From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 00:15:10 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:15:10 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0907310754m35fe23e0ta67392641b867b86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220907310042o795158cdwafd0c7e9ecb2ce3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<9efa17da0907310754m35fe23e0ta67392641b867b86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640907312115r6fb5f61fw26b256003c27db1e@mail.gmail.com>

If you let me know which code listings are difficult like that, I
might be able to get a better scan.
I have had great success with Abby Fine in its "BASIC" recognition
mode on the online Rainbows
found at maltedmedia.   If it worked I could just paste in the text.
Might save some time.
-Aaron


On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Sean<badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was having fun until I got a code-checking one, almost every 'M' was
> turned into an 'H', no '=' was correct, along with many, many, many
> other OCR errors.
> I'd be amazed if I actually got them all. ?That one hurt!
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Fedor Steeman<petrander at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Regarding Tom Lindner's excellent Rainbow digitization system: I thought a
>> little competition would not harm. In any case it is a great idea with the
>> top contributor list!
>>
>> I have now crept up into the top 3 and gaining in on 68.151.107.163 followed
>> by Robert. It won't be long until I am number two! :-) :-)
>>
>> See if y'all can beat that score, suckers! MUHAHAHA!! Hasta la vista!
>>
>> Fedor
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Sat Aug  1 00:43:25 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:43:25 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Creating a real floppy from a dsk image over drivewire
In-Reply-To: <6499C8A6-A0DD-4EF7-8478-D7D999AEF8E9@ocs.net>
References: <2B61289D-A757-41E2-AB0E-C12A1ED599B3@ocs.net>
	<6499C8A6-A0DD-4EF7-8478-D7D999AEF8E9@ocs.net>
Message-ID: <69FF1A02-B3D0-4B9D-B30C-D9A52F6ECAB6@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Jul 31, 2009, at 8:11 PM, Michael Furman wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Michael Furman wrote:
>> I have found myself without a linux pc with a real floppy drive and  
>> need to create a real floppy disk from a dsk image that I have on  
>> my Mac.  Is there any way to do this?  I have tried various things  
>> like playing with the drive on/drive off command in hdb dos, and  
>> also trying in nitros9 doing backups from /xN to /d0, and also  
>> backup f blah.dsk /d0 with no luck.
>
> Let me clarify a slight ambiguity in my previous message - I have a  
> Coco 3 with a pair of 3.5" drives attached and also have Drivewire 3  
> running on my Mac laptop but lack my Linux PC that I would normally  
> use to create live floppies from the various .dsk and .os9 images I  
> have around.

I haven't used DriveWire for a few years, so I can't remember the  
commands correctly or even test this out...

I think the basic idea of copying virtual disk images from a PC  
through DriveWire onto a CoCo with floppy goes something like this:

DRIVE ON
DSKINI 4
BACKUP 0 TO 4
DRIVE OFF
BACKUP 4 TO 0

Mount the disk image you are interested in in DriveWire.  Create a  
blank, high-numbered virtual floppy to temporarily hold the disk image  
(e.g. virtual disk #4 in this case).  Copy the virtual disk image up  
to this temporary space (e.g. from virtual disk #0 to #4).  Then  
disengage DriveWire from commandeering the real floppy drive numbers,  
and backup that temporary virtual floppy onto a real floppy in the CoCo.

-- JP



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Sat Aug  1 09:55:27 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:55:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Creating a real floppy from a dsk image over drivewire
In-Reply-To: <69FF1A02-B3D0-4B9D-B30C-D9A52F6ECAB6@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <2B61289D-A757-41E2-AB0E-C12A1ED599B3@ocs.net>	<6499C8A6-A0DD-4EF7-8478-D7D999AEF8E9@ocs.net>
	<69FF1A02-B3D0-4B9D-B30C-D9A52F6ECAB6@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <4A74494F.9080103@worldnet.att.net>

J.P. Samson wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2009, at 8:11 PM, Michael Furman wrote:
>> On Jul 31, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Michael Furman wrote:
>>> I have found myself without a linux pc with a real floppy drive and 
>>> need to create a real floppy disk from a dsk image that I have on my 
>>> Mac.  Is there any way to do this?  I have tried various things like 
>>> playing with the drive on/drive off command in hdb dos, and also 
>>> trying in nitros9 doing backups from /xN to /d0, and also backup f 
>>> blah.dsk /d0 with no luck.
>>
>> Let me clarify a slight ambiguity in my previous message - I have a 
>> Coco 3 with a pair of 3.5" drives attached and also have Drivewire 3 
>> running on my Mac laptop but lack my Linux PC that I would normally 
>> use to create live floppies from the various .dsk and .os9 images I 
>> have around.
> 
> I haven't used DriveWire for a few years, so I can't remember the 
> commands correctly or even test this out...
> 
> I think the basic idea of copying virtual disk images from a PC through 
> DriveWire onto a CoCo with floppy goes something like this:
> 
> DRIVE ON
> DSKINI 4
> BACKUP 0 TO 4
> DRIVE OFF
> BACKUP 4 TO 0
> 
> Mount the disk image you are interested in in DriveWire.  Create a 
> blank, high-numbered virtual floppy to temporarily hold the disk image 
> (e.g. virtual disk #4 in this case).  Copy the virtual disk image up to 
> this temporary space (e.g. from virtual disk #0 to #4).  Then disengage 
> DriveWire from commandeering the real floppy drive numbers, and backup 
> that temporary virtual floppy onto a real floppy in the CoCo.
> 
> -- JP
> 

Those are HDBDOS or RGBDOS commands. With Drivewire, a disk mounted on 
the PC will be one of 0-3 with floppies On, but the same disk will also 
be drives 4-255 as well. It is confusing. :)


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 15:02:28 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:02:28 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Creating a real floppy from a dsk image over drivewire
In-Reply-To: <6499C8A6-A0DD-4EF7-8478-D7D999AEF8E9@ocs.net>
References: <2B61289D-A757-41E2-AB0E-C12A1ED599B3@ocs.net>
	<6499C8A6-A0DD-4EF7-8478-D7D999AEF8E9@ocs.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908011202y2061c1a9ifa28e72079eb3b6c@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/31/09, Michael Furman  wrote:
>
>
> Let me clarify a slight ambiguity in my previous message - I have a
> Coco 3 with a pair of 3.5" drives attached and also have Drivewire 3
> running on my Mac laptop but lack my Linux PC that I would normally
> use to create live floppies from the various .dsk and .os9 images I
> have around.
>
> --

Here is a procedure which I have successfully used for single-sided,
35 track images:

Make a duplicate copy of the image to work with.
Mount the image file in slot 0 of the DriveWire server.
Insert a real floppy disk in CoCo Drive 0.
Enter the following commands under DriveWire HDB-DOS:

DRIVE ON
DRIVE #0
BACKUP 0 TO 1
DRIVE OFF 0
BACKUP 1 TO 0

Be sure to include the '0' in the DRIVE OFF command. The first BACKUP
doubles the size of the mounted image file by creating a second copy
of the disk image in the same file.  The second BACKUP copies the
second image from the file onto the real floppy.

Darren


From twospruces at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 15:34:34 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:34:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Is FD-501 compatible with coco3?  I've read somewhere that it is not -
that the coco3 needs to be modified.

Any info out there?
thanks, Steve


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug  1 15:47:22 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:47:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>

The Coco3 doesn't supply 12 volts for the disk controller.  You need a
Multipak, or the newer coco2 style disk controller and drives.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 3:35 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
> 
> Hi,
> Is FD-501 compatible with coco3?  I've read somewhere that it 
> is not - that the coco3 needs to be modified.
> 
> Any info out there?
> thanks, Steve
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 15:50:54 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:50:54 -0600
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908011250x5c9b6ed3g64dac15c995f3e92@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hi,
> Is FD-501 compatible with coco3?  I've read somewhere that it is not -
> that the coco3 needs to be modified.
>
---

Yes. The FD-501 will work with a CoCo 3.  In fact all of the Tandy
controllers except for the very first version (Cat No 26-3022) will
work when plugged directly into a CoCo 3.  If you use a Multi Pak
Interface then even that first version will work.

Darren


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 15:53:22 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:53:22 -0600
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
	<F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908011253q14db3b35l92fc769ca1c4cb0d@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/09, Paul Fitch  wrote:
> The Coco3 doesn't supply 12 volts for the disk controller.  You need a
> Multipak, or the newer coco2 style disk controller and drives.
>

Yes, but the FD-501 does not require 12 volts.

Darren


From petrander at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 16:05:55 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:05:55 +0200
Subject: [Coco] CocoNet: What's up!?
Message-ID: <dcc956220908011305j58c8843fue2547d10489a3f77@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,
I just got a load of money for my birthday, that was meant to be spent on
CoCo stuff, so I was wondering how the CoCoNet software is progressing. I
wanted to buy the Bluetooth RS-232 pack, but wanted to wait till the CoCoNet
ROM was available for it, so I don't need to have it shipped twice. So,
Roger... What's up? ;-)

Cheers,
Fedor


From twospruces at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 16:07:19 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:07:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908011253q14db3b35l92fc769ca1c4cb0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
	<F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>
	<5d802cd0908011253q14db3b35l92fc769ca1c4cb0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908011307o1cbc4591pe02a8fcf026f8143@mail.gmail.com>

That's good, because it seems to work.

Now I just have to figure out how to make a 28pin DIP socket for dos
upgrade.  The schematic search begins...

I guess my set up will be

Standard coco3, 128k, with HD63C09/protector/512k upgrade.
FD-501 controller, with HDBDOS for drivewire from Cloud9
a standard 2 floppy external drive enclosure
remote PC for .DSK access via drivewire

Seems reasonable.  any comments?
What would be a good addition for storage?

..Steve

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/1/09, Paul Fitch ?wrote:
>> The Coco3 doesn't supply 12 volts for the disk controller. ?You need a
>> Multipak, or the newer coco2 style disk controller and drives.
>>
>
> Yes, but the FD-501 does not require 12 volts.
>
> Darren
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug  1 16:10:46 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:10:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>
References: <266BB460-4EA1-42DE-98E7-FB606281A34D@verizon.net>	<016EA52641A04E4FBD9F4915FAE5877C@Dell3Gig>	<4A364493.5090107@mindspring.com>	<000901c9edbc$bc3f7640$34be62c0$@rr.com>	<4A366833.4060100@mindspring.com><000001c9eddb$1c9afd70$55d0f850$@rr.com><4A369495.7040601@mindspring.com><BCD8B15756204D2A8ECE997D3357BEEA@Dell3Gig><12CDA2D9F590448191CE291639EBC4F1@Dell3Gig><238D7A1C552D4EA1BFCC7CC2074C2F4B@Dell3Gig><07BB860985DC4EEF91B5D4C5A6A5541A@Dell3Gig><014E2268C8C94EE39766F0E51CCC62B1@Dell3Gig><0EFA1FD1-AC86-4C8E-81DE-F18240079B46@nationsdial.com>
	<0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>

 I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues intot he database right now,
and there is an add in the 1st issue for another magazine I never heard of,
"the Coco Clipboard".  Did this ever get published?  Has anyone scanned them
yet?



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 16:14:36 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:14:36 -0600
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908011307o1cbc4591pe02a8fcf026f8143@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
	<F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>
	<5d802cd0908011253q14db3b35l92fc769ca1c4cb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908011307o1cbc4591pe02a8fcf026f8143@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908011314s52684bf6kd3f990bab0891c06@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>
> Now I just have to figure out how to make a 28pin DIP socket for dos
> upgrade.  The schematic search begins...
>
---

Or just purchase a DOS Adapter from Cloud-9:
<http://www.cloud9tech.com>

Darren


From flexser at fiu.edu  Sat Aug  1 19:05:24 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:05:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
References: <266BB460-4EA1-42DE-98E7-FB606281A34D@verizon.net>
	<4A369495.7040601@mindspring.com>
	<BCD8B15756204D2A8ECE997D3357BEEA@Dell3Gig>
	<12CDA2D9F590448191CE291639EBC4F1@Dell3Gig>
	<238D7A1C552D4EA1BFCC7CC2074C2F4B@Dell3Gig>
	<07BB860985DC4EEF91B5D4C5A6A5541A@Dell3Gig>
	<014E2268C8C94EE39766F0E51CCC62B1@Dell3Gig>
	<0EFA1FD1-AC86-4C8E-81DE-F18240079B46@nationsdial.com>
	<0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>
	<9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610908011605w2514b5b2u881264c430a56e55@mail.gmail.com>

The CoCo Clipboard definitely was published;  at one time I had around six
issues of it.  My recollection is that the issues were around 20
standard-sized pages each, stapled in the middle.  They had reviews and
articles, with maybe a few simple illustrations.  It appeared typed with
reduction (daisy wheel?) rather than typeset.

Art
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Paul Fitch <pfitchjr at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>  I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues intot he database right now,
> and there is an add in the 1st issue for another magazine I never heard of,
> "the Coco Clipboard".  Did this ever get published?  Has anyone scanned
> them
> yet?
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 11:13:10 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] question about FD-501 and coco3
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908011314s52684bf6kd3f990bab0891c06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908011234ga1ff062k9196d8115ee0f521@mail.gmail.com>
	<F71FFF1870CC45F1A120D36A5726C851@Dell3Gig>
	<5d802cd0908011253q14db3b35l92fc769ca1c4cb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908011307o1cbc4591pe02a8fcf026f8143@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908011314s52684bf6kd3f990bab0891c06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908021111530.4853@duo>

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Darren A wrote:

> On 8/1/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>
>> Now I just have to figure out how to make a 28pin DIP socket for dos
>> upgrade.  The schematic search begins...

> Or just purchase a DOS Adapter from Cloud-9:
> <http://www.cloud9tech.com>

Seconded, unless you want to conjur up something very ugly that will 
prevent the top of the cartridge from being present.



-- 


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug  2 14:53:27 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:53:27 -0500
Subject: [Coco] profile pages
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090802134601.05b71ac8@coco3.com>


With pressure from some old friends I grew up with, I now have a 
facebook and myspace page, which turned out to be somewhat of a good 
thing since I'm finding friends I've been unable to find for many 
years, even some ex's.  :-P

http://www.facebook.com/people/Roger-Taylor/100000095752969
http://www.myspace.com/cocotower
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug  2 16:08:15 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:08:15 -0600
Subject: [Coco] another obscure CoCo graphics format
Message-ID: <20090802200815.GC5522@virgo.sdc.org>

This one's so obscure even view doesn't support it! :-)

Deskmate 3 .PIC files seem to be raw 160x200(?) 16-color bitmaps.  No
green bytes or palette data.  I'm not quite sure about the exact
vertical resolution yet.  Probably actually somewhere around 100 or
150 lines.  

Deskmate 3 paint seems to run in a wierd graphics mode.

Anyway, I'm going to try to write something to turn them into vefs.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug  2 16:00:24 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:00:24 -0600
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
Message-ID: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>

...than to believe the Tandy OS-9 manuals.

Just from reading the docs, I was under the impression that, on boot,
OS-9 scanned through all of memory and linked in any modules it
found.  

Should have known it didn't, at least under LII.  That would take a
long time.

But I was wondering if it actually did, as I can see certain useful
applications for this.  So I tested it.

My Setup:  6809 512K CoCo3, NitrOS-9 3.2.6

First, I looked over the output of mmap, and chose block 0x30, as one
unlikely to get clobbered during the boot process.

Used the rsdos command to copy an executable OS-9 module to a DECB
disk.  (cputype, actually.  I wanted something small in case I had to
do this by hand.)  

Rebooted to DECB.

Modified a BASIC program to read the file and LPOKE it into memory
starting at 0x600000.  Another program to LPEEK and print the results
to verify the module is there.

Loaded cputtype in at 0x60000.  Verified it was intact.

Booted NitrOS-9.

Ran mdir.  No cputype.  Link couldn't find it either.

Rebooted to DECB.  cputype still present in block 0x30.

Looked through my disks and found a stock OS-9LII boot disk.  Booted
that.  No cputype.

So, on boot, OS-9LII does NOT scan through all of memory looking for
valid modules.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Sun Aug  2 17:05:02 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:05:02 -0400
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
In-Reply-To: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <4A75FF7E.9030405@steubentech.com>

Thanks for verifying that this is the case. I read that too and thought 
it would be useful to take advantage of that somehow.
I'm hoping that maybe it does indeed look in memory somehow but that 
more than just having the raw module image in a memory location of your 
choosing would be needed, like say also putting a pointer to the module 
at a certain location or having extra header information poked into 
memory with the image or something.




Willard Goosey wrote:
> ...than to believe the Tandy OS-9 manuals.
>
> Just from reading the docs, I was under the impression that, on boot,
> OS-9 scanned through all of memory and linked in any modules it
> found.  
>
> Should have known it didn't, at least under LII.  That would take a
> long time.
>
> But I was wondering if it actually did, as I can see certain useful
> applications for this.  So I tested it.
>
> My Setup:  6809 512K CoCo3, NitrOS-9 3.2.6
>
> First, I looked over the output of mmap, and chose block 0x30, as one
> unlikely to get clobbered during the boot process.
>
> Used the rsdos command to copy an executable OS-9 module to a DECB
> disk.  (cputype, actually.  I wanted something small in case I had to
> do this by hand.)  
>
> Rebooted to DECB.
>
> Modified a BASIC program to read the file and LPOKE it into memory
> starting at 0x600000.  Another program to LPEEK and print the results
> to verify the module is there.
>
> Loaded cputtype in at 0x60000.  Verified it was intact.
>
> Booted NitrOS-9.
>
> Ran mdir.  No cputype.  Link couldn't find it either.
>
> Rebooted to DECB.  cputype still present in block 0x30.
>
> Looked through my disks and found a stock OS-9LII boot disk.  Booted
> that.  No cputype.
>
> So, on boot, OS-9LII does NOT scan through all of memory looking for
> valid modules.
>
> Willard
>   



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug  2 17:28:56 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:28:56 -0600
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
In-Reply-To: <4A75FF7E.9030405@steubentech.com>
References: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A75FF7E.9030405@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <20090802212856.GB10276@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 05:05:02PM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
> Thanks for verifying that this is the case. I read that too and thought 
> it would be useful to take advantage of that somehow.

I was thinking of configuration files for hardware that both BASIC and
OS-9 could use (say, a hard drive or a network thingie (Roger's
bluetooth pak, for example)).  Especially a hard drive, where both OSs
share the resource and need to not stomp on each other's data.  Run a
BASIC program to configure it, and it leaves a module in high RAM.
Boot OS-9, and the module's there, in memory.

> I'm hoping that maybe it does indeed look in memory somehow but that 
> more than just having the raw module image in a memory location of your 
> choosing would be needed, like say also putting a pointer to the module 
> at a certain location or having extra header information poked into 
> memory with the image or something.

Level I might actually do the advertised memory scan, but just of its
64K.  I don't know enough about LI to guess where in that 64K to set
up a module in BASIC so that it wouldn't get clobbered during the boot
process.

Also, it might not be that hard to write a seperate LII utility that
would do the memory scan, and link any modules found into the global
module list.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Sun Aug  2 17:43:10 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:43:10 -0700
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
In-Reply-To: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <E8EC37219ED04BF4A1726F7E4E8AC884@Shasta>

Hi,

It's been a very long time, but I seem to have a memory that the modules 
must be in ROM.

As the CoCo runs OS-9 in RAM only, it may not be good test of the 
impression.

Perhaps the 68 Micro Journal ad's for OS-9 might be a good place to check.

I also believe that OS-9 could be put into a ROM, if my memory from decades 
past is correct.

SHF


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: [Coco] I should know better


> ...than to believe the Tandy OS-9 manuals.
>
> Just from reading the docs, I was under the impression that, on boot,
> OS-9 scanned through all of memory and linked in any modules it
> found.



From twospruces at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 17:56:44 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:56:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

If I understand the drivewire product,

I need to have a switchable EEPROM containing the HDB-DOS image, and
standard DOS, in order to use drivewire AND my floppies.

IE when it is time to access files via PC, reboot the machine with the
drivewire software available in the cartridge, and if I want to use
the floppies, switch back to normal DOS.

Gee, that seems a bit clumsy to me.

>From reading the drivewire documentation, it seems that a drivewire
package was available that loaded from RS-DOS.

To me, that seems like the right thing to do.

The way it stands, if I were to use the "eeprom adapter" to upgrade my
FD-501 with the HDB-DOS image, I end up with a pretty clumsy set up
(assuming I still want to use my floppy drives, which I do) because
HDB-DOS does not support floppies, so I have to switch the eeprom
(which is hidden by the case cover) and reboot.


Do I have an accurate understanding?


Thanks.
Steve


From farna at att.net  Sun Aug  2 19:05:21 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:05:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
Message-ID: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>

Paul, download "Tandy's Little Wonder" from the list site (in the FARNA folder). There is a short article on "CoCo Clipboard" by the publisher in there, including I think dates and how many issues. It was a couple high school kids that started it. 

---------
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:10:46 -0400
From: "Paul Fitch" <pfitchjr at bellsouth.net>

 I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues into the database right now,
and there is an add in the 1st issue for another magazine I never heard of,
"the Coco Clipboard".  Did this ever get published?  Has anyone scanned them
yet?

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 19:23:49 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:23:49 -0600
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908021623h2604562lc040d8efdffd2e01@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/2/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> If I understand the drivewire product,
>
> I need to have a switchable EEPROM containing the HDB-DOS image, and
> standard DOS, in order to use drivewire AND my floppies.
>

No.  HDB-DOS for DriveWire allows you to use both.  For example, if
you have two floppy drives (drives 0 and 1), you can enter the command
DRIVE OFF 1.  This tells HDB-DOS that drives 0 and 1 are real floppy
drives and drives 2-255 are virtual disks in the currently selected
slot on the server. This also prevents you from from being able to
access virtual disks 0 and 1. Entering DRIVE ON disables real floppy
access completely and allows you access virtual disks 0-255.

An unfortunate side effect of this implementation is that when you
want to copy data between a real floppy and a virtual disk, the
virtual disk number must be greater than the highest real floppy drive
number which you have enabled. This means you can't copy directly
between real drive 0 and a typical DSK file which contains only a
single virtual disk. The work-around for this problem is to first copy
virtual disk 0 to a higher numbered virtual disk and then enable the
real floppy drive(s).

That should make it as clear as mud  :)

Darren


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug  2 19:32:50 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:32:50 -0500
Subject: [Coco] EPROM-based boards
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090802181018.05ec06c0@coco3.com>

Hello fellas,

Tomorrow sometime I'll be raising the price of the Wireless RS-232 
Paks back up to cost value or slightly above, as I've been selling 
them below cost for quite a while now.

If you want one for $49, now is the time.  See the coco3.com front page.

I'd also like to try pushing these nice boards out bare or in Do It 
Yourself kits.  For the kits, I'll probably just take each custom 
order and quote back a price based on what parts you want 
included.  That is, if you already have some of the more expensive 
chips or parts that make up a wireless pak, you can use yours and save.

The bare 6551/EPROM boards will be about $10.  A rock-solid durable 
case will be about $8, 6551 will be about $5, and the other chips and 
parts will be cheaper.
I doubt I'll have an order form for this kind of customizing, so I'd 
like to take e-mail orders and return a quote, and if agreed I'll 
e-mail a PDF invoice and accept a PayPal or personal check/MO payment.

You can use these small boards to make wired 6551 paks, game paks, 
wireless bluetooth paks, and various other project boards.
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From twospruces at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 19:52:05 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:52:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908021623h2604562lc040d8efdffd2e01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908021623h2604562lc040d8efdffd2e01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908021652q2770ba71r796ecfdea7309b44@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, ok that's great.  Then I can go with HDB-DOS as a typical use.

I don't quite understand why a disk file .DSK can't be loaded into any
virtual disk slot.

What I'm used to with the 2 emulators, is that you can load a .DSK
file into any of the emulated floppies.

I suppose this detail must be in the docs for HDB-DOS.  I'll start reading.

great news!

Steve

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/2/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If I understand the drivewire product,
>>
>> I need to have a switchable EEPROM containing the HDB-DOS image, and
>> standard DOS, in order to use drivewire AND my floppies.
>>
>
> No. ?HDB-DOS for DriveWire allows you to use both. ?For example, if
> you have two floppy drives (drives 0 and 1), you can enter the command
> DRIVE OFF 1. ?This tells HDB-DOS that drives 0 and 1 are real floppy
> drives and drives 2-255 are virtual disks in the currently selected
> slot on the server. This also prevents you from from being able to
> access virtual disks 0 and 1. Entering DRIVE ON disables real floppy
> access completely and allows you access virtual disks 0-255.
>
> An unfortunate side effect of this implementation is that when you
> want to copy data between a real floppy and a virtual disk, the
> virtual disk number must be greater than the highest real floppy drive
> number which you have enabled. This means you can't copy directly
> between real drive 0 and a typical DSK file which contains only a
> single virtual disk. The work-around for this problem is to first copy
> virtual disk 0 to a higher numbered virtual disk and then enable the
> real floppy drive(s).
>
> That should make it as clear as mud ?:)
>
> Darren
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 20:29:29 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:29:29 -0600
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908021652q2770ba71r796ecfdea7309b44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908021623h2604562lc040d8efdffd2e01@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908021652q2770ba71r796ecfdea7309b44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908021729j7956ae1bm22e4654b9d05aef6@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/2/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>
> I don't quite understand why a disk file .DSK can't be loaded into any
> virtual disk slot.
>
> What I'm used to with the 2 emulators, is that you can load a .DSK
> file into any of the emulated floppies.
>
--

The four slots in the DriveWire server do not correspond to the four
floppy drives supported by standard Disk Basic.  Each slot represents
a virtual hard drive which has the capacity to hold 256 virtual floppy
disks.  Only one of the virtual hard drives is active at a time.  You
use the DRIVE #n command (the # is required) to specify which virtual
hard drive (server slot) is active.

For example If you mount a typical 35 track DSK file in slot 3 of the
server, you cannot access it using a command like DIR 3.  You must
enter DRIVE #3 to tell the system that server slot 3 is the current
virtual hard drive, then DIR 0 will access the first (or only) virtual
floppy disk in that file.

Darren


From twospruces at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 21:04:42 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:04:42 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908021729j7956ae1bm22e4654b9d05aef6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908021623h2604562lc040d8efdffd2e01@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908021652q2770ba71r796ecfdea7309b44@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908021729j7956ae1bm22e4654b9d05aef6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908021804s19f39777je3f4b6b87b2839a9@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I am understanding why OS-9 seems like the right answer for a
lot of users...no limitations I assume on the structure of the hard
drive?

Regardless, for now I just want to use the standard system I/O wise.
thanks for the info.

Steve

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/2/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>
>> I don't quite understand why a disk file .DSK can't be loaded into any
>> virtual disk slot.
>>
>> What I'm used to with the 2 emulators, is that you can load a .DSK
>> file into any of the emulated floppies.
>>
> --
>
> The four slots in the DriveWire server do not correspond to the four
> floppy drives supported by standard Disk Basic. ?Each slot represents
> a virtual hard drive which has the capacity to hold 256 virtual floppy
> disks. ?Only one of the virtual hard drives is active at a time. ?You
> use the DRIVE #n command (the # is required) to specify which virtual
> hard drive (server slot) is active.
>
> For example If you mount a typical 35 track DSK file in slot 3 of the
> server, you cannot access it using a command like DIR 3. ?You must
> enter DRIVE #3 to tell the system that server slot 3 is the current
> virtual hard drive, then DIR 0 will access the first (or only) virtual
> floppy disk in that file.
>
> Darren
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug  2 21:31:43 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:31:43 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908021804s19f39777je3f4b6b87b2839a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908021729j7956ae1bm22e4654b9d05aef6@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908021804s19f39777je3f4b6b87b2839a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908022131.43211.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 02 August 2009, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>I guess I am understanding why OS-9 seems like the right answer for a
>lot of users...no limitations I assume on the structure of the hard
>drive?
>
There are some restrictions, most caused by the 64k limit to the size of the 
file allocation table which starts at LSN1 of the drive.  Because it runs out 
of bits to represent each individual sector at about 131 megabytes, for larger 
drives it is required to change the size of the cluster that a bit represents, 
to 2, 4, etc in powers of 2 increments.  Each such increment doubles the size 
of the drive that can be handled.  The tradeoff is that the minimum allocation 
also grows.  To 2 sectors, then 4, 8 etc.

I haven't personally found this to be a problem in actual usage.  My drive is 
a 1GB seagate on a tc^3 interface.

Where there has been a problem, it is more generally going to be related to 
the 'SAS' value in the descriptor, and small values such as the default of 8, 
can and have been used up because the FD.SEG section of a files descriptor 
sector only has room for 48 entries.

I have made some noise in past years that this SAS value should be defaulted 
to at least 20 (it is a hex value, so that is 32 actual) in order to conserve 
this resource, and to speed up floppy writes too as that reduces the number of 
re-seeks that must be done in order to allocate the space to write the file 
to.  If doing really big files, I have been known to temporarily set SAS to 
FF.  This does no harm as the allocation will be reduced to the actual size of 
the file when the file is closed, and the next allocation request will start 
with the next available cluster that is SAS size in contiguous space.

>Regardless, for now I just want to use the standard system I/O wise.
>thanks for the info.
>
>Steve
>
>On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/2/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>> I don't quite understand why a disk file .DSK can't be loaded into any
>>> virtual disk slot.
>>>
>>> What I'm used to with the 2 emulators, is that you can load a .DSK
>>> file into any of the emulated floppies.
>>
>> --
>>
>> The four slots in the DriveWire server do not correspond to the four
>> floppy drives supported by standard Disk Basic.  Each slot represents
>> a virtual hard drive which has the capacity to hold 256 virtual floppy
>> disks.  Only one of the virtual hard drives is active at a time.  You
>> use the DRIVE #n command (the # is required) to specify which virtual
>> hard drive (server slot) is active.
>>
>> For example If you mount a typical 35 track DSK file in slot 3 of the
>> server, you cannot access it using a command like DIR 3.  You must
>> enter DRIVE #3 to tell the system that server slot 3 is the current
>> virtual hard drive, then DIR 0 will access the first (or only) virtual
>> floppy disk in that file.
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

I think it's a new feature.  Don't tell anyone it was an accident.  :-)
         -- Larry Wall on s/foo/bar/eieio in <10911 at jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug  2 21:40:53 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:40:53 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
Message-ID: <3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>

Thanks Frank. I have that book.  I'm pretty sure I bought one of your hard
copies long, long ago.

I'm not sure it will help tho, as I am physically looking at each article I
input and keying in sort codes, ie Coco1/2, Coco3, Hardware, Software, ECB,
DECB, OS-9, Flex, ASM, Basic09, Forth, Pascal, ect...

The goal is to open the database, ask it about Coco3 Hardware Projects &
DECB and have it produce a list of articals in magazines available on Malted
Medias site which can be downloaded.  As I have already downloaded all the
scanned mags there, I have a lot of material to work with.  Its my hope that
my "where are these" messages will let those with missing issues in hardcopy
form know they need to be scanned and uploaded.

Right now the available PDF/DEjaVU'd mags comes to about 16 gigs.  As 32gig
flash drives are very affordable right now, you can put the ENTIRE COCO
library, all the software disk images, manuals, and emulators on the flash
drive, plug into ANY intel machine, and off you go.  I just think thats too
cool.

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Frank Swygert
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 7:05 PM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
> Paul, download "Tandy's Little Wonder" from the list site (in 
> the FARNA folder). There is a short article on "CoCo 
> Clipboard" by the publisher in there, including I think dates 
> and how many issues. It was a couple high school kids that 
> started it. 
> 
> ---------
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:10:46 -0400
> From: "Paul Fitch" <pfitchjr at bellsouth.net>
> 
>  I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues into the 
> database right now, and there is an add in the 1st issue for 
> another magazine I never heard of, "the Coco Clipboard".  Did 
> this ever get published?  Has anyone scanned them yet?
> 
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> (free download available!)
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From twospruces at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 22:15:06 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:15:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] some basic Nirtos9 questions....
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908021915t40c4dc9k98a94990f2b05a6d@mail.gmail.com>

OK, stupid question time..

Do all coco software applications still run when you use Nitros-9?

I guess the main ROM is still callable, or is it?  How do you write
BASIC programs?

Do all the games still work?  what about utilities and applications?

thanks, Steve


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug  2 23:09:36 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:09:36 -0600
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
In-Reply-To: <E8EC37219ED04BF4A1726F7E4E8AC884@Shasta>
References: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
	<E8EC37219ED04BF4A1726F7E4E8AC884@Shasta>
Message-ID: <20090803030936.GA29216@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:43:10PM -0700, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
> It's been a very long time, but I seem to have a memory that the modules 
> must be in ROM.
> 
> As the CoCo runs OS-9 in RAM only, it may not be good test of the 
> impression.

Heh, yeah, that's not a useful combination of factors, is it? :-)

> I also believe that OS-9 could be put into a ROM, if my memory from decades 
> past is correct.

Cloud9 sells the kit.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug  2 23:20:42 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:20:42 -0600
Subject: [Coco] dm3 Paint .pic files
Message-ID: <20090803032042.GC29216@virgo.sdc.org>

I'm sure no one here will be surprised to learn I was wrong about the
Deskmate 3 PAINT files.  

They are 160x175 16-color bitmaps, and they do indeed have palette
information, starting at 0x3700.  Then there's some other data, but I
don't know what it might be.  Maybe just junk bytes.

Anyway, I'm pretty much happy with my PIC2VEF converter for them.
Give me a couple of days to make a nice lha and tranfer it to a
networked computer, and I'll upload it to the CoCo ftp sites.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 08:47:36 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:47:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Another dumb question-

A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
(720k) disk into the drive, right?

So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.   The disk drive
will operate correctly. (?)

Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.

I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
selects...no twisted cables.

thanks, Steve


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 08:51:14 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:51:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] observation
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>

I must say,

Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
compatibility and set up.

Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
up the Coco!

thanks, Steve


From farna at att.net  Mon Aug  3 08:46:44 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:46:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
Message-ID: <4A76DC34.4000906@att.net>

No, it won't help, just give you a background of "CoCo Clipboard" is all. I'm pretty sure it's in the original, the only articles I modified for the second edition were "support" and "vendor" type articles, and I deleted all of the ads since the products are no longer available. Cloud-9 and many CoCo web sites were added in the "support" section though. 

-------
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:40:53 -0400
From: "Paul Fitch" <pfitchjr at bellsouth.net>

Thanks Frank. I have that book.  I'm pretty sure I bought one of your hard
copies long, long ago.

I'm not sure it will help tho, as I am physically looking at each article I
input and keying in sort codes, ie Coco1/2, Coco3, Hardware, Software, ECB,
DECB, OS-9, Flex, ASM, Basic09, Forth, Pascal, ect...

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From mdelyea at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 09:09:37 2009
From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:09:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b52e6c80908030609v5dcbf31cuedd22dd7fe1b6bda@mail.gmail.com>

Not exactly.  You can use dmode to set the drives parameters to be a
720k double sided drive, otherwise the drive behaves as a 160k single
sided drive.  You have to change the typ, cyl, sid parameters (type,
cylinders, sides), and probably the stepping rate for faster
operation.  I don't remember the actual settings for a 720k drive,
I'll have to look them up.  Once you've got the drive setup properly
you can use cobbler to make a new boot disk that keeps the drives
parameters for the next time you boot, else you'll be using dmode
everytime you boot.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Stephen Adolph<twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Another dumb question-
>
> A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
> (720k) disk into the drive, right?
>
> So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
> it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies. ? The disk drive
> will operate correctly. (?)
>
> Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
> JU-257. ?Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.
>
> I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
> selects...no twisted cables.
>
> thanks, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug  3 10:00:04 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:00:04 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908031000.04835.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 03 August 2009, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Another dumb question-
>
>A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
>(720k) disk into the drive, right?
>
Generally, yes.  Unforch, finding DD disks can be frustrating.  Taping over 
the HD hole usually doesn't work as the switch in record drive currents then 
results in a weak recording, one that may or may not be readable an hour 
later.

>So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
>it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.   The disk drive
>will operate correctly. (?)

If the descriptor is properly dmoded for 720k, usually yes.

>Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonic
>JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.
>
>I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
>selects...no twisted cables.

That is best.  The drive cable adapters can, if all traces are there, be where 
the drive select signals are swapped around, allowing one of the fixed at 
drive 1 drives to be used as 0 or 2.  Terminations on 3.5" drives could be a 
problem too, and one should check to see if the pc's twisted cable also 
somehow enables the terminators for drive 0, out on the twisted end of the 
cable.  Its not something I have attempted here, my drive 0 is a 5.25, 360k 
drive, 2 is a 720k 5.25, and one is whatever is plugged in at the time, boot 
default for drive 1 is a 720k here.

>thanks, Steve
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The people rule.



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug  3 10:01:29 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:01:29 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <1b52e6c80908030609v5dcbf31cuedd22dd7fe1b6bda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908030609v5dcbf31cuedd22dd7fe1b6bda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908031001.30024.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 03 August 2009, mike delyea wrote:
>Not exactly.  You can use dmode to set the drives parameters to be a
>720k double sided drive, otherwise the drive behaves as a 160k single
>sided drive.  You have to change the typ, cyl, sid parameters (type,
>cylinders, sides), and probably the stepping rate for faster
>operation.  I don't remember the actual settings for a 720k drive,
>I'll have to look them up.  Once you've got the drive setup properly
>you can use cobbler to make a new boot disk that keeps the drives
>parameters for the next time you boot, else you'll be using dmode
>everytime you boot.
>
Or one could add the dmode command to the startup file. :)

>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Stephen Adolph<twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Another dumb question-
>>
>> A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
>> (720k) disk into the drive, right?
>>
>> So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
>> it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.   The disk drive
>> will operate correctly. (?)
>>
>> Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
>> JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.
>>
>> I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
>> selects...no twisted cables.
>>
>> thanks, Steve
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

A fair exterior is a silent recommendation.
		-- Publilius Syrus



From jcewy at swbell.net  Mon Aug  3 09:55:07 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:55:07 -0500
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A76EC3B.7030907@swbell.net>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I must say,
>
> Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
> suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
> offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
> compatibility and set up.
>
> Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
> missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
> up the Coco!
>   
I think Allen Huffman's CoCopedia Wiki is a good start.  Completely 
exhaustive?  Not yet.  But if people are willing to contribute the 
information they have it can be a valuable resource.

http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

JCE
> thanks, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   



From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 10:04:36 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] nitros-9 support
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908030704g58330cbx4f1e63947b00979a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

NITROS-9 web site does not have all that much information.

Site mentions a wiki on sourceforge, but it's not really a wiki is it?
 Where is all the wiki stuff?

So,

Where can I get the information I need to be able to-

1) select compatible floppy drives for NITROS-9
2) install said floppies in my FD-501 enclosure, such that they are
compatible with NITROS-9

and finally,

3) I'm wondering if I am writing to the correct forum.  Is there a
better place to go to get user support for COCO?

thanks,
Steve


From wb8tyw at qsl.net  Mon Aug  3 09:48:41 2009
From: wb8tyw at qsl.net (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:48:41 -0500
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h56prp$nqu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I must say,
> 
> Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
> suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
> offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
> compatibility and set up.

The COCO can use up to 3 industry standard double sided double density 
5.25 or 3.5 inch floppy drives.  High density 3.5 inch drives will work 
in 720K mode.  The industry standard was set long before anyone heard of 
an IBM PC.

1.2M floppy drives do not fully support writing 320 K floppies, but 
should be usable to read them on a COCO, if you are just trying to copy 
disks to some other media.

There is a hardware mode for the oldest controller that alleges to allow 
it to work with hi-density 5.25 drives and presumably 3.5 inch drives in 
high density mode.

8 inch floppies require some more hardware hacks similar to the 5.25 
hi-density drives.

> Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
> missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
> up the Coco!

Sorry, I do not have any bookmarks handy.  Floppy information used to be 
generally known and available until the PC documentation dumbed it down.

-John
wb8tyw at qsl.net
Personal Opinion Only



From wb8tyw at qsl.net  Mon Aug  3 09:38:42 2009
From: wb8tyw at qsl.net (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:38:42 -0500
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h56p93$lo4$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Another dumb question-

Not dumb, but if there is a COCO Hardware FAQ it belongs on it.

> A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
> (720k) disk into the drive, right?

As long as it is a real 720K disk and not a 1.44M disk formatted as 720K.

> So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
> it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.   The disk drive
> will operate correctly. (?)

Yes.[1]  It will even work with ROM Disk Basic up to the capacity that 
Disk Basic recognizes, provided you have Disk Basic format the disks.

If you use a 512 sector (MS-DOS default) and Windows hard coded value, 
the ROM disk basic reads and writes the 512 bytes, however the first 256 
bytes goes/comes where the ROM expects, and the second 256 bytes of the 
sector is read/written from the verify buffers.  So it is possible to 
use a PC to read and write files to that a COCO disk can read with the 
right program.

If you have a PC running MS-DOS 6 or earlier, it can read and write 256 
byte sector floppies.  That API was removed from later versions of Windows.

> Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
> JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.

Cost saving measure.  All IBM PC clones only use a 3.5 inch floppy wired 
as drive 0, and use the cable twist to make it drive 1.  (It has been a 
while since I looked at it, and I could have that reversed, and I seem 
to remember that on a PC all floppies are configured to be drive 1.)

Apparently someone thought that having the assembler set the drive 
number result in too many cases of them setting it wrong.

Originally PCs had 2 5.25 drives, both configured as the same drive #, 
and the twist was used to change it.  When 3.5 inch drives were added, 
the convention was still followed.

> I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
> selects...no twisted cables.

The twisted cable just swaps the drive select 0 and 1, so depending on 
your configuration, you may or may not need it.

You can actually put 3 floppies on a floppy cable and they should be 
supported by all OS's on the COCO.

What ROM basic uses as the drive select for the 4th floppy is the side 
select line for double sided floppies.

[1]The older drives had termination resistors that either had to be 
added or removed.  The newer drives use auto-termination logic.  For 
energy saving / chip heat saving, you want to make sure that the floppy 
farthest from the controller has termination (either auto or resisters), 
and the others are either auto-terminating or have the resisters removed.

-John
wb8tyw at qsl.net
Personal Opinion Only



From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  3 09:56:26 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:56:26 +0100
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090803145626.12122tanjbdyw60w@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Quoting Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com>:

> Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
> JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.
>
> I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
> selects...no twisted cables.

Note assume drives are numbered 0..3, so 0=first, 1=second etc.

If you have a drive that is intended for the PC and therefore  
perminently set as drive 1, you can use it as drive 1 in the CoCo. If  
you wish to use 2 PC drives, you will need a cable with a twist, but  
not a PC cable, the twist needs to be I believe pins 10-12. With this  
done you can use 2 PC drives as drives 0 and 1 on the CoCo (or most  
other machines that expects jumpered drives, I have used this on my  
Dragons, BBC Micros etc without problems).

Cheers.

Phill.


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Mon Aug  3 10:17:33 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:17:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] profile pages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090802134601.05b71ac8@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090802134601.05b71ac8@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200908031017.33380.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

On Sunday 02 August 2009 14:53:27 Roger Taylor wrote:
> With pressure from some old friends I grew up with, I now have a
> facebook and myspace page, which turned out to be somewhat of a good
> thing since I'm finding friends I've been unable to find for many
> years, even some ex's.  :-P
>
> http://www.facebook.com/people/Roger-Taylor/100000095752969
> http://www.myspace.com/cocotower
 Well.... now I know what you look like 8-)



From farna at att.net  Mon Aug  3 11:37:56 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:37:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] observation
Message-ID: <4A770454.2070007@att.net>

As it is with most any internet source, though some are more organized than others. For basic information your best bet is to download "Tandy's Little Wonder" from ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/Farna/Tandy's Little Wonder/. The only file you need is Cocobook-TLW2.pdf, though you might want to read the READ ME FIRST.txt file. There is a section in there on just setting up a CoCo from a beginner's perspective as well as comprehensive info on most CoCo subjects and a whole lot of history. 

-----------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:51:14 -0400
From: Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com>

Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
compatibility and set up.

Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
up the Coco!

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From os9dude at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 11:50:53 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:50:53 -0400
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580908030850i7dd9030fs9793a6b6b1c25130@mail.gmail.com>

It has been a while since the CoCo FAQ has been circulated... on and off I
have been looking for the latest edition to start that thing again, most
likely needs updating to bring it up to speed.

No FAQ will give it all, but at least provide for an organized starting
point.


-- Rogelio



On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:

> I must say,
>
> Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
> suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
> offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
> compatibility and set up.
>
> Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
> missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
> up the Coco!
>
> thanks, Steve


From alsplace at pobox.com  Mon Aug  3 11:52:31 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:52:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <5631e580908030850i7dd9030fs9793a6b6b1c25130@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<5631e580908030850i7dd9030fs9793a6b6b1c25130@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <136B910C-AD67-4BC3-ABB1-9A6CEE8AB40C@pobox.com>

Should we build the FAQ at www.cocopedia.com ?

Sent from my iPhone 3GS
Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
Stalk me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/allenhuffman
http://twitter.com/atthefaire - AtTheFaire.com
http://twitter.com/disneyfanscom - DisneyFans.com
http://twitter.com/dmrenfaire - Des Moines Ren Faire
http://twitter.com/festint - Iowa/Nebraska Ren/Pirate Fests

On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Rogelio Perea <os9dude at gmail.com> wrote:

> It has been a while since the CoCo FAQ has been circulated... on and  
> off I
> have been looking for the latest edition to start that thing again,  
> most
> likely needs updating to bring it up to speed.
>
> No FAQ will give it all, but at least provide for an organized  
> starting
> point.
>
>
> -- Rogelio
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Stephen Adolph  
> <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I must say,
>>
>> Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
>> suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
>> offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand  
>> floppy
>> compatibility and set up.
>>
>> Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
>> missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
>> up the Coco!
>>
>> thanks, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  3 12:15:32 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <5631e580908030850i7dd9030fs9793a6b6b1c25130@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<5631e580908030850i7dd9030fs9793a6b6b1c25130@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <794953.21205.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I think we all need to make more of an effort to get it all organized in the CoCo wiki. Also, a searchable index of Rainbow articles will make relevant info much easier to find, once that is done.

My website includes an archive of Paul DiMarni's FAQ, whicfh I think I tried to add to the wiki at one time. 
Currently I'm getting ready to move my site from Geocities since it is shutting down. Will

Bob
www.geocities.com/theother_bob



----- Original Message ----
From: Rogelio Perea <os9dude at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 10:50:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] observation

It has been a while since the CoCo FAQ has been circulated... on and off I
have been looking for the latest edition to start that thing again, most
likely needs updating to bring it up to speed.

No FAQ will give it all, but at least provide for an organized starting
point.


-- Rogelio



On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:

> I must say,
>
> Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it seems that is
> suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No
> offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to understand floppy
> compatibility and set up.
>
> Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've
> missed it, please point me to the best places to learn about setting
> up the Coco!
>
> thanks, Steve

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From petrander at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:58:38 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:58:38 +0200
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640907312115r6fb5f61fw26b256003c27db1e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220907310042o795158cdwafd0c7e9ecb2ce3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<9efa17da0907310754m35fe23e0ta67392641b867b86@mail.gmail.com>
	<e44ad6640907312115r6fb5f61fw26b256003c27db1e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dcc956220908030958i1f63fd9am908c68a2bb5a3bb7@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm.... Something about the numbers is messed up now! I went from 130
points to 26??? Are the counts reset at regular intervals?

2009/8/1 Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>

> If you let me know which code listings are difficult like that, I
> might be able to get a better scan.
> I have had great success with Abby Fine in its "BASIC" recognition
> mode on the online Rainbows
> found at maltedmedia.   If it worked I could just paste in the text.
> Might save some time.
> -Aaron
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Sean<badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was having fun until I got a code-checking one, almost every 'M' was
> > turned into an 'H', no '=' was correct, along with many, many, many
> > other OCR errors.
> > I'd be amazed if I actually got them all.  That one hurt!
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Fedor Steeman<petrander at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Regarding Tom Lindner's excellent Rainbow digitization system: I thought
> a
> >> little competition would not harm. In any case it is a great idea with
> the
> >> top contributor list!
> >>
> >> I have now crept up into the top 3 and gaining in on 68.151.107.163
> followed
> >> by Robert. It won't be long until I am number two! :-) :-)
> >>
> >> See if y'all can beat that score, suckers! MUHAHAHA!! Hasta la vista!
> >>
> >> Fedor
> >>
> >> --
> >> Coco mailing list
> >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Mon Aug  3 13:03:47 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:03:47 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about file transfers from PC
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908021456r6a564bcfwe68a1f5c023b3021@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A771873.9000102@steubentech.com>

Drivewire 2.0 came with a floppy disk and a basic program you could run 
to make a version of hdb-dos that you could loadm and exec to get 
drivewire to work without any roms and a real disk drive. I find that 
you can still use this version of hdb-dos for DECB but not for booting 
OS9. if all you want to do is copy disks back and forth that might be 
your answer if it is still possible to buy the drivewire 2.0 software by 
special request.  it does work with drivewire 3.0 server but a coco3 
works at coco2 speed instead.

I think it would be nice if they made the drivewire 2.0 floppy image 
available for people in your situation that don't need to boot into os9 
from drivewire.




Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> If I understand the drivewire product,
>
> I need to have a switchable EEPROM containing the HDB-DOS image, and
> standard DOS, in order to use drivewire AND my floppies.
>
> IE when it is time to access files via PC, reboot the machine with the
> drivewire software available in the cartridge, and if I want to use
> the floppies, switch back to normal DOS.
>
> Gee, that seems a bit clumsy to me.
>
> >From reading the drivewire documentation, it seems that a drivewire
> package was available that loaded from RS-DOS.
>
> To me, that seems like the right thing to do.
>
> The way it stands, if I were to use the "eeprom adapter" to upgrade my
> FD-501 with the HDB-DOS image, I end up with a pretty clumsy set up
> (assuming I still want to use my floppy drives, which I do) because
> HDB-DOS does not support floppies, so I have to switch the eeprom
> (which is hidden by the case cover) and reboot.
>
>
> Do I have an accurate understanding?
>
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>   



From tlindner at macmess.org  Mon Aug  3 13:55:53 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:55:53 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <dcc956220908030958i1f63fd9am908c68a2bb5a3bb7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220907310042o795158cdwafd0c7e9ecb2ce3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<9efa17da0907310754m35fe23e0ta67392641b867b86@mail.gmail.com>
	<e44ad6640907312115r6fb5f61fw26b256003c27db1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc956220908030958i1f63fd9am908c68a2bb5a3bb7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b0704c10908031055w391bf54bq2c535902352cc5e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Fedor Steeman<petrander at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm.... Something about the numbers is messed up now! I went from 130
> points to 26??? Are the counts reset at regular intervals?

Yes they are. Only the last four days are tallied.

The idea is to keep people motivated. :)

-- 
tim lindner


From dml_68 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  3 15:12:38 2009
From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <881751.82727.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I put in a 1.44MB 3.5" Drive inline with my FD-501 5.25" drive and I am able to use 1.44MB disks just fine. I dont get 1.44MB storage but when I do a dskini on the 1.44Mb Disks they work fine and have for me for the past 2 years or so. I actually also use Darren's disk utility for XP and format them for 80 tracks and also write disk images to them directly and never had a problem.




** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **


 

--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com>
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 5:47 AM

Hi,

Another dumb question-

A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
(720k) disk into the drive, right?

So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.???The disk drive
will operate correctly. (?)

Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonicn
JU-257.? Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.

I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive
selects...no twisted cables.

thanks, Steve

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From dml_68 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  3 15:13:50 2009
From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:13:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] dm3 Paint .pic files
In-Reply-To: <20090803032042.GC29216@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <136074.75977.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Please do let us know. I have been making some disks with images and viewing them on my coco3 so this would be helpful.



** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **


 

--- On Sun, 8/2/09, Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:

From: Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
Subject: [Coco] dm3 Paint .pic files
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:20 PM

I'm sure no one here will be surprised to learn I was wrong about the
Deskmate 3 PAINT files.? 

They are 160x175 16-color bitmaps, and they do indeed have palette
information, starting at 0x3700.? Then there's some other data, but I
don't know what it might be.? Maybe just junk bytes.

Anyway, I'm pretty much happy with my PIC2VEF converter for them.
Give me a couple of days to make a nice lha and tranfer it to a
networked computer, and I'll upload it to the CoCo ftp sites.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey? goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
? -- R.E. Howard

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug  3 15:30:16 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:30:16 -0600
Subject: [Coco] dm3 Paint .pic files
In-Reply-To: <136074.75977.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20090803032042.GC29216@virgo.sdc.org>
	<136074.75977.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090803193016.GA22763@virgo.sdc.org>

On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:13:50PM -0700, Derek wrote:
> Please do let us know. I have been making some disks with images and
> viewing them on my coco3 so this would be helpful.

Certainly.  I thought I had it ready, but, thinking about it, I do
believe I may have a bug. :-(

Let me play with it a little more.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:13:32 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:13:32 -0400
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I've made some progress.
* I made 2 Nitros-9 disks using an old pc and a 360k drive
* I got my coco3 to boot Nitros-9
* I've fiddled with my drive settings with reasonable success

have not yet played with 3.5 inch drives,

But, I am struggling right now with why I would go to Nitros-9--

* disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
* so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in Nitros-9

But, as someone pointed out, HDB-DOS is available as a .DSK for
Nitros-9, making it a bit easier to use HDB-DOS that it is for an
RS-DOS system (or DECB system?).

Making .DSKs is a pain in the neck when you don't have a dedicated
machine with an appropriate floppy installed, ... and you don't (yet)
have HDB-DOS to help you.

cheers, Steve


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Mon Aug  3 16:34:24 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:34:24 -0700
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta>

Hi,

> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9

Wrong. You just need the proper disk driver, I assume that NitrOS-9 has this 
already.

Then you need the proper program. I used sdisk so someone else will have to 
supply the name.

> * so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in 
> Nitros-9

Again wrong, others can supply the details. I am talking about a real CoCo 3 
system so virtual disks have to be transferred to a real floppy.

I have one 5 - 1/4" drive and one 3.5" drive in my system and with a toggle 
switch can change which drive is /D0 and which drive is /D1.

With two identical OS-9 boot disks, one a  5 - 1/4" disk and one 3.5" disk, 
I can even swap drives when OS-9 is running.

I have many pairs of disks identical except for the size.

My floppy drives have the jumpers for drive selection, that might be hard 
with a 3.5" drive that does not.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:13 PM
Subject: [Coco] some progress...


> Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I've made some progress.
> * I made 2 Nitros-9 disks using an old pc and a 360k drive
> * I got my coco3 to boot Nitros-9
> * I've fiddled with my drive settings with reasonable success
>
> have not yet played with 3.5 inch drives,
>
> But, I am struggling right now with why I would go to Nitros-9--
>
> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
> * so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in 
> Nitros-9
>
> But, as someone pointed out, HDB-DOS is available as a .DSK for
> Nitros-9, making it a bit easier to use HDB-DOS that it is for an
> RS-DOS system (or DECB system?).
>
> Making .DSKs is a pain in the neck when you don't have a dedicated
> machine with an appropriate floppy installed, ... and you don't (yet)
> have HDB-DOS to help you.
>
> cheers, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:43:48 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:43:48 -0600
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908031343r418f0895hb6119e314020fc97@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/3/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I've made some progress.
>
> But, I am struggling right now with why I would go to Nitros-9--
>
> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
> * so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in Nitros-9
>

You do know that NitrOS-9 (OS-9) is a completely separate environment
from the Basic interpreter in ROM (RSDOS), right?

Under NitrOS-9, the ROM is out of the picture and you are in a
multi-tasking, unix-like operating system with a command shell.  The
file system used under NitrOS-9 is not compatible with RSDOS.  When
you want to use the Basic interpreter or run programs on an RSDOS
disk, you don't boot into NitrOS-9.

Darren


From badfrog at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:49:32 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:49:32 -0500
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
	<687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0908031349u43e21926pa6002b1907ca09bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Stephen H.
Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
>
> Wrong. You just need the proper disk driver, I assume that NitrOS-9 has this
> already.
>
> Then you need the proper program. I used sdisk so someone else will have to
> supply the name.
>

I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
RSDOS disks.  It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'.  Can't remember
for sure.


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:28:58 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:28:58 -0400
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908031343r418f0895hb6119e314020fc97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908031343r418f0895hb6119e314020fc97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031428l50093078kcfc1697e775b1864@mail.gmail.com>

yes I am aware that the OS is different.

There are a lot of applications for coco written for the base machine however.

It  looks to me like you give up on those applications.

For example - can I still use EDTASM if I am currently running a
Nitros-9 system?

Or are you forever just switching back and forth, to suit the task at
hand?  Sounds like that is the case.


cheers.

..Steve



On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/3/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>> Thanks for all the helpful comments. ?I've made some progress.
>>
>> But, I am struggling right now with why I would go to Nitros-9--
>>
>> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
>> * so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in Nitros-9
>>
>
> You do know that NitrOS-9 (OS-9) is a completely separate environment
> from the Basic interpreter in ROM (RSDOS), right?
>
> Under NitrOS-9, the ROM is out of the picture and you are in a
> multi-tasking, unix-like operating system with a command shell. ?The
> file system used under NitrOS-9 is not compatible with RSDOS. ?When
> you want to use the Basic interpreter or run programs on an RSDOS
> disk, you don't boot into NitrOS-9.
>
> Darren
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:29:32 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:29:32 -0400
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0908031349u43e21926pa6002b1907ca09bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
	<687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta>
	<9efa17da0908031349u43e21926pa6002b1907ca09bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031429x5c0fb146o8e4a1d9b1dea9020@mail.gmail.com>

thanks I'll read some more.
I tried changing the drive paramters, but of course the directory info
is in the wrong track too.

Steve

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Sean<badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Stephen H.
> Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
>>
>> Wrong. You just need the proper disk driver, I assume that NitrOS-9 has this
>> already.
>>
>> Then you need the proper program. I used sdisk so someone else will have to
>> supply the name.
>>
>
> I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
> RSDOS disks. ?It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'. ?Can't remember
> for sure.
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:37:52 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:37:52 -0600
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031428l50093078kcfc1697e775b1864@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908031343r418f0895hb6119e314020fc97@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908031428l50093078kcfc1697e775b1864@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908031437r7f0e91e3p2fd194c220ab0068@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/3/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> yes I am aware that the OS is different.
>
> There are a lot of applications for coco written for the base machine
> however.
>
> It  looks to me like you give up on those applications.
>
> For example - can I still use EDTASM if I am currently running a
> Nitros-9 system?

You don't boot into NitrOS-9 if you want to run EDTASM. You startup
the disk version of EDTASM from within Disk Basic.


> Or are you forever just switching back and forth, to suit the task at
> hand?  Sounds like that is the case.
>

That is correct.

Darren


From devries.bob at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:33:25 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:33:25 +1000
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B00E0DC2D43F4B4D8D49271D5BAA33AD@master>

There is an OS-9/NitrOS9 programme called RSDos and/or RSDos Plus which will 
read and write the RSDos (disk basic) floppies.

It's available on RTSI

--
Regards, Bob Devries, Dalby, Queensland, Australia

Isaiah 50:4 The sovereign Lord has given me
the capacity to be his spokesman,
so that I know how to help the weary.

my blog: http://bdevries.invigorated.org/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:13 AM
Subject: [Coco] some progress...


> Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I've made some progress.
> * I made 2 Nitros-9 disks using an old pc and a 360k drive
> * I got my coco3 to boot Nitros-9
> * I've fiddled with my drive settings with reasonable success
>
> have not yet played with 3.5 inch drives,
>
> But, I am struggling right now with why I would go to Nitros-9--
>
> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in Nitros-9
> * so, software on RS-DOS disks and virtual disks are not usable in 
> Nitros-9
>
> But, as someone pointed out, HDB-DOS is available as a .DSK for
> Nitros-9, making it a bit easier to use HDB-DOS that it is for an
> RS-DOS system (or DECB system?).
>
> Making .DSKs is a pain in the neck when you don't have a dedicated
> machine with an appropriate floppy installed, ... and you don't (yet)
> have HDB-DOS to help you.
>
> cheers, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Mon Aug  3 18:03:30 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:03:30 -0700
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031429x5c0fb146o8e4a1d9b1dea9020@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com><687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta><9efa17da0908031349u43e21926pa6002b1907ca09bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908031429x5c0fb146o8e4a1d9b1dea9020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5647CDB7A9714AE783FA3D38541BDA86@Shasta>

Hi,

OS-9 is very flexable, in fact you can read and write "FLEX" disks just like
"DECB" disks using the special program.  I have done both, well, I just read
the "FLEX" disks but I often read / wrote "DECB" disks as I was using my own
version of "SLED" for the editing of a "DECB" program.

But all the program does is to transfer files from "FLEX" or "DECB" disks to
OS-9 files or the reverse.

> There are a lot of applications for coco written for the base machine
> however.
> It  looks to me like you give up on those applications.

Some "DECB" programs can be run using a special program running on OS-9.

> Or are you forever just switching back and forth, to suit the task at
> hand?  Sounds like that is the case.

Yes, some "DECB" programs cannot be run at all.

What someone did was to patch "DECB" to be able to run under OS-9.

Both my floppy drives were 80 Track 2 Sided.

The descriptors were set up for 80T 2S but once a OS-9 floppy is formatted
with a lesser track / side count, OS-9 will recognize and read the OS-9
floppy just fine.

I often read OS-9 35T 1S disks this way.

For some of the lesser floppy OS-9 formats I used sformat, part of the sdisk
package.

The utilities for the standard floppy driver can not do all that sdisk 's
sformat can do.

Thus I sometimes had to boot with an OS-9 system disk with sdisk.

Other times, the standard OS-9 boot disk was used.

> I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
> RSDOS disks. It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'. Can't remember
> for sure.

That's the name of one of the programs I believe.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] some progress...


thanks I'll read some more.
I tried changing the drive paramters, but of course the directory info
is in the wrong track too.

Steve

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Sean<badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Stephen H.
> Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in
>>> Nitros-9
>>
>> Wrong. You just need the proper disk driver, I assume that NitrOS-9 has
>> this
>> already.
>>
>> Then you need the proper program. I used sdisk so someone else will have
>> to
>> supply the name.
>>
>
> I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
> RSDOS disks. It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'. Can't remember
> for sure.
>



From lothan at newsguy.com  Mon Aug  3 17:38:05 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:38:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] I should know better
In-Reply-To: <E8EC37219ED04BF4A1726F7E4E8AC884@Shasta>
References: <20090802200024.GB5522@virgo.sdc.org>
	<E8EC37219ED04BF4A1726F7E4E8AC884@Shasta>
Message-ID: <D8E09FDDF024406392B99ED297BF5F62@Crossfire>

I think you're right regarding the modules in ROM, but I never got beyond 
putting OS9Boot in the ROM of one of Bruce Isted's hard drive controllers. I 
always kept the kernel and other modules in the bootable area of the hard 
drive to make it easier to update.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Stephen H. Fischer" <SFischer1 at Mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 5:43 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] I should know better

> Hi,
>
> It's been a very long time, but I seem to have a memory that the modules 
> must be in ROM.
>
> As the CoCo runs OS-9 in RAM only, it may not be good test of the 
> impression.
>
> Perhaps the 68 Micro Journal ad's for OS-9 might be a good place to check.
>
> I also believe that OS-9 could be put into a ROM, if my memory from 
> decades past is correct.
>
> SHF
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:00 PM
> Subject: [Coco] I should know better
>
>
>> ...than to believe the Tandy OS-9 manuals.
>>
>> Just from reading the docs, I was under the impression that, on boot,
>> OS-9 scanned through all of memory and linked in any modules it
>> found.
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:11:35 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:11:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <5647CDB7A9714AE783FA3D38541BDA86@Shasta>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
	<687E8C9BCF9946B9B5B65E1059ECAF7B@Shasta>
	<9efa17da0908031349u43e21926pa6002b1907ca09bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908031429x5c0fb146o8e4a1d9b1dea9020@mail.gmail.com>
	<5647CDB7A9714AE783FA3D38541BDA86@Shasta>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031511m731c0707gbb0fd69175438a0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm starting to clue in...

since I only have 1 360k floppy, and they don't work well under
windows anymore, I was struggling with how to transfer files.

doh!  I can use 720k floppies formatted as 35 tracks per side to
transfer 360k .dsk images over to the coco.

I installed a 3.5 inch floppy and got it working right off.

So, my coco system is

3.5 inch floppy as drive 0 (and 1)
5.25 inch floppy as drive 2 (and 3)

I think this is all singing all dancing from here out.

I can run Nitros9, DECB whatever.  seems fine.

Only problem is that I threw out my last 3.5 inch bay adapter so I
can't yet mount my small floppy in my FD-501 case....

cheers, Steve


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Stephen H.
Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> OS-9 is very flexable, in fact you can read and write "FLEX" disks just like
> "DECB" disks using the special program. ?I have done both, well, I just read
> the "FLEX" disks but I often read / wrote "DECB" disks as I was using my own
> version of "SLED" for the editing of a "DECB" program.
>
> But all the program does is to transfer files from "FLEX" or "DECB" disks to
> OS-9 files or the reverse.
>
>> There are a lot of applications for coco written for the base machine
>> however.
>> It ?looks to me like you give up on those applications.
>
> Some "DECB" programs can be run using a special program running on OS-9.
>
>> Or are you forever just switching back and forth, to suit the task at
>> hand? ?Sounds like that is the case.
>
> Yes, some "DECB" programs cannot be run at all.
>
> What someone did was to patch "DECB" to be able to run under OS-9.
>
> Both my floppy drives were 80 Track 2 Sided.
>
> The descriptors were set up for 80T 2S but once a OS-9 floppy is formatted
> with a lesser track / side count, OS-9 will recognize and read the OS-9
> floppy just fine.
>
> I often read OS-9 35T 1S disks this way.
>
> For some of the lesser floppy OS-9 formats I used sformat, part of the sdisk
> package.
>
> The utilities for the standard floppy driver can not do all that sdisk 's
> sformat can do.
>
> Thus I sometimes had to boot with an OS-9 system disk with sdisk.
>
> Other times, the standard OS-9 boot disk was used.
>
>> I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
>> RSDOS disks. It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'. Can't remember
>> for sure.
>
> That's the name of one of the programs I believe.
>
> SHF
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] some progress...
>
>
> thanks I'll read some more.
> I tried changing the drive paramters, but of course the directory info
> is in the wrong track too.
>
> Steve
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Sean<badfrog at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Stephen H.
>> Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> * disks created in RS-DOS (35 track) cannot be read or written in
>>>> Nitros-9
>>>
>>> Wrong. You just need the proper disk driver, I assume that NitrOS-9 has
>>> this
>>> already.
>>>
>>> Then you need the proper program. I used sdisk so someone else will have
>>> to
>>> supply the name.
>>>
>>
>> I was almost positive there was an OS9 command that could read/write
>> RSDOS disks. It may have been as simple as 'rsdos'. Can't remember
>> for sure.
>>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Mon Aug  3 18:52:14 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:52:14 -0700
Subject: [Coco] some progress...
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031313t6e811370raac097615ca5e718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FBDC20ED38F45AEA1DBC2AE052365ED@Shasta>

> I'm starting to clue in...

> since I only have 1 360k floppy, and they don't work well under
> windows anymore, I was struggling with how to transfer files.

> doh!  I can use 720k floppies formatted as 35 tracks per side to
> transfer 360k .dsk images over to the coco.

Look up PCDOS for reading / writing MSDOS floppies under OS-9.

SHF



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  3 18:54:16 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:54:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] observation
In-Reply-To: <h56prp$nqu$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d6b09ed60908030551o2c6862c1r4502f794107c8c7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<h56prp$nqu$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5696CF0AB5914CE08BCB7AF1D29B9141@Dell3Gig>

I agree with John.  Back when it mattered, and standards were non-existant
or in flux, everybody needed that info.  These days its not a life skill
anymore, so we forgot.  You might actually find more of the day-to-day
knowledge you are looking for in some of the Compuserve and FIDO digests
from the mid-80's to the early 90's.  That's when the highest number of
"new" people were joining the community and needed their questions answered.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of John E. Malmberg
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Coco] observation
> 
> Stephen Adolph wrote:
> > I must say,
> > 
> > Given the huge amount of coco information out there, it 
> seems that is 
> > suprisingly disorganised, and spread out all over the place  No 
> > offence, but I've got to do a lot of digging just to 
> understand floppy 
> > compatibility and set up.
> 
> The COCO can use up to 3 industry standard double sided double density
> 5.25 or 3.5 inch floppy drives.  High density 3.5 inch drives 
> will work in 720K mode.  The industry standard was set long 
> before anyone heard of an IBM PC.
> 
> 1.2M floppy drives do not fully support writing 320 K 
> floppies, but should be usable to read them on a COCO, if you 
> are just trying to copy disks to some other media.
> 
> There is a hardware mode for the oldest controller that 
> alleges to allow it to work with hi-density 5.25 drives and 
> presumably 3.5 inch drives in high density mode.
> 
> 8 inch floppies require some more hardware hacks similar to 
> the 5.25 hi-density drives.
> 
> > Unless I simply have not found the comprehensive source.  If I've 
> > missed it, please point me to the best places to learn 
> about setting 
> > up the Coco!
> 
> Sorry, I do not have any bookmarks handy.  Floppy information 
> used to be generally known and available until the PC 
> documentation dumbed it down.
> 
> -John
> wb8tyw at qsl.net
> Personal Opinion Only
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  3 18:56:23 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:56:23 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
In-Reply-To: <200908031000.04835.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908030547j7df80c0dl79426dd5dcc85e1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908031000.04835.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <FA184199F390442396E9EE5BDDD71F84@Dell3Gig>

Floppydisk.doc sells them, and 5.25" disks to.  I just bought some.  Haven't
tried them yet, but they were new in the box. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:00 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] question about 3.5 inch floppies
> 
> On Monday 03 August 2009, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >Another dumb question-
> >
> >A 3.5 inch drive will work like a 720k drive simply by placing a DD
> >(720k) disk into the drive, right?
> >
> Generally, yes.  Unforch, finding DD disks can be 
> frustrating.  Taping over the HD hole usually doesn't work as 
> the switch in record drive currents then results in a weak 
> recording, one that may or may not be readable an hour later.
> 
> >So, to use a 3.5 inch floppy with Nirtos-9, one merely needs to have
> >it be plugged in, and make sure to use 720k floppies.   The 
> disk drive
> >will operate correctly. (?)
> 
> If the descriptor is properly dmoded for 720k, usually yes.
> 
> >Interestingly, I have 3 different versions of the same Panasonic 
> >JU-257.  Only one of them can be selected to be drive 0 or 1.
> >
> >I think I have read that, in the coco, you want to use hard drive 
> >selects...no twisted cables.
> 
> That is best.  The drive cable adapters can, if all traces 
> are there, be where the drive select signals are swapped 
> around, allowing one of the fixed at drive 1 drives to be 
> used as 0 or 2.  Terminations on 3.5" drives could be a 
> problem too, and one should check to see if the pc's twisted 
> cable also somehow enables the terminators for drive 0, out 
> on the twisted end of the cable.  Its not something I have 
> attempted here, my drive 0 is a 5.25, 360k drive, 2 is a 720k 
> 5.25, and one is whatever is plugged in at the time, boot 
> default for drive 1 is a 720k here.
> 
> >thanks, Steve
> >
> >--
> >Coco mailing list
> >Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who 
> wants them.
> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
> 
> The people rule.
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  3 19:10:55 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] nitros-9 support
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908030704g58330cbx4f1e63947b00979a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908030704g58330cbx4f1e63947b00979a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03FB2EA5D06649B898FCC05CD3969775@Dell3Gig>

Your best bet on the drives is Cloud9 until you get your "sea" legs under
you.  There are also several good new to OS-9 books/PDFs out there.  I would
suggest the following:

PDF books:

Getting Started with NitrOS9
Mastering OS-9 on the Coco III.
The NitrOS-9 Level II Windowing System 
Inside OS-9 Level II
Installing and Configuring NitrOS9 and HDB-DOS

Hard Copy Books:

The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9
The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Level II

With these on your bookshelf, the majority of your questions will be
answered.







> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:05 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] nitros-9 support
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> NITROS-9 web site does not have all that much information.
> 
> Site mentions a wiki on sourceforge, but it's not really a wiki is it?
>  Where is all the wiki stuff?
> 
> So,
> 
> Where can I get the information I need to be able to-
> 
> 1) select compatible floppy drives for NITROS-9
> 2) install said floppies in my FD-501 enclosure, such that 
> they are compatible with NITROS-9
> 
> and finally,
> 
> 3) I'm wondering if I am writing to the correct forum.  Is 
> there a better place to go to get user support for COCO?
> 
> thanks,
> Steve
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 21:20:38 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:20:38 -0400
Subject: [Coco] flat panel LCD TVs - WAS Re:  nitros-9 support
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, thanks.
I'll do some reading and get up to speed.

Since I don't have a multipak, and for now I think I can live with
floppies, I'll just keep on doing what I am doing, which is
re-learning coco.

Now that my drive story is sorted, and my file transfer story is
sorted, I need to sort out my monitor now.

I'm thinking that a used 13 inch flat panel TV with composite input
would be the ticket.

Anyone ever use  one of those as a coco3 monitor?

..Steve

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Paul Fitch<pfitchjr at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Your best bet on the drives is Cloud9 until you get your "sea" legs under
> you. ?There are also several good new to OS-9 books/PDFs out there. ?I would
> suggest the following:
>
> PDF books:
>
> Getting Started with NitrOS9
> Mastering OS-9 on the Coco III.
> The NitrOS-9 Level II Windowing System
> Inside OS-9 Level II
> Installing and Configuring NitrOS9 and HDB-DOS
>
> Hard Copy Books:
>
> The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9
> The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Level II
>
> With these on your bookshelf, the majority of your questions will be
> answered.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
>> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:05 AM
>> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
>> Subject: [Coco] nitros-9 support
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> NITROS-9 web site does not have all that much information.
>>
>> Site mentions a wiki on sourceforge, but it's not really a wiki is it?
>> ?Where is all the wiki stuff?
>>
>> So,
>>
>> Where can I get the information I need to be able to-
>>
>> 1) select compatible floppy drives for NITROS-9
>> 2) install said floppies in my FD-501 enclosure, such that
>> they are compatible with NITROS-9
>>
>> and finally,
>>
>> 3) I'm wondering if I am writing to the correct forum. ?Is
>> there a better place to go to get user support for COCO?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Steve
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Mon Aug  3 22:07:18 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:07:18 -0600
Subject: [Coco] flat panel LCD TVs - WAS Re:  nitros-9 support
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF228BFC-EC45-4054-B54B-9AE121B08656@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:20 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I'm thinking that a used 13 inch flat panel TV with composite input
> would be the ticket.
>
> Anyone ever use  one of those as a coco3 monitor?

In theory, yes.  But I have a 13" Sharp LCD TV that doesn't seem to  
sync up correctly to the CoCo's output (via composite).  I suppose the  
deinterlacers in an LCD TV could cause some weird problems.  Note that  
you still will likely have troubles reading 80-column text using just  
the composite output.

-- JP



From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 22:27:06 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:27:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] flat panel LCD TVs - WAS Re: nitros-9 support
In-Reply-To: <FF228BFC-EC45-4054-B54B-9AE121B08656@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF228BFC-EC45-4054-B54B-9AE121B08656@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908031927o9802c5aq43d7e47d5761d6@mail.gmail.com>

oh.
Did not know that.
The problem I am mostly trying to address, is the resolution for
reading 80 column text.
What is the best solution?
thanks, steve


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:07 PM, J.P.
Samson<coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com> wrote:
> On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:20 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>
>> I'm thinking that a used 13 inch flat panel TV with composite input
>> would be the ticket.
>>
>> Anyone ever use ?one of those as a coco3 monitor?
>
> In theory, yes. ?But I have a 13" Sharp LCD TV that doesn't seem to sync up
> correctly to the CoCo's output (via composite). ?I suppose the deinterlacers
> in an LCD TV could cause some weird problems. ?Note that you still will
> likely have troubles reading 80-column text using just the composite output.
>
> -- JP
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Mon Aug  3 22:36:05 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:36:05 -0600
Subject: [Coco] flat panel LCD TVs - WAS Re: nitros-9 support
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031927o9802c5aq43d7e47d5761d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF228BFC-EC45-4054-B54B-9AE121B08656@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<d6b09ed60908031927o9802c5aq43d7e47d5761d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5CA06A6A-FA0B-4FA2-A007-25C6CAC3687F@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug 3, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Did not know that.
> The problem I am mostly trying to address, is the resolution for
> reading 80 column text.
> What is the best solution?

Your best bet is to use Roy Justus' RGB-to-VGA converter hardware.  It  
lets you hook up the RGB-Analog output on the underside of the CoCo 3  
to a computer monitor with a VGA input.

Here's a review:
http://coco.clubltdstudios.com/articles/revjustusvga.html

You can contact Roy by e-mail:  RJRTTY [at] aol.com

There's usually a waiting list of several months to buy an adapter,  
unfortunately.  Roy's makin'em as fast as he can.

The advantage of using composite output over RGB is if you are using  
CoCo 1/2 programs that use high-res graphics with artifact colors.   
The RGB connection reproduces these graphics in true black-and-white.

-- JP



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Tue Aug  4 00:11:16 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:11:16 -0600
Subject: [Coco] pic2vef
Message-ID: <20090804041116.GA20279@virgo.sdc.org>

My utility to convert Deskmate 3 PIC files to VEF files is available
at http://www.sdc.org/~goosey/os9/pic2vef.lzh

And it has been uploaded to www.rtsi.com and ftp.maltedmedia.com, and
will appear in the proper directories when the site maintainers see
fit. ;-)  I requested /OS9/OS9_6X09/GRAPHICS for rtsi.

Please let me know if there are any
problems/suggestions/bugs/rants/raves/etc with or for it.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 09:19:20 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:19:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <5b0704c10908031055w391bf54bq2c535902352cc5e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220907310042o795158cdwafd0c7e9ecb2ce3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<9efa17da0907310754m35fe23e0ta67392641b867b86@mail.gmail.com>
	<e44ad6640907312115r6fb5f61fw26b256003c27db1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc956220908030958i1f63fd9am908c68a2bb5a3bb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b0704c10908031055w391bf54bq2c535902352cc5e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908040619s69a2d910gbeba31f0cda77a44@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, tim lindner<tlindner at macmess.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Fedor Steeman<petrander at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmmm.... Something about the numbers is messed up now! I went from 130
>> points to 26??? Are the counts reset at regular intervals?
>
> Yes they are. Only the last four days are tallied.
>
> The idea is to keep people motivated. :)
>

I think both a 4 day leader board and an all time hero list would be
more motivating :)
Also, some tasks are much more difficult than others.  Perhaps 1 point
for verifying article pages, 2 for boxing ads, 3 for ocr check, etc.
etc.
Just my $0.02
-Aaron


> --
> tim lindner
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From wb8tyw at qsl.net  Tue Aug  4 09:27:45 2009
From: wb8tyw at qsl.net (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:27:45 -0500
Subject: [Coco] flat panel LCD TVs - WAS Re: nitros-9 support
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908031927o9802c5aq43d7e47d5761d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908031820l7f0facfcha3ca0c05f97b9b84@mail.gmail.com>	<FF228BFC-EC45-4054-B54B-9AE121B08656@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<d6b09ed60908031927o9802c5aq43d7e47d5761d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h59d0h$p7q$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> oh.
> Did not know that.
> The problem I am mostly trying to address, is the resolution for
> reading 80 column text.
> What is the best solution?

As you have already been given a solution, some background as to why 
what you tried did not work.

An 80 column display requires a monitor bandwidth of about 5 to 8 Mhz.

Because of the way that composite video works in the US, it is limited 
to a bit less than 3.8 Mhz.  In the video there is a color sync burst at 
3.58 Mhz to keep the colors aligned.  The composite video circuit 
generally has a low pass filter to separate the displayed video from the 
color burst.

In the old days, there were hacks published to convert black and white 
TVs to have direct video input.  I tried one, and with the hardware I 
had, I could only get 72 characters to be readable.

So to get higher resolutions than about 40 characters on a traditional 
color TV, you need to separate feeds for at least each color.

In the old days, an analog circuit of the bandwidth needed for the color 
computer was very expensive.  Setting up a circuit with discrete color 
inputs like the COCO 3 Monitor did, was relatively cheap, however it 
made the monitor matched to a specific computer.

-John
wb8ytw at qsl.net
Personal Opinion Only



From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 10:25:46 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:25:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>

Just to confirm,
If I read what I've seen correctly,

32K bank switching is controlled by 4 registers

FFDE/FFDF  (TY)  defines the use of the upper 32k for either the ROMs or RAM

FFD4/FFD5 (P1)  defines the use of the lower 32k for RAM, when in ROM
ACTIVE (not all RAM mode)

ex.

To set all ram mode, one would  write to FFDF

To set first page of RAM active, and ROMS active, write to FFDE, FFD4


And, to jump into all ram mode, you would (in machine language)
(assuming default 32k operation)

* write to FFD4 (ensure normal P1 setting)
* start loop
* write to FFDE (to go into RAM/ROM mode)
* get a byte D from address A
* write to FFDF(switch to all RAM mode)
* write byte D to address A
* end loop


sound reasonable?

thanks, Steve


From farna at att.net  Tue Aug  4 10:46:52 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:46:52 -0400
Subject: [Coco] nitros-9 support
Message-ID: <4A7849DC.3080703@att.net>

"Mastering OS-9 on the CoCo 3" can be downloaded here: ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/Farna/
You will also find an OS-9 "Quick Reference Guide" that will be useful, even with Nitros-9, though some of the commands will be different. Same for "Mastering OS-9", but there is enough similarity that the OS-9 books are great guides for Nitros-9. 

If someone wants to edit that guide for Nitros-9 let me know and I'll get you a text file, then format what you've done back into booklet form. Needs to be a Nitros user, of course! Added commands are no problem, just use the same format. 

For general Color Computer use/repair/upgrading/etc., you really need to get "Tandy's Little Wonder" also. On page 100 in the Appendix is a "CoCo Users Guide" written specifically for the novice. Lee Duell wrote it so that someone who inherited his CoCo system would be able to pull it out of the boxes and figure everything out without too much trouble. There are sections on upgrade, all the peripherals, repairs, and pin-outs for all the connectors -- literally anything you want to know about the physical computer. There's a Nitros-9 section, but it just describes the OS and how it came about, not how to run it. 


------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:10:55 -0400
From: "Paul Fitch" <pfitchjr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Coco] nitros-9 support
To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <03FB2EA5D06649B898FCC05CD3969775 at Dell3Gig>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Your best bet on the drives is Cloud9 until you get your "sea" legs under
you.  There are also several good new to OS-9 books/PDFs out there.  I would
suggest the following:

PDF books:

Getting Started with NitrOS9
Mastering OS-9 on the Coco III.
The NitrOS-9 Level II Windowing System 
Inside OS-9 Level II
Installing and Configuring NitrOS9 and HDB-DOS

Hard Copy Books:

The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9
The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Level II

With these on your bookshelf, the majority of your questions will be
answered.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 11:53:30 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:53:30 -0600
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/4/09, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Just to confirm,
> If I read what I've seen correctly,
>
> 32K bank switching is controlled by 4 registers
>
> FFDE/FFDF  (TY)  defines the use of the upper 32k for either the ROMs or RAM
>
> FFD4/FFD5 (P1)  defines the use of the lower 32k for RAM, when in ROM
> ACTIVE (not all RAM mode)
>
> ex.
>
> To set all ram mode, one would  write to FFDF
>
> To set first page of RAM active, and ROMS active, write to FFDE, FFD4
>
>
> And, to jump into all ram mode, you would (in machine language)
> (assuming default 32k operation)
>
> * write to FFD4 (ensure normal P1 setting)
> * start loop
> * write to FFDE (to go into RAM/ROM mode)
> * get a byte D from address A
> * write to FFDF(switch to all RAM mode)
> * write byte D to address A
> * end loop
>
>
> sound reasonable?
>

First off, if you are using a CoCo 3 then it runs in All RAM mode by
default, so there usually isn't any need to do this.

Your example is mostly correct for a 64K CoCo 1 or 2.  You don't need
to touch P1 (FFD4, FFD5) because your code will be executing in
whatever page happens to be current (normally 0). If you changed the
page your code would disappear and the machine would likely crash.
Furthermore when in All RAM mode, P1 has no significance.

You also need to remember to mask interrupts during the loop, as in
the following example:

      ORCC   #$50
      LDX    #$8000
LP    STA    $FFDE
      LDD    ,X
      STA    $FFDF
      STD    ,X++
      CMPX   #$FE00
      BNE    LP
      ANDCC  #$AF
      RTS


Darren


From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 12:07:05 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:07:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Darren,
Really?  to me this implies that the 8k roms get copied to upper RAM
on power up.  That appears to happen quickly.

Neat.

So, with a coco3 I can easily apply ROM patches, or even just wipe it
clean and shove in a new rom, then jump to the appropriate address to
restart non-destructively.

..steve

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Darren A<mechacoco at gmail.com> wrote:

> First off, if you are using a CoCo 3 then it runs in All RAM mode by
> default, so there usually isn't any need to do this.
>


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 12:34:02 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:34:02 -0600
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/4/09, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Darren,
> Really?  to me this implies that the 8k roms get copied to upper RAM
> on power up.  That appears to happen quickly.
>
> Neat.
>

Yes. The CoCo 3 has a 32K ROM.  The lower 16K contains mostly the same
code you would find in an Extended Basic CoCo 1/2.  During startup,
the ROM (along with the Disk Basic ROM if present) is copied to RAM
and then the CoCo 1/2 code is patched in a few places to call new
routines in Super Extended Color Basic.

Darren


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Tue Aug  4 13:17:50 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:17:50 -0700
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com><5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com><d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68EDEA1703264D289F656C3FDE805D5D@Shasta>

Don't forget the picture of the developers is in the rom also.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren A" <mechacoco at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes


> On 8/4/09, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Darren,
>> Really?  to me this implies that the 8k roms get copied to upper RAM
>> on power up.  That appears to happen quickly.
>>
>> Neat.
>>
> 
> Yes. The CoCo 3 has a 32K ROM.  The lower 16K contains mostly the same
> code you would find in an Extended Basic CoCo 1/2.  During startup,
> the ROM (along with the Disk Basic ROM if present) is copied to RAM
> and then the CoCo 1/2 code is patched in a few places to call new
> routines in Super Extended Color Basic.
> 
> Darren



From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug  4 13:19:54 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:19:54 +0100
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Darren A wrote:
> On 8/4/09, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes. The CoCo 3 has a 32K ROM.  The lower 16K contains mostly the same
> code you would find in an Extended Basic CoCo 1/2.  During startup,
> the ROM (along with the Disk Basic ROM if present) is copied to RAM
> and then the CoCo 1/2 code is patched in a few places to call new
> routines in Super Extended Color Basic.

Which of course begs the question could SECB be patched to work on a 64K 
CoCo 1/2, hardware differences aside.

Cheers.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 13:53:56 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:53:56 -0600
Subject: [Coco] coco sub 64k memory modes
In-Reply-To: <4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/4/09, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
>
> Which of course begs the question could SECB be patched to work on a 64K
> CoCo 1/2, hardware differences aside.
>

Except for ONERR GOTO and ONBRK GOTO I can't think of anything in SECB
that doesn't require the CoCo 3 hardware.

Darren


From leonard23 at verizon.net  Tue Aug  4 14:59:39 2009
From: leonard23 at verizon.net (Leonard Miller)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:59:39 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Check out my photos on Facebook
Message-ID: <a54b0f6aa167f99e09d45d80ff44ce04@localhost.localdomain>

Hi colorcomputer at yahoogroups.com,

I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Leonard

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1406474971&k=Z5FXQVRZ3VWDUCBGUGY2YRQ&r


colorcomputer at yahoogroups.com was invited to join Facebook by Leonard Miller. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=e5d473&u=1674567860&mid=e28249G63cfe0b4G0G8
Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304



From invite+kjdmu~m-ud3i at facebookmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:01:07 2009
From: invite+kjdmu~m-ud3i at facebookmail.com (Leonard Miller)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Check out my photos on Facebook
Message-ID: <f7c4e8449333cb470529feaacb3b1792@localhost.localdomain>

Hi coco at maltedmedia.com,

I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Leonard

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1406474971&k=5WEZZ3WR3Z2M5BD1QB55UVUW2TF&r


coco at maltedmedia.com was invited to join Facebook by Leonard Miller. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=b90c7c&u=100000124244815&mid=e282a1G5af317e2134fG0G8
Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304



From petrander at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:44:35 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:44:35 +0200
Subject: [Coco] Copied manuals: Scan or throw out?
Message-ID: <dcc956220908041244i10e40b66n215aa55916608c7a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
For my ongoing manual scanning effort, I have now only a relatively minor
stack left of copied manuals. Remember: These are not original 'copies' just
'copies' made of the original on a copying machine somewhere during the
eighties. Copied manual that are scanned in are thrown out.

I am in doubt whether I should scan the following in, or if someone else
already scanned in a better copy and thus I can throw these out. Can anyone
help out? Thnx!

1. OS-9 Pascal V2.0 User's Manual by Dragon Data Ltd.
2. OS-9 Interactive debugger
3. Microware OS-9 Assembler
4. Color Profile
5. The Rainbow Book of Adventures
6. TRS-80 Color Computer Quick Reference Guide (1982)
7. VIP Speller
8. Extended Basic User's Manual  by Technical Systems Consultants (1979)

I have three more binders with stuff left, so more coming up....

Cheers,

Fedor


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Tue Aug  4 19:04:03 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:04:03 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Copied manuals: Scan or throw out?
In-Reply-To: <dcc956220908041244i10e40b66n215aa55916608c7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dcc956220908041244i10e40b66n215aa55916608c7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F2BEFDEC58149E097CAF3F9A9B11A02@Dell3Gig>

The only ones I don't remember seeing ( and downloading) are 
Items 4 thru 7.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Fedor Steeman
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:45 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] Copied manuals: Scan or throw out?
> 
> Hi all,
> For my ongoing manual scanning effort, I have now only a 
> relatively minor stack left of copied manuals. Remember: 
> These are not original 'copies' just 'copies' made of the 
> original on a copying machine somewhere during the eighties. 
> Copied manual that are scanned in are thrown out.
> 
> I am in doubt whether I should scan the following in, or if 
> someone else already scanned in a better copy and thus I can 
> throw these out. Can anyone help out? Thnx!
> 
> 1. OS-9 Pascal V2.0 User's Manual by Dragon Data Ltd.
> 2. OS-9 Interactive debugger
> 3. Microware OS-9 Assembler
> 4. Color Profile
> 5. The Rainbow Book of Adventures
> 6. TRS-80 Color Computer Quick Reference Guide (1982) 7. VIP 
> Speller 8. Extended Basic User's Manual  by Technical Systems 
> Consultants (1979)
> 
> I have three more binders with stuff left, so more coming up....
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fedor
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 19:51:02 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:51:02 -0400
Subject: [Coco] floppy set up
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908041651xcfb0166yaa4137c165d7fd25@mail.gmail.com>

There are quite a few little gotchas in floppy set up.  I realize most
of you guys have moved on, but for newbies this is "interesting"-

* you've got the difference in pinout wiring at the controller
* cable wiring differences (twist/notwist/missing pins etc)
* the changing standards in how drives have used the drive selects
* matching motor on, drive selects and side selects to the drive you wish to use
* compatibility issues - number of tracks, rotation speed, sectors/track

So far, it seems like the verdict has to be that 3.5 inch 1.44
floppies are just fine to use with the coco.  Yes they are a bit
different than the 720k cousins, but close enough.  Yes, all you get
in coco mode is 40 tracks.  You should use 720k floppies.  Yes you
will need to mess around with your cables, maybe make a new one, maybe
modify your existing one.

I found the pinout/schematic/service manual  for the TEC FB-501 - it
is buried in the Model 100 DVI service manual.  I also have the
service manual for the old Tandon 5.25 floppy.

As I said, all the info is out there but it is seriously spread out!

The nice thing is, that 720k format is still possible to be used on an
XP machine, so it is possible therefore to make real disks from .DSKs
on the PC.

At least this can be made to work -  unlike the situation for the
Model 100, which has a whole different approach to things.

Thanks for the help.
I feel like I could write a document on the subject now, but it should
be on a wiki somewhere.

In M100 land, one of the guys started a pretty useful wiki.  Why don't
one of you long time keeners do one like this, and then we can all
contribute our little pieces.

see
www.bitchin100.com/wiki


Steve


From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Tue Aug  4 19:47:01 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:47:01 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>

"The Shack" re-branding

RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack" 
as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked off by a 
launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York featuring "14 foot 
tall laptops" streaming the images from their webcams from one city to 
the other, live music in both locations, as well as television coverage 
of the event.[14] The event will take place in Times Square and Justin 
Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009, starting each morning at 6AM Eastern 
and lasting until Midnight. To help promote the rebranding internally, 
employees were given T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all branded with 
the new "The Shack" logo. These internal promotional items were bundled 
with a 5 minute long, highly stylized and edited video with an 
introduction from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.

Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.

Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the press 
and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you feel when 
you walk out of their stores.


From tlindner at macmess.org  Tue Aug  4 20:19:26 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:19:26 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908040619s69a2d910gbeba31f0cda77a44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>

Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think both a 4 day leader board and an all time hero list would be
> more motivating :)

I understand. I should have said more motivating for new users. I think
an all-time leader board is a good idea. I might take that up this
weekend.

> Also, some tasks are much more difficult than others.  Perhaps 1 point
> for verifying article pages, 2 for boxing ads, 3 for ocr check, etc.
> etc.

I would need more convincing for this to be implemented. :)

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright


From dml_68 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  4 23:28:43 2009
From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:28:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nothing like taking 80 years of brand name build up and flushing it down the toilet. This ranks as one of the worst corporate decisions ever...



** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **


 

--- On Tue, 8/4/09, Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net> wrote:

From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net>
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 4:47 PM

"The Shack" re-branding

RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack" as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked off by a launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York featuring "14 foot tall laptops" streaming the images from their webcams from one city to the other, live music in both locations, as well as television coverage of the event.[14] The event will take place in Times Square and Justin Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009, starting each morning at 6AM Eastern and lasting until Midnight. To help promote the rebranding internally, employees were given T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all branded with the new "The Shack" logo. These internal promotional items were bundled with a 5 minute long, highly stylized and edited video with an introduction from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.

Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.

Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the press and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you feel when you walk out of their stores.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From alsplace at pobox.com  Tue Aug  4 23:31:52 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:31:52 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <FFDDA4F6-61BF-40BE-A2B1-79E25BFDBCE0@pobox.com>

On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:47 PM, Steve Bjork wrote:

> "The Shack" re-branding

Wow. Although we lost the "T" in TRS-80 awhile ago (and I didn't even  
realize that had happened until probably a year or two ago!), now we  
lose the "R"...

Well, S-80 users of the world, unite!

		-- A




From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Tue Aug  4 23:43:43 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:43:43 -0600
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C8D65556-3353-4B10-870E-B2C7651E510B@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug 4, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Derek wrote:
> Nothing like taking 80 years of brand name build up and flushing it  
> down the toilet. This ranks as one of the worst corporate decisions  
> ever...
>
> --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net> wrote:
>
> Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.

To be honest, does anyone under the age of 40 even know what a radio  
shack refers to--the historical, dictionary definition?  (Wikipedia to  
the rescue on that one!)  That's probably the big reason for dumping  
the name.  Anyway, I'd prefer the Radio Shack name not be associated  
with the poor excuse for an electronics retailer that remains!  Might  
as well call it "Crap Shack".

Here in Canada, Radio Shack is long gone.  Many years ago, it was  
bought out by Circuit City and eventually retitled "The Source".   
Radio Shack made another go later at re-entering the market, but that  
attempt folded pretty quickly.  This year, "The Source" was purchased  
by Bell, and assumedly it will be turned into a retailer dedicated to  
selling Bell Canada's cell phone, satellite TV, and Internet service.

-- JP



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 00:38:37 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>






----- Original Message ----
From: tim lindner <tlindner at macmess.org>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:19:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?

Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think both a 4 day leader board and an all time hero list would be
> more motivating :)

I understand. I should have said more motivating for new users. I think
an all-time leader board is a good idea. I might take that up this
weekend.

> Also, some tasks are much more difficult than others.  Perhaps 1 point
> for verifying article pages, 2 for boxing ads, 3 for ocr check, etc.
> etc.

I would need more convincing for this to be implemented. :)

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



Since they appear to be randomly disributed, I'm sure over time they would be distributed evenly enough to be statistically inconsequential, especially for the highest contributors.

Bob.


      


From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 01:06:35 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <318090.94724.qm@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:RadioShack#.22THE_SHACK.22_Creative_Platform

"THE SHACK" Creative Platform
My name is Wendy Dominguez, and I work for RadioShack Corporation. I
see that the Wikipedia community has added a new section to our article
titled, ?The Shack re-branding.? I?d like to share more information to
clarify and expand on this initiative. RadioShack is not changing its
name. The name of the Company and all of our stores will remain
RadioShack. THE SHACK is a new brand creative platform that RadioShack
will unveil on August 6, 2009. Our customers will experience the
campaign through television, print and digital media, as well as a
three-day launch event taking place in New York City and San Francisco.
You can find more information in our press release: http://ir.radioshackcorporation.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=400656.
The new advertising will place greater emphasis on mobility and
wireless products from leading brands. However, the sentence in this
section about a ?telemarketing campaign? aimed at post-paid customers
is not related to THE SHACK brand campaign. We suggest that this
sentence be moved, as it is currently presented out of context.--139.60.210.5 (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)RadioShack Communications




________________________________
From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 4:47:01 PM
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

"The Shack" re-branding

RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack" as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked off by a launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York featuring "14 foot tall laptops" streaming the images from their webcams from one city to the other, live music in both locations, as well as television coverage of the event.[14] The event will take place in Times Square and Justin Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009, starting each morning at 6AM Eastern and lasting until Midnight. To help promote the rebranding internally, employees were given T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all branded with the new "The Shack" logo. These internal promotional items were bundled with a 5 minute long, highly stylized and edited video with an introduction from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.

Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.

Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the press and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you feel when you walk out of their stores.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com  Wed Aug  5 09:01:09 2009
From: Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com (Ries, Rich (NY80))
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:01:09 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>


"RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack"
as well as re-building corporate culture. ... Tandy is gone and so is
Radio Shack in a few days."

Odd thoughts:
(1) There is a book out called "The Shack." Wonder if the lawyers are
starting to drool...
(2) Tandy lost me when (a) they went to PC-clones and (b) they stopped
carrying the electronic components they used to. Sure the components
were over-priced, but if you really REALLY needed a part for a project,
you could usually get it.

--Rich


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:07:27 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:07:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:38 AM, theother_bob<theother_bob at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: tim lindner <tlindner at macmess.org>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:19:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
>
> Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think both a 4 day leader board and an all time hero list would be
>> more motivating :)
>
> I understand. I should have said more motivating for new users. I think
> an all-time leader board is a good idea. I might take that up this
> weekend.
>
>> Also, some tasks are much more difficult than others. ?Perhaps 1 point
>> for verifying article pages, 2 for boxing ads, 3 for ocr check, etc.
>> etc.
>
> I would need more convincing for this to be implemented. :)
>
> --
> tim lindner
> tlindner at macmess.org ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Bright
>
>
>
> Since they appear to be randomly disributed, I'm sure over time they would be distributed evenly enough to be statistically inconsequential, especially for the highest contributors.
>
> Bob.

Aye, but you can simply hit refresh to have a tedious task replaced
with an easier one, so the nice random distribution is destroyed by
the evil nature of man :)
Human nature being what it is, I think using a leader board to
motivate will have the side effect of making easy tasks more desirable
than difficult tasks.  Probably not a big deal considering the
project, but that was why I thought giving more credit for doing more
difficult tasks might be a good idea.


From alsplace at pobox.com  Wed Aug  5 10:44:26 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>

I just heard from Nancy Myers (of CoCoPro Dave and Nancy) and she was  
trying to track down something she had published in Rainbow around  
1990. I mentioned this project but didn't know the details. Can  
someone help track down her article?


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug  5 13:43:31 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:43:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4A79C4C3.9010504@sbcglobal.net>

Allen Huffman wrote:
> I just heard from Nancy Myers (of CoCoPro Dave and Nancy) and she was
> trying to track down something she had published in Rainbow around 1990.
> I mentioned this project but didn't know the details. Can someone help
> track down her article?
> 
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
What is the name of the article or can you describe what we are looking for?

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From alsplace at pobox.com  Wed Aug  5 14:03:02 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:03:02 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <4A79C4C3.9010504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
	<4A79C4C3.9010504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <390528A2-63F2-451A-BC9D-AB408F657335@pobox.com>

It's a poem she submitted - not sure.

Sent from my iPhone 3GS
Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
Stalk me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/allenhuffman
http://twitter.com/atthefaire - AtTheFaire.com
http://twitter.com/disneyfanscom - DisneyFans.com
http://twitter.com/dmrenfaire - Des Moines Ren Faire
http://twitter.com/festint - Iowa/Nebraska Ren/Pirate Fests

On Aug 5, 2009, at 12:43 PM, Brian Goers <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>  
wrote:

> Allen Huffman wrote:
>> I just heard from Nancy Myers (of CoCoPro Dave and Nancy) and she was
>> trying to track down something she had published in Rainbow around  
>> 1990.
>> I mentioned this project but didn't know the details. Can someone  
>> help
>> track down her article?
>>
>> -- 
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
> What is the name of the article or can you describe what we are  
> looking for?
>
> -- 
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Wed Aug  5 14:16:49 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:16:49 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>

Ries, Rich (NY80) wrote:
> "RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack"
> as well as re-building corporate culture. ... Tandy is gone and so is
> Radio Shack in a few days."
>
> Odd thoughts:
> (1) There is a book out called "The Shack." Wonder if the lawyers are
> starting to drool...
> (2) Tandy lost me when (a) they went to PC-clones and (b) they stopped
> carrying the electronic components they used to. Sure the components
> were over-priced, but if you really REALLY needed a part for a project,
> you could usually get it.
>
>   
Item #2 is the one that did it for me. I swear they just want to make 
themselves irrelevant and go out of business.
They certainly removed every reason they really had to exist and set 
them apart from other retail stores.

I really want to see the old Radio Shack return or at least a chain a 
lot like what RS used to be.

Actually I think a return of 8 bit microcomputers (or any small easily 
understood and programmable machine at the hardware level) would be 
great as a way to bring up a new generation of software developers. I 
know I wouldn't be where I am today without being exposed to the coco at 
home and apple II and c64 machines (and of course early pcs and macs) at 
school.

There really is no substitute today for the simple home computers of the 
80s where you could read the manual and get started right away learning 
how computers work and learning programming. but not only that but 
learning that the computer really is just a simple machine that executes 
instructions given to it and not some horribly complex magic box that 
nobody knows about.  I'm not seriously suggesting people use such 
systems for normal computing, just that they should be used for early 
introduction to computers so that people have a hands on practical  
introduction to computers and software on a simple easily understood 
system. so they can learn the basic overall concepts that they can apply 
to larger more modern systems.






From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug  5 18:10:19 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:10:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com><5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <54445EC8F7F94CA4A3ACB385377A1617@Dell3Gig>

I agree with the spirit of what you said, but not the text.  You don't need
an 8-bit machine when you have an emulator.  You could basically have any
machine you wanted.  I suspect todays high-end PCs are probably capable of
emulating the early CRAYS.

So you want you kids to learn about computing, fire up VCC or Mess or Mocha.
We might as well make these uSoft machines do something usefull for once<g>.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of William Schaub
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:17 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
> 
> Ries, Rich (NY80) wrote:
> > "RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as 
> "The Shack"
> > as well as re-building corporate culture. ... Tandy is gone 
> and so is 
> > Radio Shack in a few days."
> >
> > Odd thoughts:
> > (1) There is a book out called "The Shack." Wonder if the 
> lawyers are 
> > starting to drool...
> > (2) Tandy lost me when (a) they went to PC-clones and (b) 
> they stopped 
> > carrying the electronic components they used to. Sure the 
> components 
> > were over-priced, but if you really REALLY needed a part for a 
> > project, you could usually get it.
> >
> >   
> Item #2 is the one that did it for me. I swear they just want 
> to make themselves irrelevant and go out of business.
> They certainly removed every reason they really had to exist 
> and set them apart from other retail stores.
> 
> I really want to see the old Radio Shack return or at least a 
> chain a lot like what RS used to be.
> 
> Actually I think a return of 8 bit microcomputers (or any 
> small easily understood and programmable machine at the 
> hardware level) would be great as a way to bring up a new 
> generation of software developers. I know I wouldn't be where 
> I am today without being exposed to the coco at home and 
> apple II and c64 machines (and of course early pcs and macs) 
> at school.
> 
> There really is no substitute today for the simple home 
> computers of the 80s where you could read the manual and get 
> started right away learning how computers work and learning 
> programming. but not only that but learning that the computer 
> really is just a simple machine that executes instructions 
> given to it and not some horribly complex magic box that 
> nobody knows about.  I'm not seriously suggesting people use 
> such systems for normal computing, just that they should be 
> used for early introduction to computers so that people have 
> a hands on practical introduction to computers and software 
> on a simple easily understood system. so they can learn the 
> basic overall concepts that they can apply to larger more 
> modern systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 18:33:17 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:33:17 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>

William Schaub wrote:
> Actually I think a return of 8 bit microcomputers (or any small easily 
> understood and programmable machine at the hardware level) would be 
> great as a way to bring up a new generation of software developers. I 
> know I wouldn't be where I am today without being exposed to the coco 
> at home and apple II and c64 machines (and of course early pcs and 
> macs) at school.
Let's face it: We, old lads (35+), love those 8-bit clunkers for they 
remind us our childhood, our first computing experiences, or both. This 
is why I collect 8-bit computers, and I suspect that in 25 years from 
now, 35+ people will collect PSP, Game Boy Advance, and iPhone devices 
for the same reasons.

If you were to sell late seventies/early eighties type of computers 
(e.g. 1-MHz, 8-bit CPU w/ 64KB RAM) nowadays, I predict that 95% of your 
clientele would be old nostalgic chaps like us. I also predict you 
wouldn't sell millions of them...

We are strange birds, aren't we?

Christian



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Wed Aug  5 18:47:44 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:47:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A0C10.9090604@worldnet.att.net>

Allen Huffman wrote:
> I just heard from Nancy Myers (of CoCoPro Dave and Nancy) and she was 
> trying to track down something she had published in Rainbow around 1990. 
> I mentioned this project but didn't know the details. Can someone help 
> track down her article?
> 


"Computer Widow's Tale: STUFF" by Nancy Meyers, The Rainbow, August, 
1990, p92.

I don't think the project has reached this issue yet.


From alsplace at pobox.com  Wed Aug  5 18:50:32 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:50:32 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <4A79C4C3.9010504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
	<4A79C4C3.9010504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <501DA72A-765B-4DCD-83D2-6B4BEC7C33D0@pobox.com>

Brian -- does this help?

"A computer widow's tale" The poem itself is "Stuff".

and

"I think it was the issue that has a shell and a teal cover. Maybe  
August or Sept. '90."

		-- Allen
--
Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests!
Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com

http://facebook.com/allenhuffman - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
http://twitter.com/disneyfanscom - http://twitter.com/atthefaire

2010: 30th Anniversary - Tandy/Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer  
(CoCo) - http://www.coco30.com



From alsplace at pobox.com  Wed Aug  5 18:51:10 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:51:10 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <4A7A0C10.9090604@worldnet.att.net>
References: <1j3xp60.1epfn8e90f0xkM%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<749809.55912.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908050707o738746f4x83b57044f8ddc246@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F2761D0-C9F6-4E77-B22A-014CDFE88D37@pobox.com>
	<4A7A0C10.9090604@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <67DFA628-367A-4E24-9DAA-E1F7F88CED35@pobox.com>

Wow, I sent my previous message out too soon -- way to go, Robert!!!

> "Computer Widow's Tale: STUFF" by Nancy Meyers, The Rainbow, August,  
> 1990, p92.


--
Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests!
Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com

http://facebook.com/allenhuffman - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
http://twitter.com/disneyfanscom - http://twitter.com/atthefaire

2010: 30th Anniversary - Tandy/Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer  
(CoCo) - http://www.coco30.com



From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 19:58:38 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com> <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think someone like Radio Shack could do it and make some money.

Remember those video games a few years ago that were shaped like joysticks? They were complete Atari 2600 VCS systems complete with a rather large library of games. I think they sold for about $25.

Why not do the same for the Color Computer? It could be a small cube, perhaps three or four inches wide with a USB port for a keyboard and SVGA or HDMI out. It could use standard flash memory sticks instead of floppy drives

Now here's how you could make it a little interesting. Include a CD or DVD with a software development kit and have a contest. Top prize maybe $100,000. Encourage todays youth to push the Color Computer to its limits.






________________________________
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:33:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding


If you were to sell late seventies/early eighties type of computers (e.g. 1-MHz, 8-bit CPU w/ 64KB RAM) nowadays, I predict that 95% of your clientele would be old nostalgic chaps like us. I also predict you wouldn't sell millions of them...

We are strange birds, aren't we?

Christian


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From alsplace at pobox.com  Wed Aug  5 20:01:39 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:01:39 -0500
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com> <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
	<758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DE595302-3EE9-4277-BDF1-A8BFFBDD56C4@pobox.com>

On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Bill Cousert wrote:
> Remember those video games a few years ago that were shaped like  
> joysticks? They were complete Atari 2600 VCS systems complete with a  
> rather large library of games. I think they sold for about $25.

They couldn't keep the Atari Flashback 2 in stock when it first came  
out -- I looked all over town trying to find one.  (Mmmm, COMBAT on an  
HDTV...)

Some of those handhelds are Nintendo 8-bit machines, and I have also  
seen a Sega Genesis as well as a Commodore 64. (The original Atari  
Flashback unit was an NES, with the games just ported.)

So, Radio Shack could have, if nothing else, brought out a PC TRS-80  
Model I/III or CoCo emulator. The 25th anniversary of the Model I  
passed with only a press release, if I recall.

		-- A




From badfrog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 20:08:23 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:08:23 -0500
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <DE595302-3EE9-4277-BDF1-A8BFFBDD56C4@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com> <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
	<758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<DE595302-3EE9-4277-BDF1-A8BFFBDD56C4@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0908051708n3d6be6e3ub3fc99514f8c3214@mail.gmail.com>

You can actually hack those Flashback 2 systems and put a 2600
cartridge port on it.  All the pins were included on the circuit
boards.  Not 100% of games are supported, but fairly close.

http://www.atarimuseum.com/fb2hacks/page1.htm


On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Allen Huffman<alsplace at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Bill Cousert wrote:
>>
>> Remember those video games a few years ago that were shaped like
>> joysticks? They were complete Atari 2600 VCS systems complete with a rather
>> large library of games. I think they sold for about $25.
>
> They couldn't keep the Atari Flashback 2 in stock when it first came out --
> I looked all over town trying to find one. ?(Mmmm, COMBAT on an HDTV...)
>
> Some of those handhelds are Nintendo 8-bit machines, and I have also seen a
> Sega Genesis as well as a Commodore 64. (The original Atari Flashback unit
> was an NES, with the games just ported.)
>
> So, Radio Shack could have, if nothing else, brought out a PC TRS-80 Model
> I/III or CoCo emulator. The 25th anniversary of the Model I passed with only
> a press release, if I recall.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- A
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 20:09:58 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:09:58 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com>
	<4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
	<758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A1F56.3010605@gmail.com>

Bill Cousert wrote:
> I think someone like Radio Shack could do it and make some money.
>
> Remember those video games a few years ago that were shaped like joysticks? They were complete Atari 2600 VCS systems complete with a rather large library of games. I think they sold for about $25.
>
> Why not do the same for the Color Computer? 

Because the CoCo was not such a great gaming platform when compared to 
the Commodore 64, and it never enjoyed a popularity comparable to that 
of the Commodore 64 or the Atari 2600!




From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 20:46:03 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0908051708n3d6be6e3ub3fc99514f8c3214@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.15.1249443826.18760.coco@maltedmedia.com>
	<5AE7680A1972BC48AF472EE23543615F03818442@DE08EV808.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<4A79CC91.10904@steubentech.com> <4A7A08AD.3000408@gmail.com>
	<758239.64808.qm@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<DE595302-3EE9-4277-BDF1-A8BFFBDD56C4@pobox.com>
	<9efa17da0908051708n3d6be6e3ub3fc99514f8c3214@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <359415.95107.qm@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Apple didn't do anything for the 30th anniversary of the Apple II (2007) or the 25th anniversary of the Macintosh back in January. No mention whatsoever on their web.  Oh well. The 50th anniversary of both the TRS-80 and the Apple II is just around the corner...




On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Allen Huffman<alsplace at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> So, Radio Shack could have, if nothing else, brought out a PC TRS-80 Model
> I/III or CoCo emulator. The 25th anniversary of the Model I passed with only
> a press release, if I recall.
>
>                -- A
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From operator at coco3.com  Wed Aug  5 21:20:44 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:20:44 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090805194829.0517d030@coco3.com>

At 06:47 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:
>"The Shack" re-branding
>
>RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The 
>Shack" as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked 
>off by a launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York 
>featuring "14 foot tall laptops" streaming the images from their 
>webcams from one city to the other, live music in both locations, as 
>well as television coverage of the event.[14] The event will take 
>place in Times Square and Justin Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009, 
>starting each morning at 6AM Eastern and lasting until Midnight. To 
>help promote the rebranding internally, employees were given 
>T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all branded with the new "The 
>Shack" logo. These internal promotional items were bundled with a 5 
>minute long, highly stylized and edited video with an introduction 
>from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.
>
>Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.
>
>Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the 
>press and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you 
>feel when you walk out of their stores.

The rebranding is nothing but a last gasp from a failed business 
model that has persisted while other businesses change with U.S. 
culture.  The shack has stuck with what used to work for them and it 
took them WAY too long to figure out "it ain't really working".  When 
they ditch the electronic hobbyist items, it'll be a sad day, but 
then that's life.

Also, this is the most intimidating store I've had to shop in.  Even 
Wal-Marts faulty security poles we have to deal with today doesn't 
compare to the experience I feel when I walk into a shack just trying 
to round up a few electronic components.  There's no peaceful 
shopping in a shack.  So I try my best to not go anymore.



>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From operator at coco3.com  Wed Aug  5 21:26:30 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:26:30 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
	<397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090805202230.0517da70@coco3.com>

At 10:28 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:
>Nothing like taking 80 years of brand name build up and flushing it 
>down the toilet. This ranks as one of the worst corporate decisions ever...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Coca-Cola and UPS both made changes 
right before their 100th anniversary?  This works for huge companies, 
but you're probably right that it doesn't seem smart for RS who's 
already changed their logo recently, unless I'm getting old and it 
just seems like it was a few years ago.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Aug  5 23:02:10 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:02:10 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090805194829.0517d030@coco3.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090805194829.0517d030@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200908052302.10343.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>At 06:47 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:
>>"The Shack" re-branding
>>
>>RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The
>>Shack" as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked
>>off by a launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York
>>featuring "14 foot tall laptops" streaming the images from their
>>webcams from one city to the other, live music in both locations, as
>>well as television coverage of the event.[14] The event will take
>>place in Times Square and Justin Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009,
>>starting each morning at 6AM Eastern and lasting until Midnight. To
>>help promote the rebranding internally, employees were given
>>T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all branded with the new "The
>>Shack" logo. These internal promotional items were bundled with a 5
>>minute long, highly stylized and edited video with an introduction
>>from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.
>>
>>Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.
>>
>>Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the
>>press and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you
>>feel when you walk out of their stores.
>
>The rebranding is nothing but a last gasp from a failed business
>model that has persisted while other businesses change with U.S.
>culture.  The shack has stuck with what used to work for them and it
>took them WAY too long to figure out "it ain't really working".  When
>they ditch the electronic hobbyist items, it'll be a sad day, but
>then that's life.
>
>Also, this is the most intimidating store I've had to shop in.  Even
>Wal-Marts faulty security poles we have to deal with today doesn't
>compare to the experience I feel when I walk into a shack just trying
>to round up a few electronic components.  There's no peaceful
>shopping in a shack.  So I try my best to not go anymore.

I would hope that the person claiming to be a shack shill, is faithfully 
reading this, and will take some of our opinions back to someplace it might 
have an effect.  Besides the other squawks in this thread, and the fact that 
I'm an opinionated old fart AND a broadcast engineer, not to mention a C.E.T., 
rant mode is ON:

Hear me, Mr. Shack shill, closely:  The old radio shack that had a good 
hobbiest selection of electronic parts was usually our first line of defense 
for keeping small town America radio and yes, tv stations too, on the air, cuz 
we could, if we were smart enough, generally cobble something together to 
replace our broken whatsis and whichamigidguits.  Slowly that has gone away 
over the last 15 years, largely because you, Radio Shack, has lost sight of 
the original mission, which we think was intended to intro the people who were 
curious enough to want to learn, something about how electronics thingies 
worked, and make some money doing it.  You had the parts we needed to not only 
experiment and learn, but to fix that which broke.  That was 25 years ago.

Then you thought you make some money with this newfangled thing called a 
computer, so at the beginning you didn't want to risk much, so you gave us a 
z80 based Model 1, which sold for $799 when it was first shipped.  It sold 
just enough at that sky high price to show you there was a potential market, 
so you went looking for something a bit lower priced, and came up with the 4k 
color computer for a couple hundred less.  As for the beloved 'coco' the rest 
is all old history to _this_ group.  Then came a series of less than stellar 
stuff based on the intel cpu's, all so cheaply built they couldn't run any 
applications or games but yours.  Now deader than a dodo of course.  All along 
the line you treated anything electronic as something to squeeze every dollar 
you could out of the production costs, regardless of how badly it was crippled 
by so doing.  CRT's in your monitors were half the number of dots per linear 
inch the competition was selling for 50 bucks less for instance, so using one 
of them was eye straining at best, and unusable much of the time.  For an 
example, the CM8, sold for CoCo3's, only had enough resolution to be usable at 
a width 40 screen because text was unreadable at width 80.  Why do you think 
that back then, phillips/maggy was selling an 8CM515 for 100 bucks more, and 4 
out of 5 of them were going to Coco3 users?

Then the amiga hit the tv stations, and we kept phillips/maggy in business for 
much of a decade, making decent rgb driveable, ntsc scan rate monitors 
including their 8cm135.  For several years, the fancy graphics you saw on tv 
was all generated, sometimes in real time, by one of the better amigas.  Those 
graphics were in large part possible because we had monitors good enough to 
show us the mistakes. You could have had 90% of that business if you would 
have used the same razor sharp crt in yours.

Now your thing is cell phones and digital cameras.  I wouldn't touch one of 
your cell phones because of the contract language, and the digital camera 
selection is from the decidedly low end of the line stuff.  No one at the 
shack today has a clue as to whether or not I can plug in a usb cable, mount 
it as a disk drive, and copy the pix off to my computer for printing like I 
can right now with my aged Olympus C3020.  No one manning your stores even has 
a clue what I'm talking about.  Stock answer is that you've got this photo 
printer for sale, only $300 by the time I get all the supplies for it.  Guess 
what?  Its a toy! I don't do very many of that size, which I can do 4 up on a 
sheet, but if its worth printing, I do a full borderless 8.5x11.  And I 
probably do them in higher color fidelity, not to mention with full 100 year 
archival dyes, than your gizmo, for about $2 a print including my time.  On an 
old, 4 color, epson C82.  That thing is amazing.  I have sold prints of 
weddings, several times, and I just went as a guest.

I could go on, but the examples I've mentioned are symptomatic of poor 
management decisions for the last 25 years.  Had you jumped on the m68k 
bandwagon and given us another, better amiga, the world might just not be so 
ruled by wintel cpu's with largely broken architectures that are now demanded 
because of the legacy software out there that wouldn't have a clue what to do 
if it suddenly didn't have to work around the broken intel design from the 
gitgo.  Heck, I would have thought you would have learned from the z80 
debacle.  My mistake.  There are lots of far better cpu architectures out 
there than intel and its clones.  How about the arm cpu that can run at 200mhz 
using 1/4 watt of power?  Or the 500 mhz version that runs on 2 watts?  Both 
run linux natively.  But because that's (wintel crap) what I can get, that's 
what I'm running here, an AMD quad core phenom 9550 at 2.1Ghz, burns 65 watts 
sleeping, and 4Gb of ram is almost enough to make it do what I want to do, 
which, come to think of it, is everything.

Oh, and tell your money folks that when I have $20K in the bank (which I 
generally do in my checking account, I've written checks for the last 3 
vehicles I've purchased), and I've been a presence in your stores as a 
customer for 20 years in the same 2 stores, I am not about to go home and get 
a birth certificate so I have 2 bits of identity on me when I want to buy $50 
worth of stuff and pay by check.  You just pi$$ed in my cherrios with that bit 
of nonsense.

/rant.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The doctrine of human equality reposes on this: that there is no man
really clever who has not found that he is stupid.
		-- Gilbert K. Chesterson



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 23:54:49 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:54:49 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908052302.10343.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>	<6.2.5.6.1.20090805194829.0517d030@coco3.com>
	<200908052302.10343.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4A7A5409.2060005@gmail.com>

The world changes, and so does the "Shack". I don't know many people who 
will even try to repair their cellular phone when it's broken. It's just 
too small, too integrated to be practical. Replacing a burnt transistor 
in a 1975 hi-fi amplifier is one thing. Troubleshooting a defective 
iPhone, PSP, MP3/4 player, or cellular phone is another... Of course, 
you can identify some obvious problems like a broken audio jack or power 
connector, but what do you do when a BGA chip is fried? In the unlikely 
event that you succeed in pinpointing the exact problem, most often, you 
will have to replace the whole PCB anyway... but you will end up 
replacing the damn device, because they no longer make new PCBs, or 
they're just too expensive compared to the price of newer and better 
devices.

So my point is: The electronic parts market has shrunk, and it's just 
not profitable enough for a nation-wide chain of stores to carry a wide 
range of parts like they used to in the 70s and the 80s, unless they 
focus on this particular market (which means they stop selling 
computers, TVs, DVD players, radios, phones, toys, etc. -- which is I 
guess is a lot more profitable), and close all of their stores but those 
located in 300k+ cities.

By the way, the TRS-80 Model I sold for $599 (4K Level I) in the USA, 
and I don't think it was a "sky high price". Well, of course, it was a 
lot of money back in 1979, but it was also very cheap for a personal 
computer -- an Apple II w/ 4K sold for $1300 in 1977.

Christian


From alsplace at pobox.com  Thu Aug  6 01:05:30 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:05:30 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Nancy Myers poem found
Message-ID: <89D3F384-4270-4C33-83AE-8DDF077B6B8F@pobox.com>

And she writes:

"I got it, I got it...OMG, I can't believe I'd ever see it again.  
Thank you Robert, Tom and you Allen. "

Not sure what she's doing but she will send us a link when it's  
posted...

Sent from my iPhone 3GS
Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/allenhuffman
Stalk me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/allenhuffman
http://twitter.com/atthefaire - AtTheFaire.com
http://twitter.com/disneyfanscom - DisneyFans.com
http://twitter.com/dmrenfaire - Des Moines Ren Faire
http://twitter.com/festint - Iowa/Nebraska Ren/Pirate Fests


From lamune at doki-doki.net  Thu Aug  6 02:37:12 2009
From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:37:12 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
	<397708.12630.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B837@concord.lamunet.local>

I think it's just a scam to sink the stock price, snap it up for a fraction of the cost, and then revert to the old brand and make a ton of money.

See "New Coke"

-Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-
> bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Derek
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:29 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> 
> Nothing like taking 80 years of brand name build up and flushing it
> down the toilet. This ranks as one of the worst corporate decisions
> ever...
> 
> 
> 
> ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net> wrote:
> 
> From: Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net>
> Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 4:47 PM
> 
> "The Shack" re-branding
> 
> RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack"
> as well as re-building corporate culture. This will be kicked off by a
> launch celebration in both San Francisco and New York featuring "14
> foot tall laptops" streaming the images from their webcams from one
> city to the other, live music in both locations, as well as television
> coverage of the event.[14] The event will take place in Times Square
> and Justin Herman Plaza on August 6-8, 2009, starting each morning at
> 6AM Eastern and lasting until Midnight. To help promote the rebranding
> internally, employees were given T-shirts, travel mugs, and EGrips, all
> branded with the new "The Shack" logo. These internal promotional items
> were bundled with a 5 minute long, highly stylized and edited video
> with an introduction from the CEO explaining what "The Shack" is.
> 
> Tandy is gone and so is Radio Shack in a few days.
> 
> Yes, some of called the stores "the shack" in the past, but the press
> and public will new start calling them "The Shaft" for how you feel
> when you walk out of their stores.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.35/2270 - Release Date:
> 07/29/09 06:12:00


From farna at att.net  Thu Aug  6 07:31:37 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:31:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] "The Shack" re-branding
Message-ID: <4A7ABF19.2050806@att.net>

I agree in principal, but there actually IS a decent substitute -- the BASIC Stamp and similar micro controllers. Projects using them do exactly what you describe. They are a little more difficult to work with though, and require a larger computer to program. Something simple like the CoCo with a more accessible I/O buss (no plug in cards -- or a card with wire-wrap, spring clip, or screw terminals that has a physical connection to the board such as anchor screws near the connector) with it's own simple video (composite would do, but basic VGA would be better) and keyboard would be easier to use. That or maybe just a USB connection and a program that would allow accessing the board with a special terminal program/emulator (monitor program). I think some of them work like that now. Plugging into another computer does take some of the "charm" away, but also makes it cheap. Then the whole machine could be programmed and set up to do some robotic task. Face it, PCs are ubiquitous and older ones are cheap to free. As long as the monitor program would run okay on a P4 that should be fine. Make the monitor in Windows and Linux versions, or just a Linux live CD to make things simpler. Emulators don't have the charm of the CoCo, but functionally can be the same. It's the hardware portion, using it as a controller for some project, that can't really be emulated. Working on the emulator then downloading to a dumb box with just a USB port and the I/O connections would be fine -- as long as no display was needed. Limitations again....

-----------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:16:49 -0400
From: William Schaub <wschaub at steubentech.com>

Actually I think a return of 8 bit microcomputers (or any small easily 
understood and programmable machine at the hardware level) would be 
great as a way to bring up a new generation of software developers. I 
know I wouldn't be where I am today without being exposed to the coco at 
home and apple II and c64 machines (and of course early pcs and macs) at 
school.

There really is no substitute today for the simple home computers of the 
80s where you could read the manual and get started right away learning 
how computers work and learning programming. but not only that but 
learning that the computer really is just a simple machine that executes 
instructions given to it and not some horribly complex magic box that 
nobody knows about.  I'm not seriously suggesting people use such 
systems for normal computing, just that they should be used for early 
introduction to computers so that people have a hands on practical  
introduction to computers and software on a simple easily understood 
system. so they can learn the basic overall concepts that they can apply 
to larger more modern systems.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)




From farna at att.net  Thu Aug  6 08:08:40 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:08:40 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
Message-ID: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>

I don't know about UPS, but obviously you're not referring to the "New 
Coke" fiasco back in the 80s! You can change the look of the bottle, but 
don't mess with the contents! RS can be TS, just keep the small pieces 
and parts you can't get anywhere else in most towns. A few have 
specialty radio/electronic parts stores, but they can be hard to find. 
Mail order takes a while! I used a generic 12 port molex connector when 
I wired my car stereo years ago so I wouldn't have any trouble changing 
it out. Not cut and spliced wires (car is a customized 63 Rambler, so no 
factory connector), just get a male molex connector and put it in the 
factory stereo harness. So if I do that again (just got the last one 
from the local RS) I'll have to mail order a connector from somewhere. 
Maybe RS will keep the "file drawer" parts they stock now. Not many, but 
better than nothing. Too bad they don't realize they don't sell many of 
those parts anymore because they don't keep stock up, or stock enough! 
Just the most popular ones won't do, you need all the parts for a 
project, not everything but one or two parts! They decided to focus on 
retail sales and keep a few parts as a side-line. Not too bad, but there 
were already lots of retail places -- Circuit City (worked for them!), 
Best Buy, etc. Why get in competition with them? Oh well, someone else's 
decision. --------- Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:26:30 -0500 From: Roger 
Taylor <operator at coco3.com>

> >Nothing like taking 80 years of brand name build up and flushing it 
> >down the toilet. This ranks as one of the worst corporate decisions ever...
>   


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Coca-Cola and UPS both made changes 
right before their 100th anniversary?  This works for huge companies, 
but you're probably right that it doesn't seem smart for RS who's 
already changed their logo recently, unless I'm getting old and it 
just seems like it was a few years ago.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Thu Aug  6 14:18:58 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:18:58 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
Message-ID: <FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>

Hi,
Here in Silicon Valley, it is no better.

>From a high of over two dozen electronic surplus stores, the number has 
shrunk to three and I expect the number to go to zero soon.

Five years ago I made one of my last trips to the surplus store that was 
perhaps the first one here, and has moved five times.
There was a sign outside I read from the expressway that another move was 
going to happen about a year ago. It did not move.
I noted that all of the IC boxes were upside down indicating no stock.

I have in my electronics room more parts that can be used by experimenters 
than I saw in the store perhaps.

Some continue online, Jameco has become the number one place to get parts 
like I could get by walking into just about any one of the two dozen years 
ago. Web orders only now, but I am able to drive toward San Francisco to 
pick up the order. The last time I paid more for the shipping than the part 
ordered.
---------------------------- 
Why did the parts disappear?

Simple, the companies that were selling the excess parts to the surplus 
stores are no longer using them.
And the companies that bought them no longer have any need to buy them.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Swygert" <farna at att.net>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


>  just keep the small pieces and parts you can't get anywhere else in most 
> towns. > -- 
> Frank Swygert



From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 14:36:41 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
Message-ID: <531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just about all electronics these days are disposable. It's cheaper to buy a new one than fix the old.

I bought a Vivitar digital camera a few years ago for $100. I cracked the LCD display and called to see how much it cost to fix. They said $150 plus labor. I tossed it in the trash.

But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than $10,000 in 2009 dollars). Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.






________________________________
From: Stephen H. Fischer <SFischer1 at Mindspring.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:18:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

Hi,
Here in Silicon Valley, it is no better.

> From a high of over two dozen electronic surplus stores, the number has 
shrunk to three and I expect the number to go to zero soon.

Five years ago I made one of my last trips to the surplus store that was perhaps the first one here, and has moved five times.
There was a sign outside I read from the expressway that another move was going to happen about a year ago. It did not move.
I noted that all of the IC boxes were upside down indicating no stock.

I have in my electronics room more parts that can be used by experimenters than I saw in the store perhaps.

Some continue online, Jameco has become the number one place to get parts like I could get by walking into just about any one of the two dozen years ago. Web orders only now, but I am able to drive toward San Francisco to pick up the order. The last time I paid more for the shipping than the part ordered.
---------------------------- Why did the parts disappear?

Simple, the companies that were selling the excess parts to the surplus stores are no longer using them.
And the companies that bought them no longer have any need to buy them.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Swygert" <farna at att.net>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


>  just keep the small pieces and parts you can't get anywhere else in most towns. > -- Frank Swygert


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 15:23:11 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:23:11 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>	<FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com>

Bill Cousert wrote:
> But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than $10,000 in 2009 dollars). 

5 grands? I don't think so. Here are the 1979 prices:

TRS-80 Model I System w/ 16K RAM Level II....... $988 (includes monitor)
Expansion Interface w/ 32K RAM............................ $697
Disk Drive #0........................................................... 
$499 (includes TRS-DOS)
Disk Drive #1........................................................... 
$499

That's "only" $2,683. And in 1980, the first two item were about $100 
cheaper ($849 and $597 respectively). On the other hand, I agree that 
some printers were quite expensive (ranging from $220 to $1600).

> Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.
>   

Well, in terms of money, it looks like it makes sense. But the cheap 
prices don't make up for the huge, growing electronic waste problem that 
the world is facing. Moreover, we no longer can buy "Made in the USA" 
(or Canada, Australia, France, UK, etc.) consumer electronic devices, 
which means we "benefit" from some other people's cheap labor in other 
parts of the world... probably the same people to whom we ship some of 
our hazardous electronic waste.




From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Thu Aug  6 15:46:20 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>

Hi,

You are missing my point, how is the next generation of Electrical Engineers 
going to get started?

I got my first interest in electronics in a very small town (~700) in 
Wisconsin where there was a TV store and repair business I worked for a 
short time.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Cousert" <wrcousert at yahoo.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


> Just about all electronics these days are disposable. It's cheaper to buy 
> a new one than fix the old.



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 16:13:59 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:13:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908061613.59953.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>Hi,
>
>You are missing my point, how is the next generation of Electrical Engineers
>going to get started?

That is the pure heart of the matter right there Stephen, at least for the 
sort of engineer I was/am, one who wasn't then a board swapper, but ran the 
problem down to the part that failed and replaced that part.  I was quite 
adept with a scope probe by the time I celebrated my 17th birthday, and a 
month or so worth of 9th grade was as far as I got, I went out to fix tv's for 
a living.

>I got my first interest in electronics in a very small town (~700) in
>Wisconsin where there was a TV store and repair business I worked for a
>short time.

Chuckle, my town was over in Iowa, about 250 people, had a hardware store that 
sold the first tv ever sold there in town.  As for service shop, nada, this 15 
year old boy was already fixing the simpler stuff, and probably did at least 
20% of the fixing that was done, the rest were usually shoved in the trunk and 
taken to some shop in Des Moines IA, about 50 miles or a little less.  I fixed 
that first tv a couple of times, an RCA 630TS.

[...]

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

And furthermore, my bowling average is unimpeachable!!!



From alsplace at pobox.com  Thu Aug  6 16:30:38 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:30:38 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908061613.59953.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>
	<200908061613.59953.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B3F73CD8-AAD9-485B-A7A8-65BD0ED6F792@pobox.com>

What Iowa town, Gene?


From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 16:35:44 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:35:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <587425.76120.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My memory is a little corrupted. I had a friend who had spent about $5k on a similar system. Maybe it was the printer that made up the difference.

How will engineers get their start? I don't know. As time goes on, I'm certain we'll see this trend continue. Some people think we'll be soon using 3D printers to create our own electronics at home. When they break we'll toss them in the compost pile and print out another one. The Rep Rap (http://www.reprap.org) may be the first generation of that 3D printer. Click on the URL and watch the video if you have a few minutes.






________________________________
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:23:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

Bill Cousert wrote:
> But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than $10,000 in 2009 dollars). 

5 grands? I don't think so. Here are the 1979 prices:

TRS-80 Model I System w/ 16K RAM Level II....... $988 (includes monitor)
Expansion Interface w/ 32K RAM............................ $697
Disk Drive #0........................................................... $499 (includes TRS-DOS)
Disk Drive #1........................................................... $499

That's "only" $2,683. And in 1980, the first two item were about $100 cheaper ($849 and $597 respectively). On the other hand, I agree that some printers were quite expensive (ranging from $220 to $1600).

> Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.
>  

Well, in terms of money, it looks like it makes sense. But the cheap prices don't make up for the huge, growing electronic waste problem that the world is facing. Moreover, we no longer can buy "Made in the USA" (or Canada, Australia, France, UK, etc.) consumer electronic devices, which means we "benefit" from some other people's cheap labor in other parts of the world... probably the same people to whom we ship some of our hazardous electronic waste.



--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 17:07:55 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:07:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <B3F73CD8-AAD9-485B-A7A8-65BD0ED6F792@pobox.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908061613.59953.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<B3F73CD8-AAD9-485B-A7A8-65BD0ED6F792@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Allen Huffman wrote:
>What Iowa town, Gene?

Redfield, home of the "Redfield Reds" brickyards.  2 of them back then, no 
idea if there is still a brickyard there now.  One of them was slowly 
undermining the northwest edge of town 60 years ago.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

You should never bet against anything in science at odds of more than
about 10^12 to 1.
		-- Ernest Rutherford



From t.fadden at cox.net  Thu Aug  6 17:20:32 2009
From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:20:32 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<873803E7A9BF438AA21BE87C7E0A4107@Shasta>
Message-ID: <4A7B4920.7080302@cox.net>

Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You are missing my point, how is the next generation of Electrical 
> Engineers going to get started?
>
> I got my first interest in electronics in a very small town (~700) in 
> Wisconsin where there was a TV store and repair business I worked for 
> a short time.
>
> SHF
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cousert" <wrcousert at yahoo.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>
>> Just about all electronics these days are disposable. It's cheaper to 
>> buy a new one than fix the old.
>
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
Thats an easy answer!  From 3rd world countries where all the electronic 
scrap is shipped, and put in huge dumps to be scavenged.  I watched a tv 
show a while back showing this and of the many entrepenures that 
scavenge, the stuff, fix it up, and sell it.  I wouldn't be surprised if 
some of the old electronic parts on ebay didn't get shipped back here 
from there! hahaha  The US is going down the tubes, and is already a 
mere shadow of its former self.

Tim Fadden


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Thu Aug  6 19:21:37 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:21:37 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908061613.59953.gene.heskett@verizon.net><B3F73CD8-AAD9-485B-A7A8-65BD0ED6F792@pobox.com>
	<200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta>

Hi,

> undermining the northwest edge of town

I can one up you on that.

They want to change the course of the river in mine.

WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.

http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.html

Click on the ">".

Then click on "Next"

Then click on "Click here for view of best buy plan 3"

Just look for the Red car on the right.

I could put my ice skates, cross highway 69 and skate many miles upstream. I 
only fell through the ice once.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Cc: "Allen Huffman" <alsplace at pobox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Allen Huffman wrote:
>>What Iowa town, Gene?
>
> Redfield, home of the "Redfield Reds" brickyards.  2 of them back then, no
> idea if there is still a brickyard there now.  One of them was slowly
> undermining the northwest edge of town 60 years ago.
>
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 21:57:28 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:57:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> undermining the northwest edge of town
>
>I can one up you on that.
>
>They want to change the course of the river in mine.
>
>WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
>
>http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.html
>
Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to download an 
x-director application of some sort in order to play it.  Maybe I'm being 
paranoid, but at the moment I'm running on an older BEFSR41 router, and I 
don't trust anything generated by windows.

>Click on the ">".
>
>Then click on "Next"
>
>Then click on "Click here for view of best buy plan 3"
>
>Just look for the Red car on the right.
>
>I could put my ice skates, cross highway 69 and skate many miles upstream. I
>only fell through the ice once.
>
>SHF
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Cc: "Allen Huffman" <alsplace at pobox.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Allen Huffman wrote:
>>>What Iowa town, Gene?
>>
>> Redfield, home of the "Redfield Reds" brickyards.  2 of them back then, no
>> idea if there is still a brickyard there now.  One of them was slowly
>> undermining the northwest edge of town 60 years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Gene
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Atlanta makes it against the law to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole
or street lamp.



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Thu Aug  6 23:03:43 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:03:43 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net><4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta>
	<200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <643B2C8F5FAE48428B13F09EBE5951FB@Shasta>

Hi,

I suspected that you might have problems.

I really would like to convert Belle2 to some more reasonable format.

So far, no luck. When it disappears from the web I will have no way of 
looking at it.

As far as I can tell, the congress has stopped funding "pork" projects.

Perhaps it might be converted to a "stimulus" program as it appears ready to 
go.

Even the town has some people unhappy that they would get too little 
dredging for their part of the cost.

When I lived there the water was ~ 3 feet deep, the U of WI study and the 
army planned to dredge just a small part in the middle for the fish.

The depth of the "Mill Pond" might be only one foot deep now.

I did ask for the original pictures which the army sent to me so I do have 
the current / before the project is done, pictures of my childhood home.

But there are 3-4 other Shockwave pictures in the set of other locations I 
would like to keep.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>> undermining the northwest edge of town
>>
>>I can one up you on that.
>>
>>They want to change the course of the river in mine.
>>
>>WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
>>
>>http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.html
>>
> Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to download 
> an
> x-director application of some sort in order to play it.  Maybe I'm being
> paranoid, but at the moment I'm running on an older BEFSR41 router, and I
> don't trust anything generated by windows.
>
>>Click on the ">".
>>
>>Then click on "Next"
>>
>>Then click on "Click here for view of best buy plan 3"
>>
>>Just look for the Red car on the right.
>>
>>I could put my ice skates, cross highway 69 and skate many miles upstream. 
>>I
>>only fell through the ice once.
>>
>>SHF
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>>To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>>Cc: "Allen Huffman" <alsplace at pobox.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:07 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>
>>> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Allen Huffman wrote:
>>>>What Iowa town, Gene?
>>>
>>> Redfield, home of the "Redfield Reds" brickyards.  2 of them back then, 
>>> no
>>> idea if there is still a brickyard there now.  One of them was slowly
>>> undermining the northwest edge of town 60 years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers, Gene



From PaulH96636 at aol.com  Thu Aug  6 23:42:01 2009
From: PaulH96636 at aol.com (PaulH96636 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:42:01 EDT
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
Message-ID: <ca0.58b2864d.37acfc89@aol.com>

Very cool panoramic 360 views.     -ph


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug  7 00:59:22 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:59:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <643B2C8F5FAE48428B13F09EBE5951FB@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<643B2C8F5FAE48428B13F09EBE5951FB@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908070059.22731.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I suspected that you might have problems.
>
>I really would like to convert Belle2 to some more reasonable format.
>
Belle2?  Never heard of such an animal.  Am I living in a cave or something?

>So far, no luck. When it disappears from the web I will have no way of
>looking at it.
>
>As far as I can tell, the congress has stopped funding "pork" projects.
>
>Perhaps it might be converted to a "stimulus" program as it appears ready to
>go.
>
>Even the town has some people unhappy that they would get too little
>dredging for their part of the cost.
>
>When I lived there the water was ~ 3 feet deep, the U of WI study and the
>army planned to dredge just a small part in the middle for the fish.
>
>The depth of the "Mill Pond" might be only one foot deep now.

That will give a winter kill for sure.

>I did ask for the original pictures which the army sent to me so I do have
>the current / before the project is done, pictures of my childhood home.

Yeah, I stopped by the house daddy built right after WW-II, and I wired when I 
was about 12 or 13, while on my way back from saying goodbye to my oldest 
daughter (cancer) back in the fall of 2007.  The new owners had remodeled 
some, and finally got tired of crawling into the attic to replace blown fuses 
and swapped it out for a new 200 amp service just a year before I stopped.  
Someone had added a front porch on the road facing end of it in the 
intervening years.  We had a chuckle over that as they now know who to blame 
for that wiring job.  But it was legal at the time!  The shingles were in good 
shape, but the ridgeline has about a 6" sag in the middle, not bad for an 
amateur built house that was 60 years old in 2007.  Could I ever go 'home'?  
No, too much else has changed on that 2 or 3 acres in 60 years.  All of 
daddies peach orchard on the north side is gone, probably from lack of care, 
and the strawberry patch is now a loop thru driveway.

>But there are 3-4 other Shockwave pictures in the set of other locations I
>would like to keep.

Yeah, I know that feeling all too well.

>SHF

I might brave it tomorrow sometime, I found my 2nd 512 meg CF card for dd-wrt, 
it booted, so I wrote the sp2 image to it and that boots too.  But I haven't 
cabled it up yet, getting late.

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>> undermining the northwest edge of town
>>>
>>>I can one up you on that.
>>>
>>>They want to change the course of the river in mine.
>>>
>>>WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
>>>
>>>http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.html
>>
>> Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to download
>> an
>> x-director application of some sort in order to play it.  Maybe I'm being
>> paranoid, but at the moment I'm running on an older BEFSR41 router, and I
>> don't trust anything generated by windows.
>>
>>>Click on the ">".
>>>
>>>Then click on "Next"
>>>
>>>Then click on "Click here for view of best buy plan 3"
>>>
>>>Just look for the Red car on the right.
>>>
>>>I could put my ice skates, cross highway 69 and skate many miles upstream.
>>>I
>>>only fell through the ice once.
>>>
>>>SHF
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>>>To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>>>Cc: "Allen Huffman" <alsplace at pobox.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:07 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>>
>>>> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Allen Huffman wrote:
>>>>>What Iowa town, Gene?
>>>>
>>>> Redfield, home of the "Redfield Reds" brickyards.  2 of them back then,
>>>> no
>>>> idea if there is still a brickyard there now.  One of them was slowly
>>>> undermining the northwest edge of town 60 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers, Gene
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

"90% of everything is crap", Its called Sturgeon's law 8)                     
One of the problems is indeed finding the good bits

	- Alan Cox



From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Fri Aug  7 05:40:50 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:40:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net><4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta>
	<200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>

>> WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
==============================================
> Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to
> download an x-director application of some sort in order to play it.
===============================================
It won't run on my Windows XP 64 bit Pro machine on Firefox either.  Even 
after I upgraded Adobe Shockwave and told NoScript that it was O.K. to run 
it.

If it is that intrusive, It is not needed.  They/he can use a more standard 
format.

Bruce W. 



From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug  7 11:46:35 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:46:35 -0500
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <587425.76120.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>	<FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com>
	<587425.76120.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C4C5B.8000004@sbcglobal.net>

Kinda like a crude Star Trek Replicator.

John Donaldson






Bill Cousert wrote:
> My memory is a little corrupted. I had a friend who had spent about $5k on a similar system. Maybe it was the printer that made up the difference.
>
> How will engineers get their start? I don't know. As time goes on, I'm certain we'll see this trend continue. Some people think we'll be soon using 3D printers to create our own electronics at home. When they break we'll toss them in the compost pile and print out another one. The Rep Rap (http://www.reprap.org) may be the first generation of that 3D printer. Click on the URL and watch the video if you have a few minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:23:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
> Bill Cousert wrote:
>   
>> But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than $10,000 in 2009 dollars). 
>>     
>
> 5 grands? I don't think so. Here are the 1979 prices:
>
> TRS-80 Model I System w/ 16K RAM Level II....... $988 (includes monitor)
> Expansion Interface w/ 32K RAM............................ $697
> Disk Drive #0........................................................... $499 (includes TRS-DOS)
> Disk Drive #1........................................................... $499
>
> That's "only" $2,683. And in 1980, the first two item were about $100 cheaper ($849 and $597 respectively). On the other hand, I agree that some printers were quite expensive (ranging from $220 to $1600).
>
>   
>> Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.
>>  
>>     
>
> Well, in terms of money, it looks like it makes sense. But the cheap prices don't make up for the huge, growing electronic waste problem that the world is facing. Moreover, we no longer can buy "Made in the USA" (or Canada, Australia, France, UK, etc.) consumer electronic devices, which means we "benefit" from some other people's cheap labor in other parts of the world... probably the same people to whom we ship some of our hazardous electronic waste.
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   


-- 


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug  7 12:10:06 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:10:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
Message-ID: <200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 07 August 2009, Bruce W. Calkins wrote:
>>> WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
>
>==============================================
>
>> Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to
>> download an x-director application of some sort in order to play it.
>
>===============================================
>It won't run on my Windows XP 64 bit Pro machine on Firefox either.  Even
>after I upgraded Adobe Shockwave and told NoScript that it was O.K. to run
>it.
>
>If it is that intrusive, It is not needed.  They/he can use a more standard
>format.
>
>Bruce W.
>
Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but this is 
typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to make the 
data available to the public.  They will carefully research what is available, 
and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so obscure 
that no one has the secret decoder ring.  And of course we didn't get the memo 
either.  :(

>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Portable, adj.:
	Survives system reboot.



From adit at nationsdial.com  Fri Aug  7 15:56:42 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:56:42 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
References: <266BB460-4EA1-42DE-98E7-FB606281A34D@verizon.net>	<016EA52641A04E4FBD9F4915FAE5877C@Dell3Gig>	<4A364493.5090107@mindspring.com>	<000901c9edbc$bc3f7640$34be62c0$@rr.com>	<4A366833.4060100@mindspring.com><000001c9eddb$1c9afd70$55d0f850$@rr.com><4A369495.7040601@mindspring.com><BCD8B15756204D2A8ECE997D3357BEEA@Dell3Gig><12CDA2D9F590448191CE291639EBC4F1@Dell3Gig><238D7A1C552D4EA1BFCC7CC2074C2F4B@Dell3Gig><07BB860985DC4EEF91B5D4C5A6A5541A@Dell3Gig><014E2268C8C94EE39766F0E51CCC62B1@Dell3Gig><0EFA1FD1-AC86-4C8E-81DE-F18240079B46@nationsdial.com>
	<0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>
	<9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <8C96A31D-044D-479C-8DBE-9CF1DBE63AE9@nationsdial.com>


On Aug 1, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Paul Fitch wrote:

>  I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues intot he database  
> right now,
> and there is an add in the 1st issue for another magazine I never  
> heard of,
> "the Coco Clipboard".  Did this ever get published?  Has anyone  
> scanned them
> yet?
>
>

Yes, the CoCoClipboard is archived in the CoCo/OS-9 archive. Is it up  
on maltedmedia?  I haven't checked lately. There are a few issues  
missing and I'm not sure when they ceased publishing. From the Index  
in the archive:

Readme

CoCo Clipboard was a Color Computer Magazine Published from Sept 1987  
thru at least April 1990. Unfortunately I do not know what the last  
issue is. If you have any further issues or the missing issues please  
contact the archivists.

NOTE:
The PDF files were created out of TIFF image files and are mostly Bit  
Map for readability. Some images are grayscale/color as warranted.   
All Volume 1 issues & Vol 3 Issue 4 were provided as xeroxes, so the  
quality of the images may be lower than expected.

CoCo Clipboard Index

Clipboard_V01N01 - Vol 1 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1987)
Clipboard_V01N02 - Vol 1 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1987)
Clipboard_V01N03 - Vol 1 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1988)
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1988)
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.5 (May/Jun 1988) ** MISSING **
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.6 (Jul/Ayg 1988) ** MISSING **

Clipboard_V02N01 - Vol 2 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1988)
Clipboard_V02N02 - Vol 2 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1988)
Clipboard_V02N03 - Vol 2 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1989)
Clipboard_V02N04 - Vol 2 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1989)
Clipboard_V02N05 - Vol 2 No.5 (May/Jun 1989)
Clipboard_V02N06 - Vol 2 No.6 (Jul/Aug 1989)

Clipboard_V03N01 - Vol 3 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1989)
Clipboard_V03N02 - Vol 3 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1989)
Clipboard_V03N03 - Vol 3 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1990)
Clipboard_V03N04 - Vol 3 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1990)
   ** UNKNOWN How Many Issues were Published **


From adit at nationsdial.com  Fri Aug  7 15:56:55 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:56:55 -0700
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
Message-ID: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>



Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears that there is  
still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs that  
Glenside sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making it  
up to maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.

Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to Maltedmedia (be  
warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is  already up  
there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to take care of  
that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try and sort  
out what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any takers for U/ 
L duty? I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me to U/L  
that amount of data.

Dean


From cwgordon at carolina.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 16:22:07 2009
From: cwgordon at carolina.rr.com (Bill)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:22:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>
Message-ID: <002c01ca179c$bcf39ee0$36dadca0$@rr.com>

I could help. I have a good deal of HD space available. Plus I have
high-speed cable

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Dean Leiber
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive



Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears that there is  
still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs that  
Glenside sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making it  
up to maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.

Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to Maltedmedia (be  
warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is  already up  
there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to take care of  
that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try and sort  
out what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any takers for U/ 
L duty? I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me to U/L  
that amount of data.



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug  7 16:48:00 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:48:00 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908061707.55843.gene.heskett@verizon.net><4E6159474F94456B93C5D23DC2942FE7@Shasta><200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
Message-ID: <40793B8DE2EA4964B7B0B8AD2E95B1A4@Shasta>

Hi,

You want to fight the United States Army?

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce W. Calkins" <brucewcalkins at charter.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


>>> WARNING "Adobe Shockwave Player" required.
> ==============================================
>> Sorry, that must be a winderz only file format, firefox wants to
>> download an x-director application of some sort in order to play it.
> ===============================================
> It won't run on my Windows XP 64 bit Pro machine on Firefox either.  Even 
> after I upgraded Adobe Shockwave and told NoScript that it was O.K. to run 
> it.
>
> If it is that intrusive, It is not needed.  They/he can use a more 
> standard format.
>
> Bruce W.



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug  7 16:44:31 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:44:31 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <ca0.58b2864d.37acfc89@aol.com>
References: <ca0.58b2864d.37acfc89@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FB3B4B7B86084156969CFEF5D96ED37A@Shasta>

Hi,

You can imagine the sheer pleasure in discovering pictures of my childhood
home on the web.

Prior to that I had to wait 2 years until MS Terra server got around to
displaying Belleville, WI.

I immediately thought the Satellite took the pictures during the spring
flood, that's the source of the silt that is slowly filling up the lake.

The army project pictures did not change the idea of the spring flood time
period, but when I got the original pictures I realized that the narrow
islands with trees where the line of rocks would separate the lake from the
river had been washed away during the ~ 40 years I have been away.

The MS Terra server view of Belleville, WI shows the path of the river to be
changed at the narrow neck of the peninsula which was dredged many decades
ago to create an island so that electricity could be generated. A later
higher dam was built thus creating the lake and more power.

I even have taken a drive along some of the village streets and west to the
Argue farm where my mother was born using Google Street View.
--------------------------------------- 

Breaking News I discovered while writing this message!

Village of Belleville, WI LAKE GENERAL INFORMATION
http://www.bellevillewi.org/pages/lakegeninfo.cfm

The project might actually be done.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <PaulH96636 at aol.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


> Very cool panoramic 360 views. -ph
>
> --



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug  7 16:57:03 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:57:03 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net><C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
	<200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...



> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but this 
> is
> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to make 
> the
> data available to the public.  They will carefully research what is 
> available,
> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so 
> obscure
> that no one has the secret decoder ring.  And of course we didn't get the 
> memo
> either.  :(

What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001% of 
the market?

There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight one.

I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could only 
find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.

SHF



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 17:23:51 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:23:51 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy>
	<200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Stephen H.
Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>
>
>> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but this
>> is
>> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to make
>> the
>> data available to the public. ?They will carefully research what is
>> available,
>> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so
>> obscure
>> that no one has the secret decoder ring. ?And of course we didn't get the
>> memo
>> either. ?:(
>
> What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001% of
> the market?
>
> There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight one.
>
> I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could only
> find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.
>
> SHF

Most things that use Shockwave or other proprietary formats can be
done using open, standard tools.  From what I saw of the presentation
(it did not work 100% for me) it did nothing that couldn't have been
implemented in HTML/javascript.  Of course js is not quite an open
standard, but certainly more so than shockwave or silverlight.

The upcoming HTML 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5) hold much
promise for making these proprietary formats unnecessary.  It will be
interesting to see what direction the online world takes.

-Aaron


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug  7 17:35:15 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:35:15 -0500
Subject: [Coco] What happened to site?
Message-ID: <4A7C9E13.7070409@sbcglobal.net>

I did not sign up correctly to the CoCo4 web page the first time. And
did not register again, but  the site now only shows address not found.
What happened?

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug  7 17:38:01 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:38:01 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908062157.28952.gene.heskett@verizon.net><C09D347E6A5F419687921C1805965710@speedy><200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net><E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
	<e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DCC6B2FD4234961B0F6D25007D9E5D9@Shasta>

Do you have any actual programs that can extract the panoramic views to Tiff 
or JPG.

I tried printing the screen but I was very unhappy with the results.

I do have software that can stitch individual pictures together which I did 
with the before pictures.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Wolfe" <aawolfe at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...


On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Stephen H.
Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:

Most things that use Shockwave or other proprietary formats can be
done using open, standard tools.  From what I saw of the presentation
(it did not work 100% for me) it did nothing that couldn't have been
implemented in HTML/javascript.  Of course js is not quite an open
standard, but certainly more so than shockwave or silverlight.

The upcoming HTML 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5) hold much
promise for making these proprietary formats unnecessary.  It will be
interesting to see what direction the online world takes.

-Aaron



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug  7 17:40:31 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:40:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 07 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but this
>> is
>> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to make
>> the
>> data available to the public.  They will carefully research what is
>> available,
>> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so
>> obscure
>> that no one has the secret decoder ring.  And of course we didn't get the
>> memo
>> either.  :(
>
>What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001% of
>the market?
>
>There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight one.
>
>I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could only
>find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.
>
>SHF

Those we have, so flash is no problem, and if I wanted to be an outlaw, there 
is probably a silverlight codec grabbable from someplace where our patents are 
considered to be just so much TP.  But if the format is Belle2, what wrapper 
do we use to strip it back down to flash?

>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

"We'll look into it":
	By the time the wheels make a full turn, we
	assume you will have forgotten about it, too.



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug  7 17:45:25 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:45:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
	<e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908071745.26041.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 07 August 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Stephen H.
>
>Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett"
>> <gene.heskett at verizon.net> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts"
>> <coco at maltedmedia.com> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>
>>> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but
>>> this is
>>> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to
>>> make the
>>> data available to the public.  They will carefully research what is
>>> available,
>>> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so
>>> obscure
>>> that no one has the secret decoder ring.  And of course we didn't get the
>>> memo
>>> either.  :(
>>
>> What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001% of
>> the market?
>>
>> There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight
>> one.
>>
>> I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could
>> only find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.
>>
>> SHF
>
>Most things that use Shockwave or other proprietary formats can be
>done using open, standard tools.  From what I saw of the presentation
>(it did not work 100% for me) it did nothing that couldn't have been
>implemented in HTML/javascript.  Of course js is not quite an open
>standard, but certainly more so than shockwave or silverlight.
>
>The upcoming HTML 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5) hold much
>promise for making these proprietary formats unnecessary.  It will be
>interesting to see what direction the online world takes.
>
>-Aaron
>
Probably wrong Aaron, html-5 will not solve the problem because it will not 
officially set a codec standard, not even in the mud, let alone stone.  
Everybody on the committee has an axe to sharpen, and no one would give ground 
to a competitors product.  Theora has promise, so does mp4, but they simply 
couldn't agree, so they agreed to disagree, and that language has been removed 
from html-5 as it stands, as of 2 weeks or so ago.
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

For God's sake, stop researching for a while and begin to think!



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Fri Aug  7 18:49:25 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:49:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <8C96A31D-044D-479C-8DBE-9CF1DBE63AE9@nationsdial.com>
References: <266BB460-4EA1-42DE-98E7-FB606281A34D@verizon.net>	<016EA52641A04E4FBD9F4915FAE5877C@Dell3Gig>	<4A364493.5090107@mindspring.com>	<000901c9edbc$bc3f7640$34be62c0$@rr.com>	<4A366833.4060100@mindspring.com><000001c9eddb$1c9afd70$55d0f850$@rr.com><4A369495.7040601@mindspring.com><BCD8B15756204D2A8ECE997D3357BEEA@Dell3Gig><12CDA2D9F590448191CE291639EBC4F1@Dell3Gig><238D7A1C552D4EA1BFCC7CC2074C2F4B@Dell3Gig><07BB860985DC4EEF91B5D4C5A6A5541A@Dell3Gig><014E2268C8C94EE39766F0E51CCC62B1@Dell3Gig><0EFA1FD1-AC86-4C8E-81DE-F18240079B46@nationsdial.com>	<0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>	<9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
	<8C96A31D-044D-479C-8DBE-9CF1DBE63AE9@nationsdial.com>
Message-ID: <00d401ca17b1$50bf3940$f23dabc0$@com>

Clipboard_V03N04 - Vol 3 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1990)

That was the last issue...

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Dean Leiber
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes


On Aug 1, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Paul Fitch wrote:

>  I'm inputting "The Gamers Connection" issues intot he database  
> right now,
> and there is an add in the 1st issue for another magazine I never  
> heard of,
> "the Coco Clipboard".  Did this ever get published?  Has anyone  
> scanned them
> yet?
>
>

Yes, the CoCoClipboard is archived in the CoCo/OS-9 archive. Is it up  
on maltedmedia?  I haven't checked lately. There are a few issues  
missing and I'm not sure when they ceased publishing. From the Index  
in the archive:

Readme

CoCo Clipboard was a Color Computer Magazine Published from Sept 1987  
thru at least April 1990. Unfortunately I do not know what the last  
issue is. If you have any further issues or the missing issues please  
contact the archivists.

NOTE:
The PDF files were created out of TIFF image files and are mostly Bit  
Map for readability. Some images are grayscale/color as warranted.   
All Volume 1 issues & Vol 3 Issue 4 were provided as xeroxes, so the  
quality of the images may be lower than expected.

CoCo Clipboard Index

Clipboard_V01N01 - Vol 1 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1987)
Clipboard_V01N02 - Vol 1 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1987)
Clipboard_V01N03 - Vol 1 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1988)
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1988)
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.5 (May/Jun 1988) ** MISSING **
Clipboard_V01N04 - Vol 1 No.6 (Jul/Ayg 1988) ** MISSING **

Clipboard_V02N01 - Vol 2 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1988)
Clipboard_V02N02 - Vol 2 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1988)
Clipboard_V02N03 - Vol 2 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1989)
Clipboard_V02N04 - Vol 2 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1989)
Clipboard_V02N05 - Vol 2 No.5 (May/Jun 1989)
Clipboard_V02N06 - Vol 2 No.6 (Jul/Aug 1989)

Clipboard_V03N01 - Vol 3 No.1 (Sept/Oct 1989)
Clipboard_V03N02 - Vol 3 No.2 (Nov/Dec 1989)
Clipboard_V03N03 - Vol 3 No.3 (Jan/Feb 1990)
Clipboard_V03N04 - Vol 3 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1990)
   ** UNKNOWN How Many Issues were Published **

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2284 - Release Date: 08/07/09
06:22:00



From adit at nationsdial.com  Fri Aug  7 21:05:36 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:05:36 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <00d401ca17b1$50bf3940$f23dabc0$@com>
References: <266BB460-4EA1-42DE-98E7-FB606281A34D@verizon.net>	<016EA52641A04E4FBD9F4915FAE5877C@Dell3Gig>	<4A364493.5090107@mindspring.com>	<000901c9edbc$bc3f7640$34be62c0$@rr.com>	<4A366833.4060100@mindspring.com><000001c9eddb$1c9afd70$55d0f850$@rr.com><4A369495.7040601@mindspring.com><BCD8B15756204D2A8ECE997D3357BEEA@Dell3Gig><12CDA2D9F590448191CE291639EBC4F1@Dell3Gig><238D7A1C552D4EA1BFCC7CC2074C2F4B@Dell3Gig><07BB860985DC4EEF91B5D4C5A6A5541A@Dell3Gig><014E2268C8C94EE39766F0E51CCC62B1@Dell3Gig><0EFA1FD1-AC86-4C8E-81DE-F18240079B46@nationsdial.com>	<0915D890CD964BEB9E5E533A687D847F@Dell3Gig>	<9F59442A18CE4271A0C4EF50944AD79E@Dell3Gig>
	<8C96A31D-044D-479C-8DBE-9CF1DBE63AE9@nationsdial.com>
	<00d401ca17b1$50bf3940$f23dabc0$@com>
Message-ID: <B5C13EC2-20AC-43B7-95CB-F2BCE127C746@nationsdial.com>


On Aug 7, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Tom Seagrove wrote:

> Clipboard_V03N04 - Vol 3 No.4 (Mar/Apr 1990)
>
> That was the last issue...
>
> Tom

Thanks Tom!

I'll make a note of it!

Dean


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug  7 23:43:36 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:43:36 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net><E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
	<200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>

I had to get my old XP laptop out as I do not know where the Temp Internet 
files are in Vista.

The file appears to be from this:
http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.dcr

It is 13,136KB It gets a little bigger when zipped.

belle2.dcr I found in Temp Internet files.

When I copied it the name was changed to belle2[1].dir

The "[1]" can be removed but why dcr changed to dir?

Vista cannot handle dir, dcr starts Adobe Shockwave.

I tried a couple of years ago to try and download a trial version of some 
Adobe software and got into a loop and could not get out and gave up.

------------------------- 

>From a search for " adobe .dcr" I found the following:

File extension DCR description:
Default file extension for Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Director data file.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

>
> Those we have, so flash is no problem, and if I wanted to be an outlaw, 
> there
> is probably a silverlight codec grabbable from someplace where our patents 
> are
> considered to be just so much TP. But if the format is Belle2, what 
> wrapper
> do we use to strip it back down to flash?



From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 00:47:04 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A7C4C5B.8000004@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta>
	<531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com>
	<587425.76120.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A7C4C5B.8000004@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <938934.76455.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Very crude, Right now it's limited to parts made out of plastic. The second generation unit will use other materials. Eventually they expect it to be able to build circuits. The goal is to create a unit that can build just about anything you can imagine, including copies of itself. a "Santa Claus Machine".You'll just need raw materials and some open source patterns.

I know, this is considerably off topic, but I think this is the future of electronics. The engineers and hobbyists will use cad software to design goodies for the rest of us to print out.





________________________________
From: John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 8:46:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

Kinda like a crude Star Trek Replicator.

John Donaldson






Bill Cousert wrote:
> My memory is a little corrupted. I had a friend who had spent about $5k on a similar system. Maybe it was the printer that made up the difference.
>
> How will engineers get their start? I don't know. As time goes on, I'm certain we'll see this trend continue. Some people think we'll be soon using 3D printers to create our own electronics at home. When they break we'll toss them in the compost pile and print out another one. The Rep Rap (http://www.reprap.org) may be the first generation of that 3D printer. Click on the URL and watch the video if you have a few minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:23:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
> Bill Cousert wrote:
>  
>> But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than $10,000 in 2009 dollars). 
>>    
>
> 5 grands? I don't think so. Here are the 1979 prices:
>
> TRS-80 Model I System w/ 16K RAM Level II....... $988 (includes monitor)
> Expansion Interface w/ 32K RAM............................ $697
> Disk Drive #0........................................................... $499 (includes TRS-DOS)
> Disk Drive #1........................................................... $499
>
> That's "only" $2,683. And in 1980, the first two item were about $100 cheaper ($849 and $597 respectively). On the other hand, I agree that some printers were quite expensive (ranging from $220 to $1600).
>
>  
>> Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.
>>  
>>    
>
> Well, in terms of money, it looks like it makes sense. But the cheap prices don't make up for the huge, growing electronic waste problem that the world is facing. Moreover, we no longer can buy "Made in the USA" (or Canada, Australia, France, UK, etc.) consumer electronic devices, which means we "benefit" from some other people's cheap labor in other parts of the world... probably the same people to whom we ship some of our hazardous electronic waste.
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>  


-- 

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:05:51 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 01:05:51 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <200908071745.26041.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta>
	<e44ad6640908071423p105cacb7p3377956306a8871e@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908071745.26041.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908072205k32222ff4r8819a2adc4ff699f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:
> On Friday 07 August 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Stephen H.
>>
>>Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett"
>>> <gene.heskett at verizon.net> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts"
>>> <coco at maltedmedia.com> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>>
>>>> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but
>>>> this is
>>>> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to
>>>> make the
>>>> data available to the public. ?They will carefully research what is
>>>> available,
>>>> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so
>>>> obscure
>>>> that no one has the secret decoder ring. ?And of course we didn't get the
>>>> memo
>>>> either. ?:(
>>>
>>> What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001% of
>>> the market?
>>>
>>> There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight
>>> one.
>>>
>>> I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could
>>> only find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.
>>>
>>> SHF
>>
>>Most things that use Shockwave or other proprietary formats can be
>>done using open, standard tools. ?From what I saw of the presentation
>>(it did not work 100% for me) it did nothing that couldn't have been
>>implemented in HTML/javascript. ?Of course js is not quite an open
>>standard, but certainly more so than shockwave or silverlight.
>>
>>The upcoming HTML 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5) hold much
>>promise for making these proprietary formats unnecessary. ?It will be
>>interesting to see what direction the online world takes.
>>
>>-Aaron
>>
> Probably wrong Aaron, html-5 will not solve the problem because it will not
> officially set a codec standard, not even in the mud, let alone stone.
> Everybody on the committee has an axe to sharpen, and no one would give ground
> to a competitors product. ?Theora has promise, so does mp4, but they simply
> couldn't agree, so they agreed to disagree, and that language has been removed
> from html-5 as it stands, as of 2 weeks or so ago.

while the removal of ogg support as a requirement is dissapointing, it
is still allowable to use the <audio> and <video> tags with ogg
content, just not mandated.  already firefox and opera have support
for ogg in this context.  it may turn out that, like other common
formats that over time have come to be widely supported (png being a
good example), the official standard will take a back seat to real
world usage.  time will tell.

for an application such as the presentation discussed in this thread,
which does not use video (unless there was some that just didn't work
for me :), html 5 will provide some interesting capabilities outside
of the codec situation.  specifically, the canvas tag provides
"dynamic scriptable rendering of bitmap images", which would encompass
everything I saw happening in this presentation.  of course there is
also controversy surrounding this new feature (gee thanks Apple)..
nothing is ever simple :)

-Aaron


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug  8 05:16:28 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:16:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <938934.76455.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><FE50F477A64742A9ABB8C15168DBA0CC@Shasta><531541.38770.qm@web38402.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A7B2D9F.6040404@gmail.com><587425.76120.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A7C4C5B.8000004@sbcglobal.net>
	<938934.76455.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8DD4F86BFAD94AD28B08E07CAE3E6E5C@Dell3Gig>

There is a lot you can do without electronics.  If you made the plactic
on-site recycleable, you could do some interesting things.  Like I hate
doing the dishes<g>.  So give me some patterns for spoons, knives, forks,
and tupperware!  When I'm done using them, I just drop them in the sorting
and cataloging bin, and poof, fresh replacements are made.

Give it a generation or two, combined with the bubble memory logic we were
talking about a couple of weeks ago, and some mini-method to forge metals
and you have the makings of a full on replicator technology.   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cousert
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> 
> Very crude, Right now it's limited to parts made out of 
> plastic. The second generation unit will use other materials. 
> Eventually they expect it to be able to build circuits. The 
> goal is to create a unit that can build just about anything 
> you can imagine, including copies of itself. a "Santa Claus 
> Machine".You'll just need raw materials and some open source patterns.
> 
> I know, this is considerably off topic, but I think this is 
> the future of electronics. The engineers and hobbyists will 
> use cad software to design goodies for the rest of us to print out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: John Donaldson <johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 8:46:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> 
> Kinda like a crude Star Trek Replicator.
> 
> John Donaldson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Cousert wrote:
> > My memory is a little corrupted. I had a friend who had 
> spent about $5k on a similar system. Maybe it was the printer 
> that made up the difference.
> >
> > How will engineers get their start? I don't know. As time 
> goes on, I'm certain we'll see this trend continue. Some 
> people think we'll be soon using 3D printers to create our 
> own electronics at home. When they break we'll toss them in 
> the compost pile and print out another one. The Rep Rap 
> (http://www.reprap.org) may be the first generation of that 
> 3D printer. Click on the URL and watch the video if you have 
> a few minutes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:23:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> >
> > Bill Cousert wrote:
> >  
> >> But I don't think the situation is as bad as it looks. 30 
> years ago, a TRS-80 model I with dual drives, expansion 
> interface and 48k RAM cost nearly $5,000 (probably more than 
> $10,000 in 2009 dollars). 
> >>    
> >
> > 5 grands? I don't think so. Here are the 1979 prices:
> >
> > TRS-80 Model I System w/ 16K RAM Level II....... $988 (includes 
> > monitor) Expansion Interface w/ 32K RAM............................ 
> > $697 Disk Drive 
> > #0........................................................... $499 
> > (includes TRS-DOS) Disk Drive 
> > #1........................................................... $499
> >
> > That's "only" $2,683. And in 1980, the first two item were 
> about $100 cheaper ($849 and $597 respectively). On the other 
> hand, I agree that some printers were quite expensive 
> (ranging from $220 to $1600).
> >
> >  
> >> Today I can get a really nice notebook computer for less 
> than $400. I think the savings more than make up for it.
> >>  
> >>    
> >
> > Well, in terms of money, it looks like it makes sense. But 
> the cheap prices don't make up for the huge, growing 
> electronic waste problem that the world is facing. Moreover, 
> we no longer can buy "Made in the USA" (or Canada, Australia, 
> France, UK, etc.) consumer electronic devices, which means we 
> "benefit" from some other people's cheap labor in other parts 
> of the world... probably the same people to whom we ship some 
> of our hazardous electronic waste.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug  8 05:19:18 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:19:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>
Message-ID: <C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig>

Dean, I'd take a stab at the Docs and manuals part myself.  If for no other
reason than to get a chance to make copies the DVDs for my own use.  If you
sent me your copies, I'd duplicate them for my use, return the originals,
and upload the missing docs. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears that 
> there is still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the 
> DVDs that Glenside sold at the fest a few times...)that  is 
> still not making it up to maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L 
> sites, etc.
> 
> Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to 
> Maltedmedia (be warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot 
> of stuff is  already up there).  The www. os9projects.com 
> site was supposed to take care of that, but things haven't 
> worked out as intended. I'll try and sort out what's in the 
> archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any takers for U/ L duty? 
> I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me to U/L 
> that amount of data.
> 
> Dean
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug  8 05:58:08 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:58:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow Digitization: Competition?
In-Reply-To: <343605502.10911811249725288302.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <568078309.10911891249725488926.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "Fedor Steeman" <petrander at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Regarding Tom Lindner's excellent Rainbow digitization system: I
> thought a
> little competition would not harm. In any case it is a great idea with
> the
> top contributor list!
> 
> I have now crept up into the top 3 and gaining in on 68.151.107.163
> followed
> by Robert. It won't be long until I am number two! :-) :-)
> 
> See if y'all can beat that score, suckers! MUHAHAHA!! Hasta la vista!

Some of us have day jobs, then other responsibilities (cook, clean, assist La Esposa with physical therapy &cet).  The fact that I'm responding to a message over a week old might be a clue.  (And it won't improve this weekend, as we're helping my best friends on the planet pack up their stuff and move a couple of hundred miles away -- annoying enough to go over to Brooklyn to visit, but St Lawrence county is a long commute from Jersey for a visit to my first wife and her husband (they introduced me to my current [probably last since I'm getting too ugly to get dates] wife).  Yes, I was with the first wife (and my cohusband, there may be a wikipedia entry for polyandry, but I don't need to look it up) when the Color Computer was released and a few months later I went to work for Tandy).
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Aug  8 06:22:24 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:22:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908080622.24769.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 07 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>I had to get my old XP laptop out as I do not know where the Temp Internet
>files are in Vista.
>
>The file appears to be from this:
>http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.dcr
>
>It is 13,136KB It gets a little bigger when zipped.
>
>belle2.dcr I found in Temp Internet files.
>
>When I copied it the name was changed to belle2[1].dir
>
>The "[1]" can be removed but why dcr changed to dir?
>
>Vista cannot handle dir, dcr starts Adobe Shockwave.
>
>I tried a couple of years ago to try and download a trial version of some
>Adobe software and got into a loop and could not get out and gave up.
>
I followed a few more google links, and found Adobe Premier to play it, 
windows only, and $800.  Predictably I just lost interest.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
		-- Hunter S. Thompson



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Aug  8 06:24:37 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:24:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908072205k32222ff4r8819a2adc4ff699f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908071745.26041.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<e44ad6640908072205k32222ff4r8819a2adc4ff699f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908080624.37192.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Saturday 08 August 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Friday 07 August 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Stephen H.
>>>
>>>Fischer<SFischer1 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett"
>>>> <gene.heskett at verizon.net> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts"
>>>> <coco at maltedmedia.com> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>>>
>>>>> Not to denegrate what Stephen was trying to do in our discussion, but
>>>>> this is
>>>>> typical of a government operation, particularly when they are told to
>>>>> make the
>>>>> data available to the public.  They will carefully research what is
>>>>> available,
>>>>> and purposely choose a method, that while publicly available, is so
>>>>> obscure
>>>>> that no one has the secret decoder ring.  And of course we didn't get
>>>>> the memo
>>>>> either.  :(
>>>>
>>>> What are the alternatives to Adobe shockwave that have more than 0.001%
>>>> of the market?
>>>>
>>>> There might be one in Google's set of products, or is MS's Silverlight
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at the list of programs installed on my Vista Laptop and could
>>>> only find Adobe Shockwave and MS's Silverlite.
>>>>
>>>> SHF
>>>
>>>Most things that use Shockwave or other proprietary formats can be
>>>done using open, standard tools.  From what I saw of the presentation
>>>(it did not work 100% for me) it did nothing that couldn't have been
>>>implemented in HTML/javascript.  Of course js is not quite an open
>>>standard, but certainly more so than shockwave or silverlight.
>>>
>>>The upcoming HTML 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5) hold much
>>>promise for making these proprietary formats unnecessary.  It will be
>>>interesting to see what direction the online world takes.
>>>
>>>-Aaron
>>
>> Probably wrong Aaron, html-5 will not solve the problem because it will
>> not officially set a codec standard, not even in the mud, let alone stone.
>> Everybody on the committee has an axe to sharpen, and no one would give
>> ground to a competitors product.  Theora has promise, so does mp4, but
>> they simply couldn't agree, so they agreed to disagree, and that language
>> has been removed from html-5 as it stands, as of 2 weeks or so ago.
>
>while the removal of ogg support as a requirement is dissapointing, it
>is still allowable to use the <audio> and <video> tags with ogg
>content, just not mandated.  already firefox and opera have support
>for ogg in this context.  it may turn out that, like other common
>formats that over time have come to be widely supported (png being a
>good example), the official standard will take a back seat to real
>world usage.  time will tell.
>
>for an application such as the presentation discussed in this thread,
>which does not use video (unless there was some that just didn't work
>for me :), html 5 will provide some interesting capabilities outside
>of the codec situation.  specifically, the canvas tag provides
>"dynamic scriptable rendering of bitmap images", which would encompass
>everything I saw happening in this presentation.  of course there is
>also controversy surrounding this new feature (gee thanks Apple)..
>nothing is ever simple :)
>
>-Aaron
>
:)  Your last line says it.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Justice, n.:
	A decision in your favor.



From farna at att.net  Sat Aug  8 07:38:47 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:38:47 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
Message-ID: <4A7D63C7.3040103@att.net>

A few days ago I erroneously reported that an article in "Tandy's Little 
Wonder" covered info on "CoCo Clipboard" magazine. I looked again at the 
article and it covers "TRS-80 Computing/Color Computer", which was 
published 87-91, NOT "CoCo Clipboard"! I apologize for the error. In 
fact, I found that I didn't even have "CoCo Clipboard" listed at all! 
Here's the "Past Magazines" list from "Tandy's Little Wonder":

The Rainbow
July '81-May'93 ................................................ 
Falsoft, Inc.

TRS-80 Microcomputer News (all Tandy computers)
September ?80-July ?84 ................................ Tandy

80 Microcomputing (80 Micro, all TRS-80 computer)
October ?80-May ?83 March ?86-.... CW Communications

68 Micro Journal
November ?80-July ?83, March ?85-1990 ... Don Williams

BYTE Magazine (various articles, not in every issue)
October ?80-?83

The Color Computer News
June ?81-September ?83 .................. REMarkable Software

Chromasette (cassette mag through July ?83, disk after)
July ?81-July ?84 ............................... Chromasette

The Programmer?s Institute TRC (cassette/disk mag)
November ?81-March ?84 (?) ...................... Future House

The Color Computer Magazine
March ?83-October ?84 ........... Ziff-Davis Publishing

HOT CoCo!
June ?83- February ?86 .......... CW Communications

Dragon User (specifically for Tano Dragon)
August ?83-September ?86 ... Business Press International

68 Color Micro Journal
September ?83-February ?85 ...................... Don Williams

Dynamic Color News
February ?84-January ?89 (?) .... Dynamic Electronics

Undercolor
December ?84- June ?85 .................. Green Mountain Micro

DIGInews (cassette magazine)
April ?85-April ?86 (?) .................... Dragonfly Writing

CoCo Time (disk magazine)
October ?85-July ?86 ....................... Microcom Software

Spectrogram
November ?86-June ?87 ............... Spectrogram Magazine

TRS-80 Computing/Color Computing (bi-monthly)
June ?87-October ?91 ............ Color Computing

the world of 68' micros
October '93-March '98 ................... FARNA Systems

CoCo Friends Disk Magazine
February '92-January '00 .............. Rick's Computer Enterprises

The Upgrade
Disk Newsletter from Mid Iowa and Country CoCo Club.
1984 - 2001(?) ................................ Terry Simons, Editor

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From lothan at newsguy.com  Sat Aug  8 15:18:43 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:18:43 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net><E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta><200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
Message-ID: <312C14EE8283447FA13C8AE27409C361@Crossfire>

Look here for Temporary Internet Files on Vista and Windows 7:

%User%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files

It can be hard to find because AppData is a hidden folder and Temporary 
Internet Files is a hidden system folder so it doesn't show up in Explorer 
by default.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Stephen H. Fischer" <SFischer1 at Mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:43 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!

> I had to get my old XP laptop out as I do not know where the Temp Internet 
> files are in Vista.
>
> The file appears to be from this:
> http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.dcr
>
> It is 13,136KB It gets a little bigger when zipped.
>
> belle2.dcr I found in Temp Internet files.
>
> When I copied it the name was changed to belle2[1].dir
>
> The "[1]" can be removed but why dcr changed to dir?
>
> Vista cannot handle dir, dcr starts Adobe Shockwave.
>
> I tried a couple of years ago to try and download a trial version of some 
> Adobe software and got into a loop and could not get out and gave up.
>
> ------------------------- 
>
>>From a search for " adobe .dcr" I found the following:
>
> File extension DCR description:
> Default file extension for Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Director data file.
>
> SHF
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>
>>
>> Those we have, so flash is no problem, and if I wanted to be an outlaw, 
>> there
>> is probably a silverlight codec grabbable from someplace where our 
>> patents are
>> considered to be just so much TP. But if the format is Belle2, what 
>> wrapper
>> do we use to strip it back down to flash?
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From kelly at catcorner.org  Sat Aug  8 15:41:35 2009
From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly D. Leavitt)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:41:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
Message-ID: <6A3EF10803A46549B3E6AF9AED8B99B1AE0C@meow.catcorner.org>

>
> I followed a few more google links, and found Adobe Premier 
> to play it, 
> windows only, and $800.  Predictably I just lost interest.
> 
> -- 
If you use Windows or Mac, all you need is the shockwave player.

http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/otherversions/

We used to use this to develop online training until other tools came along.

Kelly


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Sat Aug  8 16:04:26 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:04:26 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures,
	River to be rerouted! (No Attachment)
In-Reply-To: <200908080622.24769.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net><C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
	<200908080622.24769.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <9F806B3F81094D158956A841F9443EEA@Shasta>

Hi,

That's in line with my attempts to download a trial copy a couple of years
ago.

I did spot one program that "Might" be able to extract the pictures in the
file, but it seemed to be talking about DCR files in a digital camera.

I saw a lot of discussion about "Playing" DCR files, none about extracting
pictures in an existing one.

While it looks like I have failed to one up you with pictures, I have
discovered that I can play the presentation without a web connection if
Adobe Shockwave is installed.

That still lacks the ability for me to tell anyone else without Adobe
Shockwave about the project, or print a copy for my wall.

The PDF file at:
http://www.bellevillewi.org/site_uploads/pdfs/summaryreportfinalweb.pdf

Has a picture of the lake when it has been drained, my house is behind a
tree.

It of course does not have the rock separating the lake from the river as
they plan to do.

I took 5 minutes and added the project to the picture.

If you are still interested I can send the 150 KB jpg.

If this was AVS I would just insert the picture into the post just like many
times I have done before

These non web based forums are rapidly disappearing, I except Earthlink to
drop Usenet like so many other ISPs have done already.

I will try attaching it to this post, I remember that most attachments are
banned, so I do not expect it to appear.

EDIT: Yes it was rejected, this is without the picture attached.

SHF



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
> I followed a few more google links, and found Adobe Premier to play it,
> windows only, and $800.  Predictably I just lost interest.
>
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Sat Aug  8 15:58:37 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:58:37 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <312C14EE8283447FA13C8AE27409C361@Crossfire>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net><200908071210.06624.gene.heskett@verizon.net><E85C0F2BAC194C7F9BD8CBD2E846B73B@Shasta><200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net><C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
	<312C14EE8283447FA13C8AE27409C361@Crossfire>
Message-ID: <D9BF2E8407A74E489E8EDE50517E2BFA@Shasta>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lothan" <lothan at newsguy.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!


> Look here for Temporary Internet Files on Vista and Windows 7:
>
> %User%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files
>
> It can be hard to find because AppData is a hidden folder and Temporary 
> Internet Files is a hidden system folder so it doesn't show up in Explorer 
> by default.

I have UAC turned on, I had to switch to my admin account to see the files.

That was about where I was looking.

Another lesson learned how Microsoft is protecting us from ourselves.

I wish I had time to read the "VISTA INSIDE OUT Book" I purchased.

It was just so easy to swap Laptops, I keep doing that instead.

SHF



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 16:19:45 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:19:45 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures,
	River to be rerouted! (No 	Attachment)
In-Reply-To: <9F806B3F81094D158956A841F9443EEA@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908071740.31420.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<C7CB9A36BD964A25B42980B763A54E1D@Shasta>
	<200908080622.24769.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<9F806B3F81094D158956A841F9443EEA@Shasta>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908081319j49dfb3e4sd90c37f39fd5e467@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/8/09, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>
> Has a picture of the lake when it has been drained, my house is behind a
> tree.
>
> It of course does not have the rock separating the lake from the river as
> they plan to do.
>
> ...
>
> I will try attaching it to this post, I remember that most attachments are
> banned, so I do not expect it to appear.
>
> EDIT: Yes it was rejected, this is without the picture attached.
>
-----

This conversation has gone way off-topic.  Perhaps you should take it off-list.

Darren


From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com  Sat Aug  8 16:11:14 2009
From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:11:14 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
Message-ID: <20090808.151114.5096.1.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>

Hello All
I see a comment on Windows 7.
What is the good or bad word about this new operating syster?
I will be waiting for a few months before I think about a new light
weight 
notegook computer.

I still have a great LOVE for the Coco3.

Regards

John


On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:18:43 -0400 "Lothan" <lothan at newsguy.com> writes:
> Look here for Temporary Internet Files on Vista and Windows 7:
> 
> %User%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files
> 
> It can be hard to find because AppData is a hidden folder and 
> Temporary 
> Internet Files is a hidden system folder so it doesn't show up in 
> Explorer 
> by default.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Stephen H. Fischer" <SFischer1 at Mindspring.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:43 PM
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" 
> <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be 
> rerouted!
> 
> > I had to get my old XP laptop out as I do not know where the Temp 
> Internet 
> > files are in Vista.
> >
> > The file appears to be from this:
> > http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Lake_Belle_View/VRTour/belle2.dcr
> >
> > It is 13,136KB It gets a little bigger when zipped.
> >
> > belle2.dcr I found in Temp Internet files.
> >
> > When I copied it the name was changed to belle2[1].dir
> >
> > The "[1]" can be removed but why dcr changed to dir?
> >
> > Vista cannot handle dir, dcr starts Adobe Shockwave.
> >
> > I tried a couple of years ago to try and download a trial version 
> of some 
> > Adobe software and got into a loop and could not get out and gave 
> up.
> >
> > ------------------------- 
> >
> >>From a search for " adobe .dcr" I found the following:
> >
> > File extension DCR description:
> > Default file extension for Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Director 
> data file.
> >
> > SHF
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
> > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" 
> <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
> >
> >>
> >> Those we have, so flash is no problem, and if I wanted to be an 
> outlaw, 
> >> there
> >> is probably a silverlight codec grabbable from someplace where our 
> 
> >> patents are
> >> considered to be just so much TP. But if the format is Belle2, 
> what 
> >> wrapper
> >> do we use to strip it back down to flash?
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Snoring
Signs, Symptoms & Treatments. Get Free Health Information Online.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=HGTajGi3Q8AO-uUQKAFWkgAAJ1CMGlx2Pi3jwjncgcBXdehhAAUAAAAAAAAAALn8hz4mTOR2mMY5Wfy2v1WkSvtWAAAAAA==


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Sat Aug  8 16:28:18 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <20090808.151114.5096.1.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>
References: <20090808.151114.5096.1.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>
Message-ID: <D460E5263E104CE28526117C5713A831@Shasta>

I suggest that we *do* take any further discussion off list.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John T Chasteen" <johnchasteen.2 at juno.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Cc: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!


> Hello All
> I see a comment on Windows 7.
> What is the good or bad word about this new operating syster?
> I will be waiting for a few months before I think about a new light
> weight 
> notegook computer.
> 
> I still have a great LOVE for the Coco3.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John



From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com  Sat Aug  8 17:48:30 2009
From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
Message-ID: <20090808.164830.552.1.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>

Please keep me in the loop
John
 
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:28:18 -0700 "Stephen H. Fischer"
<SFischer1 at Mindspring.com> writes:
> I suggest that we *do* take any further discussion off list.
> 
> SHF
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John T Chasteen" <johnchasteen.2 at juno.com>
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Cc: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be 
> rerouted!
> 
> 
> > Hello All
> > I see a comment on Windows 7.
> > What is the good or bad word about this new operating syster?
> > I will be waiting for a few months before I think about a new 
> light
> > weight 
> > notegook computer.
> > 
> > I still have a great LOVE for the Coco3.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > John
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Steel Storage Building
Find Steel Storage Building. Top Offers On Steel Storage Building!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=S9wLqcnGAJu6Zdhp8l9vawAAJ1CMGlx2Pi3jwjncgcBXdehhAAUAAAAAAAAAAABvgT50qr4RqqJBizF25-qDwscCAAAAAA==


From twospruces at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:00:25 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:00:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908081600rc31bb71xa26bb1e7541c1ebe@mail.gmail.com>

I've been emailing Cloud9, with no response.  I guess that it is
holiday season - could be away - , but is there any reason to think
there is a problem with still being able to buy things from Mark?

thanks, Steve


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Aug  8 21:00:19 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:00:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
In-Reply-To: <6A3EF10803A46549B3E6AF9AED8B99B1AE0C@meow.catcorner.org>
References: <6A3EF10803A46549B3E6AF9AED8B99B1AE0C@meow.catcorner.org>
Message-ID: <200908082100.19309.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Saturday 08 August 2009, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
>> I followed a few more google links, and found Adobe Premier
>> to play it,
>> windows only, and $800.  Predictably I just lost interest.
>>
>> --
>
>If you use Windows or Mac, all you need is the shockwave player.
>
>http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/otherversions/
>
Other versions I see don't include linux. :(
We have shockwave players, yes, even from adobe, but they don't include that 
.dcr format.

>We used to use this to develop online training until other tools came along.
>
>Kelly
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Think of it!  With VLSI we can pack 100 ENIACs in 1 sq. cm.!



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Aug  8 21:06:03 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:06:03 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures,
 River to be rerouted! (No Attachment)
In-Reply-To: <9F806B3F81094D158956A841F9443EEA@Shasta>
References: <4A7AC7C8.9030400@att.net>
	<200908080622.24769.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<9F806B3F81094D158956A841F9443EEA@Shasta>
Message-ID: <200908082106.03324.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Saturday 08 August 2009, Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>Hi,
>
>That's in line with my attempts to download a trial copy a couple of years
>ago.
>
>I did spot one program that "Might" be able to extract the pictures in the
>file, but it seemed to be talking about DCR files in a digital camera.
>
>I saw a lot of discussion about "Playing" DCR files, none about extracting
>pictures in an existing one.
>
>While it looks like I have failed to one up you with pictures, I have
>discovered that I can play the presentation without a web connection if
>Adobe Shockwave is installed.
>
>That still lacks the ability for me to tell anyone else without Adobe
>Shockwave about the project, or print a copy for my wall.
>
>The PDF file at:
>http://www.bellevillewi.org/site_uploads/pdfs/summaryreportfinalweb.pdf

That looks like a quite decent little town Stephen, all it needs is another 4-
>6 feet of water in the lake to be nearly perfect.  I assume that resembles 
the plan?  A rock faced earthen dam to separate it from the river?

>Has a picture of the lake when it has been drained, my house is behind a
>tree.
>
>It of course does not have the rock separating the lake from the river as
>they plan to do.
>
>I took 5 minutes and added the project to the picture.
>
>If you are still interested I can send the 150 KB jpg.
>
>If this was AVS I would just insert the picture into the post just like many
>times I have done before
>
>These non web based forums are rapidly disappearing, I except Earthlink to
>drop Usenet like so many other ISPs have done already.
>
>I will try attaching it to this post, I remember that most attachments are
>banned, so I do not expect it to appear.
>
>EDIT: Yes it was rejected, this is without the picture attached.
>
>SHF
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] Nani's Home Town Pictures, River to be rerouted!
>
>> I followed a few more google links, and found Adobe Premier to play it,
>> windows only, and $800.  Predictably I just lost interest.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Gene
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Virtue is not left to stand alone.  He who practices it will have neighbors.
		-- Confucius



From snhirsch at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 09:21:11 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:21:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908081600rc31bb71xa26bb1e7541c1ebe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908081600rc31bb71xa26bb1e7541c1ebe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908090919580.9631@duo>

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009, Stephen Adolph wrote:

> I've been emailing Cloud9, with no response.  I guess that it is
> holiday season - could be away - , but is there any reason to think
> there is a problem with still being able to buy things from Mark?

In the course of my correspondance with Mark last spring, he mentioned 
being away at camp for periods of time.


-- 


From maule.timothy at att.net  Sun Aug  9 12:15:34 2009
From: maule.timothy at att.net (timothy male)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
Message-ID: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

posted on the princeton site board
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From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug  9 12:36:40 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:36:40 -0400
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 09 August 2009, timothy male wrote:
>posted on the princeton site board

Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of Dave's family.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Your mode of life will be changed for the better because of new developments.



From alsplace at pobox.com  Sun Aug  9 12:41:57 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:41:57 -0500
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>

On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of  
> Dave's family.

Dave Poitras???  Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was costing me  
too much money by bidding against me in the No Minimum Bid auctions.  
My list of people I'll miss seeing grows by one... Prayers to his  
family.

		-- Allen



From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Sun Aug  9 12:50:56 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:50:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DCC6B56C712742C99E6105E84F0135E7@speedy>

Although I never met Dave face to face, I did do some CoCo business with 
him.  In his passing, a part of me is emptied.



Bruce W.



From maule.timothy at att.net  Sun Aug  9 13:14:18 2009
From: maule.timothy at att.net (timothy male)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
Message-ID: <938021.36578.qm@web83909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:

> >posted on the princeton site board
> 
> Dave will be missed.? My condolences to Timothy and
> the rest of Dave's family.
> 

Just to put things right, I am not a member of the family.? Just a long time lurker who also still monitors "bitnet.listserv.coco" and found & passed on the message.

I agree that he will be missed


From brjeremy at juno.com  Sun Aug  9 14:33:15 2009
From: brjeremy at juno.com (brjeremy at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:33:15 GMT
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
Message-ID: <20090809.133315.4795.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com>

I was truly saddened to learn of Dave's death. He was always very kind to me and I always looked forward to seeing him and Sue at the Fests. We remembered him today at Mass.
Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let light perpetual shine upon him.
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
____________________________________________________________
Whiskey Park
Hold your next Private Event at Whiskey Park
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=xdB7NzQkaHuBVoypE4BX0wAAJ1CMGlx2Pi3jwjncgcBXdehhAAUAAAAAAAAAAAH76D13y65P5oy_vIokrke8KE6MAAAAAA==


From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Sun Aug  9 14:41:30 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:41:30 -0600
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <op.uyerjgu1muougd@optimal-creations-computer.local>

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 10:41:57 -0600, Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com>  
wrote:
I recall those auctions, and Dave, from many CocoFests of the past. He  
will be dearly missed.

> On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of Dave's  
>> family.
>
> Dave Poitras???  Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was costing me  
> too much money by bidding against me in the No Minimum Bid auctions. My  
> list of people I'll miss seeing grows by one... Prayers to his family.
>
> 		-- Allen
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



-- 
L. Curtis Boyle


From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net  Sun Aug  9 14:59:24 2009
From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Coco] [Fwd: [mesquiteham] Here is your chance to goto Mars,
	the Red Planet.]
Message-ID: <4A7F1C8C.6080603@sbcglobal.net>

How about this. I'm already signed up.

John Donaldson

-- 
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From: "Allen Yoder" <ng5y.gm at gmail.com>
Subject: [mesquiteham] Here is your chance to goto Mars, the Red Planet.
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:28:46 -0000
Size: 4257
Url: <http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/attachments/20090809/9bbff13c/attachment.eml>

From dml_68 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  9 16:28:48 2009
From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <998948.35483.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is this navydave from Coco3.com and e-bay?



** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization **


 

--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com> wrote:

From: Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] one of us has fallen
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 9:41 AM

On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Dave will be missed.? My condolences to Timothy and the rest of Dave's family.

Dave Poitras???? Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was costing me too much money by bidding against me in the No Minimum Bid auctions. My list of people I'll miss seeing grows by one... Prayers to his family.

??? ??? -- Allen


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Sun Aug  9 16:33:22 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:33:22 -0600
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <998948.35483.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <998948.35483.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FE4BD948-88E8-49FB-916B-6D8BA7A8724C@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-9-09, at 2:28 PM, Derek wrote:
> Is this navydave from Coco3.com and e-bay?

No.  I think that particular Dave has the surname Grimmel.

-- JP



From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug  9 23:11:40 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:11:40 -0500
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090809220939.050bb460@coco3.com>

At 11:15 AM 8/9/2009, you wrote:
>posted on the princeton site board
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



I assume this was his small personal web page.  I see some pics under 
the Images link but not sure which one he is in the photos.

http://www.cococentral.org/

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug  9 23:29:36 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:29:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090809220939.050bb460@coco3.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090809220939.050bb460@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <200908092329.36408.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 09 August 2009, Roger Taylor wrote:
>At 11:15 AM 8/9/2009, you wrote:
>>posted on the princeton site board
>>
>>
>>--
>>Coco mailing list
>>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>I assume this was his small personal web page.  I see some pics under
>the Images link but not sure which one he is in the photos.
>
>http://www.cococentral.org/

I believe that is Dave in the black shirt holding the baby.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Force has no place where there is need of skill.
		-- Herodotus



From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  9 21:50:38 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (vacuumboy1)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:50:38 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
Message-ID: <h5nude+722g@eGroups.com>

Hi all! I am still having trouble with wikipedia's command syntax descritptions, so can anybody plese help me with POINT? Any help is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:05:45 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:05:45 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <h5nude+722g@eGroups.com>
References: <h5nude+722g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908092205w1e1527bajbea052fc13588bb0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 9:50 PM, vacuumboy1<vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all! I am still having trouble with wikipedia's command syntax descritptions, so can anybody plese help me with POINT? Any help is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!
>

Here's what the original basic manual has to say:

POINT (x,y)

Returns information on point x,y from the low resolution text screen:

-1 = Point is part of an alphanumeric character
 0 = Point is reset
Code = Point is set

Example:
A=POINT(22,33)


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Mon Aug 10 02:53:33 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:53:33 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <h5nude+722g@eGroups.com>
References: <h5nude+722g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7F617D.1532.5EB4F5F@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 10 Aug 2009 at 1:50, vacuumboy1 wrote:

> Hi all! I am still having trouble with wikipedia's command syntax descritptions, so can anybody plese help me with POINT? Any help is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

Point is a function. That is, it returns a value. 

V = point(x,y)

The value of V will depend on the screen mode and on the color of the 
pixel at x,y on the screen. 

0,0 is the upper left corner of the screen in all modes. 

In some modes you only get a true or false (0 or -1?) value because 
there are only two colors possible. In others you get the color value 
for the point.

DEtails beyond that require having the manuals handy or a CoCo to 
test things on, and I don't have either handy.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 04:19:52 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:19:52 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] David Poitras
Message-ID: <BC26B22381094F4D94DEBBC1DF2E6402@TinyBaby>

This is Kris Poitras, David's son. I just wanted to let the group know that my father passed away on 8/2/09. I know some of you were friends of my Dad's. My email is  kristophe13 AT yahoo.com if anyone has any questions.

Thanks,

Kris

Sun, Aug 9 2009 8:16 am 


From mmarlette at frontiernet.net  Mon Aug 10 10:10:50 2009
From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:10:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?
In-Reply-To: <1725927003.1038731249913286269.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <847819082.1039491249913450777.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>

Steve,

We are here.

Summer is a VERY busy time for me and the family. 

I have been away from the computer for a good length of time and the inbox is full with quotes. I will be getting to them all in the next few days

I have several orders that need attention as well.

Regards,

Mark
www.cloud9tech.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 6:00:25 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?

I've been emailing Cloud9, with no response.  I guess that it is
holiday season - could be away - , but is there any reason to think
there is a problem with still being able to buy things from Mark?

thanks, Steve

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From twospruces at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:28:12 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:28:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?
In-Reply-To: <847819082.1039491249913450777.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
References: <1725927003.1038731249913286269.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
	<847819082.1039491249913450777.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908100728t7bb110c8o817400d2ff547056@mail.gmail.com>

Okay! no problem, yes summer is very busy and I hope you are making
the most of the "3rd period".

(for those of us in the colder (hockey) climates, otherwise known as August)

cheers, Steve


On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Mark
Marlette<mmarlette at frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> We are here.
>
> Summer is a VERY busy time for me and the family.
>
> I have been away from the computer for a good length of time and the inbox is full with quotes. I will be getting to them all in the next few days
>
> I have several orders that need attention as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
> www.cloud9tech.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Adolph" <twospruces at gmail.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 6:00:25 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: [Coco] all quiet at Cloud9?
>
> I've been emailing Cloud9, with no response. ?I guess that it is
> holiday season - could be away - , but is there any reason to think
> there is a problem with still being able to buy things from Mark?
>
> thanks, Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Mon Aug 10 11:35:48 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:35:48 -0400
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20090810153548.GD2733@tuxdriver.com>

On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:41:57AM -0500, Allen Huffman wrote:
> On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of Dave's 
>> family.
>
> Dave Poitras???  Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was costing me  
> too much money by bidding against me in the No Minimum Bid auctions. My 
> list of people I'll miss seeing grows by one... Prayers to his family.

I liked Dave very much -- he reminded me of my Dad.  He could
be a little gruff, but in a way I found enjoyable/entertaining!
I always enjoyed spending a little time chatting with him at the
CoCoFEST! each year.

I am definitely sad about this.  I'll miss you, Dave!

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Mon Aug 10 12:19:50 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:19:50 -0500
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <20090810153548.GD2733@tuxdriver.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<200908091236.40600.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<2C0B46B1-12C6-429F-AF0F-2775D5EDF94A@pobox.com>
	<20090810153548.GD2733@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <BF1E50F8-095D-4D69-A070-FFE08C34B902@tee-boy.com>

John,

I'll second that.  I just got back this weekend from a long vacation  
and was playing catch-up with emails when I learned about this.  The  
first time I met Dave was (I believe) at one of the PennFests in 97,  
98 or 99.  The last time I saw Dave was at the 2007 Chicago CoCoFest.   
I missed the 2008 Chicago Fest due to the American Airlines fiasco,  
and I did not see him at the fest this year, so 2008 must have been  
his last fest.

He was one of our most ardent customers at Cloud-9, and never wavered  
in his support of our products. This is really sad news and I'm  
floored that he has passed away so suddenly.  I don't know the  
circumstances surrounding his passing but given his age, and the fact  
that he looked good the last time I saw him, it must have been sudden.

I remember when he and Susan drove down to meet me in Boston in the  
spring of 2003 while I was up there working on a 6 month project. He  
was a straight shooter of a fellow, and I will miss him as well!

Boisy

On Aug 10, 2009, at 10:35 AM, John W. Linville wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:41:57AM -0500, Allen Huffman wrote:
>> On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of  
>>> Dave's
>>> family.
>>
>> Dave Poitras???  Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was costing  
>> me
>> too much money by bidding against me in the No Minimum Bid  
>> auctions. My
>> list of people I'll miss seeing grows by one... Prayers to his  
>> family.
>
> I liked Dave very much -- he reminded me of my Dad.  He could
> be a little gruff, but in a way I found enjoyable/entertaining!
> I always enjoyed spending a little time chatting with him at the
> CoCoFEST! each year.
>
> I am definitely sad about this.  I'll miss you, Dave!
>
> John
> -- 
> John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 06:31:51 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <4A7F617D.1532.5EB4F5F@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <99392.21141.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Ok. Thanks! But how in the world can you program it to draw shapes and stuff?


From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Mon Aug 10 14:09:01 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:09:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] one of us has fallen
In-Reply-To: <BF1E50F8-095D-4D69-A070-FFE08C34B902@tee-boy.com>
References: <1172.61914.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<20090810153548.GD2733@tuxdriver.com>
	<BF1E50F8-095D-4D69-A070-FFE08C34B902@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <200908101409.01440.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

Hi Boisy,

Being terrible with names, I too often got the two of you messed up in my 
mind. I too am saddened to see that Dave has left us. I know him from the 
fests.


From jcewy at swbell.net  Mon Aug 10 14:22:59 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:22:59 -0500
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
 command?
In-Reply-To: <99392.21141.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <99392.21141.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A806583.5090907@swbell.net>

KB wrote:
> Ok. Thanks! But how in the world can you program it to draw shapes and stuff?
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   
Can't.  That's not what it's for. 
To draw shapes and stuff you want to look at other statements, such as:

SET / RESET
PSET / PRESET
HSET / HRESET (CoCo 3)
CIRCLE
HCIRCLE (CoCo 3)
LINE
HLINE (CoCo 3)
DRAW
HDRAW (CoCo 3)


JCE



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 20:15:00 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] good news
Message-ID: <241313.34684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have been making good progress on recovering the source to DCom by manually de-coding the i-code, but it's been a long, tedious affair. Then, today, I get the best news. The original source code documents still exist! I have already retrieved the binder. I don't have a scanner, so it's manual typing to get it all on my laptop. That should keep me busy for a long time. There is alot to type.

Best news yet! The original printout of the header file to Basic09 (that Boisy sent me) is intact and in great condition. Now I can use the data included in it as a means of identifying everything I possibly can. I have found, in the course of my work so far, that there are internal tokens I can identify now, but could not then. There are others I have yet to identify, so the header to Basic09 should help there.

Wayne



      


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Mon Aug 10 21:24:11 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:24:11 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <99392.21141.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <4A7F617D.1532.5EB4F5F@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<99392.21141.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 10 Aug 2009 at 3:31, KB wrote:

> Ok. Thanks! But how in the world can you program it to draw shapes and stuff?

You don't. That's what the Set (or maybe it's PSet on the CoCo?) 
command is for.

If you can find a manual that has the commands for the old IBM PC 
built-in BASIC, or for GWBASIC, a lot of the CoCo commands are 
similar.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 21:29:49 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Syntax of the SET or PSET please?


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 23:14:27 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:14:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908102014r550f2331r887a31a2abecc85b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:29 PM, KB <vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Syntax of the SET or PSET please?
>
>
both take the arguments (X,Y,COLOR)

x,y, and color are integers within the bounds of the current graphics mode,
so valid ranges vary.  you won't hurt anything by experimenting :)


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Mon Aug 10 23:42:35 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:42:35 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A80863B.10320.A675981@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 10 Aug 2009 at 18:29, KB wrote:

> Syntax of the SET or PSET please?

There's a *reason* I suggested you go look for a manual. I don't have 
one handy, and mostly messed with other systems anyway...


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From navydave1 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 23:45:50 2009
From: navydave1 at hotmail.com (David Grimmel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:45:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco]  one of us has fallen
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV2293AB1000E036B1EB41DE8070@phx.gbl>

No, not me. I'm Dave Grimmel (Navydave). I am sad to hear of his passing also. He lived in NH and I lived in Maine but I never got a chance to meet him. He did give me a new in the box Coco3 last year. Just for the cost of shipping. He will be missed. Maybe we should set up a small coco related memorial page and link it to the coco related sites? My Condolences to his family.
Dave G.
Navydave

> Is this navydave from Coco3.com and e-bay? 



>** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** 




>--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com> wrote: 

>From: Allen Huffman <alsplace at pobox.com> 
>Subject: Re: [Coco] one of us has fallen 
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at >maltedmedia.com> 
>Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 9:41 AM 

>On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: 

> Dave will be missed.  My condolences to Timothy and the rest of Dave's family. 


>Dave Poitras???  Oh my. It seems like only yesterday he was >costing me too much money by bidding against me in the No >Minimum Bid auctions. My list of people I'll miss seeing grows by >one... Prayers to his family. 

>        -- Allen 
 


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 23:48:56 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:48:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
 command?
In-Reply-To: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A80EA28.1080001@gmail.com>

Hey dude,

Read The Fantastic Manual. This is how I learned BASIC -- like most 
other people here I guess.

CoCo 3 Extended BASIC Manual (in black and white, 42 MB):

ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MANUALS1/TANDY_HW/COCO/COCO3/CoCo3_XB_BW.pdf

CoCo 3 Extended BASIC Manual (in colour, 88 MB):

ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MANUALS1/TANDY_HW/COCO/COCO3/CoCo3_XB.pdf

CoCo 3 BASIC Quick Reference Guide:

ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MANUALS1/TANDY_HW/COCO/COCO3/CoCo3_BASIC_QRef.pdf

Cheers,

Christian


KB wrote:
> Syntax of the SET or PSET please?
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   



From navydave1 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 23:55:32 2009
From: navydave1 at hotmail.com (David Grimmel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:55:32 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco3.com
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV546BDF20014A1BABC0A7F5E8070@phx.gbl>

Is Coco3.com having issues again? Looks like my name and password has been wiped out. Says its invalid after a number of tries. Any one else with issues logging into the forums?
NavyDave


From navydave1 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 23:58:05 2009
From: navydave1 at hotmail.com (David Grimmel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:58:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco3.com
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV5869F6D5F0E2E2B2B8BD6EE8070@phx.gbl>

I take that back. I just got back in after rentering my name and password plus the little security word in the box below it. Weird how it didnt reconize it at first. Wonder if someone is messing around with it again?


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Tue Aug 11 07:50:12 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:50:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] good news
In-Reply-To: <241313.34684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <241313.34684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A815AF4.9070609@steubentech.com>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I have been making good progress on recovering the source to DCom by manually de-coding the i-code, but it's been a long, tedious affair. Then, today, I get the best news. The original source code documents still exist! I have already retrieved the binder. I don't have a scanner, so it's manual typing to get it all on my laptop. That should keep me busy for a long time. There is alot to type.
>
> Best news yet! The original printout of the header file to Basic09 (that Boisy sent me) is intact and in great condition. Now I can use the data included in it as a means of identifying everything I possibly can. I have found, in the course of my work so far, that there are internal tokens I can identify now, but could not then. There are others I have yet to identify, so the header to Basic09 should help there.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>       
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>   
That is great news!  I am not big into OS9 but I love to hear about 
history being being preserved and it sounds like your tool will be quite 
useful for those of us still using a pretty much dead system.


From jcewy at swbell.net  Tue Aug 11 09:55:15 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Coco] good news
In-Reply-To: <241313.34684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <241313.34684.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A817843.6040506@swbell.net>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> I have been making good progress on recovering the source to DCom by manually de-coding the i-code, but it's been a long, tedious affair. Then, today, I get the best news. The original source code documents still exist! I have already retrieved the binder. I don't have a scanner, so it's manual typing to get it all on my laptop. That should keep me busy for a long time. There is alot to type.
>
> Best news yet! The original printout of the header file to Basic09 (that Boisy sent me) is intact and in great condition. Now I can use the data included in it as a means of identifying everything I possibly can. I have found, in the course of my work so far, that there are internal tokens I can identify now, but could not then. There are others I have yet to identify, so the header to Basic09 should help there.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>       
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   
Good stuff, Wayne!

I look forward to seeing the finished product.

JCE



From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 11:00:36 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:00:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question regarding "F" board 26-3004A
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908110800x45b160c8q8c4dd751f3ecffac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,
I also have a 64k equipped late model COCO1.  26-3004A, with the
version F board.

(oddly it has an extended basic 1.0 rom???)  Anyhow, on to my question.

When I plug my FD-501 into this Coco, it does not work.  I guess I
expected this to work, as opposed to taking the early controller and
using it with coco3, which will not (without +12V supplied by
something like Multipack interface).

Does anyone know why this did not work?   Thanks, any info might save
me some detective work.

cheers, Steve


From coffeecircle at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 22:16:34 2009
From: coffeecircle at yahoo.com (Russell Flowers)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <370583.19053.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 8/10/09, KB <vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com> wrote:







?




    
                  Syntax of the SET or PSET please?My books are gone, sent out when I sold my CoCo... this is from memory.

PSET(X,Y,C) ' X, Y = coords, C = color, usually 1= Foreground, 0 = Background, not sure about different screen modes
PRESET(X, Y) ' not sure if this one has a color parameter
LINE
(X1,Y1)-(X2,Y2),PSET ' Draw a line between the 2 coords; PSET for turning on pixels, PRESET for turning off... there is a box option, filled or unfilled, I can't remember it... something about the letters BF

-- R Flowers

 

      


	 
	
	








	


	
	


      


From lamune at doki-doki.net  Tue Aug 11 12:10:04 2009
From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:10:04 -0700
Subject: [Coco] question regarding "F" board 26-3004A
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908110800x45b160c8q8c4dd751f3ecffac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110800x45b160c8q8c4dd751f3ecffac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B856@concord.lamunet.local>

I have some theories as to why that may be, but "it does not work" is a bit vague. Can you be more specific?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-
> bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:01 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] question regarding "F" board 26-3004A
> 
> Hi folks,
> I also have a 64k equipped late model COCO1.  26-3004A, with the version F
> board.
> 
> (oddly it has an extended basic 1.0 rom???)  Anyhow, on to my question.
> 
> When I plug my FD-501 into this Coco, it does not work.  I guess I expected
> this to work, as opposed to taking the early controller and using it with coco3,
> which will not (without +12V supplied by something like Multipack interface).
> 
> Does anyone know why this did not work?   Thanks, any info might save
> me some detective work.
> 
> cheers, Steve
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:24:16 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:24:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] question regarding "F" board 26-3004A
In-Reply-To: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B856@concord.lamunet.local>
References: <d6b09ed60908110800x45b160c8q8c4dd751f3ecffac@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B856@concord.lamunet.local>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908110924t5374c6e6ud56f66d2c5984a4e@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, I fould the problem and it does work.
Sorry I should have posted my own answer to my problem.

The cable that I plug from drives to controller is not "keyed" and I
had it upside down...doh.

works fine now.

Steve

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Mike Pepe<lamune at doki-doki.net> wrote:
> I have some theories as to why that may be, but "it does not work" is a bit vague. Can you be more specific?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-
>> bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:01 AM
>> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
>> Subject: [Coco] question regarding "F" board 26-3004A
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> I also have a 64k equipped late model COCO1. ?26-3004A, with the version F
>> board.
>>
>> (oddly it has an extended basic 1.0 rom???) ?Anyhow, on to my question.
>>
>> When I plug my FD-501 into this Coco, it does not work. ?I guess I expected
>> this to work, as opposed to taking the early controller and using it with coco3,
>> which will not (without +12V supplied by something like Multipack interface).
>>
>> Does anyone know why this did not work? ? Thanks, any info might save
>> me some detective work.
>>
>> cheers, Steve
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:25:57 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:25:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
that was his name).  I got a lot of documentation from RS.  Service
bulletins, disk drive info, etc.

I'm thinking it should be online somewhere.  Is this info interesting?
 Should it get online?

..Steve


From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:36:33 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:36:33 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <4A80863B.10320.A675981@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<271650.22127.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4A80863B.10320.A675981@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <93f331ac0908110936h7461820ft3be34868bd498ecd@mail.gmail.com>

Or look at the flaming *FILES* section here

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColorComputer/files/Color3QRef.htm

Tandy Color Computer 3 Quick Reference

*PSET (x,y,c)*
Sets point x,y on the current low-resolution graphics screen to Color c. If
c is omitted, BASIC uses the foreground color
*PSET (22,33,2)*


I don't know why I bother if no one even looks :(

Neil

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:42 PM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10 Aug 2009 at 18:29, KB wrote:
>
>> Syntax of the SET or PSET please?
>
> There's a *reason* I suggested you go look for a manual. I don't have
> one handy, and mostly messed with other systems anyway...
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Tue Aug 11 12:52:29 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:52:29 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
> that was his name).  I got a lot of documentation from RS.  Service
> bulletins, disk drive info, etc.
>
> I'm thinking it should be online somewhere.  Is this info interesting?
>  Should it get online?
>
> ..Steve
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>   
I can't speak for everyone here but my answer would be yes!

if it hasn't been archived yet it needs to be archived.


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Tue Aug 11 12:57:35 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:57:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:52:29PM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
> Stephen Adolph wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
>> that was his name).  I got a lot of documentation from RS.  Service
>> bulletins, disk drive info, etc.
>>
>> I'm thinking it should be online somewhere.  Is this info interesting?
>>  Should it get online?
>>
>> ..Steve
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>   
> I can't speak for everyone here but my answer would be yes!
>
> if it hasn't been archived yet it needs to be archived.

Yes, yes!

-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From ed_s_429 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 13:02:39 2009
From: ed_s_429 at yahoo.com (Ed Siler)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Files (was Can anyone plese help me on
	the POINT command?)
In-Reply-To: <93f331ac0908110936h7461820ft3be34868bd498ecd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <523264.31911.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Neil,
We have the same issue in another group I'm heavily?involved in. Problem is that people get the emails & never access the site itself or don't know of the other features available. That's frustrating to those who built a site & made the info available.? But I'm also sure there are some that find what they need & never ask a question, so the effort is not wasted.? I appreciate it, certainly others do too.
.
Folks, at the bottom of every group mail you get there's a row of links to past messages, a database of files, photos, and more.? TONS of info you can find for yourself!? But every once in a while, send a "thank you" to guys like Neil who took the time to put it there.
?
Ed
--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Neil Morrison <neilsmorr at gmail.com> wrote:


From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:32:37 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:32:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>
	<20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908111032m39584688u8298cc7d78169304@mail.gmail.com>

OK,
Next question.  Who will host the files?  I'm not equipped for that.

Steve


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:57 PM, John W.
Linville<linville at tuxdriver.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:52:29PM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
>> Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
>>> that was his name). ?I got a lot of documentation from RS. ?Service
>>> bulletins, disk drive info, etc.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking it should be online somewhere. ?Is this info interesting?
>>> ?Should it get online?
>>>
>>> ..Steve
>>>
>>> --
>>> Coco mailing list
>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>
>> I can't speak for everyone here but my answer would be yes!
>>
>> if it hasn't been archived yet it needs to be archived.
>
> Yes, yes!
>
> --
> John W. Linville ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?might be all we have. ?Be ready.
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Aug 11 15:30:11 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908111032m39584688u8298cc7d78169304@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>	<4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>	<20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>
	<d6b09ed60908111032m39584688u8298cc7d78169304@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81C6C3.30204@sbcglobal.net>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> OK,
> Next question.  Who will host the files?  I'm not equipped for that.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:57 PM, John W.
> Linville<linville at tuxdriver.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:52:29PM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
>>> Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
>>>> that was his name).  I got a lot of documentation from RS.  Service
>>>> bulletins, disk drive info, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking it should be online somewhere.  Is this info interesting?
>>>>  Should it get online?
>>>>
>>>> ..Steve
>>>>
Why don't you upload them to this site? Maltedmedia. There is an archive
here I believe.

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From twospruces at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:39:33 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:39:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <4A81C6C3.30204@sbcglobal.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>
	<20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>
	<d6b09ed60908111032m39584688u8298cc7d78169304@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81C6C3.30204@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908111239l2def2756r6bc372961f6608bd@mail.gmail.com>

yah, that makes sense. I forgot about the maltedmedia FTP.

I suppose I can just dump scans into the incoming folder?

All I can do, is make b/w jpg scans.  Don't know if I have a process
to make pdf from paper.

Steve


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Brian Goers<briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Stephen Adolph wrote:
>> OK,
>> Next question. ?Who will host the files? ?I'm not equipped for that.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:57 PM, John W.
>> Linville<linville at tuxdriver.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:52:29PM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
>>>> Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years ago I bought a pile of stuff from Paul DeMarni (I think
>>>>> that was his name). ?I got a lot of documentation from RS. ?Service
>>>>> bulletins, disk drive info, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking it should be online somewhere. ?Is this info interesting?
>>>>> ?Should it get online?
>>>>>
>>>>> ..Steve
>>>>>
> Why don't you upload them to this site? Maltedmedia. There is an archive
> here I believe.
>
> --
> Brian Goers
> Glenside Computer Club
> Vice President of Special Events
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From tlindner at macmess.org  Tue Aug 11 16:19:37 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908111239l2def2756r6bc372961f6608bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908110925g54a6438fx1bcdac9a70e768ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81A1CD.4090905@steubentech.com>
	<20090811165734.GD2634@tuxdriver.com>
	<d6b09ed60908111032m39584688u8298cc7d78169304@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81C6C3.30204@sbcglobal.net>
	<d6b09ed60908111239l2def2756r6bc372961f6608bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b0704c10908111319g5ce88537pa098072e3207c12e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Stephen Adolph<twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
> yah, that makes sense. I forgot about the maltedmedia FTP.
>
> I suppose I can just dump scans into the incoming folder?
>
> All I can do, is make b/w jpg scans. ?Don't know if I have a process
> to make pdf from paper.

Go ahead and upload the JPGs. Me or someone else can make proper PDFs.
Also don't compress the images too much. A "high-quality" setting
would be best.

-- 
tim lindner


From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:06:08 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <370583.19053.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <949660.59118.qm@web65415.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

THANKS RUSTY!


From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:08:57 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:08:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <93f331ac0908110936h7461820ft3be34868bd498ecd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <425250.51527.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Im so sorry. I did not see that. This helps TREMENDOUSLY. Now I can make that accounting program!


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Aug 11 22:26:17 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:26:17 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Coco3.com
In-Reply-To: <COL0-DAV5869F6D5F0E2E2B2B8BD6EE8070@phx.gbl>
References: <COL0-DAV5869F6D5F0E2E2B2B8BD6EE8070@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090811211800.04fb62f0@coco3.com>

At 10:58 PM 8/10/2009, you wrote:
>I take that back. I just got back in after rentering my name and 
>password plus the little security word in the box below it. Weird 
>how it didnt reconize it at first. Wonder if someone is messing 
>around with it again?


I haven't seen any hacker or bot issues.  The login system of 
PHP-Nuke (core of coco3.com) occasionally does the same to me and 
it's probably due to an error in the math that handles the expired 
cookies or session IDs... who knows, but it's a rare thing for me and 
the worst thing is just a 2nd login page asking for the same info.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From charles.shrader at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 20:48:18 2009
From: charles.shrader at gmail.com (Charles Shrader)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:48:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <4A8065CB.3625.9E81A3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <C6EA2E61ABFE4239B226902F1F4295D9@chuck02>

I actually still have a GWBasic book...
 
Ebay probably has some stuff on it as well.
 
Chuck


From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:03:49 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <4A80863B.10320.A675981@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <164757.18318.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Im sorry. Any?books on amazon? Thanks.?


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 23:38:20 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:38:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>

I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.  Playing
around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
drastically without losing readability.  For example, the original April 85
Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than the
original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to pristine
white.  The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB  to 8MB and still very
readable.
Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
space.
Would anyone else be interested in these?  I could upload to malted, might
save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.  I plan to shrink at least
all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
-Aaron


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Tue Aug 11 23:42:45 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:42:45 -0600
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-11-09, at 9:38 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.   
> Playing
> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes  
> down
> drastically without losing readability.

Are you simply compressing the pages as images, or have you used Adobe  
Acrobat's ClearScan OCR feature?

-- JP



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:08:16 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:08:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:42 PM, J.P. Samson
<coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com<coco%2Blist at jeanpaulsamson.com>
> wrote:

> On Aug-11-09, at 9:38 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>
>> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.  Playing
>> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
>> drastically without losing readability.
>>
>
> Are you simply compressing the pages as images, or have you used Adobe
> Acrobat's ClearScan OCR feature?
>
> -- JP
>

I've been using two different options in Acrobat.  First the "Optimize
Scanned PDF" tool which has several settings and a general slider for
quality vs size, this will get you down a factor of 8-15 and can take out
the yellowed paper effect, and then the "Reduce file size" option to
compatibility with version 9, which takes about 10-20% more off.   I've
played around a bit with the settings on the first tool,  but I'm sure
further tweaking could yield even better results.  It seems a 10x reduction
is size without compromising readability of any text is quite realistic.





>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From tadburnett at vermontel.net  Wed Aug 12 00:31:31 2009
From: tadburnett at vermontel.net (Tad Burnett)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:31:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <C6EA2E61ABFE4239B226902F1F4295D9@chuck02>
References: <C6EA2E61ABFE4239B226902F1F4295D9@chuck02>
Message-ID: <4A8245A3.8030209@vermontel.net>

GWBasic is alive and runs well on my XP machine...
Tad


Charles Shrader wrote:

>I actually still have a GWBasic book...
> 
>Ebay probably has some stuff on it as well.
> 
>Chuck
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Brought to you by the 6809, the 6803 and their cousins!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>



From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Wed Aug 12 01:14:13 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:14:13 -0600
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA7645DF-4B4A-4B61-AD86-E397FB2FB051@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-11-09, at 10:08 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:42 PM, J.P. Samson
>> On Aug-11-09, at 9:38 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.   
>>> Playing
>>> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file  
>>> sizes down
>>> drastically without losing readability.
>>>
>
> I've been using two different options in Acrobat.  First the "Optimize
> Scanned PDF" tool which has several settings and a general slider for
> quality vs size, this will get you down a factor of 8-15 and can  
> take out
> the yellowed paper effect, and then the "Reduce file size" option to
> compatibility with version 9, which takes about 10-20% more off.    
> I've
> played around a bit with the settings on the first tool,  but I'm sure
> further tweaking could yield even better results.  It seems a 10x  
> reduction
> is size without compromising readability of any text is quite  
> realistic.

Assuming you have Acrobat Professional 9, I'd be interested in seeing  
how the ClearScan OCR does for further compressing things.  It seems  
to work surprisingly well for reducing the size of documents, with the  
added bonus of making the text searchable.  For those not in the know,  
ClearScan tries to retain the original look of the text by  
synthesizing new fonts to replace the source image text.  Actual  
graphics and background are extracted and compressed to your requested  
resolution (e.g. 150 dpi), probably using JPEG.

-- JP



From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 02:55:48 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:55:48 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <C6EA2E61ABFE4239B226902F1F4295D9@chuck02>
Message-ID: <h5tp1k+ce7m@eGroups.com>

And thrifts!

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "Charles Shrader" <charles.shrader at ...> wrote:
>
> I actually still have a GWBasic book...
> 
> Ebay probably has some stuff on it as well.
> 
> Chuck
>




From aawolfe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 05:42:22 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:42:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <BA7645DF-4B4A-4B61-AD86-E397FB2FB051@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA7645DF-4B4A-4B61-AD86-E397FB2FB051@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908120242t5af8c08t98894b7a48f21ad5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:14 AM, J.P. Samson
<coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug-11-09, at 10:08 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:42 PM, J.P. Samson
>>>
>>> On Aug-11-09, at 9:38 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia. ?Playing
>>>> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
>>>> drastically without losing readability.
>>>>
>>
>> I've been using two different options in Acrobat. ?First the "Optimize
>> Scanned PDF" tool which has several settings and a general slider for
>> quality vs size, this will get you down a factor of 8-15 and can take out
>> the yellowed paper effect, and then the "Reduce file size" option to
>> compatibility with version 9, which takes about 10-20% more off. ? I've
>> played around a bit with the settings on the first tool, ?but I'm sure
>> further tweaking could yield even better results. ?It seems a 10x reduction
>> is size without compromising readability of any text is quite realistic.
>
> Assuming you have Acrobat Professional 9, I'd be interested in seeing how the ClearScan OCR does for further compressing things. ?It seems to work surprisingly well for reducing the size of documents, with the added bonus of making the text searchable. ?For those not in the know, ClearScan tries to retain the original look of the text by synthesizing new fonts to replace the source image text. ?Actual graphics and background are extracted and compressed to your requested resolution (e.g. 150 dpi), probably using JPEG.

I experimented quite a bit with the OCR possibilities.  Clearscan did
not reduce the size of the file, but it does increase the readability
of the text to nearly that of the original, maybe even better in some
cases.  After refining the process a bit, I now have a 40MB file that
seems to be just as readable as the 550MB original.  The
graphics/pictures/artwork are not as good as the original, but
certainly fine enough for me.

I put the 40MB I've made here:
http://coco.spogbiper.com/rainbow.june.1985_opt1.pdf

The original 550MB is on malted media
ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MAGS0/RAINBOW/1985/
There is also a 100MB version there, but its readability is too low
for comfortable reading, at least with my bad eyes.

If anyone has comments or ideas to make it even smaller/better, I'd
love to hear them before I start shrinking more issues.
-Aaron


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 07:36:11 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:36:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908120242t5af8c08t98894b7a48f21ad5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA7645DF-4B4A-4B61-AD86-E397FB2FB051@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908120242t5af8c08t98894b7a48f21ad5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908120735080.9631@duo>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:

> I experimented quite a bit with the OCR possibilities.  Clearscan did
> not reduce the size of the file, but it does increase the readability
> of the text to nearly that of the original, maybe even better in some
> cases.  After refining the process a bit, I now have a 40MB file that
> seems to be just as readable as the 550MB original.  The
> graphics/pictures/artwork are not as good as the original, but
> certainly fine enough for me.
>
> I put the 40MB I've made here:
> http://coco.spogbiper.com/rainbow.june.1985_opt1.pdf

That looks terrific.  Much easier on the eyes than the original scan.

Nice work!

Steve


-- 


From farna at att.net  Wed Aug 12 11:01:04 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:01:04 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins (making PDFs)
Message-ID: <4A82D930.3030706@att.net>

Stephen, are you using a Windows box? If so, go to www.pdf995.com and download/install their PDF printer driver. Then you can use any program that will print to create a PDF. What you do is go to "print", then select "PDF995" as the printer. Instead of printing a PDF file will be created. The free version will bring up an advertising window and delay about 15-20 seconds before displaying the PDF, but creates the PDF in the background. If it's a 2-3 page file it will finish creating before the ad display closes. The ad isn't too obtrusive, but you can register a copy for $9.95 (hence the name). They have other good PDF manipulation tools also. So scan as a JPG, then print to the driver to create PDFs. The PDFs are good quality, I use this driver all the time to create magazine and book files that are sent to the printer's for printing. 

I'm sure there's a similar PDF printer driver for Linux...

----------
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:39:33 -0400
From: Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com>

yah, that makes sense. I forgot about the maltedmedia FTP.

I suppose I can just dump scans into the incoming folder?

All I can do, is make b/w jpg scans.  Don't know if I have a process
to make pdf from paper.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From farna at att.net  Wed Aug 12 11:15:25 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:15:25 -0400
Subject: [Coco] GW-BASIC vs. Color Computer BASIC
Message-ID: <4A82DC8D.7080405@att.net>

I used a couple GW-BASIC programs as a guide to writing a couple CoCo 
programs. The "Checks3" checkbook program is one (on the list site under 
"farna"), the genealogy program (CoCo Family Recorder, CCFR) was 
another. If you're using a CoCo 1 or 2, FORGET IT! The display itself is 
the biggest problem. only 40 columns. As I recall some of the other 
commands aren't close enough either. With the CoCo3 it's possible to use 
a GW-BASIC program as a framework/guide, but you end up re-writing 80% 
or more of the code. The original GW-BASIC genealogy program used the 
native 80 column text screen display, which was a plus, but the CoCo 
display command formats are a bit different. That was the easy part. 
Everything else had to be re-written to work, and some 4-5 line 
(occasionally more!) subroutines had to be written to replicate simpler 
commands in GW-BASIC. I can't recall any exact examples, it was too long 
ago, but I do recall working for the better part of a year "converting" 
the set of programs for CCFR. Figure over 500 hours. There were 8-10 
individual programs that were called from a menu for specific functions, 
but the programs weren't very long. It was originally written to run in 
128K, I think, I forget whether 512K was required or not now (on the 
CoCo3). I didn't feel bad at all about claiming the program as my own, 
not after writing/re-writing 80-90% of the code, and modifying the 
remaining 10-20%! I did, however, put a note in the program listing that 
it was based on the GW-BASIC program by name and author, so I did give 
some credit.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 06:43:09 2009
From: vacuumboy1 at yahoo.com (KB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: Can anyone please help me on the
	POINT command?
In-Reply-To: <h5tp1k+ce7m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <693539.91897.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Thrift stores are the best places to get stuff that i want! Like my COCO III and a book on Pascal. I will keep a look out for one though!

--- On Wed, 8/12/09, Neil Morrison <neilsmorr at gmail.com> wrote:


From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:28:35 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:28:35 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: Can anyone please help me on the
	POINT command?
In-Reply-To: <693539.91897.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <h5tp1k+ce7m@eGroups.com>
	<693539.91897.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93f331ac0908120928k1be5fd0el2c10b38b9fc1f019@mail.gmail.com>

I got a sack of ROM paks for a few bucks once. I've seen and passed on Coco
books.

Neil


From wlhaynes1248 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:50:30 2009
From: wlhaynes1248 at gmail.com (Wesley Haynes)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:50:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] service bulletins (making PDFs)
In-Reply-To: <4A82D930.3030706@att.net>
References: <4A82D930.3030706@att.net>
Message-ID: <7a6c38670908121050t5f0bf9b6v5fcf8327ed4ba874@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Frank Swygert <farna at att.net> wrote:

> Stephen, are you using a Windows box? If so, go to www.pdf995.com and
> download/install their PDF printer driver. Then you can use any program that
> will print to create a PDF. What you do is go to "print", then select
> "PDF995" as the printer. Instead of printing a PDF file will be created. The
> free version will bring up an advertising window and delay about 15-20
> seconds before displaying the PDF, but creates the PDF in the background. If
> it's a 2-3 page file it will finish creating before the ad display closes.
> The ad isn't too obtrusive, but you can register a copy for $9.95 (hence the
> name). They have other good PDF manipulation tools also. So scan as a JPG,
> then print to the driver to create PDFs. The PDFs are good quality, I use
> this driver all the time to create magazine and book files that are sent to
> the printer's for printing.
> I'm sure there's a similar PDF printer driver for Linux...
>
>
I've had good luck with PDFCreator. No ads.

http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator

Wes


From lamune at doki-doki.net  Wed Aug 12 13:58:09 2009
From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:58:09 -0700
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
Message-ID: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>

Listers,

I find myself with more need for money than a desire to someday open the CoCo museum. I'm sorting through my stuff and reducing redundancies.

I'm inclined to ebay off most of the stuff in the hope that someone actually might believe L@@K! RARE! and drop a ton of money in my paypal account - but in reality that doesn't seem to happen. :)

So I'm pondering maybe doing a private auction or somesuch thing with you all here instead. I'm not sure how everyone feels about it, but I'd do it offline, maybe a silent auction type thing.

I think one of the first things I'd let go would be a nice 64k white CoCo1 with matching white MPI.

-Mike


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Aug 12 15:22:59 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:22:59 -0600
Subject: [Coco] GW-BASIC vs. Color Computer BASIC
In-Reply-To: <4A82DC8D.7080405@att.net>
References: <4A82DC8D.7080405@att.net>
Message-ID: <20090812192259.GA15768@virgo.sdc.org>

Heck, even porting between the BASIC of different Tandy computers is a
pain.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 12 17:47:11 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:47:11 -0400
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
In-Reply-To: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>
Message-ID: <7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>

You will probably get two to three times the cash for the MPI than the
Coco1.   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Mike Pepe
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:58 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts (coco at maltedmedia.com)
> Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
> 
> Listers,
> 
> I find myself with more need for money than a desire to 
> someday open the CoCo museum. I'm sorting through my stuff 
> and reducing redundancies.
> 
> I'm inclined to ebay off most of the stuff in the hope that 
> someone actually might believe L@@K! RARE! and drop a ton of 
> money in my paypal account - but in reality that doesn't seem 
> to happen. :)
> 
> So I'm pondering maybe doing a private auction or somesuch 
> thing with you all here instead. I'm not sure how everyone 
> feels about it, but I'd do it offline, maybe a silent auction 
> type thing.
> 
> I think one of the first things I'd let go would be a nice 
> 64k white CoCo1 with matching white MPI.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 18:38:40 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:38:40 -0600
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
In-Reply-To: <7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>
	<7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908121538s340925d6s455a8331f3681c3f@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/12/09, Paul Fitch wrote:
> You will probably get two to three times the cash for the MPI than the
> Coco1.
>

Maybe not.  This white 64K CoCo 1 sold for $41.00 a few weeks ago:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=250462268114>

A white MPI (item #260457783331) just sold for $37.00.

Darren


From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Wed Aug 12 18:46:46 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:46:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>
	<7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <25F4DD5C3EA9428BA169B0A08BD5390C@speedy>

Years ago I would have put a sizeable sum on a white CoCo One just to fill 
out my collection.  Times have changed and my thirst for collecting has 
changed.  I barely have enough time for the honey-do list, let alone 
collecting for the sake of collecting.



Bruce W.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Fitch"


> You will probably get two to three times the cash for the MPI than the
> Coco1.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> Listers,
>>
>> I find myself with more need for money than a desire to
>> someday open the CoCo museum. I'm sorting through my stuff
>> and reducing redundancies.
>>
>> I'm inclined to ebay off most of the stuff in the hope that
>> someone actually might believe L@@K! RARE! and drop a ton of
>> money in my paypal account - but in reality that doesn't seem
>> to happen. :)
>>
>> So I'm pondering maybe doing a private auction or somesuch
>> thing with you all here instead. I'm not sure how everyone
>> feels about it, but I'd do it offline, maybe a silent auction
>> type thing.
>>
>> I think one of the first things I'd let go would be a nice
>> 64k white CoCo1 with matching white MPI.
>>
>> -Mike



From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Wed Aug 12 21:13:15 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:13:15 +1000
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908121538s340925d6s455a8331f3681c3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>	<7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>
	<5d802cd0908121538s340925d6s455a8331f3681c3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8368AB.4020106@iinet.net.au>

Darren A wrote:

> Maybe not.  This white 64K CoCo 1 sold for $41.00 a few weeks ago:
> A white MPI (item #260457783331) just sold for $37.00.

I really don't understand how the whole retro collectors scenes work in 
terms of dollar worth for goods. It seems to me that variances are so wildly 
random that it's impossible to predict what you're going to pay or be paid 
for anything these days! :O

There are numerous instances - as no doubt many of you are aware - of 
otherwise pedestrian items going for ridiculous amounts of money on the odd 
occasion. Likewise, I've been frustrated on more than one occasion to see 
completed auctions for items I've been looking for going for pittance.

Explain to me how a garden-variety NES with a couple of controllers and a 
garden-varity NES zapper can have 21 bids and go for _more_ than a 
mint-in-box, never-used Ice Blue N64 (AUD$80+)??? I picked up a NES - boxed 
no less - for AUD$7 a few years back, and even then I didn't feel like I was 
getting a bargain in any way... hell, I have about 5 of the things sitting 
in my cupboard at home!

A while back, somewhat notoriously a copy of a particular Amiga game went 
for something like $150 on eBay. My friend got all excited, knowing he had a 
mint-in-box copy of it. Of course in the ensuing days, more copies popped up 
on eBay and most ended with no bids at $5.

It's crazy, and I've given up trying to work it out. All you can really do 
is go by what it's worth to _you_.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:29:43 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:29:43 -0400
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
In-Reply-To: <4A8368AB.4020106@iinet.net.au>
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>
	<7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>
	<5d802cd0908121538s340925d6s455a8331f3681c3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A8368AB.4020106@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908121829s1173ddbcn71f127672fb487f1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Mark McDougall<msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Darren A wrote:
>
>> Maybe not. ?This white 64K CoCo 1 sold for $41.00 a few weeks ago:
>> A white MPI (item #260457783331) just sold for $37.00.
>
> I really don't understand how the whole retro collectors scenes work in
> terms of dollar worth for goods. It seems to me that variances are so wildly
> random that it's impossible to predict what you're going to pay or be paid
> for anything these days! :O
>
> There are numerous instances - as no doubt many of you are aware - of
> otherwise pedestrian items going for ridiculous amounts of money on the odd
> occasion. Likewise, I've been frustrated on more than one occasion to see
> completed auctions for items I've been looking for going for pittance.
>
> Explain to me how a garden-variety NES with a couple of controllers and a
> garden-varity NES zapper can have 21 bids and go for _more_ than a
> mint-in-box, never-used Ice Blue N64 (AUD$80+)??? I picked up a NES - boxed
> no less - for AUD$7 a few years back, and even then I didn't feel like I was
> getting a bargain in any way... hell, I have about 5 of the things sitting
> in my cupboard at home!
>
> A while back, somewhat notoriously a copy of a particular Amiga game went
> for something like $150 on eBay. My friend got all excited, knowing he had a
> mint-in-box copy of it. Of course in the ensuing days, more copies popped up
> on eBay and most ended with no bids at $5.
>
> It's crazy, and I've given up trying to work it out. All you can really do
> is go by what it's worth to _you_.
>

Agreed, ebay pricing can be very strange.  I can't believe I missed
that MPI for $37, been looking for one forever.

When I was studying for some Cisco certifications, I purchased a
number of routers and switches from ebay for lab work.  I found that
with careful buying and selling, I was able to rotate through all the
equipment I needed and never actually spend any money.  In the end,
after a few months and 30 some transactions, I actually kept a very
nice set of equipment that I use for my home network and still made a
little profit.

Makes you wonder if one could make a living out of it.  I'm sure my
postman thought I was crazy with all the boxes coming and going.

-Aaron


From charles.shrader at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 20:32:50 2009
From: charles.shrader at gmail.com (Chuck)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:32:50 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Can anyone plese help me on the POINT
	command?
In-Reply-To: <370583.19053.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h5vmvi+nb3f@eGroups.com>

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, Russell Flowers <coffeecircle at ...> wrote:
>
> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, KB <vacuumboy1 at ...> wrote:
>                   Syntax of the SET or PSET please?My books are gone, sent out when I sold my CoCo... this is from memory.
> 
> PSET(X,Y,C) ' X, Y = coords, C = color, usually 1= Foreground, 0 = Background, not sure about different screen modes
> PRESET(X, Y) ' not sure if this one has a color parameter
> LINE
> (X1,Y1)-(X2,Y2),PSET ' Draw a line between the 2 coords; PSET for turning on pixels, PRESET for turning off... there is a box option, filled or unfilled, I can't remember it... something about the letters BF
> 
> -- R Flowers
>

Here's what I see about the LINE command from my book "Going Ahead with Extended Color Basic":

LINE (x1,y1)-(x2,y2),a,b

(x1,y1) specifies the line's start point.  x1 is any numeric expression from 0 to 255, y1 from 0 to 191.

(x2, y2) specifies the line's end point.  x1 is any numeric expression from 0 to 255, y1 from 0 to 191.

a is eitehr PSET or PRESET

b is either B or BF.  This is optional.

Note: If start point is not specified, the Computer will start at teh most recent end point in the program.  If there isn't a previous end point in the program, (128,96) will be used as the start point.

I don't see a reference to a color parameter in the PRESET command.  Let me know if you need me to look up anything else; I'm more than happy to help out.

Chuck S.





From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Thu Aug 13 00:26:38 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:26:38 +1000
Subject: [Coco] possibly selling white coco & mpi
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908121829s1173ddbcn71f127672fb487f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EEA43F43D1E7444B990B271C34A079E90DC485B861@concord.lamunet.local>	<7BEE10A768BE4C10B490BB98F250313B@Dell3Gig>	<5d802cd0908121538s340925d6s455a8331f3681c3f@mail.gmail.com>	<4A8368AB.4020106@iinet.net.au>
	<e44ad6640908121829s1173ddbcn71f127672fb487f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8395FE.4020609@iinet.net.au>

Aaron Wolfe wrote:

> Makes you wonder if one could make a living out of it.

I have absolutely no doubt that there's plenty of people making money just 
buying and re-selling on eBay - both within and outside the "retro scene".

I'm sure if you researched your chosen market and were patient enough to 
wait for your low bids to win, and then subsequently re-list as "Buy It 
Now", you'd be able to eke out a profit of sorts. But it would be a 
time-consuming and rather tedious way to earn a living.

Then again, so would coding web sites or java programming! :)

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Thu Aug 13 18:34:40 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:34:40 -0600
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908120242t5af8c08t98894b7a48f21ad5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D29D72-160B-40F6-B27E-5455E41B2A07@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908112108j5871d12ckae2f8b992c864577@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA7645DF-4B4A-4B61-AD86-E397FB2FB051@jeanpaulsamson.com>
	<e44ad6640908120242t5af8c08t98894b7a48f21ad5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF4AA1AA-C4D2-4A48-BF5F-418DAA198424@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-12-09, at 3:42 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> I experimented quite a bit with the OCR possibilities.  Clearscan did
> not reduce the size of the file, but it does increase the readability
> of the text to nearly that of the original, maybe even better in some
> cases.  After refining the process a bit, I now have a 40MB file that
> seems to be just as readable as the 550MB original.  The
> graphics/pictures/artwork are not as good as the original, but
> certainly fine enough for me.
>
> I put the 40MB I've made here:
> http://coco.spogbiper.com/rainbow.june.1985_opt1.pdf

If there is little penalty in file size using ClearScan, I'd say use  
it.  I agree that it makes the text very readable.  It isn't doing a  
perfect job with the OCR, but you'll not notice this unless you try to  
copy-and-paste text into a text editor.  In particular, it struggles  
badly with code listings.  But visually, it works great!

-- JP



From ben_jimenez at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 13 18:33:25 2009
From: ben_jimenez at yahoo.com (Ben Jimenez)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'd like to read them, keep em coming.

Ben

--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM

I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April 85
Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than the
original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to pristine
white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still very
readable.
Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
space.
Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted, might
save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at least
all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
-Aaron

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From operator at coco3.com  Thu Aug 13 19:32:11 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:32:11 -0500
Subject: [Coco] help needed with surge in CoCo activity
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090813181854.054f7ef0@coco3.com>

I'm having trouble keeping up with a surge in CoCo requests and forum 
membership requests (from real CoCo users) because I am trying to 
wrap up orders I'm behind on.  To answer everybody by e-mail and 
deliver any kind of decent service I'm forced to ask if there is a 
dedicated CoCo user among us (trusted) who won't mind responding to 
some forwarded e-mails that I'd *like* to answer, but can't at this 
time.  Most messages are ordinary stuff we typically see in the 
forums asking about CoCo support.

I also need to bring somebody in on a voluntary basis to be co-admin 
of coco3.com with priveledges of adding new forum members through a 
simple admin panel.  Some of the users writing me are clearly CoCo 
users but haven't provided all the info needed... they usually just 
mention their CoCo interests but haven't given their city/state or 
temporary password to use, or a nickname, etc.  Getting involved in a 
conversation with everybody at this time is becoming impossible if I 
am to finish overdue orders for wireless paks and DVDs.

The short version to all of this is: I'm getting bogged down and need 
some help.  If you have time to answer some e-mails and add new CoCo 
members (after verifying the right info), write me for more info.

Thanks
Roger Taylor
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From twospruces at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:11:21 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>

http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html

check this out.  I don't even understand what this could be?


From mdelyea at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:27:31 2009
From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:27:31 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>

I'm guessing the Rainbow record is a recording of tape programs as
that would also be in audio format.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Stephen Adolph<twospruces at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html
>
> check this out. ?I don't even understand what this could be?
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From johnguin at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:39:31 2009
From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:39:31 -0700
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY115-DAV4D712015EF4AA4FE62D5DD9020@phx.gbl>

The July issue was the Anniversary issue for the Rainbow.  They had some
really great goodies included each year and one year they included a 33 1/3
record which had those three programs on it.

If you hooked a turntable up to the Coco, you could use the audio out from
the turntable as the cassette (audio) input on the coco and load the program
as if the record were a cassette.

They also had a scratch and sniff adventure one year...

John

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:11 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?

http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html

check this out.  I don't even understand what this could be?

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:35:08 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:35:08 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84BF4C.1060706@gmail.com>

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html
>
> check this out.  I don't even understand what this could be?
I don't know either. That record doesn't even seem to be round! My guess 
is that those records were made for testing purposes by someone who had 
the equipment to do so. The other records are kind of weird too. I mean, 
who would want to listen to "Speech Coding" from the Institute of 
Electrical and Electronic Engineers? "Hey honey, wanna listen to 
'Transmission Error Effects' tonight? Let's have a Martini."

Cheers,

Christian




From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:38:56 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:38:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84C030.3080007@gmail.com>

mike delyea wrote:
> I'm guessing the Rainbow record is a recording of tape programs as
> that would also be in audio format.
>   
Well, yes indeed. But the question is: "Who made it? And why?"

Christian



From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Thu Aug 13 21:51:39 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:51:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>

I have few ideas as to the first two but the third is a disk from an early 
anniversary issue for the Rainbow magazine.  To get the programs into my 
computer I had to play the record on my turntable (anyone remember them?) 
and record it to cassette.  Once I had CLOADed it into the computer, I 
CSAVEd it for a clean copy.  I still have a copy of that record somewhere.



Bruce W.

============================================



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike delyea"


I'm guessing the Rainbow record is a recording of tape programs as
that would also be in audio format.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Stephen Adolph

> check this out. I don't even understand what this could be?



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:09:19 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:09:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-DAV4D712015EF4AA4FE62D5DD9020@phx.gbl>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY115-DAV4D712015EF4AA4FE62D5DD9020@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A84C74F.7060609@gmail.com>

John Guin wrote:
> The July issue was the Anniversary issue for the Rainbow.  They had some
> really great goodies included each year and one year they included a 33 1/3
> record which had those three programs on it.
>   
Well, then I believe it's a cool CoCo artifact. Now I understand why it 
doesn't seem to be round: it is within a protective sleeve whose hole is 
not round.




From os9dude at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:16:22 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:16:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A84C030.3080007@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A84C030.3080007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580908131916u7b0fe038p6d835cba8e045c42@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>wrote:

mike delyea wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing the Rainbow record is a recording of tape programs as
>> that would also be in audio format.
>>
>>
> Well, yes indeed. But the question is: "Who made it? And why?"
>

As for who manufactured the particular record (The Rainbow July 1983), the
record sheet says:

Made in USA - EVATONE Soundsheets of Clearwater Florida.

The soundsheets were not that rare back in the day - heck, they even came
inside cereal boxes! - it was a convenient and cheap way of distributing
recordings like demos. Responses to the Rainbow record suggested many people
would have liked the magazine to continue distributing its programs like
that instead of tape. While novel, it was impractical for the size of the
magazine then, and also there was the issue of having the readers transcribe
the record into a suitable tape.


-=[ R ]=-


From curtisboyle at sasktel.net  Thu Aug 13 22:24:33 2009
From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:24:33 -0600
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
Message-ID: <7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>

Or, if you had an earphone Jack on your record player, you could plug  
the black cable from the cassette cable into it, and CLOAD it from  
there, like I did.

Sent from my iPhone
L. Curtis Boyle


On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:51 PM, "Bruce W. Calkins" <brucewcalkins at charter.net 
 > wrote:

> I have few ideas as to the first two but the third is a disk from an  
> early anniversary issue for the Rainbow magazine.  To get the  
> programs into my computer I had to play the record on my turntable  
> (anyone remember them?) and record it to cassette.  Once I had  
> CLOADed it into the computer, I CSAVEd it for a clean copy.  I still  
> have a copy of that record somewhere.
>
>
>
> Bruce W.
>
> ============================================
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike delyea"
>
>
> I'm guessing the Rainbow record is a recording of tape programs as
> that would also be in audio format.
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Stephen Adolph
>
>> check this out. I don't even understand what this could be?
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:27:40 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:27:40 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <5631e580908131916u7b0fe038p6d835cba8e045c42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<4A84C030.3080007@gmail.com>
	<5631e580908131916u7b0fe038p6d835cba8e045c42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84CB9C.3060403@gmail.com>

Well, now that you mention it.... I do remember those soundsheets. So I 
was wrong: the record is not within a sleeve; it has been cut with 
scissors to give it its strange shape.

Rogelio Perea wrote:
> As for who manufactured the particular record (The Rainbow July 1983), the
> record sheet says:
>
> Made in USA - EVATONE Soundsheets of Clearwater Florida.
>
> The soundsheets were not that rare back in the day - heck, they even came
> inside cereal boxes! - 



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:32:59 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:32:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>

L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
> Or, if you had an earphone Jack on your record player, you could plug 
> the black cable from the cassette cable into it, and CLOAD it from 
> there, like I did.

Hey, you know what it means? The CoCo probably was the computer with the 
less expensive "disk drive" back in 1983! :)



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 05:18:30 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:18:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908140218h2e789de6m2b5353ff9008d410@mail.gmail.com>

I've uploaded the first 12 issues to maltedmedia.  Compared to the
high res scans they are about 10% of the size, but just as readable if
not better.  The ClearScan does a nice job, especially if you want to
be able to zoom in and out without losing clarity on the fonts.  It
turns the letters into sort of quasi vector things instead of bitmaps.
  I've also tried to reduce the bleed through in the background and
other tweaks where they seemed to help.
I am working my way through year 2 now.
-Aaron


On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Jimenez<ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to read them, keep em coming.
>
> Ben
>
> --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM
>
> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
> drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April 85
> Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than the
> original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to pristine
> white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still very
> readable.
> Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
> historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
> space.
> Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted, might
> save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at least
> all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
> -Aaron
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Fri Aug 14 10:28:30 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:28:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>

Christian Lesage wrote:
> L. Curtis Boyle wrote:
>> Or, if you had an earphone Jack on your record player, you could plug 
>> the black cable from the cassette cable into it, and CLOAD it from 
>> there, like I did.
>
> Hey, you know what it means? The CoCo probably was the computer with 
> the less expensive "disk drive" back in 1983! :)
>
Not only that but if I recall correctly it loads from tape (and floppy) 
a lot faster than some other machines contemporary to it like the C64. 
which had amazingly slow disk and tape. (there are hacks to speed up the 
1541 but still its pretty slow)




From linville at tuxdriver.com  Fri Aug 14 10:34:45 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:34:45 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090814143445.GK2650@tuxdriver.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 09:11:21PM -0400, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html
> 
> check this out.  I don't even understand what this could be?

Good luck dealing with that guy -- he suggested that I mail cash to him...

-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 14:18:45 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:18:45 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
Message-ID: <h649q5+gd0e@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I recently acquired, at a car boot sale, a TRS 80 Color Computer Electronic Book with 3 software packages:

       Village of Spellwell

       Earthquake

       Well of Knowledge

Unfortunately, time has taken its toll on the tapes- the will not load.

I would love to get the Electronic Book working.

Does anyone know if there are any .cas or .wav files for the above titles and are there any instructions/ programming instructions available for the actual Electronic Book?

Finally, were there any other titles for the 'Book'?

Hoping someone can help!

Regards

Barry






From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 16:39:17 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:39:17 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h649q5+gd0e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h64i1l+1hbv@eGroups.com>

Are you in the UK? These may be UK only titles. There were 4 US titles but I don't recognize yours.

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:

> I recently acquired, at a car boot sale, a TRS 80 Color Computer Electronic Book with 3 software packages:
>        Village of Spellwell
>        Earthquake
>        Well of Knowledge
> Unfortunately, time has taken its toll on the tapes - they will not load.




From blackwolfe at charter.net  Fri Aug 14 16:58:16 2009
From: blackwolfe at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:58:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC
	BOOK
References: <h64i1l+1hbv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B6F52D322D6A4B948A0B11BEA211961B@speedy>

I'll have to echo Neil.  I have the Electronic Book and 4 programs.  It has 
been a while since I tested them, I hope they are still good.

Bruce W.
===============================================


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Morrison"



> Are you in the UK? These may be UK only titles. There were 4 US titles but 
> I don't recognize yours.
>
> Neil
>
> --- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:
>
>> I recently acquired, at a car boot sale, a TRS 80 Color Computer 
>> Electronic Book with 3 software packages:
>>        Village of Spellwell
>>        Earthquake
>>        Well of Knowledge
>> Unfortunately, time has taken its toll on the tapes - they will not load.
>
> 


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 17:17:42 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:17:42 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>

William Schaub wrote:
>>
> Not only that but if I recall correctly it loads from tape (and 
> floppy) a lot faster than some other machines contemporary to it like 
> the C64. which had amazingly slow disk and tape. (there are hacks to 
> speed up the 1541 but still its pretty slow)
The C64 had nonetheless much better graphics and sound capabilities than 
the first two CoCos (and even the CoCo 3, to some extent). And with the 
FastLoad cartridge, the 1541 was quite usable. I'd say the main problem 
with the C64 was its ROM: the Kernel and the BASIC interpreter could 
have been made much better. Perhaps Commodore decided that it would 
become a gaming platform, and as such, it didn't need to have an 
advanced BASIC interpreter. The CoCo, on the other hand, had poor 
graphics and sound support, so it needed a feature that would appeal to 
some people: Microsoft Extended BASIC and Disk BASIC. It's a shame 
Microware left so many bugs behind when they patched Extended BASIC for 
the CoCo 3. They had enough room to hide a 6KB picture in the ROM... 
IMHO, that space could have been better used! The buggy ROM could have 
been part of a scheme to lure customers into buying a disk drive, OS9... 
and then a 512KB add-on memory board. I didn't buy the latter back in 
the day; I had already spent $200 on the CoCo, $100 on a monochrome 
monitor, $400 on a disk drive and $100 on OS9 (Canadian dollars)... Yet, 
I would have needed that damn 512KB board to be able to do any kind of 
serious work with that system. I was pissed off, to say the least. 
Retrospectively, I think I should have bought an Amiga! Now folks, 
please don't flame me... I still have a CoCo and I think it's a fun 
machine to mess around with. (I also own a very cool C64 and an ultra 
cool Amiga... [grin].)

Christian









From RJRTTY at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 19:07:18 2009
From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:07:18 EDT
Subject: [Coco]  Video converter pricing changes
Message-ID: <be7.57c418ee.37b74826@aol.com>

People,

The time has  come for me to announce a price
change for my coco SVGA video  converter.
The unit is out of the prototype stage and performs
as well as  I can make it.   When I started this project
I didn't know how to  use the PC board design software
let alone know how to sync to a signal with  a Phase-locked
loop or double the scan rate of the coco3.  So I kept  the
price artificially low as I experimented with the system
and learned  as I went along.
Now I must increase the price to $120  which includes
the power supply and interface cable.   This price  also
includes shipping in the continental USA.    Overseas
shipping will be extra.   For all those who have  pending
orders with me I will honor the previous price of $48 plus
$10  shipping for a total of $58 so no worries there.

There  is an alternative for those who would like one.
You can order a commercial  unit at:

http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

It will cost you  $92 plus shipping BUT you will have to
obtain an interface cable on your  own.   I can make a 
cable for you as I have this unit and have  interfaced it to
my coco3.    It has performance similar to my  converter
except it has 16 bit resolution which shows ALL the noise
the  coco3 generates.   There also is no way to adjust the
gain so the  interface cable must be loaded with 75 ohm
resistors in order to adjust the  incoming signal to the proper
level.   I can make this cable  available for $10 plus $5 shipping
for a total of $15.

I hope to  accomplish two things with this price change.   Reduce
demand and  recover cost of production.   The experience of 
manufacturing and  marketing this product has been rewarding
but now I must bring the price in  line with costs as I settle into
a period of steady production and  output.   I have recently moved
from my cramped apartment to a  duplex where I have spread out
my operation and have become more proficient  at assembling the
converter.  So I should get to everyone who has been  waiting for
a unit fairly soon.

Thanks to everyone who has purchased  the unit for their support

Roy 



From flexser at fiu.edu  Fri Aug 14 19:54:16 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:54:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com> <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>

It's been quite a while since I looked at the Super Extended Basic ROM code,
but my recollection is that the bugs were neither all that numerous nor
particularly serious.  It is definitely coded more sloppily than the
Microsoft CoCo ROMs, true, but that mostly takes the form of wasted bytes
rather than bugs.

Microware made the decision to have Super Extended Basic run in RAM, above
Disk Basic.  Given that decision, the 6K space used for the picture could
not be used for Basic code;  it is accessed from the internal rom by
switching memory modes, and is not normally in the memory map at all.  (The
same is true of the 40/80 column screen memory, though in that case the
switch is accomplished switching in normally mapped-out RAM segments
temporarily.)
Microware did leave a K or two of RAM space unused above Super Extended
Basic that could have been used for additional features;  I assume Tandy
specified what features they wanted and Microware found they could easily
cram them into the available space with room left over both in the RAM map
and (to a much bigger extent) in the internal ROM.  In the latter case, they
shoved a picture in there for lack of incentive to do anything fancier.

None of this has any bearing on people buying OS-9,  which makes no use
whatsoever of the Microware code.

Art
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>wrote:

> William Schaub wrote:
>
>>
>>> Not only that but if I recall correctly it loads from tape (and floppy) a
>> lot faster than some other machines contemporary to it like the C64. which
>> had amazingly slow disk and tape. (there are hacks to speed up the 1541 but
>> still its pretty slow)
>>
> The C64 had nonetheless much better graphics and sound capabilities than
> the first two CoCos (and even the CoCo 3, to some extent). And with the
> FastLoad cartridge, the 1541 was quite usable. I'd say the main problem with
> the C64 was its ROM: the Kernel and the BASIC interpreter could have been
> made much better. Perhaps Commodore decided that it would become a gaming
> platform, and as such, it didn't need to have an advanced BASIC interpreter.
> The CoCo, on the other hand, had poor graphics and sound support, so it
> needed a feature that would appeal to some people: Microsoft Extended BASIC
> and Disk BASIC. It's a shame Microware left so many bugs behind when they
> patched Extended BASIC for the CoCo 3. They had enough room to hide a 6KB
> picture in the ROM... IMHO, that space could have been better used! The
> buggy ROM could have been part of a scheme to lure customers into buying a
> disk drive, OS9... and then a 512KB add-on memory board. I didn't buy the
> latter back in the day; I had already spent $200 on the CoCo, $100 on a
> monochrome monitor, $400 on a disk drive and $100 on OS9 (Canadian
> dollars)... Yet, I would have needed that damn 512KB board to be able to do
> any kind of serious work with that system. I was pissed off, to say the
> least. Retrospectively, I think I should have bought an Amiga! Now folks,
> please don't flame me... I still have a CoCo and I think it's a fun machine
> to mess around with. (I also own a very cool C64 and an ultra cool Amiga...
> [grin].)
>
> Christian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From twospruces at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 20:32:30 2009
From: twospruces at gmail.com (Stephen Adolph)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:32:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com> <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b09ed60908141732y3f10941wadce2cf4dd4409d8@mail.gmail.com>

reagarding this rainbow disk.

If anyone here wants it, I am local. I will go and get the disk, and
mail it to you.
Gets around the CDN/US issue.

lemme know.

Steve


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 21:18:28 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:18:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>

Arthur Flexser wrote:
> my recollection is that the bugs were neither all that numerous nor
> particularly serious.  It is definitely coded more sloppily than the
> Microsoft CoCo ROMs, true, but that mostly takes the form of wasted bytes
> rather than bugs.
>   
Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and 
annoying bug. I dont't remember precisely what were the other ones, but 
I do remember I used to run a patching program upon start-up to correct 
the most annoying ones. All in all, it seems to me that the SECB 
patching project had not been taken very seriously be either Tandy or 
Microware... or both.

> Microware made the decision to have Super Extended Basic run in RAM, above
> Disk Basic.  Given that decision, the 6K space used for the picture could
> not be used for Basic code;  it is accessed from the internal rom by
> switching memory modes, and is not normally in the memory map at all.  

Well, you're right, the CoCo was not able to directly use that 6KB 
memory space, but it could have been used to hold more (and better) 
patching code! And why did they choose to kill the DLOAD command? It 
would be a highly useful command to have in the CoCo 3 nowadays -- 
perhaps the most useful one. For instance, if it were still there, one 
could DLOAD DriveWire from a PC or Mac into the CoCo 3 instead of being 
forced to LOAD it from disk or having to put it in a ROM-Pak or a disk 
controller. Any CoCo 3 would be DriveWire-ready out-of-the-box if the 
DLOAD command were still there.

> None of this has any bearing on people buying OS-9,  which makes no use
> whatsoever of the Microware code.
>   
Well, well... Why didn't they (Tandy and/or Microware) made SECB capable 
of using the whole 128KB (or 512KB) of RAM? I'm not talking about being 
able to LPOKE/LPEEK all the address space, but being able to load larger 
programs and hold larger strings. To use the CoCo 3 memory to its full 
potential, you HAD to buy another product... like OS9, for example, or a 
third-party product. I'm not saying Microware was responsible for the 
lesser quality SECB. It could as well be Tandy. My point is that I (like 
some other people I guess) was quite disapointed with SECB and came the 
conclusion that BASIC-09 was the way to go. So I gave Radio Shack 
another $500 in exchange of a floppy disk drive and OS9... just to find 
out that I would also need to buy a 512KB memory board if I wanted to do 
serious work, hence my deception.





From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Fri Aug 14 21:46:27 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:46:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006401ca1d4a$3459b480$9d0d1d80$@com>

And I STILL can't buy a computer big enough to handle Windows decently...
:)

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Christian Lesage
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:18 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?

Arthur Flexser wrote:
> my recollection is that the bugs were neither all that numerous nor
> particularly serious.  It is definitely coded more sloppily than the
> Microsoft CoCo ROMs, true, but that mostly takes the form of wasted bytes
> rather than bugs.
>   
Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and 
annoying bug. I dont't remember precisely what were the other ones, but 
I do remember I used to run a patching program upon start-up to correct 
the most annoying ones. All in all, it seems to me that the SECB 
patching project had not been taken very seriously be either Tandy or 
Microware... or both.

> Microware made the decision to have Super Extended Basic run in RAM, above
> Disk Basic.  Given that decision, the 6K space used for the picture could
> not be used for Basic code;  it is accessed from the internal rom by
> switching memory modes, and is not normally in the memory map at all.  

Well, you're right, the CoCo was not able to directly use that 6KB 
memory space, but it could have been used to hold more (and better) 
patching code! And why did they choose to kill the DLOAD command? It 
would be a highly useful command to have in the CoCo 3 nowadays -- 
perhaps the most useful one. For instance, if it were still there, one 
could DLOAD DriveWire from a PC or Mac into the CoCo 3 instead of being 
forced to LOAD it from disk or having to put it in a ROM-Pak or a disk 
controller. Any CoCo 3 would be DriveWire-ready out-of-the-box if the 
DLOAD command were still there.

> None of this has any bearing on people buying OS-9,  which makes no use
> whatsoever of the Microware code.
>   
Well, well... Why didn't they (Tandy and/or Microware) made SECB capable 
of using the whole 128KB (or 512KB) of RAM? I'm not talking about being 
able to LPOKE/LPEEK all the address space, but being able to load larger 
programs and hold larger strings. To use the CoCo 3 memory to its full 
potential, you HAD to buy another product... like OS9, for example, or a 
third-party product. I'm not saying Microware was responsible for the 
lesser quality SECB. It could as well be Tandy. My point is that I (like 
some other people I guess) was quite disapointed with SECB and came the 
conclusion that BASIC-09 was the way to go. So I gave Radio Shack 
another $500 in exchange of a floppy disk drive and OS9... just to find 
out that I would also need to buy a 512KB memory board if I wanted to do 
serious work, hence my deception.




--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.55/2301 - Release Date: 08/14/09
18:10:00



From shadow at shadowgard.com  Fri Aug 14 21:52:16 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:52:16 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h649q5+gd0e@eGroups.com>
References: <h649q5+gd0e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B260.26162.DAE5E81@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 14 Aug 2009 at 18:18, bv_sh wrote:

> I would love to get the Electronic Book working.
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any .cas or .wav files for the above titles and are there any instructions/ programming instructions available for the actual Electronic Book?

as I recall, the book plugs into the joystick port, and the areas on 
the "page" correspond to sets of x/y co-ordinates. 

Just write a program that reads the joysticks and note what values 
the pressing the "buttons" give. 
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From badfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 21:54:55 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:54:55 -0500
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <006401ca1d4a$3459b480$9d0d1d80$@com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com> <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com> <006401ca1d4a$3459b480$9d0d1d80$@com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0908141854hd6f16f5n5d59af63891fce28@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Tom Seagrove<tjseagrove at writeme.com> wrote:
> And I STILL can't buy a computer big enough to handle Windows decently...
> :)
>

Heh, once I saw someone playing DOOM, in '94, I absolutely HAD to get
a PC.  Thank id Software for killing the CoCo as my main computer.

Been running Windows 7 since May.  It's not _completely_ horrible.  :)
 At least it beats Vista.  Haven't tried the CoCo emulator on it yet
though.


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 22:11:23 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:11:23 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <006401ca1d4a$3459b480$9d0d1d80$@com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
	<006401ca1d4a$3459b480$9d0d1d80$@com>
Message-ID: <4A86194B.8020406@gmail.com>

Tom Seagrove wrote:
> And I STILL can't buy a computer big enough to handle Windows decently...
> :)
>   
Hehe. But MS doesn't sell PCs or RAM, so they can't be accused of 
pushing you into buying new hardware. Or maybe there is a huge 
conspiracy involving MS and major PC makers... who knows? To be fair, 
*some* MS products do have a long life expectancy. Windows XP, for 
instance, will be supported until 2014; it will be 13-years old by then. 
Not bad at all! A lot better than Windows ME in any case.




From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 22:07:51 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:07:51 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <4A85B260.26162.DAE5E81@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <h6559n+pd5s@eGroups.com>

That's how it works. BTW, it's a good idea to play the tapes through the speaker and listen to them. If you wiggle them while playing you can see if they can be improved. You want to get the most 'treble' sound you can. Often, tapes were recorded out of azimuth - most RS players have a little adjusting screw for the head to tweak the sound. We also used to stack coins on one or another corner to get a good read off them.

If you can load the program just once you can CSAVE it to another tape to get a workable copy.

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, shadow at ... wrote:

> as I recall, the book plugs into the joystick port, and the areas on 
> the "page" correspond to sets of x/y co-ordinates. 
> 
> Just write a program that reads the joysticks and note what values 
> the pressing the "buttons" give. 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com
>




From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Fri Aug 14 23:04:24 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:04:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <1284515397.13470851250305422403.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <755517862.13470971250305464966.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

> From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:02:10 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...

> I could go on, but the examples I've mentioned are symptomatic of 
> poor management decisions for the last 25 years.  Had you jumped 
> on the m68k bandwagon and given us another, better amiga, the world 
> might just not be so ruled by wintel cpu's with largely broken 
> architectures that are now demanded because of the legacy software 
> out there that wouldn't have a clue what to do if it suddenly didn't 
> have to work around the broken intel design from the gitgo.  Heck, I 
> would have thought you would have learned from the z80 debacle.  My 
> mistake.  There are lots of far better cpu architectures out there 
> than intel and its clones.  How about the arm cpu that can run at 
> 200mhz using 1/4 watt of power?  Or the 500 mhz version that runs on 
> 2 watts?  Both run linux natively.  But because that's (wintel crap) 
> what I can get, that's what I'm running here, an AMD quad core phenom 
> 9550 at 2.1Ghz, burns 65 watts  sleeping, and 4Gb of ram is almost 
> enough to make it do what I want to do, which, come to think of it, 
> is everything.

Gene, Tandy did a lot with the 68k _before_ there was a bandwagon.  The Mod 16 running Xenix on a 68k was around well before the Lisa, never mind the Mac.  For a while, the Mod 16/Tandy 6000 was the largest single vendor base of Unix computers in the wild, except that instead of being in research labs and megacorps they were in offices and mom&pop shops actually getting some work done.  True, they weren't as fast as a Cray or as pretty as an AT&T 7300.  And the CPU cycles were dedicated to getting real work done rather than playing games with a mouse (a singularly lousy gaming tool, especially with only one button) or drawing cute greyscale (until much later) pictures.

Yes, my high-level bosses (1981-1986) made a lot of stupid decisions, two of which caused me to bail (only PC compatibles henceforth aside from contract obligations, and an order to shave).  The Z-80 was not a bad decision for the first machines.  But Zilog failed on producing 16-bit CPUs until years after they were needed.  In fact, I still use LS-DOS for day to day work (AllWrite by ProSoft is my preferred text editor/output formatter -- note NOT a "Word Processor") on a Mod 4 because it is flat out the best single-user operating system ever compiled.  (OS-9 & descendants are multi-user).  I would dearly love to see a Drivewire equivalent for the Mod 1/3/4 series (LDOS/LS-DOS, I don't care about TRS-DOS, NewDOS, UltraDOS or a few other alternatives that came around).  I've got a great emulator (xtrs from Tim Mann), but the drives in my 4p are getting flaky but I like the machine.  I can't hope for an emulator of anything in the 2/12/16/6000 series.  Nobody else is interested and I am not a coder at that level, my main language is the Bourne shell and its descendants.

Sorry for the late response, but the only folks I was going to miss when I left the NYC area (my first wife and her husband -- they introduced me to La Esposa back in '92) are leaving first and we've been helping them pack (bibliophiles helping bibliophiles pack is harder than any of the labors of Herakles) for their move from Brooklyn upstate to St Lawrence County about a million miles from here or from where I plan to settle in New Hampshire.
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net


----- "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 23:20:55 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:20:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <755517862.13470971250305464966.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <755517862.13470971250305464966.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200908142320.55322.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 14 August 2009, wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
>> From: "Gene Heskett" <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:02:10 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
>>
>> I could go on, but the examples I've mentioned are symptomatic of
>> poor management decisions for the last 25 years.  Had you jumped
>> on the m68k bandwagon and given us another, better amiga, the world
>> might just not be so ruled by wintel cpu's with largely broken
>> architectures that are now demanded because of the legacy software
>> out there that wouldn't have a clue what to do if it suddenly didn't
>> have to work around the broken intel design from the gitgo.  Heck, I
>> would have thought you would have learned from the z80 debacle.  My
>> mistake.  There are lots of far better cpu architectures out there
>> than intel and its clones.  How about the arm cpu that can run at
>> 200mhz using 1/4 watt of power?  Or the 500 mhz version that runs on
>> 2 watts?  Both run linux natively.  But because that's (wintel crap)
>> what I can get, that's what I'm running here, an AMD quad core phenom
>> 9550 at 2.1Ghz, burns 65 watts  sleeping, and 4Gb of ram is almost
>> enough to make it do what I want to do, which, come to think of it,
>> is everything.
>
>Gene, Tandy did a lot with the 68k _before_ there was a bandwagon.  The Mod
> 16 running Xenix on a 68k was around well before the Lisa, never mind the
> Mac. 

I never knew what was in the 16..  Figured it was probably an 80186.

> For a while, the Mod 16/Tandy 6000 was the largest single vendor base
> of Unix computers in the wild, except that instead of being in research
> labs and megacorps they were in offices and mom&pop shops actually getting
> some work done.  True, they weren't as fast as a Cray or as pretty as an
> AT&T 7300.

The AT&T 7300 wasn't purty to me, it was a fire waiting to get started better, 
and sometimes did.  We had one for about 10 years at the tv station, handling 
the CBS network messages to their affiliates.  It destroyed 5 motherboards and 
3 10 megabyte HD's from the heat in that little bitty box.

> And the CPU cycles were dedicated to getting real work done
> rather than playing games with a mouse (a singularly lousy gaming tool,
> especially with only one button) or drawing cute greyscale (until much
> later) pictures.

Yup. No arguments there.

>Yes, my high-level bosses (1981-1986) made a lot of stupid decisions, two of
> which caused me to bail (only PC compatibles henceforth aside from contract
> obligations, and an order to shave). 

That latter was the straw I'll bet.

> The Z-80 was not a bad decision for
> the first machines.

Half the production of that chip that I have come in contact were brain dead.  
The hex $E5 instruction is supposed to swap the foreground/background register 
set, but it was intermittently flaky, so you never knew if the address you 
wanted was in the front register or not.  And they refused to replace it with 
a fully functioning chip when I found it.  Such screw the customer attitudes 
doom zilog to the footnote in history status just as much as their failed 
attempt to make a 16 bitter.  The 8 bitter, lacking a combined test and long 
branch facility, was always a drane bamaged architecture to me.  RCA's 1802 
got it right, why the heck couldn't zilog?

> But Zilog failed on producing 16-bit CPUs until years
> after they were needed.  In fact, I still use LS-DOS for day to day work
> (AllWrite by ProSoft is my preferred text editor/output formatter -- note
> NOT a "Word Processor") on a Mod 4 because it is flat out the best
> single-user operating system ever compiled.  (OS-9 & descendants are
> multi-user).  I would dearly love to see a Drivewire equivalent for the Mod
> 1/3/4 series (LDOS/LS-DOS, I don't care about TRS-DOS, NewDOS, UltraDOS or
> a few other alternatives that came around).  I've got a great emulator
> (xtrs from Tim Mann), but the drives in my 4p are getting flaky but I like
> the machine.  I can't hope for an emulator of anything in the 2/12/16/6000
> series.  Nobody else is intereste d and I am not a coder at that level, my
> main language is the Bourne shell and its descendants.

Today, sadly I'll plead guilty to that too, its plumb sexy to do it with a 
shell script.  The coco os9 should have had such a shell, sniff...

>Sorry for the late response, but the only folks I was going to miss when I
> left the NYC area (my first wife and her husband -- they introduced me to
> La Esposa back in '92) are leaving first and we've been helping them pack
> (bibliophiles helping bibliophiles pack is harder than any of the labors of
> Herakles) for their move from Brooklyn upstate to St Lawrence County about
> a million miles from here or from where I plan to settle in New Hampshire.

Rotsa ruck. :)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

"I'd love to go out with you, but it's my parakeet's bowling night."



From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug 15 01:27:16 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:27:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <1876269453.13483821250313687150.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1081605593.13484241250314036410.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "William Schaub" <wschaub at steubentech.com> wrote:

> Not only that but if I recall correctly it loads from tape (and
> floppy) 
> a lot faster than some other machines contemporary to it like the C64.
> which had amazingly slow disk and tape. (there are hacks to speed up
> the 
> 1541 but still its pretty slow)


I will state flat out that the Color Computer cassette interface was at least twice as fast as any stock Commodore disk system prior to the Amiga.  No need to discuss Commodore, Atari or Apple tape subsystems -- even the TRS-80 Model One, badmouthed that its tape system was, was more reliable than those -- most users of the other machines bought overpriced floppy drives so quickly they forgot the reason why, while TRS-80 users could wait for a sale.  Mod One tape systems were around longer, (because they _usually_ worked rather than _sometimes_ worked like those other machines) so there was more time to badmouth them.  The Atari cassette system was especially nasty as I recall.
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net



From flexser at fiu.edu  Sat Aug 15 01:45:39 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:45:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <1081605593.13484241250314036410.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1876269453.13483821250313687150.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<1081605593.13484241250314036410.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610908142245udbcf1a9wa04b85e268806dd0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:27 AM, <wdg3rd at comcast.net> wrote:

> I will state flat out that the Color Computer cassette interface was at
> least twice as fast as any stock Commodore disk system prior to the Amiga.
> --
> Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net
>
I'm pretty sure that's an exaggeration.  If I remember correctly, the CoCo
cassette I/O was at 1800 bps, whereas the stock Commodore 1541 disk drive
was around 3000 bps.  (I remember this because in the CoCo's early days, I
marketed a cassette utility to allow double-speed cassette operation, and
would brag that WITH THIS UTILITY, the CoCo could do I/O faster than the
C-64 disk system.)

Of course, unlike the CoCo cassette, the Commodore disk system had direct
access to all the programs on the disk via a directory, and so as a
practical matter was in general much faster to use.  And you could fit a LOT
of small programs on it, since the minimum program size was something like a
sector instead of a whole granule (9 sectors) as under CoCo Disk Basic.

Art





>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug 15 01:51:16 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:51:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A86194B.8020406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <703488623.13485201250315476134.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

> From: "Christian Lesage" <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:11:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
>
> Tom Seagrove wrote:
> > And I STILL can't buy a computer big enough to handle Windows
> decently...
> > :)

Seymore Cray couldn't build a computer big enough to handle Windows decently.  In fact, I'm not sure that "handle Windows" and "decently" belong in the same sentence unless it's in prison.
  
> Hehe. But MS doesn't sell PCs or RAM, so they can't be accused of 
> pushing you into buying new hardware. Or maybe there is a huge 
> conspiracy involving MS and major PC makers... who knows? To be fair,
> 
> *some* MS products do have a long life expectancy. Windows XP, for 
> instance, will be supported until 2014; it will be 13-years old by
> then. 
> Not bad at all! A lot better than Windows ME in any case.

Windows (for Workgroups) 3.11 was better than Windows ME.  No contest.

"The package said it required Windows XP or _better_ to run.  So I installed Linux".
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 01:51:53 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:51:53 -0400
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <755517862.13470971250305464966.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <755517862.13470971250305464966.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4A864CF9.7040804@gmail.com>

wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
> In fact, I still use LS-DOS for day to day work (AllWrite by ProSoft is my preferred text editor/output formatter -- note NOT a "Word Processor") on a Mod 4 because it is flat out the best single-user operating system ever compiled. 

Ward,

Did you ever receive my message explaining how to create a Model II 
bootable floppy out of Tim Mann's LS-DOS disk image? I sent it in April 
this year.

Yes indeed, a Model II emulator would be nice.

Christian




From ben_jimenez at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 15 02:51:04 2009
From: ben_jimenez at yahoo.com (Ben Jimenez)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <190186.87811.qm@web52301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

on page 177 there are some military games listed, anyone know where I can find these games to play now?
?
COMPANY COMMANDER 32K
Game module 1 - House to House. Ark Royal's squad level WWI I
i n fantry combat game.
They said it couldn 't be done - a SQUAD LEVEL wargame on a com?
puter - but we've done it. The Line of Sight problem is licked - and the
mac h i ne language routi nes really speed things up.
Game Module #1 comes with House to House map and 1 0 + scenerios
involving infantry combat in Aachen, Caen, Arnheim, Sta l i ngrad and
other famous WWI I c i ty battlegrounds. Combat u n i ts i n c l ude rifle
squads, mortar teams, mac h i ne gun crews, engineers, and more
(depending on the scenerio chosen), leaders, vehicles and other
weaponry of WWI I . Unique design al lows i ncorporation of future
expansion modules.
Choose campaign play and put yourself on the battlefield, Corporal
Smith or Jones; collect pOints toward promotion. Order up smoke from
the mortar squad, HE for those dug in u n i ts. Take the objective and you
might make Major someday. Just don't step on a land mine
?
BATTLE OF THE BULGE 32K
Ark Royal's 1 or 2 player game by the author of Battle For Tunis, Bulge recreates
operation Wacht Am Rhein, H i t ler's last desperate gamble of WWI I . In none of our
games is the fog of war so apparent than i n BULGE. You know the Germans have
attacked in the Ardennes, but little else. What is their strength? Thei r objective?
Who do you send to repair the huge gap in the American l i nes? What bridges do
you blow? Can you protect the fuel depots? Where are all those Tigers coming
from? When will the weather clear?
H istorically accurate, and a real chal lenge whether it be against the computer or
a friend. (Just don
?


--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Ben Jimenez <ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Ben Jimenez <ben_jimenez at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 3:33 PM


Hi,

I'd like to read them, keep em coming.

Ben

--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM

I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April 85
Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than the
original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to pristine
white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still very
readable.
Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
space.
Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted, might
save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at least
all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
-Aaron

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From farna at att.net  Sat Aug 15 14:10:55 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] SECB (was RAINBOW vinyl records?)
Message-ID: <4A86FA2F.1060007@att.net>

The CoCo was a low profit side-line for Tandy by the time the CoCo3 came along. Tandy didn't want it to compete in any way with any of their more profitable PC line, they just wanted it to as a stepping stone to a PC and/or to have something to sell to those who just couldn't afford a more capable machine. They upgraded it just enough to keep CoCo fans somewhat happy, but no more. Otherwise we wouldn't be saddled with a GIME that freaks out when pushed much faster. I think that cripples future hardware upgrades more than anything else. The analog RGB doesn't help either, but I think it was easier to implement and more compatible with older programs, as most RGBA monitors also had composite inputs. Who knew at the time that it would soon be phased out? 

I think they were aware that OS-9 was a more serious OS, and people who used it were the ones really clamoring for more memory. More memory access from SECB could be perceived as competing with Tandy's PC line, but OS-9 was a totally different animal that only techies of the period really used. Most of us simply put a game disc in and booted, didn't matter if it was OS-9 or BASIC/ML code. Programming in Basic-09 wasn't all that complicated -- unless you were used to the old line number BASIC. Running OS-9 could be, and required more expensive hardware, which put the total system cost more in line with a low end PC, which I'm sure RS sales people would happily point out. 

As far the circles, I'd bet that had something to do with translating the math to the screen. Pixel counts don't always match the math, so circles appear a bit more oblong on many systems, not just the CoCo. Compromises had to be made.

What always puzzled me was why didn't Tandy contact Art Flexser instead of Microware for a better DECB. Art had already been selling ADOS for some time. If ADOS-3 had come with the CoCo3 it would have been a much better machine! I do agree that I wish there had been a better use for all the memory. I think I coded my genealogy program (CC3 only) to check for 512K and load a RAM disk if it found it to speed operations up. I don't recall now... but I know I made several patches to SECB when the program loaded to speed disk I/O and a few other things. 

There was also a little trick loader that made the BASIC program look like an ML program on the disk. It was easy to work around, but most didn't bother because the programs were so fast they assumed they were ML code. Any accomplished SECB programmer caught on and could go around it, but if you knew enough to do that I wasn't worried with you messing the programs up and complaining later!

-------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:18:28 -0400
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?

Arthur Flexser wrote:

> > my recollection is that the bugs were neither all that numerous nor
> > particularly serious.  It is definitely coded more sloppily than the
> > Microsoft CoCo ROMs, true, but that mostly takes the form of wasted bytes
> > rather than bugs.
> >   
>   
Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and 
annoying bug. I dont't remember precisely what were the other ones, but 
I do remember I used to run a patching program upon start-up to correct 
the most annoying ones. All in all, it seems to me that the SECB 
patching project had not been taken very seriously be either Tandy or 
Microware... or both.

Well, well... Why didn't they (Tandy and/or Microware) made SECB capable 
of using the whole 128KB (or 512KB) of RAM? I'm not talking about being 
able to LPOKE/LPEEK all the address space, but being able to load larger 
programs and hold larger strings. To use the CoCo 3 memory to its full 
potential, you HAD to buy another product... like OS9, for example, or a 
third-party product. I'm not saying Microware was responsible for the 
lesser quality SECB. It could as well be Tandy. My point is that I (like 
some other people I guess) was quite disappointed with SECB and came the 
conclusion that BASIC-09 was the way to go. So I gave Radio Shack 
another $500 in exchange of a floppy disk drive and OS9... just to find 
out that I would also need to buy a 512KB memory board if I wanted to do 
serious work, hence my deception.


-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 14:23:35 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:23:35 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h64i1l+1hbv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h66uf7+ttfe@eGroups.com>

Hi,

Yes, I am in the UK.

Do you recall the US titles? They may give a clue to the US
counterparts.

Regards

Barry


From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 14:26:19 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:26:19 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <B6F52D322D6A4B948A0B11BEA211961B@speedy>
Message-ID: <h66ukb+ohkv@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I know it is a bit of an imposition, but if the tapes are good, is there
a chance of producing .cas or.wav files?

It would be well appreciated.

Barry


From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 14:36:43 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:36:43 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <4A85B260.26162.DAE5E81@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <h66v7r+312f@eGroups.com>

Hi,

Many thanks for advice- knowing this, I am sure I can 'play about' with
the Electronic book.

Regards

Barry


From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 14:29:42 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:29:42 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h6559n+pd5s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h66uqm+f17g@eGroups.com>

Many thanks for the advice regards joystick values.

I have tried most things to get the tapes to be recognised successfully,
but to no avail.

I have concluded they are past redemption.

Barry


From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 15:39:38 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:39:38 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h66uqm+f17g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h672tq+fj14@eGroups.com>

Well please don't trash them. Someone may be able to do something with them.

Any chance you could post scans of the labels?

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:

> I have tried most things to get the tapes to be recognised successfully,
> but to no avail.
> 
> I have concluded they are past redemption.




From blackwolfe at charter.net  Sat Aug 15 17:11:48 2009
From: blackwolfe at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:11:48 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC
	BOOK
References: <h672tq+fj14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <89C72257D6E24B13BA45B407A29CC085@speedy>

You may be able to copy them on a good tape deck and use the copy.

Bruce W.

==========================================


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Morrison"


> Well please don't trash them. Someone may be able to do something with 
> them.
>
> Any chance you could post scans of the labels?
>
> Neil
>
> --- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:
>
>> I have tried most things to get the tapes to be recognised successfully,
>> but to no avail.
>>
>> I have concluded they are past redemption.
>
> 


From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:47:57 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:47:57 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h66uf7+ttfe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h67aed+kj0r@eGroups.com>

This may be the list:
Maze Master
Number Factory
Word Wizard
Shape Maker

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:

> Do you recall the US titles? They may give a clue to the US
> counterparts.




From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 15 19:01:11 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:01:11 -0600
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
Message-ID: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>

OK, I've looked for these on the net and didn't find them.

I'd like to find the docs for:
	Color Profile (Radio Shack)
	eFORTH (FHL)
	Color Max Deluxe

I have legal copies of the software, but no docs. :-(

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From swancity at internode.on.net  Sat Aug 15 18:28:11 2009
From: swancity at internode.on.net (Gerry van den Berk)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:28:11 +0800
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC
	BOOK
References: <h66uqm+f17g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <09cf01ca1df7$ac3e1d80$6401a8c0@nonee919662542>

bv_sh wrote:
> Many thanks for the advice regards joystick values.
>
> I have tried most things to get the tapes to be recognised
> successfully,
> but to no avail.
>
> I have concluded they are past redemption.
>

It may be more an issue over the equipment and tecnique used. I have loaded 
tapes that where beyond redemption on ordinary tapedecks by using a high 
quality Yamaha tape deck connected as the tape drive for the CoCo and saving 
the program back to a PC. Other tapes where copied over to the PC and saved 
as WAV's where they could be manipulated and in most instances salvaged.

Please consider passing the tapes onto someone else who wishes to try a 
salvage mission if no other working copies can be found.
 



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 15 19:23:24 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:23:24 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
Message-ID: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>

OK, last year we had a big thing over the source for a Curses library
that was on RTSI.  

Turns out it was OSK source, rather than OS-9/6X09.

So, last night I finally sat down and hacked at it some, replacing the
OSK SCF status scructs with the OS-9 versions, and actually got it to
compile!

(OSK's SCF status tables seem to be VERY deeply nested.  Ouch!)

There were also a couple of macro calls that c_prep19 didn't like.  I
split them off into seperate lines, which made both the compiler and
my aesthetic sense happier.

The only other change I had to make was that the the compiler didn't
like comparing the return value of tgetent() to a (char *)1  so, after
reading some about termcap, changed it to check for > 0  

You gotta love K&R C -- tgetent() returns -1 on file error, 0 for
"can't find entry", and, to quote the man page, "some other value" on
sucess. ;-)

And of course, getting the code to compile doesn't actually mean it'll
work.  I'll have to hack up some test code.

Of course, it requires the Kreider Clib (for the OSK-style _ss_* and
_gs_* functions), termcap (the LII termcap library does work, doesn't
it?  I've never really tested it), and cgfx7 (for getenv).

But we might actually have a working curses library!

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Sat Aug 15 19:48:29 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:48:29 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h66v7r+312f@eGroups.com>
References: <4A85B260.26162.DAE5E81@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<h66v7r+312f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A86E6DD.5051.CCC08A5@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 15 Aug 2009 at 18:36, bv_sh wrote:

> Many thanks for advice- knowing this, I am sure I can 'play about' with
> the Electronic book.

Word of advice from a long time programmer. If you are writing 
programs for it, be sure to allow for a *range* of values. I wouldn't 
trust any particular button to return the same value on two different 
books, espacilly if they've aged. Go for a *range* of values on 
either side of the "right" one.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 19:58:34 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:58:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908151658r36fe334evf4dae2ba85121e1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Willard Goosey<goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:
> OK, last year we had a big thing over the source for a Curses library
> that was on RTSI.
>
> Turns out it was OSK source, rather than OS-9/6X09.
>
> So, last night I finally sat down and hacked at it some, replacing the
> OSK SCF status scructs with the OS-9 versions, and actually got it to
> compile!
>
> (OSK's SCF status tables seem to be VERY deeply nested. ?Ouch!)
>
> There were also a couple of macro calls that c_prep19 didn't like. ?I
> split them off into seperate lines, which made both the compiler and
> my aesthetic sense happier.
>
> The only other change I had to make was that the the compiler didn't
> like comparing the return value of tgetent() to a (char *)1 ?so, after
> reading some about termcap, changed it to check for > 0
>
> You gotta love K&R C -- tgetent() returns -1 on file error, 0 for
> "can't find entry", and, to quote the man page, "some other value" on
> sucess. ;-)
>
> And of course, getting the code to compile doesn't actually mean it'll
> work. ?I'll have to hack up some test code.
>
> Of course, it requires the Kreider Clib (for the OSK-style _ss_* and
> _gs_* functions), termcap (the LII termcap library does work, doesn't
> it? ?I've never really tested it), and cgfx7 (for getenv).
>
> But we might actually have a working curses library!
>

That sounds great.  From programming in the unix world, I know curses
can save you a massive amount of time.
this probably also makes porting things to os9 a bit easier.


> Willard
> --
> Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
> ?-- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 15 21:06:49 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't know how relevant this is, but I was looking for info on what I remember being called Forth09. I thought it was a version of Forth for OS-9, but it turns I can't find a single reference to it. Instead, at this address(http://www.forth.org/compilers.html), I found the following:

CAMEL Forth (6809, 8051, Z80)

       CAMELFORTH FOR THE 6809 - ALPHA TEST VERSION - 7 MAY 1995
       =========================================================

This is an ALPHA TEST version of CamelForth/09, an ANSI Standard Forth
for the Motorola 6809 microprocessor.  This means that, although I have
tested the bulk of this code for correct functioning, you ARE LIKELY to
discover bugs.  I'd appreciate hearing of any such, either


F68KANS (68K)
This is the latest release of the F68KANS Forth development system
for 680x0 computers.

F68KANS is the system following F68K. It is the first high-speed
ANSI (dpANS6) implementation build from scratch.




________________________________
From: Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 4:01:11 PM
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...

OK, I've looked for these on the net and didn't find them.

I'd like to find the docs for:
    Color Profile (Radio Shack)
    eFORTH (FHL)
    Color Max Deluxe

I have legal copies of the software, but no docs. :-(

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 15 21:10:13 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:10:13 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908151658r36fe334evf4dae2ba85121e1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908151658r36fe334evf4dae2ba85121e1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090816011013.GA8150@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 07:58:34PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> 
> That sounds great.  From programming in the unix world, I know curses
> can save you a massive amount of time.
> this probably also makes porting things to os9 a bit easier.

That's the hope anyway! :-)

CURSES is surprisingly complete.  When I first read about it, I was
quite surprised by the support for text-mode windowing it has.
Dispite the legends, they were obviously thinking beyond rogue and VI.

I'm going to pound on it some, make sure it at least sorta works,
before I post my current source anywhere.  Give me a day or two.
Mainly because it's kind of a pain for me to transfer files from the
CoCo to a networked machine.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 15 21:23:08 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:23:08 -0600
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
	<947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090816012308.GB8150@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 06:06:49PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I don't know how relevant this is, but I was looking for info on
> what I remember being called Forth09. I thought it was a version of
> Forth for OS-9, but it turns I can't find a single reference to
> it. 

I know of 2 packages called Forth09.

First, the commercial Forth09 from DP Johnson was apparently a very
nice setup, with both an interpeter and a compiler (which is rare for
Forth).  AFAIK neither the binaries or the docs have shown up in the
"abandonware" archives.

Second, there's a freeware (I forget the exact license) forth09 in the
Princeton archive on maltedmedia.  I've got it, but haven't really
messed with it.  You can download it at:
ftp://www.maltedmedia.com/coco/princeton_os9_files/forth09.cuts and
forthsrc.cuts   You will also need a CUTS decoder for those,
cuts.portable is generic C source, cuts.basic09  is probably the
easiest way to get cuts up and running.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From my8bitters at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:47:14 2009
From: my8bitters at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:47:14 -0700
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6de09fa40908151847o6083f4fehc1a9fafb939c98f7@mail.gmail.com>

Normally these were square and tore out of the magazine. Some other computer
magazines used them too. You usually had to pile some coins on the middle or
they'd skid around and not play.

It looks like just three programs in BASIC - collectible at best.

Neil

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Stephen Adolph <twospruces at gmail.com>wrote:

> http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/clt/1317654644.html
>
> check this out.  I don't even understand what this could be?
>
>


From my8bitters at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:57:20 2009
From: my8bitters at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Coco] A bit more of CoCo history dies...
In-Reply-To: <4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <d6b09ed60908040725v9a066a7i4d3e436daec5fce@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040853tf5bb02araf872a639af79cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6b09ed60908040907y2584182eq9f13a60b74795f07@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d802cd0908040934g6fc63e5axbeaf76f9740468f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A786DBA.7040208@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<5d802cd0908041053l77c7e43ayda9892b9e49beb99@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A78C875.2000009@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <6de09fa40908151857s7f2e4be3w946dd673337bf382@mail.gmail.com>

'Radio Shack' was none too bright of a name. A radio shack was a
wireless/radio structure added on deck to a ship in the early days. It isn't
really copyrightable (unlike Kodak) despite the best efforts of their
lawyers.

OTOH 'The Shack' is even worse - could mean the Love Shack!

Neil

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Steve Bjork <6809er at bjork-huffman.net>wrote:

> "The Shack" re-branding
>
> RadioShack is in the process of re-branding the company as "The Shack" as
> well as re-building corporate culture.
>


From alsplace at pobox.com  Sat Aug 15 23:14:18 2009
From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:14:18 -0500
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <FFE144E9-3727-47DF-ACFB-DD758FA4F539@pobox.com>

Congrats on CoCo Curses! I would love to see if my non-CoCo version of  
EthaWin could be used with that!


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 01:10:54 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
Message-ID: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG. I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually looks a bit more "flickery" due to the process...

Original method was to HPUT a box erasing the old cursor, then HDRAW the cursor in the new location. HDRAW benchmarks @ 200 timer clicks/100 cursor drawing cycles (obviously dependent on complexity of cursor. I use three colors but kept it small and drawn efficiently.)

Modified routine uses HPUT to put cursor on the screen, but requires more overhead... one HBUFF with a 00/FF mask of the cursor, HPUT with AND option, followed by HPUT real cursor with OR option. Benchmarks at <150 timer clicks/100 double-HPUTs, but looks a little more flickery as a solid black cursor is placed and then the "colored in" cursor in a follow-up HPUT command.

My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.

One approach would be to intercept one of the options and make a new HPUT routine that compares pixels to 0, ignoring if 0, basically using PSET option if non 0. I'm thinking this would probably be a semi-complex subroutine compared to my next thought...

I suppose an easier way would be to intercept one of the options. Maybe HPUT the mask but hijack the exit from AND at $EF04 and then (without returning to Basic) increment the HBUFF number, set the OR option flag and re-run the same HPUT command (reset X,Y locations?). This would just require two HBUFFers, mask and cursor, to be defined adjacently.

Thoughts? Coding help?

TIA,
Bob



      


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 01:59:35 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com> <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <602247.44002.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>






----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:18:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?

Arthur Flexser wrote:
> my recollection is that the bugs were neither all that numerous nor
> particularly serious.  It is definitely coded more sloppily than the
> Microsoft CoCo ROMs, true, but that mostly takes the form of wasted bytes
> rather than bugs.
>  
Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and annoying bug. I dont't remember precisely what were the other ones, but I do remember I used to run a patching program upon start-up to correct the most annoying ones. All in all, it seems to me that the SECB patching project had not been taken very seriously be either Tandy or Microware... or both.
>

This was not a "bug" per-se, but a trade-off between quick/approximate/simple code and slow/accurate/complex(large) code. What did the Basic circles look like on the C-64 or other computers of the time? You could also DRAW your own circles with much smoother results.

I'm sure they *all* had their fair share of bugs and quirks in their Basic compilers.


> None of this has any bearing on people buying OS-9,  which makes no use
> whatsoever of the Microware code.
>  
Well, well... Why didn't they (Tandy and/or Microware) made SECB capable of using the whole 128KB (or 512KB) of RAM? I'm not talking about being able to LPOKE/LPEEK all the address space, but being able to load larger programs and hold larger strings. To use the CoCo 3 memory to its full potential, you HAD to buy another product... like OS9, for example,
>

Welcome to marketing 101. They wanted to sell more aftermarket products, not make the basic unit so powerful that you didn't think you'd NEED additional power!

The CoCo is flexible enough that you really don't need those things to take advantage of it's capabilities. LPEEK and LPOKE aside, you still have the power to use any/all of the memory you have installed. HGET/HPUT buffers are the easiest thing to switch to different 8K blocks and have entire different sets of graphics available to Basic (a 128K machine has 1 unused 8K block to play with.) This would also be a good way to add ML sound effects or subroutines to Basic. It's one POKE (not LPOKE) to swap a block of RAM. Then EXEC a subroutine and another POKE to restore RAM. The 8K blocks can be predefined and saved to disk by other Basic programs, just like modern software makers.

theother_bob
--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From adit at nationsdial.com  Sun Aug 16 02:45:17 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:45:17 -0700
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <20090816012308.GB8150@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
	<947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090816012308.GB8150@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>


On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 06:06:49PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>
>> I don't know how relevant this is, but I was looking for info on
>> what I remember being called Forth09. I thought it was a version of
>> Forth for OS-9, but it turns I can't find a single reference to
>> it.
>
> I know of 2 packages called Forth09.
>
> First, the commercial Forth09 from DP Johnson was apparently a very
> nice setup, with both an interpeter and a compiler (which is rare for
> Forth).  AFAIK neither the binaries or the docs have shown up in the
> "abandonware" archives.
>

The docs for Forth09 (DP Johnson) should be up on maltedmedia. I know  
its been scanned since I did it.


Dean 


From devries.bob at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 04:23:16 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:23:16 +1000
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <002001ca1e4a$d00915f0$8230cb70@aceraspire>

Color Max Deluxe has been scanned, and should be out there, since I scanned 
it. Sadly, I'm ~6000km from my collection for the next 3 months.

Yeah, I'm in the Philippines again, spending time with my wife and son.

Brian Palmer may have a copy of Color Max Deluxe available.... Brian?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:01 AM
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...


> OK, I've looked for these on the net and didn't find them.
>
> I'd like to find the docs for:
> Color Profile (Radio Shack)
> eFORTH (FHL)
> Color Max Deluxe
>
> I have legal copies of the software, but no docs. :-(
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:07:15 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:07:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
In-Reply-To: <602247.44002.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
	<602247.44002.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A87CC43.9@gmail.com>

theother_bob wrote:
> Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and 
> annoying bug.
>
> This was not a "bug" per-se, but a trade-off between quick/approximate/simple code and slow/accurate/complex(large) code. 
Call it a bad implementation instead of a bug if you prefer. IIRC, 
BASIC09 and the GFX2 module *could* draw good looking circles...

Do you agree that they could have done a better patching job? They had a 
lot of free ROM space (more than 6KB) to hold more and better patches.

> What did the Basic circles look like on the C-64 or other computers of the time? 
If you read the first message I posted under this thread, you will see 
that I consider ECB to be better than the BASIC on the C64. That being 
said, mediocrity is not an example to follow. I also said in my first 
post that one of the CoCo's strengths (before the CoCo 3) was its BASIC 
interpreter; the poor CoCo didn't do well in the sound & graphics area, 
so it had to offer something else to compensate for this handicap.

Don't forget the CoCo 3 was released in 1986, and by then there were 
better competitors than the 1982 C64 (which still surpassed the CoCo 3 
in some aspects). The 8-bitters were definitely on the downward slope. 
More advanced computers like the Amiga, the Atari ST, and the PC AT were 
already on the market.

When Tandy introduced the CoCo 3, boasting about its whopping 128KB of 
memory, I genuinely thought that I would be able to really benefit from 
the extra memory with the new, "Super" ECB. It turns out that this extra 
memory was only available for graphics purposes.

> Welcome to marketing 101. They wanted to sell more aftermarket products, not make the basic unit so powerful that you didn't think you'd NEED additional power!
>   
That "marketing" scheme left people in a twisted kind of situation where 
to be able to use the available 128KB in a sensible way to write larger 
BASIC programs, they would have to purchase a disk drive, OS-9 and a 
512KB memory board (in order to be able to run BASIC09 with a decent 
amount of free memory).

> The CoCo is flexible enough that you really don't need those things to take advantage of it's capabilities. [...] It's one POKE (not LPOKE) to swap a block of RAM. Then EXEC a subroutine and another POKE to restore RAM. The 8K blocks can be predefined and saved to disk by other Basic programs, just like modern software makers.
>   
Well of course, you can use assembly language (which implies you first 
have to learn it, and also buy an assembler) to program the CoCo 3 and 
make it do tricks you normally can't do with BASIC, but what if you just 
want to program in plain vanilla BASIC? When a BASIC programmer has to 
manage the computer's memory "by hand" using a bunch of POKEs, PEEKs, 
and EXECs, I say the BASIC implementation he's using is not well 
designed. My opinion is that SECB did not live up to the expectations 
and was a weak attempt at enhancing Extended Color BASIC.




From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Sun Aug 16 07:57:14 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:57:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>

theother_bob wrote:
> I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG. I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually looks a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
> 
> Original method was to HPUT a box erasing the old cursor, then HDRAW the cursor in the new location. HDRAW benchmarks @ 200 timer clicks/100 cursor drawing cycles (obviously dependent on complexity of cursor. I use three colors but kept it small and drawn efficiently.)
> 
> Modified routine uses HPUT to put cursor on the screen, but requires more overhead... one HBUFF with a 00/FF mask of the cursor, HPUT with AND option, followed by HPUT real cursor with OR option. Benchmarks at <150 timer clicks/100 double-HPUTs, but looks a little more flickery as a solid black cursor is placed and then the "colored in" cursor in a follow-up HPUT command.
> 
> My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
> 
> One approach would be to intercept one of the options and make a new HPUT routine that compares pixels to 0, ignoring if 0, basically using PSET option if non 0. I'm thinking this would probably be a semi-complex subroutine compared to my next thought...
> 
> I suppose an easier way would be to intercept one of the options. Maybe HPUT the mask but hijack the exit from AND at $EF04 and then (without returning to Basic) increment the HBUFF number, set the OR option flag and re-run the same HPUT command (reset X,Y locations?). This would just require two HBUFFers, mask and cursor, to be defined adjacently.
> 
> Thoughts? Coding help?
> 
> TIA,
> Bob
> 

The ROM code for HPUT is fairly complex. Modifying it to include more 
options can only make it run slower.
The only thing I can vaguely remember is that keeping HPUT boundaries 
exactly equal to bytes lets the routine run faster because the 
conversion of pixels to bytes is faster.

If the above is true, I'd suggest trying to ensure that for the 
particular HSCREEN in use, your HBUFF and HPUT routines use rectangles 
which are exact byte multiples. So for example, if you are in HSCREEN2 - 
a 16 color mode - your HPUT box should be x*2pixels wide. Put another 
way, in HSCREEN2 you should find:
10 HPUT (0,0)-(6,5),1,OR    0,1,2,3,4,5,6    3.5 bytes wide
is slower than
10 HPUT (0,0)-(7,5),1,OR    0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7  4.0 bytes wide
even though the second is larger.

I did try a brief test of the above commands timed in a FOR/NEXT loop of 
  1 to 10000. I did not use TIMER but a real time clock. Each loop took 
20 seconds for no discernible difference.

Want to post the exact code you ran tests on, so we can see how it works 
for us?


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 16 08:40:44 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:40:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org><947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090816012308.GB8150@virgo.sdc.org>
	<574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>
Message-ID: <C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>

I found a DECB version of FORTH, CF83.  It's a .DSK file inside a zip'd file
"Coco Disks (2008-10-09).zip" which I don't remember where I got.

Leo Brodies "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth" are available online.  The
1st is web-only, and the 2nd is a PDF. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:45 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re: requesting scans of docs...
> 
> 
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 06:06:49PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know how relevant this is, but I was looking for 
> info on what 
> >> I remember being called Forth09. I thought it was a 
> version of Forth 
> >> for OS-9, but it turns I can't find a single reference to it.
> >
> > I know of 2 packages called Forth09.
> >
> > First, the commercial Forth09 from DP Johnson was apparently a very 
> > nice setup, with both an interpeter and a compiler (which 
> is rare for 
> > Forth).  AFAIK neither the binaries or the docs have shown 
> up in the 
> > "abandonware" archives.
> >
> 
> The docs for Forth09 (DP Johnson) should be up on 
> maltedmedia. I know its been scanned since I did it.
> 
> 
> Dean 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From wschaub at steubentech.com  Sun Aug 16 10:08:01 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:08:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>

Thats great news! If I ever get around to getting serious with OS9 I 
will want to use this with the C compiler to make (or possibly port) 
some applications.

actually the #1 killer app would be something like vi for os9. that line 
editor that is bundled really is painful, even with a copy of the manual 
in front of me.





From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 11:13:13 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:13:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908161113.13414.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG.
> I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually looks
> a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
>
>Original method was to HPUT a box erasing the old cursor, then HDRAW the
> cursor in the new location. HDRAW benchmarks @ 200 timer clicks/100 cursor
> drawing cycles (obviously dependent on complexity of cursor. I use three
> colors but kept it small and drawn efficiently.)
>
>Modified routine uses HPUT to put cursor on the screen, but requires more
> overhead... one HBUFF with a 00/FF mask of the cursor, HPUT with AND
> option, followed by HPUT real cursor with OR option. Benchmarks at <150
> timer clicks/100 double-HPUTs, but looks a little more flickery as a solid
> black cursor is placed and then the "colored in" cursor in a follow-up HPUT
> command.
>
>My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I
> want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
>
>One approach would be to intercept one of the options and make a new HPUT
> routine that compares pixels to 0, ignoring if 0, basically using PSET
> option if non 0. I'm thinking this would probably be a semi-complex
> subroutine compared to my next thought...
>
>I suppose an easier way would be to intercept one of the options. Maybe HPUT
> the mask but hijack the exit from AND at $EF04 and then (without returning
> to Basic) increment the HBUFF number, set the OR option flag and re-run the
> same HPUT command (reset X,Y locations?). This would just require two
> HBUFFers, mask and cursor, to be defined adjacently.
>
>Thoughts? Coding help?

Historically, cursors have been a single xor operation.  Put the curser in its 
buffer box, xor that buffer to the screen location to draw it, xor the same 
data to erase it, then move it to the new location and xor it there.  That 
reduces the usage of a bunch of buffers to just one, and the screen updates 
are going to be about as fast as the coco can do them, which isn't going to be 
entirely flicker free.  Only use more cursor buffers if you want to have 
multiple cursor styles to indicate the sort of an operation that a click will 
perform.  They of course can be pre-drawn so your proggy only has to do it 
once.

BTW, way back in history, someone tried to patent that xor operation for 
cursor drawing, but it was soon blown away by prior art from xerox parc, plus 
the fact that its the most intuitive way to do it.  That was probably the 
first of thousands of software patents the USPTO has dropped the ball with.  
That place needs to be abolished.  Where it was once a driver of innovation by 
securing the innovator an exclusive right for a limited time, it has now 
become a tool of Disney and a severe limitation on innovation because this 
exclusivity doesn't expire in a timely manner.  Software itself moves so fast 
that even the original 7 years is about 10x too long.

>TIA,
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
(Bruce Ediger, bediger at teal.csn.org, in comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 11:22:41 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:22:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
	<574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>
	<C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <200908161122.41880.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, Paul Fitch wrote:
>I found a DECB version of FORTH, CF83.  It's a .DSK file inside a zip'd file
>"Coco Disks (2008-10-09).zip" which I don't remember where I got.
>
>Leo Brodies "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth" are available online.  The
>1st is web-only, and the 2nd is a PDF.

I _think_ I have a copy of 'Starting Forth' by Leo, but I'm not sure I could 
find it yet today in the 20 year old midden heap that is my basement.  And 
somewhere, I did have a copy of Forth, probably CF83, but haven't stumbled 
over that in 20+ years.  I'd assume it is somewhere in the thousand or so 
floppies stashed in those little wooden/plastic covered bread boxes.

If someone wants to make me an offer I can't refuse, I could be cajoled into 
looking for it. :)

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
>> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:45 AM
>> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re: requesting scans of docs...
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:
>> > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 06:06:49PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>> >> I don't know how relevant this is, but I was looking for
>>
>> info on what
>>
>> >> I remember being called Forth09. I thought it was a
>>
>> version of Forth
>>
>> >> for OS-9, but it turns I can't find a single reference to it.
>> >
>> > I know of 2 packages called Forth09.
>> >
>> > First, the commercial Forth09 from DP Johnson was apparently a very
>> > nice setup, with both an interpeter and a compiler (which
>>
>> is rare for
>>
>> > Forth).  AFAIK neither the binaries or the docs have shown
>>
>> up in the
>>
>> > "abandonware" archives.
>>
>> The docs for Forth09 (DP Johnson) should be up on
>> maltedmedia. I know its been scanned since I did it.
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Reformatting Page. Wait...



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 11:31:56 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:31:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, William Schaub wrote:
>Thats great news! If I ever get around to getting serious with OS9 I
>will want to use this with the C compiler to make (or possibly port)
>some applications.
>
>actually the #1 killer app would be something like vi for os9. that line
>editor that is bundled really is painful, even with a copy of the manual
>in front of me.

We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made from the 
tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by Eddie 
Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be renamed because of 
the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an unfortunate choice IMNSHO.  
Gives some crazy error messages. :(

I've done that to my copy, but ATM can't recall what I renamed it to, using 
dEd of course.  If perms to put the rename patched version on rtsi could be 
obtained, I could probably do that if there is enough demand.  Its the only 
editor we have that you can start with a #56k argument.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

tachyon emissions overloading the system



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 12:10:10 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <200908161113.13414.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200908161113.13414.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <480364.26648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:13:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)

On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG.
> I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually looks
> a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
>
<snip>
>
>My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I
> want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
>
<snip>
>
>Thoughts? Coding help?

Historically, cursors have been a single xor operation.  Put the curser in its 
buffer box, xor that buffer to the screen location to draw it, xor the same 
data to erase it, then move it to the new location and xor it there.  That 
reduces the usage of a bunch of buffers to just one, and the screen updates 
are going to be about as fast as the coco can do them, which isn't going to be 
entirely flicker free.  Only use more cursor buffers if you want to have 
multiple cursor styles to indicate the sort of an operation that a click will 
perform.  They of course can be pre-drawn so your proggy only has to do it 
once.
>
<snip>


 This seems like it would be great for B&W, and I may use it in a hires, 4-color version,
but on HSCREEN2 it mixes the colors, which is "undesirable" in this case. 

My cursor uses 3 palette colors, so I have to mask out (zero out) the colors behind it
before ORing it into place.

If the HPUT command included the XOR option, it would probably have been broken anyway,
like the NOT option is.

Bob


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
(Bruce Ediger, bediger at teal.csn.org, in comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 12:34:02 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:34:02 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <480364.26648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200908161113.13414.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<480364.26648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908161234.02200.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:13:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
>
>On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>>I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG.
>> I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually
>> looks a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
>
><snip>
>
>>My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I
>> want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
>
><snip>
>
>>Thoughts? Coding help?
>
>Historically, cursors have been a single xor operation.  Put the curser in
> its buffer box, xor that buffer to the screen location to draw it, xor the
> same data to erase it, then move it to the new location and xor it there. 
> That reduces the usage of a bunch of buffers to just one, and the screen
> updates are going to be about as fast as the coco can do them, which isn't
> going to be entirely flicker free.  Only use more cursor buffers if you
> want to have multiple cursor styles to indicate the sort of an operation
> that a click will perform.  They of course can be pre-drawn so your proggy
> only has to do it once.
>
><snip>
>
>
> This seems like it would be great for B&W, and I may use it in a hires,
> 4-color version, but on HSCREEN2 it mixes the colors, which is
> "undesirable" in this case.
>
>My cursor uses 3 palette colors, so I have to mask out (zero out) the colors
> behind it before ORing it into place.
>
>If the HPUT command included the XOR option, it would probably have been
> broken anyway, like the NOT option is.
>
>Bob

Well, in fairness, I was referring to those operations in os9.  They seem to 
work fairly well.  Is there any room to patch the HPUT?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

History repeats itself.  That's one thing wrong with history.



From skwirl42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 12:52:35 2009
From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:52:35 -0300
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
	<200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4c56cbd30908160952s72a01bfax2632b7a36828d8f3@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:

> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco. ?Its made from the
> tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by Eddie
> Kuhns. ?Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be renamed because of
> the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an unfortunate choice IMNSHO.
> Gives some crazy error messages. :(

Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.

-- 
James Dessart
<http://ideaoubliette.blogspot.com/>


From adit at nationsdial.com  Sun Aug 16 12:55:01 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:55:01 -0700
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org><947609.54837.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090816012308.GB8150@virgo.sdc.org>
	<574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>
	<C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <68882DC4-CC02-40AF-8D9D-05B23E93CA8C@nationsdial.com>


On Aug 16, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Paul Fitch wrote:

> I found a DECB version of FORTH, CF83.  It's a .DSK file inside a  
> zip'd file
> "Coco Disks (2008-10-09).zip" which I don't remember where I got.
>
Ah yes, I forgot about that. I have a few of those disks (real not  
DSK) here somewhere.  CF83 wasn't just 1 disk tho. You could get the  
basic Forth on one disk, but they sold various 'expansions' to the  
basic Forth which you had to buy separately.

Dean


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 13:33:29 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 6:57:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)

theother_bob wrote:
> I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG. I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually looks a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
> 
> Original method was to HPUT a box erasing the old cursor, then HDRAW the cursor in the new location. HDRAW benchmarks @ 200 timer clicks/100 cursor drawing cycles (obviously dependent on complexity of cursor. I use three colors but kept it small and drawn efficiently.)
> 
> Modified routine uses HPUT to put cursor on the screen, but requires more overhead... one HBUFF with a 00/FF mask of the cursor, HPUT with AND option, followed by HPUT real cursor with OR option. Benchmarks at <150 timer clicks/100 double-HPUTs, but looks a little more flickery as a solid black cursor is placed and then the "colored in" cursor in a follow-up HPUT command.
> 
> My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
> 
> One approach would be to intercept one of the options and make a new HPUT routine that compares pixels to 0, ignoring if 0, basically using PSET option if non 0. I'm thinking this would probably be a semi-complex subroutine compared to my next thought...
> 
> I suppose an easier way would be to intercept one of the options. Maybe HPUT the mask but hijack the exit from AND at $EF04 and then (without returning to Basic) increment the HBUFF number, set the OR option flag and re-run the same HPUT command (reset X,Y locations?). This would just require two HBUFFers, mask and cursor, to be defined adjacently.
> 
> Thoughts? Coding help?
> 
> TIA,
> Bob
> 

The ROM code for HPUT is fairly complex. Modifying it to include more options can only make it run slower.
The only thing I can vaguely remember is that keeping HPUT boundaries exactly equal to bytes lets the routine run faster because the conversion of pixels to bytes is faster.

If the above is true, I'd suggest trying to ensure that for the particular HSCREEN in use, your HBUFF and HPUT routines use rectangles which are exact byte multiples. So for example, if you are in HSCREEN2 - a 16 color mode - your HPUT box should be x*2pixels wide. Put another way, in HSCREEN2 you should find:
10 HPUT (0,0)-(6,5),1,OR    0,1,2,3,4,5,6    3.5 bytes wide
is slower than
10 HPUT (0,0)-(7,5),1,OR    0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7  4.0 bytes wide
even though the second is larger.
>
I did try a brief test of the above commands timed in a FOR/NEXT loop of  1 to 10000. I did not use TIMER but a real time clock. Each loop took 20 seconds for no discernible difference.
>
Want to post the exact code you ran tests on, so we can see how it works for us?

>

While I agree that the mod I'm thinking of would make the routine slower, my thinking is that an ML routine running *itself* in two passes would be faster than Basic running the ML routine twice. I do see that I need to be more careful in planning my sizes and locations. I've already thought of modifying the ML joystick routine to crop and scale the numbers... I can force it to even numbers while I'm at it.

Basically I'm using Color FOG as a testbench in Kiel's CC3 emulator. You have to run FOG.BAS first to get the GUI up and running. Press Q, Brk or X to quit the program (Pressing Q is quicker as it skips the "are you sure?" dialog.)
Line 128 is where the cursor background is saved and a new cursor drawn...

128 HGET(CX-6,CY)-(CX,CY+4),1:HDRAWD$(0)  

To benchmark this routine I do this...

128 TIMER=0:FORCX=1TO100:HGET(CX-6,CY)-(CX,CY+4),1:HDRAWD$(0):NEXT:TI=TIMER:K$="Q":GOTO131

The timer is saved in variable TI as soon as the loop is done. The last part simulates pressing Q to quit the program as soon as the loop is done... kind of important. As soon as I'm at a prompt I issue ?TI to see how long it took. I tried it without changing CX also, but I didn't try it with all odd vs all even values of CX. Repeated runs came out in the high 190s.

For the HPUT test, I had to create more HBUFFers and "populate" them, but you can skip that and just HPUT the same buffer just grabbed. You won't see anything this way, but the timing comes out the same, around 146.

128 TIMER=0:FORCX=10 TO 110:HGET(CX-6,CY)-(CX,CY+4),1:HPUT(CX-6,CY)-(CX,CY+4),1,AND:HPUT(CX-6,CY)-(CX,CY+4),1,OR:NEXT:TI=TIMER:K$="Q":GOTO131

Even though this line is bigger and more coplex, it finishes the loop about 25% faster.  I suspect that by fine-tuning HPUT I could get closer to a 50% improvement in cursor drawing speed, or maintain current speeds with a larger cursor.

SO many ideas... so little time to try them all!
Bob


      


From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 13:45:03 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <200908161234.02200.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200908161113.13414.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<480364.26648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200908161234.02200.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <912880.5279.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>






----- Original Message ----
From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:34:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)

On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:13:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
>
>On Sunday 16 August 2009, theother_bob wrote:
>>I'm experimenting with speeding up the cursor drawing routine in Color FOG.
>> I've found that while I can get faster results with HPUT, it actually
>> looks a bit more "flickery" due to the process...
>
><snip>
>
>>My goal is to speed up the process to a single HPUT operation. Basically I
>> want to support "transparency" in HPUT by ignoring pixels of palette 0.
>
><snip>
>
>>Thoughts? Coding help?
>
>Historically, cursors have been a single xor operation.  Put the curser in
> its buffer box, xor that buffer to the screen location to draw it, xor the
> same data to erase it, then move it to the new location and xor it there. 
> That reduces the usage of a bunch of buffers to just one, and the screen
> updates are going to be about as fast as the coco can do them, which isn't
> going to be entirely flicker free.  Only use more cursor buffers if you
> want to have multiple cursor styles to indicate the sort of an operation
> that a click will perform.  They of course can be pre-drawn so your proggy
> only has to do it once.
>
><snip>
>
>
> This seems like it would be great for B&W, and I may use it in a hires,
> 4-color version, but on HSCREEN2 it mixes the colors, which is
> "undesirable" in this case.
>
>My cursor uses 3 palette colors, so I have to mask out (zero out) the colors
> behind it before ORing it into place.
>
>If the HPUT command included the XOR option, it would probably have been
> broken anyway, like the NOT option is.
>
>Bob

Well, in fairness, I was referring to those operations in os9.  They seem to 
work fairly well.  Is there any room to patch the HPUT?
>

I'm sure I could find a few dozen bytes to insert some intermediate code.
I've already patched HPRINT in a similar manner. Those 13 bytes make a
huge difference in program overhead by not having to clear the background first.
It should have been an optional flag on the HPRINT command.

Bob


      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 14:15:37 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:15:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <4c56cbd30908160952s72a01bfax2632b7a36828d8f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4c56cbd30908160952s72a01bfax2632b7a36828d8f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, James Dessart wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net> 
wrote:
>> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made from the
>> tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by Eddie
>> Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be renamed
>> because of the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an unfortunate
>> choice IMNSHO. Gives some crazy error messages. :(
>
>Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
>CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.

Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have called it 
ed since I don't have one of those original beasts installed.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Weekend, where are you?



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 14:33:46 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] SECB (was:Re:  RAINBOW vinyl records?)
In-Reply-To: <4A87CC43.9@gmail.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy>
	<7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net>
	<4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com> <4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com>
	<4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com>
	<dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com>
	<602247.44002.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A87CC43.9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <277168.70135.qm@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:07:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?

theother_bob wrote:
> Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very obvious and annoying bug.
> 
> This was not a "bug" per-se, but a trade-off between quick/approximate/simple code and slow/accurate/complex(large) code. 
Call it a bad implementation instead of a bug if you prefer. IIRC, BASIC09 and the GFX2 module *could* draw good looking circles...
>
>Do you agree that they could have done a better patching job? They had a lot of free ROM space (more than 6KB) to hold more and better patches.
>

I don't think anyone would argue that SECB was the best it could have been.

>
>When Tandy introduced the CoCo 3, boasting about its whopping 128KB of memory, I genuinely thought that I would be able to really benefit from the extra memory with the new, "Super" ECB. It turns out that this extra memory was only available for graphics purposes.
>

Yeah, I think most of us expected it to be easier to access the additional memory. 
Wonder how many product returns were due to this non-implementation.

>  
>Well of course, you can use assembly language (which implies you first have to learn it, and also buy an assembler) to program the CoCo 3 and make it do tricks you normally can't do with BASIC, but what if you just want to program in plain vanilla BASIC? When a BASIC programmer has to manage the computer's memory "by hand" using a bunch of POKEs, PEEKs, and EXECs, I say the BASIC implementation he's using is not well designed. My opinion is that SECB did not live up to the expectations and was a weak attempt at enhancing Extended Color BASIC.
>

I'm not using an assembler nor am I an ML programmer. I can look at the ROM dissassembly and figure out what it's doing though, and figure out ways to make small patches to better leverage the existing code.

You can do everything I'm doing in plain-vanilla 128K basic too. It will just take longer. I *chose* to use patches because I want better results than plain vanilla basic can deliver.

Yes, SECB has lots of flaws. It could have been better but it could have been worse. A few POKEs are not that big a deal. With minimal behind the scenes work you can fool people into thinking Basic is ML. In fact, reading the ROM dissassembly and figuring out small patches is a GREAT way to teach yourself a little something about ML, just like other people's Basic listings help you learn Basic techniques.

I also typed in a few Commodore programs back in the day, probably 60% POKEs, and that's probably why I think the CoCo's Basic (even SECB) was light-years better than others. I do wish Tandy had done a better job at the time, but it is what it is. IMHO there's *still* no better Basic to play around in.

Cheers,
Bob

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 15:05:15 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:05:15 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <FFE144E9-3727-47DF-ACFB-DD758FA4F539@pobox.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<FFE144E9-3727-47DF-ACFB-DD758FA4F539@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20090816190515.GA9395@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:14:18PM -0500, Allen Huffman wrote:
> Congrats on CoCo Curses! I would love to see if my non-CoCo version of  
> EthaWin could be used with that!

Wow!  That would be a hard-core test of curses!

I didn't get to test it last night. :-(  One of my housemates decided
I had to help her put together a new bed.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 15:07:18 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:07:18 -0600
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <002001ca1e4a$d00915f0$8230cb70@aceraspire>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
	<002001ca1e4a$d00915f0$8230cb70@aceraspire>
Message-ID: <20090816190718.GB9395@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 06:23:16PM +1000, Bob Devries wrote:
> Color Max Deluxe has been scanned, and should be out there, since I scanned 
> it. Sadly, I'm ~6000km from my collection for the next 3 months.

OK, I'll look some more.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 15:18:08 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:18:08 -0600
Subject: [Coco] FORTH on coco was Re:  requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
References: <574FFCDF-12CF-4D08-9657-4A45B6B71D9D@nationsdial.com>
	<C909BE0A85344C948B039820A8A80325@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <20090816191808.GA10171@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 08:40:44AM -0400, Paul Fitch wrote:
> I found a DECB version of FORTH, CF83.  It's a .DSK file inside a zip'd file
> "Coco Disks (2008-10-09).zip" which I don't remember where I got.

Well, for DECB forths there was also FHL's eFORTH (which I'd like the
docs for) and dacforth, which is in the old Princeton archive on
maltedmedia.  I think there were a couple of others, too, but I don't
have them.

> Leo Brodies "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth" are available online.  The
> 1st is web-only, and the 2nd is a PDF. 

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 15:30:38 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:30:38 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <20090816193038.GB10171@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:08:01AM -0400, William Schaub wrote:
> Thats great news! If I ever get around to getting serious with OS9 I 
> will want to use this with the C compiler to make (or possibly port) 
> some applications.

Give me a couple of days to pound on it, make sure it works.  I've got
some quickie programs I wrote when I was first playing with curses on
my 3b1.  I'm going to transfer them over and (hopefully) compile them
under OS-9.

> actually the #1 killer app would be something like vi for os9. that line 
> editor that is bundled really is painful, even with a copy of the manual 
> in front of me.

Heh, gotta agree.  But there's plenty of alternitives.  People have
already mentioned TSEDIT with the LII patch.  SCRED (in the LII dev
system) is also vi-like.  There's a version of the vi clone stevie on
rtsi. Moving away from vi-clones, there's uemacs on rtsi, and
Colorful_SLED seems to work OK (but it's completely its own editor,
not an anything-clone).  I haven't tried SLED23 (colorful SLED is a
fork of SLED).

Cloud-9 still sells VED.  If you've got the money, I've never heard
anything but good things about VED.

Curses.c is long enough that I have to use Dynastar (a wordstar clone)
instead of my favorite uemacs to edit it.  

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 15:36:16 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:36:16 -0600
Subject: [Coco] tsedit patches was Re:  curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4c56cbd30908160952s72a01bfax2632b7a36828d8f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090816193616.GC10171@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 02:15:37PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have
> called it ed since I don't have one of those original beasts
> installed.

???

I just changed the editor's name back to tsedit.  It's the device
descriptors that have the 2 char limit on names.

(But then how does /term and /ftdd and /pipe work then?  I never
understood that.)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From petrander at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 15:41:11 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:41:11 +0200
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <dcc956220908161241h7dc78bc5p11cc8dff8f86e63a@mail.gmail.com>

I should have Color Profile either already scanned in or ready to be scanned
in somewhere. Perhaps the same for FHL's Forth, but I am less sure. I
haven't yet stumbled upon Color Max Deluxe.
Cheers,
Fedor

2009/8/16 Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>

> OK, I've looked for these on the net and didn't find them.
>
> I'd like to find the docs for:
>        Color Profile (Radio Shack)
>        eFORTH (FHL)
>        Color Max Deluxe
>
> I have legal copies of the software, but no docs. :-(
>
> Willard
> --
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 16 16:28:19 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:28:19 -0600
Subject: [Coco] requesting scans of docs...
In-Reply-To: <dcc956220908161241h7dc78bc5p11cc8dff8f86e63a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090815230111.GA3209@virgo.sdc.org>
	<dcc956220908161241h7dc78bc5p11cc8dff8f86e63a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090816202819.GA13716@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 09:41:11PM +0200, Fedor Steeman wrote:
> I should have Color Profile either already scanned in or ready to be scanned
> in somewhere. Perhaps the same for FHL's Forth, but I am less sure. I
> haven't yet stumbled upon Color Max Deluxe.

OK, cool.  There's no big hurry on them.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Sun Aug 16 15:49:12 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:49:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908161131.56381.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4c56cbd30908160952s72a01bfax2632b7a36828d8f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090816194912.GA6405@tuxdriver.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 02:15:37PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 16 August 2009, James Dessart wrote:
> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net> 
> wrote:
> >> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made from the
> >> tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by Eddie
> >> Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be renamed
> >> because of the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an unfortunate
> >> choice IMNSHO. Gives some crazy error messages. :(
> >
> >Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
> >CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.
> 
> Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have called it 
> ed since I don't have one of those original beasts installed.

Use the source, Gene!  Change the name in CVS!

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 16 17:46:46 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:46:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] SECB (was:Re:  RAINBOW vinyl records?)
In-Reply-To: <277168.70135.qm@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <d6b09ed60908131811oc422c4fg61d41d2d33843846@mail.gmail.com><1b52e6c80908131827u2e2d0a36s7ca7c68078312b1d@mail.gmail.com><6118AA457E80407AB14B4E8CD0A57484@speedy><7D15FC14-F984-45CA-8413-DA6402063BF9@sasktel.net><4A84CCDB.9090807@gmail.com>
	<4A85748E.5010700@steubentech.com><4A85D476.4060504@gmail.com><dbdeb2610908141654p6f0965d3q2a5964ed979d4682@mail.gmail.com><4A860CE4.2010203@gmail.com><602247.44002.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A87CC43.9@gmail.com>
	<277168.70135.qm@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <92D8C8E549804E86B64E378E9AFB45AB@Dell3Gig>

I remember when I got my 1st Coco, my roommate got a Vic-20.  He then
immediately upgraded to a C-64 as soon as he could.  I remember their basic
listings having so many pokes in them, I thought "Whats to point of trying
to learn basic on this machine, when you can't figure out what all the pokes
are doing when you read the listings?" 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of theother_bob
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:34 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] SECB (was:Re: RAINBOW vinyl records?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:07:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
> 
> theother_bob wrote:
> > Well, circles that don't look like circles was a very 
> obvious and annoying bug.
> > 
> > This was not a "bug" per-se, but a trade-off between 
> quick/approximate/simple code and slow/accurate/complex(large) code. 
> Call it a bad implementation instead of a bug if you prefer. 
> IIRC, BASIC09 and the GFX2 module *could* draw good looking circles...
> >
> >Do you agree that they could have done a better patching 
> job? They had a lot of free ROM space (more than 6KB) to hold 
> more and better patches.
> >
> 
> I don't think anyone would argue that SECB was the best it 
> could have been.
> 
> >
> >When Tandy introduced the CoCo 3, boasting about its 
> whopping 128KB of memory, I genuinely thought that I would be 
> able to really benefit from the extra memory with the new, 
> "Super" ECB. It turns out that this extra memory was only 
> available for graphics purposes.
> >
> 
> Yeah, I think most of us expected it to be easier to access 
> the additional memory. 
> Wonder how many product returns were due to this non-implementation.
> 
> >  
> >Well of course, you can use assembly language (which implies 
> you first have to learn it, and also buy an assembler) to 
> program the CoCo 3 and make it do tricks you normally can't 
> do with BASIC, but what if you just want to program in plain 
> vanilla BASIC? When a BASIC programmer has to manage the 
> computer's memory "by hand" using a bunch of POKEs, PEEKs, 
> and EXECs, I say the BASIC implementation he's using is not 
> well designed. My opinion is that SECB did not live up to the 
> expectations and was a weak attempt at enhancing Extended Color BASIC.
> >
> 
> I'm not using an assembler nor am I an ML programmer. I can 
> look at the ROM dissassembly and figure out what it's doing 
> though, and figure out ways to make small patches to better 
> leverage the existing code.
> 
> You can do everything I'm doing in plain-vanilla 128K basic 
> too. It will just take longer. I *chose* to use patches 
> because I want better results than plain vanilla basic can deliver.
> 
> Yes, SECB has lots of flaws. It could have been better but it 
> could have been worse. A few POKEs are not that big a deal. 
> With minimal behind the scenes work you can fool people into 
> thinking Basic is ML. In fact, reading the ROM dissassembly 
> and figuring out small patches is a GREAT way to teach 
> yourself a little something about ML, just like other 
> people's Basic listings help you learn Basic techniques.
> 
> I also typed in a few Commodore programs back in the day, 
> probably 60% POKEs, and that's probably why I think the 
> CoCo's Basic (even SECB) was light-years better than others. 
> I do wish Tandy had done a better job at the time, but it is 
> what it is. IMHO there's *still* no better Basic to play around in.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bob
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From lothan at newsguy.com  Sun Aug 16 19:19:41 2009
From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:19:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090816193038.GB10171@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org><4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
	<20090816193038.GB10171@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <412AC39D3D6D46A6BD59DBA14005DB99@Crossfire>

Is DynaStar available on the 'net anywhere? I've been looking for a good 
copy for a while but haven't found one yet.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:30 PM
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!

> Curses.c is long enough that I have to use Dynastar (a wordstar clone)
> instead of my favorite uemacs to edit it.
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sun Aug 16 20:11:30 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:11:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090816194912.GA6405@tuxdriver.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<20090816194912.GA6405@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <200908162011.30346.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Sunday 16 August 2009, John W. Linville wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 02:15:37PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 16 August 2009, James Dessart wrote:
>> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>>
>> wrote:
>> >> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made from
>> >> the tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by
>> >> Eddie Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be
>> >> renamed because of the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an
>> >> unfortunate choice IMNSHO. Gives some crazy error messages. :(
>> >
>> >Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
>> >CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.
>>
>> Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have
>> called it ed since I don't have one of those original beasts installed.
>
>Use the source, Gene!  Change the name in CVS!
>
>John

I have the cvs checkout here, but where in the tree is it?  locate vi |grep 
nitros9 isn't getting any hits on that.

Thanks John.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

* wichert_ imagines master without a MTA
<james> wichert: ehm?  that might hinder peformance of the BTS :p



From farna at att.net  Sun Aug 16 21:42:48 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:42:48 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RAINBOW vinyl records?
Message-ID: <4A88B598.5040504@att.net>

theother_bob wrote:
That "marketing" scheme left people in a twisted kind of situation where 
to be able to use the available 128KB in a sensible way to write larger 
BASIC programs, they would have to purchase a disk drive, OS-9 and a 
512KB memory board (in order to be able to run BASIC09 with a decent 
amount of free memory).
-----------

You'd really have needed a disk drive no matter what. You can't think that a cassette recorder would have been very useful! When programs were 4K or so it was okay, but try to use it for some real work. I know people have, and I tried some relatively serious word processing with a Scripsit cartridge and tape drive. So irritating and frustrating to lose work! I bought some of the best tapes and used two different ones to save work on, and made multiple saves often. STILL lost some  work, and had to try 2-3 times to load. Had to break the book I was writing into 10 page segments. After about a year of making the thing work, I said to hell with it and bought some used IBM drives and a new disk controller. This was around 1987. I had been in the USAF four years and had a three year old and wife. Repackaged my CoCo 2 in a wood box (I was a carpenter in the USAF at first) lined with tin foil grounded to the motherboard to prevent RF interference and have a place to mount the disk drives. No fancy power supply, CoCo used the original, I mail ordered a surplus +12/+5 power supply (which I still have!) to power the drives, just spliced the cord so there was only one. 

I can't imagine trying to load and/or save 128K or code or data on a #$%#$% tape. The ectra memory did take some work to use, but could be used for data as well as graphics. If nothing else a small RAM drive was useful. 

Besides, two different software packages DID extend BASIC memory access in an easier method. One was "512 BASIC", I forget the other. Yes, extra things you had to buy, and I'm pretty sure they didn't work in 128K, or rather didn't provide enough extra memory to be worth the trouble. The M/L code had to replace the ROMS in RAM too. Then there were distribution problems -- only someone with a copy of the program could run anything you wrote. If Tandy had included something like that in the ROMs, I guess the computer may have been a bit more useful though. 

We're beating a dead horse either way. Tandy didn't do any of those tings. We're darn lucky they invested the money to make the CoCo 3 at all -- their PC sales were so much more profitable. If it hadn't been for a few real CoCo enthusiasts in the company who pushed it, there wouldn't have been one. 

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)




From smostrom7 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 17 01:20:41 2009
From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:20:41 -0500
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC
	BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h67aed+kj0r@eGroups.com>
References: <h67aed+kj0r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <D0EF41319E594BE8965BDDD5A1B397BA@OstromPC>

In my collection I have :

Earthquake, #26-7345 (disk)
Maze Master, #26-2541 (tape)
Number Factory, #26-2543 (tape)
Shape Maker, #26-2542 (tape)
Solar Explorer, #26-2546 (tape and disk)
Village of Spellwell, #26-7340 (disk)
Well Of Knowledge, #26-7348 (disk)
Word Wizard, #26-2544 (tape)

There may also be one with #26-2545, since that seems to be missing in the 
above sequence.  Now it is possible they all aren't US versions, and it 
seems like the 26-73xx codes are disk-based for the most part.

-- Steve --



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr at gmail.com>
To: <ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK


> This may be the list:
> Maze Master
> Number Factory
> Word Wizard
> Shape Maker
>
> Neil
>
> --- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:
>
>> Do you recall the US titles? They may give a clue to the US
>> counterparts.
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From flexser at fiu.edu  Mon Aug 17 02:09:52 2009
From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:09:52 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC
	BOOK
In-Reply-To: <D0EF41319E594BE8965BDDD5A1B397BA@OstromPC>
References: <h67aed+kj0r@eGroups.com>
	<D0EF41319E594BE8965BDDD5A1B397BA@OstromPC>
Message-ID: <dbdeb2610908162309o4b8d65c7nf2cf9dd28523cec5@mail.gmail.com>

My guess would be that 26-2545 would be the tape version of Earthquake,
since it would be logical that the last two digits after the 26- would
indicate the program, if the first two indicate disk vs. tape.

Art

On 8/17/09, Steve Ostrom <smostrom7 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> In my collection I have :
>
> Earthquake, #26-7345 (disk)
> Maze Master, #26-2541 (tape)
> Number Factory, #26-2543 (tape)
> Shape Maker, #26-2542 (tape)
> Solar Explorer, #26-2546 (tape and disk)
> Village of Spellwell, #26-7340 (disk)
> Well Of Knowledge, #26-7348 (disk)
> Word Wizard, #26-2544 (tape)
>
> There may also be one with #26-2545, since that seems to be missing in the
> above sequence.  Now it is possible they all aren't US versions, and it
> seems like the 26-73xx codes are disk-based for the most part.
>
> -- Steve --
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr at gmail.com>
> To: <ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 4:47 PM
> Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
>
>
> This may be the list:
>> Maze Master
>> Number Factory
>> Word Wizard
>> Shape Maker
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> --- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:
>>
>> Do you recall the US titles? They may give a clue to the US
>>> counterparts.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au  Mon Aug 17 03:54:03 2009
From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating WimgTool
	for Dragon
Message-ID: <360628.61480.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Any chance someone in the Dragon and Coco community can update WimgTool to access and read Dragon VDK images. I would find this very handy when porting games between the 2 platforms. 
?I could then use the Export and Import features in Wingtool to get Binary or Basic files across the 2 Disk formats.
?I know Phil in the UK is a Dragon user. How about it mate. Want to give it a shot and Update Wingtool.

laters

Briza



      __________________________________________________________________________________
Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au


From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 04:19:02 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:19:02 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
 WimgTool for Dragon
In-Reply-To: <360628.61480.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <360628.61480.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A891276.9090805@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

brian palmer wrote:
> Any chance someone in the Dragon and Coco community can update
> WimgTool to access and read Dragon VDK images. I would find this very
> handy when porting games between the 2 platforms. I could then use
> the Export and Import features in Wingtool to get Binary or Basic
> files across the 2 Disk formats. I know Phil in the UK is a Dragon
> user. How about it mate. Want to give it a shot and Update Wingtool.

I might be prepared to give it a go, I did write a Delphi program a few 
years back for accessing VDK files, that could also deal with DragonDos 
format (which would be required).

Where can I get WimgTool, and what's it written in ?

Cheers.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Mon Aug 17 07:37:24 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:37:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
	<370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>

You have shown that HPUT is faster than HDRAW, no surprise. You probably 
won't find any method for significantly increasing the speed of HPUT but 
that is not really what you want. You would seem to want a method for 
speeding up the movement of the arrow cursor in Color Fog. Most of the 
code in the HPUT routine is there to handle generic placement of buffer 
content on the screen. The coordinates may be inverted, they may be out 
of bounds, the buffer coords may not match the HPUT coords, @ syntax 
might be used, the HSCREEN mode must be tested, etc. But cursor movement 
is a specific task and many of the HPUT tests could be bypassed as they 
are not needed.

You could try writing an ml routine that emulates HPUT but skips tests 
that are not needed for the Color Fog cursor routine. Theoretically you 
could remove a good chunk of code and still have a functioning HPUT. The 
problem would be where to put your own code in memory, load it with 
needed data via Color Fog, and interface it with the ROM code needed to 
access the graphics and buffer memory.


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Mon Aug 17 09:10:28 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:28 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <200908162011.30346.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908161415.37459.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<20090816194912.GA6405@tuxdriver.com>
	<200908162011.30346.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090817131028.GF2643@tuxdriver.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 08:11:30PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 16 August 2009, John W. Linville wrote:
> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 02:15:37PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> On Sunday 16 August 2009, James Dessart wrote:
> >> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net>
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made from
> >> >> the tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was done by
> >> >> Eddie Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have to be
> >> >> renamed because of the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor name, an
> >> >> unfortunate choice IMNSHO. Gives some crazy error messages. :(
> >> >
> >> >Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
> >> >CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.
> >>
> >> Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have
> >> called it ed since I don't have one of those original beasts installed.
> >
> >Use the source, Gene!  Change the name in CVS!
> >
> >John
> 
> I have the cvs checkout here, but where in the tree is it?  locate vi |grep 
> nitros9 isn't getting any hits on that.
> 
> Thanks John.

nitros9/level2/modules/vi.asm

The top of the file says "VI - VRN (VIRQ/RAM/Nil driver) device descriptor"

Is there a "vn" descriptor?  Maybe that is a good alternative?
Or "vq"?  Or...?

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug 17 09:34:17 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:34:17 -0400
Subject: [Coco] curses! Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090817131028.GF2643@tuxdriver.com>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org>
	<200908162011.30346.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<20090817131028.GF2643@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <200908170934.17211.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 17 August 2009, John W. Linville wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 08:11:30PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 16 August 2009, John W. Linville wrote:
>> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 02:15:37PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >> On Sunday 16 August 2009, James Dessart wrote:
>> >> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Gene
>> >> > Heskett<gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> We have one, and its the only editor I use on the coco.  Its made
>> >> >> from the tsedit disks by a patch that I think (I could be wrong) was
>> >> >> done by Eddie Kuhns.  Beware that with modern nitros9, it will have
>> >> >> to be renamed because of the usage of 'vi' as a device descriptor
>> >> >> name, an unfortunate choice IMNSHO. Gives some crazy error messages.
>> >> >> :(
>> >> >
>> >> >Maybe it could be named 'vic,' "vi for coco," or "vic-200" since the
>> >> >CoCo is obviously much better than a vic-20.
>> >>
>> >> Unforch, there is only a 2 char limit for the name.  I may even have
>> >> called it ed since I don't have one of those original beasts installed.
>> >
>> >Use the source, Gene!  Change the name in CVS!
>> >
>> >John
>>
>> I have the cvs checkout here, but where in the tree is it?  locate vi
>> |grep nitros9 isn't getting any hits on that.
>>
>> Thanks John.
>
>nitros9/level2/modules/vi.asm
>
>The top of the file says "VI - VRN (VIRQ/RAM/Nil driver) device descriptor"
>
>Is there a "vn" descriptor?  Maybe that is a good alternative?
>Or "vq"?  Or...?
>
>John

I didn't really want to putz with that, John, as I've NDI what else would be 
broken.  I was referring to the internal and external renaming of the patched 
tsedit called 'vi', into what I think is now 'ed' on  my machine.  Looking at 
it with dEd, there was only room for those 2 chars.  _If_ we had the src's, 
then of course we could name it anything that tickled our fancy. :)  In 
retrospect, perhaps 've' or even 'te' would have been a better name, and its 
not that hard to change it.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

You will remember something that you should not have forgotten.



From chester6809 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:53:00 2009
From: chester6809 at gmail.com (Chester Patterson)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:53:00 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses!  Sucess!
In-Reply-To: <20090816193038.GB10171@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090815232324.GA3486@virgo.sdc.org><4A8812C1.2020305@steubentech.com>
	<20090816193038.GB10171@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <3F8E05F6D2484DE88C977189F1BDCAA7@LTChester>

I find VED most useful and recommend it highly.
/Chester
Costa Rica

-----Original Message-----

Cloud-9 still sells VED.  If you've got the money, I've never heard
anything but good things about VED.

Willard



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 17 11:06:26 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
	<370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <374030.2648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:37:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)

You have shown that HPUT is faster than HDRAW, no surprise. You probably won't find any method for significantly increasing the speed of HPUT but that is not really what you want. You would seem to want a method for speeding up the movement of the arrow cursor in Color Fog. Most of the code in the HPUT routine is there to handle generic placement of buffer content on the screen. The coordinates may be inverted, they may be out of bounds, the buffer coords may not match the HPUT coords, @ syntax might be used, the HSCREEN mode must be tested, etc. But cursor movement is a specific task and many of the HPUT tests could be bypassed as they are not needed.

You could try writing an ml routine that emulates HPUT but skips tests that are not needed for the Color Fog cursor routine. Theoretically you could remove a good chunk of code and still have a functioning HPUT. The problem would be where to put your own code in memory, load it with needed data via Color Fog, and interface it with the ROM code needed to access the graphics and buffer memory.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


That makes sense. I did notice the testing routines to swap X or Y values if they were inverted. With Color Fog. I could overwrite that code, as I will already have done it, and possibly rewrite some of the optional methods that I'm not using. I'm sure that would be plenty of space for what I need to do... maybe enough to consolidate the other patch code.

Now I'm thinking about making a 512K only version with better speed and capability, and I'll probably drop Color from the moniker and go hi-res with it. With 512K in mind...

Is there any reason I couldn't copy the SECB ROM/RAM to a spare block, apply patches to the copy and then switch my patched block in to run FOG, then restore the unpatched (or less patched) block back upon exit? That would also benefit me by further reducing code overhead. 

What is the best (fastest?) way to copy one 8K block to another?

Bob



      


From bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 04:41:23 2009
From: bvsh at bvsh.karoo.co.uk (bv_sh)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:41:23 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h67aed+kj0r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h6b53j+9med@eGroups.com>


Hi,

Many thanks to all for responding so far:



Carrying out a search, I found the following  information: it would
appear there was some additional programs available from Radio Shack.

It would also appear that preservation of the tapes was being attempted.

Regards



Barry




Coco] Electronic Book software
James Hrubik jimhrubik at earthlink.net 
<mailto:coco%40maltedmedia.com?Subject=%5BCoco%5D%20Electronic%20Book%20\
software&In-Reply-To=5290018FEC21409BABE7BA5AF48E6379%40OstromPC>
Sat Jun 30 13:34:38 EDT 2007

    * Previous message: [Coco] Electronic Book software 
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/030565.html>
    * Next message: [Coco] Electronic Book software 
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/030568.html>
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ]
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/date.html#30566>  [
thread ]
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/thread.html#30566>  [
subject ]
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/subject.html#30566> 
[ author ]
<http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/coco/2007-June/author.html#30566>

Wow! I didn't know those other titles existed. All I have is Maze
Master (came with the book). Can these be transferred to disk
without any tweaking of the code?

On Jun 30, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Steve Ostrom wrote:

> Bob, in addition to your list, here are the other titles I have.
> There may have been at least one more because I notice a
> conspicuous gap at 26-2545, but I don't know what that one might
> be. I have only backed up Solar Explorer on my Cloud 9 Coco3
> harddrive, so I don't know if the others can be backed up, or if I
> have not taken the time to do so.
>
> -- Steve -- >

> Earthquake (Cat#26-7345)
> Solar Explorer (Cat#26-2546)
> Village Of Spellwell (Cat#26-7340)
> Well Of Knowledge (Cat#26-7348)


> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Devries"
> <devries.bob at gmail.com
<http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco> >
> To: <coco at maltedmedia.com
<http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco> >
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:22 AM
> Subject: [Coco] Electronic Book software

>> I'm currently "preserving" some software that was designed to go
>> with Tandy's Electronic Book (a device which plugged into the
>> joystick port).

>> I have currently:
>> Maze Master (Cat#26-2541)
>> Shape Maker (Cat#26-2542)
>> The Number Factory (Cat#26-2543)
>> Word Wizard (Cat#26-2544)

>> Does anyone know if there were any more?


>> These 4 are cassette based software, with files that need to be
>> relocated for Disk use :(
>> Regards, Bob Devries, Dalby, Queensland, Australia





From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 12:48:33 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:48:33 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: TRS-80 Color Computer ELECTRONIC BOOK
In-Reply-To: <h6b53j+9med@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h6c1l1+o2t1@eGroups.com>

I know I have one or two sets of all programs and cards. I did try scanning the cards a few years back in but wasn't happy with the results at that time. I may try again this winter when I have more time.

Neil

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, "bv_sh" <bvsh at ...> wrote:

> Carrying out a search, I found the following  information: it would
> appear there was some additional programs available from Radio Shack.
> 
> It would also appear that preservation of the tapes was being attempted.




From leonard23 at verizon.net  Mon Aug 17 15:08:41 2009
From: leonard23 at verizon.net (Leonard Miller)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908140218h2e789de6m2b5353ff9008d410@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908140218h2e789de6m2b5353ff9008d410@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601ca1f6e$22e2e840$68a8b8c0$@net>

Hi Aaron, I just went to maltedmedia to find the files you uploaded.  I
found 17 scans  there.  Are these the files you uploaded?  I'm asking
because sometimes people upload things but they don't show up for awhile and
I thought maybe these were scans done by other people.  I appreciate you
taking the time to do this.  Thank you!!

-Leonard


-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 05:19 AM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines

I've uploaded the first 12 issues to maltedmedia.  Compared to the
high res scans they are about 10% of the size, but just as readable if
not better.  The ClearScan does a nice job, especially if you want to
be able to zoom in and out without losing clarity on the fonts.  It
turns the letters into sort of quasi vector things instead of bitmaps.
  I've also tried to reduce the bleed through in the background and
other tweaks where they seemed to help.
I am working my way through year 2 now.
-Aaron


On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Jimenez<ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to read them, keep em coming.
>
> Ben
>
> --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM
>
> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
> drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April
85
> Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than
the
> original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to
pristine
> white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still very
> readable.
> Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
> historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
> space.
> Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted, might
> save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at
least
> all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
> -Aaron
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 15:57:04 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:57:04 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <000601ca1f6e$22e2e840$68a8b8c0$@net>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908140218h2e789de6m2b5353ff9008d410@mail.gmail.com>
	<000601ca1f6e$22e2e840$68a8b8c0$@net>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908171257k17004eb3nc4158c04bd421f39@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Leonard Miller<leonard23 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi Aaron, I just went to maltedmedia to find the files you uploaded. ?I
> found 17 scans ?there. ?Are these the files you uploaded? ?I'm asking
> because sometimes people upload things but they don't show up for awhile and
> I thought maybe these were scans done by other people. ?I appreciate you
> taking the time to do this. ?Thank you!!
>
> -Leonard
>

Hi,

It looks like the scans I made for 1981 are moved into the
MAGS0/RAINBOW/1981, and the scans for 1982 and what I've finished in
1983 are in /incoming.  I named them "Rainbow - Vol # No # - Mon
Year", except for april and june of 83, where the magazines seem to
stop using volume and no on the cover.  at some point the vol. no.
style returns, because issues from the 90s seem to use it, but i'm not
sure of exactly when.  if there is any preference for naming please
just let me know.

I will be unable to work on this more until next week, but i plan to
optimize the entire rainbow set at least.  The results seem to be very
nice.  For the months with the high res scans (300+ MB) at least a 10x
reduction in size but still very good readability.  The low quality
scans (<100mb) become about 3x smaller and actually much easier to
read.

-Aaron

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
> Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 05:19 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
>
> I've uploaded the first 12 issues to maltedmedia. ?Compared to the
> high res scans they are about 10% of the size, but just as readable if
> not better. ?The ClearScan does a nice job, especially if you want to
> be able to zoom in and out without losing clarity on the fonts. ?It
> turns the letters into sort of quasi vector things instead of bitmaps.
> ?I've also tried to reduce the bleed through in the background and
> other tweaks where they seemed to help.
> I am working my way through year 2 now.
> -Aaron
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Jimenez<ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to read them, keep em coming.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM
>>
>> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
>> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
>> drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April
> 85
>> Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than
> the
>> original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to
> pristine
>> white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still very
>> readable.
>> Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
>> historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
>> space.
>> Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted, might
>> save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at
> least
>> all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
>> -Aaron
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Mon Aug 17 18:18:58 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:18:58 -0400
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <374030.2648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>	<370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>
	<374030.2648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A89D752.4000904@worldnet.att.net>

theother_bob wrote:
> 

> 
> That makes sense. I did notice the testing routines to swap X or Y values if
 > they were inverted. With Color Fog. I could overwrite that code, as I 
will
 > already have done it, and possibly rewrite some of the optional 
methods that
 > I'm not using. I'm sure that would be plenty of space for what I need 
to do... maybe enough to consolidate the other patch code.
> 
> Now I'm thinking about making a 512K only version with better speed and
 > capability, and I'll probably drop Color from the moniker and go hi-res
 > with it. With 512K in mind...
> 
> Is there any reason I couldn't copy the SECB ROM/RAM to a spare block,
 > apply patches to the copy and then switch my patched block in to run FOG,
 > then restore the unpatched (or less patched) block back upon exit? That
 > would also benefit me by further reducing code overhead.

You could encounter problems with that method. SECB switches MMU blocks 
whenever there is a need to access the Hi-Res text or graphics 
screens/buffers. Unless you alter the MMU block numbers used by SECB, 
you would find your personal MMU blocks get switched out of memory.

Further, some programs may access the ROMs for routines because the 
programs over-write RAM memory to get more room. If that happened, again 
your patch might be switched out.

You need to keep the above in mind if you expect Color Fog to be 
compatible with all third party programs.

> 
> What is the best (fastest?) way to copy one 8K block to another?
 >
 > Bob

Since you don't require the presence of a 6309 CPU, the fastest method 
for transferring memory contents is to "stack-blast" from one MMU block 
to another.
By that I mean you set regS and regU to appropriate memory locations, 
pull D,X,Y from one stack and push D,X,Y onto the other stack.
Of course you must pre-save the original regS (and maybe regU) content 
and restore it after you are finished.


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug 17 19:42:24 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:42:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com>
	<C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <7B9B65BCDC8E41ACA65B974C30CF8A66@Dell3Gig>

Dean, I got 8 disks in the mail today.  Copying them to my HD now.  I'tt
turn them right around to you and start moving the missing Mags to Malted. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:19 AM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> 
> Dean, I'd take a stab at the Docs and manuals part myself.  
> If for no other reason than to get a chance to make copies 
> the DVDs for my own use.  If you sent me your copies, I'd 
> duplicate them for my use, return the originals, and upload 
> the missing docs. 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears 
> that there is 
> > still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs 
> that Glenside 
> > sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making it up to 
> > maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.
> > 
> > Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to Maltedmedia (be 
> > warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is  
> already up 
> > there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to take care of 
> > that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try 
> and sort out 
> > what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any takers for U/ L 
> > duty?
> > I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me to U/L that 
> > amount of data.
> > 
> > Dean
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From leonard23 at verizon.net  Mon Aug 17 20:37:50 2009
From: leonard23 at verizon.net (Leonard Miller)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:37:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908171257k17004eb3nc4158c04bd421f39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908112038n3182ee0fo504a57a2f208dc9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<725250.2014.qm@web52312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e44ad6640908140218h2e789de6m2b5353ff9008d410@mail.gmail.com>
	<000601ca1f6e$22e2e840$68a8b8c0$@net>
	<e44ad6640908171257k17004eb3nc4158c04bd421f39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701ca1f9c$1dda85a0$598f90e0$@net>

I just finished downloading 1981, and they are everything I'll ever need as
a reference.  My magazine collection is pretty tattered and torn at this
point and while the real thing is easier to use (imho) it's certainly nice
to have these in my archives.  Thank you so much for the work you've done.
It's much appreciated.

-Leonard


-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 03:57 PM
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Leonard Miller<leonard23 at verizon.net>
wrote:
> Hi Aaron, I just went to maltedmedia to find the files you uploaded. ?I
> found 17 scans ?there. ?Are these the files you uploaded? ?I'm asking
> because sometimes people upload things but they don't show up for awhile
and
> I thought maybe these were scans done by other people. ?I appreciate you
> taking the time to do this. ?Thank you!!
>
> -Leonard
>

Hi,

It looks like the scans I made for 1981 are moved into the
MAGS0/RAINBOW/1981, and the scans for 1982 and what I've finished in
1983 are in /incoming.  I named them "Rainbow - Vol # No # - Mon
Year", except for april and june of 83, where the magazines seem to
stop using volume and no on the cover.  at some point the vol. no.
style returns, because issues from the 90s seem to use it, but i'm not
sure of exactly when.  if there is any preference for naming please
just let me know.

I will be unable to work on this more until next week, but i plan to
optimize the entire rainbow set at least.  The results seem to be very
nice.  For the months with the high res scans (300+ MB) at least a 10x
reduction in size but still very good readability.  The low quality
scans (<100mb) become about 3x smaller and actually much easier to
read.

-Aaron

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com]
On
> Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 05:19 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
>
> I've uploaded the first 12 issues to maltedmedia. ?Compared to the
> high res scans they are about 10% of the size, but just as readable if
> not better. ?The ClearScan does a nice job, especially if you want to
> be able to zoom in and out without losing clarity on the fonts. ?It
> turns the letters into sort of quasi vector things instead of bitmaps.
> ?I've also tried to reduce the bleed through in the background and
> other tweaks where they seemed to help.
> I am working my way through year 2 now.
> -Aaron
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Jimenez<ben_jimenez at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to read them, keep em coming.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Coco] reducing size of scanned magazines
>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 8:38 PM
>>
>> I've been experimenting with the magazine scans on maltedmedia.? Playing
>> around with settings in Acrobat, I've managed to get the file sizes down
>> drastically without losing readability.? For example, the original April
> 85
>> Rainbow is 550MB. I have it down to 38MB and actually more readable than
> the
>> original scan by turning the time yellowed paper background back to
> pristine
>> white.? The Jan 85 issue of HotCoco went from 153MB? to 8MB and still
very
>> readable.
>> Obviously it's important to preserve the highest quality scans for
>> historical reasons, but for daily use/reading I'd much rather save the
>> space.
>> Would anyone else be interested in these?? I could upload to malted,
might
>> save a lot of downloading time for the next guy.? I plan to shrink at
> least
>> all the Rainbows and HotCoco's.
>> -Aaron
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From ed_s_429 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 17 19:51:05 2009
From: ed_s_429 at yahoo.com (Ed Siler)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:51:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] TRS-80 Color Computer Electronic Book
	[1 Attachment]
Message-ID: <30081.67706.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

If anyone's interested I have the Electronic Book with Maze Master,?Shape Maker,?Number Factory, and Word Wizard. No idea if the tape's are good, but my CoCo stuff's been?boxed up in a cool dry closet all these years, might have helped preserve it. 
Frankly, I'm not real sure these were ever even used - I was quite the CoCo nut, and if RS had it, I probably bought it. Need to start clearing some of it, meant to awhile back.

Back to the point, I've no idea what the thing's worth - how about $20 + shipping for?book and software?
?
Thanks, Ed

[Moderator note: Please reply directly to Ed Siler <ed_s_429 AT yahoo.com> if you are interested]


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 21:06:48 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:06:48 -0600
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <4A89D752.4000904@worldnet.att.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
	<370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>
	<374030.2648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A89D752.4000904@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908171806rd4a07cflde5a43a5de024755@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/17/09, Robert Gault wrote:
> theother_bob wrote:
>>
>>
>> What is the best (fastest?) way to copy one 8K block to another?
>>
>> Bob
>
> Since you don't require the presence of a 6309 CPU, the fastest method
> for transferring memory contents is to "stack-blast" from one MMU block
> to another.
> By that I mean you set regS and regU to appropriate memory locations,
> pull D,X,Y from one stack and push D,X,Y onto the other stack.
> Of course you must pre-save the original regS (and maybe regU) content
> and restore it after you are finished.
>
> --

Also, don't forget to mask interrupts before setting reg S.  If an
unmasked interrupt were to occur near the start or end of the block
move operation (depending on whether you use S for source or
destination), you would end up having the area preceding the source or
destination block getting stomped on.

Darren


From tlindner at macmess.org  Mon Aug 17 21:11:02 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:11:02 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
	WimgTool for Dragon
In-Reply-To: <4A891276.9090805@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1j4lubt.1onygfood63ggM%tlindner@macmess.org>

Phill Harvey-Smith <afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Where can I get WimgTool, and what's it written in ?

Wimgtool is the Window GUI port of imgtool and is part of the mess
package.

I see VDK support is already there:

$ ./imgtool listformats

Image formats supported by imgtool:
[. . .]
  coco_dmk_os9             CoCo DMK disk image (OS-9 format)
  coco_dmk_rsdos           CoCo DMK disk image (RS-DOS format)
  coco_jvc_os9             CoCo JVC disk image (OS-9 format)
  coco_jvc_rsdos           CoCo JVC disk image (RS-DOS format)
  coco_os9_os9             CoCo OS-9 disk image (OS-9 format)
  coco_vdk_os9             CoCo VDK disk image (OS-9 format)
  coco_vdk_rsdos           CoCo VDK disk image (RS-DOS format)
[. . .]

It looks like it suports OS-9 and RS-DOS file systems. Prolly not a lot
of VDKs with thoes file systems. It look like someone needs to add a
DragonDOS filesystem.

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au  Tue Aug 18 01:56:59 2009
From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
	WimgTool for Dragon
Message-ID: <230896.19246.qm@web36507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Phil.

Here is a URL link to the source code for Winimagetool. Hopefully you can update it. I'm hoping to port games between the 2 platforms. Let Dragon users play some of the games we coconuts have only got to play.

http://www.mess.org/files/mess0133s.zip


laters

Briza





      __________________________________________________________________________________
Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au


From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au  Tue Aug 18 10:45:09 2009
From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
	WimgTool for Dragon
Message-ID: <810959.84327.qm@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yeah I tried that coco rsdos.vdk format it will not read dragondos disks. As i'm pretty certain the Directory tracks are different. coco is track 17, while the dragon is on track 34 I think. been that long since i played around with a real dragon computer.

So Yes we need a Dragon VDK format implemented.

laters

Briza




      __________________________________________________________________________________
Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au


From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 11:14:00 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:14:00 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
 WimgTool for Dragon
In-Reply-To: <810959.84327.qm@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <810959.84327.qm@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090818161400.20741w3k1ljjhbvo@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Quoting brian palmer <tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au>:

> Yeah I tried that coco rsdos.vdk format it will not read dragondos  
> disks. As i'm pretty certain the Directory tracks are different.  
> coco is track 17, while the dragon is on track 34 I think. been that  
> long since i played around with a real dragon computer.

Tracks 16 and 20, plus the actual format of the directory is different.
Also Dragon Dos disks can be single or double sided, 40 or 80 tracks.

> So Yes we need a Dragon VDK format implemented.

Like I say if someone can point me at the source I may well have a go :)

As long as it isn't writen in COBOL !

Cheers.

Phill.

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 15:43:27 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Questions for Tim Linder
Message-ID: <235066.69826.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This message is aimed towards Tim Linder, though I do remember that Boisy Pitre also worked for Microware. Of all the names I've seen on this list, and in my memory associated with OS-9, you are the one name that is connected with the original OS-9 development team. I have a few questions, and I think that you *might* be able to answer some of them.

First, were you involved with the development of Basic09?
If so, do you remember anything about the structure of I-Code?

Since I was able to get my original source code to DCom back, I also have the original header file to Basic09 that Boisy Pitre sent me back when I was developing DCom. What he couldn't send me, unfortunately, was the entire source to Basic09. That would have helped me answer my questions back then. I have looked at the source code on SourceForge for the version of Basic09 that was updated to include Y2K mods, but it doesn't have the comments that would explain what is happening at any particular stage of the program. Anyway, I am still trying to understand the parts of I-Code that I didn't understand then. I have almost all of it decoded, as I did back then. But there are a few things in I-Code modules I never did understand completely. They are:

1. Module Header:
   First Execution Statement Offset Address
   I *think* that this is used to establish the point in the module where the first instruction statement occurs. It makes sense to me that, if you put DATA statements at the top of the program, the first instruction would occur immediately after those DATA statements. Since I always put my DATA statements at the bottom of my programs, this field always has the value $0000, which I am interpreting to mean the first byte following the module name. Am I understanding this correctly, or is there another meaning of this integer?

   Procedure Status
   This byte always has the value $80. It occurs immediately before the Module Name Length byte. What is this byte used for? Does it ever have a different value?

2. DSAT (B09 header calls this the Data Area)
   The last 3 bytes of this section are the total number of variables defined in the procedure (the first integer), and a byte that, with one exception, has always contained the value $03. In the one exception, it contained the value $04. I have never understood why it was different in that one instance, or why it is otherwise $03. What is this byte, and what does it mean?

   The DSAT is the shape data for all variables that are not "simple" BYTE, INTEGER, REAL or BOOLEAN variables. Included is the shape data for all record TYPEs. While this data can tell me how many fields there are in that record, the data (as stored) doesn't seem to be connected in any way with the variables DIMed to those records. In addition, the data itself is incomprehensible to me. As an example:

   This is the data for a record as it appears in the DSAT (formatting is mine):

   File     DSAT
   Offset   Offset Size ???  F1  F2   F3   F4   F5   F6  (F=field)
   -------- ------ ---- ---- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
   000004E7 00B0   002A CDCD 58 0160 0167 016F 0177 0181

   This is the data for the variable DIMed to this record type:

                   Data
   File     DSAT   Memory
   Offset   Offset Offset Size 
   -------- ------ ------ ----
   000004F6 00BF   B67C   002A

   The second integer of the variable definition shows that it is the size of the record, but that is all that it shows. If I have two records of the same size, but with different fields and shapes, I cannot directly associate either variable with either record. I am assuming that the shape data for the record may hold a clue as to how RunB (and Basic09) associates them. What I am unable to do is interpret the record shape data:

   002A            represents the size of the user defined type
   CDCD            represents ???      { what does this mean?  }
     58 58-5F =  8 represents aByte    { each of these numbers }
   0160 60-66 =  7 represents aInt     { represents one of the }
   0167 67-6E =  8 represents aReal    { variables defined in  }
   016F 6F-76 =  8 represents aBool    { the type.             }
   0177 77-80 = 10 represents aStrOne  { I don't know how to   }
   0181            represents aStr     { interpret them.       }

   The integer CDCD always has different values, and both it and the byte 58 may not be correctly ordered. For all I know, it could be:

   CD CD58

I need to understand this data if I am to come anywhere near being able to associate variables to the records they are DIMed to. So far, I can only connect field variables that were used with the variable they are associated with. Unused fields produce gaps in the data memory allocation. The record data has been useful for determining how many fields were defined in that record, but it doesn't help me connect the record with its variable.

I hope this all makes sense, and that you can help me. Otherwise, I may have to ask RadiSys if their OS-9 division still has the original source to Basic09 in their archives, and if they would allow me to have a copy of it. (Not likely, but an alternative just the same.)

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Wayne Campbell


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 17:22:40 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] One point of view
Message-ID: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have spent alot of time online since 1996, when I first made the move from BBSes (StGNet) and Information Networks (Delphi, Compuserve, AOL) to the Internet. I have dealt with at least a million emails, dozens of online chat rooms (irc was my home for about three years), moderated chat room channels and have founded chat rooms and forums.

I have learned alot about how messages are structured, and what (at least, to me) makes for the best, fastest and easiest forms that they take. I would like to share with all of you what I consider to be a well-constructed email, easy to read, fast in read-time, and reduction of overall size. As much as todays computers don't care how big the message is, when you are wading through 25K of message thread history to get to a one-line response, it matters.

I am not saying that anyone MUST adhere to what I am proposing, I am just giving my point of view. If you agree, you agree. If you don't, you don't.

Message Order:

An email message should be ordered. Its order determines how easily it is read, and how quickly you can get through it and on to the next. When you see traffic from a list like this, you can have 50 messages to read by the time you check your email again.

The Order:

New topic or response to previous post

This is where you type a new message, and this is where you type a response to a previous message. By having the response at the top of the message, it gets read FIRST. When it's a one-liner, like "I agree", you know you can move on immediately, unless you want to know more about the topic and read through the history.

If you want or need to quote the text you are replying to, copy the RELEVANT portion of the history, and paste it in this section. The usual format is:

Quoted text
Response text

You can repeat that format as many times as you need to quote responses to differing parts of the previous post. Try to keep the quoted text down to a maximum of two lines. You don't have to quote an entire paragraph to create a pointer to the part you are responding to. If the reader wants to read more, they can search for that text and then read the whole thing.

Quotes can be as short as "replaced HPUT with HGET", and that is enough to know that the response involves programming the CoCo. I can search for that in the history below the response to read the entire message if I want to, or skip it if I don't.

If response, body of message history

This is where the topic history should be. If there's something in the topic you want or need to read more about, you can scroll down until you find it. By putting the history here, you reduce the amount of time it takes to get through a message.

In addition, there are times when a topic history can become too long. My recommendation is, if the history reaches 25K:

1 leave the LAST response in the history section of the message
2 archive the remaining part in a zip file
3 attach the zip file to the message

The last response is most likely what is being replied to. This process can be repeated each time the text in the message reaches 25K. The attachment will grow in size as each segment of the history gets added, but will be smaller than the message would be with the entire content added.

I believe this list supports attachments, as I see them in signature files continually from this list.


      


From tlindner at macmess.org  Tue Aug 18 17:35:34 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:35:34 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Questions for Tim Linder
In-Reply-To: <235066.69826.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1j4nf47.1eq9ir11c2hgqaM%tlindner@macmess.org>

Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:

> First, were you involved with the development of Basic09?

Nope. I was not involved with the development of Basic09. I've never
worked for Microware. During that era I was in elementry school.

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From lost at l-w.ca  Tue Aug 18 17:54:56 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:54:56 -0600
Subject: [Coco] One point of view
In-Reply-To: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
<snip>
> If response, body of message history

(Note: I am writing this to provide a counterpoint, not to be
argumentative.)

(Disclaimer: this message represents my opinions which are not
necessarily the opinions of the list operator or anyone else on the planet.)

Your message format suggestion is quite reasonable, especially for
private correspondence where there may not be an archive of any sort. In
fact, I have found such methodology useful in business correspondence.

However, in the case of mailing lists or news groups where archives do
exist, I must respectfully disagree with the idea of maintaining the
entire history of a discussion indefinitely. That is plain wasteful.

Wearing my hat as a network operator, I am horrified by such a
suggestion directed at a mailling list. It may not sound like much, but
say you have an average of 20K of message history flying around attached
to every message sent to the list. If the list has 500 members, that
gives an average 10MB wasted traffic for every message to the list.
Still doesn't sound like much, but if a list has, say, 20 messages a
day, that turns into 200MB wasted of traffic daily. Assume a list
hosting operation will usually be hosting hundreds if not thousands of
lists, if everyone followed the "maintain the history" idea, the amount
of waste traffic becomes non-trivial. To further exacerbate the problem,
this waste traffic also turns into wasted storage for lists that are
archived.

This list, for instance, *does* have an archive. It can be found by
following the footer at the bottom of *every* message. Someone who
really must see the history of the discussion can view the archives.
Thus it is pointless to include more than the actual points being
replied to and, *at most*, the entire message being replied to if it is
not long. The only reason for including the most recent message would be
for context.

Consider that, in many instances, the operators of lists pay by the
gigabyte (or even megabyte) for storage space for archives. They may
even pay by the gigabyte (or even megabyte) for bandwidth. If I were a
list operator under such circumstances, I would also be miffed by any
suggestion (or actual behaviour) which generates any noticeable volume
of excess traffic.

Consider also the poor folks reading messages on a potentially limited
device, say a PDA or what have you, where their wireless providers
charge assinine rates for data traffic? If they want to read a message,
they have no option to avoid downloading the extra 20K or so of history
which may cost them a non-trivial amount when compounded over multiple
messages. Remember, you know nothing about the recipients of a message
sent in a public forum so you cannot assume that what is painless to
receive for you is painless to receive for your recipients.

Note that I have specifically stepped back from the issue of top post
vs. bottom post as it makes little difference to my point and has been
hashed out in opposing monologues repeatedly.

-- 
William Astle


From tlindner at macmess.org  Tue Aug 18 21:12:23 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:12:23 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about updating
	WimgTool for Dragon
In-Reply-To: <20090818161400.20741w3k1ljjhbvo@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1j4np7u.udpl0o7squsM%tlindner@macmess.org>

<afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Like I say if someone can point me at the source I may well have a go :)

It's part of the MESS distribution.

http://www.mess.org/

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 22:26:41 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:26:41 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Hi Fellow Coco and Dragon users. How about
 updating	WimgTool for Dragon
In-Reply-To: <1j4np7u.udpl0o7squsM%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j4np7u.udpl0o7squsM%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <4A8B62E1.1000203@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

tim lindner wrote:
> <afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Like I say if someone can point me at the source I may well have a go :)
> 
> It's part of the MESS distribution.
> 
> http://www.mess.org/

Ahh that, cool will try and take a look in the near future.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 22:58:15 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Questions for Tim Linder
In-Reply-To: <1j4nf47.1eq9ir11c2hgqaM%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j4nf47.1eq9ir11c2hgqaM%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <959577.85639.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well, I feel entirely foolish now. LOL
If it wasn't you, then I wonder who it was?
I am at a loss. :(

Wayne




________________________________
From: tim lindner <tlindner at macmess.org>
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:35:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Questions for Tim Linder

Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:

> First, were you involved with the development of Basic09?

Nope. I was not involved with the development of Basic09. I've never
worked for Microware. During that era I was in elementry school.

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com  Tue Aug 18 23:06:13 2009
From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:06:13 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CGP-220  COCO PRINTER Ink
Message-ID: <20090818.220613.5144.0.Johnchasteen.2@juno.com>

Hello Coco Fans

I just discovered a CGP-220 Printer in one of my storage boxes.

Has anyone found a source to get ink?

It would be nice to get this printer working.

All suggestions are welcome

John
____________________________________________________________
Win the battle of the bulge with great liposuction solutions. Click now!
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From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 12:39:33 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] One point of view
In-Reply-To: <4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

William Astle wrote:>I must respectfully disagree with the idea of maintaining the entire history of a discussion indefinitely. That is plain wasteful.

Looking at it from your perspective, I can agree that attaching the history is wasteful. However, I am looking at it from the reality of what is sent through a list like this one. Practically every message has the entire thread included in the post, whether it's all relevant to the current response or not. My thought is, which is more wasteful: 20K worth of message history in the body of the message, or 5K worth of message text and 5K worth of compressed text in a zip file that's attached?

I did a little test. I took a text file that is 15,467 bytes in size, and I zipped it up in a zip file. The resulting size of the .zip file is 5,598 bytes. I would think that 10K is less than 20K no matter how you slice it. And since the histories *are going to be included* in the message posts *regardless of whether or not anyone likes it or agrees with it*, then it should be dealt with in a way that reduces the size, and still allows the users to include the history.

The alternative is to prohibit message histories, except for short quotes for quoted replies.

William Astle wrote:>This list, for instance, *does* have an archive. It can be found by following the footer at the bottom of *every* message.

Do you mean this?
--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

I have a few questions for everyone on this list.
How often do you *really* go to the archive to read a message thread history?
How often do you just read the attached history instead?
How often do you feel like you're wasting time scrolling through a long message history just to read a one line response?

And yet, we still add long histories, regardless of their length, and justify it by talking about wasting space with an archive file that, in reality, would make the bandwidth smaller, not larger. If we could get all thread histories to be archived and not allow adding it to the message text, except in small quotes, we would reduce the bandwidth as much as it is possible to do. But we are not going to see this.

First, the list operator is not going to spend the time necessary to check each and every post for length of content.

Second, the idea is that longer posts are better, if they include content. Since most content is less than 10 lines, long posts would never occur, except in a case like this where an actual discussion ensues.

Third, people are people. They are mostly predictable, and are creatures of habit. And we all choose the easiest path to achieve an end. In terms of posting to a list, it's reply and send. Do only what is required to "clean it up" before sending, which is mostly not doing anything.

I know that different email programs handle things differently when it comes to quoting. Yahoo, which is the email program that I use, quotes the entire message when I click the reply button. It also places the quote below the current insertion point. I can delete the entire history if I want to, but I have learned through corresponding with others to work on a project, or to gain information about a program, or for anything that could be considered collaborative, that deleting the entire history works against the effort. Therefore, keeping the history "close" is pretty much a requirement. It's all about what makes things easier and more convenient for the user.

William Astle wrote:>If they want to read a message, they have no option to avoid downloading the extra 20K or so of history which may cost them a non-trivial amount when compounded over multiple messages.

Again, which is worse? Having to download a 20K post, or downloading a 5K post with a 5K attachment? And I do believe that most current devices allow the user to decide whether or not they wish to download an attached file.

Wayne


      


From lost at l-w.ca  Wed Aug 19 13:15:21 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:15:21 -0600
Subject: [Coco] One point of view
In-Reply-To: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8C3329.603@l-w.ca>

As I said in my original message, I only reply in the interest of
reasoned debate. However, this is quite off topic for the list so I will
try to refrain from further on-list replies.

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> Looking at it from your perspective, I can agree that attaching the history is wasteful. However, I am looking at it from the reality of what is sent through a list like this one. Practically every message has the entire thread included in the post, whether it's all relevant to the current response or not. My thought is, which is more wasteful: 20K worth of message history in the body of the message, or 5K worth of message text and 5K worth of compressed text in a zip file that's attached?

Oh, I agree. If the history is going to be present, compressing it is a
better option than not compressing it. However, from a network traffic
perspective, no history (or very small history) is better yet.

Realistically, it probably makes very little difference for a low
traffic list like this one. In fact, in a low traffic scenario, a larger
history makes some sense in the same way I conceded that in non-archived
scenarios, it makes some sense to carry around a large history.

> I have a few questions for everyone on this list.
> How often do you *really* go to the archive to read a message thread history?
> How often do you just read the attached history instead?
> How often do you feel like you're wasting time scrolling through a long message history just to read a one line response?

Of course a person is going to look at the attached history rather than
look in an archive. But if the history is not present, the archive is an
option. And the real question is how often someone following a thread
even needs the history to formulate a reply or get the context.

Additionally, I don't for a minute believe that the general population
of email users is going to change its behaviour to match what I think is
logical or desirable. Wearing my network operator hat, I'll continue
charging users for the bandwidth they consume and get on with life, even
if that life is complicated by having to provision more bandwidth than I
strictly ought to need.

I also firmly believe that it is the list operator's domain to determine
what is acceptable on his lists. If he chooses to be permissive or
draconian about some policy or other (whether related to thread
histories or otherwise), that is his choice. Further, it is my choice to
stay on the list and accept the polices or leave the list. And I'm not
petulant enough to pack up my toys and go home just because someone
fails to trim the history from a message.

Indeed, a great many good arguments can be made on either side of the
issue, quite aside from the bandwidth concerns I raised (which are much
more of an issue for very large volume lists like the linux-kernel
list), most of which are non-technical. (If the history is not present,
it can't be accidentally leaked to someone who should see it, for
instance. On the flip side, having the history present can simplify
bringing a new person into the discussion.)

I will close off with an observation:

Message formatting in public forums (lists, etc.) is one of those
perennial religious wars that rage on the Internet. It's right up there
with the "One True Brace Style" in C or the Emacs vs. Vi editor war. It
can be fun to debate it, and it can get heated, but it's best to keep
the debates (flame wars?) in the proper forum.

Basically I'm saying that Wayne and I will obviously not agree on this
particular issue - we have different priorities. But I'm cool with that.
Wouldn't life be boring if everyone agreed on everything?

-- 
William Astle


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Aug 19 13:33:50 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:33:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 09:39:33AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
 
> I did a little test. I took a text file that is 15,467 bytes in size, and I zipped it up in a zip file. The resulting size of the .zip file is 5,598 bytes. I would think that 10K is less than 20K no matter how you slice it. And since the histories *are going to be included* in the message posts *regardless of whether or not anyone likes it or agrees with it*, then it should be dealt with in a way that reduces the size, and still allows the users to include the history.

If people can't be bothered to elide the unneeded history from
their replies, do you really think that you can train them to pack
the history into a zip file and attach it?  I sincerely doubt it.
Afterall, even self-proclaimed experts on email communication can't
be bothered to break their lines at a reasonable width... :-)

Random thoughts...

    A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
    Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?   

    A: The lost context.
    Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

    A: Yes.
    Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?

Now, was there an actual problem that prompted this off-topic thread?

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:02:20 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:02:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] One point of view
In-Reply-To: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908191102s39aefd8ej598a46fcf968e7e@mail.gmail.com>

> I have learned alot about how messages are structured, and what (at least, to me) makes for the best, fastest and easiest forms that they take. I would like to share with all of you what I consider to be a well-constructed email, easy to read, fast in read-time, and reduction of overall size. As much as todays computers don't care how big the message is, when you are wading through 25K of message thread history to get to a one-line response, it matters.
>
> I am not saying that anyone MUST adhere to what I am proposing, I am just giving my point of view. If you agree, you agree. If you don't, you don't.
>

You may wish to become familiar with RFC 1855.  I believe it is the
closest thing to an accepted, official standard for such things.

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

Personally, I not only prefer following standards wherever possible,
but also tend to agree with the recommendations made in this RFC.
Adhering to these rules is strongly "encouraged" on a couple other
mailing lists I participate in, and they work well.

-Aaron


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 15:41:01 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>






________________________________
From: John W. Linville <linville at tuxdriver.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:33:50 AM
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 09:39:33AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I did a little test. I took a text file that is 15,467 bytes in size, and I zipped it up in a zip file. The resulting size of the .zip file is 5,598 bytes. I would think that 10K is less than 20K no matter how you slice it. And since the histories *are going to be included* in the message posts *regardless of whether or not anyone likes it or agrees with it*, then it should be dealt with in a way that reduces the size, and still allows the users to include the history.

If people can't be bothered to elide the unneeded history from
their replies, do you really think that you can train them to pack
the history into a zip file and attach it?  I sincerely doubt it.
Afterall, even self-proclaimed experts on email communication can't
be bothered to break their lines at a reasonable width... :-)

Random thoughts...

    A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
    Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  

    A: The lost context.
    Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

    A: Yes.
    Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?

Now, was there an actual problem that prompted this off-topic thread?

John
-- 
John W. Linville        Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com            might be all we have.  Be ready.

--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

Does this answer your question?



      


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Aug 19 15:56:01 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:56:01 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:41:01PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
>

Snip -- you quoted my entire previous message???

> Now, was there an actual problem that prompted this off-topic thread?
> 
> John
> -- 
> John W. Linville        Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com            might be all we have.  Be ready.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> Does this answer your question?

Ummm...no...?

-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 16:06:13 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

John W, Linville wrote:> Snip -- you quoted my entire previous message???

Yes, because *that* is the problem.Since I joined this list I have seen times when I had over 20 new messages from this list. Most of them were just like my response to you. Quote the entire message, add 1 or 2 response lines at the *bottom* of the reply.

I don't mind reading the responses, but I tire of wading through lengthy quoted text just to get to a one or two line response.

Does this illustrate the "problem" enough?


      


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Wed Aug 19 16:13:33 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:13:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 01:06:13PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:
> John W, Linville wrote:> Snip -- you quoted my entire previous message???
> 
> Yes, because *that* is the problem.Since I joined this list I have seen times when I had over 20 new messages from this list. Most of them were just like my response to you. Quote the entire message, add 1 or 2 response lines at the *bottom* of the reply.
> 
> I don't mind reading the responses, but I tire of wading through lengthy quoted text just to get to a one or two line response.
> 
> Does this illustrate the "problem" enough?

Oh, it definitely does.  I'm just not sure we agree on what it
is... :-)

Perhaps we can end this off-topic thread now?  Please?

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 16:39:26 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

John W. Linville wrote:> Perhaps we can end this off-topic thread now?  Please?


Yes, but I feel I must make one last statement.

>  A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
>   Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

>   A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>   Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  

This is not entirely true. Yes, we read from top to bottom and left to right. Some countries read from right to left, top to bottom, and others top to bottom, right to left. The order in which we read is immaterial.

Quoted text in replies is reference material. Do we put reference material at the front of a book, just because we read from  left to right, top to bottom? No. Reference material goes at the end of the book.

Wayne



      


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 17:09:36 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:09:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Way off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <4A8C6A10.9080500@gmail.com>

John W. Linville wrote:
> Perhaps we can end this off-topic thread now?  Please?
>   

For crying out loud, yes, por favor, end it now! But first, allow me to 
add my two cents... :)

I agree with John in that it is highly improbable that the people on 
this list are going to zip the history of the messages they are replying 
to. Mind you, some folks don't even seem to seize the concept of 
replying to a message; they start new a thread in response to someone 
else's message.

Now, as an answer to the original poster: If you use the proper software 
(I use Thunderbird), you can have it filter your incoming messages, 
place the CoCoList ones in a dedicated folder and display this folder as 
threads, so you never need to go to the web archive when you forgot what 
a discussion is all about. This is how I read the messages on this list 
and, frankly, I think the issue of the "message history" is a none problem.

Christian



From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Wed Aug 19 17:11:15 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:11:15 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8C6A73.1040100@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
> John W. Linville wrote:> Perhaps we can end this off-topic thread
> now?  Please?
> 
> Yes, but I feel I must make one last statement.
> 
>> A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right. Q: Why should
>> I start my reply below the quoted text?
> 
>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read
>> text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> 
> Quoted text in replies is reference material. Do we put reference
> material at the front of a book, just because we read from  left to
> right, top to bottom? No. Reference material goes at the end of the
> book.

But in a book it is printed once and there is generally no 'reply', I 
think the book analogy is not really applicable here as a mailing list 
is more of a conversation which should be causially obvious, i.e. it 
should be abvious who said what and in what order.

Is's one of the reasons whi I will generally quote under the paragraph I 
am replying to rather than put my replies to everything at the end (or 
the beginning), ok so this email is a bad example, but only really 
replying to one point....

So you would have :

 > Question 1
Answer 1

 > Question 2
Answer 2

Trimming is also important something I see time and time again is 
someone quoting an entire long post, then giving a one line answer to
the last sentence of the post....

Cheers.

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 17:30:28 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/

The C-One - the world's first reconfigurable computer. There's been a lot of talk over the last couple decades about building a Coco 4. Lots of talk, little to no action. So why not start with the C-One and create a "Coco 4" module for it? Much of the work has already been done.


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 19 17:48:44 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:48:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca><527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com><934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com><658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com><103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1EED6E6309E6463682C2518DF2C18956@Dell3Gig>

90% of the work has already been done in the Coco 3 emulators.  

Remember what a Coco 4 is SUPPOSED to be.  A direct upgrade of the Coco 3.

What did we want that upgrade to have?  More memory, higher resolution
graphics, full serial/parallel ports, faster speed.

Well, the Coco 3 emulators already give you faster speed and more memory.
Of course, the DECB side needs some work which really has to be handled in
the "chips" governing memory access and patches to the basic roms.  But the
memory is there.  So the Coco 4 should be a matter of taking the emulator
code and giving it "hooks" into the PCs serial/parallel/USB/Bluetooth ports,
and giving it VGA style (or better) graphics.

Hitachi took the 6809 and made it better.  A made up (software only) chip
could do the same to the 6309.  Add more registers and the op codes to allow
tru 16/32 bit operations WITHOUT breaking the 8/16 bit stuff we already
have.  Done with forethought, the Coco4 could run all Coco 3 software out of
the box.

Now in the hardware world, it makes no sence to take an 8-bit core and add
registers and such to bootstrap it into a 32 bit chip, because silicon real
estate is expensive.  In software its no big deal, relatively speaking.

What would you call this mystical chip?  I'd call it the 2012 Processor<g>.
It development started today, that's about when I'd expect to be able to use
it<g>.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cousert
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:30 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
> 
> http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/
> 
> The C-One - the world's first reconfigurable computer. 
> There's been a lot of talk over the last couple decades about 
> building a Coco 4. Lots of talk, little to no action. So why 
> not start with the C-One and create a "Coco 4" module for it? 
> Much of the work has already been done.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 19 17:51:19 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:51:19 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <7B9B65BCDC8E41ACA65B974C30CF8A66@Dell3Gig>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com><C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig>
	<7B9B65BCDC8E41ACA65B974C30CF8A66@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <03A55B905B7741D69445676BD8DDCB61@Dell3Gig>

I've uploaded all the Coco Clipboard Magazine PDFs to the INCOMING folder on
Malted.  I've also started putting the 1984 PDF issues of Color Computer
Magazine there as well, since they weren't there before.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> 
> Dean, I got 8 disks in the mail today.  Copying them to my HD 
> now.  I'tt turn them right around to you and start moving the 
> missing Mags to Malted. 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:19 AM
> > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > 
> > Dean, I'd take a stab at the Docs and manuals part myself.  
> > If for no other reason than to get a chance to make copies the DVDs 
> > for my own use.  If you sent me your copies, I'd duplicate 
> them for my 
> > use, return the originals, and upload the missing docs.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
> > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears
> > that there is
> > > still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs
> > that Glenside
> > > sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making 
> it up to 
> > > maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.
> > > 
> > > Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to 
> Maltedmedia (be 
> > > warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is
> > already up
> > > there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to 
> take care of 
> > > that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try
> > and sort out
> > > what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any 
> takers for U/ L 
> > > duty?
> > > I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me to U/L that 
> > > amount of data.
> > > 
> > > Dean
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Coco mailing list
> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 20:38:20 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] How much did I know?
Message-ID: <578241.53371.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

As I work at typing in the source to DCom 3.5, and re-creating the source to DCom 3.1, I am faced with the realization of just how little I knew back then. DCom is too large, does everything the hard way, and never did realize my ultimate goals for the program.

Before I got the original source code back, I started working on a "new version", just to be able to successfully decode the 3.1 version. I named the program "unpack", because I finally realized that I should try to work with the terms the original programmers of Basic09 used. Since procedures are "packed" into I-Code modules, it makes sense that the reverse would be "unpacking" the I-Code to retrieve the source code.

So far, unpack does everything DCom does, with the exceptions that I haven't finished with the variable procedure yet (but mostly done), have yet to deal with the line number references and the called subroutine names, and the output is not parsed to re-order the instructions into their final form. Basically, it is DCom, DCP1, DCP2, and most of DCP3, all in one program made up of 4 procedures. When it's done, it may have 6 or 7 procedures. What there is so far loads and runs *in* Basic09 with 20K of workspace memory. Compare that with DCom, which has to be packed to even run, because the parts are too large to fit into the workspace, even at 40K.

I was brand new to programming back then, and I was trying to learn OS-9, Basic09 programming, programming in general, *and* trying to decode I-Code, all at the same time. For what it's worth, I think I accomplished alot, but that doesn't make up for the fact that DCom is a kludge. It's actually amazing to me that I was able to get DCom to work at all.

Because unpack is coming along so well, I am planning to continue its development, and create the DCom I intended to create to begin with. Unpack will be the workhorse that does the work of decoding the I-Code. DCom, which will be called DCom4, will be the user interface I wanted to create to begin with. It will allow the user to rename variables, correct errors in the TYPE statements, renumber line numbers, and save the source file.

Generic labels are necessary, when you have no idea what the variables were named in the original program, but they are difficult to associate to the function of the code. Having to load the reconstructed source into Basic09 and then rename all the variables is, IMO, an unnecessary step. I always wanted to be able to handle that as a function of DCom. Maybe now I can make it so.

Wayne



      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Aug 19 20:41:19 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:41:19 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses status
Message-ID: <20090820004119.GA14909@virgo.sdc.org>

It works, for suitably small values of works. ;-)

After various hacks and some interesting crashes, what there is,
works.  But it's fragile. :-(

The big problem, is that this is a "subset" of real CURSES.  Under
real curses, a function like addc(a) is actually a macro, calling
waddc(stdscr,a).  stdscr is a WINDOW *, pointing at the "standard
screen" a window that's the size of the terminal's screen.

But in this "subset", stdscr is #define 0, and addc() is a seperate
function from waddc().  The problem with this, besides near-duplicate
code (the starting window needs to keep most of the data of a proper
WINDOW struct, rather it's stored in one or not), is that it wasn't
carried all the way through.  A lot of the functions take a WINDOW *
argument, and not all of them check to make sure the pointer isn't
NULL.

So, if your program calls a function with stdscr as an argument, it
might work, or it might crash horribly, depending on which function
got called!

I suppose the quick and dirty solution is to continue the style used
in the code now (if(win){use win->foo} else {use globals}) but it would
be cleaner and smaller to re-write the library do to things
correctly. 

So, that's where curses is right now.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Aug 19 20:46:51 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:46:51 -0600
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?
Message-ID: <20090820004650.GB14909@virgo.sdc.org>

OK, one other thing the subset curses doesn't have is proper raw mode,
that is, character-by-character input, with NO kernel processing on
the input stream, so that, if the user types ^C, all that happens is
that you see an ASCII 0x03 in your input.

But, according to the C manual, I can get this mode by setting a flag
in the FILE struct to be _RBF.  Is that right?  Does this actually
work?

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Wed Aug 19 20:53:39 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:53:39 -0600
Subject: [Coco] ym6 stuff
Message-ID: <20090820005339.GA17229@virgo.sdc.org>

I like the ym6reader so much I went looking for other files for it to
play. :-)

Anyway, I found this *huge* archive of sound files, I forget where,
but it had some ym6 files, but not all of them worked with ym6reader,
but the ones that did are here:
http://www.sdc.org/~goosey/os9/ym6files.lzh

(I forogot if they've already been deleaved or not...)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 19 21:22:32 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:22:32 -0400
Subject: [Coco] How much did I know?
In-Reply-To: <578241.53371.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <578241.53371.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1A920BA9C78A4CB5B30384EC7789C3C7@Dell3Gig>

Good job Wayne.  I remember when I bought Version 1 and ran it, I had many
of the same thoughts.  Plus, it didn't work to well<g>.  I remember calling
you long distance to try to get it to work.  That's when Rodney and I got
involved.  Actually I voluntered to try to make it work better, and then
dragged Rodney into it, since he was way smarter<g>.  

I recently got a look at the Version 3 docs for DCOM, and I noticed that you
credited Rodney and I with helping you.  I appreciated that, and I'm sure
Rodney does too. I never actually saw the updated docs, since being on the
development team, I didn't have to buy version 3.  It was kinda cool seeing
my name in there, almost like one of the Big Boys of the Coco World.     

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:38 PM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: [Coco] How much did I know?
> 
> As I work at typing in the source to DCom 3.5, and 
> re-creating the source to DCom 3.1, I am faced with the 
> realization of just how little I knew back then. DCom is too 
> large, does everything the hard way, and never did realize my 
> ultimate goals for the program.
> 
> Before I got the original source code back, I started working 
> on a "new version", just to be able to successfully decode 
> the 3.1 version. I named the program "unpack", because I 
> finally realized that I should try to work with the terms the 
> original programmers of Basic09 used. Since procedures are 
> "packed" into I-Code modules, it makes sense that the reverse 
> would be "unpacking" the I-Code to retrieve the source code.
> 
> So far, unpack does everything DCom does, with the exceptions 
> that I haven't finished with the variable procedure yet (but 
> mostly done), have yet to deal with the line number 
> references and the called subroutine names, and the output is 
> not parsed to re-order the instructions into their final 
> form. Basically, it is DCom, DCP1, DCP2, and most of DCP3, 
> all in one program made up of 4 procedures. When it's done, 
> it may have 6 or 7 procedures. What there is so far loads and 
> runs *in* Basic09 with 20K of workspace memory. Compare that 
> with DCom, which has to be packed to even run, because the 
> parts are too large to fit into the workspace, even at 40K.
> 
> I was brand new to programming back then, and I was trying to 
> learn OS-9, Basic09 programming, programming in general, 
> *and* trying to decode I-Code, all at the same time. For what 
> it's worth, I think I accomplished alot, but that doesn't 
> make up for the fact that DCom is a kludge. It's actually 
> amazing to me that I was able to get DCom to work at all.
> 
> Because unpack is coming along so well, I am planning to 
> continue its development, and create the DCom I intended to 
> create to begin with. Unpack will be the workhorse that does 
> the work of decoding the I-Code. DCom, which will be called 
> DCom4, will be the user interface I wanted to create to begin 
> with. It will allow the user to rename variables, correct 
> errors in the TYPE statements, renumber line numbers, and 
> save the source file.
> 
> Generic labels are necessary, when you have no idea what the 
> variables were named in the original program, but they are 
> difficult to associate to the function of the code. Having to 
> load the reconstructed source into Basic09 and then rename 
> all the variables is, IMO, an unnecessary step. I always 
> wanted to be able to handle that as a function of DCom. Maybe 
> now I can make it so.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 19 21:26:26 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:26:26 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <03A55B905B7741D69445676BD8DDCB61@Dell3Gig>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com><C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig><7B9B65BCDC8E41ACA65B974C30CF8A66@Dell3Gig>
	<03A55B905B7741D69445676BD8DDCB61@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <3E54DE2E5FCD4B31A1231EF53BC4FB92@Dell3Gig>

I'm re-uploading the Jan 84 issue of Color Computer Magazine to Malteds
"INCOMING" folder, since the 1st time failed for some reason.  Whoever is in
charge of moving those around later, the larger version is the correct one.
I tried to take the bad copy out, but I don't have the permissions for that.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:51 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> 
> I've uploaded all the Coco Clipboard Magazine PDFs to the 
> INCOMING folder on Malted.  I've also started putting the 
> 1984 PDF issues of Color Computer Magazine there as well, 
> since they weren't there before.  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:42 PM
> > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > 
> > Dean, I got 8 disks in the mail today.  Copying them to my HD now.  
> > I'tt turn them right around to you and start moving the 
> missing Mags 
> > to Malted.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:19 AM
> > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > 
> > > Dean, I'd take a stab at the Docs and manuals part myself.  
> > > If for no other reason than to get a chance to make 
> copies the DVDs 
> > > for my own use.  If you sent me your copies, I'd duplicate
> > them for my
> > > use, return the originals, and upload the missing docs.
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> > > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
> > > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > > > Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears
> > > that there is
> > > > still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs
> > > that Glenside
> > > > sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making
> > it up to
> > > > maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to
> > Maltedmedia (be
> > > > warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is
> > > already up
> > > > there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to
> > take care of
> > > > that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try
> > > and sort out
> > > > what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any
> > takers for U/ L
> > > > duty?
> > > > I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me 
> to U/L that 
> > > > amount of data.
> > > > 
> > > > Dean
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Coco mailing list
> > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Coco mailing list
> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 19 22:17:39 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:17:39 -0400
Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
In-Reply-To: <3E54DE2E5FCD4B31A1231EF53BC4FB92@Dell3Gig>
References: <294905C4-B066-4BB3-97B9-C3B347D0F0C2@nationsdial.com><C66BDC8DAEA4415C8F07628D2EAE5A8E@Dell3Gig><7B9B65BCDC8E41ACA65B974C30CF8A66@Dell3Gig><03A55B905B7741D69445676BD8DDCB61@Dell3Gig>
	<3E54DE2E5FCD4B31A1231EF53BC4FB92@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <3778FA220AE544CCB7C229188B02C9E8@Dell3Gig>

While inputting issues of Coco Clipboard Magazine into the database, I see
references to "Spectrogram Magazine" by Bill Bernico.  How long did that
run?  Anyone have those issues?  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:26 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> 
> I'm re-uploading the Jan 84 issue of Color Computer Magazine 
> to Malteds "INCOMING" folder, since the 1st time failed for 
> some reason.  Whoever is in charge of moving those around 
> later, the larger version is the correct one.
> I tried to take the bad copy out, but I don't have the 
> permissions for that.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:51 PM
> > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > 
> > I've uploaded all the Coco Clipboard Magazine PDFs to the INCOMING 
> > folder on Malted.  I've also started putting the
> > 1984 PDF issues of Color Computer Magazine there as well, 
> since they 
> > weren't there before.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
> > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:42 PM
> > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > 
> > > Dean, I got 8 disks in the mail today.  Copying them to 
> my HD now.  
> > > I'tt turn them right around to you and start moving the
> > missing Mags
> > > to Malted.
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> > > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> > > > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:19 AM
> > > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> > > > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > > 
> > > > Dean, I'd take a stab at the Docs and manuals part myself.  
> > > > If for no other reason than to get a chance to make
> > copies the DVDs
> > > > for my own use.  If you sent me your copies, I'd duplicate
> > > them for my
> > > > use, return the originals, and upload the missing docs.
> > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> > > > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Dean Leiber
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:57 PM
> > > > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > > > > Subject: [Coco] CoCo/OS-9 Archive
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Judging from Paul's efforts on the database, it appears
> > > > that there is
> > > > > still  stuff in the CoCo/OS-9 Archive (remember the DVDs
> > > > that Glenside
> > > > > sold at the fest a few times...)that  is still not making
> > > it up to
> > > > > maltedmedia or onto other CoCo D/L sites, etc.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there anyone who is willing to U/L the files to
> > > Maltedmedia (be
> > > > > warned in its totality it is 13 GB, but a lot of stuff is
> > > > already up
> > > > > there).  The www. os9projects.com site was supposed to
> > > take care of
> > > > > that, but things haven't worked out as intended. I'll try
> > > > and sort out
> > > > > what's in the archive, but not  on maltedmedia. Any
> > > takers for U/ L
> > > > > duty?
> > > > > I'm on dial-up and it would just be impossible for me
> > to U/L that
> > > > > amount of data.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dean
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > Coco mailing list
> > > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Coco mailing list
> > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Coco mailing list
> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From tlindner at macmess.org  Wed Aug 19 22:57:48 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:57:48 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
Message-ID: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>

I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:

http://tlindner.macmess.org/?p=304

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From theother_bob at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 23:26:25 2009
From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)
In-Reply-To: <4A89D752.4000904@worldnet.att.net>
References: <430283.85976.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A87F41A.4060506@worldnet.att.net>
	<370359.99947.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A8940F4.6040704@worldnet.att.net>
	<374030.2648.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A89D752.4000904@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <990314.53263.qm@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:18:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] wanting to patch HPUT routine... (ping RG!)

theother_bob wrote:
> 

> 
> That makes sense. I did notice the testing routines to swap X or Y values if
> they were inverted. With Color Fog. I could overwrite that code, as I will
> already have done it, and possibly rewrite some of the optional methods that
> I'm not using. I'm sure that would be plenty of space for what I need to do... maybe enough to consolidate the other patch code.
> 
> Now I'm thinking about making a 512K only version with better speed and
> capability, and I'll probably drop Color from the moniker and go hi-res
> with it. With 512K in mind...
> 
> Is there any reason I couldn't copy the SECB ROM/RAM to a spare block,
> apply patches to the copy and then switch my patched block in to run FOG,
> then restore the unpatched (or less patched) block back upon exit? That
> would also benefit me by further reducing code overhead.

>You could encounter problems with that method. SECB switches MMU blocks whenever there is a need to access the Hi-Res text or graphics screens/buffers. Unless you alter the MMU block numbers used by SECB, you would find your personal MMU blocks get switched out of memory.

>Further, some programs may access the ROMs for routines because the programs over-write RAM memory to get more room. If that happened, again your patch might be switched out.

>You need to keep the above in mind if you expect Color Fog to be compatible with all third party programs.

> 
> What is the best (fastest?) way to copy one 8K block to another?
>
> Bob

>Since you don't require the presence of a 6309 CPU, the fastest method for transferring memory contents is to "stack-blast" from one MMU block to another.
By that I mean you set regS and regU to appropriate memory locations, pull D,X,Y from one stack and push D,X,Y onto the other stack.
Of course you must pre-save the original regS (and maybe regU) content and restore it after you are finished.
>



Thanks for the tips Robert and Darren. I don't really plan to change the MMU for running programs, but maybe to backup part of SECB. I have patches that I leave in place when exiting FOG (like 6ms step-rate, drive number layout, various common patches) and I have patches that I revert to original code for compatibility; mainly those that are designed specifically for the benefit of my gui, The mod you gave me for HPRINT and any mod to HGET/HPUT would be removed.

I understand SECB only makes use of the 128K memory map, regardless of  the presence 512K. I've figured out how to safely switch around the HPUT buffer block, so I can also safely use that kind of like a bunch of 8k ramdisks, but I mainly plan to store actual graphic data to be HPUT. I just had the idea of a modified HGET/HPUT routine that selects different "graphic pages" based on, say, high order bits of the Buffer number (always restoring the default page on exit.) hmmm.


      


From daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:10:31 2009
From: daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com (Dave Kelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
In-Reply-To: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <4A8CBEA7.8020800@embarqmail.com>

tim lindner wrote:
> I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
> recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
> finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:
> 
> http://tlindner.macmess.org/?p=304
> 
Must be a magic program. Note at the bottom shows you poste 4 hours in 
th future. Its Aug 19  10:09 pm.  Posting date is August 20  2:23 am.

-- 
I'm a vulgar old cuss, I fought for every bit of filthy dirt on me, 
don't expect me to sparkle.


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Aug 19 23:44:46 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:44:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
In-Reply-To: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <200908192344.46622.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 19 August 2009, tim lindner wrote:
>I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
>recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
>finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:
>
>http://tlindner.macmess.org/?p=304


Neat Tim.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Time is the most valuable thing a man can spend.
		-- Theophrastus



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Wed Aug 19 23:46:23 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:46:23 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
In-Reply-To: <4A8CBEA7.8020800@embarqmail.com>
References: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
	<4A8CBEA7.8020800@embarqmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908192346.24059.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 19 August 2009, Dave Kelly wrote:
>tim lindner wrote:
>> I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
>> recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
>> finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:
>>
>> http://tlindner.macmess.org/?p=304
>
>Must be a magic program. Note at the bottom shows you poste 4 hours in
>th future. Its Aug 19  10:09 pm.  Posting date is August 20  2:23 am.

His machine is more than likely running on utc time.  I do here, and only the 
time displayed to me is the correct local time.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Chemicals, n.:
	Noxious substances from which modern foods are made.



From devries.bob at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:32:43 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:32:43 +1000
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?
References: <20090820004650.GB14909@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <001101ca214f$449d6860$b016cb70@aceraspire>

Willard,
setting the flag _RBF does work, provided you do it before you open the path 
to get input. I have used it on various occasions.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?


> OK, one other thing the subset curses doesn't have is proper raw mode,
> that is, character-by-character input, with NO kernel processing on
> the input stream, so that, if the user types ^C, all that happens is
> that you see an ASCII 0x03 in your input.
>
> But, according to the C manual, I can get this mode by setting a flag
> in the FILE struct to be _RBF.  Is that right?  Does this actually
> work?
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Aug 20 01:09:46 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:09:46 -0500
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
Message-ID: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>

Can anyone enlighten me.

I remember the name from the past. But I can't remember what the program
curses does. It looks like it's used with C programming.

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From skwirl42 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:57:51 2009
From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:57:51 -0300
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:09 AM, Brian Goers<briang0671 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I remember the name from the past. But I can't remember what the program
> curses does. It looks like it's used with C programming.

It makes it easier to write software with a console interface. There
are functions to split the screen, create menus, etc. Never used it
myself, but I'm sure I've used applications that use it. ;)

-- 
James Dessart
<http://ideaoubliette.blogspot.com/>


From keeper63 at cox.net  Thu Aug 20 11:14:01 2009
From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:14:01 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media (tim lindner)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1250776823.86761.coco@maltedmedia.com>
References: <mailman.21.1250776823.86761.coco@maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4A8D6839.8020404@cox.net>

Looks pretty cool! I know you mentioned something like this to me when 
we were doing the GoD project; glad to see it coming along!

-- Andrew


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:34:45 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:34:45 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Off-topic -- Re:  One point of view
In-Reply-To: <103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DA555.6090104@gmail.com>

Wayne Campbell wrote:
>>   A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>>   Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  
>>     
>
> This is not entirely true. Yes, we read from top to bottom and left to right. Some countries read from right to left, top to bottom, and others top to bottom, right to left. The order in which we read is immaterial.
>   
Oh, come on! We read this list in *English*. Moreover, I believe that no 
matter what the language is, the logical order is always the same: what 
comes first is written (and read) first, whether it be from top to 
bottom or from bottom to top... If you were to write instructions in 
Japanese on how to make a cake, would you start with the last point, 
i.e. "Put the pan in the oven and bake for 4o minutes"?

Christian



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:54:13 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:54:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <3071.26094.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>

When you start a new topic, please do not reply to a message from an old 
one. In the archive and when viewed with a thread-aware software, your 
"new" topic appears as a graft on the old one.

Thanks,

Christian



From linville at tuxdriver.com  Thu Aug 20 16:20:33 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:20:33 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>
References: <4A8B2330.6070904@l-w.ca>
	<527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 03:54:13PM -0400, Christian Lesage wrote:
> When you start a new topic, please do not reply to a message from an old  
> one. In the archive and when viewed with a thread-aware software, your  
> "new" topic appears as a graft on the old one.

Yes, please.  I brought this up before, but IIRC people seemed to
(wrongly) believe that changing the subject was sufficient...

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From fwp at deepthought.com  Thu Aug 20 17:12:59 2009
From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:12:59 -0500
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>
References: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com>
	<103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com> <20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com>

Speaking of the Coco 4. Is any progress being made with it? There isn't
much on the website about the progress being made.


On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 04:20:33PM -0400, John W. Linville wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 03:54:13PM -0400, Christian Lesage wrote:
> > When you start a new topic, please do not reply to a message from an old  
> > one. In the archive and when viewed with a thread-aware software, your  
> > "new" topic appears as a graft on the old one.
> 
> Yes, please.  I brought this up before, but IIRC people seemed to
> (wrongly) believe that changing the subject was sufficient...
> 
> John
> -- 
> John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 20 18:52:57 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:52:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com>
References: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com><934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com><658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com><103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com><232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>
	<20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>
	<20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com>
Message-ID: <B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>

I haven't seen any changes on the website in some time.  Of course, Boisey
does have a life.  

I found myself in complete agreement with his initial goals.  I just think
the Hardware follow-on is unnecessary.  When a brand new netbook that can
run VISTA can be had for under $350.00, there is no point in building the
Coco4 in real life.  Get a bargin basement 586, and go to town via
emulation.  The costs are practically nothing, and there are thousands of
hardware add-ons ready to work with that machine.  Don't have to re-invent
the wheel, the axels, the bumper... Just the guages in the cockpit. 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Frank Pittel
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:13 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
> 
> Speaking of the Coco 4. Is any progress being made with it? 
> There isn't much on the website about the progress being made.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 04:20:33PM -0400, John W. Linville wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 03:54:13PM -0400, Christian Lesage wrote:
> > > When you start a new topic, please do not reply to a 
> message from an 
> > > old one. In the archive and when viewed with a thread-aware 
> > > software, your "new" topic appears as a graft on the old one.
> > 
> > Yes, please.  I brought this up before, but IIRC people seemed to
> > (wrongly) believe that changing the subject was sufficient...
> > 
> > John
> > -- 
> > John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a 
> hero, and you
> > linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we 
> have.  Be ready.
> > 
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From RJRTTY at aol.com  Thu Aug 20 19:02:58 2009
From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:02:58 EDT
Subject: [Coco]  who needs a converter?
Message-ID: <c6d.565b6958.37bf3022@aol.com>

People,

Would  everybody who reads this list who wants
and is waiting on a converter please  give me a
shout off list.

thank you,
Roy

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
=JulystepsfooterNO115)


From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Thu Aug 20 19:46:20 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:46:20 +1000
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
In-Reply-To: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
References: <1j4poi6.hjz1zw82ivn0M%tlindner@macmess.org>
Message-ID: <4A8DE04C.8010108@iinet.net.au>

tim lindner wrote:

> I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
> recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
> finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:

Nice work. A "protocol analyser" for disk data!

How about the lower-level stuff, like raw track data. Are you able to start 
from raw track data and apply "IBM sector" analysis to it?

And you have "platform-independent" guts so it'll port to the PC? ;)

An aside: I'm still not convinced that "analyzation" is a word. There are 
scant references to it on the net, and IIUC the word isn't in any common 
usage today. I'd always use "analysis" for the noun form.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au  Thu Aug 20 19:50:37 2009
From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:50:37 +1000
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
	<4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>

James Dessart wrote:

> It makes it easier to write software with a console interface.

I used it for one project in the past, and I'd suggest that the above 
statement is true only for _some_ definitions of the word "easier" ;)

Personally, I thought it was ghastly. I'll never use it again.

Regards,

-- 
|              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
|  <http://members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug>   |   with less resistance!"


From skwirl42 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 20:40:27 2009
From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:40:27 -0300
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
	<4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <4c56cbd30908201740h27a33c65l284b4c746947f320@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Mark McDougall<msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> wrote:

>> It makes it easier to write software with a console interface.
> I used it for one project in the past, and I'd suggest that the above
> statement is true only for _some_ definitions of the word "easier" ;)

Easier than having to rewrite all that functionality yourself, in any case. ;)

-- 
James Dessart
<http://ideaoubliette.blogspot.com/>


From wschaub at steubentech.com  Thu Aug 20 20:42:48 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:42:48 -0400
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>	<4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <4A8DED88.1090209@steubentech.com>

Mark McDougall wrote:
> James Dessart wrote:
>
>> It makes it easier to write software with a console interface.
>
> I used it for one project in the past, and I'd suggest that the above 
> statement is true only for _some_ definitions of the word "easier" ;)
>
> Personally, I thought it was ghastly. I'll never use it again.
>
> Regards,
>
Basically it allows you to write a character based terminal application 
that takes advantage of advanced terminal features like character 
attributes, cursor movement and soforth. and make it run on more than 
one terminal. (it abstracts on top of a database describing different 
terminals and the terminal specific control codes for each terminal in 
the database)

It also allows you to keep track of where the cursor is and address 
different areas of the screen etc.  pretty much all UNIX based terminal 
applications use some form of the curses library (or something very 
similar to curses, in the case of the slrn news reader and a few other 
applications)

hope this makes things more clear. In either case there is a ton of 
applications that depend on curses out there and porting them to OS9 
would require a mostly working curses library. preferably one that 
didn't just understand the OS9 terminal escapes. (because if you have a 
serial port you might want to hook up a VT100 or VT220 to it as an extra 
login terminal, or access OS9 from a PC running a terminal emulator 
software for example)


I actually use an old IBM 3151 terminal every time I go home for 
Christmas I hook it into my Linux laptop to get an extra head and a much 
superior (Model M style clicky keyboard) keyboard for when I have to do 
any real work. I actually find editing source on the green screen 
terminal easier and I can use the graphical screen to display reference 
material on the web etc.  its a bit archaic but I don't think I will 
ever throw out any of my terminals.  being able to use one with the coco 
would be rather nice.






From wschaub at steubentech.com  Thu Aug 20 20:48:56 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:48:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4A8DEEF8.8040102@steubentech.com>

Brian Goers wrote:
> Can anyone enlighten me.
>
> I remember the name from the past. But I can't remember what the program
> curses does. It looks like it's used with C programming.
>
>   
Here's some more info:
http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/psd/19.curses/paper.pdf


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Thu Aug 20 20:52:59 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:52:59 -0600
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?
In-Reply-To: <001101ca214f$449d6860$b016cb70@aceraspire>
References: <20090820004650.GB14909@virgo.sdc.org>
	<001101ca214f$449d6860$b016cb70@aceraspire>
Message-ID: <20090821005259.GA18811@virgo.sdc.org>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 02:32:43PM +1000, Bob Devries wrote:

> setting the flag _RBF does work, provided you do it before you open the 
> path to get input. I have used it on various occasions.

Um, that seems ambigious.  Do you mean set the flat before doing any
input from it, or before opening the file (the second is a problem for
stdin!)

Thanks
Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Thu Aug 20 20:41:07 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:41:07 -0500
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>
References: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com><934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com><658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com><103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com><232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>
	<20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>
	<20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com>
	<B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <79EE7868-E958-444C-B9CE-D86FE799FA8D@tee-boy.com>

On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Paul Fitch wrote:

> I haven't seen any changes on the website in some time.  Of course,  
> Boisey
> does have a life.

Hey Paul, just to clarify, I'm not involved with the CoCo 4 project or  
the website.  You're probably thinking of Steve Bjork.

Boisy


From t.fadden at cox.net  Thu Aug 20 20:56:37 2009
From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:56:37 -0700
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8DED88.1090209@steubentech.com>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>	<4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>	<4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
	<4A8DED88.1090209@steubentech.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DF0C5.8060309@cox.net>

William Schaub wrote:
> Mark McDougall wrote:
>> James Dessart wrote:
>>
>>> It makes it easier to write software with a console interface.
>>
>> I used it for one project in the past, and I'd suggest that the above 
>> statement is true only for _some_ definitions of the word "easier" ;)
>>
>> Personally, I thought it was ghastly. I'll never use it again.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
> Basically it allows you to write a character based terminal 
> application that takes advantage of advanced terminal features like 
> character attributes, cursor movement and soforth. and make it run on 
> more than one terminal. (it abstracts on top of a database describing 
> different terminals and the terminal specific control codes for each 
> terminal in the database)
>
> It also allows you to keep track of where the cursor is and address 
> different areas of the screen etc.  pretty much all UNIX based 
> terminal applications use some form of the curses library (or 
> something very similar to curses, in the case of the slrn news reader 
> and a few other applications)
>
> hope this makes things more clear. In either case there is a ton of 
> applications that depend on curses out there and porting them to OS9 
> would require a mostly working curses library. preferably one that 
> didn't just understand the OS9 terminal escapes. (because if you have 
> a serial port you might want to hook up a VT100 or VT220 to it as an 
> extra login terminal, or access OS9 from a PC running a terminal 
> emulator software for example)
>
>
> I actually use an old IBM 3151 terminal every time I go home for 
> Christmas I hook it into my Linux laptop to get an extra head and a 
> much superior (Model M style clicky keyboard) keyboard for when I have 
> to do any real work. I actually find editing source on the green 
> screen terminal easier and I can use the graphical screen to display 
> reference material on the web etc.  its a bit archaic but I don't 
> think I will ever throw out any of my terminals.  being able to use 
> one with the coco would be rather nice.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
The editor "scred" that comes with the development pack has this feature 
(working with different terminals).  I am surprised that no other os9 
programs took the advantage of the os9 termset file. Does anybody have 
the source for scred?  does it use a curses like library? Or is there 
some other library that is not supplied with coco os9 that has the 
functions?  Its obviously not as full featured as curses, but does 
handle many text screen attributes, more on the scale of the 6809L2 
capabilities.

Tim Fadden




From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Thu Aug 20 21:04:34 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:04:34 -0600
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8DF0C5.8060309@cox.net>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
	<4c56cbd30908200457r316eb2ebv71e76efaf2e35e7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A8DE14D.8070107@iinet.net.au>
	<4A8DED88.1090209@steubentech.com> <4A8DF0C5.8060309@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20090821010434.GB18811@virgo.sdc.org>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 05:56:37PM -0700, Tim Fadden wrote:

>Does anybody have the source for scred?  does it use a curses like
>library? Or is there some other library that is not supplied with
>coco os9 that has the functions?  Its obviously not as full featured
>as curses, but does handle many text screen attributes, more on the
>scale of the 6809L2 capabilities.

Seconded!  I've tried to find out if MW ever released any sort of
programing library for termset, and I've never been able to find out
anything.  

Apparently Microware only used termset for a brief time, before
abandoning it for termcap.  The docs for Dynastar mention this.

But still, I'd like to see termset.l setting in my /dd/libs!

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 20 21:08:29 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:08:29 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <79EE7868-E958-444C-B9CE-D86FE799FA8D@tee-boy.com>
References: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com><934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com><658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com><103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com><232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com><20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com><20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com><B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>
	<79EE7868-E958-444C-B9CE-D86FE799FA8D@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <5AA67231C46342248AFE863B06FD73B8@Dell3Gig>

Whoops. My bad.  Sorry about that. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Boisy G. Pitre
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:41 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
> 
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Paul Fitch wrote:
> 
> > I haven't seen any changes on the website in some time.  Of course, 
> > Boisey does have a life.
> 
> Hey Paul, just to clarify, I'm not involved with the CoCo 4 
> project or the website.  You're probably thinking of Steve Bjork.
> 
> Boisy
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Thu Aug 20 21:17:09 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:17:09 -0600
Subject: [Coco] What Is curses?
In-Reply-To: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A8CDA9A.4060000@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20090821011709.GC18811@virgo.sdc.org>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:09:46AM -0500, Brian Goers wrote:
> Can anyone enlighten me.

This has been throughly answered, but I did want to make a
distinction:  Curses is a high-level (for C, anyway :) abstract
library.  It talks about things like screens, windows, the characters
on the screen, and where to put the cursor.

The low-level stuff about what characters to send to the terminal, how
much time it takes to move the cursor, and where to get this data, is done
(classically) by another library, termcap.

As far as I'm concerned?  Termcap is the scary, hard to use, and ugly
one.  :-) 

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From devries.bob at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 21:28:46 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:28:46 +1000
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?
References: <20090820004650.GB14909@virgo.sdc.org><001101ca214f$449d6860$b016cb70@aceraspire>
	<20090821005259.GA18811@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <000e01ca21fe$bc256ea0$bf53cb70@aceraspire>

Yes, Willard, you're right.

Using raw (aka unbuffered) is more difficult when using stdin, however, at 
least in C, it is possible to dup()  the paths for stdin, stdout and stderr, 
and then close the original, and use the duplicate instead, after setting 
the _RBF flag.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] raw mode?


> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 02:32:43PM +1000, Bob Devries wrote:
>
>> setting the flag _RBF does work, provided you do it before you open the
>> path to get input. I have used it on various occasions.
>
> Um, that seems ambigious.  Do you mean set the flat before doing any
> input from it, or before opening the file (the second is a problem for
> stdin!)
>
> Thanks
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Thu Aug 20 22:10:53 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:10:53 -0600
Subject: [Coco] raw mode?
In-Reply-To: <000e01ca21fe$bc256ea0$bf53cb70@aceraspire>
References: <20090821005259.GA18811@virgo.sdc.org>
	<000e01ca21fe$bc256ea0$bf53cb70@aceraspire>
Message-ID: <20090821021053.GA23579@virgo.sdc.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:28:46AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote:
> Using raw (aka unbuffered) is more difficult when using stdin, however, at 
> least in C, it is possible to dup()  the paths for stdin, stdout and 
> stderr, and then close the original, and use the duplicate instead, after 
> setting the _RBF flag.

My, my.  Thanks for the clarification.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Aug 20 23:14:18 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:14:18 -0500
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
In-Reply-To: <B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>
References: <527875.90606.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819173350.GC5905@tuxdriver.com><934275.43693.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819195601.GJ5905@tuxdriver.com><658412.62735.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090819201333.GK5905@tuxdriver.com><103912.38977.qm@web53701.mail.re2.yahoo.com><232840.93748.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A8DA9E5.10908@gmail.com>	<20090820202032.GF2657@tuxdriver.com>	<20090820211258.GJ29400@warlock.deepthought.com>
	<B458874AD59A49FFB40D686BEF1F95FC@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <4A8E110A.8030807@sbcglobal.net>

Paul Fitch wrote:
> I haven't seen any changes on the website in some time.  Of course, Boisey
> does have a life.  
> 
> I found myself in complete agreement with his initial goals.  I just think
> the Hardware follow-on is unnecessary.  When a brand new netbook that can
> run VISTA can be had for under $350.00, there is no point in building the
> Coco4 in real life.  Get a bargin basement 586, and go to town via
> emulation.  The costs are practically nothing, and there are thousands of
> hardware add-ons ready to work with that machine.  Don't have to re-invent
> the wheel, the axels, the bumper... Just the guages in the cockpit. 
> 
> 
<Stuff Deleted>
As I understand it. The New COCO 4 Computer would have an interface to
allow the old hardware to be plugged into it. The multi pack,
cartridges.  And have a fast computer running the old software but at a
fast clock speed.


-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From farna at att.net  Fri Aug 21 08:56:04 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:56:04 -0400
Subject: [Coco] New topic - Coco 4
Message-ID: <4A8E9964.70308@att.net>

I also agree that the hardware follow-on is dubious at best. I believe a 
centronics parallel port could be programmed to at least read a software 
cartridge, though it might not function with I/O cartridges like a disc 
controller or sound pak. Since an Intel box has better capabilities than 
a hardware CoCo I don't see the point though. As long as PC joysticks 
and such can be software manipulated to work like a CoCo product and 80% 
of CoCo 3 software will run, I'd say the goal has been met. I'm not 
opposed to an add-on card that would more closely emulate CoCo 
functions, maybe have a cartridge port and joystick connectors on it, 
just don't see the need when existing hardware can emulate it. I'd like 
to see a Linux live-cd (or USB key, don't think a floppy is possible) 
CoCo4 that you could boot right up. Strip Linux (or FreeDOS) down and 
auto boot into an emulator menu page that has functions for transferring 
files, or boot directly into the emulator and add a menu item to get out 
and transfer files and such. I strongly recommend fully utilizing the 
parallel port, even if it needed to be a new CC4 feature and not emulate 
a standard CoCo cartridge port. Most computers still have them, and it's 
bi-directional. An experimenter board would be easy to make that plugs 
in. That's the only real need/use of a cartridge port any more. Most 
CoCo cartridge games are now available as DSK files or in some other 
format. A cheap ITX board computer would make an excellent brand new 
CoCo4 platform, or an older P4 board. Would be nice if it would run 
acceptably on a 486, but first gen P4 should be an acceptable base line. 
Might have to have a CC3 compatibility mode and a CC4 expanded 
BASIC/functionality mode, but would prefer the CC4 be and expanded CC3 
that doesn't require external mode switching, at least no more than the 
CC3 does to go into CC1/2 mode.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Fri Aug 21 21:06:10 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:06:10 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
Message-ID: <200908212106.10391.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>




From badfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 21:25:47 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:25:47 -0500
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <200908212106.10391.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
References: <200908212106.10391.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0908211825q52365256p2b81fd87ffa5e11f@mail.gmail.com>

Worked for me.  :)

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 8:06 PM, richec<rcrislip at neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com  Fri Aug 21 21:19:57 2009
From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:19:57 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
Message-ID: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>

Is this going to be an open book test?

-----Original Message-----
From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Sent: 8/21/09 9:06 PM
Subject: [Coco] test



--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco




From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug 21 21:29:05 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:29:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
References: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
Message-ID: <200908212129.05105.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 21 August 2009, Rob Rosenbrock wrote:
>Is this going to be an open book test?
>
I sure hope so, I haven't studied a thing related to this in at least a year, 
& I'm getting rusty.

:-)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Sent: 8/21/09 9:06 PM
>Subject: [Coco] test
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

I was in Vegas last week. I was at the roulette table, having a lengthy
argument about what I considered an Odd number.
		-- Steven Wright



From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Fri Aug 21 21:34:58 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:34:58 -0700
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <200908212106.10391.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
References: <200908212106.10391.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <E79F88D4CBC34D79BED590407C9D28DA@Shasta>

Test Failed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: [Coco] test


> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From zootzoot at cfl.rr.com  Fri Aug 21 22:43:14 2009
From: zootzoot at cfl.rr.com (Stephen Castello)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:43:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
References: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
Message-ID: <3pmu85lrhker7lv4nmd7b50aglv4546eev@4ax.com>

Slip stick required...

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:19:57 -0400, Rob Rosenbrock
<rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com> had a flock of green cheek conures squawk
out:

>Is this going to be an open book test?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>Sent: 8/21/09 9:06 PM
>Subject: [Coco] test
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

-- 

Stephen

"I wanted respect, instead I have turned into a wishing well with
legs."  (Amb. Mollari, B5 "Acts of Sacrifice")


From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Fri Aug 21 23:03:44 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:03:44 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Joining the List
Message-ID: <200908212303.45124.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

Hello... Dennis I guess,

A former CocoNut from the PennFest group called me about taking possesion of 
that groups equipment to be given to the GlenSide group for the next Fest. I 
suggested that he join this list to maybe find a fellow Pa CoCoist who may want 
to assist. I do not have the room to store the stuff. So the point of this 
missive is this, what is the procedure for joining the list? It has been so 
long since I joined, I can't remember how. I will pass the info along to him. 
TIA

Richard


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Fri Aug 21 23:12:07 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:12:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <3pmu85lrhker7lv4nmd7b50aglv4546eev@4ax.com>
References: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
	<3pmu85lrhker7lv4nmd7b50aglv4546eev@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200908212312.07643.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Friday 21 August 2009, Stephen Castello wrote:
>Slip stick required...
>
Darn, my old Picket log-log-duplex-trig froze up from corrosion about 20 
years ago.  Can I use a TI-34 instead?

>On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:19:57 -0400, Rob Rosenbrock
><rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com> had a flock of green cheek conures squawk
>
>out:
>>Is this going to be an open book test?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
>>To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>>Sent: 8/21/09 9:06 PM
>>Subject: [Coco] test
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Coco mailing list
>>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.



From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Fri Aug 21 23:26:14 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:26:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Joining the List
In-Reply-To: <200908212303.45124.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
References: <200908212303.45124.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F6556.3070701@worldnet.att.net>

richec wrote:
> Hello... Dennis I guess,
> 
> A former CocoNut from the PennFest group called me about taking possesion of 
> that groups equipment to be given to the GlenSide group for the next Fest. I 
> suggested that he join this list to maybe find a fellow Pa CoCoist who may want 
> to assist. I do not have the room to store the stuff. So the point of this 
> missive is this, what is the procedure for joining the list? It has been so 
> long since I joined, I can't remember how. I will pass the info along to him. 
> TIA
> 
> Richard
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 

Just look at the url appended to all messages. That will supply all the 
information you need.


From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Fri Aug 21 23:28:12 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:12 -0400
Subject: [Coco] test
In-Reply-To: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
References: <gvbn5pbyq5mh32a.210820092116@zaphod.tzo.com>
Message-ID: <200908212328.12332.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

On Friday 21 August 2009 21:19:57 Rob Rosenbrock wrote:
> Is this going to be an open book test?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "richec" <rcrislip at neo.rr.com>
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Sent: 8/21/09 9:06 PM
> Subject: [Coco] test
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

Errr... It was my first attempt to send an original message on the list. I 
guess it worked 8-].



From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Fri Aug 21 23:30:50 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:30:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Joining the List
In-Reply-To: <4A8F6556.3070701@worldnet.att.net>
References: <200908212303.45124.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>
	<4A8F6556.3070701@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <200908212330.50954.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

On Friday 21 August 2009 23:26:14 Robert Gault wrote:
> richec wrote:
> > Hello... Dennis I guess,
> >
> > A former CocoNut from the PennFest group called me about taking possesion
> > of that groups equipment to be given to the GlenSide group for the next
> > Fest. I suggested that he join this list to maybe find a fellow Pa
> > CoCoist who may want to assist. I do not have the room to store the
> > stuff. So the point of this missive is this, what is the procedure for
> > joining the list? It has been so long since I joined, I can't remember
> > how. I will pass the info along to him. TIA
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> Just look at the url appended to all messages. That will supply all the
> information you need.
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
 Thanks Robert, Dennis already set me straight and I have forwarded the 
response on to the person.



From tlindner at macmess.org  Sat Aug 22 01:58:09 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:58:09 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Analyzation of Classic Computer Media
In-Reply-To: <4A8DE04C.8010108@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <1j4tmb4.1bp87algtorciM%tlindner@macmess.org>

Mark McDougall <msmcdoug at iinet.net.au> wrote:

> tim lindner wrote:
> 
> > I've been working on a program called Blocks for a few years now. Just
> > recently I've got to a point where it is actually useful. I just
> > finished a screen cast to show its basic functionality. Have a look:
> 
> Nice work. A "protocol analyser" for disk data!
> 
> How about the lower-level stuff, like raw track data. Are you able to start
> from raw track data and apply "IBM sector" analysis to it?

That's on the road map. A side bennefit is learning about low level FM,
MFM, and GCR encoding.

> And you have "platform-independent" guts so it'll port to the PC? ;)

The code base is tied fairly tightly to the Mac, but the ideas are
portable enough. :)

> An aside: I'm still not convinced that "analyzation" is a word. There are
> scant references to it on the net, and IIUC the word isn't in any common
> usage today. I'd always use "analysis" for the noun form.

You're right. But it is fairly common for me to get the english language
incorrect.

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 12:50:48 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] 2-meg mem capable 6809 before the gime and coco3?
Message-ID: <428233.85061.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I found a copy of the MC6809 programming manual (from Motorola) on the Freescale Semiconductor site. I started reading through it. Boy, did it make me sit up when I read this:

MC6809-MC6809E Microprocessor Programming Manusl
Original Issue: March 1, 1981
Reprinted:      May, 1983
Section 1 - General Description
1.2 Features
Page 1-2

A Memory Management Unit (MMU), the MC6829, allows a M6809 based system to address a 2 megabyte memory space. NOTE: An arbitrary number of tasks may be supported -- slower -- with software.

This means the original CoCo could have been made in a way that would have blown away everything else around, with the exception of the 16-bit processors that were around by then. But DOS would have been kludging along with 640K while the CoCo would have been flying along at light-speed!

If you ask me, a CoCo4 would be parallel processing with 2 6809 processors and 4 6829 MMUs (that would be 8 megs of RAM per processor?), but then, I don't know anything about what would be required to make that hardware work.

Wayne


      


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 22 15:35:37 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:35:37 -0600
Subject: [Coco] 2-meg mem capable 6809 before the gime and coco3?
In-Reply-To: <428233.85061.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <428233.85061.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090822193537.GA5519@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 09:50:48AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> A Memory Management Unit (MMU), the MC6829, allows a M6809 based
> system to address a 2 megabyte memory space. NOTE: An arbitrary
> number of tasks may be supported -- slower -- with software.
> 
You can't accuse the Motorola engineers of thinking small.  They
clearly had great plans for the 6809 to conquer the entire universe.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen, and most of the esoteric 6809
support chips, like the MMU and the FPO9 ROM, didn't get produced, or
were only produced in small numbers.

It's not like an MMU is necesarily a complex device.  By 82 the
mainframe and mini people had been using MMUs for years.

And as a fellow on the Model 100 list reminded me, OS-9 (even Level
II) ran on other computers besides the CoCo.  GIMIX and other LII
and/or UniFLEX machines had their own MMUs.  The unique thing about
the GIME is that it's *our* MMU. :-) (Well, and maybe that it
duplicates and expands the VDG at the same time. :)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From petrander at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 16:07:04 2009
From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:07:04 +0200
Subject: [Coco] 2-meg mem capable 6809 before the gime and coco3?
In-Reply-To: <428233.85061.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <428233.85061.qm@web53708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dcc956220908221307g205d3c6cv70c2f2d8dccf125d@mail.gmail.com>

Cool!!! I am still hooked on the CoCo4 proposal by SockMaster (
http://www.axess.com/twilight/sock/cocofile/coco4.html) where this neat
little chip may fit right in with the three 6309 CPUs!

Cheers,
Fedor


2009/8/22 Wayne Campbell <asa.rand at yahoo.com>

> I found a copy of the MC6809 programming manual (from Motorola) on the
> Freescale Semiconductor site. I started reading through it. Boy, did it make
> me sit up when I read this:
>
> MC6809-MC6809E Microprocessor Programming Manusl
> Original Issue: March 1, 1981
> Reprinted:      May, 1983
> Section 1 - General Description
> 1.2 Features
> Page 1-2
>
> A Memory Management Unit (MMU), the MC6829, allows a M6809 based system to
> address a 2 megabyte memory space. NOTE: An arbitrary number of tasks may be
> supported -- slower -- with software.
>
> This means the original CoCo could have been made in a way that would have
> blown away everything else around, with the exception of the 16-bit
> processors that were around by then. But DOS would have been kludging along
> with 640K while the CoCo would have been flying along at light-speed!
>
> If you ask me, a CoCo4 would be parallel processing with 2 6809 processors
> and 4 6829 MMUs (that would be 8 megs of RAM per processor?), but then, I
> don't know anything about what would be required to make that hardware work.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Aug 22 23:03:48 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:03:48 -0500
Subject: [Coco] CoCo Mugs
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090822215308.04b80b30@coco3.com>

Dudes and dudettes, I've got my Long Live the CoCo mugs up on the 
site again if you want one, but there's a limited supply.  It's got 
the CoCo man on the side smiling at ya.
www.coco3.com
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com  Sun Aug 23 01:25:19 2009
From: daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com (Dave Kelly)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:25:19 -0500
Subject: [Coco] OT -- Hauppauge USB-Live Video Capture Cable
Message-ID: <4A90D2BF.2040509@embarqmail.com>

If anyone has a "Hauppauge USB-Live Video Capture Cable" for sale, 
please let me know via email.
daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com

Thanks
Dave

-- 
I'm a vulgar old cuss, I fought for every bit of filthy dirt on me, 
don't expect me to sparkle.


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 23 13:57:09 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:57:09 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>

I can do this for 3 orders only...

How about a Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak, EPROM Pak board, Super CoCo 
Archive DVD, and CoCo Mug, all for $49 ?  Yea, I'm losing my butt on 
this stuff, but it's about cash flow these days.

Hurry and reply back if interested.
Roger Taylor
-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From storycrafter at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:02:45 2009
From: storycrafter at gmail.com (Mark Martin)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:02:45 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>

I'm game.  You'll take PayPal?  How about shipping to Round Lake
Beach, IL, 60073?

Thanks!
Mark

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Roger Taylor<operator at coco3.com> wrote:
> I can do this for 3 orders only...
>
> How about a Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak, EPROM Pak board, Super CoCo Archive
> DVD, and CoCo Mug, all for $49 ? ?Yea, I'm losing my butt on this stuff, but
> it's about cash flow these days.
>
> Hurry and reply back if interested.
> Roger Taylor
> --
> Roger Taylor
>
> http://www.wordofthedayonline.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 23 17:42:35 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:42:35 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>

At 03:02 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>I'm game.  You'll take PayPal?  How about shipping to Round Lake
>Beach, IL, 60073?
>
>Thanks!
>Mark



Yes, and you're #3, Mark.  Ya barely made it.  :)  No more paks until 
further notice.  However!... I've got the boards and most of the 
parts to sell kits I guess.  The wireless module doesn't have to be 
plugged in.  The header can be rotated and mounted to meet the 
outside of the pak case flush for a great wired RS-232 experimenter's 
pak.  The basic signals are brought out to the header.  The same 
board can be used as a simple game pak or EPROM board.  Plug an EPROM 
in the socket and run instant software, embedded apps, etc.

My deal was to cover shipping myself.
PayPal to payment at coco3.com
Thanks


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 18:48:24 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:48:24 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/23/09, Roger Taylor wrote:
>
> .. I've got the boards and most of the
> parts to sell kits I guess.  The wireless module doesn't have to be
> plugged in.  The header can be rotated and mounted to meet the
> outside of the pak case flush for a great wired RS-232 experimenter's
> pak.  The basic signals are brought out to the header.
>

Just to be clear Roger,  the signals on the header are TTL level. A
person would need to rig up an RS-232 level translation circuit to use
it as a wired pak.

Darren


From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 23 19:07:39 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:07:39 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
	<5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>

At 05:48 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>On 8/23/09, Roger Taylor wrote:
> >
> > .. I've got the boards and most of the
> > parts to sell kits I guess.  The wireless module doesn't have to be
> > plugged in.  The header can be rotated and mounted to meet the
> > outside of the pak case flush for a great wired RS-232 experimenter's
> > pak.  The basic signals are brought out to the header.
> >
>
>Just to be clear Roger,  the signals on the header are TTL level. A
>person would need to rig up an RS-232 level translation circuit to use
>it as a wired pak.
>
>Darren

True, and all sorts of plug-ins could be used on the header.  I have 
one such pak for myself and this winter I plan to come up with some 
cool add-ons, TTL-compatible or not.



-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 23 19:10:40 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:10:40 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
	<5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823180814.04d25968@coco3.com>

At 06:07 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>At 05:48 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>>On 8/23/09, Roger Taylor wrote:
>> >
>> > .. I've got the boards and most of the
>> > parts to sell kits I guess.  The wireless module doesn't have to be
>> > plugged in.  The header can be rotated and mounted to meet the
>> > outside of the pak case flush for a great wired RS-232 experimenter's
>> > pak.  The basic signals are brought out to the header.
>> >
>>
>>Just to be clear Roger,  the signals on the header are TTL level. A
>>person would need to rig up an RS-232 level translation circuit to use
>>it as a wired pak.
>>
>>Darren
>
>True, and all sorts of plug-ins could be used on the header.  I have 
>one such pak for myself and this winter I plan to come up with some 
>cool add-ons, TTL-compatible or not.

That is, an all-TTL circuit or not.

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.wordofthedayonline.com



From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 20:38:46 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:38:46 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
	<5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908231738w2b268820wdc028e9315548ac4@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/23/09, Roger Taylor wrote:

> At 05:48 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>Just to be clear Roger,  the signals on the header are TTL level. A
>>person would need to rig up an RS-232 level translation circuit to use
>>it as a wired pak.
>>

>
> True, and all sorts of plug-ins could be used on the header.  I have
> one such pak for myself and this winter I plan to come up with some
> cool add-ons, TTL-compatible or not.
>

--

Whatever happened to the CoCoNet software?  Do you still have plans to
release it?

Darren


From operator at coco3.com  Mon Aug 24 12:49:28 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:49:28 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908231738w2b268820wdc028e9315548ac4@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090823124930.050db3d0@coco3.com>
	<e40c28290908231302v4f5b85d2qfc1584d38fb86308@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823163556.05298a40@coco3.com>
	<5d802cd0908231548s3f69271l9f4d8468c179fc3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20090823180330.04d25590@coco3.com>
	<5d802cd0908231738w2b268820wdc028e9315548ac4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090824113347.0453f300@coco3.com>

At 07:38 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
>On 8/23/09, Roger Taylor wrote:
>
> > At 05:48 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >>Just to be clear Roger,  the signals on the header are TTL level. A
> >>person would need to rig up an RS-232 level translation circuit to use
> >>it as a wired pak.
> >>
>
> >
> > True, and all sorts of plug-ins could be used on the header.  I have
> > one such pak for myself and this winter I plan to come up with some
> > cool add-ons, TTL-compatible or not.
> >
>
>--
>
>Whatever happened to the CoCoNet software?  Do you still have plans to
>release it?
>
>Darren

I've had way too much on the plate at once the past 12 months, so 
CoCoNet had to wait.

My plans were to get it released this fall/winter, even if it means 
releasing the source code into the Public Domain.  Even if it sells 
70 copies, that's 200+ other CoCo users that couldn't play the game, 
so to speak.  The idea is to let anybody with a CoCo serial to PC 
cable, a 6551-based pak, the Forgotten Chip mod, etc. to use CoCoNet 
to talk over the web, using a nearby PC of course.  The Deluxe 
Wireless pak just makes it better because there's no wires and the 
CoCo can be moved around the house or shop with instant "internet 
access".  But I need to make it clear that CoCoNet at this time adds 
only a handful of fundamental routines that BASIC programmers then 
use a base in their own web-based apps.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From ed.orbea at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 21:17:37 2009
From: ed.orbea at gmail.com (Ed Orbea)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:17:37 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
Message-ID: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>

Roger, in your reply you said: "...is to let anybody with a CoCo serial to
PC
cable, a 6551-based pak, the Forgotten Chip mod, etc". For those of us who
are not at the same level of knowledge, what is "the Forgorren Chip mod"?

Ed Orbea


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug 24 21:45:36 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:45:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 24 August 2009, Ed Orbea wrote:
>Roger, in your reply you said: "...is to let anybody with a CoCo serial to
>PC
>cable, a 6551-based pak, the Forgotten Chip mod, etc". For those of us who
>are not at the same level of knowledge, what is "the Forgorren Chip mod"?
>
That was the name of an article in Rainbow, on how to install a normal acia 
(sy6551) serial comm chip, in a std coco2, and do it in such a way that under 
os9, it shared the regular serial ports connections, but with I believe, 
better flow controls.

I used that in a coco2, running os9 and a proggy I wrote in basic09, to be a 
better EDISK for a tv production video switcher known as the Grass Valley 
Groups 300 series.  It worked flawlessly for about 12 years except for losing 
3 disk controllers, presumably when mother nature walked around with her 
fireworks, which can be a problem when you have a 255' high lightning rod 50 
feet out the back door, and tied to the house electrics grounding with _very_ 
large conductors.

The chip kit in mine lived on a piece of perfboard under the keyboard, and I 
got the parts from an old DCM-300 modem.  I had it running at 2400 baud, and 
might have tried to go faster, but the next increment in the Grass was to 
38.4 kilobaud, and I knew the coco couldn't keep up with that.  It was only 4 
times faster than the $20K Grass Valley setup, so I quit while I was ahead. 
:)

I'm sure someone here can quote the issue it was in.
 
>Ed Orbea

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Where are the calculations that go with a calculated risk?



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug 24 22:51:55 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:51:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <7010131CF7C14ACBA793F0A289606DB8@Dell3Gig>

Having a database pays off<g>.   The Forgotten Chip article in Rainbow was
in May 1989, page 130.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:46 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
> 
> On Monday 24 August 2009, Ed Orbea wrote:
> >Roger, in your reply you said: "...is to let anybody with a 
> CoCo serial 
> >to PC cable, a 6551-based pak, the Forgotten Chip mod, etc". 
> For those 
> >of us who are not at the same level of knowledge, what is "the 
> >Forgorren Chip mod"?
> >
> That was the name of an article in Rainbow, on how to install 
> a normal acia
> (sy6551) serial comm chip, in a std coco2, and do it in such 
> a way that under os9, it shared the regular serial ports 
> connections, but with I believe, better flow controls.
> 
> I used that in a coco2, running os9 and a proggy I wrote in 
> basic09, to be a better EDISK for a tv production video 
> switcher known as the Grass Valley Groups 300 series.  It 
> worked flawlessly for about 12 years except for losing
> 3 disk controllers, presumably when mother nature walked 
> around with her fireworks, which can be a problem when you 
> have a 255' high lightning rod 50 feet out the back door, and 
> tied to the house electrics grounding with _very_ large conductors.
> 
> The chip kit in mine lived on a piece of perfboard under the 
> keyboard, and I got the parts from an old DCM-300 modem.  I 
> had it running at 2400 baud, and might have tried to go 
> faster, but the next increment in the Grass was to
> 38.4 kilobaud, and I knew the coco couldn't keep up with 
> that.  It was only 4 times faster than the $20K Grass Valley 
> setup, so I quit while I was ahead. 
> :)
> 
> I'm sure someone here can quote the issue it was in.
>  
> >Ed Orbea
> 
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who 
> wants them.
> <https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
> 
> Where are the calculations that go with a calculated risk?
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug 24 23:03:20 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:03:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <7010131CF7C14ACBA793F0A289606DB8@Dell3Gig>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<7010131CF7C14ACBA793F0A289606DB8@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <200908242303.20403.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 24 August 2009, Paul Fitch wrote:
>Having a database pays off<g>.   The Forgotten Chip article in Rainbow was
>in May 1989, page 130.
>
Thanks Paul.

[...]

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

About the only thing we have left that actually discriminates in favor of
the plain people is the stork.



From ed.orbea at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:41:31 2009
From: ed.orbea at gmail.com (Ed Orbea)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:41:31 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Was: Deal to first 3 responders, Now: The Forgotten Cjip
Message-ID: <9e22cc9d0908242041o7bba94k5f16af7d41c82fc7@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all for the responses. I guess I need to start looking the Rainbow
Database (in MS Access) that was recently created and I downloaded. <grin>

Ed Orbea


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Tue Aug 25 00:25:14 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:25:14 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>

 
There are currently over 9,100 individual lines in the database right now.
That's close to 1,000 more articals, editorials, reviews and tutorials since
I made a VERY draft copy of the database available for review last month.  

Since I had the MAY 1989 Rainbow up I went ahead and filled in all the keys
to that months articles already included from the Rainbow index I imported.
Easilly 20% of the articles and reviews were MISSING from the Rainbow Index.


The rainbow index had over 7,000 lines covering 10 years of The Rainbow.
That means there are probably 1,000 or more articles that got 'lost'.  It's
going to take some time to go thru each month and make up the difference.

Still, even in the sorry state the database is in right now, I've found it
to be very useful. 



From rcrislip at neo.rr.com  Tue Aug 25 09:04:34 2009
From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:04:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <200908250904.34684.rcrislip@neo.rr.com>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 00:25:14 Paul Fitch wrote:
> There are currently over 9,100 individual lines in the database right now.
> That's close to 1,000 more articals, editorials, reviews and tutorials
> since I made a VERY draft copy of the database available for review last
> month.
>
> Since I had the MAY 1989 Rainbow up I went ahead and filled in all the keys
> to that months articles already included from the Rainbow index I imported.
> Easilly 20% of the articles and reviews were MISSING from the Rainbow
> Index.
>
>
> The rainbow index had over 7,000 lines covering 10 years of The Rainbow.
> That means there are probably 1,000 or more articles that got 'lost'.  It's
> going to take some time to go thru each month and make up the difference.
>
> Still, even in the sorry state the database is in right now, I've found it
> to be very useful.
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

 OK, I'll admit it, I got stoned and I missed it 8-(. Where can I get that 
database. TIA

Richard


From operator at coco3.com  Tue Aug 25 13:59:20 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:59:20 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090825125613.050c8640@coco3.com>

At 08:17 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote:
>Roger, in your reply you said: "...is to let anybody with a CoCo serial to
>PC
>cable, a 6551-based pak, the Forgotten Chip mod, etc". For those of us who
>are not at the same level of knowledge, what is "the Forgorren Chip mod"?
>
>Ed Orbea


The Fogotten Chip mod is a Rainbow magazine article describing how to 
solder a 6551 ACIA circuit to your CoCo motherboard which works 
through your printer port.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:09:30 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:09:30 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4A9444FA.1080007@gmail.com>

Gene Heskett wrote:
> That was the name of an article in Rainbow, on how to install a normal acia 
> (sy6551) serial comm chip, in a std coco2, and do it in such a way that under 
> os9, it shared the regular serial ports connections, but with I believe, 
> better flow controls.
>   
Nice mod! The only drawback I can see is that it still uses only 4 wires 
to communicate with the outside world, so true hardware flow control is 
out of question. I've been looking for doing something similar, but I 
was thinking about putting the 6551 inside the Multi-Pak interface 
instead. Yes, it would imply doing address decoding and RS-232 level 
translation, while this mod merely uses one additional chip. And yes, I 
know Roger sells RS-232 paks, but my goal is to free an additional slot 
on the Multi-Pak interface.

Christian



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Tue Aug 25 17:08:20 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:08:20 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <4A9444FA.1080007@gmail.com>
References: <9e22cc9d0908241817g2d3da7f7x6d735245edf88b37@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908242145.36470.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
	<4A9444FA.1080007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908251708.20158.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009, Christian Lesage wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> That was the name of an article in Rainbow, on how to install a normal
>> acia (sy6551) serial comm chip, in a std coco2, and do it in such a way
>> that under os9, it shared the regular serial ports connections, but with
>> I believe, better flow controls.
>
>Nice mod! The only drawback I can see is that it still uses only 4 wires
>to communicate with the outside world, so true hardware flow control is
>out of question.

If you read carefully, I believe the ready line was treated as a wired or, so 
either side could pull it down and stop the transfer at the end of the byte.

How well that worked I have no idea cuz I never ran it faster than 2400 baud, 
with $88 byte packets, the contents of one buses control register, so there 
was a dead clock pulse or 3 in between the GVG handing it data, or vice 
versa, as some registers in the GVG were cascaded as much as 5 packets deep.

The only dropped data problems I ever had with it in that application were 
the result of a badly designed and very high failure rate 4 bit wide , 16 
nibbles  deep fifo that GVG used a pair of as a rubber buffer between parts 
of the circuit, clocking pulse failures internally.  I finally found an AMD 
chip that was almost a std jedec number, and about 10,000 times more 
dependable.  I bought 2 sticks for $1.84 ea, compared to the $30+ Grass 
wanted for their old stock, and I believe there was two OEM chips in it yet 
when we pulled the GVG in favor of about 80 grand worth of a new switcher 
from echolab that ran on 5% of the Grasses power, and had 10x the bells and 
whistles the Grass had.

>I've been looking for doing something similar, but I
>was thinking about putting the 6551 inside the Multi-Pak interface
>instead. Yes, it would imply doing address decoding and RS-232 level
>translation, while this mod merely uses one additional chip. And yes, I
>know Roger sells RS-232 paks, but my goal is to free an additional slot
>on the Multi-Pak interface.

That we could use.  But far more utility would be made by simply doing full 
decoding of the i/o ports used .  Wasting a $20 wide chip enable on a 4 
address wide i/o port, and doing it 4 times if you count the disk controller 
is inexcusable, and IMO purposely hamstrung the machine.  Whoever did that 
ought to have been water boarded, repeatedly, until he got religion.  Yes, it 
could be fixed, but it would be an individual fix to every coco that wanted 
its Achilles tendons whole.  On the mobo, at the design stage, cost might 
have been a quarter dollar!  I boil over every time I think about it.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

<Knghtbrd> hardcopy is for wussies
<Topher> computer program listings....next, on HardCopy



From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 00:21:52 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
Message-ID: <981887.58523.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That's bean counters for you. Even $.02 ruins the price point for them, so they shut-down what could have been a quality booster, and instead invest even more money for warranties, etc, than would have been needed for that extra little bit spent improving reliability and quality. IT boils down to corporate greed, or in this case, a lack of caring about details in their little machine.

-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.

--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 4:08 PM

On Tuesday 25 August 2009, Christian Lesage wrote:
>I've been looking for doing something similar, but I
>was thinking about putting the 6551 inside the Multi-Pak interface
>instead. Yes, it would imply doing address decoding and RS-232 level
>translation, while this mod merely uses one additional chip. And yes, I
>know Roger sells RS-232 paks, but my goal is to free an additional slot
>on the Multi-Pak interface.

That we could use.? But far more utility would be made by simply doing full decoding of the i/o ports used .? Wasting a $20 wide chip enable on a 4 address wide i/o port, and doing it 4 times if you count the disk controller is inexcusable, and IMO purposely hamstrung the machine.? Whoever did that ought to have been water boarded, repeatedly, until he got religion.? Yes, it could be fixed, but it would be an individual fix to every coco that wanted its Achilles tendons whole.? On the mobo, at the design stage, cost might have been a quarter dollar!? I boil over every time I think about it.



      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Aug 27 00:57:05 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:57:05 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <981887.58523.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <981887.58523.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908270057.05191.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 27 August 2009, Bill Barnes wrote:
>That's bean counters for you. Even $.02 ruins the price point for them, so
> they shut-down what could have been a quality booster, and instead invest
> even more money for warranties, etc, than would have been needed for that
> extra little bit spent improving reliability and quality. IT boils down to
> corporate greed, or in this case, a lack of caring about details in their
> little machine.

I would tell you to please fix you email agent to do proper quoting, but on 
checking headers I see you are using yahoo's webmail interface.  I do not 
believe its fixable.  The point being that your reply (top posted) is not 
being differentiated from my earlier reply below, so its difficult for other 
readers to tell who wrote what.

Every trip a message makes through someones editor, should have an additional 
> prepended to each line, as Christians earlier post below shows, with two >>

As for your reply Bill, +100%.  Bean counters will be the death of mankind.

>-Later!   -WB-    -- BABIC Computer Consulting.
>
>--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>From: Gene Heskett <gene.heskett at verizon.net>
>Subject: Re: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
>To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
>Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 4:08 PM
>
>On Tuesday 25 August 2009, Christian Lesage wrote:
>>I've been looking for doing something similar, but I
>>was thinking about putting the 6551 inside the Multi-Pak interface
>>instead. Yes, it would imply doing address decoding and RS-232 level
>>translation, while this mod merely uses one additional chip. And yes, I
>>know Roger sells RS-232 paks, but my goal is to free an additional slot
>>on the Multi-Pak interface.
>
>That we could use.  But far more utility would be made by simply doing full
> decoding of the i/o ports used .  Wasting a $20 wide chip enable on a 4
> address wide i/o port, and doing it 4 times if you count the disk
> controller is inexcusable, and IMO purposely hamstrung the machine. 
> Whoever did that ought to have been water boarded, repeatedly, until he
> got religion.  Yes, it could be fixed, but it would be an individual fix
> to every coco that wanted its Achilles tendons whole.  On the mobo, at the
> design stage, cost might have been a quarter dollar!  I boil over every
> time I think about it.
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

When we write programs that "learn", it turns out we do and they don't.


From RJRTTY at aol.com  Thu Aug 27 02:23:09 2009
From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:23:09 EDT
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
Message-ID: <c52.5813a3f9.37c7804d@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/27/2009 12:57:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
gene.heskett at verizon.net writes:


>I would tell you to please fix you email agent to do proper quoting,  but 
on 
>checking headers I see you are using yahoo's webmail  interface.  I do not 
>believe its fixable.  The point being  that your reply (top posted) is not 
>being differentiated from my earlier  reply below, so its difficult for 
other 
>readers to tell who wrote  what.

>Every trip a message makes through someones editor, should have  an 
additional 
> prepended to each line, as Christians earlier post below  shows, with two 
>>
 
 
AOL is worse.  I have to add the quotes manually as the AOL
interface only allows quotes in HTML mode.
 
and yes the bean counters kept the coco from being
perfect.   May the flees of 1000 camels infest their
arm pits......:
 
Roy
 


From shadow at shadowgard.com  Thu Aug 27 04:20:38 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:20:38 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
Message-ID: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>

Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial 
cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the 
pinout:

DIN		DB-25
1		n/c
2		6
3		7
4		2

		4-+
		5-+

		8--+
		20-+

		11-+
		18-+


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From aawolfe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 04:55:18 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:55:18 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com>

serial printer?


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
> pinout:
>
> DIN ? ? ? ? ? ? DB-25
> 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? n/c
> 2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6
> 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7
> 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4-+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-+
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?8--+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?20-+
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11-+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-+
>
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com
>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Thu Aug 27 06:16:55 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:16:55 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy>

I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla Banana printer from 
DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I made my own cable 
rather than buying his overpriced one.



Bruce W.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Wolfe"


serial printer?


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
> pinout:
>
> DIN DB-25 



From boisy at tee-boy.com  Thu Aug 27 07:31:00 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:31:00 -0500
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy>
Message-ID: <40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>

Bruce,

Boy did this message bring back an old memory!  I remember those DAK  
catalogs and especially the Gorilla Banana printer that a friend of  
mine bought.  I found a link to the ad for the printer here:

http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html

Good stuff, good memories, good times!

On Aug 27, 2009, at 5:16 AM, Bruce W. Calkins wrote:

> I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla Banana  
> printer from DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I  
> made my own cable rather than buying his overpriced one.
>
>
>
> Bruce W.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe"
>
>
> serial printer?
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
>> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
>> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
>> pinout:
>>
>> DIN DB-25
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:30:10 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:30:10 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <93f331ac0908270830r1b2ec006l2f466b328868655f@mail.gmail.com>

If it's DB25 to 4-pin DIN ISTR it was a printer cable - or maybe modem?

Neil

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
>
>
> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
> pinout:


From coffeecircle at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 09:08:55 2009
From: coffeecircle at yahoo.com (Russell Flowers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:08:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <150649.95415.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Hard to tell from the formatting, but could it just be a converter cable from CoCo's DIN to standard (more or less) serial cable?

-- R Flowers


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 11:45:47 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy>
	<40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <162386.84841.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer. I bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL

Wayne




________________________________
From: Boisy G. Pitre <boisy at tee-boy.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:31:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable

Bruce,

Boy did this message bring back an old memory!  I remember those DAK  
catalogs and especially the Gorilla Banana printer that a friend of  
mine bought.  I found a link to the ad for the printer here:

http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html

Good stuff, good memories, good times!

On Aug 27, 2009, at 5:16 AM, Bruce W. Calkins wrote:

> I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla Banana  
> printer from DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I  
> made my own cable rather than buying his overpriced one.
>
>
>
> Bruce W.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe"
>
>
> serial printer?
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
>> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
>> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
>> pinout:
>>
>> DIN DB-25
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Thu Aug 27 11:58:13 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:58:13 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <c52.5813a3f9.37c7804d@aol.com>
References: <c52.5813a3f9.37c7804d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200908271158.13784.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Thursday 27 August 2009, RJRTTY at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 8/27/2009 12:57:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>
>gene.heskett at verizon.net writes:
>>I would tell you to please fix you email agent to do proper quoting,  but
>
>on
>
>>checking headers I see you are using yahoo's webmail  interface.  I do not
>>believe its fixable.  The point being  that your reply (top posted) is not
>>being differentiated from my earlier  reply below, so its difficult for
>
>other
>
>>readers to tell who wrote  what.
>>
>>Every trip a message makes through someones editor, should have  an
>
>additional
>
>> prepended to each line, as Christians earlier post below  shows, with two
>
>AOL is worse.  I have to add the quotes manually as the AOL
>interface only allows quotes in HTML mode.
>
>and yes the bean counters kept the coco from being
>perfect.   May the flees of 1000 camels infest their
>arm pits......:
>
Yes, please.  And other neither regions.

>Roy
>
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

The memory management on the PowerPC can be used to frighten small children.
	-- Linus Torvalds


From Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com  Thu Aug 27 12:39:35 2009
From: Rich.Ries at Honeywell.com (Ries, Rich (NY80))
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:39:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 75, Issue 40
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1251381613.49006.coco@maltedmedia.com>
References: <mailman.29.1251381613.49006.coco@maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <13ECAD6262BAAE41908A56E94650E15D0B0413@DE08EV1002.global.ds.honeywell.com>

According to the RS232 specs,
6 = DSR
7 = Signal Ground
2 = TxD

These connections create a NULL modem
4 = RTS
5 = CTS

8 = DCD
20 = DTR

11 & 18 are not used.

So the chances are good this is for a special type of printer; the 11-18
connection may be for the printer to detect if the connector is plugged
in??

--Rich
 
-----Original Message-----
Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial cable.
I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
pinout:

DIN		DB-25
1		n/c
2		6
3		7
4		2

		4-+
		5-+

		8--+
		20-+

		11-+
		18-+



From farna at att.net  Thu Aug 27 14:12:21 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:12:21 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
Message-ID: <4A96CC85.40705@att.net>

There's also the point that RS didn't want the CoCo to be too powerful or attractive -- it would then take away from the more profitable Tandy 1000 sales. 

---------------
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Barnes <da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com>

That's bean counters for you. Even $.02 ruins the price point for them, so they shut-down what could have been a quality booster, and instead invest even more money for warranties, etc, than would have been needed for that extra little bit spent improving reliability and quality. IT boils down to corporate greed, or in this case, a lack of caring about details in their little machine.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Thu Aug 27 14:26:59 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:26:59 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Deal to first 3 responders
In-Reply-To: <4A96CC85.40705@att.net>
References: <4A96CC85.40705@att.net>
Message-ID: <BC524B6F-FDB0-43C0-B12D-8AB7071BFAA3@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-27-09, at 12:12 PM, Frank Swygert wrote:
> There's also the point that RS didn't want the CoCo to be too  
> powerful or attractive -- it would then take away from the more  
> profitable Tandy 1000 sales.

I think a company has real management problems when they worry more  
about competing with themselves and maximizing product margins rather  
than competing against other companies in their market.  This seems to  
happen a lot, especially as a company edges towards becoming a  
monopoly.  Interestingly, this can result in a lot of employees  
bailing, having become frustrated with the limitations imposed on  
their development work, and going to work for those competitors.

-- JP



From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Thu Aug 27 15:48:35 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <752783367.4623031251402024206.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer. I
> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL

As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware base as the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of a DIN connector and probably a different ROM.
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net



From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Thu Aug 27 17:39:38 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:39:38 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
References: <1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D436920279DD483EA721455E71334743@speedy>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wdg3rd at comcast.net>
> ----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
>> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer. I
>> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL
>
> As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware base as 
> the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of a DIN 
> connector and probably a different ROM.
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths
======================================

When one ordered their printer from DAK you had to specify if you wanted the 
serial version.  They included the serial ROM in your order for free, but 
you had to change it yourself.  they also provided the pin outs for making 
your own cable, or they would sell you one.

Bruce W. 



From spam_proof at verizon.net  Thu Aug 27 18:12:56 2009
From: spam_proof at verizon.net (Aaron Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:12:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Gorilla Banana printers
In-Reply-To: <40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy>
	<40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <86B43B23-AB8D-4FFE-8BA7-F5DCC5028787@verizon.net>


I have a working Gorilla Banana printer.  My last ribbon is threadbare  
(after being re-inked so many times).  Many moons ago, I installed a  
chip in the printer so it could run at 600 baud (which the coco uses  
for PRINT #-2).

The Line Printer VII ribbon fits my Gorilla Banana, but does anyone  
have any idea of where these rare ribbons can be obtained?
                                - Aaron


>
>> I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla Banana  
>> printer from DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I  
>> made my own cable rather than buying his overpriced one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe"
>>
>>
>> serial printer?



From zootzoot at cfl.rr.com  Thu Aug 27 18:38:06 2009
From: zootzoot at cfl.rr.com (Stephen Castello)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:38:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <752783367.4623031251402024206.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC), wdg3rd at comcast.net had a
flock of green cheek conures squawk out:

>----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
>> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer. I
>> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL
>
>As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware base as the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of a DIN connector and probably a different ROM.
>-- 
>Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net

My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.

-- 

Stephen

Drive A: not responding.. .Formating C: instead


From mdelyea at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 19:38:46 2009
From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:38:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>
References: <752783367.4623031251402024206.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1b52e6c80908271638k54758d4ckf235a773c6075e7c@mail.gmail.com>

I had a DMP-105 and a DMP-106 and a TP-10.  Someone actually stole the DMP-106.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Stephen Castello<zootzoot at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC), wdg3rd at comcast.net had a
> flock of green cheek conures squawk out:
>
>>----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
>>> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer. I
>>> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL
>>
>>As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware base as the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of a DIN connector and probably a different ROM.
>>--
>>Ward Griffiths ? ? ? ?wdg3rd at comcast.net
>
> My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.
>
> --
>
> Stephen
>
> Drive A: not responding.. .Formating C: instead
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Thu Aug 27 20:51:24 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:51:24 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
References: <752783367.4623031251402024206.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>
	<1b52e6c80908271638k54758d4ckf235a773c6075e7c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC235139C51742A0A9BAF54637DFC1DD@speedy>


> My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.
>
> Stephen

============================================

Well, I have to beg to differ.  I have DMP-105s and DMP-106s and I see 
little in common with the Gorilla Banana they replaced.

Bruce W.



From shadow at shadowgard.com  Thu Aug 27 21:30:18 2009
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:30:18 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <93f331ac0908270830r1b2ec006l2f466b328868655f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<93f331ac0908270830r1b2ec006l2f466b328868655f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A96D0BA.6079.2D57CB46@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 27 Aug 2009 at 8:30, Neil Morrison wrote:

> If it's DB25 to 4-pin DIN ISTR it was a printer cable - or maybe modem?

Seems to be overkill for either. Especially for a modem.

I have another cable that is just 4 pins on each end:

DIN4	DB25
1		8
2		3
3		7
4		2


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




From zootzoot at cfl.rr.com  Thu Aug 27 21:32:07 2009
From: zootzoot at cfl.rr.com (Stephen Castello)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:32:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <CC235139C51742A0A9BAF54637DFC1DD@speedy>
References: <752783367.4623031251402024206.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><1509799026.4626861251402515366.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>
	<1b52e6c80908271638k54758d4ckf235a773c6075e7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC235139C51742A0A9BAF54637DFC1DD@speedy>
Message-ID: <grce95dt2geubt0ajvk3a1cnodu968kmbf@4ax.com>

You might be right, it's been several years.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:51:24 -0400, "Bruce W. Calkins"
<brucewcalkins at charter.net> had a flock of green cheek conures squawk
out:

>
>> My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.
>>
>> Stephen
>
>============================================
>
>Well, I have to beg to differ.  I have DMP-105s and DMP-106s and I see 
>little in common with the Gorilla Banana they replaced.
>
>Bruce W.

-- 

Stephen

God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 27 22:21:07 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:21:07 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <162386.84841.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com><e44ad6640908270155u556aa66al6417f3dc96fdc9a@mail.gmail.com><A443D70F9B1843DC85C3DBA768DEDD06@speedy><40E54900-98E8-4516-90AF-E124D1F2D61E@tee-boy.com>
	<162386.84841.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <58E8918101AE4FF4B6863A19110BFDB8@Dell3Gig>

I had one when I was in the Army in germany.  They shipped it to me in a
large fruit type box with holes cut in it, and it had a large banana on the
side and said in giant print "Gorilla Banana."  The mailroom guy was half
convinced I'd ordered a 10lb piece of fruit<g>.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
> 
> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print 
> out the source code to DCom. It worked very well for a 
> dot-matrix printer. I bookmarked the page so I can show it to 
> people who disbelieve. LOL
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Boisy G. Pitre <boisy at tee-boy.com>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:31:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> Boy did this message bring back an old memory!  I remember 
> those DAK catalogs and especially the Gorilla Banana printer 
> that a friend of mine bought.  I found a link to the ad for 
> the printer here:
> 
> http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
> 
> Good stuff, good memories, good times!
> 
> On Aug 27, 2009, at 5:16 AM, Bruce W. Calkins wrote:
> 
> > I do not remember the pin out, but I once had a Gorilla 
> Banana printer 
> > from DAK Industries that had a serial DB-25 connector.  I 
> made my own 
> > cable rather than buying his overpriced one.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe"
> >
> >
> > serial printer?
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> >> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
> >> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
> >> pinout:
> >>
> >> DIN DB-25
> >
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From briang0671 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Aug 27 23:18:07 2009
From: briang0671 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Goers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:18:07 -0500
Subject: [Coco] I lost the message. Are you looking for a Hauppauge video
	card?
Message-ID: <4A974C6F.9000002@sbcglobal.net>

I found this on www.weirdstuff.com.
They are resellers of surplus computer hardware.

Hauppauge ImpactVCB 4-Channel Video Capture Board s-Video & Composite

Sorry everyone this is off topic.

-- 
Brian Goers
Glenside Computer Club
Vice President of Special Events


From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com  Thu Aug 27 23:56:13 2009
From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:56:13 -0700
Subject: [Coco] I lost the message. Are you looking for a Hauppauge
	videocard?
In-Reply-To: <4A974C6F.9000002@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4A974C6F.9000002@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <C70CA636EB0647BF8DB0789F8D7C16B4@Shasta>

Hi,

Opps, I have to increase the number of open local Electronics Surplus stores 
by one.

Of the two dozen plus at one time, I thought that the number still open was 
three, so I have to up it to four.

It has been many years since I visited their store. They even are still in 
the same place.

SHF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Goers" <briang0671 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [Coco] I lost the message. Are you looking for a Hauppauge 
videocard?


>I found this on www.weirdstuff.com.
> They are resellers of surplus computer hardware.
>
> Hauppauge ImpactVCB 4-Channel Video Capture Board s-Video & Composite
>
> Sorry everyone this is off topic.
>
> -- 
> Brian Goers



From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Fri Aug 28 00:05:44 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:05:44 -0600
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 01:20:38AM -0700, shadow at shadowgard.com wrote:
> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial 
> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the 
> pinout:
> 
So your pinout is:
1 CD     n/c
2 RD     6  DSR
3 GND    7  GND
4 TD     2  TD
         4-5  rts-cts
         8-20 cd-dtr
         11-18 unassigned-unassigned

So yeah, serial printer of some sort.  Pretty normal except the 11-18
tie.  That's something a little strange.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Fri Aug 28 00:15:02 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:15:02 -0600
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A96D0BA.6079.2D57CB46@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <93f331ac0908270830r1b2ec006l2f466b328868655f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A96D0BA.6079.2D57CB46@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <20090828041502.GB3228@virgo.sdc.org>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 06:30:18PM -0700, shadow at shadowgard.com wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2009 at 8:30, Neil Morrison wrote:
> 
> > If it's DB25 to 4-pin DIN ISTR it was a printer cable - or maybe modem?
> 
> Seems to be overkill for either. Especially for a modem.

Well, you've got to make the printer's hardware happy.
 
> I have another cable that is just 4 pins on each end:
> 
> DIN4	DB25
> 1		8
> 2		3
> 3		7
> 4		2

That's a more normal modem cable, but it has no hardware flow
control.  You can hook up to a PC with this if you use a standard
null-modem adaptor.  

PC's seem to have pretty forgiving serial ports, some other machines
are really picky about things like the CTS signal.  No CTS, and the
machine will refuse to transmit.

The easiest way to make picky serial ports happy is to feed thier own
outputs into the inputs.  For this cable, tie 4-5 (RTS-CTS) and 6-20
(DSR-DTR).

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:18:43 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:18:43 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Willard Goosey<goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 01:20:38AM -0700, shadow at shadowgard.com wrote:
>> Digging thru boxes of old stuff I came across an odd CoCo serial
>> cable. I'm wondering if anybody knows what it was for. Here's the
>> pinout:
>>
> So your pinout is:
> 1 CD ? ? n/c
> 2 RD ? ? 6 ?DSR
> 3 GND ? ?7 ?GND
> 4 TD ? ? 2 ?TD
> ? ? ? ? 4-5 ?rts-cts
> ? ? ? ? 8-20 cd-dtr
> ? ? ? ? 11-18 unassigned-unassigned
>
> So yeah, serial printer of some sort. ?Pretty normal except the 11-18
> tie. ?That's something a little strange.
>

using pin 11 for flow control isn't that strange on a serial printer,
there are several models that do this.  pin 18 I have never seen used
on a printer, but 19 is sometimes, and especially with it tied to pin
11 i wonder if the op just miscounted.  in any case it sure looks like
a serial printer cable with the flow control mostly looped back..


> Willard
> --
> Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
> ?-- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Fri Aug 28 16:00:25 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:00:25 -0600
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 01:18:43AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:

> using pin 11 for flow control isn't that strange on a serial printer,
> there are several models that do this.

Huh.  I've never (successfully) used a non-Tandy serial printer with
my CoCo.

>  pin 18 I have never seen used on a printer, but 19 is sometimes,
> and especially with it tied to pin 11 i wonder if the op just
> miscounted.  

Interesting.  Nothing in any of the various docs I've got around say
anything about those lines.  Cool, I just learned something!

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From t.fadden at cox.net  Fri Aug 28 16:32:05 2009
From: t.fadden at cox.net (t.fadden at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:32:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
Message-ID: <27718228.26652.1251491525458.JavaMail.t.fadden@127.0.0.1>

I have used a Star Micronics XB2410 color printer, an Apple LWSelect 310 
lazer, another generic lazer printer, and  Microline 92.  Mostly from 
OS9. With both a parallel port, and a serial to parallel adapter, and 
the generic lazer had a serial port.  I used to use a combination of the 
color printer for color pages, and the lazer for the B/W to publish a 
newsletter for a Color Computer club that used to be in Phoenix, AZ.


On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:00 PM , Willard Goosey wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 01:18:43AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>
>> using pin 11 for flow control isn't that strange on a serial printer,
>> there are several models that do this.
>
> Huh.  I've never (successfully) used a non-Tandy serial printer with
> my CoCo.
>
>>  pin 18 I have never seen used on a printer, but 19 is sometimes,
>> and especially with it tied to pin 11 i wonder if the op just
>> miscounted.
>
> Interesting.  Nothing in any of the various docs I've got around say
> anything about those lines.  Cool, I just learned something!
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>   -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From badfrog at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:52:10 2009
From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:52:10 -0500
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <9efa17da0908281652y6e5d0e6ex8a49364184eab7d6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Willard Goosey<goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 01:18:43AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>
>> using pin 11 for flow control isn't that strange on a serial printer,
>> there are several models that do this.
>
> Huh. ?I've never (successfully) used a non-Tandy serial printer with
> my CoCo.

I used an Epson LX-800 for years with no problems.  Had to have a
switchbox type device to convert the serial to parallel, but it worked
great for years.  I think it cost about $50 for the switchbox.  Then
again, I guess that means it doesn't count as a serial printer.


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Fri Aug 28 21:07:15 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:07:15 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>

 I've completed inputting the Coco Clipboard issues found on the Glenside
DVDs (and I uploaded them to Malted).  Vol 1, Nos 5 and 6 were not on the
DVDs.  Does anyone have those?  Also, does anyone know if Vol 3, No 4 is the
last issue?  It was the last issue of that magazine on the DVDs anyway.



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Fri Aug 28 21:37:50 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:37:50 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig><80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <ABEE66B4B8D340CD9EEE9763A9EF6AD8@Dell3Gig>

The November 1989 and December 1989 Rainbow issue ZIPs on Malted are bad.
They are located here: ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MAGS0/RAINBOW/1989/

The December 1988 rainbow ZIP is also bad.  It is located here:
ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MAGS0/RAINBOW/1988/

They need to be deleted and re-uploaded.



From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Fri Aug 28 22:49:06 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:49:06 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>

CoCo Clipboard Vol 3 No 4 is the last issue.

Vol 1 No 5 and 6 are on Malted as soon as I finish uploading them.  They are
in the INCOMING dir so will need to be moved before you can get to them...

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Fitch
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:07 PM
To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes

 I've completed inputting the Coco Clipboard issues found on the Glenside
DVDs (and I uploaded them to Malted).  Vol 1, Nos 5 and 6 were not on the
DVDs.  Does anyone have those?  Also, does anyone know if Vol 3, No 4 is the
last issue?  It was the last issue of that magazine on the DVDs anyway.


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release Date: 08/28/09
18:10:00




From cyberpunk at prtc.net  Fri Aug 28 23:36:00 2009
From: cyberpunk at prtc.net (RJLCyberPunk)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:36:00 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the account of
	one disgruntled member!
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
Message-ID: <986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>

Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very disgruntled 
member there and as a result he announced he would be leaving the CoCo 
Community all together! I hereby want to say that that member in no way, 
shape or form represents the opinion or wishes of any of all the other 
members of our beloved CoCo community and I hope & pray that Mr Bjork 
doesn't leave us on the account of just this one individual. 



From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 00:33:31 2009
From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] corrupt file on maltedmedia FTP and a question
Message-ID: <59373.6272.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The file hc9-85.pdf in the FTP section of maltedmedia.com appears to be too short, and is corrupt. (comes in at 17,332,228 bytes all the rest located in that folder are about 8-10x that size.) It's in the hotcoco folder.

Also, is the work on this series still going on? (don't see Aug '83 or any '84, and we have a bad Sept '85)

-Later!  ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting.


      


From mechacoco at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 01:18:41 2009
From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:18:41 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the
	account of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
Message-ID: <5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/28/09, RJLCyberPunk wrote:
> Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very disgruntled
> member there and as a result he announced he would be leaving the CoCo
> Community all together! I hereby want to say that that member in no way,
> shape or form represents the opinion or wishes of any of all the other
> members of our beloved CoCo community and I hope & pray that Mr Bjork
> doesn't leave us on the account of just this one individual.
>
> --


I read those forum posts and didn't understand why he reacted so
dramatically to a few rude criticisms from one individual.  I have
seen many other comments on that forum and on this list showing that
most of us in the community hold him in high regard.

He has already changed the home page of his web site (coco4.com) to
say that the project is now dead due to this issue.

Let's hope that things cool down and he changes his mind about leaving.

Darren


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug 29 06:17:23 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:17:23 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on theaccount
	of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig><80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig><028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com><986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>

I could see where Steve was coming from.  On the one hand, why post to a
site that seems to "have it in" for him.  A lot of time and effort can go
into properly responding to a question, and then to see that effort "wasted"
when the post evaporates can be very upsetting.  Not that I think Roger has
anything to do with it beyond having too much on his plate and not being
sufficiently god-like in his troubleshooting ability to figure out why some
posts just won't show up.

Steves initial point was valid.  Until the site was "fixed", why post on it?

Then the other guy, who had like 38 posts total, got into a snit over it.
Its like a guy with 7 twitter posts getting into a chest thumping argument
with a novelist.  They are not in the same league.

Did Steve over-react?, probably.  But I don't know what is going on in his
life right now.  Hopefully time will allow everyone a chance to get some
perspective.   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Darren A
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:19 AM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the 
> communiity on theaccount of one disgruntled member!
> 
> On 8/28/09, RJLCyberPunk wrote:
> > Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very 
> > disgruntled member there and as a result he announced he would be 
> > leaving the CoCo Community all together! I hereby want to say that 
> > that member in no way, shape or form represents the opinion 
> or wishes 
> > of any of all the other members of our beloved CoCo community and I 
> > hope & pray that Mr Bjork doesn't leave us on the account 
> of just this one individual.
> >
> > --
> 
> 
> I read those forum posts and didn't understand why he reacted 
> so dramatically to a few rude criticisms from one individual. 
>  I have seen many other comments on that forum and on this 
> list showing that most of us in the community hold him in high regard.
> 
> He has already changed the home page of his web site 
> (coco4.com) to say that the project is now dead due to this issue.
> 
> Let's hope that things cool down and he changes his mind 
> about leaving.
> 
> Darren
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug 29 06:58:27 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:58:27 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
Message-ID: <654D6942751244178260BCAFE9C9EA62@Dell3Gig>

I appreciate that Tom.  If you could let us know when you have done that, I
'll know when to start looking for them.  Thanks. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Tom Seagrove
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:49 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
> CoCo Clipboard Vol 3 No 4 is the last issue.
> 
> Vol 1 No 5 and 6 are on Malted as soon as I finish uploading 
> them.  They are in the INCOMING dir so will need to be moved 
> before you can get to them...
> 
> Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:07 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
>  I've completed inputting the Coco Clipboard issues found on 
> the Glenside DVDs (and I uploaded them to Malted).  Vol 1, 
> Nos 5 and 6 were not on the DVDs.  Does anyone have those?  
> Also, does anyone know if Vol 3, No 4 is the last issue?  It 
> was the last issue of that magazine on the DVDs anyway.
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release 
> Date: 08/28/09 18:10:00
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From stinger30au at yahoo.com.au  Sat Aug 29 08:02:06 2009
From: stinger30au at yahoo.com.au (stinger30au)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:02:06 -0000
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] hot coco scanning
Message-ID: <h7b5bu+g9fk@eGroups.com>

with regards to the hot coco scanning

i have stopped scanning them for one reason

i have no more to scan

there is another fellow aussie i know who does have the entire set and has mentioned to me he wishes to scan the remainder in to pdf





From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net  Sat Aug 29 08:07:35 2009
From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:07:35 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on theaccount
 of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig><80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig><028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com><986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <4A991A07.2000902@worldnet.att.net>

Paul Fitch wrote:
> I could see where Steve was coming from.  On the one hand, why post to a
> site that seems to "have it in" for him.  A lot of time and effort can go
> into properly responding to a question, and then to see that effort "wasted"
> when the post evaporates can be very upsetting.  Not that I think Roger has
> anything to do with it beyond having too much on his plate and not being
> sufficiently god-like in his troubleshooting ability to figure out why some
> posts just won't show up.
> 
> Steves initial point was valid.  Until the site was "fixed", why post on it?
> 
 ><snip>

This is over-exaggeration in the extreme. Consider the length of time 
that Roger's site has been up and running against the number of hacks.

There aren't any legitimate posts that evaporate as soon as they are 
posted and nothing is wasted if the missing message was read during the 
time it was posted. Heck, most sites remove old posts to an archive 
section after about a year.

The real question is why does anyone post on these sites. If it is done 
to help others or receive help, then whether a site is hacked and 
messages lost is irrelevant. You just post the answer/question again.


From tjseagrove at writeme.com  Sat Aug 29 09:01:11 2009
From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:01:11 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <654D6942751244178260BCAFE9C9EA62@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig><FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<654D6942751244178260BCAFE9C9EA62@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <029b01ca28a8$c8d046b0$5a70d410$@com>

Start looking..

-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Fitch
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:58 AM
To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes

I appreciate that Tom.  If you could let us know when you have done that, I
'll know when to start looking for them.  Thanks. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Tom Seagrove
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:49 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
> CoCo Clipboard Vol 3 No 4 is the last issue.
> 
> Vol 1 No 5 and 6 are on Malted as soon as I finish uploading 
> them.  They are in the INCOMING dir so will need to be moved 
> before you can get to them...
> 
> Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fitch
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:07 PM
> To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
> 
>  I've completed inputting the Coco Clipboard issues found on 
> the Glenside DVDs (and I uploaded them to Malted).  Vol 1, 
> Nos 5 and 6 were not on the DVDs.  Does anyone have those?  
> Also, does anyone know if Vol 3, No 4 is the last issue?  It 
> was the last issue of that magazine on the DVDs anyway.
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release 
> Date: 08/28/09 18:10:00
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2320 - Release Date: 08/28/09
18:10:00



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 14:23:55 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the
	account of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On 8/28/09, RJLCyberPunk wrote:
> Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very disgruntled
> member there and as a result he announced he would be leaving the CoCo
> Community all together!

On 8/28/09, Darren A wrote:
> I read those forum posts and didn't understand why he reacted so
> dramatically to a few rude criticisms from one individual.

I have known the name Steve BJork since I began using a CoCo 2 back in 1988. While I have never met the man face-to-face, I've always held a deep respect for him because of his dedication to the Color Computer community. I think is it sad that the attacks on the website resulted in all those lost posts, and even more sad that the loss of those messages, and everything else related to that loss (ie. the musings of one poster, the inability(?) of the admin to restore previous posts, loss of more recent posts, etc.) has resulted in the loss of one of the most valuable resources the CoCo community has.

I hope that Steve will reconsider, and at least continue to be involved with the rest of us. I, for one, will miss his presence if he does not.

Wayne


      


From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 14:35:51 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <819002.43249.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have been wondering if anyone has any of the issues of the OSK'er magazine. I have found pdf's of Issue 1, Issue 6, and a partial of Issue 5. Back when the OSK'er was being published, Alan Sheltra was doing the artwork and page layout. I wrote an article named "The OS-9 Basic Technical Reference". As I recall, Alan told me it was published in one of the issues of OSK'er, but memory is tricky and I'm not certain it was ever actually published. He did, however, send me a copy of the version of the document as it looked when it was formatted in the word processor he used (on a Mac). I still have that printout, and I have re-typed most of it into my computer. I don't currently have a scanner, so scanning is out of the question. Anyway, as I have been retyping it, I have continued with its development, since it was never "finished". It was intended to be a complete reference, published in sections in the OSK'er.

I am rewriting it also, because of the number of typos, format and layout mistakes in the printout, and to add more content to the document.

Wayne



      


From farna at att.net  Sat Aug 29 14:36:59 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable
Message-ID: <4A99754B.2050708@att.net>

The very first printer I had was a surplus IBM PCjr thermal serial printer. Different serial printers want different signals for flow control sometimes, IIRC. There were a couple different ways to wire a 25 pin serial connector on the printer end. All I remember is there were about three lines that had to be tied together so the CoCo could control flow to the printer correctly. Some printers needed all three, some would work with only one. I'm sure there's something about that in "Tandy's Little Wonder". 

--------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:00:25 -0600
From: Willard Goosey <goosey at virgo.sdc.org>


Huh.  I've never (successfully) used a non-Tandy serial printer with
my CoCo.


-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From adit at nationsdial.com  Sat Aug 29 15:40:39 2009
From: adit at nationsdial.com (Dean Leiber)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <819002.43249.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<819002.43249.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93479D7F-95C7-4DBA-B118-FE9C4378A876@nationsdial.com>


On Aug 29, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Wayne Campbell wrote:

> I have been wondering if anyone has any of the issues of the OSK'er  
> magazine. I have found pdf's of Issue 1, Issue 6, and a partial of  
> Issue 5. Back when the OSK'er was being published, Alan Sheltra was  
> doing the artwork and page layout. I wrote an article named "The  
> OS-9 Basic Technical Reference". As I recall, Alan told me it was  
> published in one of the issues of OSK'er, but memory is tricky and  
> I'm not certain it was ever actually published.

Wayne, all the OSKers  (6 issues total) have been scanned and  
bookmarked and my cursory examination (rummaging through the TOC)  
didn't find it in the OSKer. Perhaps it was in the OS-9 Underground?  
So far in the OS-9 Underground I found the following authored/co- 
authored by you:

V1 N9 (Sep 93) - ConvB
V1 N7 (??? 93) - What a Dump!
V1 N1 (Jun 92) - Doing the Split
V2 N2 (????   ) - Checks (p1 of 4)

The vast majority of the OS-9 Underground have not been scanned since  
I don't believe even Alan Sheltra has a complete set anymore. So, if  
anyone out there has any of the OS-9 Undergrounds, please contact me!


Dean


From neilsmorr at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 15:48:43 2009
From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:48:43 -0700
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] hot coco scanning
In-Reply-To: <h7b5bu+g9fk@eGroups.com>
References: <h7b5bu+g9fk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <93f331ac0908291248n23997b67t6a3600ba51efa8b8@mail.gmail.com>

I'm doing something with regard to Softside magazine, although that's
Model I only.

I do have many scanned - just need to find the files !!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Softside/

Neil

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:02 AM, stinger30au<stinger30au at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> with regards to the hot coco scanning
>
> i have stopped scanning them for one reason
>
> i have no more to scan
>
> there is another fellow aussie i know who does have the entire set and has
> mentioned to me he wishes to scan the remainder in to pdf


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 29 16:04:49 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:04:49 -0600
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <27718228.26652.1251491525458.JavaMail.t.fadden@127.0.0.1>
References: <27718228.26652.1251491525458.JavaMail.t.fadden@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20090829200449.GA25121@virgo.sdc.org>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 04:32:05PM -0400, t.fadden at cox.net wrote:
> I have used a Star Micronics XB2410 color printer, an Apple LWSelect 310 
[...]
> newsletter for a Color Computer club that used to be in Phoenix, AZ.

I bow to your supperior experience. 

I really wish Tandy had used a standard DB-25 for the serial port. 

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sat Aug 29 16:14:26 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:14:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A99754B.2050708@att.net>
References: <4A99754B.2050708@att.net>
Message-ID: <20090829201426.GB25121@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 02:36:59PM -0400, Frank Swygert wrote:
> The very first printer I had was a surplus IBM PCjr thermal serial printer. 

That was exactly the printer I tried (and failed) to connect to my
CoCo.

It finally got trashed, which is a damn shame, because I could really
use a CoCo printer which doesn't use unobtanium printer ribbons.

> Different serial printers want different signals for flow control 
> sometimes, IIRC. There were a couple different ways to wire a 25 pin serial 
> connector on the printer end. 

Not that the thermal printer had a DB-25.  16-pin (I think) ribbon
cable header connector.  And the fool at Radio Shack swore up and down
that he couldn't get a male connector to match it.  

Of course, it would have helped if I'd been able to get the simple
notion that "RD is used as DSR by Coco printer drivers" through my
thick head.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From georgeramsower at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:00:26 2009
From: georgeramsower at gmail.com (George Ramsower)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:00:26 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable(My very first printer)
References: <4A99754B.2050708@att.net> <20090829201426.GB25121@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <005901ca28f4$1e6d47d0$6401a8c0@OLDGEORGE>

 My first computer was a grey case, 4K coco.

 I don't remember the year but, my very first printer was a teletype machine.

 It had a keyboard and a paper tape, recorder/player.

 Noisy darned thing would also act as a device to aggrevate my wife to the point that she said "Lose it or make it quieter".
 I had to put it in a hall closet and line the closet with blankets to make it acceptable to her.

 It did not do a line feed on a carriage return. I added a solenoid, capacitor and a micro-switch to make it do a line feed.
 
 Finally, DAK Industries sold a Dry Ink Jet printer from Olivetti that replaced it. I think it was a PR1200.

 A long, long time ago in a place far, far away.

George


From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug 29 18:27:14 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:27:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <jf2e95hboqb6kub6hhheq0n24qavpi5rtd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <855646114.5367911251584834456.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "Stephen Castello" <zootzoot at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC), wdg3rd at comcast.net had a
> flock of green cheek conures squawk out:
> 
> >----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
> >> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer.
> I
> >> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL
> >
> >As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware
> base as the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of
> a DIN connector and probably a different ROM.
> >-- 
> >Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net
> 
> My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.

The DMP-105 was the successor to the LP-VII with a white case instead of Mercedes silver.  To the best of my knowledge, that was the only change.  Just as slow and noisy and just as crappy print.  (A dot-matrix impact printer with only one pin is sort of limited from the start).
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net


From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug 29 19:05:51 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:05:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] hot coco scanning
In-Reply-To: <552157208.5373581251586789998.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <817366498.5375781251587151469.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

----- "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm doing something with regard to Softside magazine, although that's
> Model I only.
> 
> I do have many scanned - just need to find the files !!
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Softside/

Softside was never "Model I only".  From the start it was multi-platform.  Mod 1/3, Atari, Apple, Pet.  I learned a lot translating from one BASIC to another and/or reading parallel listings (actually, it really pissed me off when they split it into separate editions for the various machines, but that's probably why they went titsup within a year of that change, as each machine was too small a market).

I translated quite a few Softside listings to the Color Computer.  Those tapes are long lost.  "Three removes equal one fire"  -- Poor Richard
-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Aug 29 19:10:52 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on theaccount
 of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829180013.0693ead0@coco3.com>

At 05:17 AM 8/29/2009, you wrote:
>I could see where Steve was coming from.  On the one hand, why post to a
>site that seems to "have it in" for him.  A lot of time and effort can go
>into properly responding to a question, and then to see that effort "wasted"
>when the post evaporates can be very upsetting.  Not that I think Roger has
>anything to do with it beyond having too much on his plate and not being
>sufficiently god-like in his troubleshooting ability to figure out why some
>posts just won't show up.
>
>Steves initial point was valid.  Until the site was "fixed", why post on it?

This is old news, but I must say that all forums are hackable 
eventually, and there is no "fixed".  No matter what CMS or forum 
system I research, I see hundreds of google'ed complaints about how a 
user can fix the spam problem, etc.  We live in a cruel world.  It'll 
be a cat and dog fight until the day we die.



>Then the other guy, who had like 38 posts total, got into a snit over it.
>Its like a guy with 7 twitter posts getting into a chest thumping argument
>with a novelist.  They are not in the same league.
>
>Did Steve over-react?, probably.  But I don't know what is going on in his
>life right now.  Hopefully time will allow everyone a chance to get some
>perspective.

The good part is that I have seen Steve's and other user's (who were 
hacked) posts in the database, although not linked to their message 
IDs.  It's a relational database.  I'd have to find a well-known 
trustee among us or elsewhere to volunteer to repair the forum 
database, linking all "missing" posts back to their 
headers/topics.  I'm not sure I can do it.

This leads to another question: can the old (very populated) Invision 
Power Board forums of coco3.com be restored and merged into the 
current forum somehow, even if read-only or channeled to another subforum.

An Invision Power Board + phpBB2 + MySQL + PHP expert would have to 
do these jobs.

I long for the day we have XML-based forum content, or some other 
generic format that can be interchanged more easily.  A LOT is lost 
when hacks like this happen with there being no speedy recovery.

I'm building an unrelated site right now which uses Joomla and if it 
survives some time without being spammed or hacked, I'll trust it to 
be a good candidate for the new coco3.com framework.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From wdg3rd at comcast.net  Sat Aug 29 19:13:27 2009
From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:13:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <897663411.5377411251587595163.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1106908347.5377451251587607461.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


----- "Willard Goosey" <goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 04:32:05PM -0400, t.fadden at cox.net wrote:
> > I have used a Star Micronics XB2410 color printer, an Apple LWSelect
> 310 
> [...]
> > newsletter for a Color Computer club that used to be in Phoenix,
> AZ.
> 
> I bow to your supperior experience. 
> 
> I really wish Tandy had used a standard DB-25 for the serial port. 

I really wish IBM used something other than a DB-25 for their parallel port.  Caused me no end of grief (doing retail tech support for Tandy).  (And after -- DWP-II+IBM parallel cable+AT&T 6300 DB-25 Video)

-- 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd at comcast.net


From operator at coco3.com  Sat Aug 29 19:28:04 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:28:04 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on theaccount
 of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <4A991A07.2000902@worldnet.att.net>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<572C4B630E1A4BAD97162DEBA8DFE87A@Dell3Gig>
	<4A991A07.2000902@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829181642.0693f280@coco3.com>

At 07:07 AM 8/29/2009, you wrote:
>Paul Fitch wrote:
>>I could see where Steve was coming from.  On the one hand, why post to a
>>site that seems to "have it in" for him.  A lot of time and effort can go
>>into properly responding to a question, and then to see that effort "wasted"
>>when the post evaporates can be very upsetting.  Not that I think Roger has
>>anything to do with it beyond having too much on his plate and not being
>>sufficiently god-like in his troubleshooting ability to figure out why some
>>posts just won't show up.
>>Steves initial point was valid.  Until the site was "fixed", why post on it?
> ><snip>



>This is over-exaggeration in the extreme. Consider the length of 
>time that Roger's site has been up and running against the number of hacks.

True.  We've been up longer than any other CoCo community site, as 
far as I know.  I'm not sure I heard this many complaints back when 
the original biggie CoCo site went down without notice.  Everybody 
contributed megs of personal messages and content to that site, and 
then one day.. nothing.  The admin was unreachable and probably still is.

And what about Jim Davis ?  He just completely vanished.  Years ago I 
tried to buy his whole software line he was peddling poorly and his 
response was this and only this:  "Not interested."  end of 
e-mail.  Now where is all that SunDog stuff?  Where is Jim?  Not that 
I have time for it Now, but back then I did.

For me it's been a challenge keeping the site up since, what... 
2000?, starting out as a simple tower of banners called the "CoCoNut 
Directory" then progressing per visitor request.  If coco3.com makes 
it 10 years online without being rendered "another dead CoCo site", 
I'll be one happy fella, and everyone else should be as well.  :)



-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From operator at coco3.com  Sat Aug 29 19:31:03 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:31:03 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on the
 account of one disgruntled member!
In-Reply-To: <142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net>
	<3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<028301ca2853$49752110$dc5f6330$@com>
	<986217B5DA7D4B79BBAE819D127066C5@FANTASYWARE>
	<5d802cd0908282218n2a7d86f8w42141d88014752a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<142373.40053.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829182831.0693f7a0@coco3.com>

At 01:23 PM 8/29/2009, you wrote:
>On 8/28/09, RJLCyberPunk wrote:
> > Back at CoCo3.com Mr Bjork had a bitter dispute with a very disgruntled
> > member there and as a result he announced he would be leaving the CoCo
> > Community all together!
>
>On 8/28/09, Darren A wrote:
> > I read those forum posts and didn't understand why he reacted so
> > dramatically to a few rude criticisms from one individual.
>
>I have known the name Steve BJork since I began using a CoCo 2 back 
>in 1988. While I have never met the man face-to-face, I've always 
>held a deep respect for him because of his dedication to the Color 
>Computer community. I think is it sad that the attacks on the 
>website resulted in all those lost posts, and even more sad that the 
>loss of those messages, and everything else related to that loss 
>(ie. the musings of one poster, the inability(?) of the admin to 
>restore previous posts, loss of more recent posts, etc.) has 
>resulted in the loss of one of the most valuable resources the CoCo 
>community has.
>
>I hope that Steve will reconsider, and at least continue to be 
>involved with the rest of us. I, for one, will miss his presence if 
>he does not.
>
>Wayne



Wayne, I have faith that Steve Bjork "ain't goin' anywhere".  He came 
back after all these years which proves that the CoCo is embedded in 
us forever.  He's not far.. many of us take breaks or get burned out 
from time to time, but once a CoCoNut, always a CoCoNut.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From asa.rand at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 19:49:37 2009
From: asa.rand at yahoo.com (Wayne Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Magazines and Indexes
In-Reply-To: <93479D7F-95C7-4DBA-B118-FE9C4378A876@nationsdial.com>
References: <4A761BB1.8070104@att.net><3F145E85E43846ACBA84AEBE14B7B724@Dell3Gig>
	<80433EAC5BD74963866B3D63668A255E@Dell3Gig>
	<FAC9DA43B8B74E73BDF15C78541503C7@Dell3Gig>
	<819002.43249.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<93479D7F-95C7-4DBA-B118-FE9C4378A876@nationsdial.com>
Message-ID: <991165.66049.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dean Leiber wrote:>Wayne, all the OSKers  (6 issues total) have been scanned
> and
bookmarked and my cursory examination (rummaging through the TOC)
> didn't find it in the OSKer. Perhaps it was in the OS-9 Underground?

Thanks for the quick response, Dean. :)

Maybe that was it. I had totally forgotten about those other articles. LOL Please let me know if you run across the reference article. That copy's importance is in that it is the original. The new copy I'm making will be more complete, and will be in pdf form. I am using Word to compose the document.

I haven't made a final decision yet, but since I was never able to finish my comparisons between Basic09 and Microware Basic, I am considering putting everything related to the OSK version in an appendix, separate from the rest of the document, and making the focus of the reference OS-9 Level 1 and Level II Basic09. Maybe someday I'll find the time to explore OSK Basic further.

Wayne


      


From random_rodder at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 19:53:34 2009
From: random_rodder at yahoo.com (Brian Blake)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:53:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Mr Bjork please don't leave the communiity on theaccount
	of one disgruntled member!
Message-ID: <968912.15218.qm@web43144.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I really wasn't going to respond to this thread. I think the whole situation is juvinile (yes I'm using that word again). The person who hacked the site acted in a juvinile manner when he hacked it. Many of the complaints after coco3.com was partially restored were juvinile. Anyone, myself included, who could have thought for a second that the forum should have been restored overnight was either sorely mistaken or just didn't have anything better to do. 

I may be wrong about this, I do believe I was the first to notice the damage, at least to my account. I think I might have had 100 posts that are gone. I look at it more like RG does. Okay, the posts are gone, if I have questions I'll ask again. I'm not going to hold Roger accountable in any way for what happened or how ever long it takes to restore the forum. The man does this in his spare time for the group, and no one should complain. 

Finally, insulting people on a classic computer forum is juvinile. If someone really makes you so upset you have to insult them you obviously have much deeper problems. Some may take that last statement as an insult; it's not meant to be. Just an observation from 40 years on the blue planet (no I don't fall into the over 50 category either)

Brian. 

Sent from Brian's iPhone

On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:

At 05:17 AM 8/29/2009, you wrote:
I could see where Steve was coming from.  On the one hand, why post to a
site that seems to "have it in" for him.  A lot of time and effort can go
into properly responding to a question, and then to see that effort "wasted"
when the post evaporates can be very upsetting.  Not that I think Roger has
anything to do with it beyond having too much on his plate and not being
sufficiently god-like in his troubleshooting ability to figure out why some
posts just won't show up.

Steves initial point was valid.  Until the site was "fixed", why post on it?

This is old news, but I must say that all forums are hackable eventually, and there is no "fixed".  No matter what CMS or forum system I research, I see hundreds of google'ed complaints about how a user can fix the spam problem, etc.  We live in a cruel world.  It'll be a cat and dog fight until the day we die.



Then the other guy, who had like 38 posts total, got into a snit over it.
Its like a guy with 7 twitter posts getting into a chest thumping argument
with a novelist.  They are not in the same league.

Did Steve over-react?, probably.  But I don't know what is going on in his
life right now.  Hopefully time will allow everyone a chance to get some
perspective.

The good part is that I have seen Steve's and other user's (who were hacked) posts in the database, although not linked to their message IDs.  It's a relational database.  I'd have to find a well-known trustee among us or elsewhere to volunteer to repair the forum database, linking all "missing" posts back to their headers/topics.  I'm not sure I can do it.

This leads to another question: can the old (very populated) Invision Power Board forums of coco3.com be restored and merged into the current forum somehow, even if read-only or channeled to another subforum.

An Invision Power Board + phpBB2 + MySQL + PHP expert would have to do these jobs.

I long for the day we have XML-based forum content, or some other generic format that can be interchanged more easily.  A LOT is lost when hacks like this happen with there being no speedy recovery.

I'm building an unrelated site right now which uses Joomla and if it survives some time without being spammed or hacked, I'll trust it to be a good candidate for the new coco3.com framework.


-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco



      



From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Sat Aug 29 20:45:58 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:45:58 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <855646114.5367911251584834456.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <855646114.5367911251584834456.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200908292045.59050.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Saturday 29 August 2009, wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
>----- "Stephen Castello" <zootzoot at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC), wdg3rd at comcast.net had a
>>
>> flock of green cheek conures squawk out:
>> >----- "Wayne Campbell" <asa.rand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> I had a gorilla banana. That's the printer I used to print out the
>> >> source code to DCom. It worked very well for a dot-matrix printer.
>>
>> I
>>
>> >> bookmarked the page so I can show it to people who disbelieve. LOL
>> >
>> >As I recall, the Gorilla Banana was essentially the same hardware
>>
>> base as the Radio Shack Line Printer VII, but with a DB-25 instead of
>> a DIN connector and probably a different ROM.
>>
>> My dad had DMP-105, it looked just like the gorilla banana.
>
>The DMP-105 was the successor to the LP-VII with a white case instead of
> Mercedes silver.  To the best of my knowledge, that was the only change. 
> Just as slow and noisy and just as crappy print.  (A dot-matrix impact
> printer with only one pin is sort of limited from the start).

Huh?  I've had several DMP-105's over the years, and I have never seen a 
DMP-105 that didn't have a 9 pin head.  I have even rebuilt several of them 
due to broken pins, but that head re-assembly is a cast iron female dog.  
With just a little wear in the guide, its almost impossible to keep the 
correct pin in the correct guide location, so it prints gibberish.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

PLEASE DON'T SMOKE HERE!

Penalty: An early, lingering death from cancer,
	 emphysema, or other smoking-caused ailment.


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:08:59 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:08:59 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908291808p6ec841fck307cc1da4b28f807@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Willard Goosey<goosey at virgo.sdc.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 01:18:43AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>
>> using pin 11 for flow control isn't that strange on a serial printer,
>> there are several models that do this.
>
> Huh. ?I've never (successfully) used a non-Tandy serial printer with
> my CoCo.
>
>> ?pin 18 I have never seen used on a printer, but 19 is sometimes,
>> and especially with it tied to pin 11 i wonder if the op just
>> miscounted.
>
> Interesting. ?Nothing in any of the various docs I've got around say
> anything about those lines. ?Cool, I just learned something!
>

Pin 11 is the first "unassigned" pin in EIA standard rs-232-c.
perhaps this is why several companies used it for things a bit outside
of the rs-232 standard.   Printers from several manufacturers (GE,
Texas Instruments, DEC, Tektronix, etc)  used pin 11 for "secondary
request to send".   Others used it for Busy, Ready, Alarm type
signals: mostly some sort of flow control.

Pin 19 is defined in the standard as secondary request to send, which
makes you wonder why so many used pin 11 for this.  However, some of
those same devices did use pin 19 for 2nd clear to send.  Maybe there
was some confusion when the standards were being created, or maybe 2nd
rts/cts is "seen" from the opposite end?  I really don't know.  The
important thing is that it isn't uncommon to see pin 11 tied to 19 to
null out the secondary rts/cts just like you see pin 4 and 5 tied to
null rts/cts.

Pin 18 is weird though. I really can't find *anything* async that used
18, even among the models that used 11 for non standard stuff.  If you
ever do find out what that cable was for, I'd be interested to know
who used pin 18.

-Aaron


From tlindner at macmess.org  Sat Aug 29 23:05:25 2009
From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:05:25 -0700
Subject: [Coco] September 1982: Done
Message-ID: <1j587ow.tbpi0n1fkjb28M%tlindner@macmess.org>

Well, we did another one!

The CoCoMag project (meaning everyone involved) has compleated another
issue. To see the result of the work go here:

<http://cocomag.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/show_magazine.pl?magazine=TheRainbow&
issue=820203>

To help with the next issue go here:

<http://cocomag.dyndns.org/TheRainbow.shtml>

Thanks to everyone involved.

-- 
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org                                              Bright



From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 30 00:11:56 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>

Jorge Machin just sent me a link to his YouTube video showing a game 
he is working on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-NiaxW4siw

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From os9dude at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:57:53 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:57:53 -0400
Subject: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com>

Jorge is a software developer in M?xico. Besides dedicating time to the
usual Windoze fare, he is also one of the very few active CoCo users
there. He maintains a blog (in Spanish - run it through Google's translation
services). The first part of the wireless based CoCo game is here:
http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2227

The second part, with a program listing now is at:

http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2404


-- Rogelio


On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Roger Taylor <operator at coco3.com> wrote:

> Jorge Machin just sent me a link to his YouTube video showing a game he is
> working on.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-NiaxW4siw
>
> --
> Roger Taylor
>


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 03:47:46 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:47:46 -0400
Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <855646114.5367911251584834456.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <855646114.5367911251584834456.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4A9A2EA2.7010509@gmail.com>

wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
> The DMP-105 was the successor to the LP-VII with a white case instead of Mercedes silver.  To the best of my knowledge, that was the only change.  Just as slow and noisy and just as crappy print.  (A dot-matrix impact printer with only one pin is sort of limited from the start).
>   

Allow me to have my say in this incredibly popular thread!

The DMP printer that was the same as the Line Printer VII was the 
DMP-100, not the 105. I know, 'cause I bought a second-hand one in 1986 
or so, and it was crappy as hell. I remember writing at least three 
BASIC programs to get the most out of it. One of them was a graphics 
screen dumper. The second one would allow me to print the accented 
characters we use in French, because this dinosaur only supported the 
plain ASCII character set. IIRC, I would print a line of text without 
the accents, send a carriage return without a line feed, switch to 
graphics mode, and then add the accents over the letters that needed 
them in a second pass. Then I would revert to text mode, send a line 
feed, and repeat the process for the next line. Yes, printing time was 
doubled, so if you, English-speaking folks, think it was slow, just 
imagine how sluggish it was for me! The third program I wrote for this 
clunker would use the graphics mode for all text printing. I wrote it 
after I discovered (by myself) the HPRINT bitmap font in the CoCo 3 ROM, 
which had descenders and (almost all) accented characters. I was so 
excited when I discovered that font... and I immediately saw the 
opportunity to use it with the printer.

I was 15, and had plenty of time, but no money. Those were the times...

Christian



From os9dude at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:57:36 2009
From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:57:36 -0400
Subject: [Coco] DMP printers, WAS --> Coco serial cable
Message-ID: <5631e580908300557s75a36e33gcbcbf3c3a486498f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>wrote:

> wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> The DMP-105 was the successor to the LP-VII with a white case instead of
>> Mercedes silver.  To the best of my knowledge, that was the only change.
>>  Just as slow and noisy and just as crappy print.  (A dot-matrix impact
>> printer with only one pin is sort of limited from the start).
>>
>>
>
> Allow me to have my say in this incredibly popular thread!
>
> The DMP printer that was the same as the Line Printer VII was the DMP-100,
> not the 105. I know, 'cause I bought a second-hand one in 1986 or so, and it
> was crappy as hell. I remember writing at least three BASIC programs to get
> the most out of it. One of them was a graphics screen dumper. The second one
> would allow me to print the accented characters we use in French, because
> this dinosaur only supported the plain ASCII character set. IIRC, I would
> print a line of text without the accents, send a carriage return without a
> line feed, switch to graphics mode, and then add the accents over the
> letters that needed them in a second pass. Then I would revert to text mode,
> send a line feed, and repeat the process for the next line. Yes, printing
> time was doubled, so if you, English-speaking folks, think it was slow, just
> imagine how sluggish it was for me! The third program I wrote for this
> clunker would use the graphics mode for all text printing. I wrote it after
> I discovered (by myself) the HPRINT bitmap font in the CoCo 3 ROM, which had
> descenders and (almost all) accented characters. I was so excited when I
> discovered that font... and I immediately saw the opportunity to use it with
> the printer.
>
> I was 15, and had plenty of time, but no money. Those were the times...
>
> Christian


Back in the early 80s my school's fledging Computer Lab had 6 TRS-80
machines (four Model IIIs and two Model I's - the later the only ones with
floppy drives, rest was tape based). To service the printing needs only four
machines had LPVIIs.

The school was so negligent for that department that the last thing they
cared for was the replacement of the ink ribbons, at one time it got so bad
that we started to use double layered paper with a carbon sheet in between -
we would discard the faint almost impossible to read original and keep the
copy. Our requests for new ribbons went ignored more or less, and once the
admins got hold of our carbon copy workaround they thought they should care
even less.

We revolted. It only took one surreptitious ribbon re-inking that involved
the ink straight out of a BIC pen to make the school pay attention to the
evil doings of the lab admins. The affected LPVII had to be sent to the
local Radio Shack for "repairs", the price tag was that of many ink ribbons.
Soon after we started to see a steady stream of replacement ribbons appear
on those LPVIIs.

The things were noisy as hell, and slow, and no descenders - walking into
the lab in the middle of a printing frenzy was a memorable event. A couple
years after all of them had been phased out: the DMP-105 and DMP-106 showed
up in the RS catalog and the school bought a slew of them for the general
use workstations which now included IBM PC compatibles... the days of the
TRS-80s had passed.

I bought a DMP-106a for my CoCo 3 setup in 1988, it wasn't something I'd
call a high end piece of equipment but it endured all the homework,
newsletters, banners and other jobs I threw at it. I still have it and it is
in very good working condition.

An LPVII (or its DMP100 white clad offspring) seen on a thrift shelve? I
would pass.


-- Rogelio

-- Rogelio


From linville at tuxdriver.com  Sun Aug 30 08:57:34 2009
From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:57:34 -0400
Subject: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
In-Reply-To: <5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
	<5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090830125733.GA689@tuxdriver.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:57:53AM -0400, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> Jorge is a software developer in M?xico. Besides dedicating time to the
> usual Windoze fare, he is also one of the very few active CoCo users
> there. He maintains a blog (in Spanish - run it through Google's translation
> services). The first part of the wireless based CoCo game is here:
> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2227
> 
> The second part, with a program listing now is at:
> 
> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2404

Hey, that's cool -- bienvenidos amigos!

John
-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.


From tpreitzel at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:39:40 2009
From: tpreitzel at hotmail.com (TP Reitzel)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:39:40 +0000
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
Message-ID: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>


I've been away from this list for awhile so excuse me if this question has been asked recently.

If Perl hasn't been ported already to OS/9, is Perl capable of being ported to the OS/9 on the CoCo? 

TIA


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009

From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 15:44:52 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:44:52 -0600
Subject: [Coco] non-standard ports was Re: [Color Computer] Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <1106908347.5377451251587607461.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <897663411.5377411251587595163.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<1106908347.5377451251587607461.JavaMail.root@sz0113a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20090830194451.GA24646@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:13:27PM +0000, wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:
> 
> I really wish IBM used something other than a DB-25 for their
> parallel port.  Caused me no end of grief (doing retail tech support
> for Tandy).  (And after -- DWP-II+IBM parallel cable+AT&T 6300 DB-25
> Video)

Oh yes, indeed.  I've got 3 computers that have real, proper
centronics ports.  Very nice.

(Except for their habit of frying IBM printers, but that's not their
fault.)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 15:53:54 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:53:54 -0600
Subject: [Coco] serial ports and printers, oh my was Re:Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908291808p6ec841fck307cc1da4b28f807@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908291808p6ec841fck307cc1da4b28f807@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090830195354.GB24646@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 09:08:59PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> Pin 19 is defined in the standard as secondary request to send, which
> makes you wonder why so many used pin 11 for this. 

The way I understand the RS-232C standard, is that there's two ports
on one DB-25 connector, and pin 19 is rts for the second port.

Not that I've ever seen a DB-25 wired like that.  The closest I've
ever seen is one of my terminals puts a current loop on some of those
pins.

Still, it's something to keep in mind.  I never know when what weird
computer hardware will end up in my doorstep.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 16:03:24 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:03:24 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 02:39:40PM +0000, TP Reitzel wrote:

> If Perl hasn't been ported already to OS/9, is Perl capable of being
> ported to the OS/9 on the CoCo?

As far as I know, no one's tried (or said anything if they have,
anyway).  

But off the top of my head, I seriously doubt that could be easily
done.  

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:21:43 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:21:43 -0500
Subject: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
In-Reply-To: <20090830125733.GA689@tuxdriver.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
	<5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090830125733.GA689@tuxdriver.com>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W22695D3ED4DEF55A1523D3E5F30@phx.gbl>


?Gracias!

The reason why I'm doing this game is because when I was a kid always dreamed to connect two Cocos, but here in Mexico I couldn't find  a moderm or a RS-232 Pak. I tryed with the Coco's serial interface and with two cassette players cables with little success. In 1989, my father bought a Tandy 1000 SL and I sold my Coco 3 to buy more hardware ( maybe a hard disk, I can't remember now). The Tandy 1000 SL was faster and GW Basic was OK for me, but I was really shocked with the inability of MS-DOS to do multiprocessing and I regretted to selling it for a while. Obviosly, the time passed and I could connect two PCs with a null modem and played "Doom" with my friends using ethernet cards in 1994. In 2001 I did a multiplayer backgammon game in Java for a mexican portal.

Finally, two years ago I bought severals Cocos in ebay and started to have fun with the Tandy's little marvel again. I'm making my dream comes true thanks to Roger Taylor's Deluxe Wireless RS-232 Pak. The real magic is in his hardware.

More than making an elaborated multiplayer game, I want to do a proof of concept.

Jorge Machin

> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:57:34 -0400
> From: linville at tuxdriver.com
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
> 
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:57:53AM -0400, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> > Jorge is a software developer in M?xico. Besides dedicating time to the
> > usual Windoze fare, he is also one of the very few active CoCo users
> > there. He maintains a blog (in Spanish - run it through Google's translation
> > services). The first part of the wireless based CoCo game is here:
> > http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2227
> > 
> > The second part, with a program listing now is at:
> > 
> > http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2404
> 
> Hey, that's cool -- bienvenidos amigos!
> 
> John
> -- 
> John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

_________________________________________________________________
More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/

From t.fadden at cox.net  Sun Aug 30 16:22:49 2009
From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:22:49 -0700
Subject: [Coco] serial ports and printers, oh my was Re:Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <20090830195354.GB24646@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>	<20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>	<e44ad6640908291808p6ec841fck307cc1da4b28f807@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090830195354.GB24646@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <4A9ADF99.6080001@cox.net>

Willard Goosey wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 09:08:59PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>   
>> Pin 19 is defined in the standard as secondary request to send, which
>> makes you wonder why so many used pin 11 for this. 
>>     
>
> The way I understand the RS-232C standard, is that there's two ports
> on one DB-25 connector, and pin 19 is rts for the second port.
>
> Not that I've ever seen a DB-25 wired like that.  The closest I've
> ever seen is one of my terminals puts a current loop on some of those
> pins.
>
> Still, it's something to keep in mind.  I never know when what weird
> computer hardware will end up in my doorstep.
>
> Willard
>   
Some Sun Microsystems machines use a single db25 that has two rs232 
ports on it, just as you speak.  They make a splitter y cable to use 
both of them. Or if you connect a cable directly you get one port.

Tim Fadden


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 16:28:56 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:28:56 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Boisy:  I found TOK
Message-ID: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>

A long time ago, I was looking for an OS-9 utility called TOK that Boisy
wrote.  He couldn't seem to find it, and asked me to let him know if I
dug it out of a backup or whatever.

We're both silly.  It (and egrep) are in
www.rtsi.com/OS9/OS9_6X09/APPS/Texttools.lzh

I think the archive is just the binaries, though.  No source, so if he
really managed to loose the source, it's just gone. :-(

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 16:45:18 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:45:18 -0600
Subject: [Coco] serial ports and printers, oh my was Re:Coco serial cable
In-Reply-To: <4A9ADF99.6080001@cox.net>
References: <4A95DF66.5374.29A5833A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<20090828040544.GA3228@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908272218n5dc10edxcc4ad4609136fae2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090828200025.GA20169@virgo.sdc.org>
	<e44ad6640908291808p6ec841fck307cc1da4b28f807@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090830195354.GB24646@virgo.sdc.org> <4A9ADF99.6080001@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20090830204518.GA27849@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 01:22:49PM -0700, Tim Fadden wrote:
> Some Sun Microsystems machines use a single db25 that has two rs232 
> ports on it, just as you speak.  They make a splitter y cable to use 
> both of them. Or if you connect a cable directly you get one port.

Cool!  I didn't know that!

<looks things up...>

My limited Sun hardware reference doesn't seem to indicate if my 4/110
has a serial port like this or not.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 30 16:50:41 2009
From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:50:41 +0100
Subject: [Coco] Boisy:  I found TOK
In-Reply-To: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <4A9AE621.1090009@aurigae.demon.co.uk>

Willard Goosey wrote:
> A long time ago, I was looking for an OS-9 utility called TOK that Boisy
> wrote.  He couldn't seem to find it, and asked me to let him know if I
> dug it out of a backup or whatever.
> 
> We're both silly.  It (and egrep) are in
> www.rtsi.com/OS9/OS9_6X09/APPS/Texttools.lzh
> 
> I think the archive is just the binaries, though.  No source, so if he
> really managed to loose the source, it's just gone. :-(

Assuming it was written in assembler.....isn't that what disassemblers 
are for ???

:) :) :)

Phill.

-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 16:50:48 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:50:48 -0600
Subject: [Coco] curses update
Message-ID: <20090830205048.GA28459@virgo.sdc.org>

I decided the easiest way to fix the problems arrising from stdscr not
being a proper WINDOW * was to make it a proper WINDOW *.

Since then I've been chasing wierd crashes.  

Anyone want to help with this?  I get distracted and discouraged. :-(

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Sun Aug 30 17:00:06 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:00:06 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Boisy:  I found TOK
In-Reply-To: <4A9AE621.1090009@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
References: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A9AE621.1090009@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090830210006.GB28459@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 09:50:41PM +0100, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:

> Assuming it was written in assembler.....isn't that what disassemblers 
> are for ???

Well, see, that's where it gets complicated.  Boisy thought that TOK
was the C version of BAWK (Boisy's AWK).  It's my impression that when
he moved his real work off OS-9 (a traumatic thing to do, but most of
us survived doing it) he missed BAWK, so wrote a C version (TOK) and
then back-ported to it the coco.

He could find neither a binary or his source for TOK.  Or at least
that's what he told me. ;-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net  Sun Aug 30 17:36:52 2009
From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve Bjork)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:36:52 -0700
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A9AF0F4.3070607@bjork-huffman.net>

Perl is a modern programming language that has grown to use (and need) 
the power of 32/64 CPU.

Perl on most computers modern computer 75 MB or more.  As a Perl 
programmer, I use it on PC, Mac and Linux (web server) but could never 
see running on a CoCo.

There is very good reason why I had programmed to the metal for the CoCo 
(aka Assembly), there was not much of a computer to get the job done.

Today's computer are 5,000 times faster and 8,000 times more ram!  That 
why can do some much more today than with systems built 30 years ago.

The bottom line, if you want to use modern software (and programming 
languages) than use a modern computer.

Steve (Zaxxon) Bjork

TP Reitzel wrote:
> I've been away from this list for awhile so excuse me if this question has been asked recently.
>
> If Perl hasn't been ported already to OS/9, is Perl capable of being ported to the OS/9 on the CoCo? 
>
> TIA
>   



From snhirsch at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:58:02 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:58:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <4A9AF0F4.3070607@bjork-huffman.net>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<4A9AF0F4.3070607@bjork-huffman.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908301955200.22297@duo>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Steve Bjork wrote:

> Perl is a modern programming language that has grown to use (and need) the 
> power of 32/64 CPU.
>
> Perl on most computers modern computer 75 MB or more.  As a Perl programmer, 
> I use it on PC, Mac and Linux (web server) but could never see running on a 
> CoCo.

The smallest machine I'm aware of that had a working Perl port is probably 
the AT&T 7300 (aka Unix PC).  And that was an early version of Perl 4.


-- 


From pfitchjr at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 30 20:48:52 2009
From: pfitchjr at bellsouth.net (Paul Fitch)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:48:52 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908301955200.22297@duo>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl><4A9AF0F4.3070607@bjork-huffman.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908301955200.22297@duo>
Message-ID: <EBDE20EF3C7249D0A845AD2871DBB6D6@Dell3Gig>

[Ignorance Detection mode OFF] 

Isn'r PERL just a series of english like words strung together in a
predesignated fashion which are then fed to preprocessors and compilers and
such?  Resulting in some sort of binary that can instruct the computer to
perform a series of instructions?

I'd think you COULD port PERL to the Coco, but that's doesn't address the
speed issue or the fact that 30 year old microprocessors just don't contain
the onboard resources we take for granted today.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com 
> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Steven Hirsch
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:58 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
> 
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Steve Bjork wrote:
> 
> > Perl is a modern programming language that has grown to use 
> (and need) 
> > the power of 32/64 CPU.
> >
> > Perl on most computers modern computer 75 MB or more.  As a Perl 
> > programmer, I use it on PC, Mac and Linux (web server) but 
> could never 
> > see running on a CoCo.
> 
> The smallest machine I'm aware of that had a working Perl 
> port is probably the AT&T 7300 (aka Unix PC).  And that was 
> an early version of Perl 4.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 21:31:16 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:31:16 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <EBDE20EF3C7249D0A845AD2871DBB6D6@Dell3Gig>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<4A9AF0F4.3070607@bjork-huffman.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908301955200.22297@duo>
	<EBDE20EF3C7249D0A845AD2871DBB6D6@Dell3Gig>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908301831u6a425ebct37911e3afd8c0028@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Paul Fitch<pfitchjr at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> [Ignorance Detection mode OFF]
>
> Isn'r PERL just a series of english like words strung together in a
> predesignated fashion which are then fed to preprocessors and compilers and
> such? ?Resulting in some sort of binary that can instruct the computer to
> perform a series of instructions?
>

Not really, perl is an interpreted language like BASIC.
Unfortunately, a modern version of the interpreter alone is over 1MB
in size on disk.  A quick ps shows that merely starting the
interpreter requires 3MB (on one linux system at least), and there are
probably some shared libs it is using as well.  almost any perl
program is going to call some perl libraries on top of that.  I don't
think running perl on a coco is a realistic goal.

However, I'd bet there is a way to do whatever the OP wanted to do
with perl, using coco native tools.
-Aaron



> I'd think you COULD port PERL to the Coco, but that's doesn't address the
> speed issue or the fact that 30 year old microprocessors just don't contain
> the onboard resources we take for granted today.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com
>> [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Steven Hirsch
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:58 PM
>> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Steve Bjork wrote:
>>
>> > Perl is a modern programming language that has grown to use
>> (and need)
>> > the power of 32/64 CPU.
>> >
>> > Perl on most computers modern computer 75 MB or more. ?As a Perl
>> > programmer, I use it on PC, Mac and Linux (web server) but
>> could never
>> > see running on a CoCo.
>>
>> The smallest machine I'm aware of that had a working Perl
>> port is probably the AT&T 7300 (aka Unix PC). ?And that was
>> an early version of Perl 4.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From boisy at tee-boy.com  Sun Aug 30 21:59:08 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:59:08 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Boisy:  I found TOK
In-Reply-To: <20090830210006.GB28459@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A9AE621.1090009@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<20090830210006.GB28459@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <D8AC1CC3-FA0C-4CAD-8BD6-33AA6A50381A@tee-boy.com>

Willard,

Good find!  I'll download the archive and check it out.

I checked and I have source for BAWK, but TOK came after and had more  
features.  After the assembly version, I  wrote a C version which I  
still have.

Do you want/need the TOK C source?  I'll be happy to send it to you.

Boisy

On Aug 30, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 09:50:41PM +0100, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
>
>> Assuming it was written in assembler.....isn't that what  
>> disassemblers
>> are for ???
>
> Well, see, that's where it gets complicated.  Boisy thought that TOK
> was the C version of BAWK (Boisy's AWK).  It's my impression that when
> he moved his real work off OS-9 (a traumatic thing to do, but most of
> us survived doing it) he missed BAWK, so wrote a C version (TOK) and
> then back-ported to it the coco.
>
> He could find neither a binary or his source for TOK.  Or at least
> that's what he told me. ;-)
>
> Willard
> -- 
> Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>  -- R.E. Howard
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From farna at att.net  Sun Aug 30 22:07:52 2009
From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:07:52 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable (printers)
Message-ID: <4A9B3078.9000506@att.net>

I didn't know the LP VIII and DMP-100 only had one pin.... one line of a 7-9 dot tall character at a time... man, that WOULD be SLOW!!! The DMP-105/106 were seven pin printers IIRC. Standard was a nine pin by then, but RS had to save some money somewhere!! I'm being sarcastic of course... you could by a Star or Gorilla 9 pin for little more than a DMP-105 or 106. Then you had to cobble your own serial cable (or buy one) or get a serial/parallel converter, whereas the 105/106 had the nice little round connector for the CoCo serial cable. 

-----------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:47:46 -0400
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>

wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote:

> > The DMP-105 was the successor to the LP-VII with a white case instead of Mercedes silver.  To the best of my knowledge, that was the only change.  Just as slow and noisy and just as crappy print.  (A dot-matrix impact printer with only one pin is sort of limited from the start).
> >   
>   

Allow me to have my say in this incredibly popular thread!

The DMP printer that was the same as the Line Printer VII was the 
DMP-100, not the 105. I know, 'cause I bought a second-hand one in 1986 
or so, and it was crappy as hell. I remember writing at least three 

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)



From operator at coco3.com  Sun Aug 30 23:18:56 2009
From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:18:56 -0500
Subject: [Coco] OS-9 port by Mike Naberezny
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090830221712.062be5a0@coco3.com>

I'm not sure if anybody knows this cat but in a recent e-mail he 
mentioned the following:

...

In 1984, TPUG (Toronto PET Users Group) ported OS-9 Level I to the 
Commodore SuperPET.  After being "lost" for many years, even to TPUG 
members, I spent a couple of months trying to resurrect it.  One TPUG 
member had some photos of the hardware, another had the disks.  I was 
able to reverse engineer it, build new hardware 
(http://mikenaberezny.com/projects/superos9), and bring up the OS-9 
system on my SuperPET.  I'm hoping to help other SuperPET owners do the same.

I managed to download and run some OS-9 programs from the RTSI 
archive. However, those few programs are all that I have.  I suspect 
that many OS-9 programs for CoCo (before OS-9 Level II) will run as 
well.  That's my interest in your CoCo archive DVD.

...

Regards,
Mike

-- 
Roger Taylor

http://www.americafedup.com



From devries.bob at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 23:42:04 2009
From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:42:04 +1000
Subject: [Coco] OS-9 port by Mike Naberezny
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090830221712.062be5a0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <004b01ca29ed$040d7820$6501a8c0@aceraspire>

Roger,

It would pay mike to look into the original OS9 User group disc set, which I 
believe are up on Maltedmedia. Almost all of those are for Level I, and are 
not specific to the coco, and a lot have source code.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Taylor" <operator at coco3.com>
To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:18 PM
Subject: [Coco] OS-9 port by Mike Naberezny


> I'm not sure if anybody knows this cat but in a recent e-mail he mentioned 
> the following:
>
> ...
>
> In 1984, TPUG (Toronto PET Users Group) ported OS-9 Level I to the 
> Commodore SuperPET.  After being "lost" for many years, even to TPUG 
> members, I spent a couple of months trying to resurrect it.  One TPUG 
> member had some photos of the hardware, another had the disks.  I was able 
> to reverse engineer it, build new hardware 
> (http://mikenaberezny.com/projects/superos9), and bring up the OS-9 system 
> on my SuperPET.  I'm hoping to help other SuperPET owners do the same.
>
> I managed to download and run some OS-9 programs from the RTSI archive. 
> However, those few programs are all that I have.  I suspect that many OS-9 
> programs for CoCo (before OS-9 Level II) will run as well.  That's my 
> interest in your CoCo archive DVD.
>
> ...
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -- 
> Roger Taylor
>
> http://www.americafedup.com
>
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco 



From tpreitzel at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 01:48:29 2009
From: tpreitzel at hotmail.com (TP Reitzel)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:48:29 +0000
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>



Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)

I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as the CoCo.  I want this computer language to have scripting and functional programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6 (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua,  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev .  Maybe, this discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable future. TIA

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 02:13:08 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:13:08 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908302313t18cef7cfge2a63167536e3282@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:48 AM, TP Reitzel<tpreitzel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)
>
> I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as the CoCo. ?I want this computer language to have scripting and functional programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6 (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua, ?https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev . ?Maybe, this discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable future. TIA
>

And I want a pony...

Seriously, your requirements are just not realistic.  Unless you have
the time to learn an appropriate language for the platform you are
targeting, your results will not be very good.  Better to use your
limited time for a more limited, obtainable goal.

Good luck
-Aaron




> _________________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>


From gene.heskett at verizon.net  Mon Aug 31 02:21:42 2009
From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:21:42 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>

On Monday 31 August 2009, TP Reitzel wrote:
>Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)
>
>I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's
> potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as
> the CoCo.  I want this computer language to have scripting and functional
> programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6
> (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were
> available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been
> started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua, 

> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev 

According to Firefox-3.5, their ssl certificate is bogus, so I backed out.

> .  Maybe, this
> discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer
> architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older
> architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now
> and into the foreseeable future. TIA

Then I think, since you asked about scripting, that something in the way of 
an expansion of the os9 shell needs to be done.  However, even that is 
written in assembly AFAIK.  It does need help, there are many things bash can 
do that shell can't.  Were I needing such as you've outlined, I think I'd 
start with assembly, and build shell up to what you think you can use.  But I 
think I'd stop when it got up to about 14k in size.  System memory is in 
relatively short supply even on my 2 megabyte of ram coco3 and that would 
exacerbate the problem I believe.

OTOH, I just checked bash here, on a 32 bit F10 box.  Its quite large:

[root at coyote doc]# ls -l /bin/bash
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 756360 2008-12-15 06:04 /bin/bash

No way that could be shrunk enough to work on the coco even if built on an 8 
bit machine.

>_________________________________________________________________
>With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
>http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
>
>--
>Coco mailing list
>Coco at maltedmedia.com
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>

Delay is preferable to error.
		-- Thomas Jefferson


From lost at l-w.ca  Mon Aug 31 02:34:20 2009
From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:34:20 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4A9B6EEC.2090904@l-w.ca>

I'm not replying directly to Gene. His post was just a convenient one to 
jump in on.

Gene Heskett wrote:
> OTOH, I just checked bash here, on a 32 bit F10 box.  Its quite large:
> 
> [root at coyote doc]# ls -l /bin/bash
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 756360 2008-12-15 06:04 /bin/bash
> 
> No way that could be shrunk enough to work on the coco even if built on an 8 
> bit machine.

And that doesn't even include the C library which is probably three or 
four times that size.

As Gene and others have pointed out, it is impossible to run a modern 
language with modern features on a coco unless it is compiled. Even 
then, it would take a very efficient compiler to get even a simple 
program to fit in memory.

To pick on perl specifically, the actual way perl works will require a 
substantial chunk of memory just to hold the run-time symbol table. 
Throw in the hash variables and so on, and you very quickly run out of 
space, even for a trivial script. On top of that, the perl language is 
complex. You have to have a complete regular expression implementation, 
32 bit math, and a massive stack of standard functions. To further 
complicate things, it is simply impossible to do dynamic perl module 
loading so most CPAN-type things won't work.

About the only way I can see something as powerful as perl even remotely 
working is if the runtime environment supports overlays (portions of the 
executable loaded into memory upon demand which may get kicked out by 
the next overlay loaded). And every time you hit an overlay, you take a 
*massive* performance hit.

Bash is not nearly as complex as perl but it still won't fit in the 
memory space of the coco with full capabilities.

Now before anyone else pipes up and says "but what about an embedded 
version of X", most embedded systems these days are 32 bit! That means 
even if something is pared down for an embedded system, it still not 
going to be pared down to anything that would run in a 64K address space!

-- 
William Astle
lost at l-w.ca


From tpreitzel at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:15:22 2009
From: tpreitzel at hotmail.com (TP Reitzel)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:15:22 +0000
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <4A9B6EEC.2090904@l-w.ca>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <4A9B6EEC.2090904@l-w.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W196A7043D5EB26B5B952F8B2F20@phx.gbl>



William -

Some of the developers of eLua were tossing around the idea of support from 8-bit up. True, most embedded systems today are 32 bit. We'll see.


_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 06:52:56 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:52:56 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Java on the CoCo (was Perl PL for OS/9)
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A9BAB88.1090807@gmail.com>

It would be technically feasible to port the NanoVM Java virtual machine 
to the CoCo, but I doubt you would have time to do that since you only 
have time to learn one language.

Anyway, for those interested in this VM, here's what I found. Originally 
written for the AVR (ATMega) family of microcontrollers, NanoVM was has 
been ported to the 6502, so it could certainly be ported to the 6809. 
The VM itself is written in C and occupies 8kB of ROM space on the AVR 
platform (don't how much space on the 6502). It's just a VM though; you 
don't get the standard Java class libraries, but you get OOP and 
automatic garbage collection, which are two nice features I'd really 
like to have in a language that the CoCo could run. In addition, 
bytecode-compiled programs are very compact.

But how fast would it be on a CoCo 3? I'd be happy if it was as fast as 
interpreted BASIC.

I've just sent a message to the guy who ported it to the 6502 because I 
can't find the archive he once made publicly available. If he sends it 
to me, I will try  NanoVM on my C64 and report the results to this list. 
I wanna see how "fast" it runs on a 1-MHz 6502. I guess we could double 
that performance on a 1.8-MHz 6809.

Christian


TP Reitzel wrote:
> Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)
>
> I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as the CoCo.  I want this computer language to have scripting and functional programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6 (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua,  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev .  Maybe, this discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable future. TIA
>
>   



From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 07:29:37 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:29:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>

I spent some time this weekend playing with my new RGB-to-VGA
Converter from Roy Justus.
It really makes using the CoCo more enjoyable.  I never owned a proper
monitor even back when the coco was my only computer, so finally using
80 column text is truly a dream come true :)   Highly recommended to
anyone that doesn't have a decent display.  Maybe now I'll make some
progress on my goal of using the drivewire as a serial port under os9.
-Aaron


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 07:48:45 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, TP Reitzel wrote:

> I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable 
> future. TIA

Alan Turing established that there IS only one language for computing 
machinery.  The rest is all syntax variations :-).

Seriously if you spend some of that valuable time studying the formalisms 
of computer science you'll quickly realize that languages all look much 
the same at a certain level.

<editorial>

This is why I'm so amused when I see HR-authored job descriptions that 
stress "N years of experience in Turbo-Foobar, Java, you-name-it" rather 
than simply looking for those with a grounding in the principles of 
computation and language translators.

If you learn Perl, you'll hopefully be able to find work as a Perl 
programmer.  If you learn the fundamentals (including study of 
non-traditional syntax variations like, e.g. LISP, Forth, etc.) you should 
be able to function in almost any environment after a short ramp-up.

</editorial>

Steve


-- 


From snhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 07:54:28 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:

> I spent some time this weekend playing with my new RGB-to-VGA Converter 
> from Roy Justus. It really makes using the CoCo more enjoyable.  I never 
> owned a proper monitor even back when the coco was my only computer, so 
> finally using 80 column text is truly a dream come true :)  Highly 
> recommended to anyone that doesn't have a decent display.

I rolled my own solution for displaying CoCo video on a modern LCD display 
and I agree completely - a great improvement in the viewing experience.

And, as soon as Mark gets the PS2 keyboard adapter firmware done we'll 
have an equivalent improvement in the typing experience <hint, hint> :-) 
:-).

Steve



-- 


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 08:13:09 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:13:09 -0400
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>
References: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>
Message-ID: <4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>

Steven Hirsch wrote:
>
> I rolled my own solution for displaying CoCo video on a modern LCD 
> display and I agree completely - a great improvement in the viewing 
> experience.

Could you provide us with some details?

Thanks,

Christian


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 09:23:11 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:23:11 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Steven Hirsch<snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, TP Reitzel wrote:
>
>> I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable
>> future. TIA
>
> Alan Turing established that there IS only one language for computing
> machinery. ?The rest is all syntax variations :-).
>
> Seriously if you spend some of that valuable time studying the formalisms of
> computer science you'll quickly realize that languages all look much the
> same at a certain level.
>
> <editorial>
>
> This is why I'm so amused when I see HR-authored job descriptions that
> stress "N years of experience in Turbo-Foobar, Java, you-name-it" rather
> than simply looking for those with a grounding in the principles of
> computation and language translators.
>
> If you learn Perl, you'll hopefully be able to find work as a Perl
> programmer. ?If you learn the fundamentals (including study of
> non-traditional syntax variations like, e.g. LISP, Forth, etc.) you should
> be able to function in almost any environment after a short ramp-up.
>
> </editorial>

I've got mixed feelings about that.  Yes, a programmer who is well
versed in fundamental concepts is always better than one who is not.
However, modern programming environments are much more complex than
the ones taught when I was in school.  The difference between c,
pascal, and fortan are minor compared to Java vs asp.net vs lamp, etc.
 Mastery of these environments takes much more than an understanding
of core concepts, mainly because a modern programmer is going to use a
lot of complicated libraries all with their own nuances.  Knowing the
strengths and weaknesses of all the various parts (and how to use
these in real world situations) takes time and real world experience.
The ideal candidate will have both strong fundamental skills *and*
language specific experience :)


From aawolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 09:23:11 2009
From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:23:11 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
Message-ID: <e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Steven Hirsch<snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, TP Reitzel wrote:
>
>> I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable
>> future. TIA
>
> Alan Turing established that there IS only one language for computing
> machinery. ?The rest is all syntax variations :-).
>
> Seriously if you spend some of that valuable time studying the formalisms of
> computer science you'll quickly realize that languages all look much the
> same at a certain level.
>
> <editorial>
>
> This is why I'm so amused when I see HR-authored job descriptions that
> stress "N years of experience in Turbo-Foobar, Java, you-name-it" rather
> than simply looking for those with a grounding in the principles of
> computation and language translators.
>
> If you learn Perl, you'll hopefully be able to find work as a Perl
> programmer. ?If you learn the fundamentals (including study of
> non-traditional syntax variations like, e.g. LISP, Forth, etc.) you should
> be able to function in almost any environment after a short ramp-up.
>
> </editorial>

I've got mixed feelings about that.  Yes, a programmer who is well
versed in fundamental concepts is always better than one who is not.
However, modern programming environments are much more complex than
the ones taught when I was in school.  The difference between c,
pascal, and fortan are minor compared to Java vs asp.net vs lamp, etc.
 Mastery of these environments takes much more than an understanding
of core concepts, mainly because a modern programmer is going to use a
lot of complicated libraries all with their own nuances.  Knowing the
strengths and weaknesses of all the various parts (and how to use
these in real world situations) takes time and real world experience.
The ideal candidate will have both strong fundamental skills *and*
language specific experience :)


From skwirl42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 09:43:47 2009
From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:43:47 -0300
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
	<e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c56cbd30908310643r2ed1eb75y182c4ab7ba2230e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Aaron Wolfe<aawolfe at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got mixed feelings about that. ?Yes, a programmer who is well
> versed in fundamental concepts is always better than one who is not.
> However, modern programming environments are much more complex than
> the ones taught when I was in school.

And finding one that works from 8-bits up to modern machines is a lot
to ask. Maybe Forth? Not an expert on it, by any means, but since it's
an easy language to interpret, it works on just about any machine.

-- 
James Dessart
<http://ideaoubliette.blogspot.com/>


From jcewy at swbell.net  Mon Aug 31 09:45:56 2009
From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:45:56 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A9BD414.5030906@swbell.net>

TP Reitzel wrote:
> I've been away from this list for awhile so excuse me if this question has been asked recently.
>
> If Perl hasn't been ported already to OS/9, is Perl capable of being ported to the OS/9 on the CoCo? 
>
> TIA
>
>   

Actually, there was a port of Perl 4 to OS-9/68K.  A binary (but no 
source) was posted to one of the FTP sites back in the day (mid-'90s I 
think).  Not CoCo of course.  It's possible I have a copy somewhere on 
an MM/1 disk.  There was also Lua for OS-9/68K.

JCE

> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook.
> http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
>   



From wschaub at steubentech.com  Mon Aug 31 10:10:10 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:10:10 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A9BD9C2.5010209@steubentech.com>

TP Reitzel wrote:
> Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)
>
> I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as the CoCo.  I want this computer language to have scripting and functional programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6 (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua,  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev .  Maybe, this discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable future. TIA
>
>   
Doesn't sound very realistic to me. the closest thing you will find that 
is here right now is C. i think there are at least 2 C compilers around 
for the coco one in OS-9 and one that runs on a PC and cross compiles 
machine code for the coco.

Perl is a great language but even under a full featured UNIX system I 
still have to use other languages (mainly C  and a bit of shell scripting)

Even Perl itself it implemented using C unless I got things totally 
wrong I'm getting the impression that you only want to learn one 
language period.  It's far better to know at least a few languages. the 
good thing is that once you have learned one language it is easy to 
learn enough about a different language to be useful rather quickly.




From wschaub at steubentech.com  Mon Aug 31 10:14:37 2009
From: wschaub at steubentech.com (William Schaub)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:14:37 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4A9BDACD.1090101@steubentech.com>

Gene Heskett wrote:
>> discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer
>> architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older
>> architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now
>> and into the foreseeable future. TIA
>>     
> . Maybe, this
>
> Then I think, since you asked about scripting, that something in the way of 
> an expansion of the os9 shell needs to be done.  However, even that is 
> written in assembly AFAIK.  It does need help, there are many things bash can 
> do that shell can't.  Were I needing such as you've outlined, I think I'd 
> start with assembly, and build shell up to what you think you can use.  But I 
> think I'd stop when it got up to about 14k in size.  System memory is in 
> relatively short supply even on my 2 megabyte of ram coco3 and that would 
> exacerbate the problem I believe.
>
> OTOH, I just checked bash here, on a 32 bit F10 box.  Its quite large:
>
> [root at coyote doc]# ls -l /bin/bash
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 756360 2008-12-15 06:04 /bin/bash
>
> No way that could be shrunk enough to work on the coco even if built on an 8 
> bit machine.
>
>   
bash is a big bloated mess. however I bet you could get the original 
Version 7 UNIX shell to work. the original sources are still available 
The PDP-11 didn't have a whole lot of ram to work with either (although 
it was still a heck of a lot nicer than a coco for sure)








From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 31 12:20:58 2009
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bill Cousert)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Coco] Java on the CoCo (was Perl PL for OS/9)
In-Reply-To: <4A9BAB88.1090807@gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<4A9BAB88.1090807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191023.29739.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does this help?


-----begin quote----
Hi,

I successfully ported the NanoVM (www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/) to the
cc65 toolchain (www.cc65.org).

It's a very minimalistic Java implementation written in portable C.
The binary built with cc65 is only 16kB.

The NanoVM source is available via anonymous CVS access at
SourceForge.net (sourceforge.net/projects/nanovm/).

To allow you easy access I created a zip file
(www.jantzer-schmidt.de/nanovm-cc65.zip) containing:

1. The tool necessary to convert .class files into an .nvm file to be
loaded by the NanoVM in case you want to create your own Java
programs.

2. An Apple2 .dsk image file containing the NanoVM binary together
with some samples. Type 'EXEC <TXT File> to run one of the sample Java
programs.

3. A C64 .d64 image file containing the NanoVM binary together with
some samples. Type 'RUN:REM <NVM File> to run one of the sample Java
programs.

The source of the sample Java programs can be viewed  via CVS
repository browsing
(nanovm.cvs.sourceforge.net/nanovm/nanovm/java/examples/).

Best, Oliver

----end quote---




________________________________
From: Christian Lesage <hyperfrog at gmail.com>
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:52:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] Java on the CoCo (was Perl PL for OS/9)

It would be technically feasible to port the NanoVM Java virtual machine to the CoCo, but I doubt you would have time to do that since you only have time to learn one language.

Anyway, for those interested in this VM, here's what I found. Originally written for the AVR (ATMega) family of microcontrollers, NanoVM was has been ported to the 6502, so it could certainly be ported to the 6809. The VM itself is written in C and occupies 8kB of ROM space on the AVR platform (don't how much space on the 6502). It's just a VM though; you don't get the standard Java class libraries, but you get OOP and automatic garbage collection, which are two nice features I'd really like to have in a language that the CoCo could run. In addition, bytecode-compiled programs are very compact.

But how fast would it be on a CoCo 3? I'd be happy if it was as fast as interpreted BASIC.

I've just sent a message to the guy who ported it to the 6502 because I can't find the archive he once made publicly available. If he sends it to me, I will try  NanoVM on my C64 and report the results to this list. I wanna see how "fast" it runs on a 1-MHz 6502. I guess we could double that performance on a 1.8-MHz 6809.

Christian


TP Reitzel wrote:
> Here's the bottom line. I'm busy. Aren't we all? ;)
> 
> I want to learn ONE programming language with modern features that's potentially capable of running on older 8-bit/16-bit architectures such as the CoCo.  I want this computer language to have scripting and functional programming features as well as traditional procedural capability. Perl6 (Rakudo on Parrot or Mildew) is one option if an embedded version were available. Personally, I also like Lua. Fortunately, a project has been started by developers working on an embedded version of Lua,  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev .  Maybe, this discussion should be generalized to include modern compilers on newer architectures generating intermediate/assembly code for older architectures as well. However, I ONLY have time to learn ONE language now and into the foreseeable future. TIA
> 
>  


--
Coco mailing list
Coco at maltedmedia.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


From hyperfrog at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:23:22 2009
From: hyperfrog at gmail.com (Christian Lesage)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:23:22 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Java on the CoCo (was Perl PL for OS/9)
In-Reply-To: <191023.29739.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>	<4A9BAB88.1090807@gmail.com>
	<191023.29739.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BF8FA.8080009@gmail.com>

It would help if the file were still available for download! ;) Since it 
isn't, I wrote to Oliver Schmidt, and hopefully, he'll provide me with it.


Bill Cousert wrote:
> Does this help?
>
>
> -----begin quote----
> Hi,
>
> I successfully ported the NanoVM (www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/) to the
> cc65 toolchain (www.cc65.org).
>
> It's a very minimalistic Java implementation written in portable C.
> The binary built with cc65 is only 16kB.
>
> The NanoVM source is available via anonymous CVS access at
> SourceForge.net (sourceforge.net/projects/nanovm/).
>
> To allow you easy access I created a zip file
> (www.jantzer-schmidt.de/nanovm-cc65.zip) containing:
>
> 1. The tool necessary to convert .class files into an .nvm file to be
> loaded by the NanoVM in case you want to create your own Java
> programs.
>
> 2. An Apple2 .dsk image file containing the NanoVM binary together
> with some samples. Type 'EXEC <TXT File> to run one of the sample Java
> programs.
>
> 3. A C64 .d64 image file containing the NanoVM binary together with
> some samples. Type 'RUN:REM <NVM File> to run one of the sample Java
> programs.
>
> The source of the sample Java programs can be viewed  via CVS
> repository browsing
> (nanovm.cvs.sourceforge.net/nanovm/nanovm/java/examples/).
>
> Best, Oliver
>
> ----end quote---
>   



From boisy at tee-boy.com  Mon Aug 31 13:31:21 2009
From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:31:21 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Windows GUI For ToolShed
In-Reply-To: <SNT109-W22695D3ED4DEF55A1523D3E5F30@phx.gbl>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
	<5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090830125733.GA689@tuxdriver.com>
	<SNT109-W22695D3ED4DEF55A1523D3E5F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4131967E-F59E-4DFC-A601-AE49BAA00CFF@tee-boy.com>

Jorge,

Switching threads here, what is the status of your Windows GUI for  
ToolShed project?

Boisy

On Aug 30, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:

>
> ?Gracias!
>
> The reason why I'm doing this game is because when I was a kid  
> always dreamed to connect two Cocos, but here in Mexico I couldn't  
> find  a moderm or a RS-232 Pak. I tryed with the Coco's serial  
> interface and with two cassette players cables with little success.  
> In 1989, my father bought a Tandy 1000 SL and I sold my Coco 3 to  
> buy more hardware ( maybe a hard disk, I can't remember now). The  
> Tandy 1000 SL was faster and GW Basic was OK for me, but I was  
> really shocked with the inability of MS-DOS to do multiprocessing  
> and I regretted to selling it for a while. Obviosly, the time passed  
> and I could connect two PCs with a null modem and played "Doom" with  
> my friends using ethernet cards in 1994. In 2001 I did a multiplayer  
> backgammon game in Java for a mexican portal.
>
> Finally, two years ago I bought severals Cocos in ebay and started  
> to have fun with the Tandy's little marvel again. I'm making my  
> dream comes true thanks to Roger Taylor's Deluxe Wireless RS-232  
> Pak. The real magic is in his hardware.
>
> More than making an elaborated multiplayer game, I want to do a  
> proof of concept.
>
> Jorge Machin
>
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:57:34 -0400
>> From: linville at tuxdriver.com
>> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
>> Subject: Re: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:57:53AM -0400, Rogelio Perea wrote:
>>> Jorge is a software developer in M?xico. Besides dedicating time  
>>> to the
>>> usual Windoze fare, he is also one of the very few active CoCo users
>>> there. He maintains a blog (in Spanish - run it through Google's  
>>> translation
>>> services). The first part of the wireless based CoCo game is here:
>>> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2227
>>>
>>> The second part, with a program listing now is at:
>>>
>>> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2404
>>
>> Hey, that's cool -- bienvenidos amigos!
>>
>> John
>> -- 
>> John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
>> linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
>>
>> --
>> Coco mailing list
>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/
>
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

--
Boisy G. Pitre
E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/





From jorge_machin at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 15:32:42 2009
From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Coco] Windows GUI For ToolShed
In-Reply-To: <4131967E-F59E-4DFC-A601-AE49BAA00CFF@tee-boy.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829230803.06940990@coco3.com>
	<5631e580908292157m3e881bd8h5595d4ce7f6901d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090830125733.GA689@tuxdriver.com>
	<SNT109-W22695D3ED4DEF55A1523D3E5F30@phx.gbl> 
	<4131967E-F59E-4DFC-A601-AE49BAA00CFF@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W446D74E8D179B50AC13881E5F20@phx.gbl>


Hi Boisy:

I was  very busy because  I lost my job  last year , so I have to work as a freelancer.  As a freelance programmer I have few free time.

Fortunately, I started to do personal projects again.  I started with this game because it was a dream of my childhood. As you can see in these posts in my blog, I make a living doing internet games:

http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/196
http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/136
http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/155

The original idea borned when I was a child, but I couldn't realize it with the CoCo as I wished.

Today I started to program again the GUI for toolshed. The current status is:

The program works in a 75% in my linux box. I can transfer files
between .dsk, file system and flash cards. The program have  several
minor usability bugs and it is not tested in windows or mac boxes.

Thanks

Jorge Machin

> From: boisy at tee-boy.com
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:31:21 -0500
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: [Coco] Windows GUI For ToolShed
> 
> Jorge,
> 
> Switching threads here, what is the status of your Windows GUI for  
> ToolShed project?
> 
> Boisy
> 
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote:
> 
> >
> > ?Gracias!
> >
> > The reason why I'm doing this game is because when I was a kid  
> > always dreamed to connect two Cocos, but here in Mexico I couldn't  
> > find  a moderm or a RS-232 Pak. I tryed with the Coco's serial  
> > interface and with two cassette players cables with little success.  
> > In 1989, my father bought a Tandy 1000 SL and I sold my Coco 3 to  
> > buy more hardware ( maybe a hard disk, I can't remember now). The  
> > Tandy 1000 SL was faster and GW Basic was OK for me, but I was  
> > really shocked with the inability of MS-DOS to do multiprocessing  
> > and I regretted to selling it for a while. Obviosly, the time passed  
> > and I could connect two PCs with a null modem and played "Doom" with  
> > my friends using ethernet cards in 1994. In 2001 I did a multiplayer  
> > backgammon game in Java for a mexican portal.
> >
> > Finally, two years ago I bought severals Cocos in ebay and started  
> > to have fun with the Tandy's little marvel again. I'm making my  
> > dream comes true thanks to Roger Taylor's Deluxe Wireless RS-232  
> > Pak. The real magic is in his hardware.
> >
> > More than making an elaborated multiplayer game, I want to do a  
> > proof of concept.
> >
> > Jorge Machin
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:57:34 -0400
> >> From: linville at tuxdriver.com
> >> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Coco] multiplayer game using wireless pak
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:57:53AM -0400, Rogelio Perea wrote:
> >>> Jorge is a software developer in M?xico. Besides dedicating time  
> >>> to the
> >>> usual Windoze fare, he is also one of the very few active CoCo users
> >>> there. He maintains a blog (in Spanish - run it through Google's  
> >>> translation
> >>> services). The first part of the wireless based CoCo game is here:
> >>> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2227
> >>>
> >>> The second part, with a program listing now is at:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.machin.com.mx/archives/2404
> >>
> >> Hey, that's cool -- bienvenidos amigos!
> >>
> >> John
> >> -- 
> >> John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
> >> linville at tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Coco mailing list
> >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> --
> Boisy G. Pitre
> E-mail: boisy at tee-boy.com
> Web: http://www.tee-boy.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

_________________________________________________________________
Share your memories online with anyone you want.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1

From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug 31 16:05:14 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:05:14 -0600
Subject: [Coco] Boisy:  I found TOK
In-Reply-To: <D8AC1CC3-FA0C-4CAD-8BD6-33AA6A50381A@tee-boy.com>
References: <20090830202856.GA27389@virgo.sdc.org>
	<4A9AE621.1090009@aurigae.demon.co.uk>
	<20090830210006.GB28459@virgo.sdc.org>
	<D8AC1CC3-FA0C-4CAD-8BD6-33AA6A50381A@tee-boy.com>
Message-ID: <20090831200514.GA2072@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 08:59:08PM -0500, Boisy G. Pitre wrote:
> Good find!  I'll download the archive and check it out.

Thank you.  Sorry it took so long.

> Do you want/need the TOK C source?  I'll be happy to send it to you.

Sure.  Source is always good.  I don't really need it, but if you want
an extra mirror....?

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug 31 16:08:56 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:08:56 -0600
Subject: [Coco] OS-9 port by Mike Naberezny
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090830221712.062be5a0@coco3.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090830221712.062be5a0@coco3.com>
Message-ID: <20090831200856.GB2072@virgo.sdc.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:18:56PM -0500, Roger Taylor wrote:
> I'm not sure if anybody knows this cat but in a recent e-mail he 
> mentioned the following:
> 
> ...
> 
> In 1984, TPUG (Toronto PET Users Group) ported OS-9 Level I to the 
> Commodore SuperPET.  After being "lost" for many years, even to TPUG 
> members, I spent a couple of months trying to resurrect it.  One TPUG 
> member had some photos of the hardware, another had the disks.  I was 
> able to reverse engineer it, build new hardware 
> (http://mikenaberezny.com/projects/superos9), and bring up the OS-9 
> system on my SuperPET.  I'm hoping to help other SuperPET owners do the 
> same.
> 
> ...
> 
> Regards,
> Mike

Wow, that's cool.  Now I really wish I had a SuperPET!

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug 31 16:17:43 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:17:43 -0600
Subject: [Coco] ports of C stuff was Re:  Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<200908310221.42861.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090831201743.GC2072@virgo.sdc.org>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 02:21:42AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Then I think, since you asked about scripting, that something in the way of 
> an expansion of the os9 shell needs to be done.
[..]
> OTOH, I just checked bash here, on a 32 bit F10 box.  Its quite large:

> No way that could be shrunk enough to work on the coco even if built on an 8 
> bit machine.

Maybe ash could be ported?  But even that would be limited without the
set of UN*X shell utilities.

I looked into SASH at one point (stand-alone ash, aka ash with some of
the commands built-in) but lost it in a hard-drive crash.  

It would be a pretty big project for the lone hacker.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From brucewcalkins at charter.net  Mon Aug 31 16:18:52 2009
From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:18:52 -0400
Subject: [Coco] Coco serial cable (printers)
References: <4A9B3078.9000506@att.net>
Message-ID: <7EC23BFEB010470BBE0936371E6628BE@speedy>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Frank Swygert"

>I didn't know the LP VIII and DMP-100 only had one pin....

I recall that one of those printers had a star platen and one hammer.  The 
position of the platen at the time of the hammer strike determined the row 
of the dot.



Bruce W.



From snhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 17:59:41 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:59:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
In-Reply-To: <4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>
	<4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908311758580.22297@duo>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Christian Lesage wrote:

> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> 
>> I rolled my own solution for displaying CoCo video on a modern LCD display 
>> and I agree completely - a great improvement in the viewing experience.
>
> Could you provide us with some details?

I think my original posting had some hard information.  Check the list 
archives first and ping me if nothing turns up?

Steve


-- 


From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com  Mon Aug 31 18:09:26 2009
From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:09:26 -0600
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
In-Reply-To: <4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>
References: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>
	<4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC51D957-5849-4364-AB71-8137C432292D@jeanpaulsamson.com>

On Aug-31-09, at 6:13 AM, Christian Lesage wrote:
> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>
>> I rolled my own solution for displaying CoCo video on a modern LCD  
>> display and I agree completely - a great improvement in the viewing  
>> experience.
>
> Could you provide us with some details?


For anyone who's interested, I've pulled up some of the relevant  
messages...

.....

On Nov-15-08, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB  
> video from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter.   
> I'm pleased to report that it works quite well!
>
> 40-column text does not fill the display, but 80-column mode runs  
> right to the edges and looks terrific.  These little boards are  
> about $70 from the distributor and require a 12VDC wall-wart power  
> supply.  I mounted mine in a Radio Shmacked project box.
>
> FWIW, I'm using a Dell 17" LCD display.

.....

> There's not a whole lot to write up...  It's just a matter of  
> building a cable with a 10-pin ribbon cable header on one end.  If  
> you are not sharing the converter with other classic machines, you  
> just splice the other end to the header supplied with the converter  
> board.  The signals are just 1:1, connect Gnd, R, G, B, H-sync and V- 
> sync and you're good to go.  The pinout for the bottom of the CoCo 3  
> is widely available.
>
> The converter board has a PC mounted power jack for the wall-wart  
> and a female VGA connector for the monitor.  No assembly required  
> except for a box if you so choose.
>
> I have seen Roy's converter on a web page, but was not aware of it  
> when I started the project to replace all my aging/dying CRTs.   
> Also, I have the impression that it's specific for the CoCo and I  
> need something that would work with any 15Khz. analog RGB source.  I  
> did have to build a little board to convert digital RGBI from the  
> C128 to analog RGB.  It just sits between the Commodore and the Wei- 
> Ya converter (I do have to switch plugs when going from the C128 to  
> the CoCo).



From snhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 18:15:36 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:15:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
	<e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908311800230.22297@duo>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Aaron Wolfe wrote:

>> Alan Turing established that there IS only one language for computing
>> machinery. ?The rest is all syntax variations :-).
>>
>> Seriously if you spend some of that valuable time studying the formalisms of
>> computer science you'll quickly realize that languages all look much the
>> same at a certain level.
>>
>> <editorial>
>>
>> This is why I'm so amused when I see HR-authored job descriptions that
>> stress "N years of experience in Turbo-Foobar, Java, you-name-it" rather
>> than simply looking for those with a grounding in the principles of
>> computation and language translators.
>>
>> If you learn Perl, you'll hopefully be able to find work as a Perl
>> programmer. ?If you learn the fundamentals (including study of
>> non-traditional syntax variations like, e.g. LISP, Forth, etc.) you should
>> be able to function in almost any environment after a short ramp-up.
>>
>> </editorial>
>
> I've got mixed feelings about that.  Yes, a programmer who is well
> versed in fundamental concepts is always better than one who is not.
> However, modern programming environments are much more complex than
> the ones taught when I was in school.  The difference between c,
> pascal, and fortan are minor compared to Java vs asp.net vs lamp, etc.
> Mastery of these environments takes much more than an understanding
> of core concepts, mainly because a modern programmer is going to use a
> lot of complicated libraries all with their own nuances.  Knowing the
> strengths and weaknesses of all the various parts (and how to use
> these in real world situations) takes time and real world experience.
> The ideal candidate will have both strong fundamental skills *and*
> language specific experience :)

Absolutely.  I was being pedantic :-).  But, having good theoretical 
underpinnings and scientific reasoning skills (could be from another 
engineering discipline, e.g. EE) will make acquisition of the 
language-specific skills far easier.

Some of this opinion comes from my own background.  I spent my first 11 
years in the field as a completely self-taught coder.  Managed to learn 
assembly language for a number of CPUs and earned a significant amount of 
money along the way doing contract work for Applied Engineering (Apple 2 
peripheral manufacturer).  However, when I finally bit the bullet and went 
back to college for a BS/CS degree (and later a masters) the experience 
was an incredible eye-opener.  Not only was I more employable with a 
diploma on the wall, but the breadth of ideas presented really opened my 
brain up and completely changed the way I look at problems.

Incredibly enough, all the things "they" say about higher education really 
did turn to be true :-).  I should have listened closer when I was young, 
but better late than never!

Steve


-- 

From snhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 18:35:30 2009
From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:35:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Coco] RGB-to-VGA converter
In-Reply-To: <FC51D957-5849-4364-AB71-8137C432292D@jeanpaulsamson.com>
References: <e44ad6640908310429t2506f1bep3aca288caa274717@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310750250.22297@duo>
	<4A9BBE55.3080300@gmail.com>
	<FC51D957-5849-4364-AB71-8137C432292D@jeanpaulsamson.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0908311816280.22297@duo>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, J.P. Samson wrote:

> On Aug-31-09, at 6:13 AM, Christian Lesage wrote:
>> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>> 
>>> I rolled my own solution for displaying CoCo video on a modern LCD display 
>>> and I agree completely - a great improvement in the viewing experience.
>> 
>> Could you provide us with some details?
>
>
> For anyone who's interested, I've pulled up some of the relevant messages...

Thanks VERY much for pulling that up.  Couldn't locate the thread in my 
mail reader.

I did eventually try building a low-pass filter per Roy's specification in 
an attempt at cleaning up some slight vertical "banding", but it seemed to 
reduce the sharpness quite noticably without really doing much to mitigate 
the bands.  Perhaps I didn't get the component values quite right.  At any 
rate, the artifacts are not that bothersome to me so the solution has 
worked out quite well.

I've been on a concerted campaign to eliminate CRT monitors from my work 
area.  The Wei-Ya box handles my C128 in 80-column mode along with the 
CoCo.  I picked up a cheapie no-name composite-to-VGA converter for C64 
and 128 in 40-column mode, Atari 800 and TI-99a.

The Apples are a tougher problem.  The original Apple II and IIe generate 
a notoriously non-standard NTSC color signal.  Most converters produce 
miserable results from the composite baseband output.  There are a few 
cards in the works that generate real VGA timings and I'm looking forward 
to purchasing or building one of them.

The Apple //gs has an RGB output that's a bit more mainstream, but 
required a rather expensive re-scanning converter (>$200, unfortunately), 
Looks great on a 17" LCD monitor in most of its modes!  As an added bonus, 
the converter works incredibly well on Amiga video.  The higher resolution 
interlaced modes from an A2000 are just about unusable on a CRT monitor 
due to flicker.  The upconverter rescans these and presents a rock-solid, 
gorgeous display.  Works better than any of the legacy scan converters as 
far as I'm concerned.

All of these devices feed inputs on a Belkin KVM switcher, but there is 
obviously some input cable switching required as well.

My other project is elimination of multiple keyboards.  So far, I've found 
adapters that permit me to use a PC keyboard with my Amigas and the Apple 
//gs.  The CoCo is still waiting patiently for a Cloud-9 keyboard adapter. 
Mark has the hardware design finished, but the firmware is still on the 
to-do list (last I checked).  I did chase down an earlier design by Dana 
Peters (I think Mark's original adapter may have been based on this) and 
might take a whack at wire-wrapping one together.

Someone else in the community was working on a keyboard adapter, but I've 
lost his e-mail address and cannot for the life of me remember who it was.

Steve


> .....
>
> On Nov-15-08, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB video 
>> from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter.  I'm pleased to 
>> report that it works quite well!
>> 
>> 40-column text does not fill the display, but 80-column mode runs right to 
>> the edges and looks terrific.  These little boards are about $70 from the 
>> distributor and require a 12VDC wall-wart power supply.  I mounted mine in 
>> a Radio Shmacked project box.
>> 
>> FWIW, I'm using a Dell 17" LCD display.
>
> .....
>
>> There's not a whole lot to write up...  It's just a matter of building a 
>> cable with a 10-pin ribbon cable header on one end.  If you are not sharing 
>> the converter with other classic machines, you just splice the other end to 
>> the header supplied with the converter board.  The signals are just 1:1, 
>> connect Gnd, R, G, B, H-sync and V-sync and you're good to go.  The pinout 
>> for the bottom of the CoCo 3 is widely available.
>> 
>> The converter board has a PC mounted power jack for the wall-wart and a 
>> female VGA connector for the monitor.  No assembly required except for a 
>> box if you so choose.
>> 
>> I have seen Roy's converter on a web page, but was not aware of it when I 
>> started the project to replace all my aging/dying CRTs.  Also, I have the 
>> impression that it's specific for the CoCo and I need something that would 
>> work with any 15Khz. analog RGB source.  I did have to build a little board 
>> to convert digital RGBI from the C128 to analog RGB.  It just sits between 
>> the Commodore and the Wei-Ya converter (I do have to switch plugs when 
>> going from the C128 to the CoCo).

-- 


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug 31 18:53:24 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:53:24 -0600
Subject: [Coco] preliminary curses release
Message-ID: <20090831225324.GA13311@virgo.sdc.org>

OK, I'd like some help here, please.

I've put a stable but very fragile Curses on my webpage at
http://www.sdc.org/~goosey/os9/curses.lzh

Anyone who wants to help get it to work better is welcome.  Please
check the file curses.notes.txt for a rough to-do list.

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goosey at sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard


From goosey at virgo.sdc.org  Mon Aug 31 19:01:16 2009
From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Coco] cocomagic
Message-ID: <20090831230116.GA14112@virgo.sdc.org>

#CoCo Disk BASIC
#Coco binary files can be multi-section.  Each section is:
#$00 <16-bit length> <16-bit start address> <data>...
#The last section is $FF $0000 <16-bit exec address>
#Pretty much s-record with header, only in binary.
#(from: Robert Gault)
#
#Color TRSDOS binaries are single record, but can have overlays
#built-in to them.  They have a $FF section, but the exec address is
#$0000  They start at $1200, and should start with a JMP 1205 <16-bit-
#section-length> <code>....
#or in other words 00 xx xx 12 00 7E 12 05 yy yy <code...>
#BRA would be.....................20 03 zz yy yy <code...>
#LBRA would be....................16 00 02 yy yy <code...>
#
#xx xx is length of .bin section
#yy yy is length of the root program -- the same section may have
#overlays after the root program.

#except that the edtasm executables start at $1400 (zbug.bin) or 
#$1600 (edtasm.bin & edtasmov.bin)  Reading the code for CTRSDOS shows
#program can start anywhere above $11FF
#CTRSDOS info from Color Dist EDTASM manual

#wow, talk about conflicting with lots of stuff!

0	byte	0	CoCo DECB .bin

>3	beshort 0	relocatable, must supply offset

>3	beshort 0x0400	VDG text screen image

>3	beshort 0x0E00	Pmode graphics data,page 1
>>1	beshort 0x1800  Pmode 3/4
>>1	beshort 0x0800  Pmode 1/2
>>1	beshort 0x0600  Pmode 0
>3	beshort 0x1400  Pmode graphics data, page 2
>3	beshort 0x1A00  Pmode graphics data, page 3
>3	beshort 0x2000  Pmode graphics data, page 4
>3	beshort 0x2600  Pmode graphics data, page 5
>3	beshort 0x2c00  Pmode graphics data, page 6
>3	beshort 0x3200  Pmode graphics data, page 7
>3	beshort 0x3800  Pmode graphics data, page 8 

>3	beshort 0xFFB0	CoCo3 Palette dump

>3	beshort 0xC000	ROM space image

>3	beshort 0x1200	Color TRSDOS required?
>>5      byte	0x7E
>>>8	beshort x	length of root program %d
>>5	byte	0x16
>>>8	beshort x	length of root program %d

>1	beshort	x	length of first record %d
>3	beshort x	load address of first record %d

#TC3  "The Compressor" archiver
#<sequence number (start at 1)><header><data><sequence number>....
#from: Tim Koonce's untc.c

0	byte	1	TC3 archive
#header
>1	string	x	Filename: %s
>9	string	x	ext: %s
>12	byte	x	File type: %d
>13	byte	x	ASCII Flag: %d
>14	byte	1	valid version
>14	byte	x	invalid version number: %d
>15	byte	x	Length1: %d
>16	beshort	x	Length2 +3 : %d
>18	byte	x	compression type: %d


#Additional OS-9 formats

#VEF image 
#Vdg Extended Format, a graphics format
#from: MVCanvas Version 2.0 docs by Mike Haaland

#also conflicts with lots of stuff...
0	beshort 0x0000	VEF image data, 320x200 16 color
0	beshort 0x0001  VEF image data, 640x200  4 color
0	beshort 0x0003  VEF image data, 320x200  4 color
0	beshort 0x0004  VEF image data, 640x200  2 color

0	beshort 0x8000	squashed VEF image data, 320x200 16 color
0	beshort 0x8001  squashed VEF image data, 640x200  4 color
0	beshort 0x8003  squashed VEF image data, 320x200  4 color
0	beshort 0x8004  squashed VEF image data, 640x200  2 color

#Coco Usenet Transfer System, a smart uuencoder
#these can have text in front of the encoded part, and this will only
#work on CUTS files that don't.

0	string	.0000.	CUTS encoded file

#OS-9/6x09 ROF (object file)
#OS-9 libraries are just rof files catted together, which
#makes the linker slower but simpler.
#This also means that this could be a whole library of rof files, not
#just one.
#from: Jljao at aol.com

0	belong 0x62cd2387	OS-9 ROF object file
>4	beshort x		Type/language: %d
>6	byte	x		valid: %d
#>7     5 bytes! date/time
>12	byte	x		Edition: %d
>13	byte	x		Assembler version: %d
>14	beshort x		Uninitialized Data size: %d
>16	beshort	x		Uninitialized Direct Page size: %d
>18	beshort x		Initialized Data size: %d
>20	beshort x		Initialized Direct Page size: %d
>22	beshort x		Module Code size: %d
>24	beshort x		Module Stack size: %d
>26	beshort x		Module Entry Point: %d
>28	string  >\0		Module Name: %s

#OS-9/6x09 gpload data
#get / put buffer load 
#like most OS-9 formats, can have multiple sections catted together
#from: OS-9 Level II Technical Reference

0	beshort 0x1B2B		OS-9 GPLoad data
>1	byte	0xCA		StdPtrs group
>1	byte	0XC8		StdFnts group
>1	byte	0xCB		StdPats_2 group
>1	byte	0xCC		StdPats_4 group
>1	byte	0xCD		StdPats_16 group
>1	byte	0xC9		Clipboard group
>1	byte	x		Group: %d
>2	byte	x		Buffer Number: %d
>3	byte	x		Screen Type: %d
>4	beshort x		x-size: %d
>6	beshort x		y-size: %d
>8	beshort x		Data Length: %d

#OS-9/6x09 AR
#OS-9 ar is an archiver that also does compression
#Again, files are catted together
#from: Robert Gault's ar13ar12.b09 program

0	string	 +AR0.0+	OS-9 AR archive
>8	string	x		File: %s
>74	belong	x		Length: %d
>78	byte	x		Compression Version : %d
>79	byte	x		Status: %d
#next is 16 bytes of "attr" data
#then the compressed data


0	string	PROCEDURE	OS-9 BASIC-09 source

#iirc LI help file has a different format
0	string	@		OS-9 LII helpmsg file

#OS-9 shell uses * as a comment character.
0	string	*		OS-9 shell script or env.file


#YM6 sound files
#only sorta a CoCo format
#native to machines with a YM sound chip
#CoCo Speech/Sound pak has a YM chip, but it's complicated...

0	string	YM		YM sound file
>4	string	x		by: %s
>20	byte	1		interleaved
>34	string	x		title: %s
>55	string	x		Author: %s
>75	string	x		Software: %s

#DB9-90 database file
#used by Data Windows, was released into PD in 1990
#hoped to become the standard OS-9 database file format
#main database file .dba
#header is variable length:
#4 byte offset to the first data record
#4 byte offset to the field definition section
#2 byte numer of fields in each record
#6 byte application signature
#variable length app specific data field
#48 byte field definition for each field
#
#DB9-90 .ndx is a btree index file
header is:
#4 byte file offset to the root node of the tree
#2 byte duplication flag
#250 byte reserved space
#
#from: Data Windows Reference Manual Keith J. Alphonso
#closest thing to a real magic number is the app. signature
#Alphonso reserved ALPHA0..ALPHA9 
#
10	string	ALPHA0		OS-9 Data Windows database
>8	beshort	x		%d fields/record

#Color Computer Artist
0	string	Artist\ file\ type	Color Computer Artist

#Dynacalc
#Dynacalc's spreadsheet file not documented
#import/export data file is in ascii
#from: Dynacalc manual

0	string	*DYNACALC	OS-9 Dynacalc exported data
0	string	/Col		OS-9 Dynacalc import/export data column-major
0	string	/Row            OS-9 Dynacalc import/export data row-major

#Pilot language interpeter

0	string	R:		PILOT source



From tpreitzel at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 19:24:25 2009
From: tpreitzel at hotmail.com (TP Reitzel)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:24:25 +0000
Subject: [Coco] Perl PL for OS/9
In-Reply-To: <4c56cbd30908310643r2ed1eb75y182c4ab7ba2230e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT116-W175E1C38284C56706FC13CB2F30@phx.gbl>
	<20090830200324.GC24646@virgo.sdc.org>
	<SNT116-W41DAA9F1037C4BFD88811CB2F20@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0908310737020.22297@duo>
	<e44ad6640908310623nf4bfd33q331657dc65c4deac@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4c56cbd30908310643r2ed1eb75y182c4ab7ba2230e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W60B00DCF0AC7BDB3084FF4B2F20@phx.gbl>


 "And finding one that works from 8-bits up to modern machines is a lot
 to ask. Maybe Forth? Not an expert on it, by any means, but since it's
 an easy language to interpret, it works on just about any machine."

James -

Maybe, I should revisit Forth again and his addition of color to Forth. Personally, I like the way Moore thinks. His mind certainly isn't cluttered by the indoctrination of government  "educational" systems. In fact, Chuck would probably see using OS/9 as a step backward from RSDOS. ;) Personally, I'm NOT going to jump into this decision. I have time to learn only one language even if I have to spend several more years researching which one.  In the meantime, my plate is full of other activities.  :)

http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm
 


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