[Coco] HWGA (was) Coco games copyright

Ben Jimenez ben_jimenez at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 12 15:18:18 EST 2009 

Allen,

Yeah, I agree, it can become quite a thrill distributing an app onto a platform that can be played (and bought) by millions of IPod users. 

Ben





--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com> wrote:

> From: Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] HWGA (was)  Coco games copyright
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 9:16 AM
> A few CoCo games have lived on after the CoCo. Color
> Outhouse was supposed to be ported to the PC via someone
> posting to this list years ago, and a few other authors
> eventually did PC games.
> 
> I, too, will be starting iPhone/iPod Touch development soon
> and plan to port some coco projects. Should be fun!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
> 
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Ben Jimenez
> <ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi, i'm not sure why I can't see my responses
> to these post but here goes. The reason I was asking is
> because I'm starting to develop some games for the Ipod
> platform and I thought it would be cool to convert some of
> the Coco games.
> > 
> > I'm developing in Object-C so i'm not sure how
> easy it would be to do the whole emulator, but making some
> clones of some good game would help me to get a good start
> on the platform and keep the coco games going.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, John <johnguin at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: John <johnguin at hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Coco] HWGA (was)  Coco games
> copyright
> >> To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer
> Enthusiasts'" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> >> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:55 PM
> >> Would it be easier to port MESS or some other
> emulator and
> >> get the entire
> >> COCO library in one fell swoop?
> >> 
> >> To be clear, I have NO idea how easy/hard that
> would be.  I
> >> just wanted to
> >> ask what was an obvious (to me) question.
> >> 
> >> John
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> >> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
> >> Behalf Of Allen Huffman
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:38 PM
> >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> >> Subject: Re: [Coco] HWGA (was) Coco games
> copyright
> >> 
> >> Ben, which platform?
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> Follow me on Twitter -
> http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
> >> 
> >> On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Ben Jimenez
> >> <ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> well that more then answers my question. I am
> think
> >> about cloning
> >>> some games. I guess I should try to contact
> the
> >> authors once I
> >>> determine which one(s) I want to port over to
> a mobile
> >> platform.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Joel Ewy
> <jcewy at swbell.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> From: Joel Ewy <jcewy at swbell.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Coco] HWGA (was)  Coco games
> >> copyright
> >>>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer
> >> Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:01
> PM
> >>>> James Hrubik wrote:
> >>>>> Why am I waiting with bated breath,
> holding my
> >> finger
> >>>> over the DELETE
> >>>>> key...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Maybe each newbie should get an email
> from
> >> Dennis with
> >>>> something to
> >>>>> the effect that discussions of
> religion,
> >> politics, and
> >>>> copyrights
> >>>>> should be avoided because they are
> equally
> >> likely to
> >>>> start flame wars.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> (Sorry, Joel.  I know you just wanted
> to help
> >> the guy,
> >>>> but I can't
> >>>>> help thinking you were just trolled.)
> >>>>> 
> >>>> Maybe so.  But I've now said all I
> have to say
> >> on the
> >>>> matter, and I
> >>>> won't respond to insults or taunts. 
> Nothing
> >> anybody
> >>>> can say to me on
> >>>> this list can be worse than things
> I've been
> >> told in
> >>>> person.
> >>>> 
> >>>> JCE
> >>>>> On Feb 11, 2009, at Wednesday,
> February 11,
> >> 2009 -
> >>>> 1:51 PM, Joel Ewy
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Ben Jimenez wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I was thinking of converting
> some Coco
> >> games
> >>>> over to a new platform,
> >>>>>>> but was wondering what the
> copyright
> >> was on
> >>>> them now?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> --Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>> 
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Copyright is forever.  Well, not
> quite
> >> forever.
> >>>> It's the life of the
> >>>>>> author plus 70 years plus the
> amount of
> >> time since
> >>>> Walt Disney died, or
> >>>>>> something like that.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Seriously, it isn't like
> patents,
> >> which expire
> >>>> in 17 years.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> There are a number of authors of
> CoCo
> >> games who
> >>>> have given permission
> >>>>>> for their programs to be
> distributed for
> >> free,
> >>>> often with certain
> >>>>>> restrictions, such as "you
> may not
> >> charge for
> >>>> a copy", etc.  This does
> >>>>>> not mean that they have renounced
> their
> >> copyright
> >>>> and put the programs
> >>>>>> in the public domain, only that
> they are
> >> using
> >>>> their copyright to
> >>>>>> specify the terms under which
> their works
> >> can be
> >>>> copied.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> L. Curtis Boyle has received
> permission to
> >> make
> >>>> some of these games
> >>>>>> available for download from his
> web site,
> >> and has
> >>>> documented the
> >>>>>> permissions he has.  Since these
> authors
> >> have
> >>>> given some enhanced
> >>>>>> permissions for their works, they
> might be
> >>>> amenable to discussing a
> >>>>>> port.  You'd just have to get
> in touch
> >> with
> >>>> them and see.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Of course, if you're just
> talking
> >> about
> >>>> writing your own clone of their
> >>>>>> original game, you don't need
> to get
> >> any
> >>>> permission or worry about
> >>>>>> copyright, unless you directly
> copy stuff
> >> from the
> >>>> game, or use
> >>>>>> trademarked names and so on.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Now since these things are pretty
> old, and
> >> many of
> >>>> the old authors
> >>>>>> aren't involved with the CoCo
> anymore,
> >> you
> >>>> might get away with just
> >>>>>> appropriating it, but of course
> you'd
> >> be doing
> >>>> so at the risk that they
> >>>>>> would take notice and threaten a
> lawsuit.
> >> How
> >>>> likely that would be
> >>>>>> would probably depend on how you
> use it.
> >> If you
> >>>> are trying to sell
> >>>>>> copies of a game that blatantly
> steals
> >> their
> >>>> copyrighted materials, they
> >>>>>> would probably be more likely to
> take
> >> offense, or
> >>>> take action.  If you
> >>>>>> do it for fun and give it away for
> free,
> >> and
> >>>> position it as a fan paying
> >>>>>> tribute to a great game of the
> past, they
> >> may not
> >>>> care, and might even
> >>>>>> feel honored that their old work
> has been
> >>>> remembered.  On the other
> >>>>>> hand, they might still be
> perfectly within
> >> their
> >>>> rights to sue you.  Do
> >>>>>> so at your own risk.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> One other factor is that for most
> of these
> >>>> programs there's no economic
> >>>>>> benefit to be gained from suing
> you.
> >> It's not
> >>>> as if you're depriving
> >>>>>> them of any significant potential
> income
> >> from
> >>>> these 20+ years old
> >>>>>> programs.  But for some people it
> may be a
> >> matter
> >>>> of principle.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Now, there may be some CoCo games
> out
> >> there that
> >>>> are really Open Source,
> >>>>>> or something approximating that. 
> Those
> >> you should
> >>>> be able to port more
> >>>>>> freely.  But for those that
> aren't you
> >> are
> >>>> either going to have to
> >>>>>> disassemble them or contact the
> original
> >> author
> >>>> and see if the source
> >>>>>> code is still around.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> JCE
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> --Coco mailing list
> >>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>> 
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --Coco mailing list
> >>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>> 
> >>> --
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> >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >> 
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> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
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> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
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> 
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