[Coco] COCO DTV

[jdaggett at gate.net]

Mark

Well spoken. I believe this explicitly states the issues and probable paths that can 
be taken. 

So I progress onward with the FPGA design. 

james 

On 16 Feb 2007 at 12:45, Mark McDougall wrote:

> Ben,
> 
> Here's my $0.02 worth...
> 
> The CDTV was a spin-off from Jeri Ellsworth's original project to
> implement a C64 in an FPGA. The CDTV was, as James pointed out, a
> commercial development that involved taking the FPGA design and
> putting that into an ASIC - a process that can only be undertaken by a
> commercial enterprise with a lot of capital and that is expecting to
> sell hundreds of thousands of units. I bought mine for (IIRC) AUD$30.
> 
> What also came out of Jeri's work was the C-one, which looks like a
> conventional PC motherboard but instead of an x86 CPU, it has a couple
> of FPGAs - the idea being that these can be configured on-the-fly to
> replicate 'retro' computers such as C64, VIC20, Amstrad etc. The
> C-one, although technically more complex and the CDTV, is actually
> much cheaper to produce, and is perhaps commercially viable if you can
> sell a few hundred of them. I think they cost around AUD$700 each.
> 
> OTOH you have a plethora of FPGA 'evaluation' or 'development' boards
> which aren't purpose-built, but rather attempt to provide an FPGA on a
> board with an array of generic peripherals and I/O for people to
> 'play' with. These boards can cost as little as USD$99 up to several
> thousand, depending on the capabilities. These are what most of us are
> using to develop our FPGA designs atm.
> 
> The abundance of FPGA development boards and the sheer volume of
> silicon being shipped by vendors these days has brought the FPGA into
> the realm of affordability for the average hobbyist in the last few
> years. Bigger and cheaper FPGAs means more powerful options in the
> hands of tinkerers and hackers. Modern FPGA dev boards are more than
> capable of Coco 1/2/3 implementations.
> 
> So where does that leave the Coco DTV?
> 
> An ASIC implementation is obviously out of the question.
> 
> An FPGA implementation is certainly within the realms of possibility.
> Certainly there are people even on this list that would be capable,
> given the time, to produce a Coco 1/2/3 in an FPGA. So it becomes then
> an issue more of economics rather than feasibility.
> 
> If you want to design a custom board, then that costs $$$. If you want
> to stick an FPGA on it, in small volumes, that costs $$$. If you think
> you can sell a couple of hundred, you might break even. But they will
> be expensive - they certainly won't cost AUD$30. Something between
> that and the cost of a C-one which I believe is actually being sold at
> a loss.
> 
> And you likely won't get a 'joystick' form-factor either. Without an
> ASIC and with an FPGA, power conditioning, I/O for PS/2, CF/MMC/SD etc
> you'd be looking at a "little box" rather than something that fits in
> your hand.
> 
> Of course all of this is completely relevant to the discussion of the
> Coco 4/5 on this group that started a few weeks ago.
> 
> My prediction: not a lot will happen until we have fully-functional
> Coco 1/2/3 designs running on FPGA development boards. Only then will
> we start to enhance the designs for modern-day peripheral connectivity
> and features of the Coco itself. Then it will be a matter of either
> endorsing a specific FPGA dev board that is particularly suitable for
> our needs, or perhaps looking at development of a purpose-built board
> or daughter/adapter boards if there is enough interest.
> 
> I haven't even touched on the option of doing the Coco DTV thing as a
> software emulation in, say, an ARM. That's a whole new kettle of fish.
> 
> And as an aside: Jeri has become the 'Woz' of the C64 and FPGA 'retro'
> community. Sure she was streets ahead of the competition and will
> always be revered for that reason (and being a decent-looking chick
> doesn't hurt either), but that was years ago and what she achieved is
> being replicated by dozens if not more people every day.
> 
> Regards,
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
> 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
>