From Torsten at Dittel.info  Tue Sep 15 08:03:23 2009
From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:03:23 +0200
Subject: [Coco] CoCo2 Clone "MISEDO 85": better picture...
In-Reply-To: <h8mir2$t7f$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <h8mir2$t7f$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <h8nvqa$gc1$1@ger.gmane.org>

http://www.pcpress.co.yu/pcmuzej/images/galerija/misedo85_big.jpg



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 14:53:01 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Everything you said here is exactly what I thought was going on. I'm guessing that the token list is reserving memory for each label as a temporary list that's used to identify the keywords in the fcb's in the module, something like:

L0140    fcb   $01
         fcb   $01 
         fcb   $50 P
         fcb   $41 A
         fcb   $52 R
         fcb   $41 A
         fcb   $CD M

might have been originally coded:

T.SIZE equ $01 since almost all of the tokens have a size of 1, this might have been used

keywords fcb T.PRAM
         fcb T.SIZE
         fcc "PARAM"

I'm still not certain, but this at least makes more sense to me than trying to match up 256 program variables to 256 token codes.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:42:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining structures. In effect, the code you give

ORG 0
A.LABEL1 rmb 1
A.LABEL2 rmb 1
A.LABEL3 rmb 2
A.LABEL4 rmb 1
A.LABEL equ .

set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would something like this:

00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data

An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:

Zero EQU 0

MySub LDA Zero
LDB 0
RTS

Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and you'll see this:

MySub LDA 0
LDB 0
RTS

Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 5 since the current module offset is 5.


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
> 
> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
> 
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
> 
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
> 
> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
> 
> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
> 
> A.LABEL5 equ
> 
> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> 
> 
> Wayne
> 
> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the
> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple
> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
> 
> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary
> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the
> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
> 127 to 128 if signed.
> 
> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well
> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard
> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single
> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa,
> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit
> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
> 
> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number
> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to
> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to
> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
> 
> FPACCA    RMB     4
> 
> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
> 
> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine
> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over
> and over again.
> 
> hope this helps
> 
> james
> 
> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
> 
>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>> 
>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>> 
>> I know that:
>> 
>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>> 
>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>> 
>> A. form constant byte:
>> 
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $20
>>   fcb   $42 B
>>   fcb   $41 A
>>   fcb   $53 S
>>   fcb   $49 I
>>   fcb   $43 C
>>   fcb   $30 0
>>   fcb   $39 9
>>   fcb   $0A
>> 
>> B. form constant string:
>> 
>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>   fcb   $0A
>> 
>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>> 
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   ' '
>>   fcc   'B'
>>   fcc   'A'
>>   fcc   'S'
>>   fcc   'I'
>>   fcc   'C'
>>   fcc   '0'
>>   fcc   '9'
>>   fcb   $0A
>> 
>> Wayne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com  Tue Sep 15 15:19:39 2009
From: uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com (uhmgawa)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:19:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Assembler Question???
In-Reply-To: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
References: <4A9EA06B.19241.149C7D@jdaggett.gate.net>
Message-ID: <4AAFE8CB.5030700@third-harmonic.com>

jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> I have started looking at two FPGA cores for
> the 6809 in altering one of them to handle 
> 6309 opcodes..

I can't help but be curious what the motivation
behind this may be.  Is this just experimentation
or is there a specific issue (processing throughput,
architectural modification, power consumption,
etc..) you are trying to address?

-- 
uhmgawa at third-harmonic.com


From lost at l-w.ca  Tue Sep 15 15:59:26 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:59:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
	<707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> Everything you said here is exactly what I thought was going on. I'm guessing that the token list is reserving memory for each label as a temporary list that's used to identify the keywords in the fcb's in the module, something like:
> 
> L0140    fcb   $01
>          fcb   $01 
>          fcb   $50 P
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $52 R
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $CD M
> 
> might have been originally coded:
> 
> T.SIZE equ $01 since almost all of the tokens have a size of 1, this might have been used
> 
> keywords fcb T.PRAM
>          fcb T.SIZE
>          fcc "PARAM"
> 
> I'm still not certain, but this at least makes more sense to me than trying to match up 256 program variables to 256 token codes.

That seems quite likely, actually. That would also explain why there
would be no "references" since the disassembler doesn't know what all
the random data in fcb/fcc statements is so it cannot reconstruct the
original rmbs.

Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

This is the wonderful thing about asm programming. There is no such
thing as a "variable" as far as asm is concerned - only addresses and
values at addresses.

> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:42:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining structures. In effect, the code you give
> 
> ORG 0
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1
> A.LABEL equ .
> 
> set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would something like this:
> 
> 00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data
> 
> An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:
> 
> Zero EQU 0
> 
> MySub LDA Zero
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and you'll see this:
> 
> MySub LDA 0
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 5 since the current module offset is 5.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
>> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
>>
>> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
>>
>> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
>> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
>>
>> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
>> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
>>
>> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
>>
>> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
>>
>> A.LABEL5 equ
>>
>> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
>> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the
>> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple
>> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
>>
>> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary
>> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the
>> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
>> 127 to 128 if signed.
>>
>> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well
>> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard
>> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single
>> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa,
>> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit
>> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
>>
>> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number
>> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to
>> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to
>> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
>>
>> FPACCA    RMB     4
>>
>> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
>>
>> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine
>> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over
>> and over again.
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> james
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>>
>>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>>
>>> I know that:
>>>
>>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>>
>>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>>
>>> A. form constant byte:
>>>
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $42 B
>>>   fcb   $41 A
>>>   fcb   $53 S
>>>   fcb   $49 I
>>>   fcb   $43 C
>>>   fcb   $30 0
>>>   fcb   $39 9
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> B. form constant string:
>>>
>>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>>
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   'B'
>>>   fcc   'A'
>>>   fcc   'S'
>>>   fcc   'I'
>>>   fcc   'C'
>>>   fcc   '0'
>>>   fcc   '9'
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From jdaggett at gate.net  Tue Sep 15 16:09:48 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:09:48 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AAF1828.9060306@iinet.net.au>
References: <4AAEF16F.6030502@att.net>, <4AAF1828.9060306@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <4AAFF48C.27309.6C7765@jdaggett.gate.net>

Mark

Even better? 

A MPI with USB interface????

james

On 15 Sep 2009 at 14:29, Mark McDougall wrote:

> Frank Swygert wrote:
> 
> > I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
> > and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
> > parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. 
> 
> IMHO, you're better off going down this path...
> <http://www.snega2usb.com/wordpress/>
> 
> Make sure you check out the video, it's pretty schmick! ;)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> |              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
> |  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 16:48:02 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
	<707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <922803.60167.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


>Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

The reason I used fcc is because I did not notice that the token names have bit 7 set. oops.




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> Everything you said here is exactly what I thought was going on. I'm guessing that the token list is reserving memory for each label as a temporary list that's used to identify the keywords in the fcb's in the module, something like:
> 
> L0140    fcb   $01
>          fcb   $01 
>          fcb   $50 P
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $52 R
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $CD M
> 
> might have been originally coded:
> 
> T.SIZE equ $01 since almost all of the tokens have a size of 1, this might have been used
> 
> keywords fcb T.PRAM
>          fcb T.SIZE
>          fcc "PARAM"
> 
> I'm still not certain, but this at least makes more sense to me than trying to match up 256 program variables to 256 token codes.

That seems quite likely, actually. That would also explain why there
would be no "references" since the disassembler doesn't know what all
the random data in fcb/fcc statements is so it cannot reconstruct the
original rmbs.

Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

This is the wonderful thing about asm programming. There is no such
thing as a "variable" as far as asm is concerned - only addresses and
values at addresses.

> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:42:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining structures. In effect, the code you give
> 
> ORG 0
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1
> A.LABEL equ .
> 
> set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would something like this:
> 
> 00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data
> 
> An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:
> 
> Zero EQU 0
> 
> MySub LDA Zero
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and you'll see this:
> 
> MySub LDA 0
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 5 since the current module offset is 5.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
>> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
>>
>> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
>>
>> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
>> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
>>
>> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
>> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
>>
>> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
>>
>> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
>>
>> A.LABEL5 equ
>>
>> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
>> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the
>> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple
>> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
>>
>> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary
>> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the
>> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
>> 127 to 128 if signed.
>>
>> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well
>> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard
>> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single
>> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa,
>> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit
>> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
>>
>> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number
>> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to
>> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to
>> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
>>
>> FPACCA    RMB     4
>>
>> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
>>
>> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine
>> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over
>> and over again.
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> james
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>>
>>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>>
>>> I know that:
>>>
>>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>>
>>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>>
>>> A. form constant byte:
>>>
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $42 B
>>>   fcb   $41 A
>>>   fcb   $53 S
>>>   fcb   $49 I
>>>   fcb   $43 C
>>>   fcb   $30 0
>>>   fcb   $39 9
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> B. form constant string:
>>>
>>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>>
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   'B'
>>>   fcc   'A'
>>>   fcc   'S'
>>>   fcc   'I'
>>>   fcc   'C'
>>>   fcc   '0'
>>>   fcc   '9'
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>      
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 16:48:14 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
	<707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <724837.75296.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


>Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

The reason I used fcc is because I did not notice that the token names have bit 7 set. oops.




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> Everything you said here is exactly what I thought was going on. I'm guessing that the token list is reserving memory for each label as a temporary list that's used to identify the keywords in the fcb's in the module, something like:
> 
> L0140    fcb   $01
>          fcb   $01 
>          fcb   $50 P
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $52 R
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $CD M
> 
> might have been originally coded:
> 
> T.SIZE equ $01 since almost all of the tokens have a size of 1, this might have been used
> 
> keywords fcb T.PRAM
>          fcb T.SIZE
>          fcc "PARAM"
> 
> I'm still not certain, but this at least makes more sense to me than trying to match up 256 program variables to 256 token codes.

That seems quite likely, actually. That would also explain why there
would be no "references" since the disassembler doesn't know what all
the random data in fcb/fcc statements is so it cannot reconstruct the
original rmbs.

Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

This is the wonderful thing about asm programming. There is no such
thing as a "variable" as far as asm is concerned - only addresses and
values at addresses.

> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:42:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining structures. In effect, the code you give
> 
> ORG 0
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1
> A.LABEL equ .
> 
> set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would something like this:
> 
> 00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data
> 
> An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:
> 
> Zero EQU 0
> 
> MySub LDA Zero
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and you'll see this:
> 
> MySub LDA 0
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 5 since the current module offset is 5.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
>> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
>>
>> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
>>
>> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
>> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
>>
>> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
>> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
>>
>> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
>>
>> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
>>
>> A.LABEL5 equ
>>
>> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
>> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the
>> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple
>> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
>>
>> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary
>> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the
>> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
>> 127 to 128 if signed.
>>
>> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well
>> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard
>> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single
>> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa,
>> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit
>> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
>>
>> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number
>> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to
>> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to
>> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
>>
>> FPACCA    RMB     4
>>
>> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
>>
>> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine
>> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over
>> and over again.
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> james
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>>
>>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>>
>>> I know that:
>>>
>>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>>
>>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>>
>>> A. form constant byte:
>>>
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $42 B
>>>   fcb   $41 A
>>>   fcb   $53 S
>>>   fcb   $49 I
>>>   fcb   $43 C
>>>   fcb   $30 0
>>>   fcb   $39 9
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> B. form constant string:
>>>
>>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>>
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   'B'
>>>   fcc   'A'
>>>   fcc   'S'
>>>   fcc   'I'
>>>   fcc   'C'
>>>   fcc   '0'
>>>   fcc   '9'
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>      
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 16:48:39 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] questions about constants
In-Reply-To: <4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
References: <367192.60915.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4AAC6408.22295.D63FC7@jdaggett.gate.net>
	<481794.40117.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<217BD2209AE247E19548EE63A2F17DE3@Crossfire>
	<707740.5120.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AAFF21E.4040005@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <568271.13755.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


>Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

The reason I used fcc is because I did not notice that the token names have bit 7 set. oops.




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> Everything you said here is exactly what I thought was going on. I'm guessing that the token list is reserving memory for each label as a temporary list that's used to identify the keywords in the fcb's in the module, something like:
> 
> L0140    fcb   $01
>          fcb   $01 
>          fcb   $50 P
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $52 R
>          fcb   $41 A
>          fcb   $CD M
> 
> might have been originally coded:
> 
> T.SIZE equ $01 since almost all of the tokens have a size of 1, this might have been used
> 
> keywords fcb T.PRAM
>          fcb T.SIZE
>          fcc "PARAM"
> 
> I'm still not certain, but this at least makes more sense to me than trying to match up 256 program variables to 256 token codes.

That seems quite likely, actually. That would also explain why there
would be no "references" since the disassembler doesn't know what all
the random data in fcb/fcc statements is so it cannot reconstruct the
original rmbs.

Incidentally, that would be fcs rather than fcc - fcs causes bit 7 in
the final character to be set, fcc does not.

This is the wonderful thing about asm programming. There is no such
thing as a "variable" as far as asm is concerned - only addresses and
values at addresses.

> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:42:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
> The ORG statement effectively sets the module offset to the address specified, although it can be a bit more complicated that than when defining structures. In effect, the code you give
> 
> ORG 0
> A.LABEL1 rmb 1
> A.LABEL2 rmb 1
> A.LABEL3 rmb 2
> A.LABEL4 rmb 1
> A.LABEL equ .
> 
> set the base to zero, then reserves one byte of memory for A.LABEL2, one byte for A.LABEL2, and so forth. Looking at the actual binary data, it would something like this:
> 
> 00 00 00 00 00 ... remainder of binary data
> 
> An equate (or EQU) assigns a constant value to a label, but the label is actually replaced with the real value. In other words, take this code:
> 
> Zero EQU 0
> 
> MySub LDA Zero
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Run that through the assembler, then disassamble the resulting binary and you'll see this:
> 
> MySub LDA 0
> LDB 0
> RTS
> 
> Going back to the top, A.LABEL EQU . is (if my brain is working half right) 5 since the current module offset is 5.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:14 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
> 
>> I believe I understand the compiler directives and pseudo op codes better now. In order to make sure I am looking at things correctly, the following is true?
>>
>> org 0 sets the current . value to 0
>>
>> A.LABEL1 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 0 to org
>> A.LABEL2 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 1 to org
>>
>> A.LABEL3 rmb 2 this A memory address is relative 2 or org
>> A.LABEL4 rmb 1 this A memory address is relative 4 to org
>>
>> I know that equ is a system equate. What I'm not sure of, is what it is equating.
>>
>> For example, say the above is true, and the following line comes next in the list:
>>
>> A.LABEL5 equ
>>
>> does this mean that A.LABEL5 is being set to a value of 5, or the address of 5 relative to org?
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "jdaggett at gate.net" <jdaggett at gate.net>
>> To: Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>; CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:16:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] questions about constants
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> FCB, FCC, FCS are assembler directives and not opcodes. What they do is tell the
>> assembler at that place in memory to reserve a single byte, a double byte or multiple
>> bytes. This used to hold a spot for data, screen prompts or table entries.
>>
>> Memory for all processors are in binary form. Integers are represented as a binary
>> number. They can be 8 bit, 16 bit or even 32 bit form. The more bits used for integer the
>> larger teh integer value you can have. 8 bit integers are limited 0 tp 255 if unsigned and -
>> 127 to 128 if signed.
>>
>> Real numbers are stored as floating point binary numbers per the IEEE standard. Well
>> the Coco is not IEEE standard as the DEC Basic was written before the IEEE standard
>> was formed. To store a IEEE binary floating point number you need to 4 bytes for single
>> precision, 8 bytes for double presicion. In single presicion you have a 23 bit mantissa,
>> one sign bit and an 8 bit weighted exponent. For double presicion you have an 11 bit
>> weighted exponent, one sign bit and 62 bit mantissa.
>>
>> These require any program to reserve appropriate amount of memory for each number
>> used. You can use FCBs to reserve the bytes needed. In the case you only want to
>> declare the space and not assign a value,  you can use the asembler directive RMB to
>> reserve space. If you wish to reserve 4 bytes you can do this.
>>
>> FPACCA    RMB     4
>>
>> This will reseve 4 bytes for floating point accumaltor A.
>>
>> Assembler directives are a way to tell the assembler that all the code is not machine
>> code. Some maybe data, a macro so that you do not have to type the same code over
>> and over again.
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> james
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2009 at 16:41, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked at a dozen tutorials on assembly language programming. None of them address the op codes fcb, fcc or fcs, so I'm asking the assembly gurus on this list to help explain this to me.
>>>
>>> What are the differences between fcb, fcc and fcs?
>>> Is there a fci or fcr(/f/d) (for integer and real(/float/double) values)?
>>>
>>> I know that:
>>>
>>>   fcb = form constant byte   = any constant numeric byte value?
>>>   fcc = form constant char   = any constant character that is displayable?
>>>   fcs = form constant string = any constant string?
>>>
>>> Are the following equivalent, so far as the assembler is concerned?
>>>
>>> A. form constant byte:
>>>
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $20
>>>   fcb   $42 B
>>>   fcb   $41 A
>>>   fcb   $53 S
>>>   fcb   $49 I
>>>   fcb   $43 C
>>>   fcb   $30 0
>>>   fcb   $39 9
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> B. form constant string:
>>>
>>>   fcs   /            BASIC09/
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> C. would using form constant char be equivalent?
>>>
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   ' '
>>>   fcc   'B'
>>>   fcc   'A'
>>>   fcc   'S'
>>>   fcc   'I'
>>>   fcc   'C'
>>>   fcc   '0'
>>>   fcc   '9'
>>>   fcb   $0A
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>      
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 16:52:01 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] accidental multiple posts
Message-ID: <201584.14143.qm@web53710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

My router connection was interrupted, and the post I sent kept saying there was an error, and I clicked resend twice. Afterwards, I noticed 3 copies of the post in the sent folder. If 3 copies of the last post from me show up on the list, please forgive me for the multiple posts.

Wayne



      


From farna at att.net  Tue Sep 15 16:53:26 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:53:26 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AAFFEC6.9090308@att.net>

It should be fast enough to send/receive commands for something like a 
relay board too. I've seen a relay or generic I/O board for a parallel 
port on a PC before. I'm looking at the maximum use of existing, 
inexpensive hardware. Even a P4 small form factor computer goes for 
under $200 with 512MB and a 20-40GB hard drive. Drop to a standard 
Pentium or a P2/P3 class processor and it's even less -- but running a 
DOS based CoCo emulator from flash memory or a USB drive would make even 
a P1 one heck of a fast CoCo! Once that was up and running we could look 
at expanding the capabilities of the hybrid machine to create more or 
less a "CoCo4". That is if we can get the source code to one of the DOS 
emulators, or the author to tweak it some. I'd think it should at least 
have a CC2/3 mode, even if the advanced capabilities had to be locked 
out, even if it required rebooting the system. I still like the idea of 
having it boot up to a simple menu screen that had several options, one 
being the capability of creating a real CoCo disk (provided an 
acceptable drive is present) and transferring files. Would be even 
better if CoCoNet or Drivewire were built into the emulator.

I'd really like to see SECB expanded as well as OS-9 capabilities, only 
because SECB is so easy to program. The only problem is any expanded 
functions would only work on the "CC4", but if the "CC4" concept 
described above could be packaged on a "live cd" like some Linux 
distributions (oh if it could be done with a small linux instead of 
DOS!!), or on a USB drive, then there should be no problems. Nitros 
would just need some new drivers...


jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
Frank

EPP interface is used in configuring FPGAs. So being able to send and 
read data from a ROM cartridge should not be all too tricky. Only thing 
if I remember correctly EPP/ECP port speed in not all that fast. Still 
fast enough to move it from the cartridge to a virtual ROM in a PC.
An interesting idea.

james

On 14 Sep 2009 at 21:44, Frank Swygert wrote:

  Okay, I never have been much of a programmer, and really done little 
more hardware than a few kits and mods to existing hardware, but I've 
been thinking too much!

One of you programming guys take a look at the resources on this site: 
http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm
I've been comparing the pin-out of a parallel port to that of the CoCo 
expansion port. I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. Might have to add a source of 
external power, but that could be a cord that goes back into the PC case 
and plugs into a drive connector. Hey, even move +12V out there! The 
goal would be to use cartridges for data transfer purposes or to 
build/use an inexpensive I/O board. Throw the cartridge compatibility 
out and just make it a multi-purpose/experimenter's I/O board with a 
wire-wrap header and I think it gets cheaper and easier. Limit the goal 
to a data I/O board that could be programmed from Nitros9 or DECB and 
forget the cartridge connector and things get easier!

The real headache I see is the 13 address lines. There would have to be 
some kind of decoding done on the board so that only a couple lines on 
the parallel port could be used for decoding. But then again if you 
throw away direct cartridge compatibility and use it strictly for data 
I/O, is that much address decoding really necessary? Told you I wasn't 
much of a programmer/hardware builder!!
Programming the port from DECB is my main interest. One thing I always 
liked most about the CoCo was the easy I/O projects and using it as a 
controller. Started to write a digital dash for my car using just the 
serial, cassette, and joystick ports for inputs (mainly the relay on the 
cassette port). Lack of an inexpensive display easy to install in the 
dash stopped me! There are such animals for cars now, but that 
programmable I/O port would sure make a CoCo emulator customized and 
installed in flash memory on a simple single board computer (maybe an 
inexpensive Mini ITX with a VIA 800MHz chip...) a real possibility. The 
older Mini ITX boards are starting to show up on e-bay priced reall 
nicely. Would make a good base for a "CoCo4" (didn't want to use that in 
the subject line though!!). Use a IDE to flash card adapter for the main 
drive, then attach a small IDE laptop drive....

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From farna at att.net  Tue Sep 15 17:02:56 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:02:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AB00100.7050502@att.net>

That's pretty slick, but I think what I'm asking for would be cheaper to 
make. You really just need a way to decode the address bits. Plus it 
doesn't really need to read a cartridge, it could just act like the port 
with a wire wrap header for experimenters. My idea is really to do it as 
cheap as possible -- costs is the main reason the CC in an FPGA on a new 
board hasn't gone over well. Most of us have older PCs that aren't much 
good for anything, P1/2/3/4 machines that are cheap now because they are 
outdated. Would still make a fast CC4/hybrid machine. To tell the truth, 
the whole "PC as CC4" bit could do without the cartridge port 
altogether, there's nothing that the CoCo could do (except I/O control) 
through the port that can't be emulated. So unless you wanted to use the 
port for a relay board or some other type of data aquisition project, 
it's not necessary. -------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:29:28 +1000 
From: Mark McDougall <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> Frank Swygert wrote:

> > I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap 
> > and easy to make a small converter board that would plug into a standard 
> > parallel port and take a CoCo cartridge. 
>   

IMHO, you're better off going down this path...
<http://www.snega2usb.com/wordpress/>

Make sure you check out the video, it's pretty schmick!  ;) 

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From mdelyea at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 17:48:38 2009
From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:48:38 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AB00100.7050502@att.net>
References: <4AB00100.7050502@att.net>
Message-ID: <1b52e6c80909151448h3a3006des7fb7590a2b9e6ec2@mail.gmail.com>

The thing that concerns me is audio.  Does anybody even make a sound
card that works in DOS anymore.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Frank Swygert <farna at att.net> wrote:
> That's pretty slick, but I think what I'm asking for would be cheaper to
> make. You really just need a way to decode the address bits. Plus it doesn't
> really need to read a cartridge, it could just act like the port with a wire
> wrap header for experimenters. My idea is really to do it as cheap as
> possible -- costs is the main reason the CC in an FPGA on a new board hasn't
> gone over well. Most of us have older PCs that aren't much good for
> anything, P1/2/3/4 machines that are cheap now because they are outdated.
> Would still make a fast CC4/hybrid machine. To tell the truth, the whole "PC
> as CC4" bit could do without the cartridge port altogether, there's nothing
> that the CoCo could do (except I/O control) through the port that can't be
> emulated. So unless you wanted to use the port for a relay board or some
> other type of data aquisition project, it's not necessary. --------------
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:29:28 +1000 From: Mark McDougall
> <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> Frank Swygert wrote:
>
>> > I'm almost convinced that it would be relatively cheap > and easy to
>> > make a small converter board that would plug into a standard > parallel port
>> > and take a CoCo cartridge.
>
> IMHO, you're better off going down this path...
> <http://www.snega2usb.com/wordpress/>
>
> Make sure you check out the video, it's pretty schmick! ?;)
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> (free download available!)
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 15 18:36:59 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Editor priveledges at coco3.com
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090915171308.05d79c98@coco3.com>

Right now most everybody is given Author status when they sign up at 
the new community site.  Authors can originate their own posts and 
include videos, music, pictures, with large write-ups.  I feel that 
in order for the site to grow to what people really want to see, 
everyone having Author status is one of the best things I can do for 
now.  I'm watching the articles grow daily and we haven't even gotten 
fired up yet.

The Editor status goes beyond that of an Author and allows you to 
also create rich content HTML pages that show up in the menus where 
you like.  You can also upload images and files and do other things 
nobody else can do.  The idea is to let admin-trusted members to 
control parts of the site.  You could have, say, 20 or more HTML 
pages of what you like, that fall under a top page that shows in the 
menu.  The sub pages would drop down in a menu when the visitor hovers over it.

Articles are found by searching or looking until you stumble across 
them, but Pages are easily seen because they show up in the menus 
visible on every page.

You can even use an iframe in your page HTML to do things like I did 
on the Mocha emulator page.  That is the author's actual web page on 
his server, and my iframe just brings it into view (which is a CoCo 2 
emulator running in your browser).  You can do that kind of stuff and 
more with Editor status.

To help pay the bills around here and keep producing CoCo goodies, 
I'd like to offer Editor status for a small fee to any trusted member 
who asks and is approved.  You would then be able to actually build 
parts of the site however you like without having to send any 
material to me hoping I will have time to manage your pages.  Due to 
a lack of time, I didn't have time to add as much submitted content 
to the older site as I would have liked to.  For that reason, the 
content never grew to the level I hoped it would.

An Editor could easily attach content to the menus already in place, 
or add new pages in the menu, and make subpages under those, etc.

The catch to being an editor is knowing what material is truly CoCo 
stuff and what isn't, and what might help or hurt the search engine 
rankings.  Naturally we'd like to stay away from anything that might 
make the site unpopular or terribly annoying.


Editor

An editor can publish, edit, and delete any posts/pages, moderate 
comments, manage categories, manage tags, manage links and upload files/images.


If you are interested in becoming a coco3.com editor, please reply to 
me privately for more details.



-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com


From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Tue Sep 15 18:55:43 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:55:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] GOTO and code maintainability
In-Reply-To: <1590595405.2835731253054919936.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1797620121.2838321253055343101.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "Aaron Banerjee" <spam_proof at verizon.net> wrote:

> Maintaining the stack is most certainly an important issue.  Several 
> years ago, I wrote a program to solve the "Eight Queens" problem on a 
> coco.  I counted on the fact that you could "jump out of" a for/next, 
> alter the counter, and jump back in order to simulate recursion.  That
> program was more of an academic curiosity, and most certainly not  
> intended to promote jumping in and out of FOR loops.  It ran on ECB  
> 1.0, but not on GWBASIC.
> 
> I think the resounding issue of this thread is that even GOTO can be a
> good thing if used appropriately, just as almost anything can be "bad"
> if misused.

Sorry about the late reply (been rebuilding a bathroom while still holding down a full-time dead-end job with a health plan).

But I'm pretty sure that while it speeds up the program, that is technically a "misuse" of GOTO.  One I've used myself more than once, including both in BASIC (Mod One L2 before the Coco was in planning & many later BASICs) and in the Bourne shell and a couple of its descendants (mostly Korn & Bash, one on AIX machines when I'm properly employed, the other at home [& work desk] since 1993).

I am not ashamed about using conditional or even unconditional branch instructions.  BASIC was pretty much my first language unless you count the mechanical binary on the Digicomp One a decade plus before my TRS-80 Mod 1 Level 1.  (A re-creation of the Digicomp One is available at <http://www.mindsontoys.com/kits.htm?dc1_main.htm> a three-bit CPU where real-time is real time.
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 13:46:30 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
Message-ID: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I may be missing something, but I thought calls to subroutines required a rts instruction. In Basic09, there has to be a RETURN statement for any given GOSUB, but not necessarily one-for-one. I can, for example, have a series of subroutine calls, where there are multiple entry points for the subroutine, and one RETURN statement, like:

code
GOSUB 20
more code
GOSUB 30
more code
END

20 code
more code
30 even more code
still more code
RETURN

It will not generate any errors, and as long as the code is written correctly, it will work.

I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there are labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being addressed in the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts instruction anywhere in those fcb's. Can someone explain how this works? An example is:

* The L010A label is addressed twice in the program code.
L010A    fcb   $9D
         fcb   $1E 
         fcb   $04 
* The L010D label is addressed ten times in the program code.
L010D    fcb   $9D
         fcb   $1E 
         fcb   $02 

this series continues until:

L013A    fcb   $9D 
         fcb   $2A *
         fcb   $00 
         fcb   $00 
         fcb   $72 r
         fcb   $02 

In the code, the following statements address these labels:

Both occurrences of the L010A label, and one of the L010D labels, occur in this routine:
L08F8    ldx   $02,s
         lda   #$80
         lbsr  L010A
         bne   L090F
         lbsr  L010D
         beq   L0915
         leax  $03,x
         lda   #$20
         lbsr  L010A
         beq   L0915

I just don't understand.

Wayne



      


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Sep 16 14:08:47 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:08:47 -0400
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090916180847.GB10634@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:46:30AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there
> are labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being
> addressed in the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts
> instruction anywhere in those fcb's. Can someone explain how this
> works? An example is:

Most likely your disassembler has some sort of input that
differentiates code blocks from data blocks, gives a means to assign
meaningful labels names instead of "L010A", etc.  It seems likely that
this file needs to be modified to recognize that L010A is in a section
of code -- probably one that extends at least until the next "fcb $39"
or "rts" in your current disassembly.  Ditto for the other labels in
data sections that are the targets of jump or branch instructions.

Hth!

John

P.S.  BTW, the other possibility is that the section that you think
is code is actually a data section...
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From lothan at newsguy.com  Wed Sep 16 14:45:13 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:45:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45360A6CE30F46F3BD48A348C8874002@Crossfire>

If I'm reading this right, that block of code translates to:

L010A JSR <$1E
 LSR <$9D
 EXG D,Y

What's funny here is that L010D is pointing to the $9D in the LSR 
instruction. If we ignore that, the block at L010D is:

L010D JSR <$1E
 FCB $02 #invalid instruction

And the block at L013A is just as goofy:

L013A JSR <$2A
 NEG <$00
 FCB $72 # invalid instruction
 FCB $02 # invalid instruction

Either way, neither of those two blocks seem to be valid code. This may 
indicate the block at L08F8 isn't decoded correctly.

Can you send me the bin you're looking at it so I can disassemble it and try 
to make heads/tails out of it?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:46 PM
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts

> I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there are 
> labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being addressed in 
> the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts instruction anywhere in 
> those fcb's. Can someone explain how this works? An example is:
>
> * The L010A label is addressed twice in the program code.
> L010A    fcb   $9D
>         fcb   $1E
>         fcb   $04
> * The L010D label is addressed ten times in the program code.
> L010D    fcb   $9D
>         fcb   $1E
>         fcb   $02
>
> this series continues until:
>
> L013A    fcb   $9D
>         fcb   $2A *
>         fcb   $00
>         fcb   $00
>         fcb   $72 r
>         fcb   $02
>
> In the code, the following statements address these labels:
>
> Both occurrences of the L010A label, and one of the L010D labels, occur in 
> this routine:
> L08F8    ldx   $02,s
>         lda   #$80
>         lbsr  L010A
>         bne   L090F
>         lbsr  L010D
>         beq   L0915
>         leax  $03,x
>         lda   #$20
>         lbsr  L010A
>         beq   L0915
>
> I just don't understand.
>
> Wayne
 



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:13:22 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:13:22 -0600
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909161213w635ff407lecb3964638e98d27@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/09, Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I may be missing something, but I thought calls to subroutines required a
> rts instruction. In Basic09, there has to be a RETURN statement for any
> given GOSUB, but not necessarily one-for-one.

---

In 6809 assembly language you will often see a PULS instruction rather
than an RTS to return from a subroutine.  This is often the case when
registers have been preserved by the routine's prolog:

L1  PSHS  B,X
    ...
    PULS  B,X,PC

In some cases the subroutine may pull the return address from the
stack into an index register and then jump to it:

    PULS  X
    ...
    JMP   ,X

Less often, the return address may simply be purged from the stack in
order to eliminate the subroutine "call":

    LEAS  2,S

In a nutshell, there are no hard and fast rules as to how assembly
code must be structured.

Darren


From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Wed Sep 16 16:15:01 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:15:01 -0600
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <45360A6CE30F46F3BD48A348C8874002@Crossfire>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<45360A6CE30F46F3BD48A348C8874002@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <546EC3AD-DD79-44A7-A277-6B54E673334C@sasktel.net>

The Nitros9 project, at least at one time, had a disassembly of  
basic09 that would help you greatly. I think (going on very faint  
memory here) that those may have been jsr function code style calls,  
where the RTS address on the stack would point to the 'non-sensical'  
byte so that the called routine would use that byte as either a  
parameter, or a table lookup offset, or two bytes as a value/address  
of some sort.

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Sep 16, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Lothan <lothan at newsguy.com> wrote:

> If I'm reading this right, that block of code translates to:
>
> L010A JSR <$1E
> LSR <$9D
> EXG D,Y
>
> What's funny here is that L010D is pointing to the $9D in the LSR  
> instruction. If we ignore that, the block at L010D is:
>
> L010D JSR <$1E
> FCB $02 #invalid instruction
>
> And the block at L013A is just as goofy:
>
> L013A JSR <$2A
> NEG <$00
> FCB $72 # invalid instruction
> FCB $02 # invalid instruction
>
> Either way, neither of those two blocks seem to be valid code. This  
> may indicate the block at L08F8 isn't decoded correctly.
>
> Can you send me the bin you're looking at it so I can disassemble it  
> and try to make heads/tails out of it?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:46 PM
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
>
>> I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there  
>> are labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being  
>> addressed in the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts  
>> instruction anywhere in those fcb's. Can someone explain how this  
>> works? An example is:
>>
>> * The L010A label is addressed twice in the program code.
>> L010A    fcb   $9D
>>        fcb   $1E
>>        fcb   $04
>> * The L010D label is addressed ten times in the program code.
>> L010D    fcb   $9D
>>        fcb   $1E
>>        fcb   $02
>>
>> this series continues until:
>>
>> L013A    fcb   $9D
>>        fcb   $2A *
>>        fcb   $00
>>        fcb   $00
>>        fcb   $72 r
>>        fcb   $02
>>
>> In the code, the following statements address these labels:
>>
>> Both occurrences of the L010A label, and one of the L010D labels,  
>> occur in this routine:
>> L08F8    ldx   $02,s
>>        lda   #$80
>>        lbsr  L010A
>>        bne   L090F
>>        lbsr  L010D
>>        beq   L0915
>>        leax  $03,x
>>        lda   #$20
>>        lbsr  L010A
>>        beq   L0915
>>
>> I just don't understand.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From farna at att.net  Wed Sep 16 17:05:20 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:05:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AB15310.8080302@att.net>

Well, you can still get generic PCI sound cards, not sure they would 
work with DOS. Most of the smaller boards computers and ITX boards I've 
seen have sound "cards" built in. 99% are SoundBlaster compatible. I'm 
pretty sure that DOS SoundBlaster drivers would work with them, but that 
might be something to try. I'm thinking something like a small form 
factor Dell GX280 or other workstation would be nice. If it could be run 
under Linux a Sun Blade 100 would be super nice 
(http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/61010)!! Other likely cheap 
"CoCo4" candidates: http://www.pcliquidations.com/item.asp?id=5611 
http://www.electrocomputerwarehouse.com/shopexd.asp?id=32 
http://www.surpluscomputers.com/systems/c-1068/desktop-pcs.html 
http://www.used-pcs.com/ProductCart/pc/advSearchDesk_L.asp?customfield=0&SearchValues=&exact=&iPageSize=100&keyword=P4&priceFrom=0&priceUntil=999999999&idCategory=5&IdSupplier=10&withStock=-1&IDBrand=0&SKU=&order=4 
Plenty P4 based small desktops for under $100 complete with keyboard, 
mouse, 256-512MB RAM, 20-40GB hard drive. Drop to a P3 or Celeron and 
you could go under $100, but is it worth saving $20-25? I've got an old 
P3 here that would be fast enough though, and would probably use it. 
---------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:48:38 -0400 From: mike delyea 
<mdelyea at gmail.com> The thing that concerns me is audio. Does anybody 
even make a sound card that works in DOS anymore. On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 
at 5:02 PM, Frank Swygert <farna at att.net> wrote:

> > Most of us have older PCs that aren't much good for
> > anything, P1/2/3/4 machines that are cheap now because they are outdated.
> > Would still make a fast CC4/hybrid machine. To tell the truth, the whole "PC
> > as CC4" bit could do without the cartridge port altogether, there's nothing
> > that the CoCo could do (except I/O control) through the port that can't be
> > emulated. So unless you wanted to use the port for a relay board or some
> > other type of data aquisition project, it's not necessary. 
-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep 16 17:38:48 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Delphi archives on coco3.com
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090916162309.0611f858@coco3.com>


Here's a treat for you!

http://www.coco3.com/community/category/archives/delphi/


Well, this is a start... almost 1,550 Delphi posts for December 1993 
alone was imported into coco3.com.  This breaks down into 309 
original or lost posts, each having any number of comments.

Although the import was successful, this was only a test run.  The 
messages show the wrong dates (on purpose), and the comments are not 
nesting like I originally wanted them to, as the XML attempted to do.

Instead, all comments under a given post are in the order they were 
posted on Delphi.  This is not hard to follow, as most people either 
quoted a person before them or replied right to the post right before theirs.

I have a bunch of other Delphi posts to run through my converter, but 
unless they are all combined before converting, there's a chance of 
having the occasional broken thread.  Even so, comments to that lost 
post will still be found under that post, which becomes the new 
parent of the thread.  You probably won't even notice, or even care.

I take it that Delphi was very busy if there were this many postings 
for just one month, and I'm not even sure it's for the whole month.

What I need is More Delphi digest files!


How did I do this conversion?  I first have to manually go through 
the files and remove any "more?" prompts or other garbage somebody 
might have ASCII-captured while online.  Any Vt-52/100/ANSI escape 
sequences have to be removed (there was about 20 or so in the Dec 
1993 files, no biggie), then all of the .txt files are merged 
together, all posts separated by a line of -*- then run through my 
converter app.

The converter app crunches like crazy looking for posts with no 
parents, moving those to a new table, then going through all parented 
posts (replies), and inserting them under their parent.  Each message 
in this table contains all the pieces of information like topic, 
date, category, date/time, body, parent, id, etc.

Eventually an XML generator runs through all the posts, stopping at 
each Parent post and then checking for any replies after it, 
outputting the WordPress XML code for each type of message.

It wasn't easy - but the hardest part is OVER.  Now the same utility 
can be used to help bring in the Compuserve archives, or whatever else.

Please Submit these historic archives or point me in the right 
direction to find them?


P.S. the coco3.com blog naviation will be improved greatly, 
especially the left sidebar with the category listing that doesn't 
expand/collapse yet.

Hang in there!
-- 
~ signature section for all e-mails-
~ While I have seen Many annoying taglines over the years, I've never 
really complained, but here's mine:
~ Roger Taylor
~ http://www.americafedup.com



From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep 16 17:53:19 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:53:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB15E4F.25977.E6F369@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 16 Sep 2009 at 10:46, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I may be missing something, but I thought calls to subroutines required a
> rts instruction. In Basic09, there has to be a RETURN statement for any
> given GOSUB, but not necessarily one-for-one. I can, for example, have a
> series of subroutine calls, where there are multiple entry points for the
> subroutine, and one RETURN statement, like:

Wayne 

Both LBSR and BSR stack the PCR only. 

In some instances where you wish to pass variables back to the calling program by 
leaving them on the stack. You can do a stack manipulation by moving the pointer to the 
return address location on the stack and then do a puls(u) pcr instruction. 

james

 


From lost at l-w.ca  Wed Sep 16 20:06:29 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:06:29 -0600
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>

Since L010A and L010D both turn into JSR <$1E with a single byte after 
it, and L013A has JSR <$2A followed by something that's probably data, 
and assuming that L08F8 is not the disassembler out of sync (seems 
unlikely given the sequence of code), here's what I think is happening.

I suspect that at process startup, the direct page is being loaded with 
a couple of subroutines, one starting at $1E and one at $2A. I further 
suspect that those subroutines examine the byte following the JSR call 
and probably removed the return address from the stack. Since I don't 
have the code, I'll contrive an example without all the direct page 
stuff (the mechanics are the same whether it's a JSR to the direct page 
or a BSR, JSR, or LBSR somewhere else):

SUBR	PULS X
	LDA ,X
	* do stuff based on value in A
	RTS

DO1	JSR SUBR
	FCB 1
DO2	JSR SUBR
	FCB 2

MAIN	BSR DO1
	BSR DO2
	* ...


Let's trace it. MAIN calls DO1. This puts the address of the second BSR 
on the stack. DO1 calls SUBR which puts the address of the FCB 1 on the 
stack. The SUBR yanks first return address from the stack and stuffs it 
in X, reads the byte pointed to, does some stuff, and returns...to the 
previous return address. So even though you have a JSR at DO1, the RTS 
in SUBR returns to the "BSR DO2" instruction after MAIN.

Quite frankly, I don't see the point of doing that unless the algorithm 
is using some sort of self-modifying code. Since OS9 doesn't like 
self-modifying code, the only way to do that is to copy the code you 
want to modify into the process's data space and modify it there. Even 
then, it seems like the whole point of that sequence is to obfuscate the 
code.

I've seen similar tricks used with SWI, SWI2, and SWI3. I've even 
written some really ugly code using even stranger tricks.

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I may be missing something, but I thought calls to subroutines required a rts instruction. In Basic09, there has to be a RETURN statement for any given GOSUB, but not necessarily one-for-one. I can, for example, have a series of subroutine calls, where there are multiple entry points for the subroutine, and one RETURN statement, like:
> 
> code
> GOSUB 20
> more code
> GOSUB 30
> more code
> END
> 
> 20 code
> more code
> 30 even more code
> still more code
> RETURN
> 
> It will not generate any errors, and as long as the code is written correctly, it will work.
> 
> I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there are labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being addressed in the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts instruction anywhere in those fcb's. Can someone explain how this works? An example is:
> 
> * The L010A label is addressed twice in the program code.
> L010A    fcb   $9D
>          fcb   $1E 
>          fcb   $04 
> * The L010D label is addressed ten times in the program code.
> L010D    fcb   $9D
>          fcb   $1E 
>          fcb   $02 
> 
> this series continues until:
> 
> L013A    fcb   $9D 
>          fcb   $2A *
>          fcb   $00 
>          fcb   $00 
>          fcb   $72 r
>          fcb   $02 
> 
> In the code, the following statements address these labels:
> 
> Both occurrences of the L010A label, and one of the L010D labels, occur in this routine:
> L08F8    ldx   $02,s
>          lda   #$80
>          lbsr  L010A
>          bne   L090F
>          lbsr  L010D
>          beq   L0915
>          leax  $03,x
>          lda   #$20
>          lbsr  L010A
>          beq   L0915
> 
> I just don't understand.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca



From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Wed Sep 16 21:19:51 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:19:51 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AAFFEC6.9090308@att.net>
References: <4AAFFEC6.9090308@att.net>
Message-ID: <4AB18EB7.3010206@bjork-huffman.net>

I've been watching the exchange on using PC hardware for a hybrid CoCo 4 
and do have a few comments since I?ve been working on this type of 
project for over a year now. (The current state of the project is dead 
or on long term hold.)

The CoCo 4 project was to use low cost NEW PC hardware. With complete 
system boards (with memory) starting at $200.00. Why play around with 
old hardware that does not get the job done?

This is the case with trying to use old PC and running DOS. DOS is only 
16-bit OS with a max of direct memory of 640k or so. With 32-bit Windows 
and Linux you have just under 4 GB of addressing. Lots of room to code 
great stuff for the CoCo 4 system like better graphic and sound.

I had posted a lot of details on the project at CoCo3.com but it was 
wiped out by a hacker. Maybe you could use my work to help your project 
if Roger ever gets those post back.

By the way, the CoCo 4 project also had a USB interface board for 
Joysticks, cassette player, Multi-Pak, floppy disk controller and other 
CoCo hardware devices that could be plugged into PC for use with the 
CoCo 4 software. To run a Game Pak, just plug it into the 40 Pin Slot 
and CoCo 4 boots it. Both the USB I/O board and an ION based PC would 
have fit inside a CoCo 3 case.

Oh yes, there was even a hook-up for the CoCo?s keyboard on the USB board.

So, how fast was the CoCo 4? BASIC programs ran about 5,000 times faster 
in tests. So fast that you write very good arcade types game in BASIC. A 
full Zaxxon arcade type of game written in BASIC would have been a 
breeze on a CoCo 4 system.

I will try to post some of the CoCo 4 data over at CoCo4.com for you to 
use. It may take some time because I'm busy with other projects.

Steve Bjork

### End of Line: ^^^^ TRON Legacy ^^^^ Reboot on 12-17-2010 ###

And Frank Swygert wrote:
> It should be fast enough to send/receive commands for something like a 
> relay board too. I've seen a relay or generic I/O board for a parallel 
> port on a PC before. I'm looking at the maximum use of existing, 
> inexpensive hardware. Even a P4 small form factor computer goes for 
> under $200 with 512MB and a 20-40GB hard drive. Drop to a standard 
> Pentium or a P2/P3 class processor and it's even less -- but running a 
> DOS based CoCo emulator from flash memory or a USB drive would make 
> even a P1 one heck of a fast CoCo! Once that was up and running we 
> could look at expanding the capabilities of the hybrid machine to 
> create more or less a "CoCo4". That is if we can get the source code 
> to one of the DOS emulators, or the author to tweak it some. I'd think 
> it should at least have a CC2/3 mode, even if the advanced 
> capabilities had to be locked out, even if it required rebooting the 
> system. I still like the idea of having it boot up to a simple menu 
> screen that had several options, one being the capability of creating 
> a real CoCo disk (provided an acceptable drive is present) and 
> transferring files. Would be even better if CoCoNet or Drivewire were 
> built into the emulator.
>
> I'd really like to see SECB expanded as well as OS-9 capabilities, 
> only because SECB is so easy to program. The only problem is any 
> expanded functions would only work on the "CC4", but if the "CC4" 
> concept described above could be packaged on a "live cd" like some 
> Linux distributions (oh if it could be done with a small linux instead 
> of DOS!!), or on a USB drive, then there should be no problems. Nitros 
> would just need some new drivers...
>
>
> jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> Frank
>
> EPP interface is used in configuring FPGAs. So being able to send and 
> read data from a ROM cartridge should not be all too tricky. Only 
> thing if I remember correctly EPP/ECP port speed in not all that fast. 
> Still fast enough to move it from the cartridge to a virtual ROM in a PC.
> An interesting idea.
>
> james
>
> On 14 Sep 2009 at 21:44, Frank Swygert wrote:
>
> Okay, I never have been much of a programmer, and really done little 
> more hardware than a few kits and mods to existing hardware, but I've 
> been thinking too much!
>



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep 16 22:57:15 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:57:15 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Thousands of 1994 Delphi messages coming tomorrow
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090916214817.066392a8@coco3.com>


I had no idea Delphi was so active back then.  This was before I even 
used forums or had Windows, for crying out loud.

Luckily I grabbed a free .txt file combiner where you can tag an 
entire folder and out comes a single .txt file.  This is about 4 megs 
for 1994 and I'm going through removing some of the escape sequences 
and ?more? type prompts... some of the files were obviously captured 
into an ASCII buffer; others were raw dumps.

There is a LOT of content waiting to be converted and imported.  The 
search bar at the top of coco3.com will probably be the most popular 
widget on the site, as there is no way on Earth somebody can read all 
this stuff or follow all the threads.

And I haven't even touched the Compuserve or Ocean BBS files yet... 
which is an insanely large number of CoCo posts, all with valuable information.

www.coco3.com
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Thu Sep 17 07:53:50 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:53:50 +1000
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AB00100.7050502@att.net>
References: <4AB00100.7050502@att.net>
Message-ID: <4AB2234E.1040709@iinet.net.au>

Frank Swygert wrote:

> That's pretty slick, but I think what I'm asking for would be cheaper to 
> make. You really just need a way to decode the address bits. Plus it 
> doesn't really need to read a cartridge, it could just act like the port 
> with a wire wrap header for experimenters. My idea is really to do it as 
> cheap as possible -- costs is the main reason the CC in an FPGA on a new 
> board hasn't gone over well. 

You can buy USB-enabled micros for $2 in bulk. Or something like the FTDI 
chips which let you bit-bash over USB...

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From farna at att.net  Thu Sep 17 15:54:54 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:54:54 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AB2940E.7080403@att.net>

I agree with you 100%! I was only suggesting DOS as it could be easily pared down to a minimal system. I did mention that a Linux base (which can also be stripped down!) would be much better. 

I also agree with you on "newish" hardware, not really old stuff! In my last post I listed several P4 machines, complete computers, for under $100. In reality a P3 system would be the lowest I'd shoot for, mainly because of the VIA-C3 mini-ITX boards (the C3 uses a P3 compatible core). That would make an excellent board is one wanted to mount it in a CoCo case, but I wouldn't mess up an original CoCo. 

The USB adapter for the CoCo cartridge port is intriguing! I was thinking the parallel port would reduce the amount of hardware needed at first, but maybe not. With the USB board you're doing a lot more with software, which is probably better and easier, and even a P3 has the processing power. I've never seen the real need/desire for being able to connect all the old CoCo peripherals -- everything except something like an I/O relay board can be emulated or transferred to PC hardware. If you needed a 360K floppy it would be just as easy to mount the physical drive in a PC case, or mod a USB floppy driver to work with 360K. Come to think of it, will modern PC floppy controller chips (integrated I/O chips) even support 360K floppies? 

If the CC4 project is dead for you, would there be a possibility of you turning over the project to the CoCo community? Sounds like you've already had everything running. The USB board shouldn't be a necessity, but may be for playing games with the joysticks -- or can the PC joystick port be used? Someone would have to be in charge of building the hardware, but if the system will work without it that's a start. Maybe stick it up on Source Forge under an open source/GPL license, or upload it to Allen Huffman's CC4 site??? I'm not a programmer, but could serve as a project coordinator. 

------------
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:19:51 -0700
From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net>

I've been watching the exchange on using PC hardware for a hybrid CoCo 4 
and do have a few comments since I?ve been working on this type of 
project for over a year now. (The current state of the project is dead 
or on long term hold.)

The CoCo 4 project was to use low cost NEW PC hardware. With complete 
system boards (with memory) starting at $200.00. Why play around with 
old hardware that does not get the job done?

This is the case with trying to use old PC and running DOS. DOS is only 
16-bit OS with a max of direct memory of 640k or so. With 32-bit Windows 
and Linux you have just under 4 GB of addressing. Lots of room to code 
great stuff for the CoCo 4 system like better graphic and sound.

I had posted a lot of details on the project at CoCo3.com but it was 
wiped out by a hacker. Maybe you could use my work to help your project 
if Roger ever gets those post back.

By the way, the CoCo 4 project also had a USB interface board for 
Joysticks, cassette player, Multi-Pak, floppy disk controller and other 
CoCo hardware devices that could be plugged into PC for use with the 
CoCo 4 software. To run a Game Pak, just plug it into the 40 Pin Slot 
and CoCo 4 boots it. Both the USB I/O board and an ION based PC would 
have fit inside a CoCo 3 case.

Oh yes, there was even a hook-up for the CoCo?s keyboard on the USB board.

So, how fast was the CoCo 4? BASIC programs ran about 5,000 times faster 
in tests. So fast that you write very good arcade types game in BASIC. A 
full Zaxxon arcade type of game written in BASIC would have been a 
breeze on a CoCo 4 system.

I will try to post some of the CoCo 4 data over at CoCo4.com for you to 
use. It may take some time because I'm busy with other projects.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From farna at att.net  Thu Sep 17 15:59:50 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:59:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Thousands of 1994 Delphi messages coming tomorrow
Message-ID: <4AB29536.4050803@att.net>

There were only services back then, Delphi and Compuserve, and of course the private BBS systems. The greater number of users used Delphi and Compuserve, and the Delphi CoCo area was sponsored by Rainbow, so it got LOTS of traffic! I used it from around 92/93 on up through 96 or so, even after the Internet was opened up. I accessed the internet through Delphi for a while so I could keep my old e-mail address. It finally got to where that wasn't worth it, as Delphi slowly died...  Will have to pop over and see if I can find any of my old posts! 

------------
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:57:15 -0500
From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>

I had no idea Delphi was so active back then.  This was before I even 
used forums or had Windows, for crying out loud.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Thu Sep 17 16:12:11 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:12:11 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
In-Reply-To: <4AB2940E.7080403@att.net>
References: <4AB2940E.7080403@att.net>
Message-ID: <4AB2981B.7010503@bjork-huffman.net>

Frank Swygert wrote:
> I agree with you 100%! I was only suggesting DOS as it could be easily 
> pared down to a minimal system. I did mention that a Linux base (which 
> can also be stripped down!) would be much better.
> I also agree with you on "newish" hardware, not really old stuff! In 
> my last post I listed several P4 machines, complete computers, for 
> under $100. In reality a P3 system would be the lowest I'd shoot for, 
> mainly because of the VIA-C3 mini-ITX boards (the C3 uses a P3 
> compatible core). That would make an excellent board is one wanted to 
> mount it in a CoCo case, but I wouldn't mess up an original CoCo.
The idea was to put an Ion (smaller and more powerful than a VIA-C3 
mini-ITX boards) and the I/O board into a CoCo case to replace a dead CoCo.
The I/O board mounts so you can use the old ports in the case for 
plugging things like the joystick or Floppy Disk controller.
>
> The USB adapter for the CoCo cartridge port is intriguing! I was 
> thinking the parallel port would reduce the amount of hardware needed 
> at first, but maybe not. With the USB board you're doing a lot more 
> with software, which is probably better and easier, and even a P3 has 
> the processing power. I've never seen the real need/desire for being 
> able to connect all the old CoCo peripherals -- everything except 
> something like an I/O relay board can be emulated or transferred to PC 
> hardware. If you needed a 360K floppy it would be just as easy to 
> mount the physical drive in a PC case, or mod a USB floppy driver to 
> work with 360K. Come to think of it, will modern PC floppy controller 
> chips (integrated I/O chips) even support 360K floppies?
The I/O talks to the Floppy disk controller so you can read and write to 
the disk in ways the PC can not.
> If the CC4 project is dead for you, would there be a possibility of 
> you turning over the project to the CoCo community? Sounds like you've 
> already had everything running. The USB board shouldn't be a 
> necessity, but may be for playing games with the joysticks -- or can 
> the PC joystick port be used? Someone would have to be in charge of 
> building the hardware, but if the system will work without it that's a 
> start. Maybe stick it up on Source Forge under an open source/GPL 
> license, or upload it to Allen Huffman's CC4 site??? I'm not a 
> programmer, but could serve as a project coordinator.
> ------------
Yes, the USB I/O board not necessity, but for those that want to use old 
hardware with the system will gives you more of a true CoCo.

I don't know about an Allen Huffman's CoCo 4 site, but CoCo4.com is ran 
by me.

Steve Bjork


From farna at att.net  Thu Sep 17 16:15:20 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:15:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AB298D8.1010204@att.net>

Looks like you're basically saying it would be easier to emulate the 
ports through a micro controller connected to a PC USB port like Steve 
did. I was thinking at first that the parallel port could be programmed 
to do basically the same without extra hardware, but then I looked at 
the CoCo and parallel pinouts and discovered that the addressing bits 
would be a problem -- they would take some hardware to decode. For that 
reason the USB port probably is the best solution. The data lines can be 
expanded cheaply though -- 
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/par/pportexp/pportexp.asc The following 
document deals with the original, simple printer port, not current 
EPP/ECP bi-directional ports: 
http://et.nmsu.edu/~etti/fall96/computer/printer/printer.html Maybe 
access to the parallel port for inexpensive I/O would be a good feature 
for a CC4? I do understand that devices that once used the parallel 
port, like some external tape and disk drives, have been superseded by 
USB technology. As I said earlier, I was just thinking of maximum use of 
existing hardware. Even most brand new motherboards still have a 
parallel port, all but the most compact anyway. It can be software 
programmed just like PIA in the original CoCo. ---------- Date: Thu, 17 
Sep 2009 21:53:50 +1000 From: Mark McDougall <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> 
Frank Swygert wrote: > That's pretty slick, but I think what I'm asking 
for would be cheaper to > make. You really just need a way to decode the 
address bits. Plus it > doesn't really need to read a cartridge, it 
could just act like the port > with a wire wrap header for 
experimenters. My idea is really to do it as > cheap as possible -- 
costs is the main reason the CC in an FPGA on a new > board hasn't gone 
over well.


You can buy USB-enabled micros for $2 in bulk. Or something like the FTDI 
chips which let you bit-bash over USB...

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From farna at att.net  Thu Sep 17 16:38:51 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:38:51 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/PC hybrid....
Message-ID: <4AB29E5B.8020304@att.net>

This is a better parallel port reference:
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/parallel_output.html#circuitlinks
A simple circuit to drive 8 LEDs is shown as an example.

Some of the project links no longer work, but here is one of them and 
what I was thinking of for easy I/O:
http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm

And this from a CNC site:
http://www.dakeng.com/relay.htm

After a good bit of reading, this method has been surpassed, but it's 
still mentioned as by far the simplest/easiest way to control things 
like relays. Not much software or hardware needed, no special drivers.


-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 17:49:00 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <629095.74334.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You wrote:
>Quite frankly, I don't see the point of doing that unless the algorithm
is using some sort of self-modifying code. Since OS9 doesn't like
self-modifying code, the only way to do that is to copy the code you
want to modify into the process's data space and modify it there. Even
then, it seems like the whole point of that sequence is to obfuscate
the code.

If obfuscating the code
was the intent, they did a good job.

I can actually follow what you're saying here, so I guess I understand things a little better than I thought I did. I have noticed that there are quite a few places in the code that seems to do something similar. Many labels are used just once in the code, and they point to some series of bytes in the fcb's. Many are not lbsr's though. Using the header file as a guide, I've been able to identify some labels with more sensible names. From that, I can tell where the code deals with things like identifying a token for a keyword, or identifying a prompt (Basic09 has 3, B:, E:, and D:). I've been comparing instructions in the disasm with the actual code in the bin, and so far every instruction code is right on. There are still things I don't get, like why, in some cases, LDD is followed by a single byte, but in other cases it is followed by a byte and an integer. The syntax of the instruction doesn't give me any clues, yet. (Lack of understanding on my part)

Thanks for helping me understand this better, William. :)

Wayne




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:06:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] lbsr and rts

Since L010A and L010D both turn into JSR <$1E with a single byte after it, and L013A has JSR <$2A followed by something that's probably data, and assuming that L08F8 is not the disassembler out of sync (seems unlikely given the sequence of code), here's what I think is happening.

I suspect that at process startup, the direct page is being loaded with a couple of subroutines, one starting at $1E and one at $2A. I further suspect that those subroutines examine the byte following the JSR call and probably removed the return address from the stack. Since I don't have the code, I'll contrive an example without all the direct page stuff (the mechanics are the same whether it's a JSR to the direct page or a BSR, JSR, or LBSR somewhere else):

SUBR    PULS X
    LDA ,X
    * do stuff based on value in A
    RTS

DO1    JSR SUBR
    FCB 1
DO2    JSR SUBR
    FCB 2

MAIN    BSR DO1
    BSR DO2
    * ...


Let's trace it. MAIN calls DO1. This puts the address of the second BSR on the stack. DO1 calls SUBR which puts the address of the FCB 1 on the stack. The SUBR yanks first return address from the stack and stuffs it in X, reads the byte pointed to, does some stuff, and returns...to the previous return address. So even though you have a JSR at DO1, the RTS in SUBR returns to the "BSR DO2" instruction after MAIN.

Quite frankly, I don't see the point of doing that unless the algorithm is using some sort of self-modifying code. Since OS9 doesn't like self-modifying code, the only way to do that is to copy the code you want to modify into the process's data space and modify it there. Even then, it seems like the whole point of that sequence is to obfuscate the code.

I've seen similar tricks used with SWI, SWI2, and SWI3. I've even written some really ugly code using even stranger tricks.

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I may be missing something, but I thought calls to subroutines required a rts instruction. In Basic09, there has to be a RETURN statement for any given GOSUB, but not necessarily one-for-one. I can, for example, have a series of subroutine calls, where there are multiple entry points for the subroutine, and one RETURN statement, like:
> 
> code
> GOSUB 20
> more code
> GOSUB 30
> more code
> END
> 
> 20 code
> more code
> 30 even more code
> still more code
> RETURN
> 
> It will not generate any errors, and as long as the code is written correctly, it will work.
> 
> I have found, in the assembly code generated by disasm, that there are labels in the declarations (all those fcb's) that are being addressed in the code using lbsr op codes. Yet, there is no rts instruction anywhere in those fcb's. Can someone explain how this works? An example is:
> 
> * The L010A label is addressed twice in the program code.
> L010A    fcb   $9D
>          fcb   $1E          fcb   $04 * The L010D label is addressed ten times in the program code.
> L010D    fcb   $9D
>          fcb   $1E          fcb   $02 
> this series continues until:
> 
> L013A    fcb   $9D          fcb   $2A *
>          fcb   $00          fcb   $00          fcb   $72 r
>          fcb   $02 
> In the code, the following statements address these labels:
> 
> Both occurrences of the L010A label, and one of the L010D labels, occur in this routine:
> L08F8    ldx   $02,s
>          lda   #$80
>          lbsr  L010A
>          bne   L090F
>          lbsr  L010D
>          beq   L0915
>          leax  $03,x
>          lda   #$20
>          lbsr  L010A
>          beq   L0915
> 
> I just don't understand.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
>      
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


-- William Astle
lost at l-w.ca


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From lost at l-w.ca  Thu Sep 17 18:40:34 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:40:34 -0600
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <629095.74334.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>
	<629095.74334.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB2BAE2.1060903@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> There are still things I don't get, like why, in some cases, LDD is followed by a single byte, but in other cases it is followed by a byte and an integer. The syntax of the instruction doesn't give me any clues, yet. (Lack of understanding on my part)

This, I think I can clear up for you.

Each instruction (LDD, JSR, LBSR, INCA, etc.) has one or more addressing
modes. An addressing mode describes how the instruction obtains its
operand. There are several modes:

Inherent: this is where the operand is "inherent" to the instruction.
INCA, for instance, includes its operand in the instruction code. RTS is
also "inherent" because it doesn't require an operand.

Direct: (sometimes called "base page" or "direct page") this mode
obtains its operand from memory by taking the value in the DP register
as the upper 8 bits of the address and the byte following the opcode as
the low 8 bits of the address. (So if DP has $14 and the instruction
byte is $11, the address would be $1411.) Direct addressing is often
represented by prefixing the operand with a "<".

Extended: In this mode, the entire 16 bit address of the operand is
specified following the opcode. Extended addressing is often represented
by prefixing the operand with a ">".

Indexed: This is a collection of addressing modes that work off of index
registers (X, Y, U, S, PC). It's quite complex. An indexed instruction
will have between 1 and 3 bytes following the opcode, the first of which
 (the post byte) determines the actual indexed mode. Some modes are 8
bit offsets where the offset follows the "post byte". Some modes are 16
bit offsets where the offset follows the post byte. 8 bit offsets are
often prefixed with "<" and 16 bit offsets are often prefixed with ">".
Note that all indirect addressing modes are indexed. (Indirect is
indicated by enclosing the operand in "[" and "]"). More on this below.

Extended Indirect: This is a special case of indexed addressing that
does not reference an index register. In this case, the opcode will be
followed by 3 bytes - a post byte specifying extended indirect and a 16
bit address.

Immediate: This is where either 8 bits or 16 bits of data follows the
opcode, depending on the size of the register involved. (So 8 bits for
A, B, or CC and 16 bits for D, X, Y, and U.) Immediate mode is always
identified by prefixing the operand with a "#".

Relative: all Bxx and LBxx instructions are relative. The "LBxx"
variations use a 16 bit offset while the non "L" versions use an 8 bit
offset.

Misc: there are two miscelaneous types of instructions. PSH/PUL and
TFR/EXG. Both take a single post byte. The former interprets it as a
bitmap to determine which registers to push or pull. The latter breaks
it into two nibbles to determine the first and second register operands.

Most instructions support multiple modes. Each mode has its own opcode
which is how the CPU tells them apart. Let's pick on LDD. The various
opcodes are:

Immediate mode: $CC
Direct mode: $DC
Indexed mode: $EC
Extended mode: $FC

All of the above will be represented by "LDD" in source code.

Another example would be JSR:

Direct mode: $9D
Indexed mode: $AD
Extended mode: $BD

All of the above will be represented by "JSR" in source code.

Identifying addressing modes is actually easier than it looks. The
following steps may help when examining a source listing. Bail out at
the first match:

1. If the instruction is PSHS, PULS, PSHU, or PULU, it's a register list
2. If the instruction is EXG or TFR, it's a pair of registers
3. If the instruction is LBxx, it is 16 bit relative
4. If the instruction is Bxx, it is 8 bit relative
5. If the operand starts with a "#", it's immediate mode.
6. If the operand contains a ",", it's indexed.
7. If the operand is enclosed in [ and ], it's extended indirect (which
is a subset of indexed. In fact, it's the only indexed mode that does
not contain a comma.)
8. If the operand starts with a "<", it's direct
9. If the operand starts with a ">", it's extended
10. It may be either direct or indirect. You will not likely see this in
output from a disassembler. In this case, the assembler makes a guess
about whether Direct of Extended mode is required based on what it
thinks the DP register is set to. (SETDP is how it learns this. SETDP is
NOT an actual 6809 instruction; it does not actually set the DP
register. The only way to do that is with TFR or EXG.)

There is quite a lot of variation with the indexed modes. A good
reference on the indexed modes of the 6809 will help sort that out.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 21:31:52 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <4AB2BAE2.1060903@l-w.ca>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>
	<629095.74334.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AB2BAE2.1060903@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <272157.10330.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have been reading the Motorola 6809/6809E Programming Manual. It contains everything there is about the instructions and their use. I've been able to learn alot, but you did in one email that repeated re-reading of the manual hasn't done. I can get it! And with this as a reference, I can learn what's going on in the instructions. Thank you so much for explaining it to me, William!  :)

Wayne




________________________________
From: William Astle <lost at l-w.ca>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:40:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] lbsr and rts

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> There are still things I don't get, like why, in some cases, LDD is followed by a single byte, but in other cases it is followed by a byte and an integer. The syntax of the instruction doesn't give me any clues, yet. (Lack of understanding on my part)

This, I think I can clear up for you.

Each instruction (LDD, JSR, LBSR, INCA, etc.) has one or more addressing
modes. An addressing mode describes how the instruction obtains its
operand. There are several modes:

Inherent: this is where the operand is "inherent" to the instruction.
INCA, for instance, includes its operand in the instruction code. RTS is
also "inherent" because it doesn't require an operand.

Direct: (sometimes called "base page" or "direct page") this mode
obtains its operand from memory by taking the value in the DP register
as the upper 8 bits of the address and the byte following the opcode as
the low 8 bits of the address. (So if DP has $14 and the instruction
byte is $11, the address would be $1411.) Direct addressing is often
represented by prefixing the operand with a "<".

Extended: In this mode, the entire 16 bit address of the operand is
specified following the opcode. Extended addressing is often represented
by prefixing the operand with a ">".

Indexed: This is a collection of addressing modes that work off of index
registers (X, Y, U, S, PC). It's quite complex. An indexed instruction
will have between 1 and 3 bytes following the opcode, the first of which
(the post byte) determines the actual indexed mode. Some modes are 8
bit offsets where the offset follows the "post byte". Some modes are 16
bit offsets where the offset follows the post byte. 8 bit offsets are
often prefixed with "<" and 16 bit offsets are often prefixed with ">".
Note that all indirect addressing modes are indexed. (Indirect is
indicated by enclosing the operand in "[" and "]"). More on this below.

Extended Indirect: This is a special case of indexed addressing that
does not reference an index register. In this case, the opcode will be
followed by 3 bytes - a post byte specifying extended indirect and a 16
bit address.

Immediate: This is where either 8 bits or 16 bits of data follows the
opcode, depending on the size of the register involved. (So 8 bits for
A, B, or CC and 16 bits for D, X, Y, and U.) Immediate mode is always
identified by prefixing the operand with a "#".

Relative: all Bxx and LBxx instructions are relative. The "LBxx"
variations use a 16 bit offset while the non "L" versions use an 8 bit
offset.

Misc: there are two miscelaneous types of instructions. PSH/PUL and
TFR/EXG. Both take a single post byte. The former interprets it as a
bitmap to determine which registers to push or pull. The latter breaks
it into two nibbles to determine the first and second register operands.

Most instructions support multiple modes. Each mode has its own opcode
which is how the CPU tells them apart. Let's pick on LDD. The various
opcodes are:

Immediate mode: $CC
Direct mode: $DC
Indexed mode: $EC
Extended mode: $FC

All of the above will be represented by "LDD" in source code.

Another example would be JSR:

Direct mode: $9D
Indexed mode: $AD
Extended mode: $BD

All of the above will be represented by "JSR" in source code.

Identifying addressing modes is actually easier than it looks. The
following steps may help when examining a source listing. Bail out at
the first match:

1. If the instruction is PSHS, PULS, PSHU, or PULU, it's a register list
2. If the instruction is EXG or TFR, it's a pair of registers
3. If the instruction is LBxx, it is 16 bit relative
4. If the instruction is Bxx, it is 8 bit relative
5. If the operand starts with a "#", it's immediate mode.
6. If the operand contains a ",", it's indexed.
7. If the operand is enclosed in [ and ], it's extended indirect (which
is a subset of indexed. In fact, it's the only indexed mode that does
not contain a comma.)
8. If the operand starts with a "<", it's direct
9. If the operand starts with a ">", it's extended
10. It may be either direct or indirect. You will not likely see this in
output from a disassembler. In this case, the assembler makes a guess
about whether Direct of Extended mode is required based on what it
thinks the DP register is set to. (SETDP is how it learns this. SETDP is
NOT an actual 6809 instruction; it does not actually set the DP
register. The only way to do that is with TFR or EXG.)

There is quite a lot of variation with the indexed modes. A good
reference on the indexed modes of the 6809 will help sort that out.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From lost at l-w.ca  Thu Sep 17 21:55:39 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:55:39 -0600
Subject: [Coco] lbsr and rts
In-Reply-To: <272157.10330.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <781600.16684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AB17D85.8040502@l-w.ca>	<629095.74334.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AB2BAE2.1060903@l-w.ca>
	<272157.10330.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB2E89B.9040007@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I have been reading the Motorola 6809/6809E Programming Manual. It contains everything there is about the instructions and their use. I've been able to learn alot, but you did in one email that repeated re-reading of the manual hasn't done. I can get it! And with this as a reference, I can learn what's going on in the instructions. Thank you so much for explaining it to me, William!  :)

Glad I could help.

-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca


From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 17 22:53:30 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:53:30 -0500
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>


I can't read the author's language but here is another cool video 
showing my Deluxe Wireless Pak in use.  It looks like he's using the 
CoCo as a wireless remote terminal to a Linux box or something.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Thu Sep 17 23:06:54 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Thousands of 1994 Delphi messages coming tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <4AB29536.4050803@att.net>
References: <4AB29536.4050803@att.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215422.06061240@coco3.com>

At 02:59 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>There were only services back then, Delphi and Compuserve, and of 
>course the private BBS systems. The greater number of users used 
>Delphi and Compuserve, and the Delphi CoCo area was sponsored by 
>Rainbow, so it got LOTS of traffic! I used it from around 92/93 on 
>up through 96 or so, even after the Internet was opened up. I 
>accessed the internet through Delphi for a while so I could keep my 
>old e-mail address. It finally got to where that wasn't worth it, as 
>Delphi slowly died...  Will have to pop over and see if I can find 
>any of my old posts!


Just check in daily and watch the posts rematerialize.  All I need to 
do is write the parsing routine for any new archive type being 
converted.  The Sort and Export routines work the same on any imported content.
So far I can import mailing list digests like MaltedMedia, and Delphi posts.

I need to find the Princeton CoCo Mailing List archives.  Also, the 
Delphi and CIS archives seem to be just a small fraction.  Was this 
material even preserved by those companies or are the archives the 
work of somebody who was thinking ahead of all of us, or perhaps 
downloading and reading offline to save phone charges?







>------------
>Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:57:15 -0500
>From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
>
>I had no idea Delphi was so active back then.  This was before I 
>even used forums or had Windows, for crying out loud.
>
>--
>Frank Swygert
>Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC)
>For all AMC enthusiasts
>http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
>(free download available!)
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Sep 18 00:05:57 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:05:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200909180005.57738.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 17 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>I can't read the author's language but here is another cool video
>showing my Deluxe Wireless Pak in use.  It looks like he's using the
>CoCo as a wireless remote terminal to a Linux box or something.
>
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
>

Neat Roger.

I'm having pairing problems with mine, can you give me a private ping?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Computers are like air conditioners -- they stop working properly if you open
WINDOWS


From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 18 14:24:56 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:24:56 -0500
Subject: [Coco] hottest CoCo threads of all time!
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090918130239.06095670@coco3.com>

What do you guys think about running some stats on the growing CoCo 
message archives?  One of the built-in stats I have is "Most 
Commented Posts", or most replied-to.

As long as the imported archives retain their thread information, the 
messages will be considered in that type of computation.

So, I just added to the home page.. the  15 Hottest CoCo Threads of 
all Time (pending archive completion).

Right now it's showing one particular topic having a whopping 112 
spawned replies and threads!  So, it's the most popular based on the 
incomplete archives today.

To see what this thread is, look at the bottom half of the home page 
at www.coco3.com


The best part of this is that you can continue posting in any old 
thread or conversation and bring it back to life !

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 18 15:51:48 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:51:48 -0500
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <200909180005.57738.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>
	<200909180005.57738.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090918143914.06194b80@coco3.com>

At 11:05 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>On Thursday 17 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
> >I can't read the author's language but here is another cool video
> >showing my Deluxe Wireless Pak in use.  It looks like he's using the
> >CoCo as a wireless remote terminal to a Linux box or something.
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueowCfiTZ5s
> >
>
>Neat Roger.
>
>I'm having pairing problems with mine, can you give me a private ping?

You're killin' me, man.  :)

Just so others will know, Gene dropped his pak on the floor on day 1 
hard enough to dislodge the plug-in module which is extremely snug, 
and also performed a hack on it.  Even so, I think it's probably just 
one of the chips needing to be reseated, or the BT module.  We'll 
figure this booger out.  Thanks goodness for all the socketed parts, huh?   ;)



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 18 23:01:10 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (vacuumboy1)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:01:10 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Anyone spare a cassette tape cable?
Message-ID: <h91hhm+bpuq@eGroups.com>

Hi all! I FINALLY found a working TRS-80 computer cassette recorder at a thrift shop for 3.00!!! But, It didnt come with a cable to hook it up to the tandy :( So, can anyone spare a cable to me? Thanks! 



From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 19 00:55:51 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:55:51 -0500
Subject: [Coco] mailing list thread reconstruction
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090918234546.061a0a68@coco3.com>


I'm wondering how effective it would be to consider all archive posts 
starting with "re: " to be a reply to the same topic without that 
prefix in it.  If somebody changed the topic a little but it still 
starts with "re: " it could be considered a new thread and the "re: " 
removed so the replies to THAT thread will find their parent as well.

So called hijacked threads should fix themselves by becoming new 
threads since the subject line is used

I've got thousands and thousands of Princeton CoCo mailing list 
messages to import but I can't go to deep until I know the threads 
are reconstructed fair enough.



Hello World
re: Hello World
re: Hello World
re: Hello World

re: Howdy (was Hello World)   no "Howdy (was Hello World)" parent 
found, so make this the parent and rename it

Howdy (was Hello World)
re: Howdy (was Hello World)   a reply to the new thread



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 02:27:50 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:27:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Anyone spare a cassette tape cable?
In-Reply-To: <h91hhm+bpuq@eGroups.com>
References: <h91hhm+bpuq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909182327x6f32b43dxfc6f2dfcb9ea0202@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:01 PM, vacuumboy1 <vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all! I FINALLY found a working TRS-80 computer cassette recorder at a thrift shop for 3.00!!! But, It didnt come with a cable to hook it up to the tandy :( So, can anyone spare a cable to me? Thanks!
>

sorry i don't have a cable.  but thought I'd mention that practically
any cassette player will work with the coco, no need to use the one
from RS.  in fact, the RS one we had was horrible compared to a cheap
sony I used in its place.. long ago..



>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Sat Sep 19 09:20:31 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:20:31 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Anyone spare a cassette tape cable?
In-Reply-To: <h91hhm+bpuq@eGroups.com>
References: <h91hhm+bpuq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4AB4782F.4149.110952E0@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 19 Sep 2009 at 3:01, vacuumboy1 wrote:

> Hi all! I FINALLY found a working TRS-80 computer cassette recorder at a thrift shop for 3.00!!! But, It didnt come with a cable to hook it up to the tandy :( So, can anyone spare a cable to me? Thanks! 

I just found another spare, so email me with an offer. Don't forget 
that shipping is gonna be a few bucks (postage plus box/envelope and 
busfare to the post office adds up)

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From RJRTTY at aol.com  Sat Sep 19 13:52:25 2009
From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:52:25 EDT
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
Message-ID: <ce4.5d52a2d7.37e67459@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/18/2009 3:52:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
operator at coco3.com writes:


>You're killin' me, man.  :)

>Just so others will know,  Gene dropped his pak on the floor on day 1 
>hard enough to dislodge the  plug-in module which is extremely snug, 
>and also performed a hack on  it.  
 
 
 
LOL .  Don't you know Roger that THE final test of any piece  of
equipment is to throw it against the wall and drop kick it
across the room?  :)     Heck, I even harden my  stuff against
radiation so that if world war III breaks out or it needs to
go into orbit it will still function......  ok that's an  exaggeration
but I used to apply a conformal coating until they stop carrying
the stuff at Jameco.    I may have to go to Mouser to get  it.  :(
 
Roy
 


From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 15:40:49 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <ce4.5d52a2d7.37e67459@aol.com>
Message-ID: <14406.5362.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

LOL... That's why I prefer to work with old-fashion Vacuum Tubes when I can. EMP resistant, so you can't knock it out with one of those.

Only bad thing is if We were to try to build a CoCo (any version) with tubes, it would be much much larger than the Eniac, require expensive A/C, be slower than a regular CoCo 1, and be outdone by a simple graphing calculator.

-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


--- On Sat, 9/19/09, RJRTTY at aol.com <RJRTTY at aol.com> wrote:

> From: RJRTTY at aol.com <RJRTTY at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 12:52 PM
> In a message dated 9/18/2009 3:52:08
> P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? 
> operator at coco3.com
> writes:
> 
> 
> >You're killin' me, man.? :)
> 
> >Just so others will know,? Gene dropped his pak on
> the floor on day 1 
> >hard enough to dislodge the? plug-in module which
> is extremely snug, 
> >and also performed a hack on? it.? 
>  
>  
>  
> LOL .? Don't you know Roger that THE final test of any
> piece? of
> equipment is to throw it against the wall and drop kick it
> across the room?? :)? ???Heck, I
> even harden my? stuff against
> radiation so that if world war III breaks out or it needs
> to
> go into orbit it will still function......? ok that's
> an? exaggeration
> but I used to apply a conformal coating until they stop
> carrying
> the stuff at Jameco.? ? I may have to go to
> Mouser to get? it.? :(
>  
> Roy
>  
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


      


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 19 16:39:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:39:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <ce4.5d52a2d7.37e67459@aol.com>
References: <ce4.5d52a2d7.37e67459@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090919153753.0648dd30@coco3.com>

At 12:52 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/18/2009 3:52:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>operator at coco3.com writes:
>
>
> >You're killin' me, man.  :)
>
> >Just so others will know,  Gene dropped his pak on the floor on day 1
> >hard enough to dislodge the  plug-in module which is extremely snug,
> >and also performed a hack on  it.
>
>
>
>LOL .  Don't you know Roger that THE final test of any piece  of
>equipment is to throw it against the wall and drop kick it
>across the room?  :)     Heck, I even harden my  stuff against
>radiation so that if world war III breaks out or it needs to
>go into orbit it will still function......  ok that's an  exaggeration
>but I used to apply a conformal coating until they stop carrying
>the stuff at Jameco.    I may have to go to Mouser to get  it.  :(
>
>Roy


Exactly.  The pak is so durable that it would have to be thrown to 
the floor with very hard force to break it.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Sat Sep 19 19:28:48 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:28:48 +1000
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090918143914.06194b80@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>	<200909180005.57738.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090918143914.06194b80@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4AB56930.2060902@iinet.net.au>

Roger Taylor wrote:

> Thanks goodness for all the socketed parts, huh?   ;)

Acutally, that's one reason _not_ to use sockets...

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Sep 19 20:23:46 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:23:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090919153753.0648dd30@coco3.com>
References: <ce4.5d52a2d7.37e67459@aol.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090919153753.0648dd30@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200909192023.46928.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Saturday 19 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>At 12:52 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 9/18/2009 3:52:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>
>>operator at coco3.com writes:
>> >You're killin' me, man.  :)
>> >
>> >Just so others will know,  Gene dropped his pak on the floor on day 1
>> >hard enough to dislodge the  plug-in module which is extremely snug,
>> >and also performed a hack on  it.
>>
>>LOL .  Don't you know Roger that THE final test of any piece  of
>>equipment is to throw it against the wall and drop kick it
>>across the room?  :)     Heck, I even harden my  stuff against
>>radiation so that if world war III breaks out or it needs to
>>go into orbit it will still function......  ok that's an  exaggeration
>>but I used to apply a conformal coating until they stop carrying
>>the stuff at Jameco.    I may have to go to Mouser to get  it.  :(
>>
>>Roy
>
>Exactly.  The pak is so durable that it would have to be thrown to
>the floor with very hard force to break it.
>
I can testify to that.  I was attempting to pull it out of the end of all 
that bubble-wrap Roger taped around it, and when the tape on the back end 
that I didn't know was stuck to the end of the pack finally came loose, it 
went flying about 3 feet, out and down to a concrete floor in my basement.  
Knocked the eb101 out of its socket, but no other damages, not even a dimple 
on the case corner.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Why does a hearse horse snicker, hauling a lawyer away?
		-- Carl Sandburg


From brjeremy at juno.com  Sat Sep 19 23:32:37 2009
From: brjeremy at juno.com (brjeremy at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:32:37 GMT
Subject: [Coco] OT-A Monkogram from Brother Jeremy
Message-ID: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

My dear friends:
Please excuse the Off Topic Post. I arrived safely back in the UK to resume my duties as Visiting Chaplain at St, Philips Academy. My lads have grown so since I saw them last and it looks like it will be a very rewarding year for me.
As you might note my email address is still the same as I can access my Juno account from Exeter. I will be following the list, but I have a request. If anyone wishes to contact me, please put ATTN: Brother Jeremy as the subject matter. Between the CoCo list and other mailing lists, to say nothing of my 55 young charges and their families, my attention is going in several directions at once, so it may take a bit for me to reply.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYecAeWQ2lzLryJAJhRpHi4R7LIlnCICuXhOjrwoASy7UEWMBc0/


From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 22:43:10 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:43:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Anyone spare a cassette tape cable?
In-Reply-To: <4AB4782F.4149.110952E0@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <678128.49006.qm@web65415.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

5$?

> I just found another spare, so email me with an offer. Don't forget 
that shipping is gonna be a few bucks (postage plus box/envelope and 
busfare to the post office adds up)

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 20 20:04:44 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:04:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] going with the flow
Message-ID: <946106.48830.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am in the process of merging the disasm output of Basic09 and RunB. Both are the versions included on the OS-9 Level 2 Basic09/Config disk. The .os9 file was named Master, but the OS-9 System Disk was not included in the archive.

As I go through them, matching them up where the code agrees, and seeing all the various differences, I can't help but notice that there is a very complex process involved in making one part of one program become a separate program. In many places, there are large sections of Basic09 that are absent in RunB, as you would expect. But these are offset by the changes to the RunB code, either to compensate for a re-addressing of labels or variables, or to replace a complicated routine with a different routine.

Understanding all those differences, and how they affect the operation of the programs, is paramount to understanding how each one is dealing with the data. I have been merging the code for the last four days, and I think it will be at least another four days before I am finished merging. Then I have to go through the merged code, and start looking over the code, where the differences occur, to see if I can find a better match, or determine that the code involved is unique to RunB. After that, I start renaming known labels, and tracking down (hopefully) most of the others that are common to both programs. 

I find this an interesting, and very educational, experience. I'm happy that I can be part of the effort to preserve, and find new uses for, an old 8-bit OS.  :)

Wayne



      


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 20 20:05:00 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:05:00 -0500
Subject: [Coco] wireless remote CoCo
In-Reply-To: <4AB56930.2060902@iinet.net.au>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090917215111.06060e68@coco3.com>
	<200909180005.57738.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090918143914.06194b80@coco3.com>
	<4AB56930.2060902@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090920190340.0615e170@coco3.com>

At 06:28 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>Roger Taylor wrote:
>
>>Thanks goodness for all the socketed parts, huh?   ;)
>
>Acutally, that's one reason _not_ to use sockets...

Yet repairing a board by replacing the part that fried, is 
priceless.  I thought I was in heaven when I bought my first CoCo 2 
and almost everything was socketed.  Pros and cons, sure.





>Regards,
>
>--
>|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
>|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 20 20:28:55 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:28:55 -0500
Subject: [Coco] OT-A Monkogram from Brother Jeremy
In-Reply-To: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
References: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>

At 10:32 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>My dear friends:
>Please excuse the Off Topic Post. I arrived safely back in the UK to 
>resume my duties as Visiting Chaplain at St, Philips Academy. My 
>lads have grown so since I saw them last and it looks like it will 
>be a very rewarding year for me.
>As you might note my email address is still the same as I can access 
>my Juno account from Exeter. I will be following the list, but I 
>have a request. If anyone wishes to contact me, please put ATTN: 
>Brother Jeremy as the subject matter. Between the CoCo list and 
>other mailing lists, to say nothing of my 55 young charges and their 
>families, my attention is going in several directions at once, so it 
>may take a bit for me to reply.
>With all best wishes,
>Brother Jeremy, CSJW


Brother Jeremy, we need the lyrics to your famous song if you have 
time... Lookie here.  :)

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From Torsten at Dittel.info  Mon Sep 21 07:49:47 2009
From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:49:47 +0200
Subject: [Coco] OT-A Monkogram from Brother Jeremy
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>
References: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <h97p8m$ie9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Roger, try again putting "ATTN: Brother Jeremy" as the subject matter... ;-)

Roger Taylor schrieb:
> At 10:32 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>> My dear friends:
>> Please excuse the Off Topic Post. I arrived safely back in the UK to 
>> resume my duties as Visiting Chaplain at St, Philips Academy. My lads 
>> have grown so since I saw them last and it looks like it will be a 
>> very rewarding year for me.
>> As you might note my email address is still the same as I can access 
>> my Juno account from Exeter. I will be following the list, but I have 
>> a request. If anyone wishes to contact me, please put ATTN: Brother 
>> Jeremy as the subject matter. Between the CoCo list and other mailing 
>> lists, to say nothing of my 55 young charges and their families, my 
>> attention is going in several directions at once, so it may take a bit 
>> for me to reply.
>> With all best wishes,
>> Brother Jeremy, CSJW
> 
> 
> Brother Jeremy, we need the lyrics to your famous song if you have 
> time... Lookie here.  :)
> 
> http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/
> 
> 
> 



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 13:55:50 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] ATTN: Brother Jeremy
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>
References: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <285069.40314.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I took the liberty of transcribing the lyrics to the song as I listened to it. If it's OK with Brother Jeremy, I'll post them here and Roger can add them to the site.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:28:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] OT-A Monkogram from Brother Jeremy

At 10:32 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
> My dear friends:
> Please excuse the Off Topic Post. I arrived safely back in the UK to resume my duties as Visiting Chaplain at St, Philips Academy. My lads have grown so since I saw them last and it looks like it will be a very rewarding year for me.
> As you might note my email address is still the same as I can access my Juno account from Exeter. I will be following the list, but I have a request. If anyone wishes to contact me, please put ATTN: Brother Jeremy as the subject matter. Between the CoCo list and other mailing lists, to say nothing of my 55 young charges and their families, my attention is going in several directions at once, so it may take a bit for me to reply.
> With all best wishes,
> Brother Jeremy, CSJW


Brother Jeremy, we need the lyrics to your famous song if you have time... Lookie here.  :)

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/



-- ~ Roger Taylor



--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From cdiman7 at flash.net  Mon Sep 21 14:18:20 2009
From: cdiman7 at flash.net (Karl Sefcik)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:18:20 -0500
Subject: [Coco] ATTN: Brother Jeremy
In-Reply-To: <285069.40314.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20090919.223237.11169.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090920192759.0615e7d8@coco3.com>
	<285069.40314.qm@web53709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB7C36C.6040500@flash.net>

Wayne,

    Oh cool, now we will all be able to sing along at the next Coco-fest.
Karl Sefcik


Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I took the liberty of transcribing the lyrics to the song as I listened to it. If it's OK with Brother Jeremy, I'll post them here and Roger can add them to the site.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:28:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] OT-A Monkogram from Brother Jeremy
> 
> At 10:32 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>> My dear friends:
>> Please excuse the Off Topic Post. I arrived safely back in the UK to resume my duties as Visiting Chaplain at St, Philips Academy. My lads have grown so since I saw them last and it looks like it will be a very rewarding year for me.
>> As you might note my email address is still the same as I can access my Juno account from Exeter. I will be following the list, but I have a request. If anyone wishes to contact me, please put ATTN: Brother Jeremy as the subject matter. Between the CoCo list and other mailing lists, to say nothing of my 55 young charges and their families, my attention is going in several directions at once, so it may take a bit for me to reply.
>> With all best wishes,
>> Brother Jeremy, CSJW
> 
> 
> Brother Jeremy, we need the lyrics to your famous song if you have time... Lookie here.  :)
> 
> http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/238/
> 
> 
> 
> -- ~ Roger Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep 23 20:33:54 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:33:54 -0500
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923192605.060b4e90@coco3.com>

Great News

I just added a presorting routine to my Archive Converter app that 
sorts a database of messages based on their subject lines, where 
"Re:" denotes a Reply.  So far this is working good with the 
Princeton.edu messages.  I just imported January 1998 which was 
originally 431 separate posts, and is now 189 posts with their threads.

To see how this looks, click on 'Princeton' in the left sidebar of 
the site.  Hardly any "Re:" subjects at all.  :)  They were linked to 
their parent and posts as Comments.  Check it out.

For the Princeton CoCo mailing list, I have a 12 months per year from 
1998 to 2004 to go.  This means downloading all sub files per month, 
merging them, running them through my WordPress XML maker, then 
reading them into the site using the admin panel.

P.S. the Archive converter is written in VB.NET and currently works 
with Delphi digests, Maltedmedia and Princeton mailing list digests

www.coco3.com
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From devries.bob at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 21:24:45 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:24:45 +1000
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923192605.060b4e90@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <003601ca3cb5$cee85440$6401a8c0@aceraspire>

Good work, Roger.

Somewhere in my archives, I believe I have earlier Princeton posts. Sadly 
it'll have to wait until my return and re-settlement in Australia before I 
can check that out.

Regards,
Bob Devries
--
Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's 
native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer.

Edsger W.Dijkstra, 18 June 1975

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:33 AM
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads


> Great News
>
> I just added a presorting routine to my Archive Converter app that sorts a 
> database of messages based on their subject lines, where "Re:" denotes a 
> Reply.  So far this is working good with the Princeton.edu messages.  I 
> just imported January 1998 which was originally 431 separate posts, and is 
> now 189 posts with their threads.
>
> To see how this looks, click on 'Princeton' in the left sidebar of the 
> site.  Hardly any "Re:" subjects at all.  :)  They were linked to their 
> parent and posts as Comments.  Check it out.
>
> For the Princeton CoCo mailing list, I have a 12 months per year from 1998 
> to 2004 to go.  This means downloading all sub files per month, merging 
> them, running them through my WordPress XML maker, then reading them into 
> the site using the admin panel.
>
> P.S. the Archive converter is written in VB.NET and currently works with 
> Delphi digests, Maltedmedia and Princeton mailing list digests
>
> www.coco3.com
> -- 
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep 23 21:27:28 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:27:28 -0500
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads
In-Reply-To: <003601ca3cb5$cee85440$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923192605.060b4e90@coco3.com>
	<003601ca3cb5$cee85440$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923202511.06238df0@coco3.com>

At 08:24 PM 9/23/2009, you wrote:
>Good work, Roger.
>
>Somewhere in my archives, I believe I have earlier Princeton posts. 
>Sadly it'll have to wait until my return and re-settlement in 
>Australia before I can check that out.

1998 to 2004 is what I see in the archives served out by the Princeton server.

Glancing through some of the other archives, I think 1985 might be 
the earliest dates for messages.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From devries.bob at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 21:39:07 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:39:07 +1000
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923192605.060b4e90@coco3.com><003601ca3cb5$cee85440$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090923202511.06238df0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <004301ca3cb7$d09b4980$6401a8c0@aceraspire>

I know I was a member of the Princeton list circa 1993-1994, so I may have 
archives of that era.

--
Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's 
native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer.

Edsger W.Dijkstra, 18 June 1975

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] forum/list archive threads


> At 08:24 PM 9/23/2009, you wrote:
>>Good work, Roger.
>>
>>Somewhere in my archives, I believe I have earlier Princeton posts. Sadly 
>>it'll have to wait until my return and re-settlement in Australia before I 
>>can check that out.
>
> 1998 to 2004 is what I see in the archives served out by the Princeton 
> server.
>
> Glancing through some of the other archives, I think 1985 might be the 
> earliest dates for messages.
>
>
> -- 
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Sep 23 22:05:28 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:05:28 -0500
Subject: [Coco] forum/list archive threads
In-Reply-To: <004301ca3cb7$d09b4980$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923192605.060b4e90@coco3.com>
	<003601ca3cb5$cee85440$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090923202511.06238df0@coco3.com>
	<004301ca3cb7$d09b4980$6401a8c0@aceraspire>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090923210409.0626bbd0@coco3.com>

At 08:39 PM 9/23/2009, you wrote:
>I know I was a member of the Princeton list circa 1993-1994, so I 
>may have archives of that era.



I see a lot of names already.  Just key in your name in the search 
bar, keeping in mind that I'm not through importing... still gots lots to go.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Thu Sep 24 19:27:02 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:27:02 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
Message-ID: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>

Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or "pcdos"?
Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
foreign disk formats.

I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.

Thanks in Advance
Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 25 01:02:49 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:02:49 -0500
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>

Steve,

I just imported another chunk of old messages into coco3.com.  This 
time almost 2,000 1986 Delphi messages (and nowhere near done yet), 
and just quickly I tried to Search for '6809er' and came up with all 
kinds of posts from way back then.

You wanted your CoCo Forum posts back.. and I went even further and 
am bringing everybody's stuff back from as far back as when Ronald 
Reagan was bobbing his head at the people.

This is more than a walk down memory lane.  This stuff is from The 
Day, and LOTS of it.  Where do I even begin to start reading.  Simply 
put - there's no way it can all be read.  So use the Search Bar or 
just jump to a favorite Month/Year in CoCo history and maybe you can 
make it through all those with one pot of coffee.

Good stuff, and good times.

here's one post you made with a few replies

http://www.coco3.com/community/1986/06/re-your-page-to-me-re-msg-8906/

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From petrander at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 04:28:08 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Coco] Backup CoCo floppy directly to PC using Drivewire & HDB-DOS?
Message-ID: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I still got a little birth day money to spend, so I was considering what
neat stuff to get for my CoCo. I already intend to get the Bluetooth Pak,
although CoCoNet is not ready yet.

However, regarding my little endeavor discussed earlier on the list (see
below) I was wondering whether DriveWire can solve a current problem for me.


Wanting to back up a lot of diskettes, I was wondering whether I using
DriveWire and HDBDOS simply can use the BACKUP command to directly transfer
a diskette's content to PC.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 Cheers,
Fedor

BTW I love what Roger did with his site...

2009/1/19 Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>

> Fedor Steeman wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Robert. That sounds like some interesting and important
>> information
>> for my little endeavour.
>>
>> Right now I stand with a huge library of hundreds of diskettes that I
>> would
>> like to store on my hard disk as virtual floppies and then make available
>> through the internet. Until now I would backup these (5.25" floppies) to
>> 3.25" floppies using the CoCo and then would read them in on the PC. Of
>> course, that is a bit tedious for so many disks. So it seemed to me I
>> would
>> save a lot of time if I could leave out the CoCo out of the equation and
>> read the floppies in directly on my PC instead. The drive I wanted to use
>> to
>> this end was previously used to read and write these same disks.
>>
>> Are you saying that I can save the trouble and keep on doing the backing
>> up
>> on the CoCo, because success is far from guaranteed with doing it directly
>> on the PC?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fedor
>>
>>
> If you are lucky, you can hook the 5.25" drive to the PC and read the disks
> directly. That will require your PC can work with your 5.25" drive and, as
> others have explained better, the disks were formatted such that the PC can
> read them. See Bill Barnes message replying to Torsten's replying to mine.
>
> Let's say you are lucky. Then the best bet for a neat storage of your disks
> is to use the VCC emulator, which can read real floppies, attached to a .vhd
> hard drive image holding as many multiples of 256 Basic disks as you desire.
> You can just BACKUP the real floppy to an RGBDOS .vhd drive #.
> If you are not lucky, you will need to use an intermediate transfer from
> the Coco to the PC. It could be a 3.5" disk (formatted on the PC as a Coco
> disk) to transfer data or a null modem connection using Ultimaterm and a PC
> terminal program.
> If you are not lucky it will be a lot of work to transfer the files, unless
> you can make use of Roger's future CocoNet or perhaps DriveWire from
> Cloud-9.
>
> As regards the .vhd hard disk image, RGBDOS permits changing the Disk Basic
> offset values stored in the "ROM" on the fly. That means you can easily
> access Mx256 drive #s where M depends on how large you make the .vhd image.
> Of course you can just have more than one .vhd image. The only restriction
> is the offset value must fit in three bytes. The largest offset is thus
> $FFFFFF bytes.
> This technique is also useful with a real Coco3 hard drive system from
> Cloud-9. Use a large IDE drive and you can do the same thing with HDBDOS
>  just by POKEing new offset values into the correct DOS locations.
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From cyberpunk at prtc.net  Fri Sep 25 07:35:07 2009
From: cyberpunk at prtc.net (RJLCyberPunk)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:35:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <7F270C59AD2A4860B0F81982045DD5CF@FANTASYWARE>

Awesome, hopefully Now Steve will feel more encouraged to staty with the 
community as a whole...
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:02 AM
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..


> Steve,
>
> I just imported another chunk of old messages into coco3.com.  This time 
> almost 2,000 1986 Delphi messages (and nowhere near done yet), and just 
> quickly I tried to Search for '6809er' and came up with all kinds of posts 
> from way back then.
>
> You wanted your CoCo Forum posts back.. and I went even further and am 
> bringing everybody's stuff back from as far back as when Ronald Reagan was 
> bobbing his head at the people.
>
> This is more than a walk down memory lane.  This stuff is from The Day, 
> and LOTS of it.  Where do I even begin to start reading.  Simply put - 
> there's no way it can all be read.  So use the Search Bar or just jump to 
> a favorite Month/Year in CoCo history and maybe you can make it through 
> all those with one pot of coffee.
>
> Good stuff, and good times.
>
> here's one post you made with a few replies
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/1986/06/re-your-page-to-me-re-msg-8906/
>
> -- 
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Fri Sep 25 08:45:54 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:45:54 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Backup CoCo floppy directly to PC using Drivewire &
	HDB-DOS?
In-Reply-To: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ABCBB82.6010304@worldnet.att.net>

Fedor Steeman wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I still got a little birth day money to spend, so I was considering what
> neat stuff to get for my CoCo. I already intend to get the Bluetooth Pak,
> although CoCoNet is not ready yet.
> 
> However, regarding my little endeavor discussed earlier on the list (see
> below) I was wondering whether DriveWire can solve a current problem for me.
> 
> 
> Wanting to back up a lot of diskettes, I was wondering whether I using
> DriveWire and HDBDOS simply can use the BACKUP command to directly transfer
> a diskette's content to PC.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
> 
>  Cheers,
> Fedor
> 
> BTW I love what Roger did with his site...
> 
> 2009/1/19 Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
> 
You can do it but it takes a bit of care to get things right.

DriveWire can mount four images on your PC. These images can be either 
virtual floppies or virtual hard drives. HDBDOS for DriveWire expects 
that you are using either virtual hard drives on your PC or floppies on 
your Coco. The trick is to coordinate these two programs so that a real 
floppy will talk to a virtual floppy/hard drive.

  As an example, let's say you have a floppy on the Coco in drive#0 and 
want to make a floppy image on the PC. You shouldn't mount a blank image 
in DriveWire #0 because you can't simultaneously talk to DW3#0 and 
floppy #0.
  So, mount an image in DW3#1 and a floppy in Coco3 #0. Start up a DW3 
version of HDBDOS on the Coco3 and enter DRIVE#1. That will indicate 
that the DW3#1 drive will be used for the virtual drive.
  Now enter DRIVEOFF0, that is DRIVEOFFzero which indicates to HDBDOS 
that drive#0 is a true floppy and virtual drives start at drive#1. You 
can now enter BACKUP0TO1 (i.e. BACKUPzeroTOone) or use the COPY command 
for a single file.

  YOU ARE NOT HOME FREE AT THIS POINT IN THE PROCESS!!! There is a big 
gotcha because HDBDOS thinks you were talking to drivelette#1 on drive#1 
not drivelette#0. That means your virtual disk on the PC has 70 tracks 
and the contents of the floppy went to the second 35 tracks!
  What you really wanted to do is have a 35 track virtual floppy not a 
70 track double disk. If you mounted this hybrid in a Coco emulator, you 
probably could transfer the contents to a normal 35 disk image. But 
there is another approach.
  If you use a RAM disk with HDBDOS for DriveWire, you can use the 
following process. Mount a virtual floppy in DW3#0 and a real floppy in 
drive0. Start a RAM disk on the Coco and backup drive0 to RAM. Switch on 
the DW3#0 with DRIVEON and then backup the RAM disk to DW3#0 drive0. Now 
  DriveWire will think you are talking to the first drivelette on 
drive#0 and you will get a normal 35 track virtual disk.
  This assumes you have extra memory on a Coco3 so that you can run a 
RAM disk and also have software which assumes the RAM disk is say drives 
2&3 while drives 0&1 are real floppies. I don't recall if Cloud-9 
supplies the RAM disk software or not.

The procedure is simpler under OS-9 but you will need to create proper 
descriptors to access DW3. Without special drivers, you will be 
restricted to OS-9 disks which could be a problem.

==================================================
Was this of any help or are you more confused? :)


From jcewy at swbell.net  Fri Sep 25 12:02:56 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:02:56 -0500
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>

Willard Goosey wrote:
> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or "pcdos"?
> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
> foreign disk formats.
>
> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>
> Thanks in Advance
> Willard
>   
Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if a 
generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both RS-DOS 
and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors telling the driver 
which one to use.

JCE



From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Fri Sep 25 12:23:36 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>

There is one, called MSF, that worked withe the sdisk3 driver. Written  
by DP Johnson, I believe.

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Joel Ewy <jcewy at swbell.net> wrote:

> Willard Goosey wrote:
>> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or  
>> "pcdos"?
>> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
>> foreign disk formats.
>>
>> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
>> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>> Willard
>>
> Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if a  
> generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both RS- 
> DOS and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors telling the  
> driver which one to use.
>
> JCE
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 13:18:05 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:18:05 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Backup CoCo floppy directly to PC using Drivewire &
	HDB-DOS?
In-Reply-To: <4ABCBB82.6010304@worldnet.att.net>
References: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ABCBB82.6010304@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909251018k68779693qc66211b7ff72a210@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/25/09, Robert Gault  wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> DriveWire can mount four images on your PC. These images can be either
> virtual floppies or virtual hard drives. HDBDOS for DriveWire expects
> that you are using either virtual hard drives on your PC or floppies on
> your Coco. The trick is to coordinate these two programs so that a real
> floppy will talk to a virtual floppy/hard drive.
>
>   As an example, let's say you have a floppy on the Coco in drive#0 and
> want to make a floppy image on the PC. You shouldn't mount a blank image
> in DriveWire #0 because you can't simultaneously talk to DW3#0 and
> floppy #0.


That is not correct.  There is nothing preventing you from using
DriveWire's slot 0 along with a real floppy disk under HDBDOS.  The
following will work:

DRIVE OFF 0
DRIVE #0
BACKUP 0 TO 1

This will copy the contents of the real floppy disk to the image
mounted in DriveWire slot 0.  However, it will be copied to the second
set of 35 tracks (tracks 35-69) within the disk image.  To move it
down into the lower tracks (0-34) you can do a second Backup
afterwards:

DRIVE OFF
BACKUP 1 TO 0

Now you will have a 70 track disk image containing two identical
copies of the 35 track floppy disk.

Darren


From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 25 14:56:06 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:56:06 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Backup CoCo floppy directly to PC using Drivewire &
 HDB-DOS?
In-Reply-To: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925134702.06199330@coco3.com>

At 03:28 AM 9/25/2009, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I still got a little birth day money to spend, so I was considering what
>neat stuff to get for my CoCo. I already intend to get the Bluetooth Pak,
>although CoCoNet is not ready yet.

I intend to pick back up on CoCoNet and possibly release the DECB ROM 
patch source code.  There's about 4 basic functions there that BASIC 
can tap into for playing around on the web, using remote virtual 
disks, etc.  The PC server source code would be released as well if I 
decide to give the project to the community to finish and enhance 
on.  I could then spend time writing multi-player games and apps that 
use CoCoNet.


>However, regarding my little endeavor discussed earlier on the list (see
>below) I was wondering whether DriveWire can solve a current problem for me.
>
>Wanting to back up a lot of diskettes, I was wondering whether I using
>DriveWire and HDBDOS simply can use the BACKUP command to directly transfer
>a diskette's content to PC.

I use DriveWire 3 when I burn the EPROMs that go in the wireless 
paks.  I have the Disto MPROM .dsk mounted on the PC and walk over to 
the CoCo, type DIR, RUN "MPROM", LOAD->NEWRS232.BIN (the patched 
version of the Tandy Deluxe RS-232 Pak ROM), then (2) to burn it to 
the EPROM that's in the burner pak.  The CoCo to PC serial connection 
is my own cable I make, hooked to a USB to Serial adaptor on the laptop.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From fwp at deepthought.com  Fri Sep 25 15:10:08 2009
From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:10:08 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Backup CoCo floppy directly to PC using Drivewire
	&	HDB-DOS?
In-Reply-To: <4ABCBB82.6010304@worldnet.att.net>
References: <dcc956220909250128u2e815cfh49b7a8e43b66f60@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ABCBB82.6010304@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <20090925191008.GA5022@warlock.deepthought.com>

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:45:54AM -0400, Robert Gault wrote:
> Fedor Steeman wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I still got a little birth day money to spend, so I was considering what
>> neat stuff to get for my CoCo. I already intend to get the Bluetooth Pak,
>> although CoCoNet is not ready yet.
>>
>> However, regarding my little endeavor discussed earlier on the list (see
>> below) I was wondering whether DriveWire can solve a current problem for me.
>>
>>
>> Wanting to back up a lot of diskettes, I was wondering whether I using
>> DriveWire and HDBDOS simply can use the BACKUP command to directly transfer
>> a diskette's content to PC.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
>>
>>  Cheers,
>> Fedor
>>
>> BTW I love what Roger did with his site...
>>
>> 2009/1/19 Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
>>
> You can do it but it takes a bit of care to get things right.
>
> DriveWire can mount four images on your PC. These images can be either  
> virtual floppies or virtual hard drives. HDBDOS for DriveWire expects  
> that you are using either virtual hard drives on your PC or floppies on  
> your Coco. The trick is to coordinate these two programs so that a real  
> floppy will talk to a virtual floppy/hard drive.
>
>  As an example, let's say you have a floppy on the Coco in drive#0 and  
> want to make a floppy image on the PC. You shouldn't mount a blank image  
> in DriveWire #0 because you can't simultaneously talk to DW3#0 and  
> floppy #0.
>  So, mount an image in DW3#1 and a floppy in Coco3 #0. Start up a DW3  
> version of HDBDOS on the Coco3 and enter DRIVE#1. That will indicate  
> that the DW3#1 drive will be used for the virtual drive.
>  Now enter DRIVEOFF0, that is DRIVEOFFzero which indicates to HDBDOS  
> that drive#0 is a true floppy and virtual drives start at drive#1. You  
> can now enter BACKUP0TO1 (i.e. BACKUPzeroTOone) or use the COPY command  
> for a single file.
>
>  YOU ARE NOT HOME FREE AT THIS POINT IN THE PROCESS!!! There is a big  
> gotcha because HDBDOS thinks you were talking to drivelette#1 on drive#1  
> not drivelette#0. That means your virtual disk on the PC has 70 tracks  
> and the contents of the floppy went to the second 35 tracks!
>  What you really wanted to do is have a 35 track virtual floppy not a 70 
> track double disk. If you mounted this hybrid in a Coco emulator, you  
> probably could transfer the contents to a normal 35 disk image. But  
> there is another approach.
>  If you use a RAM disk with HDBDOS for DriveWire, you can use the  
> following process. Mount a virtual floppy in DW3#0 and a real floppy in  
> drive0. Start a RAM disk on the Coco and backup drive0 to RAM. Switch on  
> the DW3#0 with DRIVEON and then backup the RAM disk to DW3#0 drive0. Now  
>  DriveWire will think you are talking to the first drivelette on drive#0 
> and you will get a normal 35 track virtual disk.
>  This assumes you have extra memory on a Coco3 so that you can run a RAM 
> disk and also have software which assumes the RAM disk is say drives 2&3 
> while drives 0&1 are real floppies. I don't recall if Cloud-9 supplies 
> the RAM disk software or not.
>
> The procedure is simpler under OS-9 but you will need to create proper  
> descriptors to access DW3. Without special drivers, you will be  
> restricted to OS-9 disks which could be a problem.
>
> ==================================================
> Was this of any help or are you more confused? :)

All those issues you describe is why I don't use drivewire drives 0-3. It causes
to many conflicts with floppies. There are of course a small handfull of exceptions
but normally the lowest drivewire drive I use is four. This is of course made practical
by drivewire allowing multiple 256 floppy images.

Frank


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Sep 25 16:44:58 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:44:58 -0400
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <200909251644.58164.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 25 September 2009, Joel Ewy wrote:
>Willard Goosey wrote:
>> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or "pcdos"?
>> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
>> foreign disk formats.
>>
>> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
>> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>> Willard
>
>Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if a
>generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both RS-DOS
>and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors telling the driver
>which one to use.
>
>JCE
>
That would be sweet, Joel.  Something along the lines of the linux mc 
(Midnight Commander), a 2 panel thing showing both directories.  And 
something that can do both hard and soft linkages would be nice too.

I always intended to write an os9 version of ln, but miss-laid my round tuit.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

"Paul Lynde to block..."
-- a contestant on "Hollywood Squares"


From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 25 17:54:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:54:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>

Lookie what I found... the first posts ever on the Delphi CoCo 
SIG.  I see Lonnie Falk has a reply in there.

Does anybody remember posting these messages?  I've come across a lot 
of mine that I'd swear were from my evil twin, but not me.  :)

http://www.coco3.com/community/1985/08/greetings-3/


Sadly, a lot of the Delphi messages are plumb missing from the 
archives.  Some of the first posts ever show to be replies to earlier 
posts (that don't exist), so I'm wondering if Delphi did a purge at 
one point or people's messages were deleted when their accounts went 
inactive?  A lot of threads are broken because the original message 
is missing.  This generally calls a thread to be restored with the 
1st reply becoming the new parent, but we'll see how this works as I 
import the rest.
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From flexser at fiu.edu  Fri Sep 25 20:05:37 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:05:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610909251705u10f9f2a6l60dc9cc6d21d058a@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure the missing messages were deleted by SIG staff.  I think I
deleted some of them myself.  Although I was not an "official" staff member,
certain flags were set on my account by Jim Reed (the Rainbow editor that
managed the SIG) that enabled me to delete messages or move them to a
"Manager's" section that only staff could see.  The deleted ones were mostly
very old ones that were purged for housekeeping reasons, since it was judged
that their content would no longer be of any interest.  So, I would say the
historical record is little the worse for lack of these.

You'll notice that the first message has "and hello again, Art Flexser!"
inserted into the the first line of Jim's welcome to new members.  You can
tell this was added after the fact, since it is the only thing in the
message that has lowercase letters.  How this came about is a pretty funny
story.  In reading messages on the SIG, I would frequently type a minus sign
to redisplay the current message.  But I had a tendency to hit the zero key
adjacent to the minus sign occasionally, which had the annoying effect of
sending me back to the first message on the SIG.  I once mentioned to Jim
that I had seen his initial wecome message umpteen times due to this typo
that I tended to make.  The next time I made the typo, I fell over laughing,
because there was Jim's personal greeting to me in the first line of his
years-old welcome message!

Art

On 9/25/09, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
>
> Lookie what I found... the first posts ever on the Delphi CoCo SIG.  I see
> Lonnie Falk has a reply in there.
>
> Does anybody remember posting these messages?  I've come across a lot of
> mine that I'd swear were from my evil twin, but not me.  :)
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/1985/08/greetings-3/
>
>
> Sadly, a lot of the Delphi messages are plumb missing from the archives.
>  Some of the first posts ever show to be replies to earlier posts (that
> don't exist), so I'm wondering if Delphi did a purge at one point or
> people's messages were deleted when their accounts went inactive?  A lot of
> threads are broken because the original message is missing.  This generally
> calls a thread to be restored with the 1st reply becoming the new parent,
> but we'll see how this works as I import the rest.
> --
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From benbleau at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 20:32:13 2009
From: benbleau at gmail.com (Benoit Bleau)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:32:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>

Roger Taylor wrote:
> Lookie what I found... the first posts ever on the Delphi CoCo SIG.  I 
> see Lonnie Falk has a reply in there.
>
> Does anybody remember posting these messages?  I've come across a lot 
> of mine that I'd swear were from my evil twin, but not me.  :)
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/1985/08/greetings-3/

Nice work, Roger. I hope you take good backups of this :)

-Benoit


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Fri Sep 25 21:37:25 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:37:25 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <20090926013725.GA14230@virgo.sdc.org>

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:02:56AM -0500, Joel Ewy wrote:
> Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  

I don't know if I'm that ambitious.  Stand-alone utilities are more my
speed.  ;-)

>I have wondered if a generalized FAT-style file manager could be made
>to handle both RS-DOS and PC-DOS file systems, with the device
>descriptors telling the driver which one to use.

Well, there's a couple of CP/M disk formats I'd like to be able to
read/write easier.... There was also some talk recently on the Model
100 list about reading/writing M100 (with DVI (Disk Video Interface --
not the really weird 3.5" rs-232 drives)) disks.

A generalized FAT manager could be done, sure. You'd probably want it
to call subroutine modules to handle the specifics of each FAT
varient.  There would still be a lot of common code.

But anyway, It has been way too long since I did any real 68xx
assembly, so I'm not anywhere near ready to try to write a kernel
module for (Nitr)OS-9.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From lothan at newsguy.com  Fri Sep 25 22:13:26 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:13:26 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Dynamite docs
Message-ID: <1DFDFA8F14F744B1A3609C0F463E64DA@Crossfire>

Does anyone have or know where I can find the docs for the Dynamite disassembler in electronic format along with the label files that were included on the disk? These should be /d0/defs/sysnames, /d0/defs/dynalbl, /d0/defs/cocolbl, etc. It's been so long since I've used I can't remember the syntax for it.


From operator at coco3.com  Fri Sep 25 23:54:33 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:54:33 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
	<4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925224800.0669fce0@coco3.com>

At 07:32 PM 9/25/2009, you wrote:
>Roger Taylor wrote:
>>Lookie what I found... the first posts ever on the Delphi CoCo 
>>SIG.  I see Lonnie Falk has a reply in there.
>>
>>Does anybody remember posting these messages?  I've come across a 
>>lot of mine that I'd swear were from my evil twin, but not me.  :)
>>
>>http://www.coco3.com/community/1985/08/greetings-3/
>
>Nice work, Roger. I hope you take good backups of this :)
>
>-Benoit


Yep, I've got it covered.  My entire hosting account is backed up 
regularly, and the WordPress export file is saved locally as 
well.  The thing is, the more archives I add, the larger the backup is.  :)

What I'd like to see but probably won't is the old TRS-80 Color 
Computer Home Page articles.  I remember it being a very active site, 
possibly running an early version of PHP-Nuke.  I managed to grab one 
of the links pages from the WayBack machine site, though.  Those 
posts might be lost forever.

I've still got Compuserve stuff to add, too.
I'm probably 5% done at this point, so hang in there.



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From badfrog at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 03:32:06 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:32:06 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925224800.0669fce0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
	<4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090925224800.0669fce0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909260032i48c9c322hd77635f6a1856ee1@mail.gmail.com>

You know, I don't even remember what my Delphi name was...  I have a
few thoughts of my old usernames, but that was a LONG time ago and it
may have even been something different.  My membership was about mid
1991 to 93,  then my college had Internet so I gave it up.

And wasn't it like $20 a month for only a couple of hours?    How far
we've come. :)


On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> At 07:32 PM 9/25/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Roger Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>> Lookie what I found... the first posts ever on the Delphi CoCo SIG. ?I
>>> see Lonnie Falk has a reply in there.
>>>
>>> Does anybody remember posting these messages? ?I've come across a lot of
>>> mine that I'd swear were from my evil twin, but not me. ?:)
>>>
>>> http://www.coco3.com/community/1985/08/greetings-3/
>>
>> Nice work, Roger. I hope you take good backups of this :)
>>
>> -Benoit
>
>
> Yep, I've got it covered. ?My entire hosting account is backed up regularly,
> and the WordPress export file is saved locally as well. ?The thing is, the
> more archives I add, the larger the backup is. ?:)
>
> What I'd like to see but probably won't is the old TRS-80 Color Computer
> Home Page articles. ?I remember it being a very active site, possibly
> running an early version of PHP-Nuke. ?I managed to grab one of the links
> pages from the WayBack machine site, though. ?Those posts might be lost
> forever.
>
> I've still got Compuserve stuff to add, too.
> I'm probably 5% done at this point, so hang in there.
>
>
>
> --
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From zootzoot at cfl.rr.com  Sat Sep 26 11:47:25 2009
From: zootzoot at cfl.rr.com (Stephen Castello)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:47:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0909260032i48c9c322hd77635f6a1856ee1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>
	<4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090925224800.0669fce0@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909260032i48c9c322hd77635f6a1856ee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <uodsb5heqnrsph93g2sabad9jfpv2j0144@4ax.com>

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:32:06 -0500, Sean <badfrog at gmail.com> had a
flock of green cheek conures squawk out:

>You know, I don't even remember what my Delphi name was...  I have a
>few thoughts of my old usernames, but that was a LONG time ago and it
>may have even been something different.  My membership was about mid
>1991 to 93,  then my college had Internet so I gave it up.
>
>And wasn't it like $20 a month for only a couple of hours?    How far
>we've come. :)


$20 for 20 hours a month and they mailed you the bill.

-- 

Stephen

'I never met a piece of chocolate I didn't like.'


From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Sat Sep 26 16:23:46 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:23:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread
In-Reply-To: <uodsb5heqnrsph93g2sabad9jfpv2j0144@4ax.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090925163940.0601c7c8@coco3.com>	<4ABD610D.7050507@gmail.com>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090925224800.0669fce0@coco3.com>	<9efa17da0909260032i48c9c322hd77635f6a1856ee1@mail.gmail.com>
	<uodsb5heqnrsph93g2sabad9jfpv2j0144@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <000f01ca3ee7$404cc160$c0e64420$@com>

I used to pay around $6.50 an hour in 87-90 ...



-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen Castello
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:47 AM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] Delphi CoCo SIG first thread

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:32:06 -0500, Sean <badfrog at gmail.com> had a
flock of green cheek conures squawk out:

>You know, I don't even remember what my Delphi name was...  I have a
>few thoughts of my old usernames, but that was a LONG time ago and it
>may have even been something different.  My membership was about mid
>1991 to 93,  then my college had Internet so I gave it up.
>
>And wasn't it like $20 a month for only a couple of hours?    How far
>we've come. :)


$20 for 20 hours a month and they mailed you the bill.

-- 

Stephen

'I never met a piece of chocolate I didn't like.'

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Sat Sep 26 18:41:51 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:41:51 -0700
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>

Roger,

Don't you think you need to pull the email address off of those messages?
While most of the email address are no longer good, but there are a few 
good email addresses that you feeding to spammers!

Please all those email addresses out of the databases at once!
Also pull the tag lines like "In-Reply-To:" and "Message-ID:" 

Steve Bjork

Roger Taylor wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I just imported another chunk of old messages into coco3.com.  This 
> time almost 2,000 1986 Delphi messages (and nowhere near done yet), 
> and just quickly I tried to Search for '6809er' and came up with all 
> kinds of posts from way back then.
>
> You wanted your CoCo Forum posts back.. and I went even further and am 
> bringing everybody's stuff back from as far back as when Ronald Reagan 
> was bobbing his head at the people.
>
> This is more than a walk down memory lane.  This stuff is from The 
> Day, and LOTS of it.  Where do I even begin to start reading.  Simply 
> put - there's no way it can all be read.  So use the Search Bar or 
> just jump to a favorite Month/Year in CoCo history and maybe you can 
> make it through all those with one pot of coffee.
>
> Good stuff, and good times.
>
> here's one post you made with a few replies
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/1986/06/re-your-page-to-me-re-msg-8906/
>



From jcewy at swbell.net  Sat Sep 26 21:38:11 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <200909251644.58164.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<200909251644.58164.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4ABEC203.9020306@swbell.net>

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 25 September 2009, Joel Ewy wrote:
>   
>> Willard Goosey wrote:
>>     
>>> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or "pcdos"?
>>> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
>>> foreign disk formats.
>>>
>>> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
>>> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>>>
>>> Thanks in Advance
>>> Willard
>>>       
>> Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if a
>> generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both RS-DOS
>> and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors telling the driver
>> which one to use.
>>
>> JCE
>>
>>     
> That would be sweet, Joel.  Something along the lines of the linux mc 
> (Midnight Commander), a 2 panel thing showing both directories.  And 
> something that can do both hard and soft linkages would be nice too.
>
> I always intended to write an os9 version of ln, but miss-laid my round tuit.
>
>   
Of course, I meant "file manager" in the OS-9 sense, not in the sense of 
a userland move-stuff-around utility, but of course the latter would be 
a fine thing as well.  I always thought gshell could have been a whole 
lot better.  And of course an 'mc'-style text-mode thing would be a lot 
easier on memory.  What I had in mind was something along the lines of 
RBF -- call it FBF, the FAT block file manager.  Device descriptors like 
c0 and m0 would specify whether we are talking about CoCo ('RS-DOS') or 
MS-DOS disks.  (256- or 512-byte sectors, what type of FAT, etc.)  Maybe 
the differences are too great to make it practical.

I always hated the RSDOS and PCDOS utilities.

JCE


From jcewy at swbell.net  Sat Sep 26 21:40:06 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:40:06 -0500
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>

L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
> There is one, called MSF, that worked withe the sdisk3 driver. Written 
> by DP Johnson, I believe.
>

Yeah.  Am I imagining it, or did I see the source for that among the 
NitrOS-9 stuff?  I have a vague recollection of trying to assemble and 
use it some time in the past decade, without success.

JCE

> Sent from my iPhone
> L. Curtis Boyle
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Joel Ewy <jcewy at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Willard Goosey wrote:
>>> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or "pcdos"?
>>> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to read
>>> foreign disk formats.
>>>
>>> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
>>> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>>>
>>> Thanks in Advance
>>> Willard
>>>
>> Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if a 
>> generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both 
>> RS-DOS and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors telling 
>> the driver which one to use.
>>
>> JCE
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>



From operator at coco3.com  Sat Sep 26 23:37:51 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:37:51 -0500
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>

At 05:41 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:
>Roger,
>
>Don't you think you need to pull the email address off of those messages?
>While most of the email address are no longer good, but there are a 
>few good email addresses that you feeding to spammers!
>
>Please all those email addresses out of the databases at once!
>Also pull the tag lines like "In-Reply-To:" and "Message-ID:"
>Steve Bjork


It was intentional to take the entire message data and not do away 
with any info I can use later to link those posts back to the 
original author, for example.  The Delphi headers can be searched as well.

Please give me the link to such a message and I'll take a look.  I 
was aware of "somebody at somedomain.com" being used but not any real e-mails.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From lamune at doki-doki.net  Sun Sep 27 00:55:47 2009
From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:55:47 -0700
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4588@concord.lamunet.local>

Roger, how about a global search and replace on every unique email address? That way you don't lose the references but privacy would be preserved.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-
> bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 8:38 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
> 
> At 05:41 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:
> >Roger,
> >
> >Don't you think you need to pull the email address off of those
> messages?
> >While most of the email address are no longer good, but there are a
> >few good email addresses that you feeding to spammers!
> >
> >Please all those email addresses out of the databases at once!
> >Also pull the tag lines like "In-Reply-To:" and "Message-ID:"
> >Steve Bjork
> 
> 
> It was intentional to take the entire message data and not do away
> with any info I can use later to link those posts back to the
> original author, for example.  The Delphi headers can be searched as
> well.
> 
> Please give me the link to such a message and I'll take a look.  I
> was aware of "somebody at somedomain.com" being used but not any real
> e-mails.
> 
> 
> --
> ~ Roger Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Sun Sep 27 01:41:42 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:41:42 -0700
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>

It's too easy for spammers to pull "somebody at somedomain.com" as 
"somebody at somedomain.com" and add it to their spam list.

As for giving out the email address in the first place...

I don't want spammers to get my email address if it is good.  As for bad 
email addresses, what good does it do to give them out anyway?

Including email addresses is just a bad idea any way you look at it.

I find that my client's number way they get their email address on a 
spam list is because some stupid posted it on a public webpage.

Maybe you should try a system like I use on my client's site that never 
posts an email address unless a person is logged in on the site.
(And never use auto create for new accounts.  Also have a person review 
the account before it is active.)

Steve

Roger Taylor wrote:
> It was intentional to take the entire message data and not do away 
> with any info I can use later to link those posts back to the original 
> author, for example.  The Delphi headers can be searched as well.
>
> Please give me the link to such a message and I'll take a look.  I was 
> aware of "somebody at somedomain.com" being used but not any real 
> e-mails.


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 01:47:15 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:47:15 -0500
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4588@concord.lamunet
	.local>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
	<EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4588@concord.lamunet.local>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927004447.06295918@coco3.com>

At 11:55 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:
>Roger, how about a global search and replace on every unique email 
>address? That way you don't lose the references but privacy would be preserved.

I just added a filter to the message builder.. if the lines start 
with In-Reply-To:, References:, or Message-ID:, that line won't be added.

I'll delete the MaltedMedia archives (2003 so far) and reimport the 
filtered posts.

I'll have to check the Princeton posts to see if any e-mail addresses 
are embedded there as well.  Anybody can click on the Princeton 
category and check around and let me know.



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 01:53:27 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:53:27 -0500
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
	<4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927004759.06295ba8@coco3.com>

At 12:41 AM 9/27/2009, you wrote:
>It's too easy for spammers to pull "somebody at somedomain.com" as 
>"somebody at somedomain.com" and add it to their spam list.
>
>As for giving out the email address in the first place...
>
>I don't want spammers to get my email address if it is good.  As for 
>bad email addresses, what good does it do to give them out anyway?
>
>Including email addresses is just a bad idea any way you look at it.
>
>I find that my client's number way they get their email address on a 
>spam list is because some stupid posted it on a public webpage.
>
>Maybe you should try a system like I use on my client's site that 
>never posts an email address unless a person is logged in on the site.
>(And never use auto create for new accounts.  Also have a person 
>review the account before it is active.)
>
>Steve

I've got the login scheme under control.

The e-mail address issue is a matter of filtering unwanted content 
from all the imported archives.  Part of building a database is 
deciding what to discard.  The least I discard the more preserved 
these archives will remain.  As for the "somebody at somedomain.com", 
that's already been in use among us for many years and I doubt that a 
few days of coco3.com postings will make any difference whatsoever, 
so let's be careful not to get all nervous when all these posts have 
been sitting on the web for years being plucked by anybody out 
there.  I am simply presenting the data in another way.

I'll fix it, of course.  Thanks for pointing these issues out to 
me.  I can't sleep good at night knowing everyone else can't either.  :)


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 03:50:55 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:50:55 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Forums repaired and blogified
In-Reply-To: <4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
	<4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927024136.062f1ff0@coco3.com>

Steve,

I'm redoing the maltedmedia archives to filter out the e-mail addresses.

In the meantime.. guess what!

Thanks to Lothan for his excellent work with the two coco3.com CoCo 
Forums that were hosted from 2003-2007 and 2007-2009, all of these 
posts including the "lost" posts are now blogified.

In other words, you're posts are back, Steve!  Search for 6809er and 
not only will you get all your CoCo Forum stuff, but stuff from the 
80's for crying out loud.

Here's the good part:

Most posts have been relinked to the original author's accounts at 
the new coco3.com.  This means you can delete or edit your old 
posts.  For now this is probably limited to the CoCo Forum 
content.  "CoCo Forum" and "CoCo Forums" were of course the coco3.com 
hosted forums.

In the case you can't login under your previous coco3.com username 
and the Lost Password is reporting no e-mail is on file, contact me 
for a lookup or just create a new account and let me know your old 
nickname whenever you have time, and I'll merge it all into your new one.

LOTHAN has red carpet status for pulling off the otherwise impossible 
magic of processing the old SQL files into WordPress XML import files.

I realize the job is hard because I'm having to do it for the old 
mailing list and Delphi/Compuserve archives, but now it's starting to 
get Real Fun!!


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Sun Sep 27 06:56:26 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 04:56:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>

I think we did have it in there, but I don't think any of us actually  
got to it as far as making sure it worked with Nitros.I do know it  
worked well under level 2, abs came with it's own utilities (mscopy,  
msattr, etc) that allows them  to seemlessly work with either OS9 or  
FAT-16 systems.

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Sep 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Joel Ewy <jcewy at swbell.net> wrote:

> L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
>> There is one, called MSF, that worked withe the sdisk3 driver.  
>> Written by DP Johnson, I believe.
>>
>
> Yeah.  Am I imagining it, or did I see the source for that among the  
> NitrOS-9 stuff?  I have a vague recollection of trying to assemble  
> and use it some time in the past decade, without success.
>
> JCE
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> L. Curtis Boyle
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Joel Ewy <jcewy at swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Willard Goosey wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have source for the OS-9 utilities "rsdos" and/or  
>>>> "pcdos"?
>>>> Once I'm done with curses, I want to investigate getting OS-9 to  
>>>> read
>>>> foreign disk formats.
>>>>
>>>> I've got the docs and source for the cc3disk patch to enable the
>>>> ability, but I'd like to see how it actually works.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in Advance
>>>> Willard
>>>>
>>> Are you thinking about a proper file manager?  I have wondered if  
>>> a generalized FAT-style file manager could be made to handle both  
>>> RS-DOS and PC-DOS file systems, with the device descriptors  
>>> telling the driver which one to use.
>>>
>>> JCE
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Sep 27 08:04:39 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:04:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927004447.06295918@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4588@concord.lamunet.local>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090927004447.06295918@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200909270804.39471.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 27 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>At 11:55 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:
>>Roger, how about a global search and replace on every unique email
>>address? That way you don't lose the references but privacy would be
>> preserved.
>
>I just added a filter to the message builder.. if the lines start
>with In-Reply-To:, References:, or Message-ID:, that line won't be added.
>
>I'll delete the MaltedMedia archives (2003 so far) and reimport the
>filtered posts.
>
>I'll have to check the Princeton posts to see if any e-mail addresses
>are embedded there as well.  Anybody can click on the Princeton
>category and check around and let me know.

The delphi, and to a large extent, princeton email addresses would be largely 
dead addresses by now.  People do move around although I've had verizon adsl 
for about 5 years now.  A better deal from somebody else could change that 
yet today though.  Any posts I made to princeton probably came from an older 
dialup account, and delphi's use of handles renders those useless.  So I 
don't have any qualms about the old addresses in those posts.  Heck, back in 
delphi days I shared an account that the CE of the tv station down in Beckley 
had & wasn't using all of, so a lot of those old posts had a WOAY handle on 
them.

So its sorta mochs nichs to me, I run SA here on my incoming stream & 
/dev/null anything over five stars, and that kills a good portion of the 
spam.

Spam is a battle we'll never win, and like advertizing on radio & tv, it 
subsidizes and supports the internet whether we like it or not.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of
mice vs. trackballs... It was very silly.
	-- Matt Welsh


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 12:33:59 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:33:59 -0600
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>
	<4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/26/09, Steve Bjork wrote:
> It's too easy for spammers to pull "somebody at somedomain.com" as
> "somebody at somedomain.com" and add it to their spam list.
>
> As for giving out the email address in the first place...
>
> I don't want spammers to get my email address if it is good.
>
---


Steve,

Are you aware that every message you post to this list goes into a web
archive with your e-mail address in the "somebody at somedomain.com"
format?

Check it out:
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2009-September/045254.html>

Darren


From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Sun Sep 27 12:59:31 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:59:31 -0700
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <200909270804.39471.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>	<EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4588@concord.lamunet.local>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090927004447.06295918@coco3.com>
	<200909270804.39471.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4ABF99F3.1050506@bjork-huffman.net>

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 27 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>
> Spam is a battle we'll never win, and like advertizing on radio & tv, it 
> subsidizes and supports the internet whether we like it or not.
>   
But way give aid to the spammers in the first place?


Just pull off the email addresses!  I does no one any good.



From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 14:01:16 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:01:16 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A little tip jar in the right side bar...
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>


Well pals, perhaps this is the best time to say,

The only thing I can see keeping the site and efforts afloat is "a 
little tip jar in the right sidebar".

All the coco3.com hosting fees are due on Oct 7 and Oct 10.  I've got 
no shame in saying that I can't afford to keep giving at this 
time.  In 2008-2009 I gave more to the cause than I've gotten back, 
mainly by selling wireless paks below cost and investing in the 
materials to make other pak-related gadgets.

If anybody here over 40 with a family tells you that the economy 
hasn't crashed in their neighborhood, then I'd have to say they're 
not being honest, or that they're filthy rich and just haven't 
noticed the real world lately.  Around here it's nothing but budget 
right now, more so than ever before.

To make a long story short, coco3.com goes offline on Oct 7 if there 
is lacking support shown.  I'm trying to get pending orders shipped 
out now while new ones are creeping in like a snail, which means 
items that cost money to fullfill will probably be removed 
soon.  Yes, it's been an actual business for a long time with 
thousands of sales receipts to prove it, but times are tough and 
money isn't moving anymore.  That's life.  So be it.

Anyway, the thing about this tip jar is that you get to enter your 
URL and link text and it gets put in a Link Cloud immediately with 
the larger links going to the higher donators.  They stay there for 1 
full year and show up on every page of the site.  So that's an extra 
part of the widget I chose out of about 20 others like "buy me a 
beer" or "buy me a pizza" and lazy stuff like that.

This should keep the site online, and of course I'll always be there 
regardless of the situation... just gotta have a site to work on!  :)

www.coco3.com

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 27 14:58:17 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:58:17 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A little tip jar in the right side bar...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W3C09AAC35D876EE2CD617E5D70@phx.gbl>


Roger:

Could I donate via paypal, to keep the site up?

Jorge Machin

> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:01:16 -0500
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> From: operator at coco3.com
> Subject: [Coco] A little tip jar in the right side bar...
> 
> 
> Well pals, perhaps this is the best time to say,
> 
> The only thing I can see keeping the site and efforts afloat is "a 
> little tip jar in the right sidebar".
> 
> All the coco3.com hosting fees are due on Oct 7 and Oct 10.  I've got 
> no shame in saying that I can't afford to keep giving at this 
> time.  In 2008-2009 I gave more to the cause than I've gotten back, 
> mainly by selling wireless paks below cost and investing in the 
> materials to make other pak-related gadgets.
> 
> If anybody here over 40 with a family tells you that the economy 
> hasn't crashed in their neighborhood, then I'd have to say they're 
> not being honest, or that they're filthy rich and just haven't 
> noticed the real world lately.  Around here it's nothing but budget 
> right now, more so than ever before.
> 
> To make a long story short, coco3.com goes offline on Oct 7 if there 
> is lacking support shown.  I'm trying to get pending orders shipped 
> out now while new ones are creeping in like a snail, which means 
> items that cost money to fullfill will probably be removed 
> soon.  Yes, it's been an actual business for a long time with 
> thousands of sales receipts to prove it, but times are tough and 
> money isn't moving anymore.  That's life.  So be it.
> 
> Anyway, the thing about this tip jar is that you get to enter your 
> URL and link text and it gets put in a Link Cloud immediately with 
> the larger links going to the higher donators.  They stay there for 1 
> full year and show up on every page of the site.  So that's an extra 
> part of the widget I chose out of about 20 others like "buy me a 
> beer" or "buy me a pizza" and lazy stuff like that.
> 
> This should keep the site online, and of course I'll always be there 
> regardless of the situation... just gotta have a site to work on!  :)
> 
> www.coco3.com
> 
> -- 
> ~ Roger Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx

From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 15:04:35 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:04:35 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A little tip jar in the right side bar...
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W3C09AAC35D876EE2CD617E5D70@phx.gbl>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>
	<SNT109-W3C09AAC35D876EE2CD617E5D70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927140158.05f21e88@coco3.com>

At 01:58 PM 9/27/2009, you wrote:

>Roger:
>
>Could I donate via paypal, to keep the site up?
>
>Jorge Machin


Jorge, yes you can bypass the jar button on the site, but it is 
PayPal based as well.  If you use the button on the site you can 
enter your favorite URL to get posted in the tag cloud automatically 
and for one year.
Either way is a blessing over here.
payment at coco3.com is the address.

Thanks
Roger Taylor


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 15:32:20 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:32:20 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927142529.05f25fe0@coco3.com>


The story behind "Mary and the Butterflies" starts during a 
conversation in the live chat room about a game that Nick Marentes 
was supposedly thinking about writing, called Mary's Mayhem (I 
think), and was to be based on a tornado chasing our own Mary 
Kramer.  I don't know all the details, but time went by with no 
response from anybody on the idea, so I started out to make such a 
game.  I'm pretty sure it was crunch time at work that left me with 
less time to develop the game further but at least I got enough done 
to turn it into some other kind of chase.  And that is, Mary is in a 
yard with tons of butterflies and bees swarming the sky.  She has to 
catch all the butterflies she can without being stung by a bee.  It's 
that simple.  The score rises for each catch, and falls when she 
hides behind a tree.  The game ends when any bee plants a stinger in her rump.

The game has now been renamed and published as Mary and the Bees, 
since people were calling it that anyway.  It has background music, 
joystick or keyboard control, RGB/CMP.

Mary and the Bees - CoCo 3 game - for download to registered coco3.com users

http://www.coco3.com/community/downloads/

You can launch this from the site if you have the VCC CoCo emulator 
installed, ya know.
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Sep 27 16:03:50 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:03:50 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
	<AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 04:56:26AM -0600, L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
> I think we did have it in there, but I don't think any of us actually  
> got to it as far as making sure it worked with Nitros.

Well, you'd have to reverse-engineer sdisk3 and reimplement whatever
functionality it had that cc3disk didn't.

>I do know it  
> worked well under level 2, abs came with it's own utilities (mscopy,  
> msattr, etc) that allows them  to seemlessly work with either OS9 or  
> FAT-16 systems.

Ohhhh, FAT-16 and not just FAT-12?  Someone was thinking of hard-drive
support.  But first you have to parse the DOS partition table....

I've done a bit of research.  The best discussion of the DOS partition
table I found was on wikipedia, search for "MBR".

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Sep 27 16:06:44 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:06:44 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927142529.05f25fe0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927142529.05f25fe0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <20090927200644.GB18996@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 02:32:20PM -0500, Roger Taylor wrote:
> 
> The story behind "Mary and the Butterflies" starts during a 

It's a fun little game.  But I fear the secret insecticon level... ;-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 16:19:18 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:19:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>	<4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
	<5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ABFC8C6.7050507@gmail.com>

Darren A wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Are you aware that every message you post to this list goes into a web
> archive with your e-mail address in the "somebody at somedomain.com"
> format?
>   
I was going to say the exact same thing. Steve, our email addresses are 
already on the web. Google for "6809er at bjork-huffman.net" and you'll 
see. I hope this won't stop you from posting here, though! ;)

Christian




From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Sep 27 17:08:31 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:08:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] To Steve Bjork..
In-Reply-To: <4ABF99F3.1050506@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>
	<200909270804.39471.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4ABF99F3.1050506@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <200909271708.31291.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 27 September 2009, Steve Bjork wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 27 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>>
>> Spam is a battle we'll never win, and like advertizing on radio & tv, it
>> subsidizes and supports the internet whether we like it or not.
>
>But way give aid to the spammers in the first place?
>
>
>Just pull off the email addresses!  I does no one any good.

Steve;

First, I believe its part of an RFC so it _must_ be there or most email 
servers that aren't broken will rightly reject the message as being non-
compliant, and 2nd, how else would I email you if I had a question?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The last vestiges of the old Republic have been swept away.
		-- Governor Tarkin


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Sep 27 17:17:15 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:17:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A little tip jar in the right side bar...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927121215.05ff7f60@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200909271717.16019.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 27 September 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>Well pals, perhaps this is the best time to say,
>
>The only thing I can see keeping the site and efforts afloat is "a
>little tip jar in the right sidebar".
>
>All the coco3.com hosting fees are due on Oct 7 and Oct 10.  I've got
>no shame in saying that I can't afford to keep giving at this
>time.  In 2008-2009 I gave more to the cause than I've gotten back,
>mainly by selling wireless paks below cost and investing in the
>materials to make other pak-related gadgets.
>
>If anybody here over 40 with a family tells you that the economy
>hasn't crashed in their neighborhood, then I'd have to say they're
>not being honest, or that they're filthy rich and just haven't
>noticed the real world lately.  Around here it's nothing but budget
>right now, more so than ever before.
>
>To make a long story short, coco3.com goes offline on Oct 7 if there
>is lacking support shown.  I'm trying to get pending orders shipped
>out now while new ones are creeping in like a snail, which means
>items that cost money to fullfill will probably be removed
>soon.  Yes, it's been an actual business for a long time with
>thousands of sales receipts to prove it, but times are tough and
>money isn't moving anymore.  That's life.  So be it.
>
>Anyway, the thing about this tip jar is that you get to enter your
>URL and link text and it gets put in a Link Cloud immediately with
>the larger links going to the higher donators.  They stay there for 1
>full year and show up on every page of the site.  So that's an extra
>part of the widget I chose out of about 20 others like "buy me a
>beer" or "buy me a pizza" and lazy stuff like that.
>
>This should keep the site online, and of course I'll always be there
>regardless of the situation... just gotta have a site to work on!  :)
>
>www.coco3.com

I just made a small donation to the cause, now lets see the rest of you get 
your name in lights too!

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Breeding rabbits is a hare raising experience.


From cdiman7 at flash.net  Sun Sep 27 17:59:58 2009
From: cdiman7 at flash.net (KARL SEFCIK)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:59:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <130368.87803.qm@web80208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,?Don't know if this will get through, but some of the spam I get is an alpha-numeric generated address, I look in the address box, and see variations before and alphabetically after my addy, and that happens a lot. So my addy cdiman7 gets sandwiched between variations alphabetically before and alphabetically after it. By the time I got to reading these messages in this thread, I had deleted email like that. If the thread keeps going, and I remember, I will save the addressline to paste in a message here.
Karl

--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Darren A <mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Darren A <mechacoco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:33 PM

On 9/26/09, Steve Bjork wrote:
> It's too easy for spammers to pull "somebody at somedomain.com" as
> "somebody at somedomain.com" and add it to their spam list.
>
> As for giving out the email address in the first place...
>
> I don't want spammers to get my email address if it is good.
>
---


Steve,

Are you aware that every message you post to this list goes into a web
archive with your e-mail address in the "somebody at somedomain.com"
format?

Check it out:
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2009-September/045254.html>

Darren

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Sun Sep 27 18:14:39 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:14:39 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
	<AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
	<20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <E57AA569-33CD-47F8-BFB9-E32BC6336781@sasktel.net>

Actually, it may have been FAT-12... can't remember (been years since  
I looked at it).

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Sep 27, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>  
wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 04:56:26AM -0600, L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
>> I think we did have it in there, but I don't think any of us actually
>> got to it as far as making sure it worked with Nitros.
>
> Well, you'd have to reverse-engineer sdisk3 and reimplement whatever
> functionality it had that cc3disk didn't.
>
>> I do know it
>> worked well under level 2, abs came with it's own utilities (mscopy,
>> msattr, etc) that allows them  to seemlessly work with either OS9 or
>> FAT-16 systems.
>
> Ohhhh, FAT-16 and not just FAT-12? Someone was thinking of hard-drive
> support.  But first you have to parse the DOS partition table....
>
> I've done a bit of research.  The best discussion of the DOS partition
> table I found was on wikipedia, search for "MBR".
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Sun Sep 27 18:16:09 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
	<AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
	<20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <410EDC97-8943-4F43-8D7B-0E91EE077231@sasktel.net>

The DOS partition table isn't very hard to parse - 4 entries of 16  
bytes each at the end of the 512 byte sector 0, wasn't it?

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Sep 27, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>  
wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 04:56:26AM -0600, L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
>> I think we did have it in there, but I don't think any of us actually
>> got to it as far as making sure it worked with Nitros.
>
> Well, you'd have to reverse-engineer sdisk3 and reimplement whatever
> functionality it had that cc3disk didn't.
>
>> I do know it
>> worked well under level 2, abs came with it's own utilities (mscopy,
>> msattr, etc) that allows them  to seemlessly work with either OS9 or
>> FAT-16 systems.
>
> Ohhhh, FAT-16 and not just FAT-12? Someone was thinking of hard-drive
> support.  But first you have to parse the DOS partition table....
>
> I've done a bit of research.  The best discussion of the DOS partition
> table I found was on wikipedia, search for "MBR".
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 19:18:07 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:18:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <130368.87803.qm@web80208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
	<130368.87803.qm@web80208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909271618r54acc7cev6002cf005aaa95f@mail.gmail.com>

One "side project" of mine for the past several years has been a small spam
filtering service.   I've had the opportunity to solve the "spam problem"
for just about every kind of client you can imagine.  The sad fact is that
if you've had your email address for more than a couple years, it's very
likely that you'll find it on a list that can be purchased for practically
nothing and is in the hands of any spammer that wants it.

Scraping web pages for email addresses (except mail list archives of course
:( is really not that common any more.  The "good" spammers have much more
effective tactics.  Exploits in popular web sites that use email addresses
for logins (facebook, myspace, amazon, ebay, etc) have given out millions of
addresses.  On top of that, so many companies have inadvertently given out
their customer/marketing lists (and this will likely continue) that at this
point pretty much everyone has spam sent at them.   And in the past year or
so, we've actually seen a sharp rise in plain old dictionary attacks.. I
guess if your botnet is big enough, bandwidth is cheaper than brains.

The good news is that there are excellent tools available that do an amazing
job of stopping spam.  Most of the are open source/free too.  In truth, if
you have a problem with spam, it is your email provider's fault, regardless
of who you've given your address to or how many web sites it can be found
on.  There are many ISPs who simply don't make much effort to use the
technologies available to them.  It's understandable in a way, since they
operate on very slim margins and email is an expensive service to offer.  On
the other hand, there are plenty of free offerings that do a great job, so
maybe there is an element of laziness too.

Knowing that many people do have their email service with these ISPs, I
think it is probably irresponsible to  post these addresses on the coco
website, although sadly it probably is not going to make much difference
since these are old posts and these email addresses are almost certainly
already on spammer lists anyway.

As a side note, if anyone runs their own (personal/nonprofit/coco related)
domain and wants some tips/info on getting rid of spam, I have tons of
information and techniques that I've gathered.  Send me a note off list,
I'll help you practically eliminate this junk no matter how bad it is :)

-Aaron




On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:59 PM, KARL SEFCIK <cdiman7 at flash.net> wrote:

> Hi all, Don't know if this will get through, but some of the spam I get is
> an alpha-numeric generated address, I look in the address box, and see
> variations before and alphabetically after my addy, and that happens a lot.
> So my addy cdiman7 gets sandwiched between variations alphabetically before
> and alphabetically after it. By the time I got to reading these messages in
> this thread, I had deleted email like that. If the thread keeps going, and I
> remember, I will save the addressline to paste in a message here.
> Karl
>
> --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Darren A <mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Darren A <mechacoco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] No email address to stop spammers.
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:33 PM
>
> On 9/26/09, Steve Bjork wrote:
> > It's too easy for spammers to pull "somebody at somedomain.com" as
> > "somebody at somedomain.com" and add it to their spam list.
> >
> > As for giving out the email address in the first place...
> >
> > I don't want spammers to get my email address if it is good.
> >
> ---
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Are you aware that every message you post to this list goes into a web
> archive with your e-mail address in the "somebody at somedomain.com"
> format?
>
> Check it out:
> <http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2009-September/045254.html>
>
> Darren
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Sep 27 19:26:06 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:26:06 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <E57AA569-33CD-47F8-BFB9-E32BC6336781@sasktel.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
	<AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
	<20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
	<E57AA569-33CD-47F8-BFB9-E32BC6336781@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <20090927232606.GA27427@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 04:14:39PM -0600, L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
> Actually, it may have been FAT-12... can't remember (been years since  
> I looked at it).

Ahh. :-( Don't tease me! ;-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Sep 27 19:33:19 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:33:19 -0600
Subject: [Coco] rsdos or pcdos source
In-Reply-To: <410EDC97-8943-4F43-8D7B-0E91EE077231@sasktel.net>
References: <20090924232702.GA11919@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4ABCE9B0.9080800@swbell.net>
	<E7144D3F-4C01-40C0-99A4-92F05B53A36B@sasktel.net>
	<4ABEC276.2030701@swbell.net>
	<AE8E2ED9-AF86-4D94-B6D7-86316C72D0DE@sasktel.net>
	<20090927200350.GA18996@virgo.sdc.org>
	<410EDC97-8943-4F43-8D7B-0E91EE077231@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <20090927233319.GB27427@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 04:16:09PM -0600, L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
> The DOS partition table isn't very hard to parse - 4 entries of 16  
> bytes each at the end of the 512 byte sector 0, wasn't it?

But then there's the extended partition tables, LBA hacks, etc.  The
nice, simple single table went out with DOS 3. 

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Sep 27 22:25:58 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:25:58 -0500
Subject: [Coco] new coco3.com accounts
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927211122.060874a0@coco3.com>

I hate to bug again but the quicker I get this cleared up the happier 
I'll be.  I looked up a lot of old forum accounts from 2003 to 2009 
and figured out which ones were the same owner, but not all of 
them.  Some names have changed, and some e-mails have changed, making 
it impossible to make assumptions for every account.

When I imported both of the old forum databases, each nickname 
associated with the posts was added to the new site's user list, but 
Not their e-mail address.  This means I had to go through each user 
and set the e-mail address for many of them so that the person could 
click on "Forgot Password" if they entered the nickname they thought 
they were, and they'd get that reminder e-mail if it was them.

Anyway, if you are trying to sign up under the new site and it tells 
you that the username is already taken, but you Know that it's your 
username, try clicking Forgot Password and wait for the e-mail to 
arrive, and if the site tells you it can't send the e-mail, it means 
the nickname is reserved for you but hasn't had the e-mail address 
set for it yet.  At this point you'll want to send me a note telling 
me you'd like that nickname back.  I'll use the e-mail address you 
write me through and choose a temporary password for you.  You can 
then click Forgot Password to reclaim your account.  Trust me, it 
sounds like a lot more work than it really is.  It's about a 5 minute 
process at the most if we're both online.  ;)

By the way, you don't need a site account unless you want to write 
posts or comment on others, but there are going to be a few downloads 
here and there that I require a user account in order to access, just 
to be fair.  Other than that, you don't need an account.

All old accounts of course will be void as the old site is disassembled.

Now I'm looking for a photo gallery plug-in for WordPress so each 
user can upload their photos into albums.  I want to port over the 
old CoCo Gallery pictures to retain them.  That's just too many 
valuable pictures to throw away or require somebody to reupload.  I 
insist on recreating the albums in another type of plug-in.  There's 
tons of CoCofest pictures and user albums and I didn't want anybody 
to worry about that content being lost, just as I promised to bring 
the forum posts back *somehow*.  (Again, thanks to Lothan, that was 
done!  Major Appreciation here).

-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From nuxie at aol.com  Mon Sep 28 01:24:42 2009
From: nuxie at aol.com (nuxie at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:24:42 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download
In-Reply-To: <20090927200644.GB18996@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927142529.05f25fe0@coco3.com>
	<20090927200644.GB18996@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <8CC0E131DFC50D8-3D98-19C82@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>


 I love the new changes. Yes the story behind the game with Nick and I at the time. I was going to attend a actual coco fest but couldn't afford to because I had to replace my roof on the house. It was also tornado season in Southern Indiana. So Nick, being his normal halarious self, thought of a game. It would be me trying to outrun tornados on the way to a cocofest. On the way I would rescue coco equipment to deliver to the fest. It was halarious and some ideas even came up for a frogger style version of that saga. Or a pacman version of that story line. After consulting with the allmighty Sockmaster it was determined it would be damn near imppossible to that style of a game. So later on down the road Roger came up with the brilliant Idea of Mary and the Butterflies and brought it to life! Perhaps I can record a soundbite of me screaming now, so that when I get stung in the rear I actually scream. Or a soundbite of me singing the smurfs tune..... la la lalalalala la la la! 

Love the updated version and really hope everyone gives it a try. It is kinda addicting.

Mary Kramer


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download










On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 02:32:20PM -0500, Roger Taylor wrote:
> 
> The story behind "Mary and the Butterflies" starts during a 

It's a fun little game.  But I fear the secret insecticon level... ;-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



 



From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Mon Sep 28 10:15:12 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:15:12 -0700
Subject: [Coco] No email addresses to stop spammers.
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090924235559.062ccd18@coco3.com>	<4ABE98AF.3010706@bjork-huffman.net>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090926223239.0615a288@coco3.com>	<4ABEFB16.4040607@bjork-huffman.net>
	<5d802cd0909270933o4bace931n73295f10e2b0fa84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC0C4F0.2020208@bjork-huffman.net>

Darren A wrote:
Are you aware that every message you post to this list goes into a web 
archive with your e-mail address in the "somebody at somedomain.com" format?

The "somebody at somedomain.com" has been a problem and why email 
address that I use for this list has a spam filter that auto deletes any 
message that is not sent from list server.
This is also way anyone sending an email directly to the address that I 
use here never gets a reply.  There are a few people that I have put on 
the white list, but most get deleted before I see them.

Steve



From Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com  Mon Sep 28 12:24:25 2009
From: Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com (Ries, Rich (NY80))
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:24:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1254146414.88303.coco@maltedmedia.com>
References: <mailman.17.1254146414.88303.coco@maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <13ECAD6262BAAE41908A56E94650E15D0B0423@DE08EV1002.global.ds.honeywell.com>

"On the way I would rescue coco equipment to deliver to the fest. It was
hilarious and some ideas even came up for ... a pacman version of that
story line."

Ugh. I just pictured a little round Mary moving around, chomping down on
CoCo equipment!!! :D

--Rich


From operator at coco3.com  Mon Sep 28 18:32:03 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:32:03 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Mary and the Bees download
In-Reply-To: <8CC0E131DFC50D8-3D98-19C82@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090927142529.05f25fe0@coco3.com>
	<20090927200644.GB18996@virgo.sdc.org>
	<8CC0E131DFC50D8-3D98-19C82@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090928172413.061d6038@coco3.com>

At 12:24 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:

>  I love the new changes. Yes the story behind the game with Nick 
> and I at the time. I was going to attend a actual coco fest but 
> couldn't afford to because I had to replace my roof on the house. 
> It was also tornado season in Southern Indiana. So Nick, being his 
> normal halarious self, thought of a game. It would be me trying to 
> outrun tornados on the way to a cocofest. On the way I would rescue 
> coco equipment to deliver to the fest. It was halarious and some 
> ideas even came up for a frogger style version of that saga. Or a 
> pacman version of that story line. After consulting with the 
> allmighty Sockmaster it was determined it would be damn near 
> imppossible to that style of a game. So later on down the road 
> Roger came up with the brilliant Idea of Mary and the Butterflies 
> and brought it to life! Perhaps I can record a soundbite of me 
> screaming now, so that when I get stung in the rear I actually 
> scream. Or a soundbite of me singing the smurfs tune..... la la 
> lalalalala la la la!
>
>Love the updated version and really hope everyone gives it a try. It 
>is kinda addicting.
>
>Mary Kramer


Mary, I'm not sure if your dad was ever a member of Delphi, 
Compuserve, or the Princeton mailing list, but you should be able to 
find references now by using the search bar on the site.  Search for 
Dale Kramer or Egad it's Elad, etc., but I've removed the maltedmedia 
messages for now while I clean up the e-mail references.  Within the 
next month you should see Compuserve restored as well.

Maybe somebody here can remember his old nickname(s) if he had any.

If you found any old messages posted by your dad, I'd know all of 
this was worth it.


-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 01:36:27 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source
Message-ID: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have finished typing in the source code to DCom 3.5. I have uploaded it to source forge. I'm not certain what is going on with it, though. When I wrote it, it ran, and worked, at least as far as decompiling itself on my CoCo3 was concerned.

It loads and packs without error, but for some reason it reports a 201 error (illegal path number) while running DData2. If I specify no output file (-o option), it doesn't error, but it hangs, as though it's stuck in a loop. I am going to try to figure out what is wrong with it, but I've been working on the new version (called unpack), so I'm not sure how much effort I want to put into fixing DCom.

If anyone wants to look at the code, you can find it on sourceforge.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dcomb09/files/

I'm going to be putting the source for version 3.1 there also. There are major differences between the two versions, and I want to preserve both versions. The source to 3.1 is DCom generated. I used 3.1 to decompile itself a short time ago. The 3.1 source will be on sourceforge in the next week or so.

Wayne


      


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Tue Sep 29 08:57:34 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:57:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source
In-Reply-To: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AC2043E.3000700@worldnet.att.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I have finished typing in the source code to DCom 3.5. I have uploaded it to source forge. I'm not certain what is going on with it, though. When I wrote it, it ran, and worked, at least as far as decompiling itself on my CoCo3 was concerned.
> 
> It loads and packs without error, but for some reason it reports a 201 error (illegal path number) while running DData2. If I specify no output file (-o option), it doesn't error, but it hangs, as though it's stuck in a loop. I am going to try to figure out what is wrong with it, but I've been working on the new version (called unpack), so I'm not sure how much effort I want to put into fixing DCom.
> 
> If anyone wants to look at the code, you can find it on sourceforge.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/dcomb09/files/
> 
> I'm going to be putting the source for version 3.1 there also. There are major differences between the two versions, and I want to preserve both versions. The source to 3.1 is DCom generated. I used 3.1 to decompile itself a short time ago. The 3.1 source will be on sourceforge in the next week or so.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 

Wayne,
I downloaded your code and found that DCP4.B09 is three Basic09 source 
code files. I think that DINSTR is the main module and removed the REM 
but get a parameter error at $B09  IF verbose THEN   when trying to run 
the program.

What is the correct syntax for using the program?


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 29 12:05:07 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:05:07 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
Message-ID: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>

To: everyone
If I offended someone. Sorry

My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
If nothing else make us aware.

I usually look over my van before I get in myself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Warning..!!!!                  Warning..!!!!           Warning..!!!!


  Just last weekend on Friday night we parked in a  public
  parking area. As we drove away I noticed a  sticker on the
  rear window of the car. When I took it  off after I got home,

  it was a receipt for gas.  Luckily my friend told me not to
  stop  as it could be someone waiting for me to get out of  the
  car Then we received this email  yesterday:


                        WARNING  FROM POLICE

  THIS  APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN
  BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR  VEHICLE--
  NEW  WAY TO DO CARJACKINGS (NOT A JOKE)'

  Heads up  everyone! Please, keep this circulating... You  walk
  across the parking lot, unlock your car and get  inside. You
  start the engine and shift into  Reverse.

  When  you look into the rear view mirror to back out of  your
  parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck  to the middle
  of the rear window. So, you shift into  Park, unlock your
  doors, and jump out of your car to  remove that paper (or
  whatever it is) that is  obstructing your view. When you reach
  the back of  your car, that is when the carjackers appear out
  of  nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They  practically
  mow you down as they speed off in your  car.

  And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse  is still in the car.
  So now the carjacker has your  car, your home address, your
  money, and your keys.  Your home and your whole identity are
  now  compromised!

         BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT  IS NOW BEING USED.

If you see a piece of  paper stuck to your back window, just
drive away.  Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you
read  this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends  and
family, especially to women. A purse contains all  kinds of
personal information and identification  documents, and you
certainly do NOT want this to fall  into the wrong hands...


                        Please  keep this going
                        and  tell all your friends

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events
                           The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
                           Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
                           Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
 Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
 who can't read them."--Mark Twain



From badfrog at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 12:09:54 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:09:54 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, when an e-mail includes "send this to everyone you know",
that's the biggest tip-off that it's BS.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> To: everyone
> If I offended someone. Sorry
>
> My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
> If nothing else make us aware.
>
> I usually look over my van before I get in myself.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?Warning..!!!! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Warning..!!!! ? ? ? ? ? Warning..!!!!
>
>
> ?Just last weekend on Friday night we parked in a ?public
> ?parking area. As we drove away I noticed a ?sticker on the
> ?rear window of the car. When I took it ?off after I got home,
>
> ?it was a receipt for gas. ?Luckily my friend told me not to
> ?stop ?as it could be someone waiting for me to get out of ?the
> ?car Then we received this email ?yesterday:
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?WARNING ?FROM POLICE
>
> ?THIS ?APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN
> ?BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR ?VEHICLE--
> ?NEW ?WAY TO DO CARJACKINGS (NOT A JOKE)'
>
> ?Heads up ?everyone! Please, keep this circulating... You ?walk
> ?across the parking lot, unlock your car and get ?inside. You
> ?start the engine and shift into ?Reverse.
>
> ?When ?you look into the rear view mirror to back out of ?your
> ?parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck ?to the middle
> ?of the rear window. So, you shift into ?Park, unlock your
> ?doors, and jump out of your car to ?remove that paper (or
> ?whatever it is) that is ?obstructing your view. When you reach
> ?the back of ?your car, that is when the carjackers appear out
> ?of ?nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They ?practically
> ?mow you down as they speed off in your ?car.
>
> ?And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse ?is still in the car.
> ?So now the carjacker has your ?car, your home address, your
> ?money, and your keys. ?Your home and your whole identity are
> ?now ?compromised!
>
> ? ? ? ? BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT ?IS NOW BEING USED.
>
> If you see a piece of ?paper stuck to your back window, just
> drive away. ?Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you
> read ?this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends ?and
> family, especially to women. A purse contains all ?kinds of
> personal information and identification ?documents, and you
> certainly do NOT want this to fall ?into the wrong hands...
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Please ?keep this going
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and ?tell all your friends
>
> --
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
> ?Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com
>
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
> ?who can't read them."--Mark Twain
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 12:11:37 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:11:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
	<9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909290911w1e698776h4f2a9642edaef638@mail.gmail.com>

Amen.  Always check snopes before forwarding this type of junk.  Better yet,
just never forward it.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Sean <badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, when an e-mail includes "send this to everyone you know",
> that's the biggest tip-off that it's BS.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> > To: everyone
> > If I offended someone. Sorry
> >
> > My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
> > If nothing else make us aware.
> >
> > I usually look over my van before I get in myself.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Warning..!!!!                  Warning..!!!!           Warning..!!!!
> >
> >
> >  Just last weekend on Friday night we parked in a  public
> >  parking area. As we drove away I noticed a  sticker on the
> >  rear window of the car. When I took it  off after I got home,
> >
> >  it was a receipt for gas.  Luckily my friend told me not to
> >  stop  as it could be someone waiting for me to get out of  the
> >  car Then we received this email  yesterday:
> >
> >
> >                        WARNING  FROM POLICE
> >
> >  THIS  APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN
> >  BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR  VEHICLE--
> >  NEW  WAY TO DO CARJACKINGS (NOT A JOKE)'
> >
> >  Heads up  everyone! Please, keep this circulating... You  walk
> >  across the parking lot, unlock your car and get  inside. You
> >  start the engine and shift into  Reverse.
> >
> >  When  you look into the rear view mirror to back out of  your
> >  parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck  to the middle
> >  of the rear window. So, you shift into  Park, unlock your
> >  doors, and jump out of your car to  remove that paper (or
> >  whatever it is) that is  obstructing your view. When you reach
> >  the back of  your car, that is when the carjackers appear out
> >  of  nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They  practically
> >  mow you down as they speed off in your  car.
> >
> >  And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse  is still in the car.
> >  So now the carjacker has your  car, your home address, your
> >  money, and your keys.  Your home and your whole identity are
> >  now  compromised!
> >
> >         BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT  IS NOW BEING USED.
> >
> > If you see a piece of  paper stuck to your back window, just
> > drive away.  Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you
> > read  this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends  and
> > family, especially to women. A purse contains all  kinds of
> > personal information and identification  documents, and you
> > certainly do NOT want this to fall  into the wrong hands...
> >
> >
> >                        Please  keep this going
> >                        and  tell all your friends
> >
> > --
> > Brian Goers
> > Glenside Computer Club
> > Vice President of Special Events
> >                           The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
> >                           Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
> >                           Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
> >  Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com
> >
> > "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
> >  who can't read them."--Mark Twain
> >
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 29 12:20:09 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:20:09 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
	<9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC233B9.9060507@sbcglobal.net>

Sean wrote:
> Sorry, when an e-mail includes "send this to everyone you know",
> that's the biggest tip-off that it's BS.
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp
> 
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> To: everyone
>> If I offended someone. Sorry
>>
>> My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
>> If nothing else make us aware.
>
OK. I didn't know about snopes.com before. Thanks.
Funny, the way that driver wrote it is the same as the article.

Thanks again.

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events
                           The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
                           Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
                           Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
 Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
 who can't read them."--Mark Twain



From flexser at fiu.edu  Tue Sep 29 12:22:59 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:22:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610909290922k14efdaf0l611cfbd8f9b06d6c@mail.gmail.com>

BEWARE!!!!   The truth contained in emailed warnings tends to be inversely
proportional to to the number of capital letters, exclamation points, and
requests that you forward the warning to everybody you know.  Bonus
bogusness points awarded for lack of identification of the original
source!!!

BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Art

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> To: everyone
> If I offended someone. Sorry
>
> My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
> If nothing else make us aware.
>
> I usually look over my van before I get in myself.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Warning..!!!!                  Warning..!!!!           Warning..!!!!
>
>
>  Just last weekend on Friday night we parked in a  public
>  parking area. As we drove away I noticed a  sticker on the
>  rear window of the car. When I took it  off after I got home,
>
>  it was a receipt for gas.  Luckily my friend told me not to
>  stop  as it could be someone waiting for me to get out of  the
>  car Then we received this email  yesterday:
>
>
>                        WARNING  FROM POLICE
>
>  THIS  APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN
>  BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR  VEHICLE--
>  NEW  WAY TO DO CARJACKINGS (NOT A JOKE)'
>
>  Heads up  everyone! Please, keep this circulating... You  walk
>  across the parking lot, unlock your car and get  inside. You
>  start the engine and shift into  Reverse.
>
>  When  you look into the rear view mirror to back out of  your
>  parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck  to the middle
>  of the rear window. So, you shift into  Park, unlock your
>  doors, and jump out of your car to  remove that paper (or
>  whatever it is) that is  obstructing your view. When you reach
>  the back of  your car, that is when the carjackers appear out
>  of  nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They  practically
>  mow you down as they speed off in your  car.
>
>  And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse  is still in the car.
>  So now the carjacker has your  car, your home address, your
>  money, and your keys.  Your home and your whole identity are
>  now  compromised!
>
>         BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT  IS NOW BEING USED.
>
> If you see a piece of  paper stuck to your back window, just
> drive away.  Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you
> read  this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends  and
> family, especially to women. A purse contains all  kinds of
> personal information and identification  documents, and you
> certainly do NOT want this to fall  into the wrong hands...
>
>
>                        Please  keep this going
>                        and  tell all your friends
>
> --
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
>                           The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
>                           Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
>                           Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
>  Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com <http://glensideccc.com/>
>
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
>  who can't read them."--Mark Twain
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From badfrog at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 12:09:31 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:09:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909290909x7eb84215r289b314b289606c3@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, when an e-mail includes "send this to everyone you know",
that's the biggest tip-off that it's BS.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> To: everyone
> If I offended someone. Sorry
>
> My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
> If nothing else make us aware.
>
> I usually look over my van before I get in myself.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?Warning..!!!! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Warning..!!!! ? ? ? ? ? Warning..!!!!
>
>
> ?Just last weekend on Friday night we parked in a ?public
> ?parking area. As we drove away I noticed a ?sticker on the
> ?rear window of the car. When I took it ?off after I got home,
>
> ?it was a receipt for gas. ?Luckily my friend told me not to
> ?stop ?as it could be someone waiting for me to get out of ?the
> ?car Then we received this email ?yesterday:
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?WARNING ?FROM POLICE
>
> ?THIS ?APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN
> ?BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR ?VEHICLE--
> ?NEW ?WAY TO DO CARJACKINGS (NOT A JOKE)'
>
> ?Heads up ?everyone! Please, keep this circulating... You ?walk
> ?across the parking lot, unlock your car and get ?inside. You
> ?start the engine and shift into ?Reverse.
>
> ?When ?you look into the rear view mirror to back out of ?your
> ?parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck ?to the middle
> ?of the rear window. So, you shift into ?Park, unlock your
> ?doors, and jump out of your car to ?remove that paper (or
> ?whatever it is) that is ?obstructing your view. When you reach
> ?the back of ?your car, that is when the carjackers appear out
> ?of ?nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They ?practically
> ?mow you down as they speed off in your ?car.
>
> ?And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse ?is still in the car.
> ?So now the carjacker has your ?car, your home address, your
> ?money, and your keys. ?Your home and your whole identity are
> ?now ?compromised!
>
> ? ? ? ? BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT ?IS NOW BEING USED.
>
> If you see a piece of ?paper stuck to your back window, just
> drive away. ?Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you
> read ?this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends ?and
> family, especially to women. A purse contains all ?kinds of
> personal information and identification ?documents, and you
> certainly do NOT want this to fall ?into the wrong hands...
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Please ?keep this going
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and ?tell all your friends
>
> --
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
> ?Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com
>
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
> ?who can't read them."--Mark Twain
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 12:50:13 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:50:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off Topic. But for your safety.
In-Reply-To: <4AC233B9.9060507@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4AC23033.7020508@sbcglobal.net>
	<9efa17da0909290909m6f733e32k74cc225f8dd11ae6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC233B9.9060507@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640909290950k3fcb70a9vafc366ace1e9f00a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Sean wrote:
> > Sorry, when an e-mail includes "send this to everyone you know",
> > that's the biggest tip-off that it's BS.
> >
> > http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> To: everyone
> >> If I offended someone. Sorry
> >>
> >> My sister received this from a truck driver and I wanted forward it.
> >> If nothing else make us aware.
> >
> OK. I didn't know about snopes.com before. Thanks.
> Funny, the way that driver wrote it is the same as the article.
>

The similarities are there because the driver did *not* write it.
this email has been circulating on the internet since at least Feb
2004.  The slight differences in some parts of the text are due to
"evolution" as people add their touch before forwarding it on.  Over
several generations, some of these prank emails can become quite
different from the original.  Sort of like the game of telephone if
you played that as a kid.


> Thanks again.
>
> --
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The 19th Annual ?LAST? Chicago CoCoFEST!
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Will be held May 15 &16, 2010
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Holiday Inn & Suites in Elgin.
> ?Glenside URL - http://GlensideCCC.com
>
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
> ?who can't read them."--Mark Twain
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 13:38:22 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source
In-Reply-To: <4AC2043E.3000700@worldnet.att.net>
References: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AC2043E.3000700@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <164942.15411.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Each "part" file is merged procedures. The list is:

DCom - DCom (main procedure) and DCIA
DCP1 - DData1, DData2, DComplex and DVars
DCP2 - DMatch, DSort, ZSort, CSort, VSort and DTypes
DCP3 - DLNums, RSort, LSort and DPrint
DCP4 - DInstr, DRPN and DHex

You should not remove the REM statements as a whole. If you want to de-compile DCom, simply leave the REM statement as it is. If you remove the REM keyword and pack the procedures, DCom will not decompile itself.

REM line:="@8y at aa"

is changed to"

line:="@8y at aa"
to prevent DCom from self-decompile.

The syntax for running DCom is:

dcom pathname opts

pathname is any valid path or filename, such as:

myFile
/d1/mydir/myfile

opts are:

-o is suppress output file and print to stdout only.
-v is dupe output to output file and stdout
-, ?, -?, or no params displays the built-in help

The sort routines were my first attempt at trying to create a fast sorting algorythm. With so many different things to sort, I ended up needing different sorts. I want to try to make a better sort for unpack. I never did like the way I did it in DCom.

You cannot run any part of DCom by itself. The main procedure loads each part file in its turn, and executes each procedure in its turn:

DCP1: DCom executes DData1, DData2, DComplex and DVars
DCP2: DCom executes DMatch, DSort (which calls the other sorts) and DTypes
DCP3: DCom executes DLNums, and DPrint. (the sorts are run from DLNums)
DCP4: DCom executes DInstr. DRPN and DHex are called by Dinstr

As each procedure is completed, DCom KILLs the procedure, and when the part is done, DCom unlinks the first procedure in the part so it is removed from memory.

Because DCom takes so much time to perform its task, I included print statements (to stderr) so you can have a clue where in its execution DCom is. In the default mode (the way the source is), It prints a character (or 2) showing which procedure is being executed (like D1 for DData1), and a period for each file created (In DData1 and DData2, the output is D1.. and D2..) That is how I know where it is getting hung. If it made it to DComplex, it would print C on the screen. It never gets that far.

If there's any other info you need, ask me. I am trying to finish up the documentation to the program, and when I'm finished with that I am going to try to debug DCom again.

Wayne



________________________________
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:57:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I have finished typing in the source code to DCom 3.5. I have uploaded it to source forge. I'm not certain what is going on with it, though. When I wrote it, it ran, and worked, at least as far as decompiling itself on my CoCo3 was concerned.
> 
> It loads and packs without error, but for some reason it reports a 201 error (illegal path number) while running DData2. If I specify no output file (-o option), it doesn't error, but it hangs, as though it's stuck in a loop. I am going to try to figure out what is wrong with it, but I've been working on the new version (called unpack), so I'm not sure how much effort I want to put into fixing DCom.
> 
> If anyone wants to look at the code, you can find it on sourceforge.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/dcomb09/files/
> 
> I'm going to be putting the source for version 3.1 there also. There are major differences between the two versions, and I want to preserve both versions. The source to 3.1 is DCom generated. I used 3.1 to decompile itself a short time ago. The 3.1 source will be on sourceforge in the next week or so.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 

Wayne,
I downloaded your code and found that DCP4.B09 is three Basic09 source code files. I think that DINSTR is the main module and removed the REM but get a parameter error at $B09  IF verbose THEN   when trying to run the program.

What is the correct syntax for using the program?

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 14:28:54 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] more info
Message-ID: <472486.53218.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This is directed to Robert Gault.

I have completed the data structure info for the files created by DCom. I list it here for your convenience.

Wayne

DCom Data File Structures:

DCData.1 is derived from the DSAT

databyts     : INTEGER   - size of DSAT
varcount     : INTEGER   - number of variables
complexcount : INTEGER   - number of complex variables
subcount     : INTEGER   - number of named subroutines
typcount     : INTEGER   - number of record TYPE variables
mirrorcount  : INTEGER   - number of mirror variables
unidcount    : INTEGER   - number of unidentified variables
totalvars    : INTEGER   - total program variables
linenums     : INTEGER   - number of line number references
databuff     : 512 BYTEs - contents of DSAT

DCData.2 and DCData.3 are derived from the VDT

DCData.2

subcount     : INTEGER   - number of named subroutines
sub records  : TYPE SUB=subtyp:BYTE; subid,sdat2loc:INTEGER; subname:STRING[29]

DCData.3

complexcount : INTEGER   - number of complex variables
complex recs : TYPE COM=comtyp:BYTE; comid,memloc,dat1loc,cdat2loc,comsize,arraysize,
               numbyts:INTEGER; comname,arrayname:STRING[14]

DCData.4 is the data map

mapcount     : INTEGER   - number of entries in the map file
map records  : TYPE MAP=mapid:INTEGER; mapbyts:BYTE; isset:BOOLEAN

DCData.5

varcount     : INTEGER   - number of variables
var records  : TYPE VAR=vartyp:BYTE; varid,memloc,varsize,numbyts:INTEGER;
               varname:STRING[14]

DCData.6

typcount     : INTEGER   - number of record TYPE variables
type records : TYPE TYPS=typloc,typid,typvar:INTEGER; numvars:BYTE; typname:STRING[4]

DCData.7

linenums     : INTEGER   - number of line number references
lnum records : INTEGER   - offset references

DCData.8

This file existed in DCom 3.1 and earlier. It was used as a means to determine a hex value, and is unnecessary in 3.5. It was replaced with DHex.


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 15:23:46 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] image files
Message-ID: <507101.3259.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I uploaded 3 .os9 image files to source forge. They are 360K image files.

Binaries - DCom 3.5 I-Code files and docs
Source - the source code files
Formatted - formatted listings of the source (indents blocks and adds offset addresses to each instruction)

I also included a Docs folder in the DCom 3.5 folder that includes the docs files.

Wayne



      


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Tue Sep 29 19:32:01 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:32:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source
In-Reply-To: <164942.15411.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4AC2043E.3000700@worldnet.att.net>
	<164942.15411.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AC298F1.7090707@worldnet.att.net>

Thanks, Wayne. My problems was I went to the Source Forge site before 
you posted all the code.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 20:00:46 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source
In-Reply-To: <4AC298F1.7090707@worldnet.att.net>
References: <95059.41095.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AC2043E.3000700@worldnet.att.net>
	<164942.15411.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AC298F1.7090707@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <768063.91848.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You're welcome, Robert. I've been looking at the code. The error is occuring in DData2 at the beginning of the WHILE loop. It SEEKs the filepath (the file being decoded), and then does a GET of one byte. The error is occuring when it does that GET. Because of the error number, I can't help but wonder if it's a bug in MESS, in NitrOS-9, or in the 1.01.00 version of Basic09. The path variable is correct, and it isn't erroring on the SEEK statement that precedes the GET. Both statements are using the same path variable.




________________________________
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:32:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] DCom 3.5 source

Thanks, Wayne. My problems was I went to the Source Forge site before you posted all the code.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From wb8tyw at qsl.net  Tue Sep 29 20:28:02 2009
From: wb8tyw at qsl.net (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:28:02 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Powering a computer room/ham shack?
Message-ID: <h9u8mh$699$1@ger.gmane.org>

I am trying to set up a workshop where I may be able to play with my 
COCOs and other toys again, so this is not totally off topic.

Unfortunately the builder of my house, while putting in the plumbing for 
downstairs bathroom, only put one spare power cable, a 12 AWG with 3 
insulted wires and a ground.  That would be good for 2 20 A split 
neutral circuits.

This is in addition to the required single 20 A circuit in the basement 
that is currently active.  Combined that gives me a total of 60 A in the 
  basement.

The resulting 60 Amps is more than sufficient for powering the expected 
TVs, Ham Radios, and computers, and workbench tools.

I would prefer though to have a sub-panel with multiple circuits, where 
each circuit would just be 15 A, for the computers and the Ham Radios 
and TVs.

I have not been able to find a strong reference as to if this would pass 
   a housing inspection.

All the references on the Internet I have seen is using 30A dual 
breakers and 10 AWG feeders to a sub panel.  Putting in the 10 AWG 
feeder would be difficult as there is no good path from the main panel 
in the garage to the basement.  I would likely have to run visible 
conduit on the outside of the dry-wall.  As such, I would probably have 
to get a professional to install that.

The NEC does seem to have tables indicating that a 20 A feed is allowed, 
as long as 20 A ganged breakers are used to protect it.

The last time I had electrician's training was in 1975, and I just read 
the NEC code and a lot of stuff has changed.

I figured that there would be people here with more practical experience 
in this.

Regards,
-John
wb8tyw at qsl.net
Personal Opinion Only



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 29 21:49:38 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:49:38 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>



Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...

Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch.  :)

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 22:29:27 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <716787.76248.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Bookmarked. I am a BIG RotN fan! lol

Wayne




________________________________
From: Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:49:38 PM
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies



Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...

Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch.  :)

http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
-- ~ Roger Taylor



--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From badfrog at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 22:41:33 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:41:33 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
>
>
> Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...
>
> Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch. ?:)
>
> http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
> --
> ~ Roger Taylor
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>

Somebody needs to find a VHS tape of Party Camp.


From cyberpunk at prtc.net  Tue Sep 29 22:49:20 2009
From: cyberpunk at prtc.net (RJLCyberPunk)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:49:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] When will the CoCo 3 Forums be back?
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<716787.76248.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A918F6865EA546F7A77695E0952B59BC@FANTASYWARE>

Today I tried to log on to the forums and found a message that read module 
inactive. Any idea when it will be back? 



From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 29 23:40:48 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:40:48 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>

At 09:41 PM 9/29/2009, you wrote:
>On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...
> >
> > Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch.  :)
> >
> > http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
> >
> >



>Somebody needs to find a VHS tape of Party Camp.



Yea, *that's* the one with the kid in the cabin plotting an attack on 
the enemies, using a CoCo?  Netflix doesn't show it listed.  Bummer.



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From operator at coco3.com  Tue Sep 29 23:52:16 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:52:16 -0500
Subject: [Coco] When will the CoCo 3 Forums be back?
In-Reply-To: <A918F6865EA546F7A77695E0952B59BC@FANTASYWARE>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<716787.76248.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<A918F6865EA546F7A77695E0952B59BC@FANTASYWARE>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929224103.06154f18@coco3.com>

At 09:49 PM 9/29/2009, you wrote:
>Today I tried to log on to the forums and found a message that read 
>module inactive. Any idea when it will be back?




Both the old 2003-2007 and 2007-2009 CoCo Forums are now in blog form 
on the new coco3.com.  Expect the old site to fade away.  A lot of 
effort has been made to recover old accounts from the original forums 
2003-2007 and the newer forums 2007-2009.  I cross referenced as much 
as I could to put back together many of the accounts.  If you can't 
remember your nickname, maybe the Forgot Password link will let you 
enter your e-mail address and if it matches an account, your 
password/username will be sent to that address... which is safe 
because nobody gets it but the intended person.

Over time I will make the blog perform more like a forum 
system.  It's actually very easy to post a message and there's about 
4 ways, with one being the quickest, and that is using the link at 
the top of the screen under the header.  From the dashboard link you 
can have a full-fledged editor with HTML, too.

Post large articles if you will or just chit chat.  Everything CoCo is welcome.

On the Post form you'll see checkboxes for the categories you want 
your message to appear in.  This would be the same as a "forum" in 
the CoCo Forums.

Right now you can't see what's new since your last login but I snuck 
in a test dump of messages on the Products page at the bottom that 
shows the last group of messages posted.  The sidebars also show the 
latest comments and posts.

Now that the forums and a lot of the historic messages from Delphi, 
Princeton, etc. are being blogged as well, the entire massive 
collection of posts and articles can be dumped at once, backed up, 
and ported to other formats quite easily, meaning that this was the 
smartest move yet in letting our CoCo past live on.

You'll get used to the blog but it might take time.  All of your past 
posts should be there.  If you can remember your handle, let me know 
(this goes for anybody who can't log in yet), and I will link the 
account to you.



-- 
~ Roger Taylor




From badfrog at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 00:22:38 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:22:38 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> At 09:41 PM 9/29/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...
>> >
>> > Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch. ?:)
>> >
>> > http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>> Somebody needs to find a VHS tape of Party Camp.
>
>
>
> Yea, *that's* the one with the kid in the cabin plotting an attack on the
> enemies, using a CoCo? ?Netflix doesn't show it listed. ?Bummer.
>
>

Yup, that's the one.  I know, because I was a teenager when it was on
Showtime when I shouldn't have been watching it, but still recognized
the computer. ;-)


From davidlinsley at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 00:37:50 2009
From: davidlinsley at gmail.com (David Linsley)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:37:50 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> > At 09:41 PM 9/29/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Folks, it's my first YouTube video ever...
> >> >
> >> > Warning... this video may be painful for some to watch.  :)
> >> >
> >> > http://www.coco3.com/community/2009/09/coco-in-the-movies/
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Somebody needs to find a VHS tape of Party Camp.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yea, *that's* the one with the kid in the cabin plotting an attack on the
> > enemies, using a CoCo?  Netflix doesn't show it listed.  Bummer.
> >
>

You should check out www.starringthecomputer.com, and in particular
http://www.starringthecomputer.com/computer.php?c=34

Apparently the CoCo was also in Street Hawk, something called Silver Spoons,
and most impressively, This is Spinal Tap!

Cheers,
David,


From lamune at doki-doki.net  Wed Sep 30 02:11:11 2009
From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:11:11 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Powering a computer room/ham shack?
In-Reply-To: <h9u8mh$699$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <h9u8mh$699$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E919319E4591@concord.lamunet.local>

You can feed a small sub-panel with that 20A line just fine, and split it off into pretty much as many circuits as you want. Obviously you cannot draw more than 20A off either of the hot legs from the source panel without tripping the source breaker.

A 20A 2-pole breaker should feed your subpanel, remember to get the permits beforehand (and ask to make sure your local codes allow what you want to do) and do not bond the neutral to ground in your subpanel (that's a big no-no)

You can run lots of CoCos off that 20A 2-pole breaker :)

-Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-
> bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of John E. Malmberg
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:28 PM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: [Coco] Powering a computer room/ham shack?
> 
> I am trying to set up a workshop where I may be able to play with my
> COCOs and other toys again, so this is not totally off topic.
> 
> Unfortunately the builder of my house, while putting in the plumbing
> for
> downstairs bathroom, only put one spare power cable, a 12 AWG with 3
> insulted wires and a ground.  That would be good for 2 20 A split
> neutral circuits.
> 
> This is in addition to the required single 20 A circuit in the basement
> that is currently active.  Combined that gives me a total of 60 A in
> the
>   basement.
> 
> The resulting 60 Amps is more than sufficient for powering the expected
> TVs, Ham Radios, and computers, and workbench tools.
> 
> I would prefer though to have a sub-panel with multiple circuits, where
> each circuit would just be 15 A, for the computers and the Ham Radios
> and TVs.
> 
> I have not been able to find a strong reference as to if this would
> pass
>    a housing inspection.
> 
> All the references on the Internet I have seen is using 30A dual
> breakers and 10 AWG feeders to a sub panel.  Putting in the 10 AWG
> feeder would be difficult as there is no good path from the main panel
> in the garage to the basement.  I would likely have to run visible
> conduit on the outside of the dry-wall.  As such, I would probably have
> to get a professional to install that.
> 
> The NEC does seem to have tables indicating that a 20 A feed is
> allowed,
> as long as 20 A ganged breakers are used to protect it.
> 
> The last time I had electrician's training was in 1975, and I just read
> the NEC code and a lot of stuff has changed.
> 
> I figured that there would be people here with more practical
> experience
> in this.
> 
> Regards,
> -John
> wb8tyw at qsl.net
> Personal Opinion Only
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From os9dude at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 05:23:08 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:23:08 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
	<9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580909300223j344b7745ob6f7997bd78fb74f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:37 AM, David Linsley <davidlinsley at gmail.com>wrote:


> You should check out www.starringthecomputer.com, and in particular
> http://www.starringthecomputer.com/computer.php?c=34
>
> Apparently the CoCo was also in Street Hawk, something called Silver
> Spoons,
> and most impressively, This is Spinal Tap!
>
> Cheers,
> David,
>


This is Spinal Tap: confirmed. The guys are on the tour bus and Viv Savage
(keyboards - played by David Kaff) is playing Polaris on a gray CoCo 1. Well
depicted... good screen time for a computer :-)


-- Rogelio


From Torsten at Dittel.info  Wed Sep 30 08:32:09 2009
From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:32:09 +0200
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <5631e580909300223j344b7745ob6f7997bd78fb74f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>	<9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
	<5631e580909300223j344b7745ob6f7997bd78fb74f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h9vj48$js9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Could someone confirm it's featured in the "Lab" of "Swamp Thing"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084745/

I darkly remember seeing kind of a PMODE3 SCREEN1,1 RND-LINE/CIRCLE 
Screensaver in the background...



From jdaggett at gate.net  Wed Sep 30 09:02:25 2009
From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:02:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] When will the CoCo 3 Forums be back?
In-Reply-To: <A918F6865EA546F7A77695E0952B59BC@FANTASYWARE>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>,
	<A918F6865EA546F7A77695E0952B59BC@FANTASYWARE>
Message-ID: <4AC356E1.7575.605F53@jdaggett.gate.net>

On 29 Sep 2009 at 22:49, RJLCyberPunk wrote:

> Today I tried to log on to the forums and found a message that read module 
> inactive. Any idea when it will be back? 
> 
> 


I doubt the old style of forums will return under this new format. Sad, as I did like the old 
style and could choose sections that interested me instead of wading through messages 
that are of lesser interests. 

I do understand the need to keep spammers out and hackers from taking over the 
webpage. Just that I am a bit set in my ways and when I find something I like, I am 
reluctant to change. 

james




From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Sep 30 10:28:03 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:28:03 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
	<9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090930142803.GA3835@tuxdriver.com>

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 09:37:50PM -0700, David Linsley wrote:

> Apparently the CoCo was also in Street Hawk, something called Silver Spoons,
> and most impressively, This is Spinal Tap!

"something called Silver Spoons" -- it's like a dagger to my heart...I
must be old!

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From davidlinsley at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 12:38:04 2009
From: davidlinsley at gmail.com (David Linsley)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:38:04 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <20090930142803.GA3835@tuxdriver.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
	<9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090930142803.GA3835@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <9bbc335b0909300938m2495c18t7afc92fa534a47aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:28 AM, John W. Linville <linville at tuxdriver.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 09:37:50PM -0700, David Linsley wrote:
>
> > Apparently the CoCo was also in Street Hawk, something called Silver
> Spoons,
> > and most impressively, This is Spinal Tap!
>
> "something called Silver Spoons" -- it's like a dagger to my heart...I
> must be old!
>
> John
> --
> John W. Linville                Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com                  might be all we have.  Be ready.
>
Hehehe, sorry! Although I've lived in Seattle for over 7 years now, I guess
this was one of the shows that either didn't make it to the UK or wasn't of
it interest to me at the time.

Cheers,
David.


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Sep 30 13:25:12 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:25:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo in the Movies
In-Reply-To: <9bbc335b0909300938m2495c18t7afc92fa534a47aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090929204806.06666f18@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909291941l4ba94b9co4066c8515fe48f2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090929223701.06154c88@coco3.com>
	<9efa17da0909292122q26d08b03r146ccb8b3a113766@mail.gmail.com>
	<9bbc335b0909292137x4db58453qe6647febf6931fcf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090930142803.GA3835@tuxdriver.com>
	<9bbc335b0909300938m2495c18t7afc92fa534a47aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090930172511.GB6364@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:38:04AM -0700, David Linsley wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:28 AM, John W. Linville <linville at tuxdriver.com>wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 09:37:50PM -0700, David Linsley wrote:
> >
> > > Apparently the CoCo was also in Street Hawk, something called Silver
> > Spoons,
> > > and most impressively, This is Spinal Tap!
> >
> > "something called Silver Spoons" -- it's like a dagger to my heart...I
> > must be old!
> >
> > John
> > --
> > John W. Linville                Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> > linville at tuxdriver.com                  might be all we have.  Be ready.
> >
> Hehehe, sorry! Although I've lived in Seattle for over 7 years now, I guess
> this was one of the shows that either didn't make it to the UK or wasn't of
> it interest to me at the time.

Ahhh...well, I guess I can forgive you for being "foreign"... :-)

Re: Silver Spoons -- that is the show that most inspired my desire
to own arcade video game machines (of which I still have too many)...

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From farna at att.net  Wed Sep 30 15:11:31 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:11:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Powering a computer room/ham shack?
Message-ID: <4AC3AD63.7000209@att.net>

Running a 20A 220 circuit on 12 AWG is fine (two hots and one neutral). That's really all you need to worry about. Run the 20A 220 to a small sub panel. You'll only find 125A sub panels at Lowe's and such, but again, that's not a problem. I don't know how many circuits you can run, but as long as you don't exceed the 20A draw you're fine. Most sub panels are run with a 30A or higher breaker, but they are run with more draw in mind than what you have. I have a six breaker sub panel run in my house but with a 50A 220V breaker in the box. I have 5 20A and 1 15A breaker in the sub panel. This is just to divide lighting and zone the outlets. The 15A breaker is for the lights, probably no more than 1A draw with just over 100 watts of lights -- compact fluorescents -- and that's if all are on at the same time... well, cut the ceiling fan on and it might pull 2-3A. I don't know what the percentage over the main breaker for the sub panel is (in your case a 20A), but I know it's at least twice the amount. If you're just putting 2-3 15A breakers and 15A outlets in you're more than covered. 

You might want to just run 1 220V receptacle in a box with the spare circuit until the inspector leaves. Then replace the receptacle and box with a sub panel and 3-4 15A outlets, either each on their own breaker or a pair on each breaker. I'm not recommending you do something unsafe, as the 20A breaker will blow if you overload. It just makes it easier for you to do without explaining anything. The inspectors usually take the tack of "if you sell the house the new owners won't know and might just stick a bigger breaker in." My thought is if they're that stupid they're likely to screw something else up and burn the house down too, you can't idiot proof everything! 

Most just don't run less than 30A to a sub panel, but your idea is more to spread the load around, not put more than a 20A load on it. You'll only have a problem if you start tripping the 20A 220V breaker. No electric heaters down there!! Legally, you can work on your own wiring, just not if it is a rental or commercial space (at least in most states). 

#12 wire is good for 20A. http://www.electrical-online.com/cableandwire.htm

--------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:28:02 -0500
From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw at qsl.net>

I am trying to set up a workshop where I may be able to play with my 
COCOs and other toys again, so this is not totally off topic.

Unfortunately the builder of my house, while putting in the plumbing for 
downstairs bathroom, only put one spare power cable, a 12 AWG with 3 
insulted wires and a ground.  That would be good for 2 20 A split 
neutral circuits.

This is in addition to the required single 20 A circuit in the basement 
that is currently active.  Combined that gives me a total of 60 A in the 
  basement.

The resulting 60 Amps is more than sufficient for powering the expected 
TVs, Ham Radios, and computers, and workbench tools.

I would prefer though to have a sub-panel with multiple circuits, where 
each circuit would just be 15 A, for the computers and the Ham Radios 
and TVs.

I have not been able to find a strong reference as to if this would pass 
   a housing inspection.

All the references on the Internet I have seen is using 30A dual 
breakers and 10 AWG feeders to a sub panel.  Putting in the 10 AWG 
feeder would be difficult as there is no good path from the main panel 
in the garage to the basement.  I would likely have to run visible 
conduit on the outside of the dry-wall.  As such, I would probably have 
to get a professional to install that.

The NEC does seem to have tables indicating that a 20 A feed is allowed, 
as long as 20 A ganged breakers are used to protect it.



-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)




From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 30 21:36:55 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] os version check
Message-ID: <84886.14272.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I haven't been able to locate any system call that I can use to return the version of the OS. It may be that this info is not available through the system. For the meantime, I'm going to add a parameter to DCom that will be used to identify the OS. The option will be 'n'. By default, n will be TRUE (meaning NitrOS09). If you pass the option '-n', DCom will use the TMode Pause/-Pause form. No option, or 'n' as the option, will cause DCom to use the TMode -pau=1/-pau=0 form.

If someone knows of a system call that allows you to determine different systems, please let me know.

Wayne


      


From devries.bob at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 21:51:01 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:51:01 +1000
Subject: [Coco] os version check
References: <84886.14272.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005401ca4239$a2da1210$6501a8c0@aceraspire>

Hi Wayne,

It should also be possible to circumvent this problem (if you're only 
concerned with the page pause) by calling SysCall with the appropriate 
function call codes.

I'm away from my documentation, so I can't help much more than that.

Regards, Bob Devries
Las Pinas, Philippines

--
Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's 
native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer.

Edsger W.Dijkstra, 18 June 1975

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: [Coco] os version check


>I haven't been able to locate any system call that I can use to return the 
>version of the OS. It may be that this info is not available through the 
>system. For the meantime, I'm going to add a parameter to DCom that will be 
>used to identify the OS. The option will be 'n'. By default, n will be TRUE 
>(meaning NitrOS09). If you pass the option '-n', DCom will use the TMode 
>Pause/-Pause form. No option, or 'n' as the option, will cause DCom to use 
>the TMode -pau=1/-pau=0 form.
>
> If someone knows of a system call that allows you to determine different 
> systems, please let me know.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Wed Sep 30 22:16:39 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:16:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] os version check
In-Reply-To: <84886.14272.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <84886.14272.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AC41107.7080909@worldnet.att.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I haven't been able to locate any system call that I can use to return the version of the OS. It may be that this info is not available through the system. For the meantime, I'm going to add a parameter to DCom that will be used to identify the OS. The option will be 'n'. By default, n will be TRUE (meaning NitrOS09). If you pass the option '-n', DCom will use the TMode Pause/-Pause form. No option, or 'n' as the option, will cause DCom to use the TMode -pau=1/-pau=0 form.
> 
> If someone knows of a system call that allows you to determine different systems, please let me know.
> 
> Wayne
> 

There is no command that I know of which will distinguish OS-9 versions. 
However, you could try reading the sys/motd file.

OS-9 Level1 version 1
WELCOME TO COLOR COMPUTER OS-9

OS-9 Level1 version 2
Same as above

OS-9 Level2
No sys/motd file. However, the startup file contains
Welcome to OS-9 Level2

NitrOS-9 GaleForce
NitrOS-9 v1.22f                   and much more info. Earlier versions
                                   don't have motd.

NitrOS-9 current both Level1 and Level2
Welcome to NitrOS-9 Level #!              Where # is 1 or 2.


From ed.orbea at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 22:18:45 2009
From: ed.orbea at gmail.com (Ed Orbea)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:18:45 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Copy of the Manual
Message-ID: <4AC41185.1090005@gmail.com>

I purchased Roy's VGA converter last year and have successfully used it 
since, but now can't find the 1 (or 2) page manual that Roy sends with 
his converter. I have emailed Roy, but am also sending this message to 
the group to see if anybody has a scanned copy of the 1 or 2 page manual 
available, or know where a copy is hosted?

Roy is busy with his order list and perfecting the new version of the 
converter, so I'm sure that he would appreciate not having to send a 
copy to a user who lost his original copy of the manual.

Thanks for your help

Ed Orbea


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 30 23:12:05 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] os version check
In-Reply-To: <4AC41107.7080909@worldnet.att.net>
References: <84886.14272.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4AC41107.7080909@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <835452.77262.qm@web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks for this information, Robert. The only difficulty I see in the information you provided is that I won't be able to determine if the OS is NitrOS-9 pre-v1.22f and OS-9 Level 2 without having to read a second file. In either case, I have to read and compare data to make the determination. Using the -n option is much less code, and easier to process. I'm going to keep this info anyway, because I may find it useful later.

Update on DCom. I have added the OS option flag (-n) and added the boolean flag, plus condition code to determine which form of TMode to use. I have corrected the tpyo in the parameter being passed to DData2. The 211 error in DVars turned out to be a simple fix.

My memory was jogged by it. I remember having that bug before. It was because I wasn't checking for EOF in the loop that read through the variables file seeking a match to the currently identified variable. I added EOF(#DC5path) to the exit condition, and the error disappeared.

DCom now makes it to the DInstr routine before another problem occurs. Testing with a small procedure named 'elapsed', once DInstr is called, it prints out 2 of 3 print statements containing comment lines. Since there is nothing in the statements except PRINT and the string containing the comment, it made no sense. I used another procedure named 'ribbsmain' as the test, and DTypes reported a 211 error. I'm reasonable sure it's another case of needing the EOF(#datapath) in the exit condition. However, it doesn't end there.

DTypes builds, and prints out, the TYPE, DIM and PARAM statements. Before those statements are output, a series of comment lines are generated that contain specifics of the data accumulated by DCom as it concerns the variables and line references. DCom reported 1 variable, -512 complex variables, and a total of 13 program variables. Obviously, that data cannot be correct. I believe I know what is the culprit. In decoding the I-Code manually (I did that a few weeks ago), I discovered there is a unused record in the DSAT for elapsed. I think it may be the same problem I always had with type statements in DCom.

Packed I-Code does not contain everything related to variables. There are references to the variables as they relate to the data memory allocation in the DSAT. If the variable was not used in the instruction statements, any and all pointers to that data are lost in packing. I can pretty much figure out where the gaps in the allocation are, and their size, but when it comes to records (your TYPE statements), there is no direct memory allocation. The data in the DSAT is shape data concerning the structure of the size of the allocation. Different variables, DIMed to the same TYPE, only have an integer that is the relative offset from the beginning of the data memory and the size of the memory allocated to it.

In the case of a record that was never used, that means no variable was DIMed to that type, or the variable was never referenced in the instruction code. While the offset and size integers are still in the DSAT, and the shape data for that record is still there, there's no real way to reference it. DCom attempts to create a TYPE statement based on the shape data, and invent a variable to be DIMed to that TYPE, but I never got it to work quite right. I think this is why I'm having trouble with decoding elapsed.

Anyway, I'll be working on trying to figure it out, but I'd rather work on the unpack version than the DCom version.

Wayne




________________________________
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:16:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] os version check

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I haven't been able to locate any system call that I can use to return the version of the OS. It may be that this info is not available through the system. For the meantime, I'm going to add a parameter to DCom that will be used to identify the OS. The option will be 'n'. By default, n will be TRUE (meaning NitrOS09). If you pass the option '-n', DCom will use the TMode Pause/-Pause form. No option, or 'n' as the option, will cause DCom to use the TMode -pau=1/-pau=0 form.
> 
> If someone knows of a system call that allows you to determine different systems, please let me know.
> 
> Wayne
> 

There is no command that I know of which will distinguish OS-9 versions. However, you could try reading the sys/motd file.

OS-9 Level1 version 1
WELCOME TO COLOR COMPUTER OS-9

OS-9 Level1 version 2
Same as above

OS-9 Level2
No sys/motd file. However, the startup file contains
Welcome to OS-9 Level2

NitrOS-9 GaleForce
NitrOS-9 v1.22f                   and much more info. Earlier versions
                                  don't have motd.

NitrOS-9 current both Level1 and Level2
Welcome to NitrOS-9 Level #!              Where # is 1 or 2.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco