[Coco] again: CoCo RGB to VGA conversion
kevdig at hypersurf.com
Thu Aug 19 12:27:04 EDT 2004
Ok, now I;m confused. I thought that the lack of
sharpness in the CM-8 would diminish the blockiness, not
increase it. Maybe there are two things at work: large
dot pitch (increase blockiness) and fuzzy vertical edges
I am surprised that there was not more discussion
about using TVs with component video. As someone pointed
out there is a colorspace difference. But isn't it just
some algebra to go from one to the other. If done right
there should not be any loss of ... information.
Anyone know where to get a data sheet for the 1372?
That color mixer thing.
jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2004 at 11:58, Nickolas Marentes wrote:
> From: Nickolas Marentes <NickM at qm.qld.gov.au>
> To: "'coco at maltedmedia.com'"
> <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Date sent: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:58:05 +1000
> Subject: [Coco] again: CoCo RGB to VGA conversion
> Send reply to: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> request at maltedmedia.com?subject=unsubscribe>
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>>>I don't think trying to get it sharp is the problem. The
>>>problem is that a VGA monitor is to sharp.
>>It's not sharpness that is the problem, it's blockiness.
> One of th emajor casues for the Blockiness is that the CM8 uses
> 0.52 mm pitch pixels. Most modern monitors are now between 0.24
> and 0.28 mm Pitch pixels. The CM8 has "BIG PIXELS" and big
> pixels and low resolution leads to blockiness.
>>>I don't see how buffering a "field" will do any good? Unless
>>>you are playing a game, the display is changing slowly (at least
>>>relative to the screen refresh rate). This degenerates into scan
>>>doubling. Only with a lot more complexity to get it.
>>I don't think you understand when I say buffering. Let me make it
>>How many horizontal scanlines does the CoCo3 produce? Answer = 225
>>max What is the horizontal resolution of standard VGA (not SVGA or
>>XGA)? Answer = 480
>>So how are you going to display 480 horizontal scanlines (full screen)
>>on a 31Khz VGA monitor when your CoCo can only produce a max of 225?
>>You take each scanline produced from the CoCo3 and send it out twice.
>>2 x 225 = 450.
>>This effectively makes every pixel double height or if you like, fills
>>the vertical space between each pixel with an extra scanline which is
>>a copy of the previous one.
>>What is ideally needed to avoid scandoubling is to replace the
>>doubled-up scanline with a fresh scanline made up of new data. It's
>>complex to explain but essentially we're creating an interlaced
>>display that is not interlaced (this won't make sense but maybe
>>someone else can describe it better than I).
>>>The statement that "scan doubling" makes pixels double
>>>height is nonsense. Keep in mind we are filling the same vertical
>>>space. We are just doing it with twice as many scans (that are half
>>>as thick). The pixels will look different. You will be able to
>>>clearly see that they are made up of two scans. This will probably
>>>have some psychological impact on "how they look".
>>A pixel is not defined as one scanline. A pixel can take up as many
>>scanlines as it takes to display the graphic resolution. In this case,
>>the CoCo3's resolution is unchanged, only the number of scanlines
>>being used to represent it. The scanlines are closer together (but
>>there is still a fine black division between them) which makes each
>>pixel appear larger and "squarer".
>>>I do agree that without special processing the display will
>>>look different from the CrapMaster-8. It would probably be possible
>>>to add some horizontal "fuzz" to more closely simulate the CM-8
>>>(perhaps adding a 1F capacitor to the output lines would match the
>>>CM-8). Adding vertical fuzz would be MUCH more difficult. And almost
>>>certainly not worth the cost. Another possible solution is to take a
>>>piece of plexi-glass and blur it using sandpaper. Put this on the
>>>monitor when using it for coco displays!
>>You're trying to be funny right? :)
>>>I would gladly accept the vertical blockiness that scan
>>>doubling will cause to get the increased horizontal sharpness.
>>I know what you mean, I have a CM-8 and it is fuzzy on the horizontal
>>resolution. It is afterall a budget 15khz analogue RGB monitor. I also
>>have an Amiga 1942 monitor that displays .21 dot pitch (same as most
>>VGA monitors) and the horizontal resolution is great!
>>The vertical blockiness would give me the sh*ts. Graphics actually
>>look "lo-res". I guess everyone has a personal preference.
>>>I am fairly certain that the coco is NOT interlaced. There
>>>is only 1 field.
>>Maybe someone can clarify this. The coco sends a frame 60 times per
>>second. Each frame is overlayed over each other the same. What
>>Sockmaster has found is that he can fool the 1986 GIME into dropping
>>down a scanline, into the black region. By alternating 2 frames of
>>data with this scanline skip, he simulates an interlaced VGA
>>resolution display (15Khz still). (He write a terminal program that
>>utilizes this mode called Twilight Term). This is why I thought a
>>de-interlacer circuit would then convert it to a nice flickerfree VGA
>>Maybe Sockmaster can clarify?
>>Coco mailing list
>>Coco at maltedmedia.com
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