[Coco] CER-COMP/Where should the CoCo go from here?

[Andrew]

> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:07:54 -0400
> From: Robert Gault <robert.gault at worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CER-COMP software
> 
> The only format that might permit these disks to work with emulation is 
> .dmk. Vergona used a special track 35 on his disks which meant backup 
> copies could be made of tracks 0-34 but the backups would not run. The 
> backups needed to recopied to the original disk with the assumption that 
> track 35 had not been damaged. So, the emulation disk format must be 
> able to specify that not all tracks are the same.
> 
> Track 35 is very unusual. It may not be possible to emulate even with 
> the .dmk format.

Thank you for pointing this out, Robert. This may help. As you know, I 
recently helped with the recovery of Diecom's Gates of Delerium with Tim 
(Lindner) - he showed me some very interesting techniques of modifying 
the DISK BASIC rom image (in all-ram mode) to allow it to to some really 
funky things, so that the disk could be recovered.

Tim - do you think similar techniques could be used on these CER-COMP disks?

> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:09:13 -0700
> From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Re: Coco Digest, Vol 12, Issue 25
> 
> An interesting idea. I'm inclined more toward updated, upgraded
> hardware, but a software only solution (other than pure emulator) would
> be interesting.
> 
> Maybe if the Coco experience could somehow be extruded out of the
> emulator and made part of the regular environment. For example, it would
> be cool if you could have a shell based on Cocoish BASIC and be
> compatible with Coco (straight BASIC) programs. 6809 ML programs could
> be emulated, but it would be better if it was integrated into the
> environment, such that any Linux shell would know how to load a 6809
> machine language program as easily as an ELF executable. Also, it would
> need to be able to mount .DSK images, and deal with rom pak files.
> 
> Maybe a coco themed desktop environment? What would you put?
> 
> I've never liked emulators, since they confine the emulated computer to
> a single window. I'd prefer something that was integrated if folks went
> this route.

John,

What I am getting at is more "let's move forward" - and extrude the CoCo 
experience, not necessarily emulate or be able to run the "old stuff" - 
lets leave that to the current emulators and left over hardware, and 
simply move ahead. The problem is defining the "CoCo experience" in such 
a matter that it captures the spirit of the CoCo.

Part of it is the community feel of it - I have only felt this way about 
two other systems, one which I am using right now: the Amiga line, and 
right now, Linux. I think maybe BSD might have that feel as well (?). 
This is something, though, you can't force.

You need a simple BASIC language - I think BLASSIC could be the core of 
this. I would want to expand it (or allow expansion modules), so such 
things like OpenGL commands could be added (ooh, a port of Dungeons of 
Dagorath for OpenGL would be the perfect "first game" for the system).

I think all of this could be easily built on top of the Linux kernel. 
Debian has been a big hit with modders (look at the success of the 
Knoppix distro) - so build it on top of that, but cut out all of the fat 
- we would only want the basic bare-bones of the system, plus many of 
the standard *nix/GNU software (ie, cd, ls, make, more, etc).

You would want this available as the default - make it the "shell" of 
the system. A console mode you boot into, standard 80 columns, but in 
classic colors - or maybe draw C=64 fans in, white on blue (actually, I 
liked this color scheme on the CM-8 monitor - very easy on the eyes). 
Give it a cursor (if possible with the underlying OS) that blinks and 
dances like the original (but let this be user changable). Maybe have 
the console have beginner and advanced modes (build it on top of the 
current console code in *nix?) - so that in beginner mode, you can code 
in BASIC, in advanced, you can use *nix commands and use a regular editor.

Modify BLASSIC or whatever to preserve most of the COLOR BASIC feel and 
such, but don't make it necessarily compatible - perhaps offer a 
conversion guide from other BASICs easily called up from within the shell.

Forget an ML mode - other than adventurous souls who want to install 
*nix assemblers and play. However, maybe add in a possible C language 
shell (perhaps in the advanced mode?), with similar commands as the 
BASIC shell (perhaps with a conversion routine to convert between the 
two?)...

All of these consoles and shells would be in a full-screen X window - 
but allow for movable windows as well, and full mouse capture - allow 
for everything that X can do (or, if you use something other than X, 
such as the split off X from XFree86 that recently occurred) - so 
perhaps GUIs and other such stuff could be built up.

Allow for the possibility of a compiler of the BASIC/BLASSIC shell or C 
shell code.

In a way, this would be similar to the route of the Tomcat or 68000 coco 
(or whatever it was called), which I never got a chance to play with 
(how many of each of these systems were ever made - anyone here have 
one?). The big difference is that you aren't building custom hardware 
that you have to recover costs from, and are instead building it in 
software on top of a trusted and widely used operating system (Linux), 
which is freely available. I think all of this is fairly easily doable, 
and we have majority of the system available, with little modification 
needed. We just need someone with the skills to bring it all together as 
a package.

Look toward the future, instead of the past.

> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:07:32 -0500
> From: Roger Taylor <rtaylor at bayou.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CER-COMP software
> 
> I wrote to Bill through e-bay last year and I have his reply saved 
> somewhere, I think.  I was telling him that most old CoCo software was up 
> for grabs now on the web and he wanted to know where his software could be 
> found.  :)

 > Message: 4
 > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:01:09 -0400
 > From: "Dave Poitras" <dave at cococentral.org>
 > Subject: Re: [Coco] Game development - plus, what happened to
 > 	CER-COMP?
 >
 > Bill's user ID on eBay is BILLV.  His location showed AZ.  But he has
 > no goods listed at this time.

Roger, Dave - thank you for this information - I am in the process of 
contacting this user ID, and I hope to open a dialog with this 
individual. I will let everyone know what I find out as I continue with 
this process.

---

Thank you all!

Andrew Ayers