From wdg3rd at comcast.net Sat Nov 1 01:42:47 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:42:47 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines Message-ID: <110120080542.15264.490BEC570000A56F00003BA022092299270B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> From: theother_bob > I don't know about that for sure, but I can say from first hand benchmarking > that it speeds Basic up to use Hex numbers instead of decimal. To prove it, try > the following benchmarks: > ? > 10 TIMER=0:FOR X=1 TO 1000:N=&HC0C0*&H2:NEXT:T=TIMER;?T > ? > 10 TIMER=0:FOR X=1 TO 1000:N=49344*2:NEXT:T=TIMER:?T > ? > I'm not actually running these now, but I'm confident you will see a faster time > on the first example in RS Basic. > > For Benchmarking especially, it is best to eliminate as much OS overhead as > possible. Keep lines to the least (and lowest)?number?possible, put subroutines > at the beginning of the program, declare frequently used variables first... all > good practices I have experienced noticeable improvements from. There are also > some POKEs that can make really major speed and security?improvements in Basic. Most of this is not unique to CoCo BASIC, it (aside from the 6809 hispeed poke, which doesn't change how BASIC works, it just heats up the CPU) is common to _all_ of the Microsoft interpreted BASICs. From Altair to GWBASIC with the side-trip to Model 100 BASIC. I never played with QuickBASIC much, I don't know how it did things, and of course once you get to Visual "BASIC" it's a whole new (and not my) cup of poisoned meat (I can mix up references as well as any politician). I remember when we weren't that concerned about how fast it worked, as long as it worked -- once things were stable, then we'd tweak. Carefully. Especially on production systems. What's this about security POKEs? Do you mean making programs unLISTable? Those were all easily broken (well, actually, the philosophy which inspired them was broken to begin with, handicapping the players in that game). -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net "What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off". Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ From tonym at compusource.net Sat Nov 1 04:58:25 2008 From: tonym at compusource.net (tonym) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 08:58:25 GMT Subject: [Coco] ccr-83 Message-ID: <200811010458176.SM04512@[208.76.35.239]> Dang - haven't seen YOU post in nearly a month! Ya still gots the CCR83's on the site? It says comes with a data cable - I assume the cable from the CCR to the CoCo/M100/M102 (same cable) Din5 to the 3 recorder plugs? How much for 1 shipped to 33126? Tony From tonym at compusource.net Sat Nov 1 04:59:25 2008 From: tonym at compusource.net (tonym) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 08:59:25 GMT Subject: [Coco] ccr-83 Message-ID: <200811010459567.SM02008@[208.76.35.239]> Sorry folks, was meant to go direct... It *IS* 5am, so can I PLEASE get a mulligan on that one? Tony -----Original Message----- From: tonym tonym at compusource.net Sent 11/1/2008 4:58:25 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: [Coco] ccr-83 Dang - haven't seen YOU post in nearly a month! Ya still gots the CCR83's on the site? It says comes with a data cable - I assume the cable from the CCR to the CoCo/M100/M102 (same cable) Din5 to the 3 recorder plugs? How much for 1 shipped to 33126? Tony -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 05:13:12 2008 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:13:12 +1000 Subject: [Coco] ccr-83 References: <200811010459567.SM02008@[208.76.35.239]> Message-ID: <001b01c93c02$12920390$831d5e77@aceraspire> Yeah, Take a mulligan on that one, Tony. We all do that from time to time. from the wilds of Manila...... Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: "tonym" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] ccr-83 > Sorry folks, was meant to go direct... > > It *IS* 5am, so can I PLEASE get a mulligan on that one? > > > Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: tonym tonym at compusource.net > Sent 11/1/2008 4:58:25 AM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts coco at maltedmedia.com > Subject: [Coco] ccr-83 > > Dang - haven't seen YOU post in nearly a month! > > Ya still gots the CCR83's on the site? > It says comes with a data cable - I assume the cable from the CCR to > the CoCo/M100/M102 (same cable) Din5 to the 3 recorder plugs? > > How much for 1 shipped to 33126? > > > Tony > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From davehazelton at comcast.net Sat Nov 1 13:41:22 2008 From: davehazelton at comcast.net (David Hazelton) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:41:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <200810202254.37025.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <16bae8870810200734q30818e59x4ea2dafad832ee95@mail.gmail.com> <200810201057.28750.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <200810202254.37025.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <490C94C2.3060400@comcast.net> Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 20 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Monday 20 October 2008, Carlos Bragatto wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Gene Heskett >>> >> wrote: >> >>>> My, how time fly's when one is busy. And I have been. I spent the >>>> summer building an attached garage with little help, see >>>> >>>> to see what has been occupying my >>>> time. :) >>>> >>> Kudos! >>> >>> But Gene, couldn't you generate a web album using something like JAlbum? It >>> generates fantastic web albums, and if you have a Macintosh, you can use >>> Bananalbum, which is way cooler. >>> >>> Carlos >>> >> All linux house here, and a quick search of yumex's offerings didn't find >> JAlbum. >> >> I have been playing some with Amaya, but that has a very steep learning >> curve. I just found I have bluefish installed & maybe I can cobble up >> something in it. OTOH, a quick google search found it, & its dl'ing bow. >> >> > But JAlbum crashed early in the install, so I have NDI if it works or not. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: 2008-10-22 07:23 > > Did you Try Gallery there is a Version 1 which is pretty basic and a version 2 which needs SQL I run Version 1, not enough pictures to justify a photo Album running off Mysql.....Maybe later. ~David Hazelton From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 1 22:47:51 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:47:51 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <490C94C2.3060400@comcast.net> References: <200810202254.37025.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <490C94C2.3060400@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 01 November 2008, David Hazelton wrote: >Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Monday 20 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Carlos Bragatto wrote: >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Gene Heskett >>> >>> wrote: >>>>> My, how time fly's when one is busy. And I have been. I spent the >>>>> summer building an attached garage with little help, see >>>>> >>>>> to see what has been occupying my >>>>> time. :) >>>> >>>> Kudos! >>>> >>>> But Gene, couldn't you generate a web album using something like JAlbum? >>>> It generates fantastic web albums, and if you have a Macintosh, you can >>>> use Bananalbum, which is way cooler. >>>> >>>> Carlos >>> >>> All linux house here, and a quick search of yumex's offerings didn't find >>> JAlbum. >>> >>> I have been playing some with Amaya, but that has a very steep learning >>> curve. I just found I have bluefish installed & maybe I can cobble up >>> something in it. OTOH, a quick google search found it, & its dl'ing bow. >> >> But JAlbum crashed early in the install, so I have NDI if it works or not. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: 2008-10-22 >> 07:23 > >Did you Try Gallery there is a Version 1 which is pretty basic and a >version 2 which needs SQL >I run Version 1, not enough pictures to justify a photo Album running >off Mysql.....Maybe later. > >~David Hazelton > Gallery? Sorry, never heard of it till now. But I do have a half hearted start. In you will find a first pass at a mostly test web page, with links to the directories, which I haven't done anything to yet. Click on the only .html file there. I used a pix of me & the missus from spring '04, so its a bit dated. We need to get a more recent one taken. The program I used is KompoZer, apparently part of the KDE GUI accessory's. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Wit, n.: The salt with which the American Humorist spoils his cookery ... by leaving it out. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Nov 2 10:18:21 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:18:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: , <490C94C2.3060400@comcast.net>, <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <490D7E6D.4006.1586623@jdaggett.gate.net> Gene Nice pics in the txpix section. The Harris transmitter looks real clean. Do you actually fire those two transmitters up? It sure looks like you do with all that wiring and hardware. What tubes are used in the finals? james On 1 Nov 2008 at 22:47, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 01 November 2008, David Hazelton wrote: > >Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Monday 20 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote: > >>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Carlos Bragatto wrote: > >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Gene Heskett > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> My, how time fly's when one is busy. And I have been. I spent > >>>>> the summer building an attached garage with little help, see > >>>>> > >>>>> to see what has been > >>>>> occupying my time. :) > >>>> > >>>> Kudos! > >>>> > >>>> But Gene, couldn't you generate a web album using something like > >>>> JAlbum? It generates fantastic web albums, and if you have a > >>>> Macintosh, you can use Bananalbum, which is way cooler. > >>>> > >>>> Carlos > >>> > >>> All linux house here, and a quick search of yumex's offerings > >>> didn't find JAlbum. > >>> > >>> I have been playing some with Amaya, but that has a very steep > >>> learning curve. I just found I have bluefish installed & maybe I > >>> can cobble up something in it. OTOH, a quick google search found > >>> it, & its dl'ing bow. > >> > >> But JAlbum crashed early in the install, so I have NDI if it works > >> or not. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ----- > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: > >> 2008-10-22 07:23 > > > >Did you Try Gallery there is a Version 1 which is pretty basic and a > >version 2 which needs SQL I run Version 1, not enough pictures to > >justify a photo Album running off Mysql.....Maybe later. > > > >~David Hazelton > > > Gallery? Sorry, never heard of it till now. But I do have a half > hearted start. In you will find a > first pass at a mostly test web page, with links to the directories, > which I haven't done anything to yet. Click on the only .html file > there. I used a pix of me & the missus from spring '04, so its a bit > dated. We need to get a more recent one taken. > > The program I used is KompoZer, apparently part of the KDE GUI > accessory's. > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > Wit, n.: > The salt with which the American Humorist spoils his cookery > ... by leaving it out. > -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sun Nov 2 00:35:31 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 00:35:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <490D7E6D.4006.1586623@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <490D7E6D.4006.1586623@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <200811020035.31192.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Sunday 02 November 2008, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >Gene > >Nice pics in the txpix section. The Harris transmitter looks real clean. > >Do you actually fire those two transmitters up? It sure looks like you do > with all that wiring and hardware. > >What tubes are used in the finals? > >james > So that's where all my bandwidth went :) Yes, the old GE is on the air, and has been since the late 50's. The Harris is recent and I'm in the process of restoring it for use as the amplifier for our digital channel when we go up to full power, and digital on our original channel, 5. Currently our digital is a 200 watt puny-power on channel 6. The amplifiers in the Harris are identical, and the aural one could be retuned for full bandwidth and used as a spare, or if the hassle of combiners could be handled, even as a parallel setup. The GE has quite a lineup of ancient tubes, one of which is the 4-1000, and the last decent pair of them on the planet is in there now. By February and analog shutdown time, we will be probably down to 75% power because they are fading slowly. Those tubes haven't been made in about 15 years now. The RF stages are, a pair of 4cx250b's as the modulated stage, they drive the pair of 4-1000's, which in turn drive a pair of 3cx2500's to make nominally 5 kw. That gets fed to the next cabinet, with a big old honk of a water cooled triode (5681?) in it for the final. Rated at some large plate dissipation I've forgotten, it supposedly can make 75kw synch tip peak on channel 6, when tuned a full 6 mhz wide. Our setup only hits 26.7 kw synch tip peak, so one of the first things I did when I walked in the door in 84 was to turn its 12 volt heater down to 10.5. The one in the socket now is running at 11.25 volts and is several years old. We've used 3 of them, rebuilt by econco, since 84. One failed shorted when we slammed the cabinet door (its a bitch to close fully), and another failed gassy. The previous engineer ran them at full voltage which ran them out in 6 months. That was $24k a year for tubes we destroyed by sheer stupidity. Then there were 2 of them as the aural also used one, but after looking over the engineering I realized we were still running on a grandfathered license that spec'd equal power for both carriers. Since the aural only needs a few percent of the visual to work correctly, and actually work a lot better than when both at at full power, the commission allowed us to reduce the aural power about 30 years ago, so I bypassed the final, which put about a kilowatt of aural on the air direct from the aurals driver (another pair of 4-1000's) and figured I could always put it back when the phone rang with a complaint. It hasn't in 15 years, so I even cut the water lines to it a couple of years ago. One less set of leaks to worry about. Probably more than you asked for, James. :) And that Harris is older than it looks at first glance, it was made in '71. It was the first IF modulated transmitter. And this one is first generation. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) To be or not to be. -- Shakespeare To do is to be. -- Nietzsche To be is to do. -- Sartre Do be do be do. -- Sinatra From wdg3rd at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 03:22:32 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:22:32 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support Message-ID: <110220080822.19455.490D6348000720B200004BFF22070009530B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> Dayum, Gene, but I hope I look that good when I reach that age. Actually, I wish I looked that good now, and I'm only three years into my second half-century. -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Gene Heskett > Gallery? Sorry, never heard of it till now. But I do have a half hearted > start. In you will find a first pass at a > mostly test web page, with links to the directories, which I haven't done > anything to yet. Click on the only .html file there. I used a pix of me & > the missus from spring '04, so its a bit dated. We need to get a more recent > one taken. From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sun Nov 2 10:07:30 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:07:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <110220080822.19455.490D6348000720B200004BFF22070009530B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> References: <110220080822.19455.490D6348000720B200004BFF22070009530B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200811021007.30659.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Sunday 02 November 2008, wdg3rd at comcast.net wrote: >Dayum, Gene, but I hope I look that good when I reach that age. Actually, I > wish I looked that good now, and I'm only three years into my second > half-century. -- >Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net Thanks for the flowers Ward, but this morning I'm not sure. I spent a goodly portion of yesterday either standing on a couple of orbital sanders (one with 100 grit, one with 220) trying to remove a botched finish on the glued up cherry plank I'm going to use as the tv shelf in this entertainment center, and after getting it almost good enough to stain (but you have to try the stain before you can see the bad places) going all the way to 400 grit using a 2x4 I'd run through the planer to make it flat for a sandpaper form & that took several hours of hand sanding, stopping about every 2 minutes to vacuum both the shelf and the sandpaper to keep it from clogging, I did re-stain it. Then it was about 8ish and Dee was bowling so I went to the local chinese place for a couple plates of their chicken & broccoli & by the time I walked back to the truck, I was so sore in every joint it took 2 beers and 4 naproxin sodiums to get to sleep. And I'm still all stove up this morning. Getting old is NOT for wusses. The only way I'll feel better is to get moving, and work some of the sugar off (192 just now) but its gonna take 2 cups of green tea to accomplish that this morning. Gotta have both eyes open simultainiously to walk safely you know. :) [...] >> of me & the missus from spring '04, so its a bit dated. We need to get a >> more recent one taken. I took that one with the self timer, hence the somewhat low angle as it was sitting on the banister of the front deck, so there isn't an excuse not to do it again, just haven't really looked for my round tuit, too busy with other stuff. The beard then was an all winter effort, right now its under an inch as I just started on this winters beard about 6 weeks back. Scruffy too IMO. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Playing an unamplified electric guitar is like strumming on a picnic table. -- Dave Barry, "The Snake" From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 2 15:14:16 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:14:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bob Withers' graphics adventures page Message-ID: <20081102201429.A924420A37@qs281.pair.com> Check this out. I've revamped Bob Withers' CoCo adventures page. If you've got VCC installed (CoCo 3 emulator) you can click on "Play Now" next to each adventure to launch them online. The source code and maps are also available next to each title as well as a full-size copy of the product graphics associated with each title. http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=BobWithers -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com Sun Nov 2 17:57:02 2008 From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:57:02 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0810291754k6f842250x490ae745dc11fbaa@mail.gmail.com> References: <0AF64DA1-1E2A-47BF-885E-B8A17177D10F@verizon.net><48FF2D74.1030301@adinet.com.uy> <5d802cd0810291754k6f842250x490ae745dc11fbaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren A" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines > On 10/29/08, John wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I seem to remember BASIC "coding guidelines" said to initialize and >> declare >> all variables at the beginning of a program. In addition to making the >> code >> somewhat more readable, I seem to remember some minor performance gains >> from >> this as well (especially if you declared the most often used variables >> first). > > For performance reasons, you should put all initialization code > towards the end of the program in a subroutine and then use a GOSUB to > call it from beginning of your program. The reasoning for this is that > every GOTO statement which branches back to an earlier line number > causes the interpreter to start searching for that line number from > the very beginning. Therefore, the fewer number of one-time-executed > lines at the beginning of the program, the better. > > I seriously doubt there are very many programs that will actually > benefit from this kind of optimization. > > Darren When developing "Urbane" I did notice that placing the most used subroutines first did speed up the translatation process. I was not happy about the processing speed even with the "Run" time version being as compact as possible and planned additional methods to speed it up (Machine Language Version). The first version, the only one released, was developed to be as readable as possible for humans while still being as fast as possible for Basic to run, while removing the two character variable and line number limitations of Basic which make it such an unpleasant language for humans to use. http://www.coco3.com/urbane/ SHF From badfrog at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 19:41:49 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 18:41:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bob Withers' graphics adventures page In-Reply-To: <20081102201429.A924420A37@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081102201429.A924420A37@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811021641l41abf7fav84bd019ba994197d@mail.gmail.com> That is awesome, thanks for the page! I know I was so close to beating a couple of those years ago (sea search and calixto) that I've managed to not look up any cheat codes. Think I may try them at work tomorrow. :) On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Roger Taylor wrote: > Check this out. I've revamped Bob Withers' CoCo adventures page. If you've > got VCC installed (CoCo 3 emulator) you can click on "Play Now" next to each > adventure to launch them online. The source code and maps are also > available next to each title as well as a full-size copy of the product > graphics associated with each title. > > > http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=BobWithers > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From tlindner at macmess.org Sun Nov 2 23:30:31 2008 From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:30:31 -0800 Subject: [Coco] April 1993 Message-ID: <1ipsouz.52owww12lrj7mM%tlindner@macmess.org> I have reason to believe April 1993 (Vol. XII, No. 9) was the last issue of The Rainbow. Is this true? -- tim lindner tlindner at macmess.org Bright From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 2 23:41:30 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:41:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] April 1993 In-Reply-To: <1ipsouz.52owww12lrj7mM%tlindner@macmess.org> Message-ID: <952896.29944.qm@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nope, Incorrect. The Farewell issue ("The Time Has Come") was May 1993. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sun, 11/2/08, tim lindner wrote: > From: tim lindner > Subject: [Coco] April 1993 > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 10:30 PM > I have reason to believe April 1993 (Vol. XII, No. 9) was > the last issue > of The Rainbow. Is this true? From farna at att.net Mon Nov 3 12:40:41 2008 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:40:41 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. Message-ID: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text screen, 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the CoCo 1! Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only removable storage is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 (512K?). An SD card slot or some other more easily portable device would have been better, but you can program the EEPROM and use the thing as a controller, but then you could do that with an SD also. No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. BASIC is a line number BASIC similar to Color BASIC, but I didn't look at the manual enough to know how close.That and it's been ages since I tried to program anything! There's some technical info in the manual concerning the expansion port, maybe some of you more hardware/technical types can figure something out by that. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 3 13:10:16 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:10:16 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Message-ID: <490F3E88.3070009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Frank Swygert wrote: > Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html > It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text screen, > 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the CoCo 1! > Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only removable storage > is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 (512K?). An SD card > slot or some other more easily portable device would have been better, > but you can program the EEPROM and use the thing as a controller, but > then you could do that with an SD also. > > No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. From the expansion port and the description of the address space, I think it's probably a Havard archetecture microcontroler, something like an AVR or a PIC or something similar. Wish they sold the VGA chips sepeeratly, would be cool to interface one of those to a CoCo. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 4 01:07:21 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:07:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Message-ID: <490FA049.16511.12658E7@jdaggett.gate.net> Frank I would think that the microcontroller was something like a PIC, SX or that type of microcontroller. The heart of the board is the ezVGA chip. With its cost of $25 and some comments I have researched this may very well be a Xilinx XC9500 series CPLD. A simple VGA willfit in a Xilinx XC9572 and with memoryinterface you would need at least a 84 pin PLCC package that they do come in. james On 3 Nov 2008 at 12:40, Frank Swygert wrote: > Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html > It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text screen, > 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the CoCo 1! > Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only removable > storage is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 (512K?). An > SD card slot or some other more easily portable device would have been > better, but you can program the EEPROM and use the thing as a > controller, but then you could do that with an SD also. > > No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. BASIC > is a line number BASIC similar to Color BASIC, but I didn't look at > the manual enough to know how close.That and it's been ages since I > tried to program anything! There's some technical info in the manual > concerning the expansion port, maybe some of you more > hardware/technical types can figure something out by that. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 4 01:12:58 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:12:58 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3E88.3070009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net>, <490F3E88.3070009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <490FA19A.31251.12B7B3C@jdaggett.gate.net> On 3 Nov 2008 at 18:10, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: > Wish they sold the VGA chips sepeeratly, would be cool to interface > one of those to a CoCo. They do $25 $30 with the 128kx8 sram james From mechacoco at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 13:20:09 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:20:09 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811031020u7f4782f7g146845ad3ad19714@mail.gmail.com> This is probably an FPGA running a "custom" processor design. They don't have any kind of information on how to program it other than by using the BASIC interpreter. The BASIC has some serious limitations: Only single-character variable names Program lines and strings are limited to 79 characters Single dimensioned arrays with a maximum of 256 elements No ELSE clauses in IF THEN statements Cannot use a varibale name in NEXT to override nesting On the plus side, it allows expressions in GOTO and GOSUB statements and appears to support 24-bit integers in addition to 32-bit floating point numbers. Darren --- On 11/3/08, Frank Swygert wrote: > Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html > It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text screen, > 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the CoCo 1! > Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only removable storage > is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 (512K?). An SD card > slot or some other more easily portable device would have been better, > but you can program the EEPROM and use the thing as a controller, but > then you could do that with an SD also. > > No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. BASIC is > a line number BASIC similar to Color BASIC, but I didn't look at the > manual enough to know how close.That and it's been ages since I tried to > program anything! There's some technical info in the manual concerning > the expansion port, maybe some of you more hardware/technical types can > figure something out by that. > From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 4 01:33:42 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:33:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811031020u7f4782f7g146845ad3ad19714@mail.gmail.com> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net>, <5d802cd0811031020u7f4782f7g146845ad3ad19714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490FA676.23553.13E764E@jdaggett.gate.net> Daren >From the pictures on the web, the large chip to the right is the ezVGA chip which is a Xilinx XC9572 in an 84 pin PLCC. The smaller chip below it is the 128kx8 chip is a TSSOPII package. The rest of the chips deal with sound and the main microprossor. My guess is a PIC or AVR or something in that nature. Also the resources CD that comes with it may contain the Basic compiler that compiles down to an I- code that runs with the internal runtime library. james On 3 Nov 2008 at 11:20, Darren A wrote: > This is probably an FPGA running a "custom" processor design. They > don't have any kind of information on how to program it other than by > using the BASIC interpreter. The BASIC has some serious limitations: > > Only single-character variable names > Program lines and strings are limited to 79 characters > Single dimensioned arrays with a maximum of 256 elements > No ELSE clauses in IF THEN statements > Cannot use a varibale name in NEXT to override nesting > > On the plus side, it allows expressions in GOTO and GOSUB statements > and appears to support 24-bit integers in addition to 32-bit floating > point numbers. > > Darren > > --- > > On 11/3/08, Frank Swygert wrote: > > Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html > > It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text > > screen, 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the > > CoCo 1! Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only > > removable storage is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 > > (512K?). An SD card slot or some other more easily portable device > > would have been better, but you can program the EEPROM and use the > > thing as a controller, but then you could do that with an SD also. > > > > No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. BASIC > > is a line number BASIC similar to Color BASIC, but I didn't look at > > the manual enough to know how close.That and it's been ages since I > > tried to program anything! There's some technical info in the manual > > concerning the expansion port, maybe some of you more > > hardware/technical types can figure something out by that. > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 3 14:28:44 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:28:44 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490FA049.16511.12658E7@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> <490FA049.16511.12658E7@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <490F50EC.6050006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > Frank > > I would think that the microcontroller was something like a PIC, SX or that > type of microcontroller. Having a look at some of their other products, It may well be a PIC, as I can see the Microchip logo on (for example the mouse->serial thingy, which only seems to have one 8 pin chip). > The heart of the board is the ezVGA chip. With its > cost of $25 and some comments I have researched this may very well be a > Xilinx XC9500 series CPLD. Yep and looking at the VGA chip pinout and comparing it with the Xilinx data sheet pins 28,29,30 and 59 are marked no connect on the VGA, supprisingly those are the programming pins on the Xilinx data sheet, power pins seem to match too.... Ok, I now wish they sold it as a soft core, as I already have some Xilinx chips.... > A simple VGA willfit in a Xilinx XC9572 and Yep infact one of the first things I did with a CPLD, was to get it to generate coloured boxes on the VGA screen, just with internal logic and counters, no memory interface tho. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From linville at tuxdriver.com Mon Nov 3 15:27:40 2008 From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:27:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] [support@multilabs.net: Re: retro cpu?] Message-ID: <20081103202739.GA3532@tuxdriver.com> FYI... ----- Forwarded message from Multilabs Support ----- > Envelope-to: linville at tuxdriver.com > Delivery-date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:18:35 -0500 > From: Multilabs Support > To: "John W. Linville" > Subject: Re: retro cpu? > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:18:39 -0800 > > Dear John Linville, > > Thank you for your interest in our products. > > The CPU used in Retro is a PIC18F6410 running at 40MHz. Currently, Retro > does not support any other language other than the built-in BASIC. > > Please let us know if you have any other questions. > > Best Regards, > Multilabs Support > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Linville" > > To: > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:12 AM > Subject: retro cpu? > > >> Can you tell me what sort of CPU is used in the Retro? I am interested >> in the product, but I may want to program in a compiled language rather >> than usin gthe built-in BASIC? >> >> Is it a standard processor? Or is it something custom? >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> -- >> John W. Linville Linux should be at the core >> linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. From cdiman7 at flash.net Mon Nov 3 15:38:03 2008 From: cdiman7 at flash.net (KARL SEFCIK) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:38:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Message-ID: <658562.80149.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Frank,When I was in electronics school back in '81, the microprocessor trainers we had were probably not more complicated than that. The one I used had a 6802 chip in it, if my memory serves me well. Karl Sefcik --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Frank Swygert wrote: From: Frank Swygert Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. To: coco at maltedmedia.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 12:40 PM Anyone seen one of these things: http://www.multilabs.net/Retro.html It's a 32K built-in BASIC computer with a native 40 x 30 Text screen, 320 x 240 Pixel graphics, 64 Colors. Very reminiscent of the CoCo 1! Well, maybe more like a more powerful MC-10. The only removable storage is an 8 pin DIP socket for EEPROMs up to a 24LC512 (512K?). An SD card slot or some other more easily portable device would have been better, but you can program the EEPROM and use the thing as a controller, but then you could do that with an SD also. No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. BASIC is a line number BASIC similar to Color BASIC, but I didn't look at the manual enough to know how close.That and it's been ages since I tried to program anything! There's some technical info in the manual concerning the expansion port, maybe some of you more hardware/technical types can figure something out by that. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Nov 3 17:34:02 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:34:02 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net> Message-ID: <490F7C5A.3060809@iinet.net.au> Frank Swygert wrote: > No mention of what processor is used, only that it's an 8-bit. If you zoom in on the picture in the manual, you can just make out a PIC processor near the middle of the board. You can buy an FPGA eval board with a similar form factor for the same or even less, and then program it with whatever processor(s) and flavour of BASIC etc you like (such as a COCO emulation), not to mention have more expansion options like SD card etc. Something like the TerASIC DE1 at USD$150 would be at least 10 times more useful and powerful than this thing. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 4 09:44:41 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:44:41 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Retro computer, somewhat similar to CC1/MC-10. In-Reply-To: <490F50EC.6050006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> References: <490F3799.2010903@att.net>, <490FA049.16511.12658E7@jdaggett.gate.net>, <490F50EC.6050006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <49101989.88.368E5E@jdaggett.gate.net> Phil The core is an adaption of the basic core that XESS Corp put out for their XESS95 board. That used a XC9500 series CPLD and I think the code is freely downloadable from their web. If not I have it and could send it to you. james On 3 Nov 2008 at 19:28, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: > jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > > Frank > > > > I would think that the microcontroller was something like a PIC, SX > > or that type of microcontroller. > > Having a look at some of their other products, It may well be a PIC, > as I can see the Microchip logo on (for example the mouse->serial > thingy, which only seems to have one 8 pin chip). > > > The heart of the board is the ezVGA chip. With its > > cost of $25 and some comments I have researched this may very well > > be a Xilinx XC9500 series CPLD. > > Yep and looking at the VGA chip pinout and comparing it with the > Xilinx data sheet pins 28,29,30 and 59 are marked no connect on the > VGA, supprisingly those are the programming pins on the Xilinx data > sheet, power pins seem to match too.... > > Ok, I now wish they sold it as a soft core, as I already have some > Xilinx chips.... > > > A simple VGA willfit in a Xilinx XC9572 and > > Yep infact one of the first things I did with a CPLD, was to get it to > generate coloured boxes on the VGA screen, just with internal logic > and counters, no memory interface tho. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > -- > Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric > ! > > "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Tue Nov 4 01:37:00 2008 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 01:37:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 Message-ID: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Hello Coco Folks I just recovered from a computer crash. When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 section Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. My question is "How do I get past this problem? Your help is welcomed John ____________________________________________________________ Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ From davehazelton at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 22:46:32 2008 From: davehazelton at comcast.net (David Hazelton) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:46:32 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <200810202254.37025.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <490C94C2.3060400@comcast.net> <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <490FC598.30203@comcast.net> Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 01 November 2008, David Hazelton wrote: > >> Gene Heskett wrote: >> >>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> >>>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Carlos Bragatto wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Gene Heskett >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> My, how time fly's when one is busy. And I have been. I spent the >>>>>> summer building an attached garage with little help, see >>>>>> >>>>>> to see what has been occupying my >>>>>> time. :) >>>>>> >>>>> Kudos! >>>>> >>>>> But Gene, couldn't you generate a web album using something like JAlbum? >>>>> It generates fantastic web albums, and if you have a Macintosh, you can >>>>> use Bananalbum, which is way cooler. >>>>> >>>>> Carlos >>>>> >>>> All linux house here, and a quick search of yumex's offerings didn't find >>>> JAlbum. >>>> >>>> I have been playing some with Amaya, but that has a very steep learning >>>> curve. I just found I have bluefish installed & maybe I can cobble up >>>> something in it. OTOH, a quick google search found it, & its dl'ing bow. >>>> >>> But JAlbum crashed early in the install, so I have NDI if it works or not. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: 2008-10-22 >>> 07:23 >>> >> Did you Try Gallery there is a Version 1 which is pretty basic and a >> version 2 which needs SQL >> I run Version 1, not enough pictures to justify a photo Album running >> off Mysql.....Maybe later. >> >> ~David Hazelton >> >> > Gallery? Sorry, never heard of it till now. But I do have a half hearted > start. In you will find a first pass at a > mostly test web page, with links to the directories, which I haven't done > anything to yet. Click on the only .html file there. I used a pix of me & > the missus from spring '04, so its a bit dated. We need to get a more recent > one taken. > > The program I used is KompoZer, apparently part of the KDE GUI accessory's. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.6/1765 - Release Date: 2008-11-03 16:59 > > Gallery is at http://gallery.menalto.com/ You can take a look at mine, I haven't done much.. with it A way for my folks to see some pictures. of grandkids etc. http://www.englishstitch.selfip.com/gallery Again I'm using version 1.X, but most people use 2.x by now. ! have 4 folders on the top page, just click on one of them, to see that gallery. ~David Hazelton From theother_bob at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 23:01:17 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 20:01:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines Message-ID: <433356.31825.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: "wdg3rd at comcast.net" To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 12:42:47 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines What's this about security POKEs?? Do you mean making programs unLISTable?? Those were all easily broken (well, actually, the philosophy which inspired them was broken to begin with, handicapping the players in that game). -- Ward Griffiths? ? wdg3rd at comcast.net Well I've been away from it for too long to remember offhand but there is one specific poke I used that disables Basic polling of the Break key, although you *can* still test for it by ascii code or peek. The result is that you can control what happens when the user presses Break and Basic is sped up significantly, literally 10-20% I'd estimate. While the CoCo 3's SECB does have a Break key disable, but you don't get the speed increase, The specific POKE is documented in a list of pokes I found online, and I documented my use of it and other Basic tweaks?in Color FOG Unravelled. Bob http://www.geocities.com/theother_bob From gene.heskett at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 06:56:37 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:56:37 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Linux RBF filesystem support In-Reply-To: <490FC598.30203@comcast.net> References: <200811012247.51677.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <490FC598.30203@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200811040656.37392.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Monday 03 November 2008, David Hazelton wrote: >Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Saturday 01 November 2008, David Hazelton wrote: >>> Gene Heskett wrote: >>>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote: >>>>> On Monday 20 October 2008, Carlos Bragatto wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Gene Heskett >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> My, how time fly's when one is busy. And I have been. I spent the >>>>>>> summer building an attached garage with little help, see >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to see what has been occupying my >>>>>>> time. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Kudos! >>>>>> >>>>>> But Gene, couldn't you generate a web album using something like >>>>>> JAlbum? It generates fantastic web albums, and if you have a >>>>>> Macintosh, you can use Bananalbum, which is way cooler. >>>>>> >>>>>> Carlos >>>>> >>>>> All linux house here, and a quick search of yumex's offerings didn't >>>>> find JAlbum. >>>>> >>>>> I have been playing some with Amaya, but that has a very steep learning >>>>> curve. I just found I have bluefish installed & maybe I can cobble up >>>>> something in it. OTOH, a quick google search found it, & its dl'ing >>>>> bow. >>>> >>>> But JAlbum crashed early in the install, so I have NDI if it works or >>>> not. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: >>>> 2008-10-22 07:23 >>> >>> Did you Try Gallery there is a Version 1 which is pretty basic and a >>> version 2 which needs SQL >>> I run Version 1, not enough pictures to justify a photo Album running >>> off Mysql.....Maybe later. >>> >>> ~David Hazelton >> >> Gallery? Sorry, never heard of it till now. But I do have a half hearted >> start. In you will find a first pass >> at a mostly test web page, with links to the directories, which I haven't >> done anything to yet. Click on the only .html file there. I used a pix >> of me & the missus from spring '04, so its a bit dated. We need to get a >> more recent one taken. >> >> The program I used is KompoZer, apparently part of the KDE GUI >> accessory's. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.6/1765 - Release Date: 2008-11-03 >> 16:59 > >Gallery is at >http://gallery.menalto.com/ > >You can take a look at mine, I haven't done much.. with it A way for my >folks to see some pictures. >of grandkids etc. > >http://www.englishstitch.selfip.com/gallery > Again I'm using version 1.X, but most people use 2.x by now. > >! have 4 folders on the top page, just click on one of them, to see that >gallery. > >~David Hazelton > I have one started with KompoZer, see the only .html file in the top of the tree so far. That will also load an old (Easter 2004) pix of Dee and I. I'll add to the rest of the tree as the mood hits me. I need to make some thumbnails that load the big pix when clicked on. Otherwise the bandwidth will eat your lunch if you are on dialup. Now, where did my round tuit get off too? ;) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "I prefer to think that God is not dead, just drunk" -- John Huston From cdiman7 at flash.net Tue Nov 4 09:18:30 2008 From: cdiman7 at flash.net (Karl Sefcik) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:18:30 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <491059B6.3090605@flash.net> John, Remember, this is Microsoft you're dealing with, not Radio Shack (and the Coco). I don't think there is a way around it, unless there is a super-user key, like in unix. I don't know if it'd do any good to email them and ask, but wait for some others to respond. If you can turn your pc on, maybe you could install Linux and at least get some basic use out of the computer, check with the others about this too. Karl John T Chasteen wrote: > Hello Coco Folks > I just recovered from a computer crash. > When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 > section > Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. > > My question is "How do I get past this problem? > Your help is welcomed > > John > ____________________________________________________________ > Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click here! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cdiman7 at flash.net Tue Nov 4 09:33:59 2008 From: cdiman7 at flash.net (Karl Sefcik) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:33:59 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <49105D57.9020809@flash.net> John, After the first response I sent you, a friend of mine in Canada bought a Vista computer, she swears it was 64 bit. But I found out today, she called Microsoft, and they (she says inadvertently) gave her the product key for the 32 bit version of Vista (up there, she said that both versions are on the disk, maybe there they give them the cds. She had a laptop too, but try calling them, and begging,lol. Let us know what happens. Karl John T Chasteen wrote: > Hello Coco Folks > I just recovered from a computer crash. > When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 > section > Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. > > My question is "How do I get past this problem? > Your help is welcomed > > John > ____________________________________________________________ > Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click here! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Tue Nov 4 11:40:43 2008 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:40:43 -0200 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <49107B0B.90706@adinet.com.uy> The way I see it, you have 3 options 1)_ Wait 'till you get your key back 2)_ Get a key using a P2P program (That will turn your software into a pirate copy, since the key is not the one you paid for) 3)_ Install Thunderbird or any other free email client I would suggest # 3.... Diego John T Chasteen wrote: > Hello Coco Folks > I just recovered from a computer crash. > When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 > section > Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. > > My question is "How do I get past this problem? > Your help is welcomed > > John > ____________________________________________________________ > Visa, MasterCard, AMEX& Discover. Compare Offers& Apply Online. Click here! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From bkheath at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 12:44:46 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:44:46 -0800 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <49107B0B.90706@adinet.com.uy> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> <49107B0B.90706@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: Any friends nearby with the same version of Outlook? Not sure if this will work on a particular App (or even if it still works at all) but I used to run a lab full of Win 95 machines and they didn't care if the key used was the specific one sent out with that copy, only that it was a valid key. Anyway, you could maybe use the key from a friend with the same version of Outlook to get yours running until you can get access to the "real" key. I don't know about the legalities of this though. HTH Brett K. Heath On 11/4/08, Diego Barizo wrote: > The way I see it, you have 3 options > > 1)_ Wait 'till you get your key back > 2)_ Get a key using a P2P program (That will turn your software into a > pirate copy, since the key is not the one you paid for) > 3)_ Install Thunderbird or > any other free email client > > I would suggest # 3.... > > Diego > > John T Chasteen wrote: >> Hello Coco Folks >> I just recovered from a computer crash. >> When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 >> section >> Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. >> >> My question is "How do I get past this problem? >> Your help is welcomed >> >> John >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Visa, MasterCard, AMEX& Discover. Compare Offers& Apply Online. Click >> here! >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From dml_68 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 13:02:43 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:02:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Bob Withers' graphics adventures page In-Reply-To: <20081102201429.A924420A37@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <430783.75922.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow!! What a great collection and info about each game Thank you ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Roger Taylor wrote: From: Roger Taylor Subject: [Coco] Bob Withers' graphics adventures page To: "cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 12:14 PM Check this out. I've revamped Bob Withers' CoCo adventures page. If you've got VCC installed (CoCo 3 emulator) you can click on "Play Now" next to each adventure to launch them online. The source code and maps are also available next to each title as well as a full-size copy of the product graphics associated with each title. http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=BobWithers -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dml_68 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 13:06:52 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:06:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update Message-ID: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a HUGE collection of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with index. My question is this. Would it be better if I uploaded them as a single big archive or if I upload each individual disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using Rapidshare as my online storage host. Let me know what you would prefer Derek ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From mechacoco at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 14:12:26 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:12:26 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811041112r55fdfafmd602227c38bc1823@mail.gmail.com> On 11/4/08, Derek wrote: > Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a HUGE collection > of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with index. My question is this. Would it be > better if I uploaded them as a single big archive or if I upload each > individual disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using Rapidshare > as my online storage host. > > Let me know what you would prefer -- I would suggest that the index be posted as an individual file and the disks posted as archives containing at least 10 disks each. Darren From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 14:24:01 2008 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:24:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811041112r55fdfafmd602227c38bc1823@mail.gmail.com> References: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5d802cd0811041112r55fdfafmd602227c38bc1823@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Darren A wrote: > On 11/4/08, Derek wrote: >> Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a HUGE collection >> of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with index. My question is this. Would it be >> better if I uploaded them as a single big archive or if I upload each >> individual disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using Rapidshare >> as my online storage host. >> >> Let me know what you would prefer > > -- > > I would suggest that the index be posted as an individual file and the > disks posted as archives containing at least 10 disks each. Seconded. -- From neilsmorr at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 14:24:13 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:24:13 -0800 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <93f331ac0811041124h53a3043axdbd0e276a7632254@mail.gmail.com> You can install a version of Thunderbird on a thumb drive and use it on any computer. Might be worth a shot. Personally I use Windows Live Mail which is a free client. Neil From farna at att.net Tue Nov 4 19:41:44 2008 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:41:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 Message-ID: <4910EBC8.5040900@att.net> If you simply must use Outlook, the only thing you can do is get someone to e-mail you the key from their Office 2003 disk and see if that works. MS won't be of much help, but then again they may if you give the registered name and address. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though. The best solution may be to use a different e-mail program. There are several free ones that aren't hard to use and can be downloaded. I'd try Mozilla Thunderbird (what I use on my XP machine) -- http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/ There are others, but T-bird is pretty easy to set up and use. Alternately you could download a Linux "Live CD" that will run off the CD-ROM, you don't have to install it on your hard drive (but can). It won't mess up your Windows hard drive, but will set up a file area for Linux to use for temp files and such. It's just another folder on the drive as far as Windows is concerned. I'd suggest something easy to work with like MEPIS or Mint. But that's a lot of work just to read your e-mail! If you are considering Linux anyway now might be a good time though. ------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 01:37:00 -0500 From: John T Chasteen Hello Coco Folks I just recovered from a computer crash. When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 section Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. My question is "How do I get past this problem? Your help is welcomed -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 20:34:26 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:34:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <870189.55417.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> One Solution: use WinRAR to create one big archive, but have it break the archive into 100MB pieces as it archives them all. (the most common solution I've seen used.) -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update > To: "CoCo List" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 12:06 PM > Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a > HUGE collection of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with > index. My question is this. Would it be better if I uploaded > them as a single big archive or if I upload each individual > disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using > Rapidshare as my online storage host. > > Let me know what you would prefer > Derek > From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 4 21:09:43 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:09:43 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <870189.55417.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <870189.55417.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49110067.9080303@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Bill Barnes wrote: > One Solution: use WinRAR to create one big archive, but have it break > the archive into 100MB pieces as it archives them all. (the most > common solution I've seen used.) But doesn't that still mean that you have to download the whole archive if you only want a couple of the images ? Which I guess is one of the reasons for spliting it up. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From gmajor at videotron.ca Tue Nov 4 22:16:41 2008 From: gmajor at videotron.ca (Guillaume Major) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:16:41 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update References: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think it would be best to upload a single big archive since almost everybody on this list will want the whole collection and coco disk images are rather pretty small. Thank you very much for your Rainbow scans! Guillaume "Derek" wrote in message news:419994.4712.qm at web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com... > Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a HUGE > collection of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with index. My question is this. > Would it be better if I uploaded them as a single big archive or if I > upload each individual disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am > using Rapidshare as my online storage host. > > Let me know what you would prefer > Derek > > > > ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** > > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 23:02:26 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:02:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <49110067.9080303@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <630889.12077.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah, that would mean downloading all 121 images... Im guessing that would only be about 21-22 Megs uncompressed. But I guess it depends on if one issue of T&D = one image. Guess a balance needs to be struck between those who wish for the whole archive, and those who just want an issue or two if the archive size is bigger than I've guessed it would be. -Later! -WB-? ?? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: > From: Phill Harvey-Smith > Subject: Re: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:09 PM > Bill Barnes wrote: > > One Solution: use WinRAR to create one big archive, > but have it break > > the archive into 100MB pieces as it archives them all. > (the most > > common solution I've seen used.) > > But doesn't that still mean that you have to download > the whole archive > if you only want a couple of the images ? Which I guess is > one of the reasons for spliting it up. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and > general eccentric ! > > "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't > budge" -- Rush. From tjseagrove at writeme.com Wed Nov 5 07:05:14 2008 From: tjseagrove at writeme.com (Tom Seagrove) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:05:14 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <419994.4712.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c93f3e$c37f1e60$4a7d5b20$@com> Once compressed, I believe you will see the file is not that big compared to a pdf of a magazine. If it must be split, divide it in 2 pieces... Tom -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Derek Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:07 PM To: CoCo List Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a HUGE collection of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with index. My question is this. Would it be better if I uploaded them as a single big archive or if I upload each individual disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using Rapidshare as my online storage host. Let me know what you would prefer Derek ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.6/1765 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 4:59 PM From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 08:53:31 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 05:53:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <870189.55417.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <219147.1521.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That is how I did it with my large coco and software documents archive and rapidshare makes you split it up as the largest file size you can have is 200MB. I just wanted to know if people wanted to pick and choose each small disk image file or wanted to download the entire archive all at once. ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Bill Barnes wrote: From: Bill Barnes Subject: Re: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 5:34 PM One Solution: use WinRAR to create one big archive, but have it break the archive into 100MB pieces as it archives them all. (the most common solution I've seen used.) -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update > To: "CoCo List" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 12:06 PM > Thanks to Grandpa John for his hard work I will be posting a > HUGE collection of T&D disks numbered 1 to 121 with > index. My question is this. Would it be better if I uploaded > them as a single big archive or if I upload each individual > disk image as a single file? Keep in mind I am using > Rapidshare as my online storage host. > > Let me know what you would prefer > Derek > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdiffendaffer at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 09:52:07 2008 From: jdiffendaffer at yahoo.com (James Diffendaffer) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:07 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Upcoming Software Archive Update Message-ID: I vote for one file. In this day and age I really don't see the point in splitting it up. From neilsmorr at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 13:45:18 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:45:18 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update References: <219147.1521.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5FE78684C3DC4B6095332189EEEAD7EF@NewBaby> Rapidshare.de allows 300 Mb. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek" That is how I did it with my large coco and software documents archive and rapidshare makes you split it up as the largest file size you can have is 200MB. I just wanted to know if people wanted to pick and choose each small disk image file or wanted to download the entire archive all at once. From dml_68 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 08:47:15 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 05:47:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update In-Reply-To: <5FE78684C3DC4B6095332189EEEAD7EF@NewBaby> Message-ID: <486476.55560.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a subscription to rapidshare (which is different than the rapidshare.de) which gives members 500GB (yes that GB) of storage per account so that is why I am using them as the file hoster Have car troubles here but will get the uploads done very soon. Derek ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Neil Morrison wrote: From: Neil Morrison Subject: Re: [Coco] Upcoming Software Archive Update To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 10:45 AM Rapidshare.de allows 300 Mb. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek" That is how I did it with my large coco and software documents archive and rapidshare makes you split it up as the largest file size you can have is 200MB. I just wanted to know if people wanted to pick and choose each small disk image file or wanted to download the entire archive all at once. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From johnguin at hotmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:54:55 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:54:55 -0800 Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question In-Reply-To: <48FF2D74.1030301@adinet.com.uy> References: <0AF64DA1-1E2A-47BF-885E-B8A17177D10F@verizon.net> <48FF2D74.1030301@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: Say all, First, a shameless plug: I got a good blog article out of the BASIC optimization question I asked earlier. The full article is here: http://blogs.msdn.com/johnguin/archive/2008/11/06/how-my-old-microsoft-8-bit -basic-coding-skills-caused-me-to-fail-a-code-review.aspx. The summary is modern coding conventions tend to instantiate variables immediately before their use rather than at the beginning of a program in BASIC. Following the "old" guidelines is verboten. The follow on question. Does anyone know about how much time was consumed by the interpretation process relative to actually executing the code? I seem to remember compiled BASIC programs running 200% or more faster than interpreted BASIC, but I'm wondering if anyone ever quantified the timing. Thanks all, John From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 6 20:24:43 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:24:43 +0000 Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question In-Reply-To: References: <0AF64DA1-1E2A-47BF-885E-B8A17177D10F@verizon.net> <48FF2D74.1030301@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: <491398DB.5010508@aurigae.demon.co.uk> John wrote: > Say all, > The summary is modern coding conventions tend to instantiate variables > immediately before their use rather than at the beginning of a program in > BASIC. Following the "old" guidelines is verboten. Yach! that's one of the things I hate about badly written C programs in perticular is that you can define a variable anywhere in the code stream, it can make tracking down the definition a pain. At least in Pascal/Delphi, you have to declare them at the beginning of the procedure/function/unit/program that they are used. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From jdaggett at gate.net Thu Nov 6 21:02:57 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:02:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question In-Reply-To: References: <0AF64DA1-1E2A-47BF-885E-B8A17177D10F@verizon.net>, <48FF2D74.1030301@adinet.com.uy>, Message-ID: <49135B81.23637.828AF@jdaggett.gate.net> Speed of a compiled program really depends on whether the higher level is compiled to actual machine code level or to an intermedeate code that is interpretted by a run time library. Even with code compiled to machine level there is issues as to how well the generated code is optimized for speed. james On 6 Nov 2008 at 16:54, John wrote: > The follow on question. > > Does anyone know about how much time was consumed by the > interpretation process relative to actually executing the code? I > seem to remember compiled BASIC programs running 200% or more faster > than interpreted BASIC, but I'm wondering if anyone ever quantified > the timing. From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 09:48:09 2008 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 09:48:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] List still alive? Message-ID: Just checking. Haven't seen any postings for almost a week. -- From chawks at dls.net Sat Nov 8 10:19:14 2008 From: chawks at dls.net (Christopher Hawks) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 09:19:14 -0600 Subject: [Coco] List still alive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4915ADF2.5060704@dls.net> Steven Hirsch said the following on 11/08/2008 08:48 AM: > Just checking. Haven't seen any postings for almost a week. 36 hours isn't quite a week, but, it has been eerily quiet... -- Christopher R. Hawks HAWKSoft --------------------------------------------------------- Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste -- ksh at cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93 From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 8 11:43:58 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:43:58 -0500 Subject: [Coco] List still alive? In-Reply-To: <4915ADF2.5060704@dls.net> References: <4915ADF2.5060704@dls.net> Message-ID: <200811081143.58529.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 08 November 2008, Christopher Hawks wrote: >Steven Hirsch said the following on 11/08/2008 08:48 AM: >> Just checking. Haven't seen any postings for almost a week. > > 36 hours isn't quite a week, but, it has been eerily quiet... Too quiet. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) That, that is, is. That, that is not, is not. That, that is, is not that, that is not. That, that is not, is not that, that is. From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 8 12:42:01 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:42:01 -0600 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve Message-ID: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> I'm having a mess of a time trying to get both retrieve.exe and dskini.exe to work on my old Win98 PC. I've got two versions of those utilities, apparently one by Collyer and the originals from Vavasour. I've set my BIOS to every setting possible: 360K 5.25", 720K 3.5", 1.44, and 2.88. The drive is the original 3.5" 1.44 that came with the PC. I've tried both DD and HD floppies, with the write protect and density holes opened and closed. I couldn't remember if the write protect hole should be opened or closed so I tried both. Nothing seems to work. All attempts cause DOS to throw the "Abort/Retry/Ignore/Continue" prompt at me except for one BIOS setting which causes dskini.exe to quickly step through all tracks of the floppy in about one second similar to if the head is seeking track 0 from the last track. ZipppPpppPPPpp, then the DOS prompt as if the action was successful. It was not. The floppy remains blank afterwards. Is there any kind of MS-DOS or Windows 98 tool out there works better than these Vavasour tools? -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From theother_bob at yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 14:44:11 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:44:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question Message-ID: <961709.29369.qm@web81506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In practical programming, speed gained by compiled vs. interpreted Basic would be significantly dependent on the actual function of the program as well as how well optimized the code is (both interpreted and post-compiled optimization matter.) Programs that would gain the most from being compiled would be those using simpler Basic commands whereas programs that use a lot of more advanced functions (graphics commands that already rely on longer ML loops for example) would not?see as much gain. The simpler the function, the more "overhead per instruction" used?by an interpreter. I seem to recall (but could be imagining) that Basic compilers for the CoCo claimed?"up to hundreds of times faster"?speed increase... always with?the key phrase "up to," Bob ? ----- Original Message ---- From: John To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:54:55 PM Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question Say all, First, a shameless plug: I got a good blog article out of the BASIC optimization question I asked earlier.? The full article is here: http://blogs.msdn.com/johnguin/archive/2008/11/06/how-my-old-microsoft-8-bit -basic-coding-skills-caused-me-to-fail-a-code-review.aspx. The summary is modern coding conventions tend to instantiate variables immediately before their use rather than at the beginning of a program in BASIC.? Following the "old" guidelines is verboten. The follow on question. Does anyone know about how much time was consumed by the interpretation process relative to actually executing the code?? I seem to remember compiled BASIC programs running 200% or more faster than interpreted BASIC, but I'm wondering if anyone ever quantified the timing. Thanks all, John -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From brucewcalkins at charter.net Sat Nov 8 15:39:27 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 15:39:27 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve References: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <3B64D4975D45414E8C93A92D13ACC0E9@speedy> > I'm having a mess of a time trying to get both retrieve.exe and dskini.exe > to work on my old Win98 PC. > > > Is there any kind of MS-DOS or Windows 98 tool out there works better than > these Vavasour tools? > > -- > Roger Taylor I recall that problem, but I'm having difficulty ATM remembering what the solution was. 1); the window is closed to write a 3.5 disk. 2): the 1.44, 3.5" BIOS setting should work. The crossed up setting, was using the 720 setting for a 360 drive. Do I recall that some 3.5" drives could not work at the slower speeds? I don't know of any programs for reading CoCo disks to DSK files yet. Please let me know if you do find any. Bruce W. From wdg3rd at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 17:01:22 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:01:22 +0000 Subject: [Coco] List still alive? Message-ID: <110820082201.12075.49160C320000B14600002F2B22007613940B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> From: Christopher Hawks > Steven Hirsch said the following on 11/08/2008 08:48 AM: > > Just checking. Haven't seen any postings for almost a week. > > 36 hours isn't quite a week, but, it has been eerily quiet... > > -- > Christopher R. Hawks > HAWKSoft > --------------------------------------------------------- > Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste > -- ksh at cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93 Some of us have day jobs. I love the Color Computer but I also have to pay property taxes. -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ From wdg3rd at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 17:07:18 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:07:18 +0000 Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon question Message-ID: <110820082207.27018.49160D960005BC780000698A22058891160B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> And any program that requests input, mox nix. Even a compiled program will spend more time waiting than running. (Sorry, I was on the phone), -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: theother_bob > In practical programming, speed gained by compiled vs. interpreted Basic would > be significantly dependent on the actual function of the program as well as how > well optimized the code is (both interpreted and post-compiled optimization > matter.) Programs that would gain the most from being compiled would be those > using simpler Basic commands whereas programs that use a lot of more advanced > functions (graphics commands that already rely on longer ML loops for example) > would not?see as much gain. The simpler the function, the more "overhead per > instruction" used?by an interpreter. > > I seem to recall (but could be imagining) that Basic compilers for the CoCo > claimed?"up to hundreds of times faster"?speed increase... always with?the key > phrase "up to," > > Bob > > ? > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:54:55 PM > Subject: [Coco] the upshot from the optimizing BASIC code mail and a followon > question > > Say all, > > First, a shameless plug: I got a good blog article out of the BASIC > optimization question I asked earlier.? The full article is here: > http://blogs.msdn.com/johnguin/archive/2008/11/06/how-my-old-microsoft-8-bit > -basic-coding-skills-caused-me-to-fail-a-code-review.aspx. > > The summary is modern coding conventions tend to instantiate variables > immediately before their use rather than at the beginning of a program in > BASIC.? Following the "old" guidelines is verboten. > > The follow on question. > > Does anyone know about how much time was consumed by the interpretation > process relative to actually executing the code?? I seem to remember > compiled BASIC programs running 200% or more faster than interpreted BASIC, > but I'm wondering if anyone ever quantified the timing. > > Thanks all, > John > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 8 17:11:00 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:11:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve In-Reply-To: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811081711.00395.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 08 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >I'm having a mess of a time trying to get both retrieve.exe and >dskini.exe to work on my old Win98 PC. > >I've got two versions of those utilities, apparently one by Collyer >and the originals from Vavasour. I've set my BIOS to every setting >possible: 360K 5.25", 720K 3.5", 1.44, and 2.88. The drive is the >original 3.5" 1.44 that came with the PC. I've tried both DD and HD >floppies, with the write protect and density holes opened and >closed. I couldn't remember if the write protect hole should be >opened or closed so I tried both. > >Nothing seems to work. All attempts cause DOS to throw the >"Abort/Retry/Ignore/Continue" prompt at me except for one BIOS >setting which causes dskini.exe to quickly step through all tracks of >the floppy in about one second similar to if the head is seeking >track 0 from the last track. ZipppPpppPPPpp, then the DOS prompt as >if the action was successful. It was not. The floppy remains blank >afterwards. > >Is there any kind of MS-DOS or Windows 98 tool out there works better >than these Vavasour tools? I don't have any emulators setup here Roger, so you might try what I do here, which is to format the disk according to the size of the image, on the coco using the nitros9 format command after setting the descriptor with dmode. Then, bring the disk to this machine and insert it. Run "dmesg", the tail end of which should tell you what 'device' udev gave it when it discovered a disk had been inserted, then using setfdprm, tell linux the type of disk it is in that device. Then, using dd, the linux version of rawwrite, dd the image to that device. If paranoid, reverse the dd syntax and read it back to a different filename and compare them, or just eject and take it back to the coco. If using 3.5", be sure and use a DD diskette, cuz the coco can't handle the HD's 500 kilobit data rate without mods that only work on 1 or 2 controllers. Write protect is with the hole blocked IIRC. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A man gazing at the stars is proverbially at the mercy of the puddles in the road. -- Alexander Smith From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 8 17:12:34 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:12:34 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve In-Reply-To: <3B64D4975D45414E8C93A92D13ACC0E9@speedy> References: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> <3B64D4975D45414E8C93A92D13ACC0E9@speedy> Message-ID: <200811081712.34852.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 08 November 2008, Bruce W. Calkins wrote: >> I'm having a mess of a time trying to get both retrieve.exe and dskini.exe >> to work on my old Win98 PC. >> >> >> Is there any kind of MS-DOS or Windows 98 tool out there works better than >> these Vavasour tools? >> >> -- >> Roger Taylor > >I recall that problem, but I'm having difficulty ATM remembering what the >solution was. > > > >1); the window is closed to write a 3.5 disk. > >2): the 1.44, 3.5" BIOS setting should work. The crossed up setting, was >using the 720 setting for a 360 drive. > > > >Do I recall that some 3.5" drives could not work at the slower speeds? > > > >I don't know of any programs for reading CoCo disks to DSK files yet. Please >let me know if you do find any. > > > >Bruce W. If a DSK file is a pure image of the disk, then the linux dd utility can do exactly that. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Bacon's not the only thing that's cured by hanging from a string. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Sat Nov 8 19:25:15 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:25:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve References: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com><3B64D4975D45414E8C93A92D13ACC0E9@speedy> <200811081712.34852.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <270E11EA35A24D3CAE28B51AEB14A4F0@speedy> >> I don't know of any programs for reading CoCo disks to DSK files yet. >> Please >> let me know if you do find any. >> Bruce W. >> >> > > If a DSK file is a pure image of the disk, then the linux dd utility can > do > exactly that. > > -- > Cheers, Gene One more nail in M$ coming coffin. Bruce W. From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 8 22:26:21 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:26:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve In-Reply-To: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081108174217.B4D8C20A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <4916585D.4040903@worldnet.att.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > I'm having a mess of a time trying to get both retrieve.exe and > dskini.exe to work on my old Win98 PC. > > I've got two versions of those utilities, apparently one by Collyer and > the originals from Vavasour. I've set my BIOS to every setting > possible: 360K 5.25", 720K 3.5", 1.44, and 2.88. The drive is the > original 3.5" 1.44 that came with the PC. I've tried both DD and HD > floppies, with the write protect and density holes opened and closed. I > couldn't remember if the write protect hole should be opened or closed > so I tried both. > > Nothing seems to work. All attempts cause DOS to throw the > "Abort/Retry/Ignore/Continue" prompt at me except for one BIOS setting > which causes dskini.exe to quickly step through all tracks of the floppy > in about one second similar to if the head is seeking track 0 from the > last track. ZipppPpppPPPpp, then the DOS prompt as if the action was > successful. It was not. The floppy remains blank afterwards. > > Is there any kind of MS-DOS or Windows 98 tool out there works better > than these Vavasour tools? > I've never had any problems with these programs with a standard 3.5" drive. The write-protect hole should be closed to permit writing. Any problems with these programs will either be BIOS related or memory related. I've never had any problems using the default BIOS settings. I normally have a config.sys file as follows: device=c:\windows\himem.sys /testmem:OFF dos=high,umb device=c:\windows\emm386.exe ram From smostrom7 at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 23:39:38 2008 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:39:38 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes Message-ID: I'm sort of a packrat. OK, I have an obsession with old Coco software. I tend to buy original software in my feeble attempt to have just about every software package ever put out for the Coco. It's a fun hobby, and I'm running out of room. I also like to purchase eBay offerings of old Coco backup software as well. I probably have well over 2000 "backup" diskettes now. Almost all of these original and backup diskettes have been transferred to my Cloud-9 hard drive system. I'm currently working on hard drive cartridge #24 for my software backups, each cartridge holding the equivalent of 256 Coco diskettes. Now, to get to my main reason for writing this e-mail. These diskettes of backup software have many different manufacturers. Most are blank generics. Some are name-brand. After roughly 25 years of storage, more than 98% of these diskettes are still in excellent condition, with all the software still readable. Once in awhile I'll get an I/O error, but many of these will eventually read since the I/O error is often dust particles or bug poop. They seem to clear themselves after a few tries with backup. The one brand of diskette that consistantly causes problems is Memorex. Given the amount of advertising that Memorex did back in the 80's for diskettes and audio tape, I would have guessed these would be among the best brands. What I've noticed is the magnetic coating appears to be flaking off the surface. Placing one of these bad diskettes in the drive will cause the drive to sound like there is a piece of sandpaper stuck in there. The diskette is usually totally unreadable, and I will need to clean my drive heads after trying to read one of these bad disks. Also, not only are Memorex diskettes the worst brand, but most of the Memorex disks I try are bad. -- Steve -- From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 00:17:20 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:17:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <526072.9310.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As a side note, I've seen the cheaper Memorex cassette tapes show problems with producing the same audio range as say BASF and TDK (of being the same age.) -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Ostrom wrote: > From: Steve Ostrom > Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:39 PM > ... The one brand of diskette that consistantly causes > problems is Memorex. Given the amount of advertising that > Memorex did back in the 80's for diskettes and audio > tape, I would have guessed these would be among the best > brands. ... > > -- Steve -- From bkheath at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 06:07:03 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 03:07:03 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. Message-ID: How can I put this? It's working! It's working! (cue Mad Laughter:-). In other words the kernel is basically done. It still needs some clean-up and detailed testing but it opens files and loads (compiles) source from them which is it's purpose in life. One of the first things it needs to load is the rest of the file interface (Mainly creating and deleting files). and that brings me to my first set of questions. The intention is to have versions that are compatible with as many set-ups as possible, so to save headaches later it's a good idea to factor the code with an eye to compatibility. With one exception the file interface to Disk EDTASM and OS9 (and presumably Nitros) looks to be fairly straightforward. The exception is determining file size. The only way I see to do this in EDTASM DOS is to do repeated reads if increasing record numbers until an error is returned, inelegant to say the least. I also didn't see any way to directly query OS9 for file-size. Have I missed something? A more fundamental problem is that I haven't found any way to find out from RSDOS if a diskette has been changed, and thus that the resident RAM copy of a drive's FAT is no longer valid. Please tell me that I've missed something. More generally, what other OS's exist for the Coco (1, 2, or 3), how widely used are they, and where can I find documentation on their system call conventions (Disk and Console)? Which leads me to my second set of questions, at first glance they may seem random and unrelated but they all represent potential solutions to a major development bottleneck so bear with me please. Is there any way to get Vavasours Coco 2 emulator to treat the bit-banger like a bidirectional serial port (virtual or physical)? Is there another way to get Vavasours Coco 2 emulator to do serial I/O? Less important but very annoying, how can I get polcat to return a control-code on the Coco 2 emulator? Where does xmess 0.106 look for it's ROM images (Under Gentoo AMD64 2008.beta) and does it support serial I/O (virtual or physical)? Is there any hope of getting an 80 column screen on the Coco 2 emu (yeah yeah, I know, don't laugh;-)? Has _anybody_ gotten either of the Keil emulators to run under dosemu, or even tried? Bearing in mind that I own neither a Coco 3, nor a Coco disk system (other than the Glenside IDE), nor a serial cartridge pak, is there another way to get serial I/O (virtual or physical) and or an 80 column out of a Coco emulator without breaking Intellectual property rights beyond all recognition? Some means of serial would be best, as it would solve several problems. That's more than enough brain-picking for now. \*** Teaser1 In the thread on optimizing Basic someone mentioned what a pain it could be to find variable declarations . In f83 you merely type 'view "name"' and it lists the source screen where "name" is defined, be it variable, constant, or command. \*** Teaser2 The RPN syntax takes some getting used to, but it is more than made up for by having control structures built-in to the assembler. For example: 0 \ Low-level disk buffer management 08Nov08BKH 1 HEX 2 xasm09 LABEL >CHAIN? ( uses X,Y,D returns X,D,CC Z-bit ) 3 X -2 , LDY, NE IF, D Y EXG, X D, LEAX, Y D EXG, THEN, RTS, 4 9code DRV-CTL? (S drv dcb0 -- drv dcbn flag ) 5 U 0 , LDX, U 3 , LDA, 6 BEGIN, X 1 , CMPA, EQ IF, U 0 , STX, YES BRA, 7 THEN, >CHAIN? BSR, EQ UNTIL, 8 U 0 , LDX, U 3 , LDA, ( No match, any free? ) 9 BEGIN, X 1 , TST, MI IF, U 0 , STX, YES BRA, 10 THEN, >CHAIN? BSR, EQ UNTIL, U 0 , STX, NO BRA, C; And it's associated comment screen; 0 \ Low-level disk buffer management 08Nov08BKH 1 >CHAIN? Subroutine to move to next DCB in chain if it exists, 2 otherwise return current (last) dcb and set CC Z flag. 3 Enter with DCB in X,.Alters Y and returns DCB address in X. 4 5 DRV-CTL? Scan the linked list of existing DCB's for one we 6 can use. First we check them all for one already assigned to 7 the drive. If we find one, we return the drive #, the dcb's 8 address, and TRUE. If not we look for a free DCB to return. 9 If we find neither we return the last DCB defined and FALSE. Is much easier to decipher than a long list peppered with a dozen labels (After you get used to it anyway). Backslash and parenthesis denote comments, the line #'s are an artifact of the editor and not part of the source. 9code marks the beginning of a named dictionary entry which can be executed from the command line or included as part of high-level source. \*** Teaser3 The Interpreter and the Compiler use Identical syntax, so you could type the above code definition in at the terminal spanning multiple lines (but without line numbers) and it would be immediately available to execute from the command line or use in subsequent high level definitions. This makes prototyping and testing incredibly quick and easy. Brett K. Heath From jlhickle at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 07:54:00 2008 From: jlhickle at yahoo.com (Jim Hickle) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:54:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88661.51864.qm@web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Ostrom wrote: The one brand of diskette that consistantly causes problems is Memorex. Given the amount of advertising that Memorex did back in the 80's for diskettes and audio tape, I would have guessed these would be among the best brands. According to a newsletter from totalmedia.com a few years ago, Memorex never had a high quality product. The adverts fooled me, thought. Our company bought a dozen Memorex DVD-RAM disks a few years ago; nine of them wouldn't work at all. From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sun Nov 9 08:30:02 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:30:02 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: <88661.51864.qm@web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <88661.51864.qm@web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200811090830.02756.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Sunday 09 November 2008, Jim Hickle wrote: >--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Ostrom wrote: > The one brand of >diskette that consistantly causes problems is Memorex. Given the amount of >advertising that Memorex did back in the 80's for diskettes and audio tape, >I would have guessed these would be among the best brands. > > >According to a newsletter from totalmedia.com a few years ago, Memorex never > had a high quality product. The adverts fooled me, thought. Our company > bought a dozen Memorex DVD-RAM disks a few years ago; nine of them wouldn't > work at all. > Similar story here, bought a 100 pack of cdr's. About 50% usable. I simply added them to the list of brands I won't touch with a barge pole. The parent company of memorex (its just a brand name they own) sold a scanner that sane had a driver for, so I bought one. A month later it came up dead after a lightning storm, the only gear failure I've had since re-wiring this setup so it all runs through one humongus surge suppressor, which in turn feeds a 1500 WA ups that feeds everything in here but the overhead lights. Took it back. No warranty, I was using it with (insert distastful grimace here) linux. So I went across the street and bought an Epson 1250u. Now its 8 years later and it still works very very well. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I'm not going to say, "I told you so." From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 10:38:55 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:38:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: <200811090830.02756.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hmmm, got some HP CDRs here, on a few burners I can burn at full rated speed, but on others, it has to be at a slower than rated speed or else some CD-ROM drives have issues reading them. Wonder if that is the same type of deal. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Gene Heskett wrote: > From: Gene Heskett > Subject: Re: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:30 AM > On Sunday 09 November 2008, Jim Hickle wrote: > >--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Ostrom > wrote: > > The one brand of > >diskette that consistantly causes problems is Memorex. > Given the amount of > >advertising that Memorex did back in the 80's for > diskettes and audio tape, > >I would have guessed these would be among the best > brands. > > > > > >According to a newsletter from totalmedia.com a few > years ago, Memorex never > > had a high quality product. The adverts fooled me, > thought. Our company > > bought a dozen Memorex DVD-RAM disks a few years ago; > nine of them wouldn't > > work at all. > > > Similar story here, bought a 100 pack of cdr's. About > 50% usable. I simply > added them to the list of brands I won't touch with a > barge pole. The parent > company of memorex (its just a brand name they own) sold a > scanner that sane > had a driver for, so I bought one. A month later it came > up dead after a > lightning storm, the only gear failure I've had since > re-wiring this setup so > it all runs through one humongus surge suppressor, which in > turn feeds a 1500 > WA ups that feeds everything in here but the overhead > lights. Took it back. > No warranty, I was using it with (insert distastful grimace > here) linux. > > So I went across the street and bought an Epson 1250u. Now > its 8 years later > and it still works very very well. > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of > liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that > order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > I'm not going to say, "I told you so." > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From Torsten at Dittel.info Sun Nov 9 11:14:57 2008 From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:14:57 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200811090830.02756.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Bill Barnes schrieb: > Hmmm, got some HP CDRs here, on a few burners I can burn at full rated speed, but on others, it has to be at a slower than rated speed or else some CD-ROM drives have issues reading them. Wonder if that is the same type of deal. Regarding CDRs, besides there are better and worse qualities available (although most brands come from the same few fabrics, I guess the quality testing is more or less extensive) and this or that technology (gold, silver, azo, green, brown, etc.), I meanwhile got the idea, your CDR burner has to "know" the media to achieve good results. I have heard, when it all startet with 1x speed, the CD burners did some test burning on an unused part of the disc, to calibrate the laser power before burning the actual data (even before writing the lead in). Nowadays, it seems to try to recognize the brand (how ever that works) and to use some laser calibration preset, stored in the firmware. The older your burner, the less likely it is able to work with newer brands of madia without random result (might work, might not work). So you should always try to find the latest firmware for your drive. E.g. my good old YAMAHA F1 (the first one able to write nice holografic pictures on the unused border of the CDR), latest firmware, is working best with 52x Verbatim DatalifePlus with SuperAzo coating burned at 16x, especially for Audio CDs. Regards, Torsten From mrfrosty30701 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 22:49:43 2008 From: mrfrosty30701 at yahoo.com (Stan Mooney) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:49:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Question about BASIC coding guidelines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <935183.24811.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> they are indeed stored as literal ASCII representations of the number you can also increase the speed by converting statements like ?????? IF A=100 THEN GOTO 1000 ??????????????? to ?????? IF A=100 THEN 1000 and ?????? IF A=150 THEN GOSUB 1200 ??????????????? to ????? IF A=150 GOSUB 1200 the GOTO is unneseccary in a "THEN GOTO" statement and the THEN is unnecessary in a "THEN GOSUB" statement (and, of course, all the spaces i put in the examples also waste time and memory-- but i included them to make them easier to read) laters carl --- On Thu, 10/30/08, James Diffendaffer wrote: From: James Diffendaffer Subject: Re: [Color Computer] [Coco] Question about BASIC coding guidelines To: ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 2:19 PM --- In ColorComputer@ yahoogroups. com, shadow at ... wrote: > Not sure if CoCo BASIC does this or not, but in other TRS-80 BASICs > the line numbers for THEN, GOTO, GOSUB, etc are stored as literals. > > Thus "GOTO 1000" takes two more bytes than "GOTO 10". > > This makes a speed difference as well. I know some BASICs tokenize the number (store it as a 16bit integer) which makes the code smaller and faster (ok... if you don't get out of single digit line numbers it might not be smaller). I don't remember what the CoCo does. From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 11:19:35 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:19:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <912848.58308.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll double check that then, however the drive that I've seen the reads it back ok, but sometimes other drives have a problem is a Lite-On (if I remember right) DL DVD+-RW. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Torsten Dittel wrote: > From: Torsten Dittel > Subject: Re: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes > To: coco at maltedmedia.com > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:14 AM > Bill Barnes schrieb: > > Hmmm, got some HP CDRs here, on a few burners I can > burn at full rated speed, but on others, it has to be at a > slower than rated speed or else some CD-ROM drives have > issues reading them. Wonder if that is the same type of > deal. > > Regarding CDRs, besides there are better and worse > qualities available (although most brands come from the same > few fabrics, I guess the quality testing is more or less > extensive) and this or that technology (gold, silver, azo, > green, brown, etc.), I meanwhile got the idea, your CDR > burner has to "know" the media to achieve good > results. I have heard, when it all startet with 1x speed, > the CD burners did some test burning on an unused part of > the disc, to calibrate the laser power before burning the > actual data (even before writing the lead in). Nowadays, it > seems to try to recognize the brand (how ever that works) > and to use some laser calibration preset, stored in the > firmware. The older your burner, the less likely it is able > to work with newer brands of madia without random result > (might work, might not work). So you should always try to > find the latest firmware for your drive. E.g. my good old > YAMAHA F1 (the first one able to write nice holografic > pictures on the unused border of the CDR), latest firmware, > is working best with 52x Verbatim DatalifePlus with SuperAzo > coating burned at 16x, especially for Audio CDs. > > Regards, > Torsten > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From 6809er at bjork-huffman.net Sun Nov 9 11:40:30 2008 From: 6809er at bjork-huffman.net (Steve) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:40:30 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Optical media burn rates In-Reply-To: <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200811090830.02756.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081109164110.0740420A36@qs281.pair.com> When it comes to archiving data, always burn at the lowest speed your media/drive can handle. Why? A fast rate "burns" a lower quality pit into the recordable media. (And these pits can disappear after a bit of time or heat.) Studies have shown that 100 year archive media burned at top speed of optical drive will only last 18 months! That's while using high quality archive media and not the cheap stuff you get at discount store. For me, I only buy high quality archive media on-line from a trusted dealer. Since I get my disks about once a year in large quantity, the price is about the same as the cheap disks. (That way I know it's good recording be it a once shoot use disk or an archive of my system.) Just something that I pickup while I was working at THQ and part of the team that created the DVD standard. Steve Bjork At 07:38 AM 11/9/2008, you wrote: >Hmmm, got some HP CDRs here, on a few burners I can burn at full >rated speed, but on others, it has to be at a slower than rated >speed or else some CD-ROM drives have issues reading them. Wonder if >that is the same type of deal. > >-Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. From johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 9 11:56:03 2008 From: johnadonaldson at sbcglobal.net (John Donaldson) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:56:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MS Office 2003 In-Reply-To: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> References: <20081104.013700.2940.1.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <49171623.7050504@sbcglobal.net> John if all you did was reinstall the OS, then you can use a program that will kisplay the loaded keys on your system. Do a serch for "Key Finder" on the web. I use one at work to keep track of the keys on our various systems, just in case we have to reload the OS. If you had to reload Outlook then the key finder program will not help. John Donaldson John T Chasteen wrote: >Hello Coco Folks >I just recovered from a computer crash. >When I tried to use Outlook to download my mail I have to give the 5 >section >Product Key. Since I am a "Snow Bird, the KEY is in our Summer address. > >My question is "How do I get past this problem? >Your help is welcomed > >John >____________________________________________________________ >Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click here! >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2HXfag5MJfWMaKpk8hqLQUQSCmRNEXHHOfuS1L7XrNoHgV/ > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- From mechacoco at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 12:26:53 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:26:53 -0700 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > > ... > > With one exception the file interface to Disk EDTASM and OS9 (and > presumably Nitros) looks to > be fairly straightforward. The exception is determining file size. The > only way I see to do this > in EDTASM DOS is to do repeated reads if increasing record numbers > until an error is returned, inelegant to say the least. In RSDOS, walking the FAT will tell you many granules the file uses and how many sectors are used in the last granule. Bytes 14 and 15 of the file's directory entry indicate how many bytes are used in the last sector. The file's size can then be calculated as: fileSize = (numGrans - 1) * 2304 + (lastGranSectors - 1) * 256 + lastSectorBytes > A more fundamental problem is that I haven't found any way to find out > from RSDOS if > a diskette has been changed, and thus that the resident RAM copy of a > drive's FAT is no > longer valid. > > Please tell me that I've missed something. Each of the RAM resident FAT tables are preceded by a 6-byte header. Only the first two bytes are used. The first byte indicates how many files are open on the drive. The second byte is the Dirty Flag. When the second byte is 0, the RAM resident FAT has not been modified. Darren From rcrislip at neo.rr.com Sun Nov 9 13:12:04 2008 From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:12:04 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Optical media burn rates In-Reply-To: <20081109164110.0740420A36@qs281.pair.com> References: <200811090830.02756.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <550878.86439.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081109164110.0740420A36@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811091312.05014.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Hi Steve, That piece of advice coisides with what I learned on the video mail list I hang out on. Of course they are talking about DVDs, but the same principle applies. Richard From wdg3rd at comcast.net Sun Nov 9 14:33:58 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:33:58 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Brands Of Old Diskettes Message-ID: <110920081933.23632.49173B260004197300005C5022073007930B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> I don't know where the rest of the company went, but Tandy Corp bought the consumer side of Memorex in the early 80s (which included all audio products). The diskette side was definitely not part of the purchase. That went to Burroughs (now part of Unisys). (Well, it might be -- I haven't been keeping up lately). I worked for Memorex (Memorex Drive in Santa Clara) in the late 70s (fresh out of the USAF), for Tandy for half of the 80s (in Vegas and L.A.), and for Unisys (back up to the Bay Area at the old Convergent Technologies campus) in the early 90s. That was not a continuation of one job, I had several others (including self-employment and unemployment) between those gigs. -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jim Hickle > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Ostrom wrote: > The one brand of > diskette that consistantly causes problems is Memorex. Given the amount of > advertising that Memorex did back in the 80's for diskettes and audio tape, > I would have guessed these would be among the best brands. > > > According to a newsletter from totalmedia.com a few years ago, Memorex never had > a high quality product. The adverts fooled me, thought. Our company bought a > dozen Memorex DVD-RAM disks a few years ago; nine of them wouldn't work at all. > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From bkheath at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 14:47:41 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:47:41 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: > On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: >> >> ... >> >> With one exception the file interface to Disk EDTASM and OS9 (and >> presumably Nitros) looks to >> be fairly straightforward. The exception is determining file size. The >> only way I see to do this >> in EDTASM DOS is to do repeated reads if increasing record numbers >> until an error is returned, inelegant to say the least. > > In RSDOS, walking the FAT will tell you many granules the file uses > and how many sectors are used in the last granule. Bytes 14 and 15 of > the file's directory entry indicate how many bytes are used in the > last sector. The file's size can then be calculated as: > > fileSize = (numGrans - 1) * 2304 + (lastGranSectors - 1) * 256 + > lastSectorBytes > > >> A more fundamental problem is that I haven't found any way to find out >> from RSDOS if >> a diskette has been changed, and thus that the resident RAM copy of a >> drive's FAT is no >> longer valid. >> >> Please tell me that I've missed something. > > Each of the RAM resident FAT tables are preceded by a 6-byte header. > Only the first two bytes are used. The first byte indicates how many > files are open on the drive. The second byte is the Dirty Flag. When > the second byte is 0, the RAM resident FAT has not been modified. > > Darren I wasn't clear. I'm bypassing RSDOS because it's pretty much useless unless you use Basic to make the system calls, which is unacceptable. I've already implemented a SET-SIZE function and most of the other low-level functions needed to emulate a DOS (including dynamically allocated FAT buffers, part of the code for which was pasted as Teaser2) using DSKCON. What I don't see how to do, and what will become critical as I implement functions that modify the FAT and/or Directory sectors, is a way to tell if the user has changed the diskette since the last time the drive was accessed. If I can't get this without Basic taking over on an error I'll have to implement secondary buffers to hold the unmodified FATS and do a read-back and compare before any updates. That's messy, slow, eats memory and will be another PITA on top of having to emulate functions that should be available as system calls. Disk EDTASM and OS9 qualify as actual DOS's so I can let them worry about the low-level stuff like diskette changes. On the other hand, I've already solved the file size issue for RSDOS but didn't see a direct way to get file sizes from the system calls for EDTASM and OS9. If it's necessary the same technique used for RSDOS will work on Disk EDTASM but it's doubtful that OS9 will allow user apps to directly manipulate such sensitive low-level stuff. Getting the file size seem to be pretty basic functionality, perhaps it's available through some of those "wildcard" device status calls? Anyway, sorry for the confusion, I should have realized that if you didn't see my first message on f83 (It's Alive!) or didn't remember most of the details then this last message wouldn't make much sense. Another update. The kernel now loads and runs a slightly modified version of the Flex 6809 Assembler. The modifications were to support long branches and to acommodate the changes made for position independence. The flex assembler has a somewhat cleaner syntax than the CHROMIUM assembler I'm using now and is more compatible with the f83 meta-compiler. I'm going to go play with my new assembler for a while before I go back to slogging through the low-level DOS emulation. Brett K. Heath From deemcr at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 9 15:13:30 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 12:13:30 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Penguin problems... Message-ID: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> The program is Penguin, it is in the April 1990 issue of the Rainbow. On line 890 check is supposed to return 36 if the lines are typed in correctly. Well, there is a misprint and one of the lines isn't completely there. Anyone have a correction for this program? From mechacoco at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 15:25:56 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:25:56 -0700 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > > I wasn't clear. > > ... > > What I don't see how to do, and what will > become critical as I implement functions that > modify the FAT and/or Directory sectors, is a way to tell if the user > has changed the > diskette since the last time the drive was accessed. > > If I can't get this without Basic taking over on an error I'll have to > implement secondary > buffers to hold the unmodified FATS and do a read-back and compare > before any updates. > That's messy, slow, eats memory and will be another PITA on top of > having to emulate functions that should be available as system calls. > RSDOS does not provide any facility to detect if the user has changed diskettes in a drive. It very much relies on the user to do the correct thing by not changing disks while any files are open. There is an UNLOAD command in Disk Basic which is supposed to be used before switching disks to ensure that the current disk is updated if necessary. Darren From deemcr at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 9 18:30:08 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:30:08 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Penguin problems... In-Reply-To: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1226273409.6251.1.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 12:13 -0800, Michael Robinson wrote: > The program is Penguin, it is in the April 1990 issue of the Rainbow. > On line 890 check is supposed to return 36 if the lines are typed in > correctly. Well, there is a misprint and one of the lines isn't > completely there. Anyone have a correction for this program? > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco I found a site by Nick Bradbury, but there doesn't appear to be any way to contact him. Penguin is a cute little arcade game, apparently his last. From deemcr at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 9 18:49:26 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:49:26 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? Message-ID: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> I've heard that an engineering problem in the GIME chip lead to the demise of the Coco. I've heard that the GIME was too expensive. 1990, wasn't the 386 out at that point? In the old days when the Coco was hot, there was real competition in the personal computer market. It wasn't just Apple and vendors selling Windows compatible PC's. Even the Alpha is gone now. From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 9 19:06:15 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:06:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? In-Reply-To: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <49177AF7.7070604@worldnet.att.net> Michael Robinson wrote: > I've heard that an engineering problem in the GIME chip lead to the > demise of the Coco. I've heard that the GIME was too expensive. > > 1990, wasn't the 386 out at that point? > > In the old days when the Coco was hot, there was real competition in the > personal computer market. It wasn't just Apple and vendors selling > Windows compatible PC's. Even the Alpha is gone now. > > > -- I think most of us believe that Tandy felt the Coco undercut the sales of the more expensive PC clones. That would certainly have been the case if a Coco4 were released. Also Tandy never took the Coco seriously in spite of the fact that it was very strong competition for anything else on the market in its price range. From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 9 19:36:58 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:36:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? In-Reply-To: <49177AF7.7070604@worldnet.att.net> References: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <49177AF7.7070604@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20081110003725.95F6720A33@qs281.pair.com> At 06:06 PM 11/9/2008, you wrote: >Michael Robinson wrote: >>I've heard that an engineering problem in the GIME chip lead to the >>demise of the Coco. I've heard that the GIME was too expensive. >>1990, wasn't the 386 out at that point? >>In the old days when the Coco was hot, there was real competition in the >>personal computer market. It wasn't just Apple and vendors selling >>Windows compatible PC's. Even the Alpha is gone now. >> >>-- > >I think most of us believe that Tandy felt the Coco undercut the >sales of the more expensive PC clones. That would certainly have >been the case if a Coco4 were released. > >Also Tandy never took the Coco seriously in spite of the fact that >it was very strong competition for anything else on the market in >its price range. There was also a lack of programmer involvement. There were plenty of games on the market but it seems that they rushed most of them to just get them done and on the shelf. Look on YouTube for videos of Sinclair games and other computers of that time and you'll see that we could have had much better stuff released. If we had my Rainbow IDE around back then, some serious stuff could have been done in a fraction of the time, and deadlines could have been met with quality. :) But then, the idea of using a more powerful system to develop for a smaller system might not have crossed many programmer's minds. EDTASM may have been the primary choice tool back then. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 9 19:51:12 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:51:12 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Mocha - CoCo emulator compatible with PC mouse Message-ID: <20081110005136.ABA5C20A36@qs281.pair.com> I just learned that the disk game "One on One" found in Mocha's Disk menu responds to the PC mouse and lets you control your basketball player. I wasn't aware that Mocha could do this. This is very nice. I haven't tried any other games yet. http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Mocha -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Nov 9 20:30:07 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:30:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? In-Reply-To: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1226274567.6251.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <4917484F.9105.F285FF@jdaggett.gate.net> On 9 Nov 2008 at 15:49, Michael Robinson wrote: > I've heard that an engineering problem in the GIME chip lead to the > demise of the Coco. I've heard that the GIME was too expensive. > |===================== That may very well be true if the product was cancelled in 1988. The GIME chip was frought with problems with the original 1986 version part. the 1987 part works as designed. or at least what we think it was designed for. It is hard to tell whichcame first. Tandy's cancellation of the Coco or Motorola's cancellation of the MC6809 chip. If my memory serves me correct the notice of cancellation and call for lifetime buys came in late 1988 or 1989. Motorola ceased official production in late 1989 ot early 1990. They still fullfilled warranty runs up to late 1999. I have week 42/46 of 1999 chips on hand. That would make it about November of 1999 when the last MC6809's were made. > 1990, wasn't the 386 out at that point? > Yes. > In the old days when the Coco was hot, there was real competition in > the personal computer market. It wasn't just Apple and vendors > selling Windows compatible PC's. Even the Alpha is gone now. > There was competition in the home computer market but 8 bit processors had basically fallen into embedded use by 1990. The HC11 by far was outpacing the MC6809 in the embedded market. The flavors of HC11 were more integrated with peripherals that made it a better single chip solution for embedded work. I still relish what would have been a fantastic processor would be to have the peripherals of the HC11 processors with the CPU core of the 6809 with some expanded instructions. Would have made a better embedded processor. The HC12 is the closest to that now. If it had the U register it would be that microcomputer. james From bkheath at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 22:04:39 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:04:39 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> <5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: > On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: >> >> I wasn't clear. >> >> ... >> >> What I don't see how to do, and what will >> become critical as I implement functions that >> modify the FAT and/or Directory sectors, is a way to tell if the user >> has changed the >> diskette since the last time the drive was accessed. >> >> If I can't get this without Basic taking over on an error I'll have to >> implement secondary >> buffers to hold the unmodified FATS and do a read-back and compare >> before any updates. >> That's messy, slow, eats memory and will be another PITA on top of >> having to emulate functions that should be available as system calls. >> > > RSDOS does not provide any facility to detect if the user has changed > diskettes in a drive. It very much relies on the user to do the > correct thing by not changing disks while any files are open. There is > an UNLOAD command in Disk Basic which is supposed to be used before > switching disks to ensure that the current disk is updated if > necessary. > > Darren Damn, I was afraid of that. Maybe I can get it directly from the controller chip, needs looking into. Thanks for the reply Brett K. Heath From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 23:08:08 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 20:08:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <786229.67078.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> While I won't say that this would be the ideal solution (Im unaware of the disk change signal being sent back to the disk controllers we are used to on the CoCo, let alone made available to an OS or user program) but as a typical RSDOS diskette, if memory serves me right, doesn't use all of track 17, what about one sector being used to hold a "disk ID"... only problem is the generation of one that is completely unique to a colletion of disks. I would imagine the overhead for reading one single sector, pulling an ID code from it and comparing it to one in memory for the "open" disk in that particular drive would be less than keeping multiples of the whole FAT table. This could lead to a "cache"ing of the who directory in the future. I reserve the right to be in complete error on the above statements in regard to efficiency, overhead, and overall function. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > From: Brett Heath > Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:47 PM > On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: > > On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > >> > >> ... > >> ... > Teaser2) using DSKCON. What I don't see how to do, and > what will > become critical as I implement functions that > modify the FAT and/or Directory sectors, is a way to tell > if the user > has changed the > diskette since the last time the drive was accessed. > > If I can't get this without Basic taking over on an > error I'll have to > implement secondary > buffers to hold the unmodified FATS and do a read-back and > compare > before any updates. > That's messy, slow, eats memory and will be another > PITA on top of > having to emulate functions that should be available as > system calls. > ... From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 23:22:21 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 20:22:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? In-Reply-To: <49177AF7.7070604@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <88480.38873.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tandy didn't even really take their first TRS-80 (later called the Model I when they released the Model II) seriously, they initially wanted to just be a reseller. The numbers in sales is what had kept it alive then. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Robert Gault wrote: > From: Robert Gault > Subject: Re: [Coco] Why was the Coco abandoned? > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:06 PM > Michael Robinson wrote: > > I've heard that an engineering problem in the GIME > chip lead to the > > demise of the Coco. I've heard that the GIME was > too expensive. > > > > 1990, wasn't the 386 out at that point? > > > > In the old days when the Coco was hot, there was real > competition in the > > personal computer market. It wasn't just Apple > and vendors selling > > Windows compatible PC's. Even the Alpha is gone > now. > > > > > > -- > > I think most of us believe that Tandy felt the Coco > undercut the sales of the more expensive PC clones. That > would certainly have been the case if a Coco4 were released. > > Also Tandy never took the Coco seriously in spite of the > fact that it was very strong competition for anything else > on the market in its price range. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dml_68 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 23:47:27 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 20:47:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] 1986-87 CoCo-ADS Newsletters Archive Message-ID: <274679.62787.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Huge thanks and gratitude need to be given to Grandpa John for all his hard work scanning and sending me these. I can now present a new archive for the coco community. This is an archive of 18 issues of the CoCo-Ads newsletter, magazine in PDF format from 1986 and 1987. You can find the download link here http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3511#3511 If anyone else has newsletters, magazine scans or software you want me to add to the archive please send me an e-mail so we can arrange to get your contributions posted for folks to enjoy. More good stuff on the way soon and again all credit for this archive goes to Grandpa John a great member of the coco community. Enjoy my friends! Derek ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From mechacoco at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 00:10:54 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:10:54 -0700 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> <5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811092110v7d1ef78dtf9f995177e18329@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: >> >> RSDOS does not provide any facility to detect if the user has changed >> diskettes in a drive. It very much relies on the user to do the >> correct thing by not changing disks while any files are open. There is >> an UNLOAD command in Disk Basic which is supposed to be used before >> switching disks to ensure that the current disk is updated if >> necessary. >> >> Darren > > Damn, I was afraid of that. > > Maybe I can get it directly from the controller chip, needs looking into. > Don't bother. The Disk Change signal is not connected to anything on CoCo controllers. Darren. From os9dude at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 04:58:02 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:58:02 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler Message-ID: <5631e580811100158v5dd8f397ie88bedc98a619d30@mail.gmail.com> Found the following: http://projecteuler.net/ For math aficionados. Am working on taking a stab at some of the problems using plain old CoCo Extended Basic and/or Basic09. It's be interesting upon publishing the algorithms to the list :-) -=[ Rogelio ]=- From bkheath at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 04:49:00 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:49:00 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811092110v7d1ef78dtf9f995177e18329@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com> <5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com> <5d802cd0811092110v7d1ef78dtf9f995177e18329@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: > On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > >>> >>> RSDOS does not provide any facility to detect if the user has changed >>> diskettes in a drive. It very much relies on the user to do the >>> correct thing by not changing disks while any files are open. There is >>> an UNLOAD command in Disk Basic which is supposed to be used before >>> switching disks to ensure that the current disk is updated if >>> necessary. >>> >>> Darren >> >> Damn, I was afraid of that. >> >> Maybe I can get it directly from the controller chip, needs looking into. >> > > Don't bother. The Disk Change signal is not connected to anything on > CoCo controllers. Yeah, it figures. Oh well, have to try something else, thanks for the help. Brett K. Heath From bkheath at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 05:08:54 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:08:54 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <786229.67078.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <786229.67078.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: > >> From: Brett Heath >> Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of >> questions. >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:47 PM >> On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: >> > On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: >> >> >> >> ... >> >> > ... >> Teaser2) using DSKCON. What I don't see how to do, and >> what will >> become critical as I implement functions that >> modify the FAT and/or Directory sectors, is a way to tell >> if the user >> has changed the >> diskette since the last time the drive was accessed. >> >> If I can't get this without Basic taking over on an >> error I'll have to >> implement secondary >> buffers to hold the unmodified FATS and do a read-back and >> compare >> before any updates. >> That's messy, slow, eats memory and will be another >> PITA on top of >> having to emulate functions that should be available as >> system calls. >> On 11/9/08, Bill Barnes wrote: > While I won't say that this would be the ideal solution (Im unaware of the > disk change signal being sent back to the disk controllers we are used to on > the CoCo, let alone made available to an OS or user program) but as a > typical RSDOS diskette, if memory serves me right, doesn't use all of track > 17, what about one sector being used to hold a "disk ID"... only problem is > the generation of one that is completely unique to a colletion of disks. I > would imagine the overhead for reading one single sector, pulling an ID code > from it and comparing it to one in memory for the "open" disk in that > particular drive would be less than keeping multiples of the whole FAT > table. This could lead to a "cache"ing of the who directory in the future. > > I reserve the right to be in complete error on the above statements in > regard to efficiency, overhead, and overall function. > > -Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. Yeah pretty sure there's room for that on the disk but your suggestion gave me another idea that might be better. Maybe do a CRC of the original FAT instead of buffering the whole thing. I'd still have to reread the FAT to generate a comparison CRC but it looks like that's unavoidable anyway. In any case it would save some memory and the overhead of keeping track of multiple buffers, the CRC could be tucked into the control bytes of the same buffer that holds the ram FAT copy. Of course I have NDI what the algorithm for generating a CRC is but maybe it's time to learn, it's the kind of addition to the language that's likely to come in handy in other contexts. Anybody know where I can find a crash course in CRC generation? Brett K. Heath From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 05:48:34 2008 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:48:34 +1000 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. References: <5d802cd0811090926x283737far2c6f475cec0e9bb8@mail.gmail.com><5d802cd0811091225j4c206db7y70a88160a22eebf6@mail.gmail.com><5d802cd0811092110v7d1ef78dtf9f995177e18329@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000201c94322$6bdaa4d0$351f5e77@aceraspire> My suggestion on this would be to write a psuedo-random number to an unused sector (such as sector 1 of track 17) and read that into memory when the programme runs and check for a change of that number whenever you access the disk to write to it. I believe that OS-9 does this to some extent; at least there is an ID number in LSN0 of each disk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Heath" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. > On 11/9/08, Darren A wrote: >> On 11/9/08, Brett Heath wrote: >> >>>> >>>> RSDOS does not provide any facility to detect if the user has changed >>>> diskettes in a drive. It very much relies on the user to do the >>>> correct thing by not changing disks while any files are open. There is >>>> an UNLOAD command in Disk Basic which is supposed to be used before >>>> switching disks to ensure that the current disk is updated if >>>> necessary. >>>> >>>> Darren >>> >>> Damn, I was afraid of that. >>> >>> Maybe I can get it directly from the controller chip, needs looking >>> into. >>> >> >> Don't bother. The Disk Change signal is not connected to anything on >> CoCo controllers. > > Yeah, it figures. > > Oh well, have to try something else, thanks for the help. > > Brett K. Heath > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Nov 10 05:55:29 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:55:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. References: <786229.67078.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5917D82642A74967AC4B70A23B418A18@speedy> > On 11/9/08, Bill Barnes wrote: >> While I won't say that this would be the ideal solution (Im unaware of >> the >> disk change signal being sent back to the disk controllers we are used to >> on >> the CoCo, let alone made available to an OS or user program) but as a >> typical RSDOS diskette, if memory serves me right, doesn't use all of >> track >> 17, what about one sector being used to hold a "disk ID"... only problem >> is >> the generation of one that is completely unique to a colletion of disks. >> I >> would imagine the overhead for reading one single sector, pulling an ID >> code >> from it and comparing it to one in memory for the "open" disk in that >> particular drive would be less than keeping multiples of the whole FAT >> table. This could lead to a "cache"ing of the who directory in the >> future. >> >> I reserve the right to be in complete error on the above statements in >> regard to efficiency, overhead, and overall function. >> >> -Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. There are a few OS "improvements" that make use of the second sector of track 17. So as often happens in uncharted territory, here there be dragons. Bruce W. From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au Mon Nov 10 06:33:43 2008 From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 03:33:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve Message-ID: <2582.64356.qm@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Fellow coconuts. I'm pretty certain that some types of Pc Floppy cards also can cause the Dskini and Retreive not too function correctly. Something to do with Track 0 not being able to be read. Torsten and I had a discussion about this and Torsten found that for a split second the read and write signals go to sleep on Track0. This sleep fault is enough too stop any program designed for reading Coco disks to work. ?Tosten would be able to tell you more about this Roger. I had the same trouble. The only option is to try another Pc with the Bios set for 720k for 360k drives and 1440 for 720k, I used these settings. Or you could always try and get a used Catweasel card then you don't get these problems. laters Briza Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 From benbleau at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 09:02:54 2008 From: benbleau at gmail.com (Benoit Bleau) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:02:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <5917D82642A74967AC4B70A23B418A18@speedy> References: <786229.67078.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5917D82642A74967AC4B70A23B418A18@speedy> Message-ID: <49183F0E.4090803@gmail.com> Bruce W. Calkins wrote: > > There are a few OS "improvements" that make use of the second sector > of track 17. So as often happens in uncharted territory, here there > be dragons. Or, you could create a zero-length file that has a serial number as the filename, and an unused type for the file ( S for serial or something similar). That way, it would not use any tricks that could be incompatible with an enhanced dos rom. You could then check for a file of type S and compare the name with what f83 has in memory. -Benoit From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 09:04:10 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:04:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27081.20166.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ideas to find a CRC generator: Look at the XModem/CRC, YModem, or ZModem file transfer protocols of yester-year They had a 16-bit CRC if I remember correctly. However a good hashing algorithm may provide another type of CRC or similar unique ID too. There also may be other resources besides these. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. > Of course I have NDI what the algorithm for generating a CRC is but > maybe it's time to learn, it's the kind of addition to the language > that's likely to come in handy in other contexts. > > Anybody know where I can find a crash course in CRC generation? > > Brett K. Heath > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 09:11:49 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:11:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <682655.96342.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Oh, just thought of this. One caveat to the CRC, or any unique ID generated on the fly, is if say you started with a blank disk, or other disk for that matter, and exchanged it for one of the exact same FAT/GAT layout. The problem would be that the change may not be noticed by any simple scheme. (unique disk ID assigned and written to the disk being perhaps the only exception.) -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 09:22:13 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:22:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <49183F0E.4090803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <434159.90389.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Simple and elegant. It would also help to avoid the problem, at least first time around, of switching out the disk for an exact copy. Ah the things we programmers need to do to "idiot proof" a user's experience. Most of us know not to switch out a disk with open files... but some may have a "blonde moment" about it. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Benoit Bleau wrote: > From: Benoit Bleau > Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:02 AM > Bruce W. Calkins wrote: > > > Or, you could create a zero-length file that has a serial > number as the filename, and an unused type for the file ( S > for serial or something similar). That way, it would not use > any tricks that could be incompatible with an enhanced dos > rom. You could then check for a file of type S and compare > the name with what f83 has in memory. > > -Benoit > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 09:37:05 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] CRC Wiki info In-Reply-To: <434159.90389.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <168851.1435.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check this link provides some info on CRCs, but as in any Wiki, there exists a chance for extreme errors.... HOPEFULLY it could come in handy though. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. From farna at att.net Mon Nov 10 11:23:26 2008 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:23:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. Message-ID: <49185FFE.3010502@att.net> Why not go one easier? Have the DOS write a unique disk ID the first time it does a disk read, then compare that ID every other time? Would be easier/faster than a CRC each time. Maybe date/time stamp the disk in that normally unused area? Of course that's assuming a real-time clock, or a time function in the DOS. ------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:08:54 -0800 From: "Brett Heath" On 11/9/08, Bill Barnes wrote: > > While I won't say that this would be the ideal solution (Im unaware of the > > disk change signal being sent back to the disk controllers we are used to on > > the CoCo, let alone made available to an OS or user program) but as a > > typical RSDOS diskette, if memory serves me right, doesn't use all of track > > 17, what about one sector being used to hold a "disk ID"... only problem is > > the generation of one that is completely unique to a colletion of disks. I > > would imagine the overhead for reading one single sector, pulling an ID code > > from it and comparing it to one in memory for the "open" disk in that > > particular drive would be less than keeping multiples of the whole FAT > > table. This could lead to a "cache"ing of the who directory in the future. > > > > I reserve the right to be in complete error on the above statements in > > regard to efficiency, overhead, and overall function. > > > > -Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. > Yeah pretty sure there's room for that on the disk but your suggestion gave me another idea that might be better. Maybe do a CRC of the original FAT instead of buffering the whole thing. I'd still have to reread the FAT to generate a comparison CRC but it looks like that's unavoidable anyway. In any case it would save some memory and the overhead of keeping track of multiple buffers, the CRC could be tucked into the control bytes of the same buffer that holds the ram FAT copy. Of course I have NDI what the algorithm for generating a CRC is but maybe it's time to learn, it's the kind of addition to the language that's likely to come in handy in other contexts. Anybody know where I can find a crash course in CRC generation? Brett K. Heath -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) From gene.heskett at verizon.net Mon Nov 10 12:05:47 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:05:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <682655.96342.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <682655.96342.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200811101205.48038.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Monday 10 November 2008, Bill Barnes wrote: >Oh, just thought of this. One caveat to the CRC, or any unique ID generated > on the fly, is if say you started with a blank disk, or other disk for that > matter, and exchanged it for one of the exact same FAT/GAT layout. The > problem would be that the change may not be noticed by any simple scheme. > (unique disk ID assigned and written to the disk being perhaps the only > exception.) > This is where os9 seemed to have right. But in those cases, exchanging the disk for a backup of the disk, which copied the 4 byte unique ID too, would fool it. But it had all the other bases covered. Even this area could be worked around at the expense of another temp copy of lsn0 in memory when making the backup, when reading in the lsn0 of the src disk, copy the target disks unique ID over the src disks before writing track 0 back out to the target, thereby preserving that unique identification. That shouldn't be too much of a mod to the backup utility. If I get bored, and looking for a project, I'll see if I can fix that. No quick promises. If someone beats me to it, well. :) Looks like it was pretty easy, 8 lines of code, but I'll send it to Robert for checking before I turn it loose. >-Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. > > > > > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Talking much about oneself can also be a means to conceal oneself. -- Friedrich Nietzsche From gene.heskett at verizon.net Mon Nov 10 12:20:48 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:20:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <49185FFE.3010502@att.net> References: <49185FFE.3010502@att.net> Message-ID: <200811101220.48546.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Monday 10 November 2008, Frank Swygert wrote: >Why not go one easier? Have the DOS write a unique disk ID the first time it > does a disk read, then compare that ID every other time? Would be > easier/faster than a CRC each time. Maybe date/time stamp the disk in that > normally unused area? Of course that's assuming a real-time clock, or a > time function in the DOS. I just sent a modified copy of the nitros9 backup to Robert for checking, it preserves the (I was wrong, its only 16 bits) unique disk ID of the destination disk when it is used for a backup target. If this works, then the problem should at least be solved for nitros9 in that we would have a unique disk ID preserved even if that disk is used to make a backup copy of another. IIRC rbf.mn does check that, often enough is the question... >------------- >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:08:54 -0800 >From: "Brett Heath" > >On 11/9/08, Bill Barnes wrote: >> > While I won't say that this would be the ideal solution (Im unaware of >> > the disk change signal being sent back to the disk controllers we are >> > used to on the CoCo, let alone made available to an OS or user program) >> > but as a typical RSDOS diskette, if memory serves me right, doesn't use >> > all of track 17, what about one sector being used to hold a "disk ID"... >> > only problem is the generation of one that is completely unique to a >> > colletion of disks. I would imagine the overhead for reading one single >> > sector, pulling an ID code from it and comparing it to one in memory for >> > the "open" disk in that particular drive would be less than keeping >> > multiples of the whole FAT table. This could lead to a "cache"ing of the >> > who directory in the future. >> > >> > I reserve the right to be in complete error on the above statements in >> > regard to efficiency, overhead, and overall function. >> > >> > -Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. > >Yeah pretty sure there's room for that on the disk but your >suggestion gave me another idea >that might be better. Maybe do a CRC of the original FAT instead of >buffering the whole thing. >I'd still have to reread the FAT to generate a comparison CRC but it >looks like that's >unavoidable anyway. In any case it would save some memory and the >overhead of keeping >track of multiple buffers, the CRC could be tucked into the control >bytes of the same buffer >that holds the ram FAT copy. > >Of course I have NDI what the algorithm for generating a CRC is but >maybe it's time to learn, >it's the kind of addition to the language that's likely to come in >handy in other contexts. > >Anybody know where I can find a crash course in CRC generation? > >Brett K. Heath -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I dote on his very absence. -- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice" From Torsten at Dittel.info Mon Nov 10 19:34:55 2008 From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:34:55 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Mocha - CoCo emulator compatible with PC mouse In-Reply-To: <20081110005136.ABA5C20A36@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081110005136.ABA5C20A36@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: Roger Taylor schrieb: > I just learned that the disk game "One on One" found in Mocha's Disk > menu responds to the PC mouse and lets you control your basketball player. > I wasn't aware that Mocha could do this. This is very nice. I haven't > tried any other games yet. Mocha ( http://JAVA.TRS-80.CC ) will even emulate the MaxPak for CoCoMax II. And to quote from the release notes ("Beta 6 Rev 10: 01-07-2004 (The Torsten Dittel Release)"): * Added "Mouse Box" Joystick emulation based on code and ideas from Torsten Dittel. If the box is checked on the "Config" tab, the user can then define the mouse- sensitive area of the screen by right-clicking on the game (which will pause) and dragging to create a virtual bounding box for the mouse. Releasing the mouse button unpauses the game. For some games like Breakout, if you match the bounding box to the game's mouse-sensitive area, the sprite will follow the mouse cursor exactly. Pretty neat. Without defining the mouse box manually, it remains the same 128x128 square in the center of the screen as the default joystick emulation but with more precise coordinates when the cursor leaves the box. Right now, unchecking the option resets the bounds to the default 128x128 square. It would be nice to draw the bounding rectangle when the user right-clicks and drags but I'm reluctant to slow down the paint code with additional checks. Time will tell. Thanks, Torsten. From bkheath at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 21:56:51 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:56:51 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: <434159.90389.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <49183F0E.4090803@gmail.com> <434159.90389.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >> From: Benoit Bleau >> Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of >> questions. >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:02 AM >> Bruce W. Calkins wrote: >> > >> Or, you could create a zero-length file that has a serial >> number as the filename, and an unused type for the file ( S >> for serial or something similar). That way, it would not use >> any tricks that could be incompatible with an enhanced dos >> rom. You could then check for a file of type S and compare >> the name with what f83 has in memory. >> >> -Benoit On 11/10/08, Bill Barnes wrote: > Simple and elegant. It would also help to avoid the problem, at least first > time around, of switching out the disk for an exact copy. > > Ah the things we programmers need to do to "idiot proof" a user's > experience. Most of us know not to switch out a disk with open files... but > some may have a "blonde moment" about it. > > -Later! -WB- -- BABIC Computer Consulting. It does look like the best of the "tagging" schemes (with the exception of OS9's, which is well enough established that the compatibility issues don't really apply) but I'm hesitant to use such an approach (mainly because that type of thing should be handled at a different level, as part of a an archiving/backup/inventory application for example). Also, I'm not overly concerned with detecting the difference between blank (or even cloned) disks. First of all, there are no pretensions that this is going to function as a stand-alone DOS, it just needs to safely simulate the system functions necessary to support f83's file I/O calls which are actually pretty minimal. Secondly, as long as it get's written correctly, it doesn't really matter where it ends up. I'm not going to even try to avoid all cases where a user can shoot themselves in the foot, but it would be nice to help them avoid doing so while holding a howitzer or a shotgun;-) A mitigating consideration that most people are unlikely to be aware of (unless they've spent the past few weeks wallowing in the f83 source) is that f83 functions which lead to modification of the FAT/Directory tend to be atomic. That is, they only occur in response to an explicit user request and control is not returned until all the updates have been written out to disk. There's nothing to prevent someone from adding "non-atomic" I/O primitives in the future of courxe, but at the point where they start modifying the kernel source they're on their own anyway, and if they just try to tack an "improved" whatever on top of a system they don't understand they deserve what they get. I think I'm gonna go with a CRC of the FAT concatenated with the active directory entries. It really would be handy to have a CRC function available. There's an old copy of Forth Dimensions with an article on XMODEM that includes source (which will run as-is) with an easily extractible CRC routine that can run stand-alone. It also includes enough discussion of the algorithm used that converting it to 6809 assembler should be fairly simple (thanks for the suggestion Bob!). Thanks to you, and everyone else, for the suggestions. Even the ones I'm not going to use really helped me clarify my thinking. Brett K. Heath From bkheath at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 22:18:13 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:18:13 -0800 Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: References: <49183F0E.4090803@gmail.com> <434159.90389.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > On 11/10/08, Bill Barnes wrote: .... > I wrote: .... > ... article on XMODEM that includes source (which will run as-is) with an > easily extractible CRC routine that can run stand-alone. It also > includes enough discussion > of the algorithm used that converting it to 6809 assembler should be > fairly simple (thanks for the suggestion Bob!). Whoops! The suggestion to look for XMODEM resources came from you, not from Bob. Sorry about that. I came across Bob's name (and an article on CRC theory by Terry Ritter, of all people) while looking info on generating CRC's and got a little confused. Brett K. Heath From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 00:13:14 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:13:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <49256.67311.qm@web31101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Probably was Bob because I didnt point out a specific protocol source. Bob I think may have mentioned it in response to me bringing it up. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Brett Heath wrote: > From: Brett Heath > Subject: Re: [Coco] f83 for the CoCo, Update and a laundry-list of questions. > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 9:18 PM > > On 11/10/08, Bill Barnes > wrote: > .... > > > I wrote: > .... > > > ... article on XMODEM that includes source (which > will run as-is) with an > > easily extractible CRC routine that can run > stand-alone. It also > > includes enough discussion > > of the algorithm used that converting it to 6809 > assembler should be > > fairly simple (thanks for the suggestion Bob!). > > Whoops! The suggestion to look for XMODEM resources came > from you, > not from Bob. Sorry about that. I came across Bob's > name (and an article > on CRC theory by Terry Ritter, of all people) while looking > info on generating > CRC's and got a little confused. > > Brett K. Heath > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 11 21:23:35 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:23:35 -0600 Subject: [Coco] dskini and retrieve In-Reply-To: <2582.64356.qm@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2582.64356.qm@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081112022340.AB0A120A33@qs281.pair.com> I finally got dskini.exe to work, guys. Formatting the floppies in my CoCo's 3.5" drive seems to help. 3.5" DD disks are being used so far, PC BIOS is set to 3.5" 720K. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 11 21:38:52 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:38:52 -0600 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted Message-ID: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> Anybody have a cheapo EPROM eraser they want to part with? I realize I can find one on ebay or eraser sites. Thanks -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From badfrog at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 21:42:33 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:42:33 -0600 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Roger Taylor wrote: > Anybody have a cheapo EPROM eraser they want to part with? I realize I can > find one on ebay or eraser sites. > Thanks > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 11 22:01:42 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:01:42 -0600 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081112030146.0D23020A33@qs281.pair.com> At 08:42 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote: >Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) From what I read, 3 weeks of intense sun might do it? Not very ideal. :) -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Tue Nov 11 22:11:43 2008 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:11:43 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted Message-ID: <20081111.221143.3660.3.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> How about finding a Barber that uses an ultra violet light for his combs and brushes? John C On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:01:42 -0600 Roger Taylor writes: > At 08:42 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote: > >Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) > > > From what I read, 3 weeks of intense sun might do it? Not very > ideal. :) > > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > ____________________________________________________________ Save hundreds on Computer Training. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mAUC9ioGZIYLWKzOjnAlyiyi3psUUc7VUYxy6M5bLjTC3nT/ From linville at tuxdriver.com Tue Nov 11 22:09:00 2008 From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:09:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:42:33PM -0600, Sean wrote: > Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) YMMV, but that takes forever... -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. From coconut at pritchard.ca Tue Nov 11 22:18:58 2008 From: coconut at pritchard.ca (Ryan Pritchard) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:18:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: Seems to me a sunny day and a magnifying glass may do the trick a little faster. Seems worth the effort of an experiment on that one. Of course I don't have an EPROM burner so I can't really test the theory. Regards, Ryan Pritchard Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies On 11-Nov-08, at 9:09 PM, John W. Linville wrote: > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:42:33PM -0600, Sean wrote: >> Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) > > YMMV, but that takes forever... > > -- > John W. Linville Linux should be at the core > linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at verizon.net Tue Nov 11 22:29:08 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <200811112229.08587.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Tuesday 11 November 2008, Ryan Pritchard wrote: >Seems to me a sunny day and a magnifying glass may do the trick a >little faster. Seems worth the effort of an experiment on that one. > Not without a pretty good IR filter, otherwise you'll cook the chip. >Of course I don't have an EPROM burner so I can't really test the >theory. > >Regards, > >Ryan Pritchard >Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies > >On 11-Nov-08, at 9:09 PM, John W. Linville wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:42:33PM -0600, Sean wrote: >>> Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) >> >> YMMV, but that takes forever... >> >> -- >> John W. Linville Linux should be at the core >> linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Screw up your courage! You've screwed up everything else. From badfrog at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 22:36:51 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:36:51 -0600 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com> <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811111936u119b3e6k3bbbac9f670386e3@mail.gmail.com> Ah, that's just something I remember from the CoCo club days in my youth... The guy with the burner said the sun could erase them. Never actually dealt with them! On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:09 PM, John W. Linville wrote: > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:42:33PM -0600, Sean wrote: >> Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) > > YMMV, but that takes forever... > > -- > John W. Linville Linux should be at the core > linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From lamune at doki-doki.net Tue Nov 11 22:43:32 2008 From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:43:32 -0800 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D833@fenestra.lamunet.local> > Anybody have a cheapo EPROM eraser they want to part with? I realize > I can find one on ebay or eraser sites. > Thanks I've gotten some UV fluorescent tubes on ebay for literally a few bucks and stuck them into cheapo light fixtures I've had (retaining the cover) I could erase 20 at a time :) From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 11 22:46:50 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:46:50 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com>, <20081112030900.GB3465@tuxdriver.com>, Message-ID: <491A0B5A.24308.13066F0@jdaggett.gate.net> On 11 Nov 2008 at 21:18, Ryan Pritchard wrote: > Seems to me a sunny day and a magnifying glass may do the trick a > little faster. Seems worth the effort of an experiment on that one. > That would focus to much IR light onto the die and probably damage from excessive heat. A simple eraser can be made with a timer and a UV (Black light)lamp. A small bulb about 10 watts will do. There is a trade off of how much UV energy and time to erase a chip without damage. james From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 11 22:56:13 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:56:13 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <20081112030146.0D23020A33@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com>, <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com>, <20081112030146.0D23020A33@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <491A0D8D.10419.138FDFA@jdaggett.gate.net> Roger A simple eraser could probably be made from a small, 10 watt or so max, black light bulb and a timer. Some simple housing to enclose the bulb and light fixture could be cobbled together to house the whole thing. Wont be pretty. You may have to experiment on distance between the bulb and the chip along with erase time depending on the bulb wattage. james On 11 Nov 2008 at 21:01, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 08:42 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote: > >Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) > > > From what I read, 3 weeks of intense sun might do it? Not very > ideal. :) > > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From lamune at doki-doki.net Tue Nov 11 23:25:38 2008 From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:25:38 -0800 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <491A0D8D.10419.138FDFA@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com>, <9efa17da0811111842wbe0bcbpf636ec374e3b2a19@mail.gmail.com>, <20081112030146.0D23020A33@qs281.pair.com> <491A0D8D.10419.138FDFA@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D834@fenestra.lamunet.local> Blacklight probably won't do the trick in any reasonable amount of time. You need a shortwave UV to be most effective. > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco- > bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of jdaggett at gate.net > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:56 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted > > Roger > > A simple eraser could probably be made from a small, 10 watt or so max, > black light bulb and a timer. Some simple housing to enclose the bulb > and > light fixture could be cobbled together to house the whole thing. Wont > be > pretty. > > You may have to experiment on distance between the bulb and the chip > along with erase time depending on the bulb wattage. > > > james > > On 11 Nov 2008 at 21:01, Roger Taylor wrote: > > > At 08:42 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote: > > >Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) > > > > > > From what I read, 3 weeks of intense sun might do it? Not very > > ideal. :) > > > > > > -- > > Roger Taylor > > > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Tue Nov 11 23:40:47 2008 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:40:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted Message-ID: Per Murphy, it works great if you intended to preserve the data on the eprom... -----Original Message----- From: "John W. Linville" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: 11/11/08 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:42:33PM -0600, Sean wrote: > Can't you just stick them out in the sun? :) YMMV, but that takes forever... -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From neilsmorr at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 01:22:39 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:22:39 -0800 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted References: <20081111.221143.3660.3.JohnChasteen.2@Juno.com> Message-ID: <9BA49D8BE9D0467985DD682362F05481@NewBaby> If you can safely look at the light it won't work. That's why the erasers all have interlocks. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John T Chasteen" > How about finding a Barber that uses an ultra violet light for his combs > and brushes? From neilsmorr at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 01:52:22 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:52:22 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Penguin problems... References: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <1226273409.6251.1.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: Anyone have Rainbow on Tape/Disk for that month/year? Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robinson" >> The program is Penguin, it is in the April 1990 issue of the Rainbow. >> On line 890 check is supposed to return 36 if the lines are typed in >> correctly. Well, there is a misprint and one of the lines isn't >> completely there. Anyone have a correction for this program? > I found a site by Nick Bradbury, but there doesn't appear to be any way > to contact him. Penguin is a cute little arcade game, apparently his > last. From stanblaz at netspace.net.au Wed Nov 12 03:51:12 2008 From: stanblaz at netspace.net.au (Stan Blazejewski) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:51:12 +1100 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D833@fenestra.lamunet.local> References: <20081112023856.672D020A33@qs281.pair.com> <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D833@fenestra.lamunet.local> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:43:32 -0800, you wrote: > >> Anybody have a cheapo EPROM eraser they want to part with? I realize >> I can find one on ebay or eraser sites. >> Thanks > >I've gotten some UV fluorescent tubes on ebay for literally a few bucks >and stuck them into cheapo light fixtures I've had (retaining the cover) > >I could erase 20 at a time :) I've used an old 'sun lamp' (I got it at an 'op shop', I think you call them thrift shops) which is basically an unprotected xenon arc lamp. I'll erase any EPROM within half a meter in about 10 minutes. -- Australia isn't "down under", it's "off to one side"! http://www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran) http://www.parkdaleyc.com (where most of them sail) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobra-cat/ (where we talk about them) From linville at tuxdriver.com Wed Nov 12 08:45:56 2008 From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:45:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] EPROM eraser wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081112134556.GA2411@tuxdriver.com> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:40:47PM -0500, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Per Murphy, it works great if you intended to preserve the data on the eprom... OK, that is true -- but if you actually want a full erase so that you can reliably reprogram, then there are better options... :-) John -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 09:19:34 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:19:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks Message-ID: <427023.79192.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Get a look at this project: http://peekbot.jamtronix.com/ Just wondering how hard it would be to get CoCo disk images supported. There is already support built on for TRSDOS disk images along with the Apple, CBM and Atari. ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 12 09:50:07 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:50:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <427023.79192.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <427023.79192.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <491AED1F.6010501@worldnet.att.net> Derek wrote: > Get a look at this project: http://peekbot.jamtronix.com/ > > Just wondering how hard it would be to get CoCo disk images supported. There is already support built on for TRSDOS disk images along with the Apple, CBM and Atari. > > > I must be missing something here. What is the point of this program if you can just run a Coco emulator, capture the screen, and post it as a gif or jpg image. From badfrog at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 10:38:20 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:38:20 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Penguin problems... In-Reply-To: References: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <1226273409.6251.1.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811120738u33abaa6bjcf8690ef4852b374@mail.gmail.com> I think I sent that one to Derek to archive. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:52 AM, Neil Morrison wrote: > Anyone have Rainbow on Tape/Disk for that month/year? > > Neil > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robinson" > > >>> The program is Penguin, it is in the April 1990 issue of the Rainbow. >>> On line 890 check is supposed to return 36 if the lines are typed in >>> correctly. Well, there is a misprint and one of the lines isn't >>> completely there. Anyone have a correction for this program? > >> I found a site by Nick Bradbury, but there doesn't appear to be any way >> to contact him. Penguin is a cute little arcade game, apparently his >> last. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 12 13:11:16 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:11:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable Message-ID: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo floppy cable. Is this hard to believe? I've looked in almost every CoCo manual I have and many technical PDF docs with no luck. After hundreds of posts on the subject over the years and lots of CoCo tech documents on the web, nothing is turning up after 1 hour of digging. Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is seen as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up normally and crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, but I have no clue which ones they are now. It seems like this should be written in stone and easy to find, and I've found this info in the past which is why I'm wondering where it is hiding on the web. Any help? Thanks -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 14:11:25 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:11:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <491AED1F.6010501@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <866780.60719.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just because you can not see a use for it does not mean there isn't one.... ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Robert Gault wrote: From: Robert Gault Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 6:50 AM Derek wrote: > Get a look at this project: http://peekbot.jamtronix.com/ > > Just wondering how hard it would be to get CoCo disk images supported. There is already support built on for TRSDOS disk images along with the Apple, CBM and Atari. > > > I must be missing something here. What is the point of this program if you can just run a Coco emulator, capture the screen, and post it as a gif or jpg image. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jlhickle at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 14:34:23 2008 From: jlhickle at yahoo.com (Jim Hickle) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:34:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <866780.60719.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54997.68768.qm@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 2:11 PM > Just because you can not see a use for it does not mean > there isn't one.... > Should I post a directory listing or write a file system browser in case someone doesn't want to download a whole 150k image...what to do...what to do... From sklammer at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 14:37:59 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:37:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811121137q7486fcdbvbdd541566d683744@mail.gmail.com> Here is a link to the 26-3029 controller schematic http://www.doki-doki.net/~lamune/computers/coco/hd-floppy/schematic.png It includes the connector pinouts and is from Mike Pepe's work/instructions on modifying the controller to use HD floppies. Hope that is of some help to you... sk 2008/11/12 Roger Taylor > I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo floppy cable. Is this > hard to believe? I've looked in almost every CoCo manual I have and many > technical PDF docs with no luck. After hundreds of posts on the subject > over the years and lots of CoCo tech documents on the web, nothing is > turning up after 1 hour of digging. > > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as Drive > 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is seen as Drive > 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently hacked in the past but > later I lined the ribbon wires back up normally and crimped it back to work > with normal CoCo floppy drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of the > ribbon wires, but I have no clue which ones they are now. > > It seems like this should be written in stone and easy to find, and I've > found this info in the past which is why I'm wondering where it is hiding on > the web. > > Any help? > Thanks > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From brucewcalkins at charter.net Wed Nov 12 14:55:40 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:55:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <6A85068BCCAF42D1A8348042D33AF76F@speedy> Here's the first 4 hits I gtet from Google. http://www.interfacebus.com/PC_Floppy_Drive_PinOut.html http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml If all other lines run through to the drive, the switch or jumper should be able to change it from #1 to #0, unless you have one so new that that option does not exist. Bruce W. > I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo floppy cable. Is > this hard to believe? I've looked in almost every CoCo manual I have and > many technical PDF docs with no luck. After hundreds of posts on the > subject over the years and lots of CoCo tech documents on the web, nothing > is turning up after 1 hour of digging. > > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as > Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is seen > as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently hacked in the > past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up normally and crimped it > back to work with normal CoCo floppy drives. I know I need to swap or > twist a few of the ribbon wires, but I have no clue which ones they are > now. > > It seems like this should be written in stone and easy to find, and I've > found this info in the past which is why I'm wondering where it is hiding > on the web. > > Any help? > Thanks > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 12 15:01:51 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:01:51 -0600 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <6A85068BCCAF42D1A8348042D33AF76F@speedy> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <6A85068BCCAF42D1A8348042D33AF76F@speedy> Message-ID: <20081112200214.4AF8E20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 01:55 PM 11/12/2008, you wrote: >Here's the first 4 hits I gtet from Google. > >http://www.interfacebus.com/PC_Floppy_Drive_PinOut.html > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml Those are PC pinouts. I was looking for the CoCo pinouts. The CoCo cable signals are slightly different, mainly the drive and side select lines, as far as I remember. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 15:10:51 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:10:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <54997.68768.qm@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <83431.72029.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All right I will stop posting to the list for awhile. Ridicule for posting something on topic and what I thought someone might find interesting is really uncalled for. ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Jim Hickle wrote: From: Jim Hickle Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:34 AM --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 2:11 PM > Just because you can not see a use for it does not mean > there isn't one.... > Should I post a directory listing or write a file system browser in case someone doesn't want to download a whole 150k image...what to do...what to do... -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From brucewcalkins at charter.net Wed Nov 12 15:18:10 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:18:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com><6A85068BCCAF42D1A8348042D33AF76F@speedy> <20081112200214.4AF8E20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: Drive 0,1 and 2 are the same. Drive 3 uses the "unused" side select line, which is what makes it possable to use both sides of up to 3 drives. 4 single sides at a time under Disk Extended Basic and full support of three double sided drives under OS-9/NitrOS9. All that is on the controller end, if you are using a normal PC cable. I have not disassembled my only Radio Shack original four drive cable to see how they moved the signal from the side select to the drive 3 line. Bruce W. > At 01:55 PM 11/12/2008, you wrote: >>Here's the first 4 hits I gtet from Google. >> >>http://www.interfacebus.com/PC_Floppy_Drive_PinOut.html >> >>http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml >> >>http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml >> >>http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml > > > Those are PC pinouts. I was looking for the CoCo pinouts. The CoCo cable > signals are slightly different, mainly the drive and side select lines, as > far as I remember. > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 15:24:37 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:24:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <725937.53153.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's what I got on a Floppy Drive cable, without all the garbage of the IBM twisting getting in the way (IBM uses a twist on 10-16): Not ALL signals show up for the CoCo. All ODD numbered lines are ground: 1-33 02 reduced write/Density (DD/HD? or SD/DD, unsure) (Shugart: Disk Change) 04 NC (Shugart: DS3) 06 NC (Shugart: In Use) 08 Index The Next 4 pins are the ones that IBM messses with 10 DS0 (Shugart: DS 0) (IBM: 12 DS1 (Shugart: DS B) 14 DS2 (Shugart: DS 2) 16 Motor on 18 [step] Direction Select 20 step 22 Write Data 24 Write Enable 26 Track 00 28 Write Protect 30 Read Data 32 Side [1] Select (CoCo: DS3) 34 Disk Change (Amiga: Drive Ready) NOTE: Shugart Interface Definitions are different on pins 2,4,6, and 34. NOTE: The Shugart Definitions predate the IBM hack. NOTE: The CoCo does not use pins 2,4,6, or 34. NOTE: The CoCo, when using single sided drives, uses Side select as DS3. Sounds like an IBM floppy cable will work though for this. Sources: http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml floppy disk controller schematics. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > From: Roger Taylor > Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable > To: "cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:11 PM > I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo > floppy cable. Is this hard to believe? I've looked in > almost every CoCo manual I have and many technical PDF docs > with no luck. After hundreds of posts on the subject over > the years and lots of CoCo tech documents on the web, > nothing is turning up after 1 hour of digging. > > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" > drive (hard-wired as Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the > CoCo. The drive currently is seen as Drive 1 and works > good. I'm using a cable I apparently hacked in the past > but later I lined the ribbon wires back up normally and > crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy drives. I > know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, but > I have no clue which ones they are now. > > It seems like this should be written in stone and easy to > find, and I've found this info in the past which is why > I'm wondering where it is hiding on the web. > > Any help? > Thanks > -- Roger Taylor From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 15:41:00 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:41:00 -0700 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811121241n4371cebeu69d59fac9688adf5@mail.gmail.com> On 11/12/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as > Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is > seen as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently > hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up > normally and crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy > drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, > but I have no clue which ones they are now. -- Roger, The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired as Drive 1) has wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive Select 0 and Drive Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. Darren From jlhickle at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 16:29:47 2008 From: jlhickle at yahoo.com (Jim Hickle) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:29:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <83431.72029.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <527736.51966.qm@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 3:10 PM > All right I will stop posting to the list for awhile. > Ridicule for posting something on topic and what I thought > someone might find interesting is really uncalled for. > Sorry, didn't intend to ridicule; just didn't get the purpose of that project. ... ... ... Once I was sure the World Wide Web would never catch on. ... ... (cough) ... ... and Compact Disks before that. From sklammer at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 17:23:48 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:23:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811121241n4371cebeu69d59fac9688adf5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811121241n4371cebeu69d59fac9688adf5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811121423o479f8bdajd716df0d3308870a@mail.gmail.com> >Roger, > >The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired as Drive 1) has >wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive Select 0 and Drive >Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. > >Darren That matches the 26-3029 (Coco Floppy Controller) schematic (from 1983) link I posted :) Although, it numbers the drive selects as 1 to 4 instead of 0 to 3. I've transcribed the pinouts below... Pin Function === ========= 2 NC 4 NC 6 NC 8 Index Pulse 10 Drive Select 1 12 Drive Select 2 14 Drive Select 3 16 Motor On 18 Dir C (?) 20 Step 22 Write Data 24 Write Gate 26 Track 00 28 Write Protect 30 Read Data 32 Drive Select 4 34 NC All other pins are tied to ground. sk 2008/11/12 Darren A > On 11/12/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as > > Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is > > seen as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently > > hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up > > normally and crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy > > drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, > > but I have no clue which ones they are now. > > -- > > Roger, > > The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired as Drive 1) has > wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive Select 0 and Drive > Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. > > Darren > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 17:41:06 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:41:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <3925f0b0811121423o479f8bdajd716df0d3308870a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <814946.86327.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you refer to my post, you will be able to remove that question mark, as it isnt a question anymore :) but it tells the drive logic what direction to move/step the heads in. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Shain Klammer wrote: > From: Shain Klammer > Subject: Re: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 4:23 PM > >Roger, > > > >The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired > as Drive 1) has > >wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive Select > 0 and Drive > >Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. > > > >Darren > > That matches the 26-3029 (Coco Floppy Controller) schematic > (from 1983) link > I posted :) > Although, it numbers the drive selects as 1 to 4 instead of > 0 to 3. I've > transcribed the pinouts below... > > Pin Function > === ========= > 2 NC > 4 NC > 6 NC > 8 Index Pulse > 10 Drive Select 1 > 12 Drive Select 2 > 14 Drive Select 3 > 16 Motor On > 18 Dir C (?) > 20 Step > 22 Write Data > 24 Write Gate > 26 Track 00 > 28 Write Protect > 30 Read Data > 32 Drive Select 4 > 34 NC > > All other pins are tied to ground. > > sk > > 2008/11/12 Darren A > > > On 11/12/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > > > > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC > 3.5" drive (hard-wired as > > > Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The > drive currently is > > > seen as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a > cable I apparently > > > hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon > wires back up > > > normally and crimped it back to work with normal > CoCo floppy > > > drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of > the ribbon wires, > > > but I have no clue which ones they are now. > > > > -- > > > > Roger, > > > > The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired > as Drive 1) has > > wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive > Select 0 and Drive > > Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From theother_bob at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 17:46:34 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:46:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable Message-ID: <914372.18400.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Roger, the CoCo and PC pinouts are not different, only the OS?implementation of the Side Select line is different (aside from?the few?lines that are not even used by the CoCo controller.) Since the CoCo didn't "support" DS drives, the SS line was used as DriveSelect3 (using 0-3 numbering). Four single sided drives for Basic/RSDOS/HDB-DOS can equal two Double Sided drives, or *any* four sides of three DS drives. For anyone interested, I have an article on my website with all the gory details of mapping physical drive sides to RSDOS drive numbers. It's in the Technical Info section under Using Double Sided Drives. This information was?a?cornerstone of my Basic?GUI's capabilities. cheers, Bob http://www.geocities.com/theother_bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Taylor >Here's the first 4 hits I gtet from Google. > >http://www.interfacebus.com/PC_Floppy_Drive_PinOut.html > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml > >http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml Those are PC pinouts.? I was looking for the CoCo pinouts.? The CoCo cable signals are slightly different, mainly the drive and side select lines, as far as I remember. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From theother_bob at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 17:55:33 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:55:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable Message-ID: <418554.38633.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On 11/12/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as > Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo.? The drive currently is > seen as Drive 1 and works good.? I'm using a cable I apparently > hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up > normally and crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy > drives.? I know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, > but I have no clue which ones they are now. -- Roger, The cable attached to my 3.5 drive (which is hardwired as Drive 1) has wires 10 - 12 twisted. This swaps only the Drive Select 0 and Drive Select 1 lines so that it will respond as Drive 0. Darren -- I have long used and loved having a toggle switch on my drives. I?wired a DPDT switch?to swap?lines 10 and 12. You can now use either drive as D0 without custom boot disks or whatever. I also use a Side Select toggle switch with Basic. Bob From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 18:03:50 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:03:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <527736.51966.qm@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <633111.55439.qm@web30203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No worries. I am having one of my cranky old man days. I suppose the project is more suited to the other vintage computer disk images because they have so many that it does become tedious to download hundreds or even thousands of disk images when you dont know what is on those disks. I would think the next step in his project would to have an online searchable index so if your looking for a specific file it will tell you what disk image that single file or set of files you searched for is on. I suppose one use for the coco disk images could be used offline to do a batch read of disk images and dump the contents out to a file or printer. I have tons of coco disk images with names like games01.dsk, games02.dsk that I would love to run through some type of batch processor that would give me a file of the contents to work with. ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Jim Hickle wrote: From: Jim Hickle Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 1:29 PM --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Derek wrote: > From: Derek > Subject: Re: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 3:10 PM > All right I will stop posting to the list for awhile. > Ridicule for posting something on topic and what I thought > someone might find interesting is really uncalled for. > Sorry, didn't intend to ridicule; just didn't get the purpose of that project. ... ... ... Once I was sure the World Wide Web would never catch on. ... ... (cough) ... ... and Compact Disks before that. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 18:06:47 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:06:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable, Error corrections In-Reply-To: <725937.53153.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <208821.69446.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My Bad, logic error on my part, IBM Cable would NOT do the trick without redefining how the Drive is selected within Disk Basic and OS-9. Logically IBM signals: d0 - drive 0 d1 - drive 1 d2 - drive 2 mo - motor on drive selected = signals required. d0 = d0 + d2 d1 = mo + d1 no shared signal between d0 & d1. I stand corrected in that twisting the connections 10-12 or 9-13, for the Drive 0 position only, would work best without rewriting the signals submitted to the drives and locking the controller down to just two drives. Oh yeah, where I said "(Amiga: Drive Ready)" in my post for pin 34, it should say Shugart there instead. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Bill Barnes wrote: > 10 DS0 (Shugart: DS 0) > 12 DS1 (Shugart: DS B) > 14 DS2 (Shugart: DS 2) > 16 Motor on > Sounds like an IBM floppy cable will work though for this. From farna at att.net Wed Nov 12 18:37:26 2008 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:37:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable Message-ID: <491B68B6.7070709@att.net> I can't believe I didn't put that in "Tandy's Little Wonder", but I didn't! But you could look at the floppy schematics and find it -- the FD-500 schematic is clear enough. Too bad that converting to PDF caused the schematics to be fuzzy enough that it's nearly impossible to see what most of the labels in most of them are. I don't have the original scans or schematics either. But you know, the CoCo floppy cable is nearly identical to an IBM cable. An IBM cable will work as long as the first two drives are jumpered the same (forget whether they both need to be drive 0 or 1). All the odd number pins are grounds, just evens have disk signals. -------------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:11:16 -0600 From: Roger Taylor I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo floppy cable. Is this hard to believe? I've looked in almost every CoCo manual I have and many technical PDF docs with no luck. After hundreds of posts on the subject over the years and lots of CoCo tech documents on the web, nothing is turning up after 1 hour of digging. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) From lamune at doki-doki.net Wed Nov 12 19:01:53 2008 From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:01:53 -0800 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <914372.18400.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <914372.18400.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D836@fenestra.lamunet.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco- > bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of theother_bob > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:47 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable > > Roger, > the CoCo and PC pinouts are not different, only the OS?implementation > of the Side Select line is different (aside from?the few?lines that are > not even used by the CoCo controller.) Since the CoCo didn't "support" > DS drives, the SS line was used as DriveSelect3 (using 0-3 numbering). > Four single sided drives for Basic/RSDOS/HDB-DOS can equal two Double > Sided drives, or *any* four sides of three DS drives. > > For anyone interested, I have an article on my website with all the > gory details of mapping physical drive sides to RSDOS drive numbers. > It's in the Technical Info section under Using Double Sided Drives. > This information was?a?cornerstone of my Basic?GUI's capabilities. > > cheers, > Bob > http://www.geocities.com/theother_bob > Bob, They are indeed different. The "standard" IBM cable is wired with two motor enable and two drive enables. As Darren correctly points out, if you take an IBM-style cable, untwist it, and then twist 10-12, you'll correctly get the motor/drive enable signals to an IBM-type 3.5 inch drive 0. That's how I got mine wired up. Also using switches is a great idea. I set up one drive case with a 3.5" drive, one 40T and one 80T 5.25" drives and 3 switches to select which one is drive 0 and 1. I can convert any media format to the other. That gets a smiley. :) -Mike From tlindner at macmess.org Wed Nov 12 20:06:53 2008 From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:06:53 -0800 Subject: [Coco] How hard would it be to adapt Peekbot to CoCo Disks In-Reply-To: <491AED1F.6010501@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <1iqay47.119m0hs118bylkM%tlindner@macmess.org> Robert Gault wrote: > Derek wrote: > > Get a look at this project: http://peekbot.jamtronix.com/ > > > > Just wondering how hard it would be to get CoCo disk images supported. > > There is already support built on for TRSDOS disk images along with the > > Apple, CBM and Atari. > I must be missing something here. What is the point of this program if you > can just run a Coco emulator, capture the screen, and post it as a gif or > jpg image. The idea is to make disk (old media) image archives viewable to web crawlers. Like Google. -- tim lindner tlindner at macmess.org Bright From gene.heskett at verizon.net Wed Nov 12 20:24:35 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:24:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Wednesday 12 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >I'm having trouble locating the pinouts for the CoCo floppy >cable. Is this hard to believe? I've looked in almost every CoCo >manual I have and many technical PDF docs with no luck. After >hundreds of posts on the subject over the years and lots of CoCo tech >documents on the web, nothing is turning up after 1 hour of digging. > >Anyway, I'm trying (yet again) to wire a PC 3.5" drive (hard-wired as >Drive 1) to be seen as Drive 0 on the CoCo. The drive currently is >seen as Drive 1 and works good. I'm using a cable I apparently >hacked in the past but later I lined the ribbon wires back up >normally and crimped it back to work with normal CoCo floppy >drives. I know I need to swap or twist a few of the ribbon wires, >but I have no clue which ones they are now. > >It seems like this should be written in stone and easy to find, and >I've found this info in the past which is why I'm wondering where it >is hiding on the web. > >Any help? >Thanks Roger, I'm amazed at you. You have failed miserably the 'are you a packrat' test. Most folks on this list could not deny they are packrats, I sure can't. I probably have 10 or more old pc floppy cables, the twisted ones, cuz anytime someone gives me an old box, it gets stripped for stuff like that. All you need to do is pop the pc's idc connector off, and pop on a coco edge pattern connector. Fine tipped exacto to open the idc with, and a vice to put the edge connector on with. And a SHARP pair of scissors to trim the end of the cable in case its ragged. SE Razor blades can be used two. I've also had fair luck looking the drives pcb's over with a stout glass, often there will be a clue in the artwork as to where to cut the ds1, and blob over the ds0 pads. But I have had to trace it with an ohm-meter to make sure I was cutting & blobbing the right traces. Worse comes to worse, I could send you a copy of the pc version. Yelp if you need it. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Without fools there would be no wisdom. From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 20:57:28 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:57:28 -0700 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811121757gcc677f6nc42cf9baa43fc333@mail.gmail.com> On 11/12/08, Gene Heskett wrote: > ... > > All you need to do is pop the pc's idc connector off, and pop on a coco edge > pattern connector. Fine tipped exacto to open the idc with, and a vice to > put the edge connector on with. And a SHARP pair of scissors to trim the > end > of the cable in case its ragged. SE Razor blades can be used two. Not quite. The twist in a standard PC cable also swaps the two separate Motor Enable signals used in the PC implementation. You only want to twist wires 10-12 when connecting to a CoCo. Darren From gene.heskett at verizon.net Wed Nov 12 21:06:19 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:06:19 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811121757gcc677f6nc42cf9baa43fc333@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <5d802cd0811121757gcc677f6nc42cf9baa43fc333@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200811122106.19966.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Wednesday 12 November 2008, Darren A wrote: >On 11/12/08, Gene Heskett wrote: >> ... >> >> All you need to do is pop the pc's idc connector off, and pop on a coco >> edge pattern connector. Fine tipped exacto to open the idc with, and a >> vice to put the edge connector on with. And a SHARP pair of scissors to >> trim the end >> of the cable in case its ragged. SE Razor blades can be used two. > >Not quite. The twist in a standard PC cable also swaps the two >separate Motor Enable signals used in the PC implementation. You only >want to twist wires 10-12 when connecting to a CoCo. > >Darren > I could have sworn I have done exactly that sometime in the past 20 years, but memories fade, so I'll not argue the point. >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river. -- Abraham Lincoln From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 12 21:38:50 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:38:50 -0600 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20081113023903.2D79B20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 07:24 PM 11/12/2008, you wrote: >Roger, I'm amazed at you. You have failed miserably the 'are you a packrat' >test. Most folks on this list could not deny they are packrats, I >sure can't. >I probably have 10 or more old pc floppy cables, the twisted ones, cuz >anytime someone gives me an old box, it gets stripped for stuff like that. >All you need to do is pop the pc's idc connector off, and pop on a coco edge >pattern connector. Fine tipped exacto to open the idc with, and a vice to >put the edge connector on with. And a SHARP pair of scissors to trim the end >of the cable in case its ragged. SE Razor blades can be used two. This office room is 25% packrat piles, thank ya very much. :) Neat piles, that is. Ok, a few are messy but this is my domain and it ain't my fault it somebody comes in here and trips over a (looking behind me for something on the floor...) a full-height CoCo floppy drive without the case. :) I did find my 'Box O' Ribbon Cables' in the closet and they all have that stupid plastic wall inside of the edge connector. The CoCo controllers don't have the notch for those. Anyway, my 3.5" is working just fine on the CoCo now. I've done stuff like this in the past with my repack, etc. but things get foggy over the years when you stop studying what you already accomplished and moved on. >I've also had fair luck looking the drives pcb's over with a stout glass, >often there will be a clue in the artwork as to where to cut the ds1, and >blob over the ds0 pads. But I have had to trace it with an ohm-meter to make >sure I was cutting & blobbing the right traces. > >Worse comes to worse, I could send you a copy of the pc version. Yelp if you >need it. > >-- >Cheers, Gene >"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." >-Ed Howdershelt (Author) >Without fools there would be no wisdom. > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gene.heskett at verizon.net Wed Nov 12 22:10:37 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:10:37 -0500 Subject: [Coco] PC-to-CoCo floppy drive cable In-Reply-To: <20081113023903.2D79B20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081112181125.B14F920A16@qs281.pair.com> <200811122024.35857.gene.heskett@verizon.net> <20081113023903.2D79B20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811122210.37039.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Wednesday 12 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >At 07:24 PM 11/12/2008, you wrote: >>Roger, I'm amazed at you. You have failed miserably the 'are you a >> packrat' test. Most folks on this list could not deny they are packrats, I >>sure can't. >>I probably have 10 or more old pc floppy cables, the twisted ones, cuz >>anytime someone gives me an old box, it gets stripped for stuff like that. >>All you need to do is pop the pc's idc connector off, and pop on a coco >> edge pattern connector. Fine tipped exacto to open the idc with, and a >> vice to put the edge connector on with. And a SHARP pair of scissors to >> trim the end of the cable in case its ragged. SE Razor blades can be used >> two. > >This office room is 25% packrat piles, thank ya very much. :) Neat >piles, that is. Only 25%? >Ok, a few are messy but this is my domain and it >ain't my fault it somebody comes in here and trips over a (looking >behind me for something on the floor...) a full-height CoCo floppy >drive without the case. :) That can be hard on the drive. :( >I did find my 'Box O' Ribbon Cables' in the closet and they all have >that stupid plastic wall inside of the edge connector. The CoCo >controllers don't have the notch for those. Also generally removable with a pair of suture clamps. But since the connector is also missing, I just replace them with connectors that have all their teeth. Anyway, those are the drive connectors, the end that plugs into the coco I've never seen a key in. >Anyway, my 3.5" is working just fine on the CoCo now. I've done >stuff like this in the past with my repack, etc. but things get foggy >over the years when you stop studying what you already accomplished >and moved on. I can testify to that, at length. :) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Q: What do Winnie the Pooh and John the Baptist have in common? A: The same middle name. From dml_68 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 23:01:41 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:01:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! Message-ID: <19557.70024.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The complete T&D Disk library archive and scans of the original manuals is now available. This archive has all 121 T&D disks in .DSK format and scans of the original manuals in both PDF and JPG formats. The link to the downloads can be found here: http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3517#3517 All the credit for this goes to Grandpa John who worked hard to get the original disks imaged and the original manuals scanned. We all owe him a big thank you! He also scanned the coco ads newsletters which was shared with the community recently and is working on more scans so again many thanks to him for his hard work in preserving coco stuff. I had asked on the list about how folks would prefer it uploaded. I decided to do it as one large archive, for some reason I thought there was a single file with an index of each disks contents but I was mistaken. If anyone wants to compile a single index file listing the contents of each disk please send it to me via e-mail and I will get it posted. If anyone has any software, scanned documents or publications they would like added to the archives contact me off list. I don't mind giving credit or can keep your submissions anon. Enjoy and watch for more archives being announced soon! Derek ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From deemcr at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 13 03:47:02 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:47:02 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Penguin problems... In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0811120738u33abaa6bjcf8690ef4852b374@mail.gmail.com> References: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <1226273409.6251.1.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <9efa17da0811120738u33abaa6bjcf8690ef4852b374@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1226566023.5393.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2006/04/born_to_code_pa.html Appears to be a site that the author of Penguin has put up. Great, the problem is there's no way to contact him through it. It seems that Nick Bradbury really wants to cartoon and beyond that I don't think he particularly likes email which probably explains why the site doesn't give contact information. If there's an archive I can access that has Penguin with the missing code, that'd be great. While we're at it, anyone have an electronic version of the beloved Rainbow magazine? This would be a great mueseum piece and it would be extremely useful for people like me who have aging Rainbow magazines with all the errors in them. On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 09:38 -0600, Sean wrote: > I think I sent that one to Derek to archive. > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:52 AM, Neil Morrison wrote: > > Anyone have Rainbow on Tape/Disk for that month/year? > > > > Neil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robinson" > > > > > >>> The program is Penguin, it is in the April 1990 issue of the Rainbow. > >>> On line 890 check is supposed to return 36 if the lines are typed in > >>> correctly. Well, there is a misprint and one of the lines isn't > >>> completely there. Anyone have a correction for this program? > > > >> I found a site by Nick Bradbury, but there doesn't appear to be any way > >> to contact him. Penguin is a cute little arcade game, apparently his > >> last. > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From brucewcalkins at charter.net Thu Nov 13 06:11:11 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:11:11 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! References: <19557.70024.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E2EB4EB1B524F5A9024CB3E60ED9D28@speedy> > The complete T&D Disk library archive and scans of the original manuals is > now available. This archive has all 121 T&D disks in .DSK format and scans > of the original manuals in both PDF and JPG formats. > > The link to the downloads can be found here: > > http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3517#3517 Well, it seems there is a limit to how much a free user can download from Rapidshare. Does anyone have another way to aquire these files? Their prices are a little steap for the services offered IMO. Bruce W. From dml_68 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 13 08:14:16 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:14:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! In-Reply-To: <6E2EB4EB1B524F5A9024CB3E60ED9D28@speedy> Message-ID: <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The limits is how much you can download per hour I think. I know some free users use a download manager and just schedule the downloads. I pay 9.95 per month to use the service and also to make sure the archives stay hosted long term. ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Bruce W. Calkins wrote: From: Bruce W. Calkins Subject: Re: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 3:11 AM > The complete T&D Disk library archive and scans of the original manuals is now available. This archive has all 121 T&D disks in .DSK format and scans of the original manuals in both PDF and JPG formats. > > The link to the downloads can be found here: > > http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3517#3517 Well, it seems there is a limit to how much a free user can download from Rapidshare. Does anyone have another way to aquire these files? Their prices are a little steap for the services offered IMO. Bruce W. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From neilsmorr at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 14:09:13 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:09:13 -0800 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: Penguin problems... References: <1226261611.308.2.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com><1226273409.6251.1.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com><9efa17da0811120738u33abaa6bjcf8690ef4852b374@mail.gmail.com> <1226566023.5393.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <4D3BD50337734D4A864416A4CE7A1E1C@NewBaby> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RainbowArchive Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robinson" > http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2006/04/born_to_code_pa.html > > Appears to be a site that the author of Penguin has put up. > Great, the problem is there's no way to contact him through it. > It seems that Nick Bradbury really wants to cartoon and beyond > that I don't think he particularly likes email which probably > explains why the site doesn't give contact information. > > If there's an archive I can access that has Penguin with the > missing code, that'd be great. While we're at it, anyone have > an electronic version of the beloved Rainbow magazine? This > would be a great mueseum piece and it would be extremely useful > for people like me who have aging Rainbow magazines with all the > errors in them. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Thu Nov 13 16:54:22 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:54:22 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! References: <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9A0CEA5E80E1455092BFB41AF1508050@speedy> O.K. I just got a second file after I got home from school. I clicked on the third and got the limit message. I'll give it another try later. Bruce W. > The limits is how much you can download per hour I think. > > Well, it seems there is a limit to how much a free user can download from > Rapidshare. > Does anyone have another way to aquire these files? > Their prices are a little steap for the services offered IMO. > > Bruce W. From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Thu Nov 13 18:45:42 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:45:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! In-Reply-To: <9A0CEA5E80E1455092BFB41AF1508050@speedy> Message-ID: <11781.59700.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you look, it will usually tell you how long to wait before you can download from their servers again. (15 min in between is what I get told.) -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Bruce W. Calkins wrote: > From: Bruce W. Calkins > Subject: Re: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 3:54 PM > O.K. I just got a second file after I got home from school. > I clicked on > the third and got the limit message. I'll give it > another try later. > > Bruce W. > > > > > > The limits is how much you can download per hour I > think. > > > > > > Well, it seems there is a limit to how much a free > user can download from > > Rapidshare. > > Does anyone have another way to aquire these files? > > Their prices are a little steap for the services > offered IMO. > > > > Bruce W. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From ed.orbea at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 21:47:37 2008 From: ed.orbea at gmail.com (Ed Orbea) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:47:37 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! Message-ID: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> I'm not going to complain/comment about Rapdishare, nor about the size of the files, nor about the time it takes to download. I just want to say THANK YOU for all you and Grandpa John have done for the CoCo community. We (the community) would still be endlessly talking about about what we can or can't do and why we can or can't do it, if not for you and your actions. I know I'll get flamed for this, but those who can - do, and those who can't - whine. Ed Orbea From rbihler at msn.com Thu Nov 13 22:53:19 2008 From: rbihler at msn.com (Ron Bihler) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:53:19 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! References: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree 100%, Thanks Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Orbea" To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:47 PM Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! > I'm not going to complain/comment about Rapdishare, nor about the size > of the files, nor about the time it takes to download. I just want to > say THANK YOU for all you and Grandpa John have done for the CoCo > community. We (the community) would still be endlessly talking about > about what we can or can't do and why we can or can't do it, if not for > you and your actions. > > I know I'll get flamed for this, but those who can - do, and those who > can't - whine. > > Ed Orbea > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From brucewcalkins at charter.net Thu Nov 13 23:04:51 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:04:51 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! References: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2850B36E8164440AB8915B4ADEF69C41@speedy> Well, I don't want my comments regarding my lack of understanding of Rapidshare methods of operations to be mistaken as complaints about the content. IMO the archiving of every facet of our favorite computer is a very important task. I only regret that I don't have the time to contribute as much as I want to. A Large Thank You and tip of the hat, to those who have put their time, effort, equipment and hard earned money into this preservation of history. Bruce W., Quietly and delightedly, downloading files around classes, odd jobs and the occasional nap. > I'm not going to complain/comment about Rapdishare, nor about the size of > the files, nor about the time it takes to download. I just want to say > THANK YOU for all you and Grandpa John have done for the CoCo community. > We (the community) would still be endlessly talking about about what we > can or can't do and why we can or can't do it, if not for you and your > actions. > > I know I'll get flamed for this, but those who can - do, and those who > can't - whine. > > Ed Orbea > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From badfrog at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 00:03:11 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:03:11 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! In-Reply-To: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> References: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811132103x420bbaa1w8ef9d989563d2eb@mail.gmail.com> I agree with your sentiments! As an aside, I wish there was an easy way to take all these archives and make them available on Bittorrent. Sadly my home upload speed sucks. I wish there was an easy way to accomplish this, then we could get the 'mame collector' people interested in some CoCo stuff. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Ed Orbea wrote: > I'm not going to complain/comment about Rapdishare, nor about the size of > the files, nor about the time it takes to download. I just want to say THANK > YOU for all you and Grandpa John have done for the CoCo community. We (the > community) would still be endlessly talking about about what we can or can't > do and why we can or can't do it, if not for you and your actions. > > I know I'll get flamed for this, but those who can - do, and those who can't > - whine. > > Ed Orbea > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at verizon.net Fri Nov 14 05:50:37 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 05:50:37 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Complete T&D Software Archive Now available!! In-Reply-To: <9efa17da0811132103x420bbaa1w8ef9d989563d2eb@mail.gmail.com> References: <491CE6C9.5000402@gmail.com> <9efa17da0811132103x420bbaa1w8ef9d989563d2eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200811140550.37911.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Friday 14 November 2008, Sean wrote: >I agree with your sentiments! > >As an aside, I wish there was an easy way to take all these archives >and make them available on Bittorrent. Sadly my home upload speed >sucks. I wish there was an easy way to accomplish this, then we could >get the 'mame collector' people interested in some CoCo stuff. > Sadly my upload speed is also pretty poor, 30k/sec at best if there is to be anything left for me to suck email with. However, us linux users have several torrent creators at our disposal, and if I had all of this already downloaded, which I don't, rapidshare's enforced delays and speed limits are just long enough that I go on to something else and the whole thing gets forgotten till the next day's messages from this list. CRS is getting worse, darnit. So I could 'seed' some of this, and if we had a dozen more like me, the download speed on the receivers side wouldn't be too shabby. Does anyone else want to throw in an oar and paddle too? If so I'll start trying to dl more of this. Disk space is not a problem here. [...] >> I know I'll get flamed for this, but those who can - do, and those who >> can't - whine. So lets do! -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "First things first -- but not necessarily in that order" -- The Doctor, "Doctor Who" From johnguin at hotmail.com Fri Nov 14 21:53:08 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:53:08 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6E2EB4EB1B524F5A9024CB3E60ED9D28@speedy> <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello all, I'm sure by now many of you have seen Project Euler"at http://projecteuler.net/. If not, they have math problems to solve. One example is the 9th easiest: Find the product of a,b,c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and a+b+b=1000. I used my Coco2 to solve this problem in 11 and a half minutes using the high speed poke. At the risk of flooding the list with BASIC code, I hope my short program here will spur comments and optimizations: 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 30 C = 1000 -A -B 40 IF C | with less resistance!" From tim.stahlhut at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 23:59:07 2008 From: tim.stahlhut at gmail.com (Tim S) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco References: <6E2EB4EB1B524F5A9024CB3E60ED9D28@speedy> <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Link to problem http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=9 Tim S From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 01:11:16 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:11:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC needed Message-ID: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> Well folks, I don't know what happened but my Disto Super Controller I which hasn't been able to write suddenly started causing read errors a while ago. Doing a 'DIR' on any floppy either causes the CoCo to crash or the screen will clear, the video will glitch real quick, then you get the cursor. I've tried 3 cables, recleaned the contacts (which were already clean), tried 3 CoCo's and 2 different drives with the same results. I even reseated the chips. Please tell me this is just a capacitor or something I can replace. :) Jeez. I was 1 minute from burning an EPROM and was overly anxious to make some progress. I don't understand what causes CoCo floppy controllers to suddenly break like this but over the years I've had many controllers do about the same thing, crash the CoCo when trying to read a disk. In the pile they went. If this sounds like a common WD1773 problem, where can I find one? At any rate, I desparately need a Super Controller with the MEB connector so I can use my MPROM attachment. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 01:22:44 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:22:44 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491E4C32.2020002@iinet.net.au> References: <6E2EB4EB1B524F5A9024CB3E60ED9D28@speedy> <131687.56335.qm@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <491E4C32.2020002@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491E6AB4.4000302@iinet.net.au> Mark McDougall wrote: > 1. 20 FOR B=500-A TO 500+A gives result 40% quicker Still something wrong with that upper bound... :( -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From mechacoco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 01:40:34 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:40:34 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC needed In-Reply-To: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> Roger, Do you hear the heads move before the crash? Does it seem to crash at a point where it would actually be reading a sector (seek to the correct track completes successfully)? This usually indicates a problem with the HALT or NMI, but those problems are normally isolated to an individual CoCo (CPU). You say this happens with several CoCos which has me a liitle perplexed. You can try this BASIC one-liner to test the controller's HALT circuit: POKE &HFF48,3:POKE &HFF40,128 The CoCo should freeze for 8 seconds before the OK prompt appears again. If you see the typical crash behavior immediately then the problem could be related to someting with the HALT circuit. If it occurs at the 8 second mark then it could be something related to the assertion of NMI. Is this your only controller? You could always try swapping a 1773 from another controller (not including the 26-3022 or early version of the 26-3029). You can also make an offer on one of these eBay listings: Darren ---- On 11/14/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > Well folks, I don't know what happened but my Disto Super Controller > I which hasn't been able to write suddenly started causing read > errors a while ago. > > Doing a 'DIR' on any floppy either causes the CoCo to crash or the > screen will clear, the video will glitch real quick, then you get the > cursor. I've tried 3 cables, recleaned the contacts (which were > already clean), tried 3 CoCo's and 2 different drives with the same > results. I even reseated the chips. > > Please tell me this is just a capacitor or something I can > replace. :) Jeez. I was 1 minute from burning an EPROM and was > overly anxious to make some progress. > > I don't understand what causes CoCo floppy controllers to suddenly > break like this but over the years I've had many controllers do about > the same thing, crash the CoCo when trying to read a disk. In the > pile they went. > > If this sounds like a common WD1773 problem, where can I find one? > > At any rate, I desparately need a Super Controller with the MEB > connector so I can use my MPROM attachment. > -- > Roger Taylor > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sat Nov 15 01:41:52 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:41:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491E4C32.2020002@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <367495.98557.qm@web31101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Line 40: the OR clause in the if statement slows things down, because once C >= A, then it tests BOTH C < A AND C < B. So Drop the "C wrote: > From: Mark McDougall > Subject: Re: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 10:12 PM > John wrote: > > > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 > > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 > > 30 C = 1000 -A -B > > 40 IF C > 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 > > 60 NEXT B,A > > 100 PRINT "A="A > > 110 PRINT "B="B > > 120 PRINT "C="C > > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C > > Not sure whether you mean algorithm optimisation, code > optimisation, or both? > > 1. 20 FOR B=500-A TO 500+A gives result 40% quicker > 2. pre-calc A*A at line 15 to run quicker > > that's all I can see so far... > > Regards, > > -- | Mark McDougall | > "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with > less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mechacoco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 01:53:08 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:53:08 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <367495.98557.qm@web31101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <491E4C32.2020002@iinet.net.au> <367495.98557.qm@web31101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811142253j7b8facadp3a74dd7bd3224fb8@mail.gmail.com> On 11/14/08, Bill Barnes wrote: > > ... > > As far as precalc-ing A*A, would there not be an increase in speed to also > precalc B*B and C*C? > > ... > >> > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 >> > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 >> > 30 C = 1000 -A -B >> > 40 IF C> > 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 >> > 60 NEXT B,A >> > 100 PRINT "A="A >> > 110 PRINT "B="B >> > 120 PRINT "C="C >> > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C No. B*B and C*C have different values on each iteration of the inner loop, and those expressions are only used once inside that loop. Darren From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 02:06:20 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:06:20 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> At 12:40 AM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >Roger, > >Do you hear the heads move before the crash? Does it seem to crash at >a point where it would actually be reading a sector (seek to the >correct track completes successfully)? This usually indicates a >problem with the HALT or NMI, but those problems are normally isolated >to an individual CoCo (CPU). You say this happens with several CoCos >which has me a liitle perplexed. You can try this BASIC one-liner to >test the controller's HALT circuit: > >POKE &HFF48,3:POKE &HFF40,128 Darren, You're a genious. I don't think I've ever seen a solution from you that wasn't 99.9% or 100% "good". I typed those POKEs and the problem was reproduced. I tried another 64k ECB CoCo 2 and now my "controller" works. So, I suppose both of my CoCo 1's have the NMI line screwed up. Is there a fix for THAT ? :) I guess I could have wiggled the controller on accident while the power was on. Many thanks on the tip! -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From mechacoco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 02:16:26 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:16:26 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> On 11/15/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > ... > > I typed those POKEs and the problem was reproduced. I tried another > 64k ECB CoCo 2 and now my "controller" works. So, I suppose both of > my CoCo 1's have the NMI line screwed up. Is there a fix for THAT ? :) > Roger. The problem is almost certainly a blown HALT line inside the CPU. I've had two such processors which behaved normally except when disk I/O was performed. In both cases, tests revealed a blown HALT line. The 6809 seems to be plagued by this problem. Replacing the CPU will most likely fix the CoCos so they can once again use disks. Darren From thierry.mella at skynet.be Sat Nov 15 04:39:56 2008 From: thierry.mella at skynet.be (Thierry Mella) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:39:56 +0100 Subject: [Coco] [Fedor] Timing is perfect ! Message-ID: <491E98EC.4000004@skynet.be> Hi Fedor ! How are you ? I'm back in Brussels for the winter so the timing is perfect for the CoCo exchange ! I'd like to ask you if you have already succeed to test the hardware (CoCo3 itself & the drives) ? What's included in your package ? & what's its cost (the material itself + postal invoice) ? Cheers, Thierry -- Engineering is the Art of making what you want from things you can get. From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 06:10:19 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:10:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the limits aren't right. Here's how I figure it: Since we want a <= b < c, let b=a+d1 and c=b+d2, where d1 >= 0 and d2 > 0. Then a+b+c=1000 is equivalent to a+(a+d1)+((a+d1)+d2)=1000, or 3a+2d1+d2=1000. The minimum value of d1, the difference between b and a, is 0; what is its maximum? For a given value of a, the maximum of d1 occurs when d2 assumes its minimum value of one, giving d1=(1000-3a-1)/2. So, I'd start with 10 FOR A=1 TO 333 (why is A=1 excluded in the original?) 20 BH=A+INT((1000-3*A-1)/2): A2=A*A 30 FOR B=A TO BH etc. Since this upper limit for B guarantees that C will exceed A and B, the check in line 40 may be omitted. I see no apparent reason why B must be in the range 334 to 667, as John assumed. Why exclude, for example, the abc combination 200, 300, 500, which properly adds to 1000, from testing? Art On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure by now many of you have seen Project Euler"at > http://projecteuler.net/. > > If not, they have math problems to solve. One example is the 9th easiest: > Find the product of a,b,c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and a+b+b=1000. > > I used my Coco2 to solve this problem in 11 and a half minutes using the > high speed poke. At the risk of flooding the list with BASIC code, I hope > my short program here will spur comments and optimizations: > > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 > 30 C = 1000 -A -B > 40 IF C 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 > 60 NEXT B,A > 100 PRINT "A="A > 110 PRINT "B="B > 120 PRINT "C="C > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C > > For example, one optimization became clear after I had the answer. As a > hint, I could cut run time by about 40%... > > I hope everyone has some fun with these, > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 06:27:46 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:27:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just thought of a simpler and easier way to explain how to get the appropriate upper limit for B: Imagine a board of length 1000, to be divided into 3 pieces, A, B, and C, of ascending size. Whatever the size of A is (and it can't exceed 1/3 of the total length, to achieve ascending lengths), the remaining 1000-A of length must be divided between B and C. The ascending length requirement means that B must take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. My expression A+INT((1000-3*A-1)/2) for the maximum value of B simplifies to that, if we disregard the '-1' that is the minimum required difference between B and C. Art On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Arthur Flexser wrote: > I think the limits aren't right. Here's how I figure it: > > Since we want a <= b < c, let b=a+d1 and c=b+d2, where d1 >= 0 and d2 > 0. > Then a+b+c=1000 is equivalent to a+(a+d1)+((a+d1)+d2)=1000, or 3a+2d1+d2=1000. > The minimum value of d1, the difference between b and a, is 0; what is its > maximum? For a given value of a, the maximum of d1 occurs when d2 assumes its > minimum value of one, giving d1=(1000-3a-1)/2. So, I'd start with > > 10 FOR A=1 TO 333 (why is A=1 excluded in the original?) > 20 BH=A+INT((1000-3*A-1)/2): A2=A*A > 30 FOR B=A TO BH > > etc. > > Since this upper limit for B guarantees that C will exceed A and B, the check in > line 40 may be omitted. > > I see no apparent reason why B must be in the range 334 to 667, as John > assumed. Why exclude, for example, the abc combination 200, 300, 500, which > properly adds to 1000, from testing? > > Art > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, John wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I'm sure by now many of you have seen Project Euler"at > > http://projecteuler.net/. > > > > If not, they have math problems to solve. One example is the 9th easiest: > > Find the product of a,b,c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and a+b+b=1000. > > > > I used my Coco2 to solve this problem in 11 and a half minutes using the > > high speed poke. At the risk of flooding the list with BASIC code, I hope > > my short program here will spur comments and optimizations: > > > > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 > > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 > > 30 C = 1000 -A -B > > 40 IF C > 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 > > 60 NEXT B,A > > 100 PRINT "A="A > > 110 PRINT "B="B > > 120 PRINT "C="C > > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C > > > > For example, one optimization became clear after I had the answer. As a > > hint, I could cut run time by about 40%... > > > > I hope everyone has some fun with these, > > John > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 07:12:29 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:12:29 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491EBCAD.1050908@iinet.net.au> Arthur Flexser wrote: > I see no apparent reason why B must be in the range 334 to 667, as John > assumed. Why exclude, for example, the abc combination 200, 300, 500, which > properly adds to 1000, from testing? because (a+b) < c Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 07:26:14 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:26:14 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> Arthur Flexser wrote: > The ascending length requirement means that B must > take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. (a^2 + b^2)= c^2 (a^2 + b^2) = (a+b)^2 - 2ab = c^2 therefore, a+b > c a + b > (1000 - a - b) 2a + 2b > 1000 (a+b) > 500 ie, b > (500-a) and using Arthur's observation (nice work) FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 reduces the number of iterations to find the solution to 10,174 from the original 66,174 iterations - a massive 85% reduction! Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 07:29:32 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:29:32 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EBCAD.1050908@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBCAD.1050908@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491EC0AC.5010604@iinet.net.au> Mark McDougall wrote: > because (a+b) < c sorry, (a+b) > c -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 07:52:42 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:52:42 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> Mark McDougall wrote: Even faster in BASIC... 10 FOR A=2 TO 333 20 A2=A*A; C=500 30 FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 40 IF A2+B*B=C*C THEN 100 50 C=C-1 60 NEXT B,A 100 ' print result Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 08:00:39 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:00:39 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491EC7F7.805@iinet.net.au> Arthur Flexser wrote: > 10 FOR A=1 TO 333 (why is A=1 excluded in the original?) since (a+b) > 500 if (a=1) (1+b) > 500 or b>499 so b=500 which is impossible if b | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 08:02:02 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:02:02 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491EC84A.6020103@iinet.net.au> Mark McDougall wrote: > Even faster in BASIC... What execution time do you get for this one John? Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 08:10:49 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:10:49 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491ECA59.5020701@iinet.net.au> Mark McDougall wrote: > Even faster in BASIC... Not sure about the integer multiplication routines in BASIC... but you may also be able to use the fact that (a+1)^2 = a^2 + 2a + 1 ... ??? -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From jcewy at swbell.net Sat Nov 15 09:43:04 2008 From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:43:04 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> Darren A wrote: > On 11/15/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > >> ... >> >> I typed those POKEs and the problem was reproduced. I tried another >> 64k ECB CoCo 2 and now my "controller" works. So, I suppose both of >> my CoCo 1's have the NMI line screwed up. Is there a fix for THAT ? :) >> >> > > Roger. The problem is almost certainly a blown HALT line inside the > CPU. I've had two such processors which behaved normally except when > disk I/O was performed. In both cases, tests revealed a blown HALT > line. The 6809 seems to be plagued by this problem. Replacing the CPU > will most likely fix the CoCos so they can once again use disks. > > Darren > > Hmm. Could you use a Super Controller II with a CPU that has no HALT line? :) (Probably not easily in practice, since the SCII runs in halt mode until the OS-9-only no-halt driver is loaded, and how will you boot OS-9? Can you boot OS-9 over Drivewire? Or you could burn OS-9 into EPROM. I guess you could also use it in a cassette only system...) JCE > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 09:45:22 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:45:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Mark, While I agree that b > (500-a), (and nice work to you, too), b must also be greater than or equal to a. So, for maximum efficiency, the lower bound of b should be either a or (500-a), whichever is greater. That is, use a as the lower bound if a > 250, and (500-a) as the lower bound otherwise, to save yet more iterations when a is between 250 and 333. Art On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Mark McDougall wrote: > Arthur Flexser wrote: > > > The ascending length requirement means that B must > > take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. > > (a^2 + b^2)= c^2 > (a^2 + b^2) = (a+b)^2 - 2ab = c^2 > therefore, a+b > c > a + b > (1000 - a - b) > 2a + 2b > 1000 > (a+b) > 500 > ie, b > (500-a) > > and using Arthur's observation (nice work) > > FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 > > reduces the number of iterations to find the solution to 10,174 from the > original 66,174 iterations - a massive 85% reduction! > > Regards, > > -- > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sat Nov 15 13:08:35 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:08:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EBCAD.1050908@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <993729.74544.qm@web31102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> reread the link: http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=9 it specifically states the values meet the following criteria. A A+B A+B+C=1000 A^2+B^2=C^2 when you find values fpr A, B, and C that meet these, you have to multiply them together (A*B*C) to obtain it's value. At least that is the way I understand it. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sat, 11/15/08, someone wrote: > > I see no apparent reason why B must be in the range 334 to 667, as > > John assumed. Why exclude, for example, the abc combination 200, 300, > > 500, which properly adds to 1000, from testing? > because (a+b) < c From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 13:24:31 2008 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:24:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story Message-ID: This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB video from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter. I'm pleased to report that it works quite well! 40-column text does not fill the display, but 80-column mode runs right to the edges and looks terrific. These little boards are about $70 from the distributor and require a 12VDC wall-wart power supply. I mounted mine in a Radio Shmacked project box. FWIW, I'm using a Dell 17" LCD display. Steve -- From jps.subscriptions at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 13:41:37 2008 From: jps.subscriptions at gmail.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:41:37 -0700 Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB > video from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter. > I'm pleased to report that it works quite well! Any plans to do a write-up on how you put this together, Steven? How's the quality? Have you ever used Roy's converter to be able to compare results? -- JP From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 13:54:30 2008 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:54:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, J.P. Samson wrote: > On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB video >> from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter. I'm pleased to >> report that it works quite well! > > Any plans to do a write-up on how you put this together, Steven? How's the > quality? Have you ever used Roy's converter to be able to compare results? There's not a whole lot to write up... It's just a matter of building a cable with a 10-pin ribbon cable header on one end. If you are not sharing the converter with other classic machines, you just splice the other end to the header supplied with the converter board. The signals are just 1:1, connect Gnd, R, G, B, H-sync and V-sync and you're good to go. The pinout for the bottom of the CoCo 3 is widely available. The converter board has a PC mounted power jack for the wall-wart and a female VGA connector for the monitor. No assembly required except for a box if you so choose. I have seen Roy's converter on a web page, but was not aware of it when I started the project to replace all my aging/dying CRTs. Also, I have the impression that it's specific for the CoCo and I need something that would work with any 15Khz. analog RGB source. I did have to build a little board to convert digital RGBI from the C128 to analog RGB. It just sits between the Commodore and the Wei-Ya converter (I do have to switch plugs when going from the C128 to the CoCo). Steve -- From jps.subscriptions at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:04:44 2008 From: jps.subscriptions at gmail.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:04:44 -0700 Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, J.P. Samson wrote: > >> On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run >>> RGB video from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA >>> converter. I'm pleased to report that it works quite well! >> >> Any plans to do a write-up on how you put this together, Steven? >> How's the quality? Have you ever used Roy's converter to be able >> to compare results? > > There's not a whole lot to write up... It's just a matter of > building a cable with a 10-pin ribbon cable header on one end. If > you are not sharing the converter with other classic machines, you > just splice the other end to the header supplied with the converter > board. The signals are just 1:1, connect Gnd, R, G, B, H-sync and V- > sync and you're good to go. The pinout for the bottom of the CoCo 3 > is widely available. Nice and easy, that's for sure. I'd guess that Roy's converter does a better job, since it is specifically designed for the CoCo 3 and includes a filter to absorb some of the vertical banding that is an artifact of the computer's RGB output. Roy's adapter has difficulty clearly resolving some color combinations, though, making such text hard to read. I found a link describing the board you used: http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=111&pid=118&top_fid= -- JP From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:36:59 2008 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:36:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, J.P. Samson wrote: > > On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, J.P. Samson wrote: >> >>> On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>> This morning I finally got motivated and built an adapter to run RGB >>>> video from my CoCo 3 into the Wei-Ya ACV-011 RGB-->VGA converter. I'm >>>> pleased to report that it works quite well! >>> >>> Any plans to do a write-up on how you put this together, Steven? How's >>> the quality? Have you ever used Roy's converter to be able to compare >>> results? >> >> There's not a whole lot to write up... It's just a matter of building a >> cable with a 10-pin ribbon cable header on one end. If you are not sharing >> the converter with other classic machines, you just splice the other end to >> the header supplied with the converter board. The signals are just 1:1, >> connect Gnd, R, G, B, H-sync and V-sync and you're good to go. The pinout >> for the bottom of the CoCo 3 is widely available. > > Nice and easy, that's for sure. I'd guess that Roy's converter does a better > job, since it is specifically designed for the CoCo 3 and includes a filter > to absorb some of the vertical banding that is an artifact of the computer's > RGB output. Roy's adapter has difficulty clearly resolving some color > combinations, though, making such text hard to read. The vertical banding is very slight and appears on every classic computer I've run through a converter. Even my pricey Highway Model 100 (used for Apple IIGS and Amiga) exhibits this. In general, VGA CRT displays look a bit better than LCD units but since that defeats my goal I just live with it. Someday I'll fiddle with a low-pass filter for the video signals to see if it can be cleaned up a bit more, but it's not really bothering me. > I found a link describing the board you used: > http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=111&pid=118&top_fid= That's the one. Steve -- From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 15:35:37 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:35:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <993729.74544.qm@web31102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Bill Barnes wrote: > reread the link: http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=9 > > it specifically states the values meet the following criteria. > > A A+B > A+B+C=1000 > A^2+B^2=C^2 Mark meant c < a+b, as he says in a later message, which follows from the fact that the hypotenuse of a right triangle must be less than the sum of the two other sides (the triangle collapses into a straight line as c approaches equality with a+b as the angle between sides a and b approaches 180 degrees). Mark also proved algebraically in a later message that c < a+b follows from a^2+b^2=c^2. I wrote: > > > I see no apparent reason why B must be in the range 334 to 667, as > > > John assumed. Why exclude, for example, the abc combination 200, 300, > > > 500, which properly adds to 1000, from testing? > and Mark replied: > > because (a+b) < c [should be a+b>c, which the example also violates] Okay, bad example; make it 200, 320, 480 as a plausible example that John excludes from testing by assuming that b is at least 334. They add to 1000; a References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811151349s55de507bh677adbdcd462b77@mail.gmail.com> On 11/15/08, Joel Ewy wrote: > Darren A wrote: >> >> Roger. The problem is almost certainly a blown HALT line inside the >> CPU. I've had two such processors which behaved normally except when >> disk I/O was performed. In both cases, tests revealed a blown HALT >> line. The 6809 seems to be plagued by this problem. Replacing the CPU >> will most likely fix the CoCos so they can once again use disks. >> >> Darren >> >> > Hmm. Could you use a Super Controller II with a CPU that has no HALT > line? :) (Probably not easily in practice, since the SCII runs in halt > mode until the OS-9-only no-halt driver is loaded, and how will you boot > OS-9? Can you boot OS-9 over Drivewire? Or you could burn OS-9 into > EPROM. I guess you could also use it in a cassette only system...) > > JCE Even with a standard Tandy controller, it is possible to burn a new Disk Basic EPROM with a modified version of the DSKCON routine which does not enable HALT (but still requires that interrupts be masked). The same could be done for the rb1773 driver for OS-9 and NitrOS-9. This would allow a CoCo whose CPU has a blown HALT line to be able to run most disk-based software. Programs which implement their own disk I/O functions would still be inoperable. Darren From jcewy at swbell.net Sat Nov 15 17:08:21 2008 From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:08:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811151349s55de507bh677adbdcd462b77@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> <5d802cd0811151349s55de507bh677adbdcd462b77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491F4855.7040101@swbell.net> Darren A wrote: > On 11/15/08, Joel Ewy wrote: > >> Darren A wrote: >> >>> Roger. The problem is almost certainly a blown HALT line inside the >>> CPU. I've had two such processors which behaved normally except when >>> disk I/O was performed. In both cases, tests revealed a blown HALT >>> line. The 6809 seems to be plagued by this problem. Replacing the CPU >>> will most likely fix the CoCos so they can once again use disks. >>> >>> Darren >>> >>> >>> >> Hmm. Could you use a Super Controller II with a CPU that has no HALT >> line? :) (Probably not easily in practice, since the SCII runs in halt >> mode until the OS-9-only no-halt driver is loaded, and how will you boot >> OS-9? Can you boot OS-9 over Drivewire? Or you could burn OS-9 into >> EPROM. I guess you could also use it in a cassette only system...) >> >> JCE >> > > > Even with a standard Tandy controller, it is possible to burn a new > Disk Basic EPROM with a modified version of the DSKCON routine which > does not enable HALT (but still requires that interrupts be masked). > The same could be done for the rb1773 driver for OS-9 and NitrOS-9. > This would allow a CoCo whose CPU has a blown HALT line to be able to > run most disk-based software. Programs which implement their own disk > I/O functions would still be inoperable. > > Darren > > So it would just poll the FDC register in a busy loop until a sector was ready? JCE > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 17:26:24 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:26:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Better yet, use a+1 as the lower bound for b if a > 250, since b must be strictly greater than a. Changing the lower bound if a > 250 is not only efficient, but also necessary to avoid violating the requirement that b > a. (I'd originally considered the possiblity that b could equal a, overlooking the problem specification that b>a. In any case, b could not equal a, since that would make c equal to a times the square root of 2, inconsistent with the requirement that c be an integer.) Similarly, if a <= 250, use (501-a) as the lower bound for b, since b must be at least one greater than (500-a). Also on the same theme, the requirement that c be at least one greater than b means the upper bound for b should be (999-a)/2 rather than (1000-a)/2. I'd do it as two successive FOR/NEXT loops, the first taking A from 2 to 250 with B ranging from (501-A) to (999-A)/2, and the second taking A from 251 to 333 with B ranging from (A+1) to (999-A)/2. (Come to think of it, the upper bound for A should be 332 rather than 333, since if A were 333, then the minimums for B and C would be 334 and 335, which adds to 1002.) A more satisfying comparison than how many iterations are needed to find the solution would be how many iterations are necessary to search the parameter space to completion, in order to verify that there is only one solution. It is a bit puzzling that the problem asks for the value of a*b*c for no obvious reason. The only explanation that occurs to me is that it is possible to deduce this value mathematically without doing a trial-and-error search of all eligible a-b-c combinations and without knowing the individual values of a, b, and c that constitute the complete solution. (By the way, what ARE those values?) Art On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Arthur Flexser wrote: > Mark, > > While I agree that b > (500-a), (and nice work to you, too), b must also be > greater than or equal to a. So, for maximum efficiency, the lower bound of b > should be either a or (500-a), whichever is greater. That is, use a as the > lower bound if a > 250, and (500-a) as the lower bound otherwise, to save yet > more iterations when a is between 250 and 333. > > Art > > > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Mark McDougall wrote: > > > Arthur Flexser wrote: > > > > > The ascending length requirement means that B must > > > take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. > > > > (a^2 + b^2)= c^2 > > (a^2 + b^2) = (a+b)^2 - 2ab = c^2 > > therefore, a+b > c > > a + b > (1000 - a - b) > > 2a + 2b > 1000 > > (a+b) > 500 > > ie, b > (500-a) > > > > and using Arthur's observation (nice work) > > > > FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 > > > > reduces the number of iterations to find the solution to 10,174 from the > > original 66,174 iterations - a massive 85% reduction! > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > > | | with less resistance!" > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 17:59:28 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:59:28 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491F5450.1080304@iinet.net.au> Arthur Flexser wrote: > (By the way, what ARE those values?) 200, 375 & 425 Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 18:20:46 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:20:46 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491F594E.8080404@iinet.net.au> Arthur Flexser wrote: > I'd do it as two successive FOR/NEXT loops, the first taking A from 2 to 250 > with B ranging from (501-A) to (999-A)/2, and the second taking A from 251 to > 333 with B ranging from (A+1) to (999-A)/2. (Come to think of it, the upper > bound for A should be 332 rather than 333, since if A were 333, then the > minimums for B and C would be 334 and 335, which adds to 1002.) > > A more satisfying comparison than how many iterations are needed to find the > solution would be how many iterations are necessary to search the parameter > space to completion, in order to verify that there is only one solution. My code as posted finds the solution in 10,174 iterations, with 28,054 iterations required to search the solution space. Your optimisation requires 9826 iterations, with 20,584 in total! John's OP - 66,309/110,556 Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From mechacoco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 18:31:11 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:31:11 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <491F4855.7040101@swbell.net> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> <5d802cd0811151349s55de507bh677adbdcd462b77@mail.gmail.com> <491F4855.7040101@swbell.net> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811151531i18bcafb7xff299d7c0fb335b@mail.gmail.com> On 11/15/08, Joel Ewy wrote: >> >> >> Even with a standard Tandy controller, it is possible to burn a new >> Disk Basic EPROM with a modified version of the DSKCON routine which >> does not enable HALT (but still requires that interrupts be masked). >> The same could be done for the rb1773 driver for OS-9 and NitrOS-9. >> This would allow a CoCo whose CPU has a blown HALT line to be able to >> run most disk-based software. Programs which implement their own disk >> I/O functions would still be inoperable. >> >> Darren >> >> > So it would just poll the FDC register in a busy loop until a sector was > ready? > > JCE DSKCON already polls the FDC in a busy loop for the first DRQ indicating that a sector is ready. HALT is enabled after the first byte is transferred so that the CPU then runs only when DRQ is asserted. This allows the read or write loop to just run forever until the NMI, with no polling of DRQ. A version which does not enable HALT would have to poll for DRQ on every byte. There is not much time to do this so it must be coded carefully. Since DRQ polling is involved, you also need to be certain that all instructions which poll the FDC status register for DRQ are located at a safe address. This is due to a timing issue that occurs with controllers using a WD1773 FDC. This is easy to solve when creating a new Disk Basic EPROM, but a new rb1773 driver would require code to detect the actual runtime address and then fork to one of two alternate read/write loops. It's a fair amount of work which could be more easily solved by obtaining a new CPU with a good HALT line. Darren From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 19:06:19 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:06:19 -0600 Subject: [Coco] $9.95 EPROM eraser Message-ID: <20081116000647.8AD2D20A13@qs281.pair.com> Hey guys, you might want to check out my finding I posted about in the CoCo forums... http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=789 -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 19:09:37 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:09:37 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes Message-ID: <20081116001017.90CB720A13@qs281.pair.com> I can't for the life of me figure out why my MPROM board will do everything it's supposed to do except WRITE the EPROMs. The voltage regulator is showing Ground, 12.5v, 21v, and the source voltage. I haven't checked the EPROM socket VCC pin yet. I guess I need to reheat the solder joints. The EPROMs are reporting blank and I've tried 27128, 27256, and some 2764 clones, using the 12.5v jumper setting then the 21v, but I have 60+ EPROMs and I doubt all of them are bad. Most are new, so obviously something is going wrong on the board. The software gets to the first write of address $0000 and reports "Not programmed properly" and quits. In other words, the write didn't take. Checking the EPROM again reports it to still be completely blank with $FF's. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 19:14:03 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:14:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC (NOT) needed In-Reply-To: <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> References: <20081115061142.4E80F20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142240i3e3291fpce202b568021708b@mail.gmail.com> <20081115070645.471B620A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811142316r628bbd56o3b8718054fa20599@mail.gmail.com> <491EDFF8.7040705@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20081116001431.9EB1C20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 08:43 AM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >Darren A wrote: > > On 11/15/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > > >> ... > >> > >> I typed those POKEs and the problem was reproduced. I tried another > >> 64k ECB CoCo 2 and now my "controller" works. So, I suppose both of > >> my CoCo 1's have the NMI line screwed up. Is there a fix for THAT ? :) > >> > >> > > > > Roger. The problem is almost certainly a blown HALT line inside the > > CPU. I've had two such processors which behaved normally except when > > disk I/O was performed. In both cases, tests revealed a blown HALT > > line. The 6809 seems to be plagued by this problem. Replacing the CPU > > will most likely fix the CoCos so they can once again use disks. > > > > Darren > > > > >Hmm. Could you use a Super Controller II with a CPU that has no HALT >line? :) (Probably not easily in practice, since the SCII runs in halt >mode until the OS-9-only no-halt driver is loaded, and how will you boot >OS-9? Can you boot OS-9 over Drivewire? Or you could burn OS-9 into >EPROM. I guess you could also use it in a cassette only system...) I just discovered that my Disto Super Controller (1?) is not broken, afterall. It writes now! My CoCo 1 I was using on obviously has some cartridge slot pin problems. Using it in another CoCo fixed everything. :) Yeeha. Now if I can only get my MPROM burner to write to the EPROMs, all will be glorious here. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From tonym at compusource.net Sat Nov 15 19:24:10 2008 From: tonym at compusource.net (tonym) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:24:10 GMT Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes Message-ID: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> You DID notice that it came with a harness for (3) 9V batteries, right? As I said - I have NO idea on the condition of that unit. It was in a box I got from Art before he moved, hence why I wouldn't "sell" it to you. Wouldn't have been right... Tony -----Original Message----- From: Roger Taylor operator at coco3.com Sent 11/15/2008 7:09:37 PM To: cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes I can't for the life of me figure out why my MPROM board will do everything it's supposed to do except WRITE the EPROMs. The voltage regulator is showing Ground, 12.5v, 21v, and the source voltage. I haven't checked the EPROM socket VCC pin yet. I guess I need to reheat the solder joints. The EPROMs are reporting blank and I've tried 27128, 27256, and some 2764 clones, using the 12.5v jumper setting then the 21v, but I have 60+ EPROMs and I doubt all of them are bad. Most are new, so obviously something is going wrong on the board. The software gets to the first write of address $0000 and reports "Not programmed properly" and quits. In other words, the write didn't take. Checking the EPROM again reports it to still be completely blank with $FF's. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ?????????? From johnguin at hotmail.com Sat Nov 15 19:29:23 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:29:23 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: At the risk of replying to a slightly older thread: Wouldn't this code actually run slower because os the precalc in line 20? An extra variable (A2) gets created only to be used one time - seems to me it would be fractionally faster if that step was eliminated and A*A was computed, used and discarded after line 40... John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Mark McDougall Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:53 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco Mark McDougall wrote: Even faster in BASIC... 10 FOR A=2 TO 333 20 A2=A*A; C=500 30 FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 40 IF A2+B*B=C*C THEN 100 50 C=C-1 60 NEXT B,A 100 ' print result Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From johnguin at hotmail.com Sat Nov 15 19:34:15 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:34:15 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The reason you get asked for a*b*c is the web page only has a single input box to verify your answer. Kind of a mundane answer (but leads to a whole realm of alternate solutions that may share the same prime factors...). John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Flexser Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:26 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco Better yet, use a+1 as the lower bound for b if a > 250, since b must be strictly greater than a. Changing the lower bound if a > 250 is not only efficient, but also necessary to avoid violating the requirement that b > a. (I'd originally considered the possiblity that b could equal a, overlooking the problem specification that b>a. In any case, b could not equal a, since that would make c equal to a times the square root of 2, inconsistent with the requirement that c be an integer.) Similarly, if a <= 250, use (501-a) as the lower bound for b, since b must be at least one greater than (500-a). Also on the same theme, the requirement that c be at least one greater than b means the upper bound for b should be (999-a)/2 rather than (1000-a)/2. I'd do it as two successive FOR/NEXT loops, the first taking A from 2 to 250 with B ranging from (501-A) to (999-A)/2, and the second taking A from 251 to 333 with B ranging from (A+1) to (999-A)/2. (Come to think of it, the upper bound for A should be 332 rather than 333, since if A were 333, then the minimums for B and C would be 334 and 335, which adds to 1002.) A more satisfying comparison than how many iterations are needed to find the solution would be how many iterations are necessary to search the parameter space to completion, in order to verify that there is only one solution. It is a bit puzzling that the problem asks for the value of a*b*c for no obvious reason. The only explanation that occurs to me is that it is possible to deduce this value mathematically without doing a trial-and-error search of all eligible a-b-c combinations and without knowing the individual values of a, b, and c that constitute the complete solution. (By the way, what ARE those values?) Art On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Arthur Flexser wrote: > Mark, > > While I agree that b > (500-a), (and nice work to you, too), b must also be > greater than or equal to a. So, for maximum efficiency, the lower bound of b > should be either a or (500-a), whichever is greater. That is, use a as the > lower bound if a > 250, and (500-a) as the lower bound otherwise, to save yet > more iterations when a is between 250 and 333. > > Art > > > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Mark McDougall wrote: > > > Arthur Flexser wrote: > > > > > The ascending length requirement means that B must > > > take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. > > > > (a^2 + b^2)= c^2 > > (a^2 + b^2) = (a+b)^2 - 2ab = c^2 > > therefore, a+b > c > > a + b > (1000 - a - b) > > 2a + 2b > 1000 > > (a+b) > 500 > > ie, b > (500-a) > > > > and using Arthur's observation (nice work) > > > > FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 > > > > reduces the number of iterations to find the solution to 10,174 from the > > original 66,174 iterations - a massive 85% reduction! > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > > | | with less resistance!" > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 19:45:38 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:45:38 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes In-Reply-To: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> Message-ID: <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 06:24 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >You DID notice that it came with a harness for (3) 9V batteries, >right? As I said - I have NO idea on the condition of that unit. It >was in a box I got from Art before he moved, hence why I wouldn't >"sell" it to you. Wouldn't have been right... Tony I resoldered the broken battery harness and it works great. I do recall with my old MPROM board I owned years ago that if the 9v batteries were drained even just a little, it had trouble writing. And it didn't take long at all to suck the power out of the batteries. That was the part I hated the most, and not having a 25-27v unregulated power supply to feed into the board instead of the battery leads. I have several 12v regulated supply units, but I don't want to risk trashing the board by doing any experiments like that. MPROM boards are hard to come by. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From RJRTTY at aol.com Sat Nov 15 20:10:21 2008 From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:10:21 EST Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story Message-ID: In a message dated 11/15/2008 2:37:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, snhirsch at gmail.com writes: >The vertical banding is very slight and appears on every classic computer >I've run through a converter. Even my pricey Highway Model 100 (used for >Apple IIGS and Amiga) exhibits this. In general, VGA CRT displays look a >bit better than LCD units but since that defeats my goal I just live with >it. >Someday I'll fiddle with a low-pass filter for the video signals to see if >it can be cleaned up a bit more, but it's not really bothering me. Yes the banding appears because the bandwidth of a modern SVGA monitor is so much greater than the old monitors used to be. I have adapted my converter to the Amiga, Atari ST, IBM CGA, and the Apple IIGS and the Apple has by far the worst output for banding but it responds well to a simple LCR passive filter. Roy **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 20:15:18 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:15:18 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> At 06:45 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >At 06:24 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >>You DID notice that it came with a harness for (3) 9V batteries, >>right? As I said - I have NO idea on the condition of that unit. It >>was in a box I got from Art before he moved, hence why I wouldn't >>"sell" it to you. Wouldn't have been right... Tony > >I resoldered the broken battery harness and it works great. I do >recall with my old MPROM board I owned years ago that if the 9v >batteries were drained even just a little, it had trouble >writing. And it didn't take long at all to suck the power out of >the batteries. That was the part I hated the most, and not having a >25-27v unregulated power supply to feed into the board instead of >the battery leads. I have several 12v regulated supply units, but I >don't want to risk trashing the board by doing any experiments like >that. MPROM boards are hard to come by. Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high enough. I put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and now the unit is writing a 27128. :) This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many batteries just because they fell below something like 8.5v and didn't supply over 25v to the regulator. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From carlos.bragatto at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 20:23:24 2008 From: carlos.bragatto at gmail.com (Carlos Bragatto) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:23:24 -0200 Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16bae8870811151723k6cf1286bvefb46878b7418814@mail.gmail.com> Roy, are you still selling your converter? CH On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:10 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 11/15/2008 2:37:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > snhirsch at gmail.com writes: > > > > >The vertical banding is very slight and appears on every classic computer > >I've run through a converter. Even my pricey Highway Model 100 (used for > >Apple IIGS and Amiga) exhibits this. In general, VGA CRT displays look a > >bit better than LCD units but since that defeats my goal I just live with > >it. > > >Someday I'll fiddle with a low-pass filter for the video signals to see > if > >it can be cleaned up a bit more, but it's not really bothering me. > > > Yes the banding appears because the bandwidth of a modern SVGA > monitor is so much greater than the old monitors used to be. > > I have adapted my converter to the Amiga, Atari ST, IBM CGA, > and the Apple IIGS and the Apple has by far the worst output > for banding but it responds well to a simple LCR passive filter. > > Roy > > **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & > more!( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt > p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com Sat Nov 15 20:29:41 2008 From: da3m0n_slay3r at yahoo.com (Bill Barnes) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:29:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <796751.93341.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ok, as long as we got it cleared and straightened up :) Guess that is also what I get for replying before the corrections made my box. -Later! ?-WB-??? -- BABIC Computer Consulting. --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Arthur Flexser wrote: > From: Arthur Flexser > Subject: Re: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:35 PM > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Bill Barnes wrote: > ... > Mark meant c < a+b, as he says in a later message, which > follows from the fact > that the hypotenuse of a right triangle must be less than > the sum of the two > other sides (the triangle collapses into a straight line as > c approaches > equality with a+b as the angle between sides a and b > approaches 180 degrees). > Mark also proved algebraically in a later message that c > < a+b follows from > a^2+b^2=c^2. > > I wrote: > > > > I see no apparent reason why B must be in > the range 334 to 667, as > > > > John assumed. Why exclude, for example, the > abc combination 200, 300, > > > > 500, which properly adds to 1000, from > testing? > > > and Mark replied: > > > because (a+b) < c [should be a+b>c, > which the example also violates] > > Okay, bad example; make it 200, 320, 480 as a plausible > example that John > excludes from testing by assuming that b is at least 334. > They add to 1000; > a exceeds (500-a), as Mark > proved that it must. > > Art From brucewcalkins at charter.net Sat Nov 15 20:43:54 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:43:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]><20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> > Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high enough. I > put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and now the unit is > writing a 27128. :) > This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many batteries > just because they fell below something like 8.5v and didn't supply over > 25v to the regulator. > > -- > Roger Taylor So, what would happen if we put four 9v batteries in series? A starting point of 36 volts into the regulator should hold up a while longer. Bruce W. From jcewy at swbell.net Sat Nov 15 21:06:57 2008 From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:06:57 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes In-Reply-To: <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <491F8041.3050005@swbell.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > At 06:24 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >> You DID notice that it came with a harness for (3) 9V batteries, >> right? As I said - I have NO idea on the condition of that unit. It >> was in a box I got from Art before he moved, hence why I wouldn't >> "sell" it to you. Wouldn't have been right... Tony > > I resoldered the broken battery harness and it works great. I do > recall with my old MPROM board I owned years ago that if the 9v > batteries were drained even just a little, it had trouble writing. > And it didn't take long at all to suck the power out of the > batteries. That was the part I hated the most, and not having a > 25-27v unregulated power supply to feed into the board instead of the > battery leads. I have several 12v regulated supply units, but I don't > want to risk trashing the board by doing any experiments like that. > MPROM boards are hard to come by. > I believe I used the MPROM adapter successfully with a wall wart of appropriate specs. But it has been a couple decades since then. JCE From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 21:29:08 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:29:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491F5450.1080304@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Ah, an 8-15-17 Pythagorean triangle scaled up 25 times. So, a shortcut approach would have been to sift through small Pythagorean triangles looking for one whose perimeter went into 1000 evenly, and scale it up appropriately (40 x 25 = 1000). One formula for generating Pythagorean triangles is to use as sides 2XY, (X^2-Y^2), and (X^2+Y^2), where X and Y can be any two integers with X>Y. That gives you the 8-15-17 triangle when X=4 and Y=1, or the 200-375-425 one when X=20 and Y=5. Art On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, Mark McDougall wrote: > Arthur Flexser wrote: > > > (By the way, what ARE those values?) > > 200, 375 & 425 > > Regards, > > -- > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 21:47:34 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:47:34 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811152147.34529.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 15 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >At 06:45 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >>At 06:24 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >>>You DID notice that it came with a harness for (3) 9V batteries, >>>right? As I said - I have NO idea on the condition of that unit. It >>>was in a box I got from Art before he moved, hence why I wouldn't >>>"sell" it to you. Wouldn't have been right... Tony >> >>I resoldered the broken battery harness and it works great. I do >>recall with my old MPROM board I owned years ago that if the 9v >>batteries were drained even just a little, it had trouble >>writing. And it didn't take long at all to suck the power out of >>the batteries. That was the part I hated the most, and not having a >>25-27v unregulated power supply to feed into the board instead of >>the battery leads. I have several 12v regulated supply units, but I >>don't want to risk trashing the board by doing any experiments like >>that. MPROM boards are hard to come by. > >Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high >enough. I put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and now >the unit is writing a 27128. :) >This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many >batteries just because they fell below something like 8.5v and didn't >supply over 25v to the regulator. Which is one of the reasons that the only burner I ever built from scratch used an LM317 to switch the Vpp for the programming burn voltage. One trick that would only work with a Z-80, and that's what I was using then :-(, is that there is a difference between the read and write pulse timings from the Z-80. It was a case of, if memory access is true and the read pulse isn't then it is going to be a write even if the WE doesn't go true for another clock cycle. I used that logic to trigger a one shot that set the burn time, and when it fired it froze the Z-80 state so all the addresses and data were good, while it triggered the LM317 to go up to the needed burn voltage, in that case 25 or 17, 12 volt parts hadn't arrived then. The burn program did the write, then a read and if it didn't compare it wrote again, keeping tabs on how many write cycles it took to get a good read, then divided the writes by 2 as was recommended at the time, and did that many more writes before going on to the next address. The lm-317 can switch its output up and down in about a microsecond with very little overshoot, so it made an ideal switch for that, just short part of the setting r with a 7406 for the higher voltage. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. - Linus Torvalds on the gcc mailing list From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 21:49:00 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:49:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> Message-ID: <200811152149.00577.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Saturday 15 November 2008, Bruce W. Calkins wrote: >> Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high enough. I >> put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and now the unit is >> writing a 27128. :) >> This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many batteries >> just because they fell below something like 8.5v and didn't supply over >> 25v to the regulator. >> >> -- >> Roger Taylor > >So, what would happen if we put four 9v batteries in series? A starting >point of 36 volts into the regulator should hold up a while longer. > >Bruce W. Likely instant smoke Bruce, I don't think that board has a real tight regulator. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) George Washington was first in war, first in peace -- and the first to have his birthday juggled to make a long weekend. -- Ashley Cooper From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sat Nov 15 21:49:36 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:49:36 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> <491EC61A.4040701@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <491F8A40.2030200@iinet.net.au> John wrote: > At the risk of replying to a slightly older thread: > > Wouldn't this code actually run slower because os the precalc in line 20? > An extra variable (A2) gets created only to be used one time - seems to me > it would be fractionally faster if that step was eliminated and A*A was > computed, used and discarded after line 40... > 10 FOR A=2 TO 333 > 20 A2=A*A; C=500 > 30 FOR B=500-A TO (1000-A)/2 > 40 IF A2+B*B=C*C THEN 100 A2 is used for *every* iteration of the B loop... Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 22:00:44 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:00:44 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116004608.A464C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> Message-ID: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> At 07:43 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >>Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high >>enough. I put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and >>now the unit is writing a 27128. :) >>This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many >>batteries just because they fell below something like 8.5v and >>didn't supply over 25v to the regulator. >> >>-- >>Roger Taylor > > >So, what would happen if we put four 9v batteries in series? A >starting point of 36 volts into the regulator should hold up a while longer. > >Bruce W. I tried 4 9v batteries a few days ago and for some reason it wouldn't work. That is, the software kept reporting a no-go on the first write cycle. The EPROMs remained blank. Maybe it was just some of the batteries in series holding up the rest, as I didn't check the total voltage. If the regulator won't fry with 36+ volts, I'll do it. Most new 9v batteries are over 9v, as you probably already knew. So I would assume ~38v. That sounds like what a Lexmark printer power supply cord puts out, or is it 30? 30v from a wall adapter would be great. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 15 22:03:47 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:03:47 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <200811152149.00577.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <200811151924343.SM02968@[208.76.35.239]> <20081116011547.74BA320A13@qs281.pair.com> <5850EA38ED884DE0888DF36AAAE3A4D0@speedy> <200811152149.00577.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20081116030416.CA83F20A13@qs281.pair.com> > > >So, what would happen if we put four 9v batteries in series? A starting > >point of 36 volts into the regulator should hold up a while longer. > > > >Bruce W. > >Likely instant smoke Bruce, I don't think that board has a real tight >regulator. I'd risk putting 30v on it but no more, but I'm not sure of the mA I'd need. For now it's the batteries to be on the safe side. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 22:08:51 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:08:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 07:43 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: > >>Ok, the problem was that the source voltage was just not high > >>enough. I put 3 brand new alkaline batteries in the harness and > >>now the unit is writing a 27128. :) > >>This is an issue I dealt with many years ago, going through many > >>batteries just because they fell below something like 8.5v and > >>didn't supply over 25v to the regulator. > >> > >>-- > >>Roger Taylor > > > > > >So, what would happen if we put four 9v batteries in series? A > >starting point of 36 volts into the regulator should hold up a while longer. > > > >Bruce W. > > > I tried 4 9v batteries a few days ago and for some reason it wouldn't > work. That is, the software kept reporting a no-go on the first > write cycle. The EPROMs remained blank. Maybe it was just some of > the batteries in series holding up the rest, as I didn't check the > total voltage. > There remains the possibility that those 4-battery EPROMs you tried are now fried, and are not only blank but now unprogrammable. Art From dml_68 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 15 22:20:16 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:20:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] 1988 RBM Magazine Archive now up Message-ID: <657426.27708.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Rainbow Magazine 1988 Archive is now up. This is the complete year (12 issues) from 1988 Download Links can be found here: http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3536#3536 Enjoy my friends ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From flexser at fiu.edu Sat Nov 15 23:29:08 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:29:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure by now many of you have seen Project Euler"at > http://projecteuler.net/. > > If not, they have math problems to solve. One example is the 9th easiest: > Find the product of a,b,c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and a+b+b=1000. > > I used my Coco2 to solve this problem in 11 and a half minutes using the > high speed poke. At the risk of flooding the list with BASIC code, I hope > my short program here will spur comments and optimizations: > > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 > 30 C = 1000 -A -B > 40 IF C 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 > 60 NEXT B,A > 100 PRINT "A="A > 110 PRINT "B="B > 120 PRINT "C="C > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C > > For example, one optimization became clear after I had the answer. As a > hint, I could cut run time by about 40%... > So, what was the 40%-saving hint? Art From RJRTTY at aol.com Sun Nov 16 00:07:07 2008 From: RJRTTY at aol.com (RJRTTY at aol.com) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:07:07 EST Subject: [Coco] RGB --> VGA for CoCo: A success story Message-ID: In a message dated 11/15/2008 8:23:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, carlos.bragatto at gmail.com writes: >Roy, are you still selling your converter? >CH Yep. I am still furiously making and selling them. If you need one send me an email....there is a waiting list though. Roy **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) From johnguin at hotmail.com Sun Nov 16 00:44:31 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:44:31 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had the loops step down by 1: FOR A = 333 to 2 STEP -1 FOR B = 667 TO 334 STEP -1 That led to the total iterations until the answer was found dropping from 40736 to ~24K because the A loop only runs 133 times instead of 198. Other people on this list have greatly optimized my brute force approach which is great to see! I was a little delayed answering since I started thinking about what you wrote in an earlier: "One formula for generating Pythagorean triangles is to use as sides 2XY, (X^2-Y^2), and (X^2+Y^2), where X and Y can be any two integers with X>Y." That led to some relatively simple algebra: 2xy + (x^2 - y^2) + (x^2 + y^2) =1000 2xy +2x^2 = 1000 x^2 + y = 500 x(x+y) = 500 Since x>y, it's pretty easy to look through the factors of 500 and come up with x=20, y=5. So the answers are 2xy = 2*20*5=200 x^2 - y^2 = 400-25 = 375 x^2 + y^2 = 400+25 = 425 I felt really good about this until I read through the message board for this particular problem and the fourth poster had algebraically solved it as well - more than a year ago. Still, it's a lot of fun to roll out BASIC programs to solve these problems. John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Art Flexser Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:29 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure by now many of you have seen Project Euler"at > http://projecteuler.net/. > > If not, they have math problems to solve. One example is the 9th easiest: > Find the product of a,b,c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and a+b+b=1000. > > I used my Coco2 to solve this problem in 11 and a half minutes using the > high speed poke. At the risk of flooding the list with BASIC code, I hope > my short program here will spur comments and optimizations: > > 10 FOR A = 2 TO 333 > 20 FOR B = 334 TO 667 > 30 C = 1000 -A -B > 40 IF C 50 IF A*A + B*B = C*C THEN 100 > 60 NEXT B,A > 100 PRINT "A="A > 110 PRINT "B="B > 120 PRINT "C="C > 130 PRINT "A X B X C ="A*B*C > > For example, one optimization became clear after I had the answer. As a > hint, I could cut run time by about 40%... > So, what was the 40%-saving hint? Art -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From nutz4coco at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 01:34:44 2008 From: nutz4coco at gmail.com (Jim Cox) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:34:44 -0800 Subject: [Coco] CoCo-chat Message-ID: <889830d00811152234v3cfaef34t99bbe82a249dcd37@mail.gmail.com> I just logged into CoCo Chat and it seems kind of empty. Is there still much of a crowd there? -Jim Cox http://miba51.blogspot.com/ http://cloudymidnights.blogspot.com/ From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 09:38:19 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:38:19 -0600 Subject: [Coco] collection of CoCo links Message-ID: <20081116143852.17C7E20A14@qs281.pair.com> The CoCoNut Directory link page was just updated to contain the old TRS-80 CoCo Homepage front page link collection as well. I know there are dead links on the page so we'll have to wait that one out but at least you can explore for hours even with the good links. I realize that a lot of the old zeppelin.cc links do not keep you on coco3.com, so I'm fixing them now. Eventually a new page will launch for all the links on the page. http://coco3.com/modules.php?name=CoCoNutDirectory -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 10:29:19 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:29:19 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081116152951.E65C520A14@qs281.pair.com> At 09:08 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: > > I tried 4 9v batteries a few days ago and for some reason it wouldn't > > work. That is, the software kept reporting a no-go on the first > > write cycle. The EPROMs remained blank. Maybe it was just some of > > the batteries in series holding up the rest, as I didn't check the > > total voltage. > > > >There remains the possibility that those 4-battery EPROMs you tried are now >fried, and are not only blank but now unprogrammable. > >Art I'd be willing to bet that the little regulator IC would cook instead of the wrong voltage getting through it. The EPROM I was trying to program (and failed) is a 68X6048 which I thought was the same as a 2764 but turns out to be a 27512 (64k x 8k). It appeared to read well but not program. I've got 25 of the 27512's and unless I can pin-wire them to act like a 27256 or below, they're useless in my CoCo projects. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 10:39:45 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:39:45 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo-chat In-Reply-To: <889830d00811152234v3cfaef34t99bbe82a249dcd37@mail.gmail.co m> References: <889830d00811152234v3cfaef34t99bbe82a249dcd37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081116154019.E219A20A14@qs281.pair.com> At 12:34 AM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >I just logged into CoCo Chat and it seems kind of empty. Is there still >much of a crowd there? > >-Jim Cox The best way to draw a crowd is to enter the room and leave the page up. Check it periodically for someone else entering the room. I need to put an audio alert as part of the messages being posted or when someone enters the room. A good way to form a big chat 'party' is to make an announcement a week ahead of time in the forums and other places. One year during Xmas I think we had, what was it... 35 in the room at once, more or less? I forget the details but it was great. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From nutz4coco at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 11:35:41 2008 From: nutz4coco at gmail.com (Jim Cox) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:35:41 -0800 Subject: [Coco] CoCo-chat In-Reply-To: <20081116154019.E219A20A14@qs281.pair.com> References: <889830d00811152234v3cfaef34t99bbe82a249dcd37@mail.gmail.com> <20081116154019.E219A20A14@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <889830d00811160835v54117c57xc7f579eb61b93d3c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Roger, I remember on several occasions helping you test the site by having multiple systems up and running, each with at least one browser session logged in to the site. With the new policy of requiring user accounts to access the site I won't be able to do that any more. I understand that in the past you had some problems with people hacking the site, so I more than understand the reason to require IDs. Cheers, -Jim Cox http://miba51.blogspot.com/ http://cloudymidnights.blogspot.com/ On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 12:34 AM 11/16/2008, you wrote: > >> I just logged into CoCo Chat and it seems kind of empty. Is there still >> much of a crowd there? >> >> -Jim Cox >> > > > The best way to draw a crowd is to enter the room and leave the page up. > Check it periodically for someone else entering the room. I need to put > an audio alert as part of the messages being posted or when someone enters > the room. > > A good way to form a big chat 'party' is to make an announcement a week > ahead of time in the forums and other places. > > One year during Xmas I think we had, what was it... 35 in the room at once, > more or less? I forget the details but it was great. > > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From brucewcalkins at charter.net Sun Nov 16 11:37:41 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:37:41 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116152951.E65C520A14@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" > > I've got 25 of the 27512's and unless I can pin-wire them to act > like a 27256 or below, they're useless in my CoCo projects. > -- > Roger Taylor Kindly keep us posted as to how that project goes. I have a few 27512 pulls on hands myself. Bruce W. From mechacoco at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 12:15:31 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:15:31 -0700 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116152951.E65C520A14@qs281.pair.com> <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811160915j16aa492cq8444b12a0e526899@mail.gmail.com> On 11/16/08, Bruce W. Calkins wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Taylor" >> >> I've got 25 of the 27512's and unless I can pin-wire them to act >> like a 27256 or below, they're useless in my CoCo projects. >> -- >> Roger Taylor > > Kindly keep us posted as to how that project goes. > I have a few 27512 pulls on hands myself. > > Bruce W. > > -- I have a 27512 EPROM in my FD-502 disk controller. It works great so long as you program the code into the upper end of the device. This is due to the fact that the 502 connects +5V to the extra address pins used by the 27512. No wiring adapter is needed. Getting the MPROM to program a 27512 may be a more challenging (if not impossible) endeavor. Darren From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 12:15:52 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:15:52 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo-chat In-Reply-To: <889830d00811160835v54117c57xc7f579eb61b93d3c@mail.gmail.co m> References: <889830d00811152234v3cfaef34t99bbe82a249dcd37@mail.gmail.com> <20081116154019.E219A20A14@qs281.pair.com> <889830d00811160835v54117c57xc7f579eb61b93d3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081116171625.9006520A13@qs281.pair.com> At 10:35 AM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >Hi Roger, > >I remember on several occasions helping you test the site by having multiple >systems up and running, each with at least one browser session logged in to >the site. With the new policy of requiring user accounts to access the site >I won't be able to do that any more. >I understand that in the past you had some problems with people hacking the >site, so I more than understand the reason to require IDs. Surely during the period the system let people drop in and pick any handle, we had more chatters. But we had this poker-site guy who kept coming into the room and telling me to "could you please stop doing that??" everytime I booted him out for posting spam. Many times we had non-CoCo people dropping in thinking it was some other kind of chat, etc. Now I can block IP ranges, members, domains, etc. All things combined I think we've controlled the spam to a degree where 1 or 2 per year just doesn't bother me. I go in, delete it, kill the spammer's account, and make sure the permissions for posting are still strict. Oh yea, the member system won't keep somebody from having two accounts on the site and being in chat twice. There's no real reason to do that other than testing. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 12:19:47 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:19:47 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116152951.E65C520A14@qs281.pair.com> <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> Message-ID: <20081116172020.D5A2920A13@qs281.pair.com> At 10:37 AM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" >> >>I've got 25 of the 27512's and unless I can pin-wire them to act >>like a 27256 or below, they're useless in my CoCo projects. >>-- >>Roger Taylor I'm Googling now to see how to do this. The difference I see so far is: 27256 (32k) pin 1 is Vpp pin 28 is Vdd 27512 (64k) pin 1 is A15 Pin 28 is Vcc -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 12:22:09 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:22:09 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081116172242.49B4520A13@qs281.pair.com> > >There remains the possibility that those 4-battery EPROMs you tried are now >fried, and are not only blank but now unprogrammable. > >Art Art, I found the magic paragraph in the MPROM manual, that states: "If you don't want to use batteries, any unregulated DC adapter that can deliver 25 to 40 volts at 100 ma. will do." -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 12:52:34 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:52:34 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo Message-ID: <20081116175338.7E24920A16@qs281.pair.com> Using just a cassette cable and the M.E.S.S. emulator (probably VCC and Keil as well), I just confirmed a super easy way to get tape files from the PC to your real CoCo. Heck, most of you probably already tried it already, so ignore this message if it's ancient news to you. Plug the CoCo cassette cable into the CoCo, connect the black audio plug to your PC's *Speaker* Out jack. Turn the PC volume up maybe 90%, fiddle with the sound equilizer if you need to, type AUDIO ON from the CoCo emulator, type CLOAD or CLOADM first on the real CoCo, THEN on the emulator. Bam!- the tape program will load into the real CoCo and emulator simultaneously. From the real CoCo you can now save the file to real media, be it disk or tape. There are disk-to-tape tools you can use to do further work with the files but at least you got them to your real CoCo. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gene.heskett at verizon.net Sun Nov 16 13:02:29 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:02:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <20081116175338.7E24920A16@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081116175338.7E24920A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811161302.29217.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Sunday 16 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >Using just a cassette cable and the M.E.S.S. emulator (probably VCC >and Keil as well), I just confirmed a super easy way to get tape >files from the PC to your real CoCo. Heck, most of you probably >already tried it already, so ignore this message if it's ancient news to > you. > >Plug the CoCo cassette cable into the CoCo, connect the black audio >plug to your PC's *Speaker* Out jack. Turn the PC volume up maybe >90%, fiddle with the sound equilizer if you need to, type AUDIO ON >from the CoCo emulator, type CLOAD or CLOADM first on the real CoCo, >THEN on the emulator. > >Bam!- the tape program will load into the real CoCo and emulator >simultaneously. From the real CoCo you can now save the file to real >media, be it disk or tape. There are disk-to-tape tools you can use >to do further work with the files but at least you got them to your real > CoCo. Now that is neat, too bad I don't have the emulator. I *think* I could find a cassette cable if I dug deep enough. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) This login session: $13.99 From theother_bob at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 13:20:26 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:20:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo Message-ID: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nice Roger! Of course this could go both ways... I wonder if it could work reliably at double-speed. Could be a convenient alternative to DSKINI/RETRIEVE for quickie file transfers. Maybe even use it for other modes of communication, like an intercom system between remote cocos or for?data sharing sans network. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Taylor To: cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:52:34 AM Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo Using just a cassette cable and the M.E.S.S. emulator (probably VCC and Keil as well), I just confirmed a super easy way to get tape files from the PC to your real CoCo.? Heck, most of you probably already tried it already, so ignore this message if it's ancient news to you. Plug the CoCo cassette cable into the CoCo, connect the black audio plug to your PC's *Speaker* Out jack.? Turn the PC volume up maybe 90%, fiddle with the sound equilizer if you need to, type AUDIO ON from the CoCo emulator, type CLOAD or CLOADM first on the real CoCo, THEN on the emulator. Bam!- the tape program will load into the real CoCo and emulator simultaneously.? From the real CoCo you can now save the file to real media, be it disk or tape.? There are disk-to-tape tools you can use to do further work with the files but at least you got them to your real CoCo. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From neilsmorr at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 13:40:13 2008 From: neilsmorr at gmail.com (Neil Morrison) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:40:13 -0800 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Fw: Composite Video Mod on Coco 2 Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "chjmartin2" Neil, I built the circuit on your website for composite video, it does not work. Have you tried it on a coco-2? Is there something I need to do, I have seen a lot of references to pulling up the 12th pin and configuring the MC1372 to output composite. Anyway, I just cannot seem to find a reliable composite conversion for the CoCo2. Thanks, Chris From johnguin at hotmail.com Sun Nov 16 14:26:05 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:26:05 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? Thanks all, John From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 16 14:55:22 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:55:22 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49207AAA.7080707@aurigae.demon.co.uk> John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? Well there was cirtainly a Star Trek game for the Dragon, which will run on the CoCo, if it's re-tokenized. I think I have cas files of both somewhere. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 16 15:03:06 2008 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:03:06 +0000 Subject: [Coco] MPROM woes (cured) In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811160915j16aa492cq8444b12a0e526899@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081116030113.E2D2320A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081116152951.E65C520A14@qs281.pair.com> <8CB6C450D30F4CB980883AD427A7220F@speedy> <5d802cd0811160915j16aa492cq8444b12a0e526899@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49207C7A.2040308@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Darren A wrote: > I have a 27512 EPROM in my FD-502 disk controller. It works great so > long as you program the code into the upper end of the device. This is > due to the fact that the 502 connects +5V to the extra address pins > used by the 27512. No wiring adapter is needed. Indeed, A similar trick I uded for developing CoCo/Dragon software (before I started to use flashrom anyway :)) was to make an adapter that had a 3 pin jumper on A14 and A15, with the middle pin connected to the rom addressl line, and either end connected to +5V and GND respectivly. That way I could program the first version of my code to the bottom 16K, and select the jumpers both for ground, then if that didn't work, program the next version into the next 16K block, change the jumpers as needed and test again. That meant I could do 4 test cycles per erasure of the EPROM. Also this means that you could say program 4 different blocks of code into each 16K block of rom, and then select the one you want with the jumpers, alternate versions of DOS spring to mind here. > Getting the MPROM to program a 27512 may be a more challenging (if not > impossible) endeavor. Indeed, this would probably depend on how simular the programming algorithims are, also I suppose that the 27512, uses the pins smaller EPROMS use for programming as Address lines, it may be doable, but as you say challenging. Cheers, Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From os9dude at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 15:53:16 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:53:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5631e580811161253i75104171m5419d61b5f85ea73@mail.gmail.com> There were quite a bit of Star Trek themed games and adventures written for the CoCo since the VDG only days (CoCo 1 & 2), so the screen size was barely a hurdle to worry about. The games most of them were not titled "Star Trek' per se, maybe following the usual way of re-branding the game/program title to avoid any possible legal issues. I know I have a couple of those games somewhere along my library - it id very likely to find such games on the public domain software respositories (like RTSI's). -=[ Rogelio ]=- On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Thanks all, > John From badfrog at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 16:01:16 2008 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:01:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <5631e580811161253i75104171m5419d61b5f85ea73@mail.gmail.com> References: <5631e580811161253i75104171m5419d61b5f85ea73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9efa17da0811161301j277f1e43jcecfeade8077ba28@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty sure I remember playing a BBS version on the local COBBS back in the day. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Rogelio Perea wrote: > There were quite a bit of Star Trek themed games and adventures written for > the CoCo since the VDG only days (CoCo 1 & 2), so the screen size was barely > a hurdle to worry about. > > The games most of them were not titled "Star Trek' per se, maybe following > the usual way of re-branding the game/program title to avoid any possible > legal issues. I know I have a couple of those games somewhere along my > library - it id very likely to find such games on the public domain software > respositories (like RTSI's). > > > -=[ Rogelio ]=- > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, John wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: >> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx >> >> I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but >> does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? >> >> Thanks all, >> John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 17:16:16 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:16:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <200811161302.29217.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <20081116175338.7E24920A16@qs281.pair.com> <200811161302.29217.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20081116221650.C463220A13@qs281.pair.com> At 12:02 PM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >Now that is neat, too bad I don't have the emulator. I *think* I >could find a >cassette cable if I dug deep enough. Also, if you use casout.exe to turn a .cas file into a .wav, when using WinAmp, the WimAmp volume needed to be less than 50% on my system, and Windows is at about 90%. WinAmp equilizer is flat. It gave a crisp tape sound that my real CoCo loaded fine. I just tried this with bedlam.cas and am playing it on the 2 now. I suppose that the CoCo Line Out from the cassette cable can be fed into the PC's sound card Line In to capture tape saves, but as of now I can't get a real CoCo, VCC, or M.E.S.S. to give me any sound when I type AUDIO ON:CSAVEM "TEST",1024,1535,1024. I was hoping to hear the audio on the emulators but on the real CoCo I assume that a tape deck has to be connected and in record mode for the sound to come back into the CoCo to hear it live? I forget. I'll probably add a mode in the Rainbow IDE that can output built programs as live tape audio so we can type CLOAD(M) on the real CoCo and get it loaded and tested pretty quick. This would only work well with short programs since it takes a while to load big ones, but the CoCo is already equipped with this "protocol" for importing from anything that can output the cassette format. The good thing is once you get the PC's audio set right, there won't be any dreaded tape drop-outs or other problems typically experienced with real tape drives. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From flexser at fiu.edu Sun Nov 16 18:13:04 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:13:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In his response to my question of what was his method for saving 40%, On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, John wrote: > I had the loops step down by 1: > FOR A = 333 to 2 STEP -1 > FOR B = 667 TO 334 STEP -1 > > That led to the total iterations until the answer was found dropping from > 40736 to ~24K because the A loop only runs 133 times instead of 198. Other > people on this list have greatly optimized my brute force approach which is > great to see! > One can certain find the answer faster by choosing a starting place for the search that is close to it. That's why I mentioned to Mark that I thought a better comparison than number of iterations to find the answer would be number of iterations required to do an exhaustive search of the solution space and verify that there is only one answer. > I was a little delayed answering since I started thinking about what you > wrote in an earlier: > > "One formula for generating Pythagorean triangles is to use as sides 2XY, > (X^2-Y^2), and (X^2+Y^2), where X and Y can be any two integers with X>Y." > > That led to some relatively simple algebra: > 2xy + (x^2 - y^2) + (x^2 + y^2) =1000 > 2xy +2x^2 = 1000 > x^2 + y = 500 > x(x+y) = 500 > > Since x>y, it's pretty easy to look through the factors of 500 and come up > with x=20, y=5. > > So the answers are > 2xy = 2*20*5=200 > x^2 - y^2 = 400-25 = 375 > x^2 + y^2 = 400+25 = 425 > Yes, that certainly beats the brute force method. Though I'm not certain that that formula for Pythagorean triangles generates all of them, rather than only some. So, it may be that some similar problems would not yield to that approach. Art From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 18:14:48 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:14:48 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 12:20 PM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >Nice Roger! Of course this could go both ways... I wonder if it >could work reliably at double-speed. Could be a convenient >alternative to DSKINI/RETRIEVE for quickie file transfers. Maybe >even use it for other modes of communication, like an intercom >system between remote cocos or for data sharing sans network. Yes, it would work at double-speed if the emulators could only play the virtual tape file at double speed. If casout.exe could output double-speed .wav files, that would work as well. If there's some kind of filter that could take a .wav file and delete every other audio sample, that might work as well. The reason I'm dabbling in the cassette port stuff is that 1) every CoCo has a cassette port, and 2) almost every PC has a Speaker Out jack. If the CoCo user has a cassette cable, and my Rainbow IDE was made to output your assembled/compiled programs as CoCo tape sound, no other hardware would be needed to "get a file over to the CoCo" which is the most commonly asked problem I see on the web. The answer I could give them is: The Rainbow IDE and a cassette cable will do it. Rainbow wouldn't even have to create or assemble the file to be sent to the CoCo. You could "add" an existing file such as HELLO.BAS to the project then choose COPY for the Builder (this says no assembler or compiler is used but to just clone the source file into the object file), give the Output Object a name like "TEST.BAS" then tag the Output Type as "Cassette Upload" then an external tool I wrote would be called during the build which would do the job of playing the virtual tape audio of the source file which was HELLO.BAS. The whole process is about 5 or 6 clicks of the mouse and a few filenames to type. The ONLY thing missing from my IDE right now to do this is the external utility to convert a PC file into CoCo cassette audio (and play it). You could even add the tool as a Builder and bypass some of the steps and just Add the file you want to send to the CoCo, choose "CoCo Cassette Uploader" as the Builder, click GO, and that's it. Well, you'd have to first type CLOAD on the real CoCo. The same seamless process you experience when you press the GO button in the IDE would happen in a live CoCo tape build. All that is needed?.... a CoCo cassette cable. Even if you had to do a hack and run the wires into the pin holes of the tape jack, that's better than doing without a way to get files to your CoCo. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From theother_bob at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 21:27:41 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:27:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo Message-ID: <337130.50019.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> see replies inline... ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Taylor To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:16:16 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo At 12:02 PM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >Now that is neat, too bad I don't have the emulator.? I *think* I >could find a >cassette cable if I dug deep enough. Also, if you use casout.exe to turn a .cas file into a .wav, when using WinAmp, the WimAmp volume needed to be less than 50% on my system, and Windows is at about 90%.? WinAmp equilizer is flat.? It gave a crisp tape sound that my real CoCo loaded fine.? I just tried this with bedlam.cas and am playing it on the 2 now. I suppose that the CoCo Line Out from the cassette cable can be fed into the PC's sound card Line In to capture tape saves, but as of now I can't get a real CoCo, VCC, or M.E.S.S. to give me any sound when I type AUDIO ON:CSAVEM "TEST",1024,1535,1024.? I was hoping to hear the audio on the emulators but on the real CoCo I assume that a tape deck has to be connected and in record mode for the sound to come back into the CoCo to hear it live?? I forget. ?? You may need to enable the Line-In on your pc.With your Windows mixer console open, select Options->Properties and select the Recording radio-button. Make sure the Line-In control is checked and hit OK. Then select the checkbox below Line-In in the Mixer console (now says Recording Control instead of Volume Control). Now?in Winamp (or?emulated coco) you should get sound from the?real CoCo's line out (or a real cassette player). I believe on the VoVo if you type AUDIOON and CSAVE(M) you will hear the audio. I'll probably add a mode in the Rainbow IDE that can output built programs as live tape audio so we can type CLOAD(M) on the real CoCo and get it loaded and tested pretty quick.? This would only work well with short programs since it takes a while to load big ones, ?? It ain't that slow... SAVE"22KPROG",A at high speed would take ~30 seconds. Transferring many files might get tedious and slow, but for occasional use this is a great alternative to disk transfers. A poor-man's drivewire? Suitable for most common usage I think. but the CoCo is already equipped with this "protocol" for importing from anything that can output the cassette format.? The good thing is once you get the PC's audio set right, there won't be any dreaded tape drop-outs or other problems typically experienced with real tape drives. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From theother_bob at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 21:37:00 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:37:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? Message-ID: <604358.98648.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My favorite was Color Space Trek by Jake Commander. I typed it in from my first CoCo mag ever, The Color Computer Magazine, early 83 I think. I modified it to use the S/SC a bit ("Red Alert", things like that) and also changed some of the controls to work better with my numeric keypad. Probably one of my favorite CoCo games of them all, and I've considered doing a CC3 mod/version. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: John To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:26:05 PM Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? Hello all, I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? Thanks all, John -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 21:45:57 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:45:57 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <337130.50019.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <337130.50019.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081117024632.0043420A13@qs281.pair.com> At 08:27 PM 11/16/2008, you wrote: > It ain't that slow... SAVE"22KPROG",A at high speed would take > ~30 seconds. Transferring many files might get tedious and slow, > but for occasional use this is a great alternative to disk > transfers. A poor-man's drivewire? Suitable for most common usage I think. Sure, a poor man's method of getting simple files into the CoCo from the PC, and also a very useful feature for Rainbow IDE 2.0. I started on cocotape.exe tonight which will be a command that Rainbow can call on during a build. cocotape will have switches for setting the various cassette format parameters required to store binary BASIC, ASCII BASIC, data, etc. The IDE has these settings in the listboxes in the left panel. No matter how you build your file, whether assembling it from source code, importing the original file, or typing it out (as in BASIC or a text file), the IDE will turn the output file/object into a WAVE audio file and play it using the Windows API. As long as the CoCo cassette cable is plugged into the PC's Speaker Out jack and you first typed CLOAD or CLOADM on the real CoCo, things should go smoothly. Oops, i forgot the ability type type OPEN "I", 1, "FILE.DAT". That would work, too. The CoCo would think a real tape deck is connected. Rainbow will produce the fake tape content live. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 16 22:04:55 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:04:55 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> Btw, I also plan to put an option in the menu of the MPROM driver disk for loading the ROM image from tape. The disk load option won't be removed. The catch is that the software can't peek at the ROM file to know if it's a LOADM type or raw ROM data, so there will be two modes: Load raw ROM file from tape, and Load binary file from tape. The original MPROM software wants a LOADM'able ROM image, which sucks. I've since added a Load raw ROM data from disk in the menu. It takes a while to load while the LOADM option is almost instant. From Rainbow, if you built a ROM image such as a Disk Operating System, or game, you have to put ORG $C000 at the top and choose "CoCo LOADM" for the object type. To build a raw ROM image, you have to choose "8k ROM" for the object type. ORG $C000 can remain but the file won't be LOADM'able, ofcourse. Either way, an option in the new MPROM software will let you load raw or LOADM fromt tape or disk. This is where the live tape audio in the IDE comes into play... are you following now? In about 5 minutes or less you could click GO to build your project, first choosing "Load raw ROM from tape" on the real CoCo, wait a minute, hit '2-Program EPROM'. From source code to ready EPROM in less than 5 minutes, thanks to the "forgotten CoCo cassette cable". For those who aren't following this whole procedure I'm describing, I'm making it so terribly simple that it's almost silly. Ofcourse you'd have to be familiar with the Rainbow IDE for the PC, and the MPROM system for the CoCo. Having those two systems plus a cassette cable is all you'd need to produce EPROM software in lightning speed. This is a start. Eventually I'd like to put support in the IDE for some popular Windows-based EPROM burners, but until I purchase and test, don't hold your breath on that just yet. MPROM comes first. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From sklammer at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 23:38:48 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:38:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> I believe that the addition of cassette saving will be of great benefit to the Rainbow IDE. May I request that you make your COCOTAPE.EXE available to those of us who have not yet acquired the IDE. (Was there a similar utility "CAS2WAV.EXE"?) Additionally, why not add the ability to recognize and utilize the Coco's cassette relay? This could be done with any soundcard that has a DB15 joystick port or via a cheap USB joypad - adding a jack wired to a button's contacts (or keyboard?)... sk 2008/11/16 Roger Taylor > Btw, I also plan to put an option in the menu of the MPROM driver disk for > loading the ROM image from tape. The disk load option won't be removed. > > The catch is that the software can't peek at the ROM file to know if it's a > LOADM type or raw ROM data, so there will be two modes: Load raw ROM file > from tape, and Load binary file from tape. > > The original MPROM software wants a LOADM'able ROM image, which sucks. > I've since added a Load raw ROM data from disk in the menu. It takes a > while to load while the LOADM option is almost instant. From Rainbow, if > you built a ROM image such as a Disk Operating System, or game, you have to > put ORG $C000 at the top and choose "CoCo LOADM" for the object type. To > build a raw ROM image, you have to choose "8k ROM" for the object type. ORG > $C000 can remain but the file won't be LOADM'able, ofcourse. Either way, an > option in the new MPROM software will let you load raw or LOADM fromt tape > or disk. > > This is where the live tape audio in the IDE comes into play... are you > following now? In about 5 minutes or less you could click GO to build your > project, first choosing "Load raw ROM from tape" on the real CoCo, wait a > minute, hit '2-Program EPROM'. From source code to ready EPROM in less than > 5 minutes, thanks to the "forgotten CoCo cassette cable". > > For those who aren't following this whole procedure I'm describing, I'm > making it so terribly simple that it's almost silly. Ofcourse you'd have to > be familiar with the Rainbow IDE for the PC, and the MPROM system for the > CoCo. Having those two systems plus a cassette cable is all you'd need to > produce EPROM software in lightning speed. > > This is a start. Eventually I'd like to put support in the IDE for some > popular Windows-based EPROM burners, but until I purchase and test, don't > hold your breath on that just yet. MPROM comes first. > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sklammer at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 23:42:05 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:42:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <604358.98648.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <604358.98648.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811162042l6f269b9w4d11c7440474dfcd@mail.gmail.com> I was trying to remember which mag it was in... this version was rather good, IMHO. Also, the Star Trek arcade game was simulated by Space Wrek, which also used the S/SC cartridge :) sk 2008/11/16 theother_bob > My favorite was Color Space Trek by Jake Commander. I typed it in from my > first CoCo mag ever, The Color Computer Magazine, early 83 I think. I > modified it to use the S/SC a bit ("Red Alert", things like that) and also > changed some of the controls to work better with my numeric keypad. > > Probably one of my favorite CoCo games of them all, and I've considered > doing a CC3 mod/version. > > Bob > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:26:05 PM > Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? > > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Thanks all, > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Nov 17 06:05:25 2008 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:05:25 +1100 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49214FF5.4070308@iinet.net.au> Art Flexser wrote: > Yes, that certainly beats the brute force method. Though I'm not certain that > that formula for Pythagorean triangles generates all of them, rather than only > some. So, it may be that some similar problems would not yield to that > approach. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From linville at tuxdriver.com Mon Nov 17 09:22:28 2008 From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:22:28 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? Wikipedia says it was... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(text_game) I have no idea where to get the code. John -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. From ghfame at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 09:34:03 2008 From: ghfame at gmail.com (GH Family Enterprises) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:34:03 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <5eebd8e50811170634g2ec806c4o27d5bcfa23946e78@mail.gmail.com> I actually played it. It was ok. More like the old teletype version if you ask me.. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:22 AM, John W. Linville wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Wikipedia says it was... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(text_game) > > I have no idea where to get the code. > > John > -- > John W. Linville Linux should be at the core > linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From os9dude at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 10:22:07 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:22:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> For one of the many versions of this game - and one ported for the CoCo 3 at that, point your browser or your FTP client to: ftp://www.rtsi.com/RSDOS/GAMES/ Look for a file named: STAR.BAS The ASCII code for that program is almost 22k in size, I have played this and it has all the elements usually sought after in any Star Trek themed game. -=[ Rogelio ]=- On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:22 AM, John W. Linville wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: >> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx >> >> I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but >> does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Wikipedia says it was... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(text_game) > > I have no idea where to get the code. From os9dude at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 10:28:50 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:28:50 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> Oops... forgot to add another... also look for two files in the same directory: C-TREK.TXT C-TREK.BAS The text file has some reference information on the game. The BAS file is a tokenized Basic file so it won't open on an ASCII viewer. Game intended for the CoCo 1 & 2, it will probably run in the CoCo 3. This one I have not tried... yet. -=[ Rogelio ]=- On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Rogelio Perea wrote: > For one of the many versions of this game - and one ported for the CoCo 3 > at that, point your browser or your FTP client to: > > ftp://www.rtsi.com/RSDOS/GAMES/ > > Look for a file named: STAR.BAS > > The ASCII code for that program is almost 22k in size, I have played this > and it has all the elements usually sought after in any Star Trek themed > game. From os9dude at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 10:47:38 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:47:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Star Trek game for OS9 Message-ID: <5631e580811170747o47383deboffe3ea39eb2feb23@mail.gmail.com> Adding another 'find' for source code/program for the Star Trek games that has caused some stir, on the directory: ftp://www.rtsi.com/OS9/OS9_6X09/GAMES/ There is also a StarTrek_2_1.lzh file that has both the Basic09 code and what I assume to be the packed version of it. Can't check if the later is so from where I am right now. It's worth a look! -=[ Rogelio ]=- From curtisboyle at sasktel.net Mon Nov 17 13:02:32 2008 From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:02:32 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:22:28 -0600, John W. Linville wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: >> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx >> >> I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, >> but >> does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Wikipedia says it was... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(text_game) > > I have no idea where to get the code. > > John There was also an officially licensed graphics version from Lance Micklus (see http://nitros9.lcurtisboyle.com/startrek3.html). It was one for the first 32K required games out. It's still my personal favourite. -- L. Curtis Boyle From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Nov 17 14:37:44 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:37:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > I have no idea where to get the code. > > John I typed in a couple of BASIC Star Trek styled games way back when. The first one was one of the few games that I played past the debugging stage. It was probably from "The Color Computer Magazine." If IRCC the names were Galaxy 1 and 2. Bruce W. From Johnguin at hotmail.com Mon Nov 17 15:18:39 2008 From: Johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:18:39 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: This rings a bell - did "Jake Commander" have something to do with this game? Did he have an article in Hot Coco/80-Micro/CCM with this game ported? John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:38 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, > but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > I have no idea where to get the code. > > John I typed in a couple of BASIC Star Trek styled games way back when. The first one was one of the few games that I played past the debugging stage. It was probably from "The Color Computer Magazine." If IRCC the names were Galaxy 1 and 2. Bruce W. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Nov 17 16:18:43 2008 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:18:43 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <4BC15062DA5E434A9091CEAB0679E0D3@speedy> Yes, Jake Commander rings a bell. I almost put the name in the last post, but CRS is messing with my mind and I have to save my good brain cells for school. ;) Bruce W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Guin" > This rings a bell - did "Jake Commander" have something to do with this > game? Did he have an article in Hot Coco/80-Micro/CCM with this game > ported? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: >> >> I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, >> but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? >> >> I have no idea where to get the code. >> >> John > > > > > I typed in a couple of BASIC Star Trek styled games way back when. > > The first one was one of the few games that I played past the debugging > stage. > > It was probably from "The Color Computer Magazine." > > > > If IRCC the names were Galaxy 1 and 2. > > > > Bruce W. From flexser at fiu.edu Mon Nov 17 16:56:18 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:56:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <49214FF5.4070308@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Thanks, interesting site. So, the formula generates all Pythagorean triplets that are primitive ones (i.e., not a scaled-up version of a smaller Pythagorean triangle). Art On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Mark McDougall wrote: > Art Flexser wrote: > > > Yes, that certainly beats the brute force method. Though I'm not certain that > > that formula for Pythagorean triangles generates all of them, rather than only > > some. So, it may be that some similar problems would not yield to that > > approach. > > > > Regards, > > -- > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From spam_proof at verizon.net Mon Nov 17 17:29:16 2008 From: spam_proof at verizon.net (Aaron Banerjee) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:29:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many moons ago, I ported a version of a Star Trek clone from Model I to Coco. I've probably got it somewhere -- I'll try to find it. - Aaron On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:26 PM, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game: > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/game/startrek_1971_text.aspx > > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to > port, but > does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not? > > Thanks all, > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 19:44:48 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:44:48 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format Message-ID: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> Could the CoCo have had a more reliable tape format? Read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard I think the CoCo could have had a more reliable format (perhaps) if a 1500hz/3000/hz system was used, or maybe even 2400hz/4800hz, either format, but outputting 2 cycles of the faster wave. The standard CoCo format outputs 1 cycle of both waves, causing a wobbly format that's bot easy to get out of sync, and easy to misread the faster cycle on cheap media. If 2 cycles were used you'd get a more reliable load, I think. The time length for a 1-bit would be the same for a 0-bit. This could give a faster format even before the 2mhz POKE. I think a 4000 baud format isn't impossible. Back in the BBS days I experimented with using a VCR's audio line to record 2mhz cassette saves, and it worked. What I did was save VDG screens in a series using CSAVEM and then the loader read them back from the VCR tape pretty fast. This was mainly just to see how fast the loads were and if there were no errors, etc. The regular audio tape decks couldn't handle the 2mhz saves/loads for some reason. I don't know if it's the save or the load that goes wrong, but it's not the CoCo itself. Again, I confirmed this using digital devices such as an MD Walkman and a recent Audio Voice Recorder ($39 at Wal-Mart). That thing records through Line In, saves as MP3 and has a USB cable for your PC. Using that little device you could move CoCo cassettes to the PC, I'm sure. Never tried. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 20:24:07 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:24:07 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com > References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> At 10:38 PM 11/16/2008, you wrote: >I believe that the addition of cassette saving will be of great benefit to >the Rainbow IDE. May I request that you make your COCOTAPE.EXE available to >those of us who have not yet acquired the IDE. (Was there a similar utility >"CAS2WAV.EXE"?) I'm mot sure about cas2wav.exe. casout.exe won't output live sound on my systems, and requires a .cas file for input. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From Johnguin at hotmail.com Mon Nov 17 22:02:18 2008 From: Johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:02:18 -0800 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: Hi Roger, For some reason, I thought the Coco did have 1500 Hz cassette system. I seem to remember it being exactly 5 times faster than the Commodore. In any event, what was the speed of the Coco cassette? John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Roger Taylor Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:45 PM To: cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: [Coco] tape format Could the CoCo have had a more reliable tape format? Read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard I think the CoCo could have had a more reliable format (perhaps) if a 1500hz/3000/hz system was used, or maybe even 2400hz/4800hz, either format, but outputting 2 cycles of the faster wave. The standard CoCo format outputs 1 cycle of both waves, causing a wobbly format that's bot easy to get out of sync, and easy to misread the faster cycle on cheap media. If 2 cycles were used you'd get a more reliable load, I think. The time length for a 1-bit would be the same for a 0-bit. This could give a faster format even before the 2mhz POKE. I think a 4000 baud format isn't impossible. Back in the BBS days I experimented with using a VCR's audio line to record 2mhz cassette saves, and it worked. What I did was save VDG screens in a series using CSAVEM and then the loader read them back from the VCR tape pretty fast. This was mainly just to see how fast the loads were and if there were no errors, etc. The regular audio tape decks couldn't handle the 2mhz saves/loads for some reason. I don't know if it's the save or the load that goes wrong, but it's not the CoCo itself. Again, I confirmed this using digital devices such as an MD Walkman and a recent Audio Voice Recorder ($39 at Wal-Mart). That thing records through Line In, saves as MP3 and has a USB cable for your PC. Using that little device you could move CoCo cassettes to the PC, I'm sure. Never tried. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From spam_proof at verizon.net Mon Nov 17 22:05:56 2008 From: spam_proof at verizon.net (Aaron Banerjee) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:05:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <8F1AB19A-43C8-4D94-9179-2E873A01BDC1@verizon.net> I seem to remember the coco averaging to about 1500 baud for most programs. It has 1 cycle of 1200 hz for a "0" and one cycle 2400 for a "1"... The speed would depend on what was being transmitted. - Aaron On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:02 PM, John Guin wrote: > Hi Roger, > > For some reason, I thought the Coco did have 1500 Hz cassette > system. I > seem to remember it being exactly 5 times faster than the Commodore. > > In any event, what was the speed of the Coco cassette? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > ] On > Behalf Of Roger Taylor > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:45 PM > To: cocolist for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: [Coco] tape format > > Could the CoCo have had a more reliable tape format? > > Read this page: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard > > I think the CoCo could have had a more reliable format (perhaps) if a > 1500hz/3000/hz system was used, or maybe even 2400hz/4800hz, either > format, > but outputting 2 cycles of the faster wave. The standard CoCo format > outputs 1 cycle of both waves, causing a wobbly format that's bot > easy to > get out of sync, and easy to misread the faster cycle on cheap media. > > If 2 cycles were used you'd get a more reliable load, I think. The > time length for a 1-bit would be the same for a 0-bit. This could > give a > faster format even before the 2mhz POKE. I think a 4000 baud format > isn't > impossible. > > Back in the BBS days I experimented with using a VCR's audio line to > record > 2mhz cassette saves, and it worked. What I did was save VDG screens > in a > series using CSAVEM and then the loader read them back from the VCR > tape > pretty fast. This was mainly just to see how fast the loads were > and if > there were no errors, etc. > > The regular audio tape decks couldn't handle the 2mhz saves/loads > for some > reason. I don't know if it's the save or the load that goes wrong, > but it's > not the CoCo itself. Again, I confirmed this using digital devices > such as > an MD Walkman and a recent Audio Voice Recorder ($39 at Wal-Mart). > That > thing records through Line In, saves as MP3 and has a USB cable for > your PC. > Using that little device you could move CoCo cassettes to the PC, > I'm sure. > Never tried. > > > > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 22:06:12 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:06:12 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape.exe project In-Reply-To: <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081118030654.3D84A20A14@qs281.pair.com> Ok, some progress as of 11/17. cocotape.exe sourcefile -o=test.wav A test WAVE file is being created full of "silence" samples ($80). The file is loading in WinAmp okay. No issues. A clicking sound WAVE file was also created and loads in WinAmp, makes the pop sound okay, no issues. 8-bit, mono, 11025 hz, same as the casout.exe format which seems to create quality tape WAVE files. Now, the raw sample data inside of a 'casout.exe'-generated WAVE files doesn't look at first like sine wave samples I'd expect. The silence portions look as expected, filled with $80's, but I'm wondering why the other samples aren't consistent. For example, a very small portion of the very beginning of bedlam.wav (created by casout.exe) is as follows. This is a hex dump, 2 characters per 8-bit sample. You would think that a digitally-generated stream of 1200hz and 2400hz sine waves would consist of the same bytes sequences for a 1200hz wave, and a 2400hz wave. This doesn't appear to be the case with what's created from a .cas file into a .wav file using casout.exe. The samples ARE 8-bit raw samples, unsigned. That is, $80 represents 0 volts already. (scratching head) A5EE8E1149B2EDF9CA7D31051351BCEC 671060C3F5F2BE6922041A64D7D74D10 7ECFFAEAAB5A17042976ECBB311E97DE FAE199470F073894EEA51639A7E8FAD2 8938070F45AEEE7E1053BAF0F7C5742A 041659C7E758106DC7F9EEB6651B0421 69E3CB41138BD6FAE7A25214053083EE B0252A9CE5FADB953E0C0A3CA1EE9412 45AFECF9CC803305124EB8ED6D105CC2 F4F3C16B24041962D3DB4F107ACDFAEB AD5D18042772EBBF351A95DCFAE49B49 10063690EEA81935A4E7FAD58C3A080D 43ABEE831050B8EFF8C6772C041656C3 E95C1069C6F7F0B9661D041F67DFCF45 1287D4FAE8A55515042E7FEEB329269A E3FADD96410D093A9DEE9A1341ACEAFA CE833505114BB4EE721058C0F3F4C26E 2604185FCFDF521076CBF9ECB0601804 256DE9C3391694DAFAE59D4C1105348C EEAB1D -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 22:17:07 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:17:07 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> At 09:02 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >Hi Roger, > >For some reason, I thought the Coco did have 1500 Hz cassette system. I >seem to remember it being exactly 5 times faster than the Commodore. > >In any event, what was the speed of the Coco cassette? > >John They claim an average of "1500 baud" because of the random assortment of 1200 hz and 2400 hz sine waves. The 2400 hz wave is only output once on a CoCo. Some old vintie systems output 2 of the 2400 hz waves so the duration is the same as the 1200 hz wave. To me this would probably give better reliability with cheap tapes depending on the formula, averaging, and testing used in the load-back code. The problem has always been the drag on the tape causing the record and play rates to both vary slightly over time, like if you held your finger on one of the rotors ever so slightly similar to slowing down an LP record platform. This is why data stored in blocks loads back more reliably. The loader gets a chance to get back in sync more often. I just think that with our modern way of thinking and time-tested experiments over the ages, that a much faster and reliable tape audio format could be created that would blow the lid off the old format, even using cheapo tapes. I *might* save all that for a rainy day after cocotape.exe is done, but I doubt it. Btw, cocotape will have a ~1mhz and ~2mhz save option so you can type POKE 65495/7,0 on the CoCo and load twice as fast from the PC since it's a perfectly steady audio stream with no tape drag or drop factor. The default will be the ~1mhz speed, ofcourse. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 23:23:48 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:23:48 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape.exe project In-Reply-To: <20081118030654.3D84A20A14@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118030654.3D84A20A14@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081118042430.B2BB720A13@qs281.pair.com> Zooming in on the bedlam.wav file in Audacity (open source audio editor), you can clearly see that the sampling rate is lower than you'd expect but just enough to get by. The 1200hz and 2400hz sine waves appear to be first generated in the software but then run through a 11025hz filter, or that 11025hz won't allow for a perfect series of 1200/2400 sine waves using the same "sample data". -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 17 23:34:44 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:34:44 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape.exe project In-Reply-To: <20081118042430.B2BB720A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118030654.3D84A20A14@qs281.pair.com> <20081118042430.B2BB720A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081118043526.CBB4E20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 10:23 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >Zooming in on the bedlam.wav file in Audacity (open source audio >editor), you can clearly see that the sampling rate is lower than >you'd expect but just enough to get by. The 1200hz and 2400hz sine >waves appear to be first generated in the software but then run >through a 11025hz filter, or that 11025hz won't allow for a perfect >series of 1200/2400 sine waves using the same "sample data". >-- It appears the average samples per 1200hz sine wave is 9, average per 2400hz wave is 4. You can even see this in the zoomed waveform, with lines drawn between distant samples. This sampling rate is obviousy lower than what the CoCo outputs. 11025 / 1200 = 9.1875 11025 / 2400 = 4.59375 You would think Vavasour would have made the sampling rate something that would have simplified outputting the sine wave samples. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From jamesjones01 at mchsi.com Tue Nov 18 00:44:29 2008 From: jamesjones01 at mchsi.com (James Jones) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:44:29 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Project Euler and the Coco In-Reply-To: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> References: <491EBFE6.9090201@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4922563D.3050202@mchsi.com> Mark McDougall wrote: > Arthur Flexser wrote: > >> The ascending length requirement means that B must >> take up no more than half of the remaining board, or (1000-A)/2. > > (a^2 + b^2)= c^2 > (a^2 + b^2) = (a+b)^2 - 2ab = c^2 > therefore, a+b > c a + b > c is true by the triangle inequality, no need to work that hard for it. > a + b > (1000 - a - b) > 2a + 2b > 1000 > (a+b) > 500 > ie, b > (500-a) Nicely done; that hadn't occurred to me. James From yahoogroups36 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 18 15:47:12 2008 From: yahoogroups36 at hotmail.com (Richard Adams) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:47:12 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Jake Commander's Color Trek In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, Jake Commander did a BASIC Star Trek game, published in Color Computer Magazine. Don't recall exactly, but one of the first 2 or 3 issues, I'm pretty sure. I seem to recall it being called 'Color Trek'. Took a couple of days for me to type it in, back in the day. IIRC, the original listing did not work correctly with a Disk Basic system; I believe CCM published an addendum later to correct that. Heck, why isn't Jake on the Malted Media list, anyhow? HTH, Richard > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:18:39 -0800> From: "John Guin" > Subject: Re: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco?> To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > This rings a bell - did "Jake Commander" have something to do with this> game? Did he have an article in Hot Coco/80-Micro/CCM with this game> ported?> > John> > -----Original Message-----> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On> Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:38 AM> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts> Subject: Re: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco?> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote:> > Hello all,> >> > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game:> >> > I know the screen size of the Coco would have made this hard to port, > > but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not?> >> > I have no idea where to get the code.> >> > John> > > > > I typed in a couple of BASIC Star Trek styled games way back when.> > The first one was one of the few games that I played past the debugging> stage.> > It was probably from "The Color Computer Magazine."> > > > If IRCC the names were Galaxy 1 and 2.> > > > Bruce W.> > _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008 From flexser at fiu.edu Tue Nov 18 15:52:04 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:52:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] Jake Commander's Color Trek In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, Richard Adams wrote: > > Yes, Jake Commander did a BASIC Star Trek game, published in Color Computer > Magazine. Don't recall exactly, but one of the first 2 or 3 issues, I'm > pretty sure. I seem to recall it being called 'Color Trek'. Took a couple of > days for me to type it in, back in the day. > IIRC, the original listing did not work correctly with a Disk Basic system; > I believe CCM published an addendum later to correct that. > > Heck, why isn't Jake on the Malted Media list, anyhow? > I don't think Jake Commander has ever participated in any online CoCo forum, throughout the history of the CoCo. Art From theother_bob at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 18:10:30 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:10:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Jake Commander's Color Trek Message-ID: <421140.14986.qm@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just the opposite actually, the original listing would only work properly on a disk-based system. There was a fix ("Damage Report, Mr. Scott")?on p.46 of the July '83 issue of TCCM. The original Space Trek article appeared?in May '83. The game didn't actually use any disk commands (system requirements stated 16K ECB), but it used a trick of tokenization to generate some lo-res graphics strings. I always thought it was a convoluted method of generating those strings, and fixing it meant that you ended up with different colors than the original version, due to using different (cassette-based) tokens. Yes, I dug out my magazines to confirm all of this. Cheers, Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Adams To: CoCO Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:47:12 PM Subject: [Coco] Jake Commander's Color Trek Yes, Jake Commander did a BASIC Star Trek game, published in Color Computer Magazine. Don't recall exactly, but one of the first 2 or 3 issues, I'm pretty sure. I seem to recall it being called 'Color Trek'. Took a couple of days for me to type it in, back in the day. IIRC, the original listing did not work correctly with a Disk Basic system; I believe CCM published an addendum later to correct that. Heck, why isn't Jake on the Malted Media list, anyhow? HTH, Richard > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:18:39 -0800> From: "John Guin" > Subject: Re: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco?> To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > This rings a bell - did "Jake Commander" have something to do with this> game? Did he have an article in Hot Coco/80-Micro/CCM with this game> ported?> > John> > -----Original Message-----> From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On> Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:38 AM> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts> Subject: Re: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco?> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:26:05AM -0800, John wrote:> > Hello all,> >> > I stumbled across this BASIC article about the old Star Trek game:> >> > I know the screen size of the C oco would have made this hard to port, > > but does anyone know if this game was ported to the Coco or not?> >> > I have no idea where to get the code.> >> > John> > > > > I typed in a couple of BASIC Star Trek styled games way back when.> > The first one was one of the few games that I played past the debugging> stage.> > It was probably from "The Color Computer Magazine."> > > > If IRCC the names were Galaxy 1 and 2.> > > > Bruce W.> > _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008 -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 18 21:49:40 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:49:40 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape.exe project In-Reply-To: <20081118043526.CBB4E20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <20081118012456.ABC3920A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118030654.3D84A20A14@qs281.pair.com> <20081118042430.B2BB720A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118043526.CBB4E20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081119024943.D51B920A13@qs281.pair.com> Ok guys, I've made major progress. Tonight, I'm actually loading stuff into the CoCo from my laptop via CLOAD and CLOADM. cocotape.exe will take a PC-stored file and generate a crisp smooth simulated cassette file audio stream that the CoCo enjoys loading. I'm confirming error-free CLOADM's because the PC is creating a copy of the VDG screen filled with text strings. The PC is effectively doing a CSAVEM "FILENAME",1024,1535,0 and the CoCo just does a CLOADM and it gets the live screen, ofcourse. This is just a way of seeing the bytes as they're transferred and that they are error-free. I guess I need to put a .cas file decoder in there before it's done, since Vavasour's casout.exe doesn't want to output live sound on any Windows version I've tried it on. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From jcewy at swbell.net Wed Nov 19 09:38:06 2008 From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:38:06 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > At 09:02 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >> Hi Roger, >> >> For some reason, I thought the Coco did have 1500 Hz cassette system. I >> seem to remember it being exactly 5 times faster than the Commodore. >> >> In any event, what was the speed of the Coco cassette? >> >> John > > They claim an average of "1500 baud" because of the random assortment > of 1200 hz and 2400 hz sine waves. > > The 2400 hz wave is only output once on a CoCo. Some old vintie > systems output 2 of the 2400 hz waves so the duration is the same as > the 1200 hz wave. To me this would probably give better reliability > with cheap tapes depending on the formula, averaging, and testing used > in the load-back code. The problem has always been the drag on the > tape causing the record and play rates to both vary slightly over > time, like if you held your finger on one of the rotors ever so > slightly similar to slowing down an LP record platform. This is why > data stored in blocks loads back more reliably. The loader gets a > chance to get back in sync more often. > I just think that with our modern way of thinking and time-tested > experiments over the ages, that a much faster and reliable tape audio > format could be created that would blow the lid off the old format, > even using cheapo tapes. I *might* save all that for a rainy day > after cocotape.exe is done, but I doubt it. > > Btw, cocotape will have a ~1mhz and ~2mhz save option so you can type > POKE 65495/7,0 on the CoCo and load twice as fast from the PC since > it's a perfectly steady audio stream with no tape drag or drop > factor. The default will be the ~1mhz speed, ofcourse. > So, could you come up with a client/server system where you CLOADM a small routine at 1MHz from the host PC which auto-executes, patches BASIC's cassette routine (assuming CoCo 3 or RAM-able 64K CoCo) for the faster protocol, and optionally switches the computer to 2MHz? Then subsequent loads would zip. JCE From jcewy at swbell.net Wed Nov 19 09:42:43 2008 From: jcewy at swbell.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:42:43 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> Shain Klammer wrote: > I believe that the addition of cassette saving will be of great benefit to > the Rainbow IDE. May I request that you make your COCOTAPE.EXE available to > those of us who have not yet acquired the IDE. (Was there a similar utility > "CAS2WAV.EXE"?) > > Additionally, why not add the ability to recognize and utilize the Coco's > cassette relay? This could be done with any soundcard that has a DB15 > joystick port or via a cheap USB joypad - adding a jack wired to a button's > contacts (or keyboard?)... > > sk > > That would be a very good idea. I once tried loading the game "The Glove" over the cassette port from a portable digital audio player. It didn't work properly because "The Glove" expects to be able to stop the tape and then resume loading its level data when it's ready. Adding an interface for the tape relay would increase compatibility with programs like "The Glove". JCE > 2008/11/16 Roger Taylor > > >> Btw, I also plan to put an option in the menu of the MPROM driver disk for >> loading the ROM image from tape. The disk load option won't be removed. >> >> The catch is that the software can't peek at the ROM file to know if it's a >> LOADM type or raw ROM data, so there will be two modes: Load raw ROM file >> from tape, and Load binary file from tape. >> >> The original MPROM software wants a LOADM'able ROM image, which sucks. >> I've since added a Load raw ROM data from disk in the menu. It takes a >> while to load while the LOADM option is almost instant. From Rainbow, if >> you built a ROM image such as a Disk Operating System, or game, you have to >> put ORG $C000 at the top and choose "CoCo LOADM" for the object type. To >> build a raw ROM image, you have to choose "8k ROM" for the object type. ORG >> $C000 can remain but the file won't be LOADM'able, ofcourse. Either way, an >> option in the new MPROM software will let you load raw or LOADM fromt tape >> or disk. >> >> This is where the live tape audio in the IDE comes into play... are you >> following now? In about 5 minutes or less you could click GO to build your >> project, first choosing "Load raw ROM from tape" on the real CoCo, wait a >> minute, hit '2-Program EPROM'. From source code to ready EPROM in less than >> 5 minutes, thanks to the "forgotten CoCo cassette cable". >> >> For those who aren't following this whole procedure I'm describing, I'm >> making it so terribly simple that it's almost silly. Ofcourse you'd have to >> be familiar with the Rainbow IDE for the PC, and the MPROM system for the >> CoCo. Having those two systems plus a cassette cable is all you'd need to >> produce EPROM software in lightning speed. >> >> This is a start. Eventually I'd like to put support in the IDE for some >> popular Windows-based EPROM burners, but until I purchase and test, don't >> hold your breath on that just yet. MPROM comes first. >> >> -- >> Roger Taylor >> >> http://www.wordofthedayonline.com >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From sklammer at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 10:11:45 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:11:45 -0500 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811190711t77ffe247r5a4767354eaa260b@mail.gmail.com> Although I still think the idea (cassette relay) is good, Roger's utility is likely only a conversion utility - not an emulator. I would presume that a program like "The Glove" loads, *runs* and then loads data. I would think that converting something like "The Glove" would involve manually 'recording' extra blank time between the sections. If you are using Digital Audio Player with your Coco, you could try and wire an external "mini" jack to the play/pause button of your player; however, this could be problematic (without an extra, external, circuit) as most players are set up to 'press' for pause, 'press again' to play. sk 2008/11/19 Joel Ewy > Shain Klammer wrote: > > I believe that the addition of cassette saving will be of great benefit > to > > the Rainbow IDE. May I request that you make your COCOTAPE.EXE available > to > > those of us who have not yet acquired the IDE. (Was there a similar > utility > > "CAS2WAV.EXE"?) > > > > Additionally, why not add the ability to recognize and utilize the Coco's > > cassette relay? This could be done with any soundcard that has a DB15 > > joystick port or via a cheap USB joypad - adding a jack wired to a > button's > > contacts (or keyboard?)... > > > > sk > > > > > That would be a very good idea. I once tried loading the game "The > Glove" over the cassette port from a portable digital audio player. It > didn't work properly because "The Glove" expects to be able to stop the > tape and then resume loading its level data when it's ready. Adding an > interface for the tape relay would increase compatibility with programs > like "The Glove". > > JCE > > > 2008/11/16 Roger Taylor > > > > > >> Btw, I also plan to put an option in the menu of the MPROM driver disk > for > >> loading the ROM image from tape. The disk load option won't be removed. > >> > >> The catch is that the software can't peek at the ROM file to know if > it's a > >> LOADM type or raw ROM data, so there will be two modes: Load raw ROM > file > >> from tape, and Load binary file from tape. > >> > >> The original MPROM software wants a LOADM'able ROM image, which sucks. > >> I've since added a Load raw ROM data from disk in the menu. It takes a > >> while to load while the LOADM option is almost instant. From Rainbow, > if > >> you built a ROM image such as a Disk Operating System, or game, you have > to > >> put ORG $C000 at the top and choose "CoCo LOADM" for the object type. > To > >> build a raw ROM image, you have to choose "8k ROM" for the object type. > ORG > >> $C000 can remain but the file won't be LOADM'able, ofcourse. Either > way, an > >> option in the new MPROM software will let you load raw or LOADM fromt > tape > >> or disk. > >> > >> This is where the live tape audio in the IDE comes into play... are you > >> following now? In about 5 minutes or less you could click GO to build > your > >> project, first choosing "Load raw ROM from tape" on the real CoCo, wait > a > >> minute, hit '2-Program EPROM'. From source code to ready EPROM in less > than > >> 5 minutes, thanks to the "forgotten CoCo cassette cable". > >> > >> For those who aren't following this whole procedure I'm describing, I'm > >> making it so terribly simple that it's almost silly. Ofcourse you'd > have to > >> be familiar with the Rainbow IDE for the PC, and the MPROM system for > the > >> CoCo. Having those two systems plus a cassette cable is all you'd need > to > >> produce EPROM software in lightning speed. > >> > >> This is a start. Eventually I'd like to put support in the IDE for some > >> popular Windows-based EPROM burners, but until I purchase and test, > don't > >> hold your breath on that just yet. MPROM comes first. > >> > >> -- > >> Roger Taylor > >> > >> http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 14:21:50 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:21:50 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> At 08:38 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >So, could you come up with a client/server system where you CLOADM a >small routine at 1MHz from the host PC which auto-executes, patches >BASIC's cassette routine (assuming CoCo 3 or RAM-able 64K CoCo) for the >faster protocol, and optionally switches the computer to 2MHz? Then >subsequent loads would zip. Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as far as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be contiguous, unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all around RAM doing what it wants. I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows for such a trick. NOW, getting to this .CAS file subject that's been talked about already... there seems to be a lot of .cas files available that are BAD. Here's what I have noticed in a lot of the bad .cas files. First leader is far too short or inverted ($AA's) Silence gap too short, or missing, after the 1st (filename) block Second leader is far too short or inverted ($AA's) If a file is already goofed up like this, even if you hand-edited the HEX file to fix it (like I've done with some), you will still probably have bad data blocks in the rest of the file. That is, the checksum at the end of the blocks are probably wrong. I'm looking now for the .cas specs. Anybody? -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 14:36:21 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:36:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20081119193630.2FA0720A16@qs281.pair.com> At 08:42 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > > Additionally, why not add the ability to recognize and utilize the Coco's > > cassette relay? This could be done with any soundcard that has a DB15 > > joystick port or via a cheap USB joypad - adding a jack wired to a button's > > contacts (or keyboard?)... > > > > sk > > > > >That would be a very good idea. I once tried loading the game "The >Glove" over the cassette port from a portable digital audio player. It >didn't work properly because "The Glove" expects to be able to stop the >tape and then resume loading its level data when it's ready. Adding an >interface for the tape relay would increase compatibility with programs >like "The Glove". Are you guys thinking... TapeWire ? :) -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 14:42:13 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:42:13 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <3925f0b0811190711t77ffe247r5a4767354eaa260b@mail.gmail.com > References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> <3925f0b0811190711t77ffe247r5a4767354eaa260b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081119194221.EA78420A13@qs281.pair.com> I just noticed that Vavasour's casin.exe tool is supposed to be able to read from .wav files? If this is so, error-free .cas files could be created by using my .wav generator when it's done, but the CoCo program to be converted to .cas must already reside on the PC. This also depends on whether casin.exe isn't so buggy that it can't read a clean .wav file of a digitally-produced CoCo tape file (no noise, no errors, etc). -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From linville at tuxdriver.com Wed Nov 19 14:38:25 2008 From: linville at tuxdriver.com (John W. Linville) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:38:25 -0500 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <20081119193630.2FA0720A16@qs281.pair.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> <20081119193630.2FA0720A16@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081119193824.GF3485@tuxdriver.com> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 01:36:21PM -0600, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 08:42 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >> > Additionally, why not add the ability to recognize and utilize the Coco's >> > cassette relay? This could be done with any soundcard that has a DB15 >> > joystick port or via a cheap USB joypad - adding a jack wired to a button's >> > contacts (or keyboard?)... >> > >> > sk >> > >> > >> That would be a very good idea. I once tried loading the game "The >> Glove" over the cassette port from a portable digital audio player. It >> didn't work properly because "The Glove" expects to be able to stop the >> tape and then resume loading its level data when it's ready. Adding an >> interface for the tape relay would increase compatibility with programs >> like "The Glove". > > > Are you guys thinking... TapeWire ? :) Well, I was thinking that you could use your stuff to load Boisy's stuff so that you could get a "disk" based coco w/ nothing but a couple of cables... John -- John W. Linville Linux should be at the core linville at tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle. From flexser at fiu.edu Wed Nov 19 14:55:37 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:55:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> Message-ID: I seem to remember 1800 baud as being the figure given, presumably because it is the average of 1200 and 2400. Art On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Joel Ewy wrote: > Roger Taylor wrote: > > At 09:02 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: > >> Hi Roger, > >> > >> For some reason, I thought the Coco did have 1500 Hz cassette system. I > >> seem to remember it being exactly 5 times faster than the Commodore. > >> > >> In any event, what was the speed of the Coco cassette? > >> > >> John > > > > They claim an average of "1500 baud" because of the random assortment > > of 1200 hz and 2400 hz sine waves. > > > > The 2400 hz wave is only output once on a CoCo. Some old vintie > > systems output 2 of the 2400 hz waves so the duration is the same as > > the 1200 hz wave. To me this would probably give better reliability > > with cheap tapes depending on the formula, averaging, and testing used > > in the load-back code. The problem has always been the drag on the > > tape causing the record and play rates to both vary slightly over > > time, like if you held your finger on one of the rotors ever so > > slightly similar to slowing down an LP record platform. This is why > > data stored in blocks loads back more reliably. The loader gets a > > chance to get back in sync more often. > > I just think that with our modern way of thinking and time-tested > > experiments over the ages, that a much faster and reliable tape audio > > format could be created that would blow the lid off the old format, > > even using cheapo tapes. I *might* save all that for a rainy day > > after cocotape.exe is done, but I doubt it. > > > > Btw, cocotape will have a ~1mhz and ~2mhz save option so you can type > > POKE 65495/7,0 on the CoCo and load twice as fast from the PC since > > it's a perfectly steady audio stream with no tape drag or drop > > factor. The default will be the ~1mhz speed, ofcourse. > > > So, could you come up with a client/server system where you CLOADM a > small routine at 1MHz from the host PC which auto-executes, patches > BASIC's cassette routine (assuming CoCo 3 or RAM-able 64K CoCo) for the > faster protocol, and optionally switches the computer to 2MHz? Then > subsequent loads would zip. > > JCE > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cocomalt at 6809.org.uk Wed Nov 19 15:14:23 2008 From: cocomalt at 6809.org.uk (Ciaran Anscomb) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:14:23 +0000 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <22420.1227125663@torch.6809.org.uk> Roger Taylor wrote: > At 08:38 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > > Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as > far as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be > contiguous, unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all > around RAM doing what it wants. > > I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo > tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd > like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by > typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows > for such a trick. A pretty standard trick that I've used myself is to have the first loaded binary patch over either the area of RAM that executes "next statement" or the IRQ vectors or similar. Loading multiple blocks is fairly easy once you've got your initial autorun. I've also, oddly enough, used this to make loading quicker: http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/impossiball-coco.wav.gz http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/utopia-coco.wav.gz With some notes on what it does here: http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/utopia_iball_coco.txt ..ciaran -- Ciaran Anscomb, Perl/C Hacker From lost at l-w.ca Wed Nov 19 15:19:05 2008 From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:19:05 -0700 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492474B9.1000408@l-w.ca> Roger Taylor wrote: > Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as far > as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be contiguous, > unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all around RAM doing > what it wants. > > I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo > tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd > like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by > typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows for > such a trick. > One way to autostart a cassette program: - create a program that loads starting at $182 - said program relocates itself to somewhere sane if needed and calls the appropriate ROM routines to read the rest of the program from tape (possibly "cloadm" to load the next binary from the tape). - said program invalidates the reset vector to force a cold start upon reset - then transfer control to the newly loaded program Of course, this assumes that the program has no need of the BASIC ROM because it will mess up most of the vectors. On the other hand, it should work on any Coco. It should also work for LOADM as well. I suppose one could, theoretically, do the same thing by hooking the the command interpretation loop vector. That said, anyone with Extended Basic would be able to load multi-record files from tape. Extended Basic actually replaced the CLOADM command with a different version that can handle multiple records which makes autostarting trivial since one can load the entire file and have the last block hook the IRQ or other basic vector. From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 15:28:20 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:28:20 -0700 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 08:38 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > >>So, could you come up with a client/server system where you CLOADM a >>small routine at 1MHz from the host PC which auto-executes, patches >>BASIC's cassette routine (assuming CoCo 3 or RAM-able 64K CoCo) for the >>faster protocol, and optionally switches the computer to 2MHz? Then >>subsequent loads would zip. > > > Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as > far as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be > contiguous, unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all > around RAM doing what it wants. > > I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo > tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd > like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by > typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows > for such a trick. > Roger, Color Basic does not support muti-segment CLOADM files, but Extended Basic does add that capability. These multi-segment files must have the Gap Flag byte in the Name block set to "use gaps" instead of "contiguous" because the multi-segment loader calls CONSOLE IN to read one byte at a time from the file (like a data file). The downside of this is that it takes much longer to read the file since there is an additional 0.5 seconds of silence and a series of sync bytes between every 255 bytes of data. One trick I've seen is to use this muti-segment format to load a few non-contiguous blocks at the beginning, including a segment that patches the RAM vector for the error handler and a final segment that loads a byte at address $FFFF. Since $FFFF can't be modified, that triggers an IO error which ends up calling the patched RAM vector which jumps to the CLOADM command again to load a normal (contiguous) file which immediately follows. This requires that no End-Of-File block be present for the first (multi-segment) file. By the way, I too have written a utility to convert CAS files to audio and vise-versa. However, mine currently works on Mac OS only and uses the AIFF audio file format (which is very similar to WAV). Darren From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 17:12:21 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:12:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <22420.1227125663@torch.6809.org.uk> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <22420.1227125663@torch.6809.org.uk> Message-ID: <20081119221230.690F020A15@qs281.pair.com> The Impossiball game is quite impressive for a tape file. It auto-starts and also shows a countdown timer on the screen while it's loading. The file has no silence gaps in it, just a real long initial leader with a glitch of data sound in the middle of it followed by data. Wierd. Oh well, it works. At 02:14 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >Roger Taylor wrote: > > At 08:38 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > > > > Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as > > far as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be > > contiguous, unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all > > around RAM doing what it wants. > > > > I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo > > tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd > > like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by > > typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows > > for such a trick. > >A pretty standard trick that I've used myself is to have the first loaded >binary patch over either the area of RAM that executes "next statement" >or the IRQ vectors or similar. Loading multiple blocks is fairly easy >once you've got your initial autorun. > >I've also, oddly enough, used this to make loading quicker: > >http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/impossiball-coco.wav.gz >http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/utopia-coco.wav.gz > >With some notes on what it does here: > >http://www.6809.org.uk/tmp/da/utopia_iball_coco.txt > >..ciaran >-- >Ciaran Anscomb, Perl/C Hacker > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 17:11:46 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:11:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com > References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 02:28 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > At 08:38 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > > > >>So, could you come up with a client/server system where you CLOADM a > >>small routine at 1MHz from the host PC which auto-executes, patches > >>BASIC's cassette routine (assuming CoCo 3 or RAM-able 64K CoCo) for the > >>faster protocol, and optionally switches the computer to 2MHz? Then > >>subsequent loads would zip. > > > > > > Probably overkill. Also, CLOADM only supports one start address as > > far as I recall. This means the entire ML program has to be > > contiguous, unlike the multi-record LOADM format which can jump all > > around RAM doing what it wants. > > > > I remember back in the 80's seeing Rainbow magazine ads selling CoCo > > tricks like "Auto executing tape programs" but I could be wrong. I'd > > like to know how a lowly 16k or even 4k CoCo 1 could do this just by > > typing CLOADM. I don't see anything in the tape format that allows > > for such a trick. > > > >Roger, > >Color Basic does not support muti-segment CLOADM files, but Extended >Basic does add that capability. These multi-segment files must have Shows ya how much I clung to the tape format over the years. I was under the impression that no CoCo ROM supported multi-segment CLOADMs, but I stand educated. ;) So, where are the origin control bytes in those data blocks? The filename block has the initial load and exec addresses, ofcourse. >the Gap Flag byte in the Name block set to "use gaps" instead of >"contiguous" because the multi-segment loader calls CONSOLE IN to read >one byte at a time from the file (like a data file). > The downside of >this is that it takes much longer to read the file since there is an >additional 0.5 seconds of silence and a series of sync bytes between >every 255 bytes of data. Exactly. And on top of that, this gap probably needs to be 1 second long for ASCII BASIC listings *IF* no motor control is available like with my cocotape.exe program listening to the audio from the PC. I've seen long BASIC listings choke down a CoCo for almost 2 seconds before starting the next gapped block. I'll obviously do lots of testing with that. >One trick I've seen is to use this muti-segment format to load a few >non-contiguous blocks at the beginning, including a segment that >patches the RAM vector for the error handler and a final segment that >loads a byte at address $FFFF. Since $FFFF can't be modified, that >triggers an IO error which ends up calling the patched RAM vector >which jumps to the CLOADM command again to load a normal (contiguous) >file which immediately follows. This requires that no End-Of-File >block be present for the first (multi-segment) file. Makes sense. The second entry into CLOADM otherwise would hear the EOF block from the previous set of blocks. >By the way, I too have written a utility to convert CAS files to audio >and vise-versa. However, mine currently works on Mac OS only and uses >the AIFF audio file format (which is very similar to WAV). I figured I could just throw that feature into cocotape.exe. I can't find the .cas specs to see how the silence gaps are stored. You can't represent silence as a byte that represents 8 sinewaves of 0 or 1. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Wed Nov 19 17:32:35 2008 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:32:35 -0200 Subject: [Coco] Was Star Trek ever ported to the Coco? In-Reply-To: <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> You can play it with the Mocha online emulator : http://members.cox.net/javacoco/ Diego Rogelio Perea wrote: > Oops... forgot to add another... also look for two files in the same > directory: > > C-TREK.TXT > C-TREK.BAS > > The text file has some reference information on the game. The BAS file is a > tokenized Basic file so it won't open on an ASCII viewer. Game intended for > the CoCo 1& 2, it will probably run in the CoCo 3. This one I have not > tried... yet. > > > > > -=[ Rogelio ]=- > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Rogelio Perea wrote: > > >> For one of the many versions of this game - and one ported for the CoCo 3 >> at that, point your browser or your FTP client to: >> >> ftp://www.rtsi.com/RSDOS/GAMES/ >> >> Look for a file named: STAR.BAS >> >> The ASCII code for that program is almost 22k in size, I have played this >> and it has all the elements usually sought after in any Star Trek themed >> game. >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 18:01:34 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:01:34 -0700 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 02:28 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >> >>Color Basic does not support muti-segment CLOADM files, but Extended >>Basic does add that capability. These multi-segment files must have > > Shows ya how much I clung to the tape format over the years. I was > under the impression that no CoCo ROM supported multi-segment > CLOADMs, but I stand educated. ;) > > So, where are the origin control bytes in those data blocks? The > filename block has the initial load and exec addresses, ofcourse. The multi-segment tape format is identical to the disk format. The 5-byte pre/postamble blocks are contained in the cassette file's data bytes. The initial load and exec address in the filename block are ignored for multi-segment files. >>By the way, I too have written a utility to convert CAS files to audio >>and vise-versa. However, mine currently works on Mac OS only and uses >>the AIFF audio file format (which is very similar to WAV). > > I figured I could just throw that feature into cocotape.exe. I can't > find the .cas specs to see how the silence gaps are stored. You > can't represent silence as a byte that represents 8 sinewaves of 0 or 1. > The CAS files I have seen all use zeros for silence without any real way to diferentiate them from actual bytes of $00. I'm not sure how it was supposed to work. My conversion utility does not try to replicate the CAS file exactly, but instead uses a state machine to translate the file. Initially, it starts in an "invalid" state and remains in that state until its sees enough sync bytes to move to the next one. It then looks for the logical block structures, etc... When it reaches the end of a block it returns to the "invalid" state. The audio output contains silence gaps of a fixed duration. This won't work for every CAS file (like those that don't use the defined block format), but it has worked for everything I've needed to convert. Darren From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 19:25:59 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:25:59 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081120002610.6FCE220A13@qs281.pair.com> At 05:01 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > At 02:28 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > >> > >>Color Basic does not support muti-segment CLOADM files, but Extended > >>Basic does add that capability. These multi-segment files must have > > > > Shows ya how much I clung to the tape format over the years. I was > > under the impression that no CoCo ROM supported multi-segment > > CLOADMs, but I stand educated. ;) > > > > So, where are the origin control bytes in those data blocks? The > > filename block has the initial load and exec addresses, ofcourse. > > >The multi-segment tape format is identical to the disk format. The >5-byte pre/postamble blocks are contained in the cassette file's data >bytes. The initial load and exec address in the filename block are >ignored for multi-segment files. I suspected this. There's really no other place for the addresses to go. >The CAS files I have seen all use zeros for silence without any real >way to diferentiate them from actual bytes of $00. I'm not sure how it >was supposed to work. Yea, kind of strange. Maybe somewhere in the beginning of the file is a set of pointers that mark the start/length or end of the silence area(s)? And then there's Vavasour's ROM format, etc. with the headers. >My conversion utility does not try to replicate the CAS file exactly, >but instead uses a state machine to translate the file. Initially, it >starts in an "invalid" state and remains in that state until its sees >enough sync bytes to move to the next one. It then looks for the >logical block structures, etc... When it reaches the end of a block it >returns to the "invalid" state. The audio output contains silence >gaps of a fixed duration. This won't work for every CAS file (like >those that don't use the defined block format), but it has worked for >everything I've needed to convert. > >Darren > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 19:37:05 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:37:05 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> Darren, I've got the key routines put in procedures so I can build custom files easier. During testing I've been tweaking stuff a lot easier. Below is an example of a test ASCII BASIC program I've been sending over to the CoCo. The checksum and block size is kept up with when I save data to the block so when I stream the block out into the audio samples, the size and checksum bytes are included without me thinking about it anymore. A data buffer is first filled with what I want, up to 255 bytes, then off it goes into the stream. Simple enough. procedure MakeGappedASCIIBASIC; begin MakeGappedASCIIBASIC; SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); // create FILENAME block data SaveStr("FILENAME"); SaveData($00); // $00=BASIC $01=data $02=binary/ML SaveData($ff); // $00=binary $ff=ASCII SaveData($ff); // $00=continuous $ff=gaps // block type $00=filename $01=data $ff=EOF StreamBlock(&buffer, $00); // memory, block type InsertSilence(9000); // 12000 hz/9000 = 3/4 second SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); SaveData(13); SaveStr("10 CLS"); SaveData(13); SaveStr("20 PRINT 123"); SaveData(13); SaveStr("30 PRINT 456"); SaveData(13); StreamBlock(&buffer, $01); // End of File InsertSilence(9000); SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); StreamBlock(&buffer, $ff); end MakeGappedASCIIBASIC; -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 20:06:44 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:06:44 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081120010833.45A3420A13@qs281.pair.com> Darren, Take a look at this and then CLOADM the .wav file at this URL: www.coco3.com/test.wav For some reason the first segment has a byte missing, a * character on the last line. The character is definately in the string. The second segment loads the whole line. The same code is used to create the blocks. procedure MakeTestBinary; begin MakeTestBinary; SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader // create FILENAME block data NewBlock(); SaveStr("FILENAME"); SaveData($02); // $00=BASIC $01=data $02=binary/ML SaveData($00); // $00=binary $ff=ASCII SaveData($ff); // $00=continuous $ff=gaps SaveData($00); // ML EXEC SaveData($00); SaveData($00); // ML LOAD SaveData($00); // block type $00=filename $01=data $ff=EOF StreamBlock(&buffer, $00); // memory, block type, data size, checksum InsertSilence(9000); // 12000 hz/9000 = 3/4 second SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); SaveData($00); SaveData($00); SaveData(224); SaveData(4); SaveData(0); SaveStr("********************************"); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" IT WORKS!! .. BY GOLLY "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr("********************************"); StreamBlock(&buffer, $01); InsertSilence(9000); // 12000 hz/9000 = 3/4 second SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); SaveData($00); SaveData($00); SaveData(224); SaveData(4); SaveData(0); SaveStr("********************************"); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" BY GOLLY... IT WORKS!! "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr(" "); SaveStr("********************************"); StreamBlock(&buffer, $01); // post amble InsertSilence(9000); SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); SaveData($ff); SaveData($00); SaveData($00); SaveData($00); SaveData($00); StreamBlock(&buffer, $01); // End of File InsertSilence(9000); SineOuts($55, 128); // block leader NewBlock(); StreamBlock(&buffer, $ff); end MakeTestBinary; -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 20:50:06 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:50:06 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <20081120010833.45A3420A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081120010833.45A3420A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081120015027.AB1FB20A13@qs281.pair.com> Try this one now. I extended the gaps to 1 second. Now it appears that CLOADM is storing the last byte of the segment whenever the next block is started. The segments were repositioned to load at different areas of the screen this time but no other code was changed. www.coco3.com/test2.wav -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 22:21:18 2008 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:21:18 -0700 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <20081120015027.AB1FB20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081120010833.45A3420A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081120015027.AB1FB20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <5d802cd0811191921ubf6617cy108cfaeb26d0b4fb@mail.gmail.com> On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > Try this one now. I extended the gaps to 1 second. Now it appears > that CLOADM is storing the last byte of the segment whenever the next > block is started. > The segments were repositioned to load at different areas of the > screen this time but no other code was changed. > That is due to the way CONSOLE IN works with cassette files. When CONSOLE IN is called to read a byte, and that byte is the last one in the buffer, the next block is loaded into the buffer from tape before CONSOLE IN returns (with the last byte from the previous block). Darren From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 22:56:01 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:56:01 -0600 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <5d802cd0811191921ubf6617cy108cfaeb26d0b4fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191228n2222e36bmcbfc3125d1a45548@mail.gmail.com> <20081119221155.8DF4D20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191501l43ab94we26f4dcf947c6d1e@mail.gmail.com> <20081120003715.3865E20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081120010833.45A3420A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081120015027.AB1FB20A13@qs281.pair.com> <5d802cd0811191921ubf6617cy108cfaeb26d0b4fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081120035620.0D36E20A15@qs281.pair.com> At 09:21 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: >On 11/19/08, Roger Taylor wrote: > > Try this one now. I extended the gaps to 1 second. Now it appears > > that CLOADM is storing the last byte of the segment whenever the next > > block is started. > > The segments were repositioned to load at different areas of the > > screen this time but no other code was changed. > > > >That is due to the way CONSOLE IN works with cassette files. When >CONSOLE IN is called to read a byte, and that byte is the last one in >the buffer, the next block is loaded into the buffer from tape before >CONSOLE IN returns (with the last byte from the previous block). > >Darren Ok. I have since reduced all the gaps back to 1/2 second and everything is loading fine. I'm not sure if any given CoCo (without the motor control) would ever require longer gaps for a binary like this, but my utility will have the switches to easily tweak stuff like this, per file. So far, the following types of files have been sent to the CoCo as "live" tape data: ASCII BASIC (CSAVE "TEST",A) Single-record/origin binary (CSAVEM "TEST",1024,1535,0) Multi-record/origin binary (not sure what programs can create this format, TAPE2DISK.BIN ?) Data files (probably won't be useable on a remote CoCo with no motor control) Tokenized BASIC -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 19 23:01:48 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:01:48 -0600 Subject: [Coco] easy tape file transfer from PC to CoCo In-Reply-To: <20081119193824.GF3485@tuxdriver.com> References: <200196.35127.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116231525.8E7AD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081117030559.CB1A120A13@qs281.pair.com> <3925f0b0811162038t51006b90y143e5389ed5a40dc@mail.gmail.com> <492425E3.4000104@swbell.net> <20081119193630.2FA0720A16@qs281.pair.com> <20081119193824.GF3485@tuxdriver.com> Message-ID: <20081120040158.EA27B20A14@qs281.pair.com> At 01:38 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote: > > Are you guys thinking... TapeWire ? :) > >Well, I was thinking that you could use your stuff to load Boisy's >stuff so that you could get a "disk" based coco w/ nothing but a >couple of cables... Possible, yes. When I do buy Boisy's DriveWire stuff, it'll be on an EPROM and run from a small EPROM Pak I have (or his). I won't have a floppy controller plugged in if I can help it. That's the whole idea of not using a floppy controller, to not even require it to boot the controller-less system. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From cocomalt at 6809.org.uk Thu Nov 20 06:53:52 2008 From: cocomalt at 6809.org.uk (Ciaran Anscomb) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:53:52 +0000 Subject: [Coco] tape format and .cas file problems In-Reply-To: <20081119221230.690F020A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081118004530.2BDA120A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081118031749.9E13220A13@qs281.pair.com> <492424CE.5070404@swbell.net> <20081119192158.B5D2820A15@qs281.pair.com> <22420.1227125663@torch.6809.org.uk> <20081119221230.690F020A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <24669.1227182032@torch.6809.org.uk> Roger Taylor wrote: > The Impossiball game is quite impressive for a tape file. It > auto-starts and also shows a countdown timer on the screen while it's loading Yeah, I remember figuring out just how many blocks it would save as so the initial number was correct. Should point out the game is nothing to do with me, only the loader. > The file has no silence gaps in it, just a real long initial leader > with a glitch of data sound in the middle of it followed by > data. Wierd. Oh well, it works. The name block loads some executable code following the name/load/exec information: CLOAD[M] loads name blocks into a particular area that it then expects to be populated with the metadata and doesn't mind if the block was longer than expected. The data of the first file loads over the "next BASIC command" area to point it into that code which I think just has EXEC (wherever) tokenised into it. I really don't think CAS was ever designed with silence in mind, having originally been used for emulators that intercepted ROM calls and so didn't even need the leaders. It seems the best way to cope with that inability is to just replace what would have been silence with extra leader bytes. Shame, but there we go. As it turns out, a gzipped WAV file doesn't come out much larger than an equivalent CAS (if it's a generated WAV, it'll just contain runs of identical data over and over), and could quite easily contain silence (though my links there were just a straight cas to wav conversion - in two parts to preserve the different frequencies in the data part). ..ciaran -- Ciaran Anscomb, Perl/C Hacker From theother_bob at yahoo.com Thu Nov 20 09:35:34 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:35:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] tape format Message-ID: <47697.63240.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Taylor Subject: Re: [Coco] tape format Multi-record/origin binary (not sure what programs can create this format, TAPE2DISK.BIN ?) -- Roger Taylor EDTASM can create multiple origin ML files on cassette. -Bob From benbleau at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 09:41:12 2008 From: benbleau at gmail.com (Benoit Bleau) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:41:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] tape format In-Reply-To: <47697.63240.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <47697.63240.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49257708.3040403@gmail.com> -- EDTASM can create multiple origin ML files on cassette. -Bob Right, just have multiple ORG statements in your program, then assemble to tape. -Benoit From operator at coco3.com Thu Nov 20 20:42:47 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:42:47 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port Message-ID: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> I'm looking for the specs for the serial port on any of the Disto SC adaptor boards. I think mine is the 3-in-1. It has a clock battery and the 17x2 header mounted on the side. I do believe the pins of interest are going to be the 4x2 set apart from the 13x2 pins, but trial-and-error finding which ones are for send/receive/ground/dtr isn't possible without knowing how to read the signals in the CoCo. Any help would be most appreciated. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 20 22:10:00 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:10:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <49262688.6000808@worldnet.att.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > I'm looking for the specs for the serial port on any of the Disto SC > adaptor boards. I think mine is the 3-in-1. It has a clock battery and > the 17x2 header mounted on the side. > > I do believe the pins of interest are going to be the 4x2 set apart from > the 13x2 pins, but trial-and-error finding which ones are for > send/receive/ground/dtr isn't possible without knowing how to read the > signals in the CoCo. Any help would be most appreciated. ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MANUALS0/DISTO/DISTO3N1.pdf From operator at coco3.com Thu Nov 20 22:10:16 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:10:16 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081121031029.B4F3320A13@qs281.pair.com> At 07:42 PM 11/20/2008, you wrote: >I'm looking for the specs for the serial port on any of the Disto SC >adaptor boards. I think mine is the 3-in-1. It has a clock battery >and the 17x2 header mounted on the side. > >I do believe the pins of interest are going to be the 4x2 set apart >from the 13x2 pins, but trial-and-error finding which ones are for >send/receive/ground/dtr isn't possible without knowing how to read >the signals in the CoCo. Any help would be most appreciated. >-- >Roger Taylor > >http://www.wordofthedayonline.com I found the RTC info in my forums. I must be close. :) http://www.coco3.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=493 -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Thu Nov 20 22:24:43 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:24:43 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <49262688.6000808@worldnet.att.net> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <49262688.6000808@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20081121032459.4E5BE20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 09:10 PM 11/20/2008, you wrote: >Roger Taylor wrote: >>I'm looking for the specs for the serial port on any of the Disto >>SC adaptor boards. I think mine is the 3-in-1. It has a clock >>battery and the 17x2 header mounted on the side. >>I do believe the pins of interest are going to be the 4x2 set apart >>from the 13x2 pins, but trial-and-error finding which ones are for >>send/receive/ground/dtr isn't possible without knowing how to read >>the signals in the CoCo. Any help would be most appreciated. > >ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MANUALS0/DISTO/DISTO3N1.pdf > >-- Cool. 6551-based. Right up my alley. Thanks, Robert. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Fri Nov 21 05:19:49 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:19:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <20081121031029.B4F3320A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081121031029.B4F3320A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081121102008.BF4BD20A13@qs281.pair.com> It turns out I think I have the DISPLAY80 add-on board for the Disto SC. It's got the parallel port but no 6551 serial stuff. I looked up the largest chip called CRT9128 and it appears to be a video chip, supposedly to give an 80 x 24 display (somehow). -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gene.heskett at verizon.net Fri Nov 21 08:03:56 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:03:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <20081121102008.BF4BD20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081121031029.B4F3320A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081121102008.BF4BD20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811210803.56715.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Friday 21 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >It turns out I think I have the DISPLAY80 add-on board for the Disto >SC. It's got the parallel port but no 6551 serial stuff. > >I looked up the largest chip called CRT9128 and it appears to be a >video chip, supposedly to give an 80 x 24 display (somehow). And that is a beast I never heard of before. I hope someone has the driver disk for it & can send it to you. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The time is right to make new friends. From lamune at doki-doki.net Fri Nov 21 16:37:58 2008 From: lamune at doki-doki.net (Mike Pepe) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:37:58 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Disto SC serial port In-Reply-To: <200811210803.56715.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <20081121014301.DDD9C20A13@qs281.pair.com><20081121031029.B4F3320A13@qs281.pair.com><20081121102008.BF4BD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <200811210803.56715.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4C8EB9FD6963BD4C8BA6B0B60FE8E4DD01D867@fenestra.lamunet.local> It sounds familiar to me. I think it's the chip steve ciarcia used in some of his projects back in the 80's -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:04 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] Disto SC serial port On Friday 21 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >It turns out I think I have the DISPLAY80 add-on board for the Disto >SC. It's got the parallel port but no 6551 serial stuff. > >I looked up the largest chip called CRT9128 and it appears to be a >video chip, supposedly to give an 80 x 24 display (somehow). And that is a beast I never heard of before. I hope someone has the driver disk for it & can send it to you. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The time is right to make new friends. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From deemcr at robinson-west.com Fri Nov 21 20:20:39 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael C. Robinson) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:20:39 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Trouble with drivewire... Message-ID: <1227316839.4138.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> I run the drivewire server on a 486 DX2 66 running Windows 98se. I've noticed that dsk images loaded in virtual drive 1 won't read where moving them to virtual drive 0 fixes the problem. Has anyone else run into trouble using virtual drive 1, 2, or 3? Some examples include Donkey Kong, Pacdude, Mythology, ChessIQ... Aside from this, Does anyone know where I can get a working copy of Three C's Project Power Stones of Ard II? I have the manual and a corrupt disk of it. How about dungeons of daggorath? I used to have a cartridge copy of Dungeons of Daggorath but I don't anymore. I also have a worn out copy of Diecom products Gauntlet II. From deemcr at robinson-west.com Fri Nov 21 20:29:22 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael C. Robinson) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:29:22 -0800 Subject: [Coco] How do I order Power Stones of Ard??? Message-ID: <1227317362.4287.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> http://www.vavasour.ca/cfdm/v001n002/page43.htm At the latter site, I can't tell how one orders Power Stones of Ard I and II. Does anyone have a dsk image of side 1 and side 2 of PSOAII that I can download? I'm an original owner of the game, I just need to replace my corrupted disk. Michael Robinson From operator at coco3.com Fri Nov 21 21:42:24 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:42:24 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Trouble with drivewire... In-Reply-To: <1227316839.4138.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1227316839.4138.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20081122024242.380FA20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 07:20 PM 11/21/2008, you wrote: >I run the drivewire server on a 486 DX2 66 running Windows 98se. > >I've noticed that dsk images loaded in virtual drive 1 won't read >where moving them to virtual drive 0 fixes the problem. Has anyone >else run into trouble using virtual drive 1, 2, or 3? >Some examples include Donkey Kong, Pacdude, Mythology, ChessIQ... This does not sound like a problem with DriveWire. There's lots of software out there that will only run from Drive 0, namely titles that have their own disk I/O code and titles that hardcode the ":0" extension for filenames, and so forth. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gmajor at videotron.ca Fri Nov 21 21:51:53 2008 From: gmajor at videotron.ca (Guillaume Major) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:51:53 -0500 Subject: [Coco] How do I order Power Stones of Ard??? References: <1227317362.4287.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <81761172BA154C3E8D80E772BCAC5ED7@goyim> Hi Michael, I don't think you can order this game anymore. However, you can download it from my site at: http://goyim.dyndns.org:8080/coco/Games/ Enjoy! Guillaume ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael C. Robinson" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco To: Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 20:29 Subject: How do I order Power Stones of Ard??? > http://www.vavasour.ca/cfdm/v001n002/page43.htm > > At the latter site, I can't tell how one orders > Power Stones of Ard I and II. Does anyone have > a dsk image of side 1 and side 2 of PSOAII that > I can download? I'm an original owner of the > game, I just need to replace my corrupted disk. > > Michael Robinson > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco-uNHYcr1XS/wmlAP/+Wk3EA at public.gmane.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Fri Nov 21 22:00:53 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:00:53 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape project Message-ID: <20081122030110.E1CDD20A13@qs281.pair.com> Major progress. As of tonight, cocotape.exe is also playing the CoCo cassette audio. It's as simple as this: 1) Plug your CoCo cassette cable's BLACK plug into your PC's Speaker Out jack 2) on the CoCo, type: CLOADM 2) at the PC console prompt, type: cocotape program.bin -o=tape.wav The CoCo loads the file. A copy of the file remains on the PC. I'm working on creating a temporary file, playing it, then deleting it unless the -o=filename option is used which will rename the file and keep it. A file is required because some .wav files could easily grow enormous since it's raw PCM. I haven't toyed with any compression codecs for the .wav file yet. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Fri Nov 21 23:17:22 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:17:22 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape project In-Reply-To: <20081122030110.E1CDD20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081122030110.E1CDD20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081122041756.E632F20A13@qs281.pair.com> New progress. Text BASIC listings, this means programs meant for other computers as well, are now CLOAD'ing into the CoCo, in ASCII format. cocotape any.bas -o=test.wav I haven't done the tokenized files yet. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 22 02:45:10 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:45:10 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape project In-Reply-To: <20081122041756.E632F20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081122030110.E1CDD20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081122041756.E632F20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081122074548.2FB4F20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 10:17 PM 11/21/2008, you wrote: >New progress. > >Text BASIC listings, this means programs meant for other computers >as well, are now CLOAD'ing into the CoCo, in ASCII format. > >cocotape any.bas -o=test.wav > >I haven't done the tokenized files yet. Ok, tokenized BASIC is done. The file to be sent to the CoCo has to already be in the tokenized format stored on the PC. Tomorrow I should be just about done with cocotape.exe. The utility is not a sine-wave to byte converter like casin.exe is, nor is it a .cas to sinewave converter like casout.exe. It turns any PC-stored file into a live CoCo tape audio stream or a Wave file (or both). You just specify what format the CoCo expects to load the stream as. Obviously if the CoCo can load it (which it can), the Wave file is ready to record onto a cassette tape from the PC if you have a way of doing that. This makes it possible to produce CoCo tape software from your PC. The Rainbow IDE will add support soon for all these new tools I'm working in. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From dml_68 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 22 13:21:27 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:21:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] How do I order Power Stones of Ard??? In-Reply-To: <81761172BA154C3E8D80E772BCAC5ED7@goyim> Message-ID: <814184.87122.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Most excellent!! Thank you Guillaume Major wrote: Hi Michael, I don't think you can order this game anymore. However, you can download it from my site at: http://goyim.dyndns.org:8080/coco/Games/ Enjoy! Guillaume ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael C. Robinson" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.hardware.tandy.coco To: Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 20:29 Subject: How do I order Power Stones of Ard??? > http://www.vavasour.ca/cfdm/v001n002/page43.htm > > At the latter site, I can't tell how one orders > Power Stones of Ard I and II. Does anyone have > a dsk image of side 1 and side 2 of PSOAII that > I can download? I'm an original owner of the > game, I just need to replace my corrupted disk. > > Michael Robinson > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco-uNHYcr1XS/wmlAP/+Wk3EA at public.gmane.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From deemcr at robinson-west.com Sat Nov 22 15:52:04 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael C. Robinson) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:52:04 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Trouble with drivewire... In-Reply-To: <20081122024242.380FA20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <1227316839.4138.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20081122024242.380FA20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <1227387124.10985.1.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 20:42 -0600, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 07:20 PM 11/21/2008, you wrote: > >I run the drivewire server on a 486 DX2 66 running Windows 98se. > > > >I've noticed that dsk images loaded in virtual drive 1 won't read > >where moving them to virtual drive 0 fixes the problem. Has anyone > >else run into trouble using virtual drive 1, 2, or 3? > >Some examples include Donkey Kong, Pacdude, Mythology, ChessIQ... > > > This does not sound like a problem with DriveWire. It is, I can't use drive 1 for the 2nd disk of Power Stones of Ard II. > There's lots of software out there that will only run from Drive 0, > namely titles that have their own disk I/O code and titles that > hardcode the ":0" extension for filenames, and so forth. ChessIQ is hand typed in from the Rainbow and it ran from a real drive 1 in the past. From theother_bob at yahoo.com Sat Nov 22 19:08:40 2008 From: theother_bob at yahoo.com (theother_bob) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:08:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Trouble with drivewire... Message-ID: <418706.41696.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Basic programs can easily be modified to know which drive they started from and keep working from the same drive, even if you use commands that require a drive number parameter, such as DSKI$ and DSKO$. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael C. Robinson To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 2:52:04 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Trouble with drivewire... On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 20:42 -0600, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 07:20 PM 11/21/2008, you wrote: > >I run the drivewire server on a 486 DX2 66 running Windows 98se. > > > >I've noticed that dsk images loaded in virtual drive 1 won't read > >where moving them to virtual drive 0 fixes the problem.? Has anyone > >else run into trouble using virtual drive 1, 2, or 3? > >Some examples include Donkey Kong, Pacdude, Mythology, ChessIQ... > > > This does not sound like a problem with DriveWire. It is, I can't use drive 1 for the 2nd disk of Power Stones of Ard II. > There's lots of software out there that will only run from Drive 0, > namely titles that have their own disk I/O code and titles that > hardcode the ":0" extension for filenames, and so forth. ChessIQ is hand typed in from the Rainbow and it ran from a real drive 1 in the past. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Sun Nov 23 01:52:01 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:52:01 -0600 Subject: [Coco] cocotape.exe progress Message-ID: <20081123065225.B84F320A15@qs281.pair.com> Guys, when I'm done with this command, there'll be no need for a casout.exe or .cas converter for CLOADing stuff into your CoCo from a PC. It's obviouslty not a disk drive replacement but it serves its purpose for sure. Sometimes an emulator just doesn't cut it, and there's a lot of CoCo users out there without a disk drive who want to fire some old games up that are only available to them from their PC. I just finished the single-segment ML converter that takes a PC-stored .bin file and creates the CoCo tape audio stream. This involved peeking at the start and end headers (5 bytes each) and putting that info in the tape's filename header block. The rest of the file is one huge block that gets split into 255-byte blocks for the tape file. Still to come, the multi-segment .bin files (usually ones that auto-EXEC or load into different places in RAM). I'll have to examine these .bin files to detect what kind they are to keep from having to use command-line switches all the time to force gapped or contiguous files for the CoCo. Probably just counting the # of blocks will do. 3 blocks (start/seg/end) should be a single-segment file and >3 should be multi-segment (start/seg1/seg2/end). We'll see how it goes. Also done are ASCII and tokenized BASIC programs. Again, the PC file already has to be in tokenized format for that to work. ASCII BASIC can be an original CoCo ASCII file or a text-edited file, like from an IDE. :) I just CLOADM'ed bandito.bin, bandit.bin, and wof.bin (flight sim) which were single-segment files and they worked perfect. Tons of .bin files are on my archive DVD and can also be extracted from hundreds of .dsk files using wimgtool.exe and other .dsk managers. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From deemcr at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 23 02:12:12 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:12:12 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Power Stones of Ard Message-ID: <1227424333.3006.6.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Thank you by the way for the downloadable images for Power Stones of Ard II. I have to run it in single drive mode with drivewire, but at least it works. Could anyone give me a hint on how to get through tower 3 level 2? There is a fireplace with a chimney, but no way to climb up it. I assume that you eat the food. There are a lot of items including a fan, a spatula, a skillet, a ladle, a knife, a fork, and a spoon. I couldn't get Power Stones of Ard I to work, but I never owned a copy of it anyways. I wish there were hints for these old games. From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 24 21:07:02 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:07:02 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question Message-ID: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> Does anyone know if the CoCo patches the Disk ROM if it's available? The reason I ask is that I'm developing an embedded system EPROM which poses as Disk BASIC by having the "DK" bytes at the top. From M.E.S.S., a CoCo 1 or 2 boots into my ROM fine and shows a title screen, but from the CoCo 3 modes, my title text has about 5 or 6 bytes of garbage in it, which tells me something is changing part of the area where my text is stored within the ROM. I tried starting my ROM with: fcc "DK" jmp Start fzb 256 (CCASM's way of filling with 256 0's) Start nop And this works in the emulator, but I'm not sure what OTHER bytes are altered by the CoCo 3 patch routines. This leads me to ask yet another question... how does the CoCo 3 (if it's patching Disk BASIC) deal with the other DOS brands? Anyway, I've created a nice ROM which turns a CoCo into an embedded server. It boots up hands-free-ready to accept MP3 cassette files or those sent by cocotape.exe from a PC, or a real tape deck, etc. As soon as the file is over, it executes. This allows the control program to be uploaded just by sending the audio stream into the CoCo once. If you hit RESET it runs the control program again (or last program uploaded) instead of resetting the CoCo back to a hard start. The control program can be a game or any other single-record ML tape file. I've been sending games to the remote CoCo for my kid to play and all he's doing is toggling the power button when he wants a new one sent. The game starts up automatically. Talk about nice. The serious side to this project is that no keyboard or monitor is required if the plans are to do an emedded project. Just send power to the CoCo board and run a cassette cable to an MP3 player, select (I'll call it control.mp3) and walk away. Or connect a laptop speaker, type cocotape control.bin, and walk away. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From johnguin at hotmail.com Mon Nov 24 22:18:53 2008 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:18:53 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: Hello all, I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been discussed already. Here's the link: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.html I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is possible on the Coco? Thanks, John From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Nov 24 22:29:02 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:29:02 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492B2AAE.19652.18DBB46@jdaggett.gate.net> On 24 Nov 2008 at 20:07, Roger Taylor wrote: > Does anyone know if the CoCo patches the Disk ROM if it's available? Yes If Disk basic 1.0 there is three patches. Otherwise there are two patches. james From flexser at fiu.edu Mon Nov 24 22:40:54 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:40:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: If you put in a STA $FFDE to go to ROM mode, all the CoCo 3 patches will disappear, which I would think would solve the problem. Art On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: > Does anyone know if the CoCo patches the Disk ROM if it's available? > > The reason I ask is that I'm developing an embedded system EPROM > which poses as Disk BASIC by having the "DK" bytes at the top. From > M.E.S.S., a CoCo 1 or 2 boots into my ROM fine and shows a title > screen, but from the CoCo 3 modes, my title text has about 5 or 6 > bytes of garbage in it, which tells me something is changing part of > the area where my text is stored within the ROM. > > I tried starting my ROM with: > fcc "DK" > jmp Start > fzb 256 (CCASM's way of filling with 256 0's) > Start nop > > And this works in the emulator, but I'm not sure what OTHER bytes are > altered by the CoCo 3 patch routines. This leads me to ask yet > another question... how does the CoCo 3 (if it's patching Disk BASIC) > deal with the other DOS brands? > > Anyway, I've created a nice ROM which turns a CoCo into an embedded > server. It boots up hands-free-ready to accept MP3 cassette files or > those sent by cocotape.exe from a PC, or a real tape deck, etc. As > soon as the file is over, it executes. This allows the control > program to be uploaded just by sending the audio stream into the CoCo > once. If you hit RESET it runs the control program again (or last > program uploaded) instead of resetting the CoCo back to a hard > start. The control program can be a game or any other single-record > ML tape file. I've been sending games to the remote CoCo for my kid > to play and all he's doing is toggling the power button when he wants > a new one sent. The game starts up automatically. Talk about > nice. The serious side to this project is that no keyboard or > monitor is required if the plans are to do an emedded project. Just > send power to the CoCo board and run a cassette cable to an MP3 > player, select (I'll call it control.mp3) and walk away. Or connect > a laptop speaker, type cocotape control.bin, and walk away. > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From operator at coco3.com Mon Nov 24 22:48:22 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:48:22 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081125034842.B039E20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 09:40 PM 11/24/2008, you wrote: >If you put in a STA $FFDE to go to ROM mode, all the CoCo 3 patches >will disappear, which I would think would solve the problem. That didn't work in the emulator. You're probably wondering how I knew so fast. I've got the ROM building in 2 seconds from the Rainbow IDE and launched in M.E.S.S.. I even masked the interrupts using orcc #80. Odd. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 24 23:23:40 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:23:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492B7DCC.4000506@worldnet.att.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > Does anyone know if the CoCo patches the Disk ROM if it's available? > As others have said, yes. > I'm not sure what OTHER bytes are > altered by the CoCo 3 patch routines. The best way to study this is using the "Super Extended Basic Unravelled" book. The Coco3 patch routines start at $C000. Part of what happens is that the code looks for DK at $C000 in the DOS ROM. If found, the external ROM is moved into RAM. Then the code looks for clues to DOS1.0 or 1.1 and proceeds accordingly. >This leads me to ask yet another > question... how does the CoCo 3 (if it's patching Disk BASIC) deal with > the other DOS brands? > The code can't and doesn't take into account third party DOS modifications. However, there is so little patching done that it is not hard to avoid these areas. From os9dude at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 05:36:59 2008 From: os9dude at gmail.com (Rogelio Perea) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:36:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> I assume that it would be far easier on a RS232 pak equipped CoCo - there was once an article on The Rainbow called "The Forgotten Chip" and it showed how to add an ACIA chip into the CoCo to allow for better serial port communications under OS9. A BlueTooth CoCo... that'd be neat! -=[ R ]=- On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:18 PM, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been discussed > already. > > Here's the link: > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.html > > I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is > possible > on the Coco? > From gene.heskett at verizon.net Tue Nov 25 08:15:48 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:15:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] =?iso-8859-1?q?Bluetooth_on_the_Model_100_-_any_chance_of_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?getting_this=09to_work_on_the_COCO=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200811250815.48196.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Rogelio Perea wrote: >I assume that it would be far easier on a RS232 pak equipped CoCo - there >was once an article on The Rainbow called "The Forgotten Chip" and it showed >how to add an ACIA chip into the CoCo to allow for better serial port >communications under OS9. > >A BlueTooth CoCo... that'd be neat! I used that 'forgotten chip' kit in a coco2 at the tv station for about 14 years. In fact I still have the machine, they gave it back to me when its companion production video switcher was replaced. > >-=[ R ]=- > >On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:18 PM, John wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been discussed >> already. >> >> Here's the link: >> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.html >> >> I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is >> possible >> on the Coco? With the forgotten chip installed but not connected to the back panel din, and possibly with additional address decoding, a definite yes. An interesting idea as I'm presently using usb extension cable/hubs for that, so I can print from the coco by listing the file to /p. The data comes up here for capture, and is massaged into something to drive a Brother Econo-laser printer by cups/ghostscript, and sent back down the same cable to the coco's desk, and works great. But I dislike the long cables as they are an EMP antenna, and because the coco stuff is not on the same AC circuit with this surge protected, UPS fed circuitry in this room, the exposure to surge damage is significant in a noisy local thunderstorm. >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Snoopy: No problem is so big that it can't be run away from. From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 25 08:54:12 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:54:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: References: , <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy>, Message-ID: <492BBD34.18348.3927C6@jdaggett.gate.net> Yes it is possible. You will need a Coco side driver/program to communicate to the external device via bluetooth. The bluetooth module in the article has a range of 100m and price tag of $65. A lesser priced model with 30 m range is also available. Yes a bluetooth mouse and/or keybord would be doable with such a module. james On 24 Nov 2008 at 19:18, John wrote: > Hello all, > > I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been > discussed already. > > Here's the link: > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.html > > I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is > possible on the Coco? > > Thanks, > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 25 09:15:35 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:15:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125034842.B039E20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com>, , <20081125034842.B039E20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> Roger There are three places that the Disk Basic Code is patched. Patch 28 - $C0C6 of the Disk ROM Version 1.0. This points to the Copyrigght flash screen. that needs updating. This patch is only implemented if the disk ROM is version 1.0 Patch30 - $C0D9 is the patching of Disk basic V1.1 Copyright screen. Patch29 - $C8B4 of the Disk basic Version 1.1 ROM and is 11 bytes long. This is the Keyboard Patch. It stores 11 NOPs. james On 24 Nov 2008 at 21:48, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 09:40 PM 11/24/2008, you wrote: > >If you put in a STA $FFDE to go to ROM mode, all the CoCo 3 patches > >will disappear, which I would think would solve the problem. > > > > That didn't work in the emulator. You're probably wondering how I > knew so fast. I've got the ROM building in 2 seconds from the Rainbow > IDE and launched in M.E.S.S.. I even masked the interrupts using orcc > #80. Odd. > > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From Torsten at Dittel.info Tue Nov 25 13:13:33 2008 From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:13:33 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I assume it would even work at the CoCo's bit banger port. The module provides RX, TX, and RTS, CTS for hardware handshake. Others here have proved 115K is possible. Mark, Boisy, wouldn't it be great to have wireless DriveWire? :-) Regards, Torsten From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 15:20:46 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:20:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081125034842.B039E20A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> At 08:15 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >Roger > >There are three places that the Disk Basic Code is patched. > >Patch 28 - $C0C6 of the Disk ROM Version 1.0. This points to the >Copyrigght flash screen. that needs updating. This patch is only >implemented if the disk ROM is version 1.0 > >Patch30 - $C0D9 is the patching of Disk basic V1.1 Copyright screen. > >Patch29 - $C8B4 of the Disk basic Version 1.1 ROM and is 11 bytes long. >This is the Keyboard Patch. It stores 11 NOPs. The simplest solution would be to just start the code at $c8bf but then you lose 2239 bytes. Actually, the upper 2K seems like a good place to put data but carefully. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Nov 25 15:24:28 2008 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Torsten, These gadgets are so vast in numbers that it is hard to keep up!!!!! Would be fun.....I have too many projects on my plate right now.... :) Don't have to mention any names. Keep the ideas coming!!!!!! Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torsten Dittel" To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:13:33 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? I assume it would even work at the CoCo's bit banger port. The module provides RX, TX, and RTS, CTS for hardware handshake. Others here have proved 115K is possible. Mark, Boisy, wouldn't it be great to have wireless DriveWire? :-) Regards, Torsten -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From georgeramsower at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 15:26:12 2008 From: georgeramsower at gmail.com (George Ramsower) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:26:12 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this towork on the COCO? References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com><49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: <001c01c94f3c$0f6ddca0$6401a8c0@OLDGEORGE> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" > Hello all, > > I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been discussed > already. > > Here's the link: > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.html > > I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is > possible > on the Coco? > > Thanks, > John I don't know anything about BlueTooth so, here's my question... Can two of these talk to each other or does it require a different unit to talk to this one? I'm thinking this may be a cool way to network two or more cocos and even a PC to that group. I could use something like this... maybe, if just for the "Cool Factor". George From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 15:29:08 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:29:08 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <200811250815.48196.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> <200811250815.48196.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20081125202932.7204820A15@qs281.pair.com> At 07:15 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Rogelio Perea wrote: > >I assume that it would be far easier on a RS232 pak equipped CoCo - there > >was once an article on The Rainbow called "The Forgotten Chip" and it showed > >how to add an ACIA chip into the CoCo to allow for better serial port > >communications under OS9. > > > >A BlueTooth CoCo... that'd be neat! > >I used that 'forgotten chip' kit in a coco2 at the tv station for about 14 >years. In fact I still have the machine, they gave it back to me when its >companion production video switcher was replaced. I did the Forgotten Chip add-on as well and it gave the CoCo the same set of registers used by the RS-232 Pack and DC Modem Pak, both 6551 based. The signals came out of the bitbanger port. Does anyone have a PDF copy of that old article? Also, has anyone added their own stuff by using the Disto Super Controller MEB bus? -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 25 15:38:05 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:38:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this towork on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <001c01c94f3c$0f6ddca0$6401a8c0@OLDGEORGE> References: , <001c01c94f3c$0f6ddca0$6401a8c0@OLDGEORGE> Message-ID: <492C1BDD.4339.1AAEDB3@jdaggett.gate.net> George The module in the article is what is called a Bluetooth modem. Bluetooth is a RF link in the 2.4 GHz range. It is bidirection also. Typical setup is a host/server and several slave/client devices. Bluetooth has security in that a pass phrase can be implemented so that only specific devices can login to the host server. Bluetooth has beenaround for better than ten years now and is gaining popularity along with it's competitor Zigbee. james On 25 Nov 2008 at 14:26, George Ramsower wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John" > > > > Hello all, > > > > I guess I missed this last year so I apologize if this has been > > discussed already. > > > > Here's the link: > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/bluetoothing_a_trash_80.htm > > l > > > > I'm not up on BT: can someone who knows the hardware see if this is > > possible on the Coco? > > > > Thanks, > > John > > I don't know anything about BlueTooth so, here's my question... > > Can two of these talk to each other or does it require a different > unit to > talk to this one? > > I'm thinking this may be a cool way to network two or more cocos and > even a > PC to that group. > > I could use something like this... maybe, if just for the "Cool > Factor". > > George > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Nov 25 15:40:18 2008 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:40:18 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com>, <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net>, <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> Roger The addresses I quoted are actual addresses of the code in the Disk Basic ROM. In the Coco3 these are copied to RAM. using above that would eliminate the Disk Basic altogether. If that is what you want then go for it. james On 25 Nov 2008 at 14:20, Roger Taylor wrote: > At 08:15 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote: > >Roger > > > >There are three places that the Disk Basic Code is patched. > > > >Patch 28 - $C0C6 of the Disk ROM Version 1.0. This points to the > >Copyrigght flash screen. that needs updating. This patch is only > >implemented if the disk ROM is version 1.0 > > > >Patch30 - $C0D9 is the patching of Disk basic V1.1 Copyright screen. > > > >Patch29 - $C8B4 of the Disk basic Version 1.1 ROM and is 11 bytes > >long. This is the Keyboard Patch. It stores 11 NOPs. > > > The simplest solution would be to just start the code at $c8bf but > then you lose 2239 bytes. Actually, the upper 2K seems like a good > place to put data but carefully. > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 16:04:38 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:04:38 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.r och.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <20081125210502.9C0AE20A13@qs281.pair.com> At 02:24 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >Torsten, > >These gadgets are so vast in numbers that it is hard to keep up!!!!! > >Would be fun.....I have too many projects on my plate right now.... >:) Don't have to mention any names. > >Keep the ideas coming!!!!!! > >Mark >Cloud-9 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Torsten Dittel" >To: coco at maltedmedia.com >Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:13:33 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: Re: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of >getting this to work on the COCO? > >I assume it would even work at the CoCo's bit banger port. The module >provides RX, TX, and RTS, CTS for hardware handshake. Others here have >proved 115K is possible. > >Mark, Boisy, wouldn't it be great to have wireless DriveWire? :-) > >Regards, >Torsten My 115200 bps achievement through the bitbanger port requires a small protocol to be used. Packets are used to increase the throughput. Without the protocol, the CoCo could still send single characters separately as usual to a PC, but the CoCo could never be expected to catch the data start bits from a PC. *Maybe* with the CoCo 3, but not a 1 or 2. In my tests, the CoCo was continuously receiving 512-byte packets from the Rainbow IDE server and showing the data on the screen. The speed is quite amazing. A PIA rated to run at 2mhz might be required. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 16:34:14 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:34:14 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> At 02:40 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >Roger > >The addresses I quoted are actual addresses of the code in the Disk Basic >ROM. In the Coco3 these are copied to RAM. using above that would >eliminate the Disk Basic altogether. If that is what you want then go for it. That is exactly what I want because my ROM is not intended to be a DOS. Since the EPROM Pak and floppy controller ROMs don't actually auto-start, Extended BASIC will do it's thing then transfer control to what it thinks is a Disk BASIC ROM because it sees that the first two bytes "DK". The CoCo 3 emulators in M.E.S.S. are crashing the CoCo when my ROM attempts to switch to ROM mode, even if I mask FIRQ and IRQ beforehand. I don't know if this is a M.E.S.S. thing or what will happen on a real CoCo 3. I could only stay up so late last night. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From flexser at fiu.edu Tue Nov 25 17:23:19 2008 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Art Flexser) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:23:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: > The CoCo 3 emulators in M.E.S.S. are crashing the CoCo when my ROM > attempts to switch to ROM mode, even if I mask FIRQ and IRQ > beforehand. I don't know if this is a M.E.S.S. thing or what will > happen on a real CoCo 3. I could only stay up so late last night. > On a real CoCo 3, if you switch to ROM mode by typing POKE&HFFDE,0, everything is fine provided you are in the 32-column mode. No need to shut off interrupts first. (Of course, Super Extended Basic commands won't work anymore.) If you are in 40/80 column mode, the screen drivers go away; I think you can still type blindly in that situation. Art From boisy at tee-boy.com Tue Nov 25 17:40:49 2008 From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy Pitre) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:40:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Torsten, I don't preannounce products, but since you asked, I have incorporated Darren A's code into an internal test version of DriveWire that brings the CoCo 3 up to 115.2K and the CoCo 2 to 57.6K. It works, although there is a bit more work to do. As time allows, I plan on finishing it up, but I am ultra busy at the moment with work, so it doesn't officially exist at the moment. That said, I see no reason why a wireless connection wouldn't work. On Nov 25, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Torsten Dittel wrote: > I assume it would even work at the CoCo's bit banger port. The > module provides RX, TX, and RTS, CTS for hardware handshake. Others > here have proved 115K is possible. > > Mark, Boisy, wouldn't it be great to have wireless DriveWire? :-) > > Regards, > Torsten > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco Regards, Boisy G. Pitre -- Tee-Boy Email: boisy at tee-boy.com Web: http://www.tee-boy.com From Torsten at Dittel.info Tue Nov 25 18:06:48 2008 From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:06:48 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: References: <20081117142228.GA31503@tuxdriver.com> <5631e580811170722t4987d39dt14a280fc7204795e@mail.gmail.com> <5631e580811170728t6db3051fr8eba7d020a9600c0@mail.gmail.com> <49249403.9030202@adinet.com.uy> <5631e580811250236v41b623aes9be03c01a1cb96a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From what I understand, this device provides hardware handshake via CTS/RTS. The CoCo should hence be able to ask for a little timeout if close to choke on the next byte coming in. Torsten From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Nov 25 18:14:06 2008 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1854597725.4407171227654846510.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> As long as the choke hold isn't too long so that the Bluetooth's buffer overflows..... The ethernet engine for the SB has more processing power than 20 cocos!!! :) Still fun. Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torsten Dittel" To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:06:48 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? From what I understand, this device provides hardware handshake via CTS/RTS. The CoCo should hence be able to ask for a little timeout if close to choke on the next byte coming in. Torsten -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From georgeramsower at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 18:33:48 2008 From: georgeramsower at gmail.com (George Ramsower) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:33:48 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? References: <1854597725.4407171227654846510.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <003c01c94f56$44d15100$6401a8c0@OLDGEORGE> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" > > As long as the choke hold isn't too long so that the Bluetooth's buffer > overflows..... > > The ethernet engine for the SB has more processing power than 20 cocos!!! > :) > > Still fun. > > Mark > Cloud-9 Wouldn't the software in the sending computer also buffer the output? It seems that when the BlueTooth unit or any other device that does the actual connectivity is backed up, the software in the computer would hold off until the device has a chance to send more data. I think there should be some sort of control here. Even if we connected at 19200 and the coco can't keep up, the handshaking should handle this. Or so it seems. I could be very wrong here. I have experienced problem with the 6551 chip at higher speeds and I understand that the chip itself has a problem when it sends a CTS Not Ready and loses a byte causing a problem. ..... or something like that. This is vague in my memory. If this isn't a problem, why wouldn't the CTS stop the incoming data when the receiving unit isn't ready? Confusion exists here. George From Torsten at Dittel.info Tue Nov 25 18:42:30 2008 From: Torsten at Dittel.info (Torsten Dittel) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:42:30 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <1854597725.4407171227654846510.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <1854597725.4407171227654846510.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Mark Marlette schrieb: > As long as the choke hold isn't too long so that the Bluetooth's buffer overflows... Hmmmm... I thought for a moment Bluetooth' RFCOMM supports hardware flow control (RTS/CTS) emulation, which means each device of the point to point connection can ask the other one for a pause... From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 25 19:39:45 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:39:45 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492C9AD1.5080704@worldnet.att.net> Roger Taylor wrote: > At 02:40 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >> Roger >> >> The addresses I quoted are actual addresses of the code in the Disk Basic >> ROM. In the Coco3 these are copied to RAM. using above that would >> eliminate the Disk Basic altogether. If that is what you want then go >> for it. > > That is exactly what I want because my ROM is not intended to be a DOS. > Since the EPROM Pak and floppy controller ROMs don't actually > auto-start, Extended BASIC will do it's thing then transfer control to > what it thinks is a Disk BASIC ROM because it sees that the first two > bytes "DK". Roger, that is not quite right. Floppy controller ROMs do "auto-start" in the sense that Basic looks for DK and if found "runs" the code at $C002. This happens on all Coco models. Normally, the only thing that happens is that the DOS patches Extended Basic which includes increasing the number of commands and functions. Some DOS like RGBDOS and HDBDOS will also attempt to run a program on a hard drive. What you probably intend is that there will still be new commands or functions, and they will need to be patched into Extended Basic. If that is not the case, then the code at $C002 could be org $C002 bra $C00C org $C00C jmp $A0E2. > > The CoCo 3 emulators in M.E.S.S. are crashing the CoCo when my ROM > attempts to switch to ROM mode, even if I mask FIRQ and IRQ beforehand. > I don't know if this is a M.E.S.S. thing or what will happen on a real > CoCo 3. I could only stay up so late last night. > I agree with Art. There should be no problem with a POKE&HFFDE,0 on a Coco3. I can do that with VCC, MESS, and a real Coco3 with no problems from a 32 col text screen. RGBDOS will still read the hard drive in ROM mode. Exactly what were you doing to cause the crash? From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 21:49:19 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:49:19 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: References: <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081126024923.30FC120A13@qs281.pair.com> At 04:23 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: > > > The CoCo 3 emulators in M.E.S.S. are crashing the CoCo when my ROM > > attempts to switch to ROM mode, even if I mask FIRQ and IRQ > > beforehand. I don't know if this is a M.E.S.S. thing or what will > > happen on a real CoCo 3. I could only stay up so late last night. > > > >On a real CoCo 3, if you switch to ROM mode by typing POKE&HFFDE,0, everything >is fine provided you are in the 32-column mode. No need to shut off >interrupts >first. (Of course, Super Extended Basic commands won't work anymore.) If you >are in 40/80 column mode, the screen drivers go away; I think you can still >type blindly in that situation. > >Art While that may be true, I'm doing everything from a running ROM mapped to the Disk BASIC area. The CoCo powers up, BASIC does it's thing, it calls on Extended BASIC, it does it's thing, it calls on Disk BASIC if it's there... it assumes DOS is there if "DK" are the first two characters of the ROM. My ROM does start with "DK" so that BASIC will execute it automatically, but it's not a DOS. So, powering up the CoCo appears to jump directly to my ROM program, but behind the scenes BASIC/ECB/SECB have set up the BASIC environment and is expecting now to jump to the DECB ROM entry (which SECB has already patched in RAM). From my ROM, I would assume that switching out of All-RAM mode while FIRQ/IRQ is disabled would work, and it should from a real CoCo 3 (I hope), but from M.E.S.S., the system crashes. I'm sure this has something to do with the CoCo 1/2 compatibility bit of the GIME, and/or the MMU registers. Anyway, for now I'm just starting my real code at $C900 so it's works fine that way but I lose ~2K of ROM space. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Tue Nov 25 22:15:42 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:15:42 -0600 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <492C9AD1.5080704@worldnet.att.net> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C9AD1.5080704@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20081126031546.D795320A14@qs281.pair.com> At 06:39 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >Roger Taylor wrote: >>At 02:40 PM 11/25/2008, you wrote: >>>Roger >>> >>>The addresses I quoted are actual addresses of the code in the Disk Basic >>>ROM. In the Coco3 these are copied to RAM. using above that would >>>eliminate the Disk Basic altogether. If that is what you want then >>>go for it. >>That is exactly what I want because my ROM is not intended to be a DOS. >>Since the EPROM Pak and floppy controller ROMs don't actually >>auto-start, Extended BASIC will do it's thing then transfer control >>to what it thinks is a Disk BASIC ROM because it sees that the >>first two bytes "DK". >Roger, that is not quite right. Floppy controller ROMs do >"auto-start" in the sense that Basic looks for DK and if found >"runs" the code at $C002. This happens on all Coco models. Disk ROMs are kick-started from software, not auto-started like a game pak. >Normally, the only thing that happens is that the DOS patches >Extended Basic which includes increasing the number of commands and >functions. Some DOS like RGBDOS and HDBDOS will also attempt to run >a program on a hard drive. >What you probably intend is that there will still be new commands or >functions, and they will need to be patched into Extended Basic. If >that is not the case, then the code at $C002 could be > org $C002 > bra $C00C > org $C00C > jmp $A0E2. > >>The CoCo 3 emulators in M.E.S.S. are crashing the CoCo when my ROM >>attempts to switch to ROM mode, even if I mask FIRQ and IRQ beforehand. >>I don't know if this is a M.E.S.S. thing or what will happen on a >>real CoCo 3. I could only stay up so late last night. > >I agree with Art. There should be no problem with a POKE&HFFDE,0 on >a Coco3. I can do that with VCC, MESS, and a real Coco3 with no >problems from a 32 col text screen. RGBDOS will still read the hard >drive in ROM mode. > >Exactly what were you doing to cause the crash? I never said I was doing this from the BASIC prompt. I don't give the command cursor a chance to do it's job. All along I've said that my "pretend Disk ROM" itself is running, printing text to the VDG screen, and some of the text is corrupt on a CoCo 3. We figured out why, now I'm trying to switch to ROM mode from within my ROM code since the CoCo 3 has patched over my own ROM thinking it's Disk BASIC. From M.E.S.S., it doesn't work without a crash. I have yet to try it from a real 3 or another emulator. As we know, any ROM can be put in a disk controller or EPROM Pak and as long as the first two bytes start with "DK", ECB will jump to it. The appearance is that you've inserted an auto-start program pak, but behind the scenes, the BASIC environment has been set up (without Disk BASIC yet) and is ready to give the OK prompt *IF* the "Disk ROM" doesn't take control. So on my "embedded system", I don't get any BASIC copyright titles or prompts. I get my own title screen and running ML code. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 25 22:43:46 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:43:46 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <20081126031546.D795320A14@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C9AD1.5080704@worldnet.att.net> <20081126031546.D795320A14@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <492CC5F2.9010301@worldnet.att.net> Roger Taylor wrote: >> Exactly what were you doing to cause the crash? > > I never said I was doing this from the BASIC prompt. I don't give the > command cursor a chance to do it's job. All along I've said that my > "pretend Disk ROM" itself is running, printing text to the VDG screen, > and some of the text is corrupt on a CoCo 3. We figured out why, now > I'm trying to switch to ROM mode from within my ROM code since the CoCo > 3 has patched over my own ROM thinking it's Disk BASIC. From M.E.S.S., > it doesn't work without a crash. I have yet to try it from a real 3 or > another emulator. > > As we know, any ROM can be put in a disk controller or EPROM Pak and as > long as the first two bytes start with "DK", ECB will jump to it. The > appearance is that you've inserted an auto-start program pak, but behind > the scenes, the BASIC environment has been set up (without Disk BASIC > yet) and is ready to give the OK prompt *IF* the "Disk ROM" doesn't take > control. So on my "embedded system", I don't get any BASIC copyright > titles or prompts. I get my own title screen and running ML code. > > The Coco3 cold boot routine will not patch anything near the start of $C000. I'd suggest that you have something like: org $C002 bra $C00C org $C00C sta $FFDE * Run your won code. That should be completely safe from any patching. What was patched will be back after switching to ROM mode. From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 25 23:13:21 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:13:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo 3 patch question In-Reply-To: <492CC5F2.9010301@worldnet.att.net> References: <20081125020727.B744920A13@qs281.pair.com> <492BC237.12956.4CBD82@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125202135.108C120A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C1C62.26794.1ACF3F3@jdaggett.gate.net> <20081125213439.8DA3620A15@qs281.pair.com> <492C9AD1.5080704@worldnet.att.net> <20081126031546.D795320A14@qs281.pair.com> <492CC5F2.9010301@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <492CCCE1.20200@worldnet.att.net> OK, I think I know what is going wrong although it just does not seem right based on the Spectral Associates info. Roger, try the following code assembled as an 8K ROM named disk11.rom. Put that in the MESS coco3 or coco3h ROM directory and see what happens. org $c000 fcc /DK/ bra $c00c rzb $c00c-* org $c00c start lda #%11001100 sta $ff90 sta $ffde leax mesg1-1,pcr jsr $b99c jmp $a0e2 mesg1 fcc /THIS IS A TEST/ fcb 0 end Running a test with the MESS debugger, I found initially that when sta $FFDE took place the Coco3 32K internal ROM was switched in. In the above code, switching to 16K internal, 16K external is crucial. From deemcr at robinson-west.com Wed Nov 26 00:10:28 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:10:28 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Power Stones of Ard II... Message-ID: <1227676228.10553.0.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> A hint on tower 3 level 2 would be very much appreciated. Anyone? From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 26 20:43:37 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:43:37 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <20081125210502.9C0AE20A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <20081125210502.9C0AE20A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081127014347.61B4320A15@qs281.pair.com> Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest to me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done already without a single drop of solder. http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 26 20:46:08 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:46:08 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <20081127014347.61B4320A15@qs281.pair.com> References: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <20081125210502.9C0AE20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081127014347.61B4320A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081127014617.A2F7A20A14@qs281.pair.com> At 07:43 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: >Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest >to me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done >already without a single drop of solder. > >http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm Or even better.... http://wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Wed Nov 26 20:51:50 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:50 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <20081127014617.A2F7A20A14@qs281.pair.com> References: <1528646957.4361861227644668618.JavaMail.root@cl04-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <20081125210502.9C0AE20A13@qs281.pair.com> <20081127014347.61B4320A15@qs281.pair.com> <20081127014617.A2F7A20A14@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <20081127015159.F0CF620A13@qs281.pair.com> At 07:46 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: >At 07:43 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: >>Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest >>to me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done >>already without a single drop of solder. >> >>http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm > > > >Or even better.... > >http://wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm And even better... http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/ The CoCo would need a CoCo-to-PC serial cable (I use to make these) attached to the adaptor, and I assume another adaptor on the PC, nothing more. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gene.heskett at verizon.net Wed Nov 26 22:39:32 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:39:32 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <20081127015159.F0CF620A13@qs281.pair.com> References: <20081127014617.A2F7A20A14@qs281.pair.com> <20081127015159.F0CF620A13@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <200811262239.33020.gene.heskett@verizon.net> On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: >At 07:46 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: >>At 07:43 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: >>>Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest >>>to me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done >>>already without a single drop of solder. >>> >>>http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm >> >>Or even better.... >> >>http://wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm > >And even better... > >http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/ > >The CoCo would need a CoCo-to-PC serial cable (I use to make these) >attached to the adaptor, and I assume another adaptor on the PC, nothing > more. Except that both of those devices steal their power from a usb port, so the coco end of it will require an outside 5 volt supply hacked into it somehow. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Have a nice diurnal anomaly. From sklammer at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 00:04:08 2008 From: sklammer at gmail.com (Shain Klammer) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:04:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? In-Reply-To: <200811262239.33020.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <20081127014617.A2F7A20A14@qs281.pair.com> <20081127015159.F0CF620A13@qs281.pair.com> <200811262239.33020.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3925f0b0811262104x1d8ac33am1958d417f34c68d9@mail.gmail.com> ... and at those prices, I'd rather pull out the soldering iron and build one internally. sk 2008/11/26 Gene Heskett > On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Roger Taylor wrote: > >At 07:46 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: > >>At 07:43 PM 11/26/2008, you wrote: > >>>Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest > >>>to me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done > >>>already without a single drop of solder. > >>> > >>>http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm > >> > >>Or even better.... > >> > >>http://wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm > > > >And even better... > > > >http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/ > > > >The CoCo would need a CoCo-to-PC serial cable (I use to make these) > >attached to the adaptor, and I assume another adaptor on the PC, nothing > > more. > > > Except that both of those devices steal their power from a usb port, so the > coco end of it will require an outside 5 volt supply hacked into it > somehow. > > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > Have a nice diurnal anomaly. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From wdg3rd at comcast.net Thu Nov 27 09:54:22 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:54:22 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Bluetooth on the Model 100 - any chance of getting this to work on the COCO? Message-ID: <112720081454.17354.492EB49E000DA4B4000043CA22007503300B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> I do gotta admit that $300 is a bit expensive to connect a Color Computer 2 that cost $5 at Goodwill and a PC system that cost maybe $50. (Probably coulda got both out of the dumpster the next day, but somebody else might have got there first, and that part of Newark NJ ain't the safest place to hang around pre-dawn). (Living in Newark gives you street cred -- unless you have to admit it's one of the other Newarks in Delaware or California). (And I actually reside just across the Passaic River from Newark -- but for too damn long I commute through Newark Penn Station). Happy Turkey Day, everybody. About time for me to get to the kitchen and start burning the bird. Of _course_ I'm the one who cooks (I still hope to open a restaurant up in New Hampshire, but the present economy doesn't bode well for start-ups) -- La Esposa can set off the smoke alarms making tea, she was taught well by my late father-in-law (most of you never knew a veteran of the OSS that admitted it, but John Rogers was shameless about his ["ex"-NAZI] body count -- hey, those guys didn't want to make their court dates at Nuremburg, face down in a canal was better than they deserved). (My DD-214 doesn't fill both sides of a page, his is a couple of hundred pages and half of it is blacked out -- true, a lot of that covers his 18 months as a guest of the PRC at a resort in Manchuria during and for a while after the unpleasantness in Korea when he was in the USAF [he left the OSS when it had its cerebrectomy and became the CIA]) I ramble. Probably too much beer last night and continuing this morning when I have to pay attention to detail to get the feast ready. Later, all. -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Roger Taylor > Although much pricier, something like this is of far more interest to > me than a bluetooth hack. A "DriveWireless" system can be done > already without a single drop of solder. > > http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwHPS120.htm > > -- > Roger Taylor > > http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From gene.heskett at verizon.net Thu Nov 27 10:50:55 2008 From: gene.heskett at verizon.net (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:50:55 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Have a happy thansgiving everybody! Message-ID: <200811271050.55497.gene.heskett@verizon.net> -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If Machiavelli were a programmer, he'd have worked for AT&T. From wdg3rd at comcast.net Thu Nov 27 11:31:37 2008 From: wdg3rd at comcast.net (wdg3rd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:31:37 +0000 Subject: [Coco] Have a happy thansgiving everybody! Message-ID: <112720081631.10009.492ECB690000CFB00000271922007507840B9DCC090B99@comcast.net> Yup, the bird is in the extreme sauna. Time to start on the side dishes. (But I don't do desserts, since I don't eat them -- La Esposa bought a Mrs Whatsits pie). -- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, "That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it". Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Gene Heskett > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > If Machiavelli were a programmer, he'd have worked for AT&T. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dml_68 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 27 13:09:12 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:09:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] Happy Holidays all! (Coco Holiday Demo Disks enclosed) Message-ID: <77650.7770.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here is a small collection of coco Holiday Graphic Demos, Christmas Card disk images. Happy Holidays to all ! http://rapidshare.com/files/167977978/coco_holidays_demos.zip ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From deemcr at robinson-west.com Fri Nov 28 08:41:49 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:41:49 -0800 Subject: [Coco] xmess on CentOS 5.2... Message-ID: <1227879709.9174.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> I'm using it to emulate a COCO 3, but I'm running into trouble. First off, is the command line the only way to control the emulator??? I tried to grab something from sourceforge called xmess-gui, but it is in French. Is there a way to change disks? I'm trying to play Gauntlet II. Another thing, I downloaded DOWNLAND.BIN but I can't figure out how to get it to work. I'm used to dsk images, not bin files. From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 28 11:55:33 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:55:33 -0500 Subject: [Coco] xmess on CentOS 5.2... In-Reply-To: <1227879709.9174.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1227879709.9174.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <49302285.8030709@worldnet.att.net> Michael Robinson wrote: > I'm using it to emulate a COCO 3, but I'm running into trouble. > > First off, is the command line the only way to control the emulator??? > > I tried to grab something from sourceforge called xmess-gui, but it is > in French. > > Is there a way to change disks? I'm trying to play Gauntlet II. > > Another thing, I downloaded DOWNLAND.BIN but I can't figure out how > to get it to work. I'm used to dsk images, not bin files. > > I don't have any experience with XMESS, just MESS. I think you can get your questions answered here http://linuxreviews.org/man/xmess/ . As I understand MESS development, you probably should be using SDLMESS instead of XMESS. Check out this site to see if SDLMESS would be better for you. http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/?page_id=163 From bkheath at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 14:19:35 2008 From: bkheath at gmail.com (Brett Heath) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:19:35 -0800 Subject: [Coco] xmess on CentOS 5.2... In-Reply-To: <1227879709.9174.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1227879709.9174.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On 11/28/08, Michael Robinson wrote: > I'm using it to emulate a COCO 3, but I'm running into trouble. > > First off, is the command line the only way to control the emulator??? > > I tried to grab something from sourceforge called xmess-gui, but it is > in French. > > Is there a way to change disks? I'm trying to play Gauntlet II. > > Another thing, I downloaded DOWNLAND.BIN but I can't figure out how > to get it to work. I'm used to dsk images, not bin files. Having just figured some of this out the other day I can sympathize;-) The TAB key brings up a menu. If it doesn't work try hitting Scroll-Lock to toggle the keyboard emulation between "full" and "partial" (whatever that means). In "partial" emulation the TAB should bring up the on-screen menu. The file manager submenu let's you set the images used for floppies. As for using .BIN files the only thing I can think of is to use another emulator/utility to import them into a .dsk image. Vavasours CoCo 2 emulator will run in a console under dosemu and provides a function to do this. I think it even has a utility program to do this, which should run in a dosemu terminal. HTH Brett K. Heath From deemcr at robinson-west.com Fri Nov 28 16:52:44 2008 From: deemcr at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:52:44 -0800 Subject: [Coco] Gauntelet II and drivewire... Message-ID: <1227909165.11147.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Has anyone gotten Gauntlet II to work with drivewire? I have an image of the boot disk and board disk that I've gotten to work in xmess, but I can't get them to work on my actual Coco 3. I imagine I could go to floppydisk.com and order 360k 5.25" media, but my Coco disk drives are shot. When I loadm "gauntelet" followed by exec on my Coco 3, I just get a black screen. From robert.gault at worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 28 18:39:57 2008 From: robert.gault at worldnet.att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:39:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Gauntelet II and drivewire... In-Reply-To: <1227909165.11147.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> References: <1227909165.11147.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <4930814D.8060008@worldnet.att.net> Michael Robinson wrote: > Has anyone gotten Gauntlet II to work with drivewire? I have an image > of the boot disk and board disk that I've gotten to work in xmess, but > I can't get them to work on my actual Coco 3. I imagine I could go > to floppydisk.com and order 360k 5.25" media, but my Coco disk drives > are shot. > > When I loadm "gauntelet" followed by exec on my Coco 3, I just get a > black screen. > > Are you spelling the name correctly? I know of a Gauntlet conversion for the Coco by Diecom called Gantelet. Is that the game? If not, can you give a url for downloading the .dsk images? The gantelet .dsk images I have work with MESS coco3 emulation. I've yet to see something which ran on MESS but not a real Coco3. From jps.subscriptions at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 18:58:18 2008 From: jps.subscriptions at gmail.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:58:18 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Gauntelet II and drivewire... In-Reply-To: <4930814D.8060008@worldnet.att.net> References: <1227909165.11147.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <4930814D.8060008@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <334E1F2A-2155-4BA8-9F4F-7B5E73A5AC95@gmail.com> On Nov 28, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Robert Gault wrote: > Michael Robinson wrote: >> Has anyone gotten Gauntlet II to work with drivewire? I have an >> image >> of the boot disk and board disk that I've gotten to work in xmess, >> but >> I can't get them to work on my actual Coco 3. I imagine I could go >> to floppydisk.com and order 360k 5.25" media, but my Coco disk drives >> are shot. >> > The gantelet .dsk images I have work with MESS coco3 emulation. I've > yet to see something which ran on MESS but not a real Coco3. Well, there are a couple of possibilities I can think of: 1. Gantelet II might use a custom loader (not DSKCON-based) that would render it incompatible with Cloud-9's Drivewire. 2. The Gantelet II disks use a non-standard format (i.e. not JVC- compliant) that Drivewire cannot read properly. Since you could get the disk images to mount in Drivewire, I'd guess the former might be the problem. -- JP From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 29 09:13:32 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:13:32 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Gauntelet II and drivewire... In-Reply-To: <4930814D.8060008@worldnet.att.net> References: <1227909165.11147.4.camel@eagle.robinson-west.com> <4930814D.8060008@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20081129141357.6045020A13@qs281.pair.com> At 05:39 PM 11/28/2008, you wrote: >The gantelet .dsk images I have work with MESS coco3 emulation. I've >yet to see something which ran on MESS but not a real Coco3. (Clearing throat twice...) Except for two bizarre early versions of my new CoCo 3 games. ;) -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 29 18:21:59 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:21:59 -0600 Subject: [Coco] announcement to reserve "CoCoNet" title Message-ID: <20081129232227.261DA20A15@qs281.pair.com> As the subject says, I'm reserving the name CoCoNet for a new product unless some other title exists in the CoCo world. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com From dml_68 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 29 19:18:25 2008 From: dml_68 at yahoo.com (Derek) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:18:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coco] announcement to reserve "CoCoNet" title In-Reply-To: <20081129232227.261DA20A15@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <677597.47417.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's what I wanted to name our 2nd born son but my wife said no..she has no coco spirit :@() Roger Taylor wrote: As the subject says, I'm reserving the name CoCoNet for a new product unless some other title exists in the CoCo world. -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ** Mistrust Authority. Promote Decentralization ** From operator at coco3.com Sat Nov 29 19:40:55 2008 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:40:55 -0600 Subject: [Coco] announcement to reserve "CoCoNet" title In-Reply-To: <677597.47417.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20081129232227.261DA20A15@qs281.pair.com> <677597.47417.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081130004123.B281220A13@qs281.pair.com> At 06:18 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote: >That's what I wanted to name our 2nd born son but my wife said >no..she has no coco spirit :@() But you didn't, so I'm clear. :) -- Roger Taylor http://www.wordofthedayonline.com