From simon.brookes at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 10:10:20 2009
From: simon.brookes at gmail.com (Simon Brookes)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:10:20 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss]  Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
Message-ID: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>

How about Pervasive Games?
S




Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:48:19 -0400
From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Message-ID:
       <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula
ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the
umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you
think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place?

--
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From andrhia at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 11:55:56 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:55:56 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Fwd: QOL Survey
In-Reply-To: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1F2F20B@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
References: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1F2F20B@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
Message-ID: <5c799fd60909010855s4bdf4d48je1e8da62751632b3@mail.gmail.com>

The IGDA Quality of Life survey is up, and we'd all appreciate if
you'd take a few minutes to fill it out. They'd like to gather as much
data as possible.

The link is http://www.igda.org/qol/qol_survey.php   - OR ? you can
reach it by clicking Survey from : http://www.igda.org/qol/.

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From marcus.helm at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:24:47 2009
From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:24:47 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
In-Reply-To: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>

ARG's as a genre of Pervasive Games has been tossed around before.
I see sense in it but have been shot down more than once before.
Lets see how long it flies.

h


On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Simon Brookes <simon.brookes at gmail.com>wrote:

> How about Pervasive Games?
> S
>
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:48:19 -0400
> From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula
> ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the
> umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you
> think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place?
>
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Wed Sep  2 14:49:54 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:49:54 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6C43692.17CBE%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>

What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play, where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences? What would that look like and how would it work?

I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest and I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a conference focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a Festival, where we can go and play them. It could have panels as well, like a film festival, but the panels would be in context of the experiences going on at the festival.

Is there any value in something like that?

-Mike

From btradish at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 15:51:27 2009
From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:51:27 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
Message-ID: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

So people would attend this event, interact with story characters, interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.  (Suddenly I'm imagining explaining the idea of ARGs: "It's like LARP, but you 'play' yourself.")  Anyway, my point is: There have got to be people who have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.  And I know LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con.  Does anyone have any contacts in the LARP community who could offer the benefit of their experience?

--
John Evans
Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 2:49 PM
>To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
>
>What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play, where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences? What would that look like and how would it work?
>
>I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest and I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a conference focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a Festival, where we can go and play them. It could have panels as well, like a film festival, but the panels would be in context of the experiences going on at the festival.
>
>Is there any value in something like that?
>
>-Mike
>_______________________________________________
>ARG_Discuss mailing list
>ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 16:42:42 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:42:42 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909021342ld188d8yaec488c74c39d2ce@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone !

John, you make an interesting point - and I reached the same conclusion
about a year ago before the launch of Fais-Moi Jouer ! by reaching out to
the French LARP community. However, "big" LARP associations never got back
to me about the possibility of analyzing the ARG phenomenon through their
lenses. However, I'll make sure to bug them again : thanks for bringing this
up !

As for Michael's initial point, I think it's an interesting suggestion in
terms of...
1) Community involvement : Should people sign up early for such an event, it
would be possible to open a games submission section giving ARG designers
(independent preferably ?) the opportunity to pitch their scenario to the
community and if need be recruit actors for non-playing characters,
voluntary writers or puzzle designers (if they're into that kind of thing).
Based on conceptual work and a synopsis, the players/attendees could vote to
select their top 3 games, which would then be players at the event.

2) Players numbers : All too often games die out because of the lack of
players in the middle of the mass of non-players, whether that's through the
Internet or whatever the media of your choosing is, no matter how good your
story/storytelling/puzzles/designs. Being able to reach people who're
essentially there for the purpose on playing gives designers a better chance
to show what they have to offer instead of going out in a whimper.

3) I had a 3rd point which completely eludes me for now !

Thoughts ?

2009/9/2 John Evans <btradish at earthlink.net>

> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters, interact
> with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like Live Action
> Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a criticism, of course,
> I'm all for LARPing.  (Suddenly I'm imagining explaining the idea of ARGs:
> "It's like LARP, but you 'play' yourself.")  Anyway, my point is: There have
> got to be people who have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.  And
> I know LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con.  Does anyone have any
> contacts in the LARP community who could offer the benefit of their
> experience?
>

From brooke at giantmice.com  Wed Sep  2 16:47:39 2009
From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:47:39 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>

In my mind, it would look something like this...

A series of presentations and case studies - some post-mortems, some  
introductions. Running along side this or, perhaps, adjacent to it,  
would be a lot of activities. Some would be fairly stand-alone sorts  
of things like the Hidden Park game or other Augmented Reality type  
things. Others would be ongoing types of things - like local  
geocaches. Still others might be live events for currently running  
campaigns such as we've seen happen at comic-con (or using a different  
TDK/WSS example, there could be a political rally for Harvey Dent). I  
think it would be great to reach out to people working in the urban  
gaming area, as well - maybe get a city-wide scavenger hunt or two  
going on. There may be deeper character interactions, similar to what  
John mentioned (or akin to the activities we've done in Eldritch where  
players spend an extended amount of time with characters - who, funny  
he should mention LARPs, we've often cast out of LARP troupes).

It would be a large mix of games and experiences. Some things would be  
time specific and some might require sign-up. These things could be  
registered for online and at some sort of ARG HQ which would also have  
some breakout areas for impromptu presentations and whatnots. All of  
this would be documented on some sort of big board and/or website so  
people have an idea of what's going on when & where. The trick, in my  
opinion, is to have a wide variety of experiences without having so  
many that it's complete chaos. And, of course, some "control" by  
listing official events (because you just know some would want it to  
appear less "scripted" and want to be off the grid - that's ok, but if  
too many do it, it gets confusing and was this for game x or game y).

Oh! and of course there has to be a huge crazy party. Maybe with some  
costuming. Possibly with some roaming characters. Definitely with some  
insane electronic augmented music sort of something or other.

(admittedly, I have been thinking about this a lot lately because of  
ARGFest 2010 planning... hinthint... keep the ideas rolling ;))







On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:51 PM, John Evans wrote:
> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,  
> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like  
> Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a  
> criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.

> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>
>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play,  
>> where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences?  
>> What would that look like and how would it work?


From Markus.Montola at uta.fi  Wed Sep  2 18:12:53 2009
From: Markus.Montola at uta.fi (Markus Montola)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:12:53 +0300
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
In-Reply-To: <4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>

Hmm,

Whether A is a proper umbrella term for B or not depends I suppose on  
both the definitions of A and B. In our book Pervasive Games: Theory  
and Design (http://pervasivegames.wordpress.com) our concept of  
pervasive games is very broad, and at least according to that  
definition, ARGs are one of the things falling under that umbrella.

But fundamentally, I suppose, the question is: "what do you need the  
umbrella for?" Werewolf and Art of H3ist are certainly both social  
games, but I don't see why they should fit under the same umbrella in  
most cases. One is a party (?) game for 10 people, the other is a  
long-lasting experiece for thousands. One is an emergent experience  
taking form from intergroup interactions, while the other is a  
somewhat planned experience. One is a zero-sum PVP game, other is an  
everyone wins -style PVE game.

So... Pervasive games is one umbrella where you can put ARGs, social  
games (?!?) is another. Or puzzle games, or massively collaborative  
games, or supergames or whatever. There's an umbrella for everyone.


  - Markus


> ARG's as a genre of Pervasive Games has been tossed around before.
> I see sense in it but have been shot down more than once before.
> Lets see how long it flies.
>
> h
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Simon Brookes <simon.brookes at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> How about Pervasive Games?
>> S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:48:19 -0400
>> From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>       <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula
>> ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the
>> umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you
>> think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place?
>>
>> --
>> Andrea Phillips
>> http://www.aaphillips.com
>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
>> Words * Culture * Interaction
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From Markus.Montola at uta.fi  Wed Sep  2 18:01:16 2009
From: Markus.Montola at uta.fi (Markus Montola)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:01:16 +0300
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>

In the Nordic countries the most interesting larp meeting is the  
Knutpunkt (a.k.a. Solmukohta). The thing is that very few larps are  
played in the convention itself, since high-end larps are not easy to  
stage in that environment. I mean -- if you want to spend a week in a  
fantasy village with a hydraulic dragon (www.dragonbane.org), or a  
weekend on a city square full of trash and societal problems  
(www.systemdanmarc.dk), it does not easily fit into a  
convention/festival program.

So, when larps are played in conventions, they are always of special  
variety suited for the occasion -- parlor larps and the like -- and  
not the "real thing". Of course, over the years the genre of  
convention larps has grown into a thing in itself.

And that's what would apply to ARGs as well I suppose. Staging the  
"real thing" -- massively collaborative long-term internet puzzle  
thingys -- would not make sense, so you'd end up with something closer  
to puzzlehunts and the like. That could grow into an interesting genre  
of festival ARGs or not, dunno.

(Similar progression has happened with the Game culture. Actual Games  
are too massive to stage in smaller events, so small Gamelike  
experiences -- like Shinteki Decathlons  
(http://blog.puzzalot.com/2009/06/shinteki-5-playtest-and-volunteering.html)  
have emerged.)

The question on whether a con-larp can ever aspire to be as "cool" as  
the real thing, or whether a Shinteki-like mini-Game can ever be as  
cool as the real thing, is up to you to decide. The question, I  
suppose, is whether you can get a sensible ARG experience in less than  
16 hours.


My 2c,

  - Markus

> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,  
> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like  
> Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a  
> criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.  (Suddenly I'm imagining  
> explaining the idea of ARGs: "It's like LARP, but you 'play'  
> yourself.")  Anyway, my point is: There have got to be people who  
> have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.  And I know  
> LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con.  Does anyone have any  
> contacts in the LARP community who could offer the benefit of their  
> experience?
>
> --
> John Evans
> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 2:49 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>> Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
>>
>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play,  
>> where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences?  
>> What would that look like and how would it work?
>>
>> I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest and  
>> I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a conference  
>> focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a Festival,  
>> where we can go and play them. It could have panels as well, like a  
>> film festival, but the panels would be in context of the  
>> experiences going on at the festival.
>>
>> Is there any value in something like that?
>>
>> -Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



  - Markus

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Wed Sep  2 18:47:03 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:47:03 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>
Message-ID: <C6C46E27.17CF1%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>

I was thinking something like a Fringe or film festival. People submit a description of their ARGs/experiences to the festival and the festival selects the best of them to be presented at the festival. There would be a catalog/website of experiences and you could choose to either buy an individual ticket for a specific experience/ARG or you could buy a festival pass that allows you to do whatever you want. As for when the ARG or experience begins and ends, that would be up to the creators. For example, I might pitch an ARG that starts the minute you buy a ticket, sending you to websites, calling you up, and then culminating at a live experience at the festival. Or maybe the live experience at the festival is the start of something that continues for a few weeks after. Or maybe it's like the 10 minute ARG that Steve Peters presented at ARGFest, the ARG equivalent of a short film or one-act play!

This would fill a lot of holes in the ARG Community:


 1.  Provide a stage for indie creators to present work to the public in an environment that encourages people to participate in their games.
 2.  Foster an environment of experimentation and discovery within both the ARG creator and player communities.
 3.  Provide an opportunity for the public to explore ARGs in a friendly and approachable environment.
 4.  Great PR opportunities for ARGs in general, vs the kind of PR that is usually driven by big marketing games.
 5.  Opportunities for creative collaboration on many levels.

Alongside of this you would have panels, parties and other events, much like film festivals do. It's something that would appeal to a more general audience, and I could see how an event like this could be a catalyst for incredible opportunities to spring forth, as they do at film and Fringe festivals around the world.

-Mike


On 9/2/09 4:47 PM, "Brooke Thompson" <brooke at giantmice.com> wrote:

In my mind, it would look something like this...

A series of presentations and case studies - some post-mortems, some
introductions. Running along side this or, perhaps, adjacent to it,
would be a lot of activities. Some would be fairly stand-alone sorts
of things like the Hidden Park game or other Augmented Reality type
things. Others would be ongoing types of things - like local
geocaches. Still others might be live events for currently running
campaigns such as we've seen happen at comic-con (or using a different
TDK/WSS example, there could be a political rally for Harvey Dent). I
think it would be great to reach out to people working in the urban
gaming area, as well - maybe get a city-wide scavenger hunt or two
going on. There may be deeper character interactions, similar to what
John mentioned (or akin to the activities we've done in Eldritch where
players spend an extended amount of time with characters - who, funny
he should mention LARPs, we've often cast out of LARP troupes).

It would be a large mix of games and experiences. Some things would be
time specific and some might require sign-up. These things could be
registered for online and at some sort of ARG HQ which would also have
some breakout areas for impromptu presentations and whatnots. All of
this would be documented on some sort of big board and/or website so
people have an idea of what's going on when & where. The trick, in my
opinion, is to have a wide variety of experiences without having so
many that it's complete chaos. And, of course, some "control" by
listing official events (because you just know some would want it to
appear less "scripted" and want to be off the grid - that's ok, but if
too many do it, it gets confusing and was this for game x or game y).

Oh! and of course there has to be a huge crazy party. Maybe with some
costuming. Possibly with some roaming characters. Definitely with some
insane electronic augmented music sort of something or other.

(admittedly, I have been thinking about this a lot lately because of
ARGFest 2010 planning... hinthint... keep the ideas rolling ;))







On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:51 PM, John Evans wrote:
> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,
> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like
> Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a
> criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.

> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>
>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play,
>> where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences?
>> What would that look like and how would it work?

_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From simon.brookes at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 19:06:23 2009
From: simon.brookes at gmail.com (Simon Brookes)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:06:23 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
Message-ID: <D66D44F7-8257-44A5-AD86-F73B5665154F@gmail.com>

I just got really excited because I misread the title of this  
discussion as "What if ARGs had a real ALE festival?". It's worth  
pointing out that:

A) I am English
B) I am currently in Scotland and have been drinking single malt  
whiskey this evening

None the less (please hyphenate that at your discretion) I think a  
real ale focussed ARG is most definately the way ahead.

On a more serious note, do/would any of these festivals ever happen in  
the UK?

Cheers

Simon

Sent from my iPhone

From camherst at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 19:18:00 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:18:00 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <19849af80909021618r472b3238hc2775621b9cdd6b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 3:51 PM, John Evans<btradish at earthlink.net> wrote:
> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters, interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like >Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets. ?That's not a criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing. ?(Suddenly I'm imagining >explaining the idea of ARGs: "It's like LARP, but you 'play' yourself.")

Having moderated a panel at Intercon New England ("Intercon I") on
ARGs and LARP, I used a similar description

>Anyway, my point is: There have got to be people who have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.
>And I know LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con. ?Does anyone have any contacts in the LARP community
>who could offer the benefit of their experience?

Is your question more related to on the logistics of such weekends or
the programming aspect?

Signed,
Christopher

From dflor71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 19:41:01 2009
From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:41:01 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
In-Reply-To: <20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <50b4b0580909021641q432a9fb7p5c9c3b02b3dcbb4e@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know... I'm considering my next game more "interactive
fiction" than "alternate reality", but the term "IF" already has a
precedent (thanks for stealing our description, Infocom!).

Tnx & Rgds...
David Flor
Darklight Interactive

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Markus Montola<Markus.Montola at uta.fi> wrote:
> Hmm,
>
> Whether A is a proper umbrella term for B or not depends I suppose on both
> the definitions of A and B. In our book Pervasive Games: Theory and Design
> (http://pervasivegames.wordpress.com) our concept of pervasive games is very
> broad, and at least according to that definition, ARGs are one of the things
> falling under that umbrella.
>
> But fundamentally, I suppose, the question is: "what do you need the
> umbrella for?" Werewolf and Art of H3ist are certainly both social games,
> but I don't see why they should fit under the same umbrella in most cases.
> One is a party (?) game for 10 people, the other is a long-lasting experiece
> for thousands. One is an emergent experience taking form from intergroup
> interactions, while the other is a somewhat planned experience. One is a
> zero-sum PVP game, other is an everyone wins -style PVE game.
>
> So... Pervasive games is one umbrella where you can put ARGs, social games
> (?!?) is another. Or puzzle games, or massively collaborative games, or
> supergames or whatever. There's an umbrella for everyone.
>
>
> ?- Markus
>
>
>> ARG's as a genre of Pervasive Games has been tossed around before.
>> I see sense in it but have been shot down more than once before.
>> Lets see how long it flies.
>>
>> h
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Simon Brookes
>> <simon.brookes at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> How about Pervasive Games?
>>> S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:48:19 -0400
>>> From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ? ? ?<5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula
>>> ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the
>>> umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you
>>> think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrea Phillips
>>> http://www.aaphillips.com
>>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
>>> Words * Culture * Interaction
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From camherst at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 19:59:13 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:59:13 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term
In-Reply-To: <20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>

Markus wrote:
> But fundamentally, I suppose, the question is: "what do you need the umbrella for?"
>Werewolf and Art of H3ist are certainly both social games, but I don't see why they should fit under the same umbrella in most cases.

I'll make a counter argument that an umbrella does matter.

In order to analyze any qualitiative data in the creative community
and in the playing community, we have a vocabulary that allows us to
be able to talk about the discrete differences between one style or
form and another.

Conceptually, we understand that a puzzle hunt is different than a
LARP is different than an ARG is different than a "Big" Game.
Yet, we still are left with the question:
Do they represent forms within that umbrella?  Do they represent styles?
What attributes do they all share?

Is a sufficiently well-designed ARG indistinguishable from a LARP (or
a Puzzle Hunt)?
(If not, how?)

Chris

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Wed Sep  2 19:57:08 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:57:08 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2FA1F779-DF10-437E-9F6C-ED1E092A20A3@campfirenyc.com>

That might be one experience within the larger festival, but I  
wouldn't imagine it be all about role playing, but more an environment  
condusive to presenting and experiencing a variety of ARGs and similar  
type experiences.

Mike
http://www.campfirenyc.com/
Sent from a smart(-ish) phone.

On Sep 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, "John Evans" <btradish at earthlink.net> wrote:

> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,  
> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like  
> Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a  
> criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.  (Suddenly I'm imagining  
> explaining the idea of ARGs: "It's like LARP, but you 'play'  
> yourself.")  Anyway, my point is: There have got to be people who  
> have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.  And I know  
> LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con.  Does anyone have any  
> contacts in the LARP community who could offer the benefit of their  
> experience?
>
> --
> John Evans
> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 2:49 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>> Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
>>
>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play,  
>> where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences?  
>> What would that look like and how would it work?
>>
>> I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest and  
>> I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a conference  
>> focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a Festival,  
>> where we can go and play them. It could have panels as well, like a  
>> film festival, but the panels would be in context of the  
>> experiences going on at the festival.
>>
>> Is there any value in something like that?
>>
>> -Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From varineq at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 20:25:44 2009
From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:25:44 -0500
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <2EA50C4A-4553-41B1-B81C-ACB9B3F2DF34@gmail.com>



Michelle

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Markus Montola <Markus.Montola at uta.fi>  
wrote:

> In the Nordic countries the most interesting larp meeting is the  
> Knutpunkt (a.k.a. Solmukohta). The thing is that very few larps are  
> played in the convention itself, since high-end larps are not easy  
> to stage in that environment. I mean -- if you want to spend a week  
> in a fantasy village with a hydraulic dragon (www.dragonbane.org),  
> or a weekend on a city square full of trash and societal problems (www.systemdanmarc.dk 
> ), it does not easily fit into a convention/festival program.
>
> So, when larps are played in conventions, they are always of special  
> variety suited for the occasion -- parlor larps and the like -- and  
> not the "real thing". Of course, over the years the genre of  
> convention larps has grown into a thing in itself.
>
> And that's what would apply to ARGs as well I suppose. Staging the  
> "real thing" -- massively collaborative long-term internet puzzle  
> thingys -- would not make sense, so you'd end up with something  
> closer to puzzlehunts and the like. That could grow into an  
> interesting genre of festival ARGs or not, dunno.
>
> (Similar progression has happened with the Game culture. Actual  
> Games are too massive to stage in smaller events, so small Gamelike  
> experiences -- like Shinteki Decathlons (http://blog.puzzalot.com/2009/06/shinteki-5-playtest-and-volunteering.html 
> ) have emerged.)
>
> The question on whether a con-larp can ever aspire to be as "cool"  
> as the real thing, or whether a Shinteki-like mini-Game can ever be  
> as cool as the real thing, is up to you to decide. The question, I  
> suppose, is whether you can get a sensible ARG experience in less  
> than 16 hours.
>
>
> My 2c,
>
> - Markus
>
>> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,  
>> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like  
>> Live Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a  
>> criticism, of course, I'm all for LARPing.  (Suddenly I'm imagining  
>> explaining the idea of ARGs: "It's like LARP, but you 'play'  
>> yourself.")  Anyway, my point is: There have got to be people who  
>> have run "LARP weekends" that have games going on.  And I know  
>> LARPing happens at conventions like I-Con.  Does anyone have any  
>> contacts in the LARP community who could offer the benefit of their  
>> experience?
>>
>> --
>> John Evans
>> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 2:49 PM
>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
>>>
>>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play,  
>>> where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences?  
>>> What would that look like and how would it work?
>>>
>>> I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest  
>>> and I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a  
>>> conference focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a  
>>> Festival, where we can go and play them. It could have panels as  
>>> well, like a film festival, but the panels would be in context of  
>>> the experiences going on at the festival.
>>>
>>> Is there any value in something like that?
>>>
>>> -Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
>
>
>
> - Markus
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From varineq at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 20:28:10 2009
From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:28:10 -0500
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <66E60B78-0C13-42C3-B288-0A8B3A3C0BEE@gmail.com>

I know one thing - I definitely want to spend a week in a fantasy  
village with a hydraulic dragon!

Michelle

On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Markus Montola <Markus.Montola at uta.fi>  
wrote:

> In the Nordic countries the most interesting larp meeting is the  
> Knutpunkt (a.k.a. Solmukohta). The thing is that very few larps are  
> played in the convention itself, since high-end larps are not easy  
> to stage in that environment. I mean -- if you want to spend a week  
> in a fantasy village with a hydraulic dragon (www.dragonbane.org),  
> or a weekend on a city square full of trash and societal problems (www.systemdanmarc.dk 
> ), it does not easily fit into a convention/festival program.

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 00:47:09 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 06:47:09 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <66E60B78-0C13-42C3-B288-0A8B3A3C0BEE@gmail.com>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<20090903010116.22994bor8ad9tkq8@imp2.uta.fi>
	<66E60B78-0C13-42C3-B288-0A8B3A3C0BEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909022147i45e6620ejf7d6b4a4c6cfc3e@mail.gmail.com>

A few quick things before running to the school for the second wave of kids
starting the new school year :

1) I really like where this thread is going ! Lots of good ideas flying here
and there.
2) Brooke, if you're really interested into providing some "experimental
music" for the next ARGFest, I might know someone that could point you
towards some concepts worth exploring. Let me know !

2009/9/3 Michelle Senderhauf <varineq at gmail.com>

> I know one thing - I definitely want to spend a week in a fantasy village
> with a hydraulic dragon!
>
> Michelle
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Markus Montola <Markus.Montola at uta.fi> wrote:
>
>  In the Nordic countries the most interesting larp meeting is the Knutpunkt
>> (a.k.a. Solmukohta). The thing is that very few larps are played in the
>> convention itself, since high-end larps are not easy to stage in that
>> environment. I mean -- if you want to spend a week in a fantasy village with
>> a hydraulic dragon (www.dragonbane.org), or a weekend on a city square
>> full of trash and societal problems (www.systemdanmarc.dk), it does not
>> easily fit into a convention/festival program.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From Markus.Montola at uta.fi  Thu Sep  3 03:20:00 2009
From: Markus.Montola at uta.fi (Markus Montola)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:20:00 +0300
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term +
 ARG/larp
In-Reply-To: <19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
	<19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>

>> But fundamentally, I suppose, the question is: "what do you need  
>> the umbrella for?"
>> Werewolf and Art of H3ist are certainly both social games, but I  
>> don't see why they should fit under the same umbrella in most cases.
>
> I'll make a counter argument that an umbrella does matter.

Yeah, I totally agree. What I meant was that your choice of umbrella  
depends on where you aim at. :-)

> Conceptually, we understand that a puzzle hunt is different than a
> LARP is different than an ARG is different than a "Big" Game.
> Yet, we still are left with the question:
> Do they represent forms within that umbrella?  Do they represent styles?
> What attributes do they all share?

Yes, precisely. That's very much what we do with what we call  
"pervasive games" in our book Pervasive Games. We discuss games that  
defy the usual way of games being situated in a discreet spatial,  
temporal and social context. And then we look into that umbrella. And  
what do we have in there? ARGs, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts,  
assassin games, big games, Come Out and Play style games, The Game  
treasure hunts, street larps... Stuff from The Amazing Race to Mystery  
on the Fifth Avenue and everything in between.

(And on the fringes there's stuff from flash mobs to BASE jumping,  
trainsurfing and urban exploration.)

But, that might just be a little bit too broad umbrella for whatever  
you need one for.

> Is a sufficiently well-designed ARG indistinguishable from a LARP (or
> a Puzzle Hunt)?
> (If not, how?)

Personally -- having been in Nordic larp scene for 15 years -- I think  
one defining criterion of role-playing and larp is a character that is  
separate from the player. I'm now Conan the Barbarian, not Markus the  
Researcher.

However, in our pervasive larp (ARG-Larp hybrids in some sense)  
experiments (Prosopopeia and Momentum), we have experimented on  
various double life strategies and mixing of these personas. One of  
the phenomena is that even if you play Christopher Amherst in a game,  
the "real" Christopher Amherst starts to differ from the "game"  
version early on -- one of them pretends to believe and the other does  
believe, which makes them very different. Hence, your character is a  
reflection of yourself, but you again role-play a character.

I think you would be interested in more about Prosopopeia and  
Momentum. Here's a few links if you are interested.

  - http://users.tkk.fi/~mmontola/prosopopeiakp06.pdf
  - http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/lifelike_jonsson.pdf
  - http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/lifelike_stenros.pdf


Best,

  - Markus Montola

From bclark at gmdstudios.com  Thu Sep  3 10:23:24 2009
From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:23:24 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term +
	ARG/larp
In-Reply-To: <20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com><4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com><20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi><19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <D6E84FDF669243449C5C4D42BE81A83A@Tricorder>

This is an important discussion, so let me dive in with you guys.

>From a definition standpoint, my concern is when some of the labels stretch
a familiar concept into unrecognizable territory. I find "pervasive gaming"
challenging because of the edge cases that require the broadest possible
definition of "game". Similarly, "transmedia" gives me concerns because how
the ends up trying to define ringing telephones and live events as "media".
Even "interactive storytelling" can suffer from over-generalization of
everything into "story". That doesn't mean that I don't find these terms
valuable in discussions with other practitioners (they certainly identify
buckets), but are they the desired umbrella term?

Or stated another way: as long as you could imagine someone having to
describe their work as "interactive transmedia storytelling" or "pervasive
transmedia gaming" or some other combination of the labels, then we haven't
hit the umbrella yet. If you could imagine someone saying "that's more
transmedia than it is interactive storytelling," then we haven't hit the
umbrella yet.

Or maybe ARG is a platypus.


-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Markus Montola
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:20 AM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG; Christopher Amherst
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term +
ARG/larp

>> But fundamentally, I suppose, the question is: "what do you need  
>> the umbrella for?"
>> Werewolf and Art of H3ist are certainly both social games, but I  
>> don't see why they should fit under the same umbrella in most cases.
>
> I'll make a counter argument that an umbrella does matter.

Yeah, I totally agree. What I meant was that your choice of umbrella  
depends on where you aim at. :-)

> Conceptually, we understand that a puzzle hunt is different than a
> LARP is different than an ARG is different than a "Big" Game.
> Yet, we still are left with the question:
> Do they represent forms within that umbrella?  Do they represent styles?
> What attributes do they all share?

Yes, precisely. That's very much what we do with what we call  
"pervasive games" in our book Pervasive Games. We discuss games that  
defy the usual way of games being situated in a discreet spatial,  
temporal and social context. And then we look into that umbrella. And  
what do we have in there? ARGs, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts,  
assassin games, big games, Come Out and Play style games, The Game  
treasure hunts, street larps... Stuff from The Amazing Race to Mystery  
on the Fifth Avenue and everything in between.

(And on the fringes there's stuff from flash mobs to BASE jumping,  
trainsurfing and urban exploration.)

But, that might just be a little bit too broad umbrella for whatever  
you need one for.

> Is a sufficiently well-designed ARG indistinguishable from a LARP (or
> a Puzzle Hunt)?
> (If not, how?)

Personally -- having been in Nordic larp scene for 15 years -- I think  
one defining criterion of role-playing and larp is a character that is  
separate from the player. I'm now Conan the Barbarian, not Markus the  
Researcher.

However, in our pervasive larp (ARG-Larp hybrids in some sense)  
experiments (Prosopopeia and Momentum), we have experimented on  
various double life strategies and mixing of these personas. One of  
the phenomena is that even if you play Christopher Amherst in a game,  
the "real" Christopher Amherst starts to differ from the "game"  
version early on -- one of them pretends to believe and the other does  
believe, which makes them very different. Hence, your character is a  
reflection of yourself, but you again role-play a character.

I think you would be interested in more about Prosopopeia and  
Momentum. Here's a few links if you are interested.

  - http://users.tkk.fi/~mmontola/prosopopeiakp06.pdf
  - http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/lifelike_jonsson.pdf
  - http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/lifelike_stenros.pdf


Best,

  - Markus Montola
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From camherst at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:05:39 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:05:39 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <C6C43692.17CBE%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<C6C43692.17CBE%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>
Message-ID: <19849af80909031405jccb0ed7xa54102fa331c014f@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I think that a "play" festival would have two possible effects:
1) Frustrate players because it is difficult to encapsulate all the
nuances of a long-term interactive narrative, unless the festival was
just a "launch" event for several productions or the ARG had built-in
an "event" at the festival.

2) Has the potential of forcing developers, designers, and writers to
distill their narratives into intense experiences because of the
likely time constraints.  Ie. "You have 4 - 6 hours to get people in
and out of Wonderland"   It would also likely launch the "micro-ARG"
format.

Yes, I agree if you program it closer to a Sundance Film Festival
rather than a Comic-Con, it would have a stronger appeal to me on a
professional level.  More so, if some of the experiences at the
Festival gave us creative types a chance to ponder how we could
integrate that activity in some later production.

Chris


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Michael Monello<mmonello at campfirenyc.com> wrote:
> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play, where you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences? What would that look like and how would it work?
>
> I was thinking about the discussion on the evolution of ARGFest and I kept going back to the fact that ARGFest is really a conference focused on talking about ARGs, and what's needed is a Festival, where we can go and play them. It could have panels as well, like a film festival, but the panels would be in context of the experiences going on at the festival.
>
> Is there any value in something like that?
>
> -Mike
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From camherst at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:12:41 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:12:41 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>
Message-ID: <19849af80909031412y49f8339ej59fa637523ce4b83@mail.gmail.com>

Brooke,

If I recall, IO9 had an article on "Hacking at Random 2009", which
discussed a silent dancehall
where all the dancers had headphones

(Article at: http://io9.com/5339096/live-as-if-you-are-already-in-the-future-at-hacker-camp/gallery/
)

Think we all could do one better?

Chris


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Brooke Thompson<brooke at giantmice.com> wrote:
> In my mind, it would look something like this...
>
> A series of presentations and case studies - some post-mortems, some
> introductions. Running along side this or, perhaps, adjacent to it, would be
> a lot of activities. Some would be fairly stand-alone sorts of things like
> the Hidden Park game or other Augmented Reality type things. Others would be
> ongoing types of things - like local geocaches. Still others might be live
> events for currently running campaigns such as we've seen happen at
> comic-con (or using a different TDK/WSS example, there could be a political
> rally for Harvey Dent). I think it would be great to reach out to people
> working in the urban gaming area, as well - maybe get a city-wide scavenger
> hunt or two going on. There may be deeper character interactions, similar to
> what John mentioned (or akin to the activities we've done in Eldritch where
> players spend an extended amount of time with characters - who, funny he
> should mention LARPs, we've often cast out of LARP troupes).
>
> It would be a large mix of games and experiences. Some things would be time
> specific and some might require sign-up. These things could be registered
> for online and at some sort of ARG HQ which would also have some breakout
> areas for impromptu presentations and whatnots. All of this would be
> documented on some sort of big board and/or website so people have an idea
> of what's going on when & where. The trick, in my opinion, is to have a wide
> variety of experiences without having so many that it's complete chaos. And,
> of course, some "control" by listing official events (because you just know
> some would want it to appear less "scripted" and want to be off the grid -
> that's ok, but if too many do it, it gets confusing and was this for game x
> or game y).
>
> Oh! and of course there has to be a huge crazy party. Maybe with some
> costuming. Possibly with some roaming characters. Definitely with some
> insane electronic augmented music sort of something or other.
>
> (admittedly, I have been thinking about this a lot lately because of ARGFest
> 2010 planning... hinthint... keep the ideas rolling ;))
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:51 PM, John Evans wrote:
>>
>> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,
>> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like Live
>> Action Roleplaying without character sheets. ?That's not a criticism, of
>> course, I'm all for LARPing.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>>
>>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play, where
>>> you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences? What would that
>>> look like and how would it work?
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From brooke at giantmice.com  Thu Sep  3 18:56:51 2009
From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:56:51 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <19849af80909031412y49f8339ej59fa637523ce4b83@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>
	<19849af80909031412y49f8339ej59fa637523ce4b83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C223836C-4129-45D4-B2D8-028D2AEA57CE@giantmice.com>

That's really cool!

I have this utter fascination with collaborative music. I have never  
been able to figure out why because I don't have a musical bone in my  
body. Yet, when I'm bored or when I need to force my brain to work on  
something else - I almost always default to brainstorming various  
musical sorts of things.

For example, one idea from back in the grad school days (which would  
be so much easier now with iphones and whatnots) is using a cellphone  
to log into a system that would let you choose an instrument and  
dancer and, then, join a symphony that plays out on a big projection.  
You use the number pad to play music and your little dancer dances to  
the beat and rhythm of the music you're playing on your phone. As you  
play higher notes, maybe it goes to the right of the big screen. As  
you play more rapidly, maybe it goes higher. Whatever.  As long as  
you're playing he's dancing and moving to the beat and sound. But your  
dancer isn't the only dancer there. Everyone else that's logged in  
also has a dancer on the screen. The music that you are making is  
projected to the audience . Now, what does that sound like? Will  
people fall into a beat with each other? Will they be able to make  
music or will it just be this strange cacophony?

There's something that fascinates me about that idea from a public and  
collaborative play perspective. I've got less noisy headache making  
ideas, though, too. Most tend to revolve around the visuals that  
accompany the sound. Some also bring in tactile objects - some aren't  
very practical (like beach balls that as they're passed around an  
audience change the visuals based on the where the ball was hit - the  
color and width of the color. I'd imagine the lifespan of those would  
be about a minute and a half. still cool, though, for that minute and  
a half).

Few, however, are as simple as a silent dance party.



On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Christopher Amherst wrote:
> If I recall, IO9 had an article on "Hacking at Random 2009", which
> discussed a silent dancehall
> where all the dancers had headphones
>
> (Article at: http://io9.com/5339096/live-as-if-you-are-already-in-the-future-at-hacker-camp/gallery/
> )
>
> Think we all could do one better?
>
> Chris



From tassos_stevens at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 07:47:55 2009
From: tassos_stevens at yahoo.co.uk (Tassos Stevens)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:47:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <19849af80909031412y49f8339ej59fa637523ce4b83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <497644.65500.qm@web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Silent Disco is a regular and popular event in the UK. 

Coney's Shoreditch Ball Park used their wireless headphones for a little 'audio tour of the future', repeated on loop to get new players into the story during the big outdoor game finale.

--- On Thu, 3/9/09, Christopher Amherst <camherst at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Christopher Amherst <camherst at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
To: "Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG" <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Date: Thursday, 3 September, 2009, 10:12 PM

Brooke,

If I recall, IO9 had an article on "Hacking at Random 2009", which
discussed a silent dancehall
where all the dancers had headphones

(Article at: http://io9.com/5339096/live-as-if-you-are-already-in-the-future-at-hacker-camp/gallery/
)

Think we all could do one better?

Chris


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Brooke Thompson<brooke at giantmice.com> wrote:
> In my mind, it would look something like this...
>
> A series of presentations and case studies - some post-mortems, some
> introductions. Running along side this or, perhaps, adjacent to it, would be
> a lot of activities. Some would be fairly stand-alone sorts of things like
> the Hidden Park game or other Augmented Reality type things. Others would be
> ongoing types of things - like local geocaches. Still others might be live
> events for currently running campaigns such as we've seen happen at
> comic-con (or using a different TDK/WSS example, there could be a political
> rally for Harvey Dent). I think it would be great to reach out to people
> working in the urban gaming area, as well - maybe get a city-wide scavenger
> hunt or two going on. There may be deeper character interactions, similar to
> what John mentioned (or akin to the activities we've done in Eldritch where
> players spend an extended amount of time with characters - who, funny he
> should mention LARPs, we've often cast out of LARP troupes).
>
> It would be a large mix of games and experiences. Some things would be time
> specific and some might require sign-up. These things could be registered
> for online and at some sort of ARG HQ which would also have some breakout
> areas for impromptu presentations and whatnots. All of this would be
> documented on some sort of big board and/or website so people have an idea
> of what's going on when & where. The trick, in my opinion, is to have a wide
> variety of experiences without having so many that it's complete chaos. And,
> of course, some "control" by listing official events (because you just know
> some would want it to appear less "scripted" and want to be off the grid -
> that's ok, but if too many do it, it gets confusing and was this for game x
> or game y).
>
> Oh! and of course there has to be a huge crazy party. Maybe with some
> costuming. Possibly with some roaming characters. Definitely with some
> insane electronic augmented music sort of something or other.
>
> (admittedly, I have been thinking about this a lot lately because of ARGFest
> 2010 planning... hinthint... keep the ideas rolling ;))
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:51 PM, John Evans wrote:
>>
>> So people would attend this event, interact with story characters,
>> interact with each other, solve puzzles...Basically it sounds like Live
>> Action Roleplaying without character sheets.  That's not a criticism, of
>> course, I'm all for LARPing.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>>
>>> What if ARGs had a festival, ala Fringe Fest or Come Out and Play, where
>>> you could actually go and have ARG or ARG-like experiences? What would that
>>> look like and how would it work?
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss



      

From camherst at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 08:57:21 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:57:21 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term +
	ARG/larp
In-Reply-To: <20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
	<19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <19849af80909040557i29af0d55ob925077bef1c5527@mail.gmail.com>

I remarked:
>> Conceptually, we understand that a puzzle hunt is different than a
>> LARP is different than an ARG is different than a "Big" Game.
>> Yet, we still are left with the question:
>> Do they represent forms within that umbrella? ?Do they represent styles?
>> What attributes do they all share?

Markus responded:
> Yes, precisely. That's very much what we do with what we call "pervasive
> games" in our book Pervasive Games. We discuss games that defy the usual way
> of games being situated in a discreet spatial, temporal and social context.
> And then we look into that umbrella. And what do we have in there? ARGs,
> treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, assassin games, big games, Come Out and
> Play style games, The Game treasure hunts, street larps... Stuff from The
> Amazing Race to Mystery on the Fifth Avenue and everything in between.
>
> (And on the fringes there's stuff from flash mobs to BASE jumping,
> trainsurfing and urban exploration.)

Perhaps we need a simpler definition of what a game is.

If we include flash mobs and urban exploration, we could go back to
Brian's remark on Nathan Shedroff's work
and what we are really talking about are experiences.  More a
narrative or interactive meme in that case.

I wrote:
>> Is a sufficiently well-designed ARG indistinguishable from a LARP (or
>> a Puzzle Hunt)?
>> (If not, how?)

Markus noted:
> Personally -- having been in Nordic larp scene for 15 years -- I think one
> defining criterion of role-playing and larp is a character that is separate
> from the player. I'm now Conan the Barbarian, not Markus the Researcher.

True, but I believe that part of that is because of the cultural
precedents in the art-form.
To some degree (unlike ARGs typically), there is an implicit agreement
between both the players and the non-player personas
that they are all behind the curtain.

That there is no "wall" between their shared reality.

> However, in our pervasive larp (ARG-Larp hybrids in some sense) experiments
> (Prosopopeia and Momentum), we have experimented on various double life
> strategies and mixing of these personas. One of the phenomena is that even
> if you play Christopher Amherst in a game, the "real" Christopher Amherst
> starts to differ from the "game" version early on -- one of them pretends to
> believe and the other does believe, which makes them very different. Hence,
> your character is a reflection of yourself, but you again role-play a
> character.

Cognitively, if you enter an medieval camp with a hydraulic dragon,
you know explicitly it's not real.

However, I'd be curious whether this divergence is just an artifact of
how the player's mind processes a narrative that happens in real life
/ real time space, so as to maintain some sense of boundaries.

Chris

From camherst at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 10:05:00 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:05:00 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term +
	ARG/larp
In-Reply-To: <D6E84FDF669243449C5C4D42BE81A83A@Tricorder>
References: <8df0b9e20909010710l6fd1c0ccw7f7b2fdeb11ba3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ca6fcda0909021024g57920cf3p9c2414ed62393713@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903011253.34203zz4incvrncw@imp2.uta.fi>
	<19849af80909021659k24ec8e54j899566ccd5a979b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090903102000.49155ydoe5gwcw84@imp1.uta.fi>
	<D6E84FDF669243449C5C4D42BE81A83A@Tricorder>
Message-ID: <19849af80909040705m6054bf4x2d02cd467fcbd702@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Brian Clark<bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:
> This is an important discussion, so let me dive in with you guys.
>
> >From a definition standpoint, my concern is when some of the labels stretch
> a familiar concept into unrecognizable territory. I find "pervasive gaming"
> challenging because of the edge cases that require the broadest possible
> definition of "game". Similarly, "transmedia" gives me concerns because how
> the ends up trying to define ringing telephones and live events as "media".
> Even "interactive storytelling" can suffer from over-generalization of
> everything into "story". That doesn't mean that I don't find these terms
> valuable in discussions with other practitioners (they certainly identify
> buckets), but are they the desired umbrella term?

Pervasive may be a misnomer.  To a player, it's not pervasive.  It
only touches their life and experiences at a couple of points.

Could Pervasive be a more apt description for the medium that the game
(or experience) plays out _in_?
Making pervasive an equivalency to transmedia or cross-media or
convergent, otherwise it merely becomes shorthand for describing an
experience that is super-imposed in a real time / real world
environment.

For story or narrative, perhaps that is more a quality or attribute of
the experience.  That the experience contains elements of narrative.
(Andrea P. in her blog post on January 13, 2009 uses an attribute
"Story Archaeology")

This doesn't mean that a simple game doesn't have a story after the
fact.  When you're 5, Candy Land is just the vehicle to some story in
your imagination describing the game play (usually during and after).

> Or stated another way: as long as you could imagine someone having to
> describe their work as "interactive transmedia storytelling" or "pervasive
> transmedia gaming" or some other combination of the labels, then we haven't
> hit the umbrella yet. If you could imagine someone saying "that's more
> transmedia than it is interactive storytelling," then we haven't hit the
> umbrella yet.

To me, the stumbling block is the interactive / game.  Is it an
attribute, a quality, or a genre?
Perhaps, it is just a fixed quality.  The audience knows it's a game,
they don't necessarily know the "rules" per se.

"I design [Transmedia Escapism | Transmedia Experiences | Pervasive
Escapism]" seems a bit flat.


> Or maybe ARG is a platypus.

Probably should propose that as a mascot for the next ARGFest or the
future SIG conference/festival.

Chris

From camherst at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 10:39:04 2009
From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:39:04 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] What if ARGs had a real festival?
In-Reply-To: <C223836C-4129-45D4-B2D8-028D2AEA57CE@giantmice.com>
References: <13420073.1251921088050.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<40D1D895-9346-4439-9961-C8DC53258761@giantmice.com>
	<19849af80909031412y49f8339ej59fa637523ce4b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<C223836C-4129-45D4-B2D8-028D2AEA57CE@giantmice.com>
Message-ID: <19849af80909040739y41e47226p9f3fb0ea53866d3d@mail.gmail.com>

I could see integrating the concept of the silent dancehall with
various styles of collaboration.

(If I remember there are LED dance floors that respond to the movement
of people.)

DJs could be coded to a specific orchestra "section", dance steps on
an interactive floor could translate movement into
notes and one could get feedback by some visual display (with the
collective visuals feed into a less silent dancehall)

(You could also skip the DJs and let the dancers hear their collective "sound")



On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Brooke Thompson<brooke at giantmice.com> wrote:
> That's really cool!
>
> I have this utter fascination with collaborative music. I have never been
> able to figure out why because I don't have a musical bone in my body. Yet,
> when I'm bored or when I need to force my brain to work on something else -
> I almost always default to brainstorming various musical sorts of things.
>
> For example, one idea from back in the grad school days (which would be so
> much easier now with iphones and whatnots) is using a cellphone to log into
> a system that would let you choose an instrument and dancer and, then, join
> a symphony that plays out on a big projection. You use the number pad to
> play music and your little dancer dances to the beat and rhythm of the music
> you're playing on your phone. As you play higher notes, maybe it goes to the
> right of the big screen. As you play more rapidly, maybe it goes higher.
> Whatever. ?As long as you're playing he's dancing and moving to the beat and
> sound. But your dancer isn't the only dancer there. Everyone else that's
> logged in also has a dancer on the screen. The music that you are making is
> projected to the audience . Now, what does that sound like? Will people fall
> into a beat with each other? Will they be able to make music or will it just
> be this strange cacophony?
>
> There's something that fascinates me about that idea from a public and
> collaborative play perspective. I've got less noisy headache making ideas,
> though, too. Most tend to revolve around the visuals that accompany the
> sound. Some also bring in tactile objects - some aren't very practical (like
> beach balls that as they're passed around an audience change the visuals
> based on the where the ball was hit - the color and width of the color. I'd
> imagine the lifespan of those would be about a minute and a half. still
> cool, though, for that minute and a half).
>
> Few, however, are as simple as a silent dance party.
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Christopher Amherst wrote:
>>
>> If I recall, IO9 had an article on "Hacking at Random 2009", which
>> discussed a silent dancehall
>> where all the dancers had headphones
>>
>> (Article at:
>> http://io9.com/5339096/live-as-if-you-are-already-in-the-future-at-hacker-camp/gallery/
>> )
>>
>> Think we all could do one better?
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From mandersen at argn.com  Sun Sep  6 23:48:27 2009
From: mandersen at argn.com (Michael Andersen)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:48:27 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Japanese IGDA ARG SIG Blog
Message-ID: <b8fd5f7a0909062048v2142b6c7oe428a182f0acc0f@mail.gmail.com>

Just came across this, and wasn't sure if this is a case of the right hand
not talking to the left, but apparently the Japanese IGDA ARG SIG has just
started a blog, unless my Japanese has atrophied even further than I
thought.  Looks exciting, especially as the sidebar lists currently running
campaigns, as well as the three games that have already finished.

Website:  http://igdaj-arg.blogspot.com/
Twitter:   http://twitter.com/ARG_INFO

--------------------------
Michael Andersen

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 10:15:54 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:15:54 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] When the IRC chat cometh
In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0908232331l6be2fe65s587adcd41a32f66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25de1e4f0908232331l6be2fe65s587adcd41a32f66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909070715y14376bc1u90c6712739871f44@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there everyone !

It's that time of the week again when we're going to hop online for an IRC
chat ! As per usual now, you're cordially invited to log on and join the fun
around 4PM Central, using one of the methods described at
http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats. Feel free to
stick to the topic of the week, or feel free not to - all that matters is
that you come and meet up with the usual suspects if you haven't done so
already !

All the best,
T.

From y_miyake at fromsoftware.co.jp  Thu Sep 10 02:55:24 2009
From: y_miyake at fromsoftware.co.jp (miyayou)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:24 +0900
Subject: [arg_discuss] Japanese IGDA ARG SIG Blog
References: <b8fd5f7a0909062048v2142b6c7oe428a182f0acc0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <025d01ca31e3$abc54590$d16510ac@MIYAYOU3GXP2>

Hello, Everyone.

I'm Youichiro Miyake, Japansese game developer, working in Tokyo, Japan,
and an editor of IGDA JAPAN SIG-ARG Blog with Mr.Yaeo and Mr.Epics.

Mr.Andersen, thanks to your attention to IGDA JAPAN SIG-ARG Blog.

IGDA JAPAN SIG-ARG began on July, 2009, and had been planning
the SIG-ARG Blog and SIG-ARG Seminar.
SIG-ARG seminar #1 will be held on November about Japanese ARG Ryoma.

Ryoma
 http://bb2.atbb.jp/ta_ka_mi_ya/
 http://www19.atwiki.jp/ryomathesecretstory/
(This ARG is based on the historical person: Sakamoto Ryoma
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryoma_Sakamoto
)

The organizers of Ryoma are IGDA JAPAN ARG members.

The aim of IGDA JAPAN SIG-ARG Blog is to gather all ARG informations
in Japan,and distribute them to digital and analog game developers
to make their game vision more wider and richer.

The Blog is written in Japanese, not English. Sorry...
But the IGDA JAPAN SIG-ARG wish to have communication and cooperate
with IGDA SIG-ARG community. Mr.Epics and I are members of this Mailing 
List,
and enjoy this discussions about ARG.

- If you have interesting articles in IGDA JAPAN ARG BLOG,
  I will translate them into English.
  (Please tell me the articles you want to read.)

- If you have messages you want to send to IGDA Japan,
  I will write them on  IGDA JAPAN ARG BLOG .

- If you want to write BLOG on IGDA JAPAN ARG BLOG, please tell me!

Thanks.



> Just came across this, and wasn't sure if this is a case of the right hand
> not talking to the left, but apparently the Japanese IGDA ARG SIG has just
> started a blog, unless my Japanese has atrophied even further than I
> thought.  Looks exciting, especially as the sidebar lists currently 
> running
> campaigns, as well as the three games that have already finished.
>
> Website:  http://igdaj-arg.blogspot.com/
> Twitter:   http://twitter.com/ARG_INFO
>
> --------------------------
> Michael Andersen
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss 


From jeff at nonchalance.com  Fri Sep 11 18:18:25 2009
From: jeff at nonchalance.com (Jeff Hull)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:18:25 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
In-Reply-To: <b8fd5f7a0908191857l67c67a5axf03d86c9f563fcd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fd5f7a0908191857l67c67a5axf03d86c9f563fcd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>

>

Hi Argnet Folks,
hope you can make it tonight, and you're welcome to bring friends, but  
THE EVENT IS NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.  Anyway to untwitter, or make that  
clear?

thanks,
Jeff



: :   n o n c h a l a n c e
: :   510.260.7527
: :   jeff at nonchalance.com
: :   http://about.nonchalance.com
__________________________


From agent.lex at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 18:54:17 2009
From: agent.lex at gmail.com (Agent Lex)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:54:17 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
In-Reply-To: <D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>
References: <b8fd5f7a0908191857l67c67a5axf03d86c9f563fcd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>
Message-ID: <4AAAD519.9020605@gmail.com>

Just to be clear...

Why would you announce something over twitter, an inherently public 
forum, if it's not meant to be public?

- Lex

Jeff Hull wrote:
>>
>
> Hi Argnet Folks,
> hope you can make it tonight, and you're welcome to bring friends, but 
> THE EVENT IS NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.  Anyway to untwitter, or make that 
> clear?
>
> thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
>
> : :   n o n c h a l a n c e
> : :   510.260.7527
> : :   jeff at nonchalance.com
> : :   http://about.nonchalance.com
> __________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From neekono at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 19:13:58 2009
From: neekono at gmail.com (Necole Duncan)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:13:58 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
In-Reply-To: <D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>
References: <b8fd5f7a0908191857l67c67a5axf03d86c9f563fcd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>
Message-ID: <84532ee40909111613u23c74777ne6bd2edb51d9fe41@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

What is this about? I may have missed an e-mail somewhere, but I don't
remember hearing about something going on tonight. Thanks!

Necole

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Jeff Hull <jeff at nonchalance.com> wrote:

>
>>
> Hi Argnet Folks,
> hope you can make it tonight, and you're welcome to bring friends, but THE
> EVENT IS NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.  Anyway to untwitter, or make that clear?
>
> thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
>
> : :   n o n c h a l a n c e
> : :   510.260.7527
> : :   jeff at nonchalance.com
> : :   http://about.nonchalance.com
> __________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 03:05:54 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:05:54 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
In-Reply-To: <84532ee40909111613u23c74777ne6bd2edb51d9fe41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fd5f7a0908191857l67c67a5axf03d86c9f563fcd6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<D883C065-EBF6-4AB5-ABFC-E147F53D9CFF@nonchalance.com>
	<84532ee40909111613u23c74777ne6bd2edb51d9fe41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909120005j436ddcf1of51bf9d49eac73e7@mail.gmail.com>

Likewise. Very curious about it now though !
T.

2009/9/12 Necole Duncan <neekono at gmail.com>

> Jeff,
>
> What is this about? I may have missed an e-mail somewhere, but I don't
> remember hearing about something going on tonight. Thanks!
>
> Necole
>

From btradish at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 12 10:57:50 2009
From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:57:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
Message-ID: <1430206.1252767471332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hmmm, I've never seen a trailhead like that before...

--
John Evans
Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas Maillioux <thomas.maillioux at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 3:05 AM
>To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] the Twitter announce
>
>Likewise. Very curious about it now though !
>T.
>
>2009/9/12 Necole Duncan <neekono at gmail.com>
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> What is this about? I may have missed an e-mail somewhere, but I don't
>> remember hearing about something going on tonight. Thanks!
>>
>> Necole
>>
>_______________________________________________
>ARG_Discuss mailing list
>ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 13:50:18 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:50:18 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
Message-ID: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>

This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
done.

So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From andres at jengibre.com.ar  Mon Sep 14 14:01:56 2009
From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:01:56 -0300
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50c963550909141101m72f6ee96h14156614e830808c@mail.gmail.com>

A guy who used to be #1 in the world tennis ranking said "95%
transpiration, 5% inspiration"

You can be a genious, but you can't be ONLY a genious, even geniuses
have to work!

On the other side, without that 5% you'll have to work veeeery hard

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
> done.
>
> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?

From judy.tyrer at redstorm.com  Mon Sep 14 14:28:47 2009
From: judy.tyrer at redstorm.com (Judy Tyrer)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:28:47 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>

I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to be actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the doing of the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You can't just watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively involved in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you are working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At least, that's been my experience.  

Judy 

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?

This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
done.

So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From dflor71 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 15:02:03 2009
From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:02:03 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14:
	Perspiration	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
Message-ID: <4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>

I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them 
later. If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some 
of those rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.

I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the spot. 
Most of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the bus, 
at 3am while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I 
pretty much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also 
have a set on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).

Judy Tyrer wrote:
> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to be actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the doing of the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You can't just watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively involved in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you are working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At least, that's been my experience.  
>
> Judy 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?
>
> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
> done.
>
> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
>
>   

From yomzz at yomster.com  Tue Sep 15 11:09:35 2009
From: yomzz at yomster.com (Yoms)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:09:35 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Invitation to private screening of Breathe - London.
Message-ID: <4AAFAE2F.2070800@yomster.com>

Hey all,

Sorry for lurking for such a long time, but work has been hectic for the 
past year since I started developing this project.

Anyhow, I'd like to invite you to the first live screening of Breathe... 
the interactive murder mystery film experience by moi, Yomi Ayeni.

This event is hosted by Power to the Pixel's Cross-Media Film Forum at 
the Times BFI London Film Festival on 14 October in the Council Chamber, 
County Hall, London.

Breathe? comprises of three short films made up of scripted narrative, 
live events & online interactions. The experience lasts for 15 days with 
a weekly film instalment.

Ticket are free: http://breathewithme.eventbrite.com/

Background
A young man is found dead in bed, ex-vice cop John Franks is pulled away 
from his desk job to investigate. It seems like an open and shut case ? 
except that it isn?t the first death of this kind. Pathologist reports 
suggest each victim had been asphyxiated, but there are no strangle 
marks, signs of struggle or evidence of a drug overdose ? ?someone 
wanted it to look as if each person had just run out of air whilst 
asleep in bed.?

Sign up to follow Breathe: www.breathewith.me

Breathe was conceived and produced by Yomi Ayeni. Episode One is 
directed by BAFTA winner Andy Wilson (Gormenghast - BBC, Cracker - ITV, 
Forsythe Saga - ITV), written by Andrew Brown (The Wonderland 
Experience), and Nicholas McInerny - script consultant (The Bill - ITV).

The cast includes Ben Taylor (Phantom Menace, The Young Indiana Jones, 
Breaking into Tesco), Liz Kettle (Poirot, Jeeves and Wooster, Secret 
Life of Mrs Beeton) and Andrew Robertson (Gormenghast, Far From China).

Thanks for the inspiring chatter, and support.

We are almost 'good to go!'

Yomi "Yoms" Ayeni
Creative Lead, Expanding Universe. London


From naomi.alderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 16:57:00 2009
From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:57:00 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>

I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
*jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
roughly what you said?)

It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit and
type and type and hope that something comes out.

Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.

- Naomi



On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them later.
> If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of those
> rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
>
> I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the spot. Most
> of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the bus, at 3am
> while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I pretty
> much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also have a set
> on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
>
> Judy Tyrer wrote:
>>
>> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to be
>> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes. ?It is in the doing of
>> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow. ?You can't just
>> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration. ?You have to be actively involved
>> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you are
>> working. ?Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess. ?At least, that's
>> been my experience.
>> Judy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]
>> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
>> Inspiration?
>>
>> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
>> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
>> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
>> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
>> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
>> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
>> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
>> done.
>>
>> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
>> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From judy.tyrer at redstorm.com  Tue Sep 15 17:35:32 2009
From: judy.tyrer at redstorm.com (Judy Tyrer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:35:32 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>

I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on the drive home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for hours at a time.  It's inevitable.

As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes in the morning upon first waking up.  

I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at night.  I can't code in the morning.

Judy

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?

I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
*jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
roughly what you said?)

It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit and
type and type and hope that something comes out.

Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.

- Naomi



On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them later.
> If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of those
> rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
>
> I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the spot. Most
> of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the bus, at 3am
> while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I pretty
> much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also have a set
> on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
>
> Judy Tyrer wrote:
>>
>> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to be
>> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes. ?It is in the doing of
>> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow. ?You can't just
>> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration. ?You have to be actively involved
>> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you are
>> working. ?Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess. ?At least, that's
>> been my experience.
>> Judy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]
>> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
>> Inspiration?
>>
>> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
>> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
>> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
>> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
>> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
>> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
>> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
>> done.
>>
>> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
>> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From bbakiogl at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 17:42:02 2009
From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:42:02 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
Message-ID: <d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>

Inspiration comes to me in odd occasions... like when I am hiking, swimming,
taking a shower, shopping... But executing that inspiration is a hell of a
lot of work and requires much hair pulling and discomfort. When I get an
idea I am always under the false impression that it is going to be easy to
execute/write, when I start the writing process I wonder what the hell I was
thinking earlier. And I don't really believe in anyone who says this is an
easy process, seriously, I've been writing for over a decade and it ain't
getting any easier.

burcu

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Judy Tyrer <judy.tyrer at redstorm.com> wrote:

> I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on the drive
> home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for hours at a
> time.  It's inevitable.
>
> As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes in the
> morning upon first waking up.
>
> I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at night.  I
> can't code in the morning.
>
> Judy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> Inspiration?
>
> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
> roughly what you said?)
>
> It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
> little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
> difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
> walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
> I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit and
> type and type and hope that something comes out.
>
> Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
> very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
> recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
> musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
> fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
> peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
> up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
> just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.
>
> - Naomi
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them
> later.
> > If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of those
> > rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
> >
> > I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the spot.
> Most
> > of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the bus, at
> 3am
> > while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I pretty
> > much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also have a
> set
> > on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
> >
> > Judy Tyrer wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to
> be
> >> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the doing
> of
> >> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You can't just
> >> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively
> involved
> >> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you
> are
> >> working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At least,
> that's
> >> been my experience.
> >> Judy
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org
> ]
> >> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
> >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
> >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> >> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> >> Inspiration?
> >>
> >> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
> >> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
> >> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
> >> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
> >> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
> >> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
> >> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
> >> done.
> >>
> >> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
> >> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARG_Discuss mailing list
> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> >
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



-- 
Thanks,</burcu>

Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.

http://www.palefirer.com
http://palefirer.com/blog/
Skype: PaleFireR
AIM: PaleFireR

--
"Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."

From judy.tyrer at redstorm.com  Tue Sep 15 18:32:46 2009
From: judy.tyrer at redstorm.com (Judy Tyrer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:32:46 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFDE5@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>

I used to figure skate.  I consider it the quintessential metaphor for life.  And one of the things that it taught me is that you know you're doing it right when it becomes easy.  I've taken that into writing quite effectively.  When I'm doing it right, the writing flows.  It's just how much doing it wrong it takes to get to doing it right.  

But in fiction, the hours and hours and hours of creating fully developed characters pays off when you sit down and they start spewing out the greatest jokes that I could never think of if I sat down to write jokes.  So when it's hard, I usually know I'm doing something wrong.  Usually it's because the character doesn't want to go that way or the story has decided to take a turn I'm resisting it.  

So I sort of disagree.  It really IS easy, it's just really hard to make it so easy.

Judy

-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Burcu Bakioglu
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:42 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?

Inspiration comes to me in odd occasions... like when I am hiking, swimming,
taking a shower, shopping... But executing that inspiration is a hell of a
lot of work and requires much hair pulling and discomfort. When I get an
idea I am always under the false impression that it is going to be easy to
execute/write, when I start the writing process I wonder what the hell I was
thinking earlier. And I don't really believe in anyone who says this is an
easy process, seriously, I've been writing for over a decade and it ain't
getting any easier.

burcu

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Judy Tyrer <judy.tyrer at redstorm.com> wrote:

> I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on the drive
> home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for hours at a
> time.  It's inevitable.
>
> As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes in the
> morning upon first waking up.
>
> I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at night.  I
> can't code in the morning.
>
> Judy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> Inspiration?
>
> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
> roughly what you said?)
>
> It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
> little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
> difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
> walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
> I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit and
> type and type and hope that something comes out.
>
> Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
> very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
> recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
> musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
> fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
> peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
> up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
> just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.
>
> - Naomi
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them
> later.
> > If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of those
> > rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
> >
> > I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the spot.
> Most
> > of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the bus, at
> 3am
> > while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I pretty
> > much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also have a
> set
> > on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
> >
> > Judy Tyrer wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you have to
> be
> >> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the doing
> of
> >> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You can't just
> >> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively
> involved
> >> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in which you
> are
> >> working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At least,
> that's
> >> been my experience.
> >> Judy
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org
> ]
> >> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
> >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
> >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> >> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> >> Inspiration?
> >>
> >> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
> >> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
> >> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work (writing
> >> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work will
> >> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the apocryphal
> >> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea comes
> >> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until it's
> >> done.
> >>
> >> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other? Someplace
> >> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARG_Discuss mailing list
> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> >
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



-- 
Thanks,</burcu>

Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.

http://www.palefirer.com
http://palefirer.com/blog/
Skype: PaleFireR
AIM: PaleFireR

--
"Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Tue Sep 15 19:30:32 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:30:32 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>

Didn't you just tweet that you are under deadline for an article?

;)

Mike
http://www.campfirenyc.com/
Sent from a smart(-ish) phone.

On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:05 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" <bbakiogl at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Inspiration comes to me in odd occasions... like when I am hiking,  
> swimming,
> taking a shower, shopping... But executing that inspiration is a  
> hell of a
> lot of work and requires much hair pulling and discomfort. When I  
> get an
> idea I am always under the false impression that it is going to be  
> easy to
> execute/write, when I start the writing process I wonder what the  
> hell I was
> thinking earlier. And I don't really believe in anyone who says this  
> is an
> easy process, seriously, I've been writing for over a decade and it  
> ain't
> getting any easier.
>
> burcu
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Judy Tyrer  
> <judy.tyrer at redstorm.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on  
>> the drive
>> home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for  
>> hours at a
>> time.  It's inevitable.
>>
>> As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes  
>> in the
>> morning upon first waking up.
>>
>> I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at  
>> night.  I
>> can't code in the morning.
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- 
>> bounces at igda.org]
>> On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration  
>> or
>> Inspiration?
>>
>> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
>> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
>> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
>> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
>> roughly what you said?)
>>
>> It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
>> little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
>> difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
>> walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
>> I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit  
>> and
>> type and type and hope that something comes out.
>>
>> Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
>> very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
>> recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
>> musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
>> fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
>> peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
>> up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
>> just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.
>>
>> - Naomi
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them
>> later.
>>> If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of  
>>> those
>>> rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
>>>
>>> I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the  
>>> spot.
>> Most
>>> of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the  
>>> bus, at
>> 3am
>>> while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I  
>>> pretty
>>> much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also  
>>> have a
>> set
>>> on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
>>>
>>> Judy Tyrer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you  
>>>> have to
>> be
>>>> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the  
>>>> doing
>> of
>>>> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You  
>>>> can't just
>>>> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively
>> involved
>>>> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in  
>>>> which you
>> are
>>>> working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At  
>>>> least,
>> that's
>>>> been my experience.
>>>> Judy
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- 
>>>> bounces at igda.org
>> ]
>>>> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
>>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
>>>> Inspiration?
>>>>
>>>> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
>>>> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
>>>> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work  
>>>> (writing
>>>> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work  
>>>> will
>>>> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the  
>>>> apocryphal
>>>> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea  
>>>> comes
>>>> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until  
>>>> it's
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other?  
>>>> Someplace
>>>> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Thanks,</burcu>
>
> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.
>
> http://www.palefirer.com
> http://palefirer.com/blog/
> Skype: PaleFireR
> AIM: PaleFireR
>
> --
> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

From libfli at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 20:02:40 2009
From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:02:40 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com><AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org><4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com><e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com><AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org><d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
	<07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>
Message-ID: <8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>


 deadlines (self imposed and imposed by others) inspire me -

faced with a world of choices, deadlines force me to focus and for some reason give
me clarity.? plus i work well under loads of stress.


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?










Didn't you just tweet that you are under deadline for an article?

;)

Mike
http://www.campfirenyc.com/
Sent from a smart(-ish) phone.

On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:05 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" <bbakiogl at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Inspiration comes to me in odd occasions... like when I am hiking,  
> swimming,
> taking a shower, shopping... But executing that inspiration is a  
> hell of a
> lot of work and requires much hair pulling and discomfort. When I  
> get an
> idea I am always under the false impression that it is going to be  
> easy to
> execute/write, when I start the writing process I wonder what the  
> hell I was
> thinking earlier. And I don't really believe in anyone who says this  
> is an
> easy process, seriously, I've been writing for over a decade and it  
> ain't
> getting any easier.
>
> burcu
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Judy Tyrer  
> <judy.tyrer at redstorm.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on  
>> the drive
>> home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for  
>> hours at a
>> time.  It's inevitable.
>>
>> As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes  
>> in the
>> morning upon first waking up.
>>
>> I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at  
>> night.  I
>> can't code in the morning.
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- 
>> bounces at igda.org]
>> On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration  
>> or
>> Inspiration?
>>
>> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
>> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
>> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
>> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
>> roughly what you said?)
>>
>> It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
>> little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
>> difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
>> walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
>> I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit  
>> and
>> type and type and hope that something comes out.
>>
>> Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
>> very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
>> recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
>> musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
>> fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
>> peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
>> up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
>> just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.
>>
>> - Naomi
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them
>> later.
>>> If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of  
>>> those
>>> rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
>>>
>>> I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the  
>>> spot.
>> Most
>>> of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the  
>>> bus, at
>> 3am
>>> while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I  
>>> pretty
>>> much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also  
>>> have a
>> set
>>> on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
>>>
>>> Judy Tyrer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you  
>>>> have to
>> be
>>>> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the  
>>>> doing
>> of
>>>> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You  
>>>> can't just
>>>> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively
>> involved
>>>> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in  
>>>> which you
>> are
>>>> working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At  
>>>> least,
>> that's
>>>> been my experience.
>>>> Judy
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- 
>>>> bounces at igda.org
>> ]
>>>> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
>>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
>>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
>>>> Inspiration?
>>>>
>>>> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
>>>> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
>>>> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work  
>>>> (writing
>>>> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work  
>>>> will
>>>> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the  
>>>> apocryphal
>>>> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea  
>>>> comes
>>>> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until  
>>>> it's
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other?  
>>>> Someplace
>>>> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Thanks,</burcu>
>
> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.
>
> http://www.palefirer.com
> http://palefirer.com/blog/
> Skype: PaleFireR
> AIM: PaleFireR
>
> --
> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss



 


From bbakiogl at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:53:26 2009
From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:53:26 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>
	<07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>
	<8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <d8cd2ba60909151753r725c74e4y8ac16027fb1f828c@mail.gmail.com>

Mike, yes indeed. I have. Here's the thing.. Judy, though I never figure
skated, I understand where you're coming from. When I am playing World of
Warcraft, for example, and keep dying over and over again at a quest, I
realize that I have to look at the problem differently and figure out an
easier solution. So, for example if I keep dying, either the quest is too
difficult for my level (in which case I have to call for help) or I am
approaching the problem in a way that is making the solution more difficult
for me to kill whatever it is that I need to kill. All I have to do is to
figure out another way of looking at the problem that would make the
solution easier to solve.

But in my experience in writing it oftentimes takes more work to make the
writing easy to write (like you mentioned). Sometimes I reread the articles
that I published and say, "Man, anyone could have written that, that sounds
too easy!" But in reality it took me 50 revisions to achieve that kind of
simplicity in writing. Granted, I am talking about academic writing but I
strongly believe that it requires creativity as well. For example, it took
me two years worth of rewriting to get my Second Life chapters in place. Now
if you read it, you'd ask me, "Why the hell did it take so long for you to
write two chapters as simple as these?" I guess what I am trying to say is
this: there is not much difference between the difficulty in writing and the
difficulty in figuring out how to make it easy in writing. They are both
difficult. Figuring out both is a difficult process even if you know what
you are going to say.

And like Jan says, writing under stress and with deadlines make it easier
for me to write too...


burcu

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:02 PM, <libfli at aol.com> wrote:

>
>  deadlines (self imposed and imposed by others) inspire me -
>
> faced with a world of choices, deadlines force me to focus and for some
> reason give
> me clarity.? plus i work well under loads of stress.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm
> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> Inspiration?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Didn't you just tweet that you are under deadline for an article?
>
> ;)
>
> Mike
> http://www.campfirenyc.com/
> Sent from a smart(-ish) phone.
>
> On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:05 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" <bbakiogl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Inspiration comes to me in odd occasions... like when I am hiking,
> > swimming,
> > taking a shower, shopping... But executing that inspiration is a
> > hell of a
> > lot of work and requires much hair pulling and discomfort. When I
> > get an
> > idea I am always under the false impression that it is going to be
> > easy to
> > execute/write, when I start the writing process I wonder what the
> > hell I was
> > thinking earlier. And I don't really believe in anyone who says this
> > is an
> > easy process, seriously, I've been writing for over a decade and it
> > ain't
> > getting any easier.
> >
> > burcu
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Judy Tyrer
> > <judy.tyrer at redstorm.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm a programmer.  The solution to the problem ALWAYS happens on
> >> the drive
> >> home after beating my head against the proverbial brick wall for
> >> hours at a
> >> time.  It's inevitable.
> >>
> >> As a writer (which I am only rarely paid for) the inspiration comes
> >> in the
> >> morning upon first waking up.
> >>
> >> I think it's a left brain/right brain thing.  I can't write at
> >> night.  I
> >> can't code in the morning.
> >>
> >> Judy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-
> >> bounces at igda.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Naomi Alderman
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:57 PM
> >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
> >> or
> >> Inspiration?
> >>
> >> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
> >> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
> >> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
> >> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
> >> roughly what you said?)
> >>
> >> It is never like this for me :-(. If I'm not at my desk working, very
> >> little happens. The really great ideas, the ones that make all the
> >> difference to the project, those end up coming at random times (on a
> >> walk, in the pool, in the shower), but for the day-to-day 'what shall
> >> I do with this next scene?' questions it is graft all the way. Sit
> >> and
> >> type and type and hope that something comes out.
> >>
> >> Dorothea Brande, if you don't know her book 'Becoming a Writer' is
> >> very good on the topic of 'activities that engender ideas'. She
> >> recommends setting yourself a writing (or other creative) problem,
> >> musing on it for a while, and then going off to do something which is
> >> fairly mindless, body-not-brain, perhaps something rhythmic and
> >> peaceful like walking, rocking in a rocking chair, knitting, washing
> >> up or whittling. Sometimes it's worked for me, but more often it's
> >> just banging my forehead with my fist until something falls out.
> >>
> >> - Naomi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> I'm a programmer by trade: I do things first, then think about them
> >> later.
> >>> If it takes six complete rewrites to get it right (even if some of
> >>> those
> >>> rewrites are done for no reason), so be it.
> >>>
> >>> I have a hard time sitting down and coming up with ideas on the
> >>> spot.
> >> Most
> >>> of my ideas come out of the blue at inconvenient times: on the
> >>> bus, at
> >> 3am
> >>> while asleep, watching a movie in the theater, in the shower... I
> >>> pretty
> >>> much go everywhere with a pen and paper at this point, and also
> >>> have a
> >> set
> >>> on my nightstand (drives the wife crazy).
> >>>
> >>> Judy Tyrer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know about "waiting for an idea to come" as I think you
> >>>> have to
> >> be
> >>>> actively involved in DOING and then the idea comes.  It is in the
> >>>> doing
> >> of
> >>>> the project that one opens oneself up for ideas to flow.  You
> >>>> can't just
> >>>> watch TV all day waiting for inspiration.  You have to be actively
> >> involved
> >>>> in what you are wanting to achieve, regardless of the media in
> >>>> which you
> >> are
> >>>> working.  Inspiration comes through perspiration, I guess.  At
> >>>> least,
> >> that's
> >>>> been my experience.
> >>>> Judy
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-
> >>>> bounces at igda.org
> >> ]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips
> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM
> >>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
> >>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
> >>>> Inspiration?
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a question that came up on IRC a few weeks ago. There are a
> >>>> few ways that creative work happens. On the one hand, there's the
> >>>> Stevie Wonder model, perspiration: You work and work and work
> >>>> (writing
> >>>> dozens of songs a fay, and then, by the numbers, some of the work
> >>>> will
> >>>> be chart-toppers. Then there's the inspiration model, the
> >>>> apocryphal
> >>>> Voltaire writing Candide in three days: You wait until an idea
> >>>> comes
> >>>> to you, and then you execute it in one dizzying whirlwind until
> >>>> it's
> >>>> done.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you: Where do you fall? Skew hard one way or the other?
> >>>> Someplace
> >>>> in the middle? On one end and wish you were on the other?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,</burcu>
> >
> > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.
> >
> > http://www.palefirer.com
> > http://palefirer.com/blog/
> > Skype: PaleFireR
> > AIM: PaleFireR
> >
> > --
> > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARG_Discuss mailing list
> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



-- 
Thanks,</burcu>

Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.

http://www.palefirer.com
http://palefirer.com/blog/
Skype: PaleFireR
AIM: PaleFireR

--
"Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."

From dflor71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 22:57:25 2009
From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:57:25 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration
	or	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com><AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org><4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com><e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com><AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org><d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>	<07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>
	<8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4AB05415.8080405@gmail.com>

"I love deadlines. Especially the 'whoosh' sound they make as they fly 
by..."

libfli at aol.com wrote:
>  deadlines (self imposed and imposed by others) inspire me -
>
> faced with a world of choices, deadlines force me to focus and for some reason give
> me clarity.? plus i work well under loads of stress.
>
>
>  
>
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm
> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or Inspiration?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Didn't you just tweet that you are under deadline for an article?
>
> ;)
>
> Mike
> http://www.campfirenyc.com/
> Sent from a smart(-ish) phone.
>
> On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:05 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" <bbakiogl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>   

From dflor71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 01:21:34 2009
From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:21:34 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss]  "Rachel's Walk" production blog
In-Reply-To: <d8cd2ba60909151753r725c74e4y8ac16027fb1f828c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>	<d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com>	<07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>	<8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com>
	<d8cd2ba60909151753r725c74e4y8ac16027fb1f828c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AB075DE.60306@gmail.com>

In anticipation of the launch of Rachel's Walk "soon", we have decided 
to put together a production blog, talking about some of our development 
and design processes:

http://blog.rachelswalk.com/

We'll try our best not to talk about "in game" elements and ruin the 
actual gaming experience, but we hope it'll be helpful and of interest 
to most.

<shamelessplug>
Of course, you're always welcome to sign up to the game on the main 
site: http://www.rachelswalk.com/
</shamelessplug>

Tnx & Rgds....
David Flor - dflor71 at gmail.com
Darklight Interactive - http://www.dlimedia.com/

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"



From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 04:20:05 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:20:05 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] "Rachel's Walk" production blog
In-Reply-To: <4AB075DE.60306@gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com> 
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org> 
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com> 
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A1012DFD97@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org> 
	<d8cd2ba60909151442o120e960csad3c9a9b8c079216@mail.gmail.com> 
	<07875AE0-9910-4CD0-BBBD-0B9836AB9AD7@campfirenyc.com>
	<8CC047824811749-1A70-1995F@webmail-d054.sysops.aol.com> 
	<d8cd2ba60909151753r725c74e4y8ac16027fb1f828c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AB075DE.60306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909160120l4d52d33g9d504d7ea2c9bdae@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

Thanks for the heads up ! That'll make for an interesting reading today.

Best,
T.

From brooke at giantmice.com  Fri Sep 18 16:22:07 2009
From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:22:07 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGFest needs your help
Message-ID: <5E62C472-FF35-407D-8FB2-4B15F898D88F@giantmice.com>

Hi all!

Just wanted to give you a quick heads up on ARGFest. Yes, it's months  
and months away, but we're in the process of building the foundation  
of ARGFest 2010 and looking to the greater ARG community to help us  
out. Currently, there are two big chunks out there: Location & Website.

Location:
As you may be aware, ARGFest has always been a roving conference. This  
gets harder and harder to do the bigger we get (and boy do we have  
plans for 2010!). To make the process easier, we've formalized the  
location proposal bit and have been asking people to provide us with a  
lot of information on various cities. In part, this shows us that  
there are people invested in the location and let's us know what the  
ground team will look like. But it's also designed to show us some of  
the resources that we can draw on and use - even more important this  
year as there (may be! we hope!) a game festival as part of ARGFest.  
If you think your city would be an outstanding host, please consider  
submitting a proposal! If it's not chosen for 2010, it'll certainly  
help us get a head start on a location for 2011.

Website:
We're making an effort this year to reach out beyond the ARG community  
and want a shiny new website to help us out with that. The goal is to  
have it launched by the end of October and we've issued a design  
challenge to help us out with that. If you're a web or graphic  
designer, please consider submitting something. We'd love your help  
with this! Design comps are due by the end of this month and we'll  
make a quick decision and then work with the designer (or team) to get  
it built and launched by the end of next month.

More info on both are located on our site: http://www.argfest.com and,  
of course, you can contact me directly.

And finally, I'd really like to encourage you all to get involved.  
We're still in the organizational stage, but we'll have lots of  
opportunities (and needs!) throughout the year as we pull this  
together. One volunteer need that I'm rather eager to fill is someone  
with PR experience. Also fundraising - with the addition of a game  
festival, we'll have some great opportunities for sponsors which is  
good, because as ARGFest grows, so do our costs. So, if you've got  
experience with either of those and want to help out, let's talk! And  
if you don't have experience with those, don't be shy! We've got lots  
to do. Maybe not right away, but trust me... we're gonna need your  
help :)

Brooke

(if this shows up twice - sorry! i waited 30m before sending it  
again...)

From brooke at giantmice.com  Fri Sep 18 15:58:46 2009
From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:58:46 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGFest needs your help
Message-ID: <31AB1D33-DA8E-44DE-B3E3-835A1DE9CDF5@giantmice.com>

Hi all!

Just wanted to give you a quick heads up on ARGFest. Yes, it's months  
and months away, but we're in the process of building the foundation  
of ARGFest 2010 and looking to the greater ARG community to help us  
out. Currently, there are two big chunks out there: Location & Website.

Location:
As you may be aware, ARGFest has always been a roving conference. This  
gets harder and harder to do the bigger we get (and boy do we have  
plans for 2010!). To make the process easier, we've formalized the  
location proposal bit and have been asking people to provide us with a  
lot of information on various cities. In part, this shows us that  
there are people invested in the location and let's us know what the  
ground team will look like. But it's also designed to show us some of  
the resources that we can draw on and use - even more important this  
year as there (may be! we hope!) a game festival as part of ARGFest.  
If you think your city would be an outstanding host, please consider  
submitting a proposal! If it's not chosen for 2010, it'll certainly  
help us get a head start on a location for 2011.

Website:
We're making an effort this year to reach out beyond the ARG community  
and want a shiny new website to help us out with that. The goal is to  
have it launched by the end of October and we've issued a design  
challenge to help us out with that. If you're a web or graphic  
designer, please consider submitting something. We'd love your help  
with this! Design comps are due by the end of this month and we'll  
make a quick decision and then work with the designer (or team) to get  
it built and launched by the end of next month.

More info on both are located on our site: http://www.argfest.com and,  
of course, you can contact me directly.

And finally, I'd really like to encourage you all to get involved.  
We're still in the organizational stage, but we'll have lots of  
opportunities (and needs!) throughout the year as we pull this  
together. One volunteer need that I'm rather eager to fill is someone  
with PR experience. Also fundraising - with the addition of a game  
festival, we'll have some great opportunities for sponsors which is  
good, because as ARGFest grows, so do our costs. So, if you've got  
experience with either of those and want to help out, let's talk! And  
if you don't have experience with those, don't be shy! We've got lots  
to do. Maybe not right away, but trust me... we're gonna need your  
help :)

Brooke

From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Sat Sep 19 18:07:45 2009
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:07:45 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Introduction - Sheri Rubin
Message-ID: <4AB55631.2030403@designdirectdeliver.com>

Hello ARG SIG Members,

My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting 
business called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more about my 
company and me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php.

IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair and 
Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game Development 
SIG (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG (now!), Casual Games 
SIG, Human Resources SIG, Game Design SIG, Online Games SIG, Production 
SIG, Quality of Life SIG, Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG.

I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter 
Guidance Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange 
County Chapter for the IGDA.

I'm excited to be here and learn more about ARGs and how they effect the 
industry as a whole.

Thanks!
Sheri

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO/President

*Design, Direct, Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 03:28:03 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:28:03 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] Introduction - Sheri Rubin
In-Reply-To: <4AB55631.2030403@designdirectdeliver.com>
References: <4AB55631.2030403@designdirectdeliver.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0909210028q3a10242at1b48c250955ec6ba@mail.gmail.com>

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Hello Sheri,

It's a pleasure to welcome you in this group. I hope you'll find - and bring
! - lots of inspiration through your conversations with our members !

All the best,
T.
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2009/9/20 Sheri Rubin <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>

> Hello ARG SIG Members,
>
> My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting business
> called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more about my company and
> me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php.
>
> IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair and
> Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game Development SIG
> (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG (now!), Casual Games SIG,
> Human Resources SIG, Game Design SIG, Online Games SIG, Production SIG,
> Quality of Life SIG, Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG.
>
> I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter Guidance
> Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange County Chapter for
> the IGDA.
>
> I'm excited to be here and learn more about ARGs and how they effect the
> industry as a whole.
>
> Thanks!
> Sheri
>
> --
> *Sheri Rubin*
> CEO/President
>
> *Design, Direct, Deliver*
> Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
> Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 09:04:57 2009
From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:04:57 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c799fd60909210604s794575c0s222dc754bff6e88@mail.gmail.com>

I just wanted to clarify Naomi's representation of my own process... ;)

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Naomi Alderman <naomi.alderman at gmail.com>wrote:

> I actually had a conversation about this recently with Andrea and was
> *jealous as hell* when she told me that she can work on a problem and
> know that she can then just 'leave things to [her] subconscious' and
> reliably wake up the next morning with an idea. (Andrea, is this
> roughly what you said?)
>

That's... not exactly it. This works for some things and not for others. For
me there are two basic kinds of creation, the Big Picture and the detail
work. For Big Picture stuff, I can prod at the edges of it and work out the
parameters of my conceptual framework consciously. That's where I'm
establishing stuff like who my audience is meant to be, what my run time
should be, what kinds of information or mood I'm trying to convey, what
resources I have available to use. The goal here is to establish my
narrative framework and big game mechanic, if there is one.

Once I've got the basic shape of it, though, I much, much prefer giving the
whole thing a few days of determined inattention. That lets the information
just sit there, and I think my brain starts making connections while I'm not
looking. When I can do this, within a couple of days, *ding!* the whole
thing comes into sharp focus at some point, typically while I'm in the
process of falling asleep, and I am compelled to go and write it all down
because it's all so very obvious and exciting. This reliably happens for me,
provided I've spent that up-front time working out my questions, as above.
It never takes more than a week, and sometimes much less.

I've also done big picture stuff by just chipping away at it because I
didn't have time to let it sit, but I've very often had to go back and
change a lot of that work when it became obvious in later stages of
development that it was broken, so it's not my preferred method. Though
generally when I have to do Big Picture stuff that way, it means there's
time pressure and other extenuating circumstances that could affect the
quality of the work, so maybe just chipping at it, but over the few days,
would result in similar quality.

For detail work, though -- and by 'detail' I mean actual content and
specific story beats -- sometimes I'm inspired and sometimes I'm not, but I
do the work all the same, and in a month's time I won't be able to tell you
which were the things I did when I was inspired. If I'm not, it probably
took me a little (or a lot) longer to make, but there's not a meaningful
difference in quality, so far as I can tell.

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 09:09:00 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:09:00 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 22: Business Models
Message-ID: <5c799fd60909210609r2e8f8115gb824bb1408f44c01@mail.gmail.com>

We should probably have this discussion every couple of months, honestly.
So yeah: What do you think is our future in business? Marketing? Product
placements or sponsorships? Subscriptions? Ancillary merchandise and
microtransactions? Do you see different forms of ARG developing to exploit
these different potential business models? What are our challenges and
advantages for each model?

Put in your two cents and predict the future. Don't worry, I guarantee
nobody will check back in five years to see who was right. :)

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From naomi.alderman at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 19:41:19 2009
From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:41:19 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Sept. 14: Perspiration or
	Inspiration?
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60909210604s794575c0s222dc754bff6e88@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60909141050l6658dfc2s7629596397348a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAB7053861D892429CD001268650A9A101250C12@MDC-MAIL-CMS01.ubisoft.org>
	<4AAE932B.2080808@gmail.com>
	<e066067b0909151357n564df56dgd974e706164ecf17@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c799fd60909210604s794575c0s222dc754bff6e88@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e066067b0909211641v4811c535mc6cd8bdcf3eb79a8@mail.gmail.com>

Heh, sorry to have misrepresented. I'm still jealous as hell, though,
especially of the bit below. My subconscious is never, ever, anything
that could be described as reliable. Damn slacker subconscious.

- Naomi

> Once I've got the basic shape of it, though, I much, much prefer giving the
> whole thing a few days of determined inattention. That lets the information
> just sit there, and I think my brain starts making connections while I'm not
> looking. When I can do this, within a couple of days, *ding!* the whole
> thing comes into sharp focus at some point, typically while I'm in the
> process of falling asleep, and I am compelled to go and write it all down
> because it's all so very obvious and exciting. This reliably happens for me,
> provided I've spent that up-front time working out my questions, as above.
> It never takes more than a week, and sometimes much less.
>

From thenobleclass at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 02:44:41 2009
From: thenobleclass at gmail.com (allan norico)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:44:41 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] first post!
Message-ID: <b17040200909232344n718c6bd6sf5f1a7edbcac19c9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone!

     Just a quick introduction. My name is Allan Norico and I'm a visual
development artist from NYC. I recently had an opportunity to take some time
off from work to get a few personal projects off the ground, one being a
program called The Noble Class. It's an alternative education experience
designed for art students and entry level artists to acclimate to different
production cycles within the creative industry thru. I've been very
interested in testing a hypothesis on how ARG methods and certain game
tropes could be applied to learning. If you'd like to read more about, check
out http://www.thenobleclass.com/concept/index.htm

     I just finished a project with a NYC creative agency that involved
developing ARG type quests in/around the city. Since then I've been hooked
with making time to develop a better awareness of the current ARG scene.

Thanks!

Allan