From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 08:52:38 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:52:38 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW Oct. 5: Halo ODST & Sadie's Story
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910050552m511574e9l2c9d603ab1a4a469@mail.gmail.com>

I'm phoning it in this week, folks, apologies. I'm dealing with a
personal issue right now that's taking up a lot of my time and mental
energy.

SO for this week I'm giving you a softball: Tell us about Sadie's
Story and what it's like. Reviews, experiences, personal thoughts
welcome. If you're very concerned about having the game spoiled for
you, you're probably going to want to skip this thread.


-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 09:52:26 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:52:26 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't been getting a lot of traction with my last couple of
efforts. I'm choosing to interpret this as a good sign that we're all
so busy working that we don't have time for the list right now. But in
case I'm just entirely missing the mark, have at: What's on your mind?
What do you wish we were talking about that we aren't?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 11:32:04 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:32:04 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0910120832j3898e8c1q3bf683eddd51c230@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andrea, everyone,

As far as I'm concerned, the above interpretation is correct - life is
pretty much filled with work-related, non-fun, not-so-creative stuff and
when it's not, it's back to grown-up world which is not all it's cracked up
to be. BUT. Andrea's topic brings a question that's been troubling me some
these days, because I find myself thinking of Fais-Moi Jouer ! and what it
might require from me should it reach a certain point in its growth.

The question is this : Was there ever a "tipping point" for you guys where
you had to choose between a "classic" job your degrees training might have
gotten you and the career you're pursuing now ? If so, what made you take
the plunge and took you where you are now ?

2009/10/12 Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>

> I haven't been getting a lot of traction with my last couple of
> efforts. I'm choosing to interpret this as a good sign that we're all
> so busy working that we don't have time for the list right now. But in
> case I'm just entirely missing the mark, have at: What's on your mind?
> What do you wish we were talking about that we aren't?
>
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 12:06:30 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:06:30 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Need Volunteers
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have a couple of hours this week they could spare for the
sake of the SIG? The IGDA is on the verge of launching a new website,
and we need to get the content from our existing area to the new one
ahead of launch (note this is NOT ARGology, it's just the stuff at
IGDA.org/arg.)

Any volunteers?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From bbakiogl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 12:32:15 2009
From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:32:15 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Need Volunteers
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d8cd2ba60910120932u12c0134ev2558758364c8b118@mail.gmail.com>

Andrea,
I can help out if you like. Let me know when/what/where. I do, however, need
specific deadlines to work :P (possibly other stuff as well, if this is web
work - like url and account info)

E-mail: palefire at palefirer.com

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a couple of hours this week they could spare for the
> sake of the SIG? The IGDA is on the verge of launching a new website,
> and we need to get the content from our existing area to the new one
> ahead of launch (note this is NOT ARGology, it's just the stuff at
> IGDA.org/arg.)
>
> Any volunteers?
>
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



-- 
Thanks,</burcu>

Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.

http://www.palefirer.com
http://palefirer.com/blog/
Skype: PaleFireR
AIM: PaleFireR

--
"Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test."

From dflor71 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 12:59:56 2009
From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:59:56 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50b4b0580910120959q377e5a6awb52c9595d3fc4302@mail.gmail.com>

"What's on your mind?"

Well, I keep having this recurring dream of Summer Glau doing the
narration for "Rachel's Walk"...

...what? Why are you looking at me like that? What'd I say?

Tnx & Rgds...
David Flor
Darklight Interactive
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 13:08:47 2009
From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:08:47 +0200
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
In-Reply-To: <50b4b0580910120959q377e5a6awb52c9595d3fc4302@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120652o710472en6b7a9495e672bf89@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50b4b0580910120959q377e5a6awb52c9595d3fc4302@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25de1e4f0910121008k1724bf41o2c5a1960b4f92e72@mail.gmail.com>

Could it be that we saw you in an epidosde of The Big Bang Theory, David ?
;)
T.

2009/10/12 David Flor <dflor71 at gmail.com>

>
> Well, I keep having this recurring dream of Summer Glau doing the
> narration for "Rachel's Walk"...
>

From seanbohan at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 12:52:07 2009
From: seanbohan at gmail.com (Sean Bohan)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:52:07 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Need Volunteers
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4651773a0910120952s6b9cc705o9da40ca1666ed7f1@mail.gmail.com>

Happy to help (although not a member of igda - yet)

let me know the details and I can jump on it



On Monday, October 12, 2009, Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have a couple of hours this week they could spare for the
> sake of the SIG? The IGDA is on the verge of launching a new website,
> and we need to get the content from our existing area to the new one
> ahead of launch (note this is NOT ARGology, it's just the stuff at
> IGDA.org/arg.)
>
> Any volunteers?
>
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------
Sean W. Bohan
seanbohan at gmail.com
http://www.seanbohan.com
http://www.twitter.com/seanbohan

From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 14:14:11 2009
From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:14:11 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Need Volunteers
In-Reply-To: <4651773a0910120952s6b9cc705o9da40ca1666ed7f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910120906i6fd1e5d8md101b8d31aedcf62@mail.gmail.com>
	<4651773a0910120952s6b9cc705o9da40ca1666ed7f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910121114l22ba8ef5gb7ee03c1440eb918@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the volunteering, guys. I appreciate it. Sadly, I'm running
into a snag where I can't actually get volunteers joined to the group
and signed in, much less editing anything. Wanion. Do any of you
happen to have an IGDA membership and a login that already works on
the IGDA.org site? I suspect that would work, but not 100% sure.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Sean Bohan <seanbohan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Happy to help (although not a member of igda - yet)
>
> let me know the details and I can jump on it
>
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2009, Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone have a couple of hours this week they could spare for the
>> sake of the SIG? The IGDA is on the verge of launching a new website,
>> and we need to get the content from our existing area to the new one
>> ahead of launch (note this is NOT ARGology, it's just the stuff at
>> IGDA.org/arg.)
>>
>> Any volunteers?
>>
>> --
>> Andrea Phillips
>> http://www.aaphillips.com
>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
>> Words * Culture * Interaction
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARG_Discuss mailing list
>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------
> Sean W. Bohan
> seanbohan at gmail.com
> http://www.seanbohan.com
> http://www.twitter.com/seanbohan
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>



-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From john.j.kaufman at gmail.com  Thu Oct 15 18:17:45 2009
From: john.j.kaufman at gmail.com (John Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:17:45 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Any additional info about the Toyota issue?
Message-ID: <188b35dd0910151517r3825a7e3qa288f821689c72a4@mail.gmail.com>

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8776841

If anyone from the company that put this together is on here, I don't expect
them to respond (since it is an active Legal case), but any links with
better information about the project or the case would be appreciated.

-John J. Kaufman

From mandersen at argn.com  Fri Oct 16 10:55:52 2009
From: mandersen at argn.com (Michael Andersen)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:55:52 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG_Discuss Digest, Vol 51, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1255701604.95039.arg_discuss@igda.org>
References: <mailman.10.1255701604.95039.arg_discuss@igda.org>
Message-ID: <b8fd5f7a0910160755g72ad5f7bj40a6c45249d79aa@mail.gmail.com>

The campaign was based around the website yourotheryou.com (which now
directs to the Toyota Matrix website) -- you can see the video advertising
the service on Current
tv<http://current.com/items/89250759_toyota-matrix-vcam.htm>
-- Current TV actually has quite a
few<http://current.com/items/88972773_toyota-matrix-your-other-you-example.htm>
videos<http://current.com/items/89250902_i-dont-know-what-i-signed-up-for.htm>showing
aspects of the campaign in the Toyota
Matrix VCAM group <http://current.com/groups/toyota-matrix-vcam/>

MediaPost has an
article<http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=85309>offering
a bit more about the campaign, with some very useful insights.
<http://current.com/items/89250759_toyota-matrix-vcam.htm>
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:00 AM, <arg_discuss-request at igda.org> wrote:

> Send ARG_Discuss mailing list submissions to
>        arg_discuss at igda.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        arg_discuss-request at igda.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        arg_discuss-owner at igda.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ARG_Discuss digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Any additional info about the Toyota issue? (John Kaufman)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: John Kaufman <john.j.kaufman at gmail.com>
> To: arg_discuss at igda.org
> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:17:45 -0700
> Subject: [arg_discuss] Any additional info about the Toyota issue?
> http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8776841
>
> If anyone from the company that put this together is on here, I don't
> expect
> them to respond (since it is an active Legal case), but any links with
> better information about the project or the case would be appreciated.
>
> -John J. Kaufman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
>

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Fri Oct 16 14:06:09 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:06:09 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0910120832j3898e8c1q3bf683eddd51c230@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6FE2E51.1937F%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>

When I was working for the not-for-profit Florida Film Festival, I once turned down a job programming for Disney that would have tripled my salary because I feared it would raise my standard of living too much and I wouldn't take risks pursuing independent movies. A couple years later, I was producing Blair Witch and earning far less than what the film festival was paying, but it all worked out in the end.

I say always follow your heart, and in those times you have to choose money over desire, don't let those jobs derail your ambitions!

Best,

Mike

On 10/12/09 11:32 AM, "Thomas Maillioux" <thomas.maillioux at gmail.com> wrote:

The question is this : Was there ever a "tipping point" for you guys where
you had to choose between a "classic" job your degrees training might have
gotten you and the career you're pursuing now ? If so, what made you take
the plunge and took you where you are now ?

From bclark at gmdstudios.com  Fri Oct 16 14:45:13 2009
From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:45:13 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me
In-Reply-To: <C6FE2E51.1937F%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>
References: <25de1e4f0910120832j3898e8c1q3bf683eddd51c230@mail.gmail.com>
	<C6FE2E51.1937F%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>
Message-ID: <33EF0E51CDF949599260FAF1B75604C1@Tricorder>

> I say always follow your heart, and in those times you have
> to choose money over desire, don't let those jobs derail
> your ambitions!

Picking up on Mike's theme, the tipping point for me happened during
pre-registration of my freshman year in college. My academic advisor hit me
with the mother of all observations, which was a like a time bomb.

Don't worry what you're going to major in, don't worry about what you're
going to do with your life. You have to decide what kind of person you are.
Do you do something you're good at and make a lot of money and derive your
happiness in life from that? Or do you do something you love regardless of
how much money it makes you and derive your happiness in life from that? You
can't plan on both, that takes luck.

At 19, that was way too much for me to absorb, but it pretty much guided my
choices after that (including leading me into the independent arts
traditions, which tend to be long on passion and shorter on money). I aimed
for what I love to do and now also count myself lucky.





-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Monello
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:06 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 12: You Tell Me

When I was working for the not-for-profit Florida Film Festival, I once
turned down a job programming for Disney that would have tripled my salary
because I feared it would raise my standard of living too much and I
wouldn't take risks pursuing independent movies. A couple years later, I was
producing Blair Witch and earning far less than what the film festival was
paying, but it all worked out in the end.

I say always follow your heart, and in those times you have to choose money
over desire, don't let those jobs derail your ambitions!

Best,

Mike

On 10/12/09 11:32 AM, "Thomas Maillioux" <thomas.maillioux at gmail.com> wrote:

The question is this : Was there ever a "tipping point" for you guys where
you had to choose between a "classic" job your degrees training might have
gotten you and the career you're pursuing now ? If so, what made you take
the plunge and took you where you are now ?
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 08:53:16 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:53:16 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 19: That Toyota Thing
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910190553m5dbc7db7paadd06982074c3d5@mail.gmail.com>

Since we've already brought it up, I thought I'd try to gently
encourage a little more discussion on it. (Is this the first lawsuit
over a transmedia/ARG/pervasive experience?)

Obviously to me the biggest mistake they made was one of not clearly
marking out the magic circle -- that prank spin made the experience
fall too far on the real side of the coin. The person being provided
the experience hadn't opted into it, which raises ethical eyebrows for
me even if not legal ones.

Thoughts? Blog posts you already wrote on it? Anything?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Mon Oct 19 16:08:56 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:08:56 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 19: That Toyota Thing
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910190553m5dbc7db7paadd06982074c3d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7023F98.195E8%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>

I'm actually more curious to understand how that experience was meant to sell cars!

Best,

Mike

On 10/19/09 8:53 AM, "Andrea Phillips" <andrhia at gmail.com> wrote:

Since we've already brought it up, I thought I'd try to gently
encourage a little more discussion on it. (Is this the first lawsuit
over a transmedia/ARG/pervasive experience?)

Obviously to me the biggest mistake they made was one of not clearly
marking out the magic circle -- that prank spin made the experience
fall too far on the real side of the coin. The person being provided
the experience hadn't opted into it, which raises ethical eyebrows for
me even if not legal ones.

Thoughts? Blog posts you already wrote on it? Anything?

--
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From mela_kocher at yahoo.de  Wed Oct 21 13:41:37 2009
From: mela_kocher at yahoo.de (mela kocher)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:41:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [arg_discuss] That Toyota Thing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1256047202.52687.arg_discuss@igda.org>
Message-ID: <254836.86527.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


I also think it's super problematic to have such an experience thrown at people without their previous consent - we talked about this also in respect to Martin Aggett.
What I don't get, though, is: why is only Toyota facing a law-suit and not the respective "friend" who gave all the personal info? Why is ethical behavior only expected from big companies? Or is this less about being violated in personal matters than getting money?

Anyways, it did surprised me greatly that such a big company as Toyota would cross the lines in a way that usually grassroot ARGs would do. Is it just me or are we becoming a society of hoax?

Mela 

P.S. And Michael: I wonder many times what car commercials have to do with the actual cars. ;) 


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:53:16 -0400
> From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 19: That
> Toyota Thing

> 
> Since we've already brought it up, I thought I'd try to
> gently
> encourage a little more discussion on it. (Is this the
> first lawsuit
> over a transmedia/ARG/pervasive experience?)
> 
> Obviously to me the biggest mistake they made was one of
> not clearly
> marking out the magic circle -- that prank spin made the
> experience
> fall too far on the real side of the coin. The person being
> provided
> the experience hadn't opted into it, which raises ethical
> eyebrows for
> me even if not legal ones.
> 
> Thoughts? Blog posts you already wrote on it? Anything?
> 
> -- 
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:08:56 -0700
> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 19: That
> Toyota
> ??? Thing
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <C7023F98.195E8%mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I'm actually more curious to understand how that experience
> was meant to sell cars!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 10/19/09 8:53 AM, "Andrea Phillips" <andrhia at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Since we've already brought it up, I thought I'd try to
> gently
> encourage a little more discussion on it. (Is this the
> first lawsuit
> over a transmedia/ARG/pervasive experience?)
> 
> Obviously to me the biggest mistake they made was one of
> not clearly
> marking out the magic circle -- that prank spin made the
> experience
> fall too far on the real side of the coin. The person being
> provided
> the experience hadn't opted into it, which raises ethical
> eyebrows for
> me even if not legal ones.
> 
> Thoughts? Blog posts you already wrote on it? Anything?
> 
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
> 
> 
> End of ARG_Discuss Digest, Vol 51, Issue 5
> ******************************************
> 


      

From luci at templefilms.com.au  Thu Oct 22 21:21:15 2009
From: luci at templefilms.com.au (Luci Temple)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:21:15 +1100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Toyota lawsuit
Message-ID: <c36b7aff0910221821y63acb846kdac5f29dcc9d29c9@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Andrea that a key mistake Toyota made was targeting someone who
hadn't opted in, which is ethically wrong, regardless of legality. The
second mistake was being too directly threatening in the content - 'I know
where you live, I am coming to your place, and I am a violent criminal on
the run", opening the way for potential misinterpretation and fear.

I'm working on an arg hybrid and during intital brainstorming we were
tossing around ideas, and one of the many we discussed casually was a
scenario where there's an Al Queda terrorist cell you have to uncover -
which very quickly sparked warning signs, that this could easily become
confused if non-participants overheard elements and thought it was a real
threat. We need to be mindful that people come into contact with ARG
material in any number of ways and won't always see it the way core gamers
will. The best ARGs invite the suspension of disbelief, but do have slight
clues in the fine print (eg, secondary articles in a fake newspaper site)
that it's not real, so any investigation would make it evident that there's
no threat.

Having said that, Mela's point that the friend was the one who divulged the
information does raise a question... for all we know the alleged victim and
her friend could have seen this game as an opportunity to sting a big
company to gain a huge payout. If you set up your ARG in an
unethical/illegal manner, maybe you get what's coming one way or another.

Luci

From mandersen at argn.com  Fri Oct 23 13:08:40 2009
From: mandersen at argn.com (Michael Andersen)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:08:40 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Toyota lawsuit
Message-ID: <b8fd5f7a0910231008v4a4d3c18vd345e96c7df84c99@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with most of the sentiments that have been aired so far, and would
like to add that this also raises concerns about whether opt-out procedures
should be set in place and communicated, especially in cases where the
contact is prolonged or when you'll be using automated responses.

I think offering explicit signals of the game's fictionality is integral to
good game design, and the earlier that is done, the better so as to avoid
confusion. Additionally, you need to consider a fairly wide range of media
literacies in signaling that fictionality, because otherwise you're relying
on third parties to do the signaling for you.

As for the case itself, I managed to obtain a copy of the complaint, and
should be posting it on ARGNet sometime this weekend, with a more detailed
explanation of what the campaign entailed.

From mmonello at campfirenyc.com  Fri Oct 23 13:21:03 2009
From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:21:03 -0700
Subject: [arg_discuss] Toyota lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <b8fd5f7a0910231008v4a4d3c18vd345e96c7df84c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7075E3F.1D1C0%mmonello@campfirenyc.com>

That's excellent, Michael. I can't wait to learn more about what this whole campaign was about.

I was chatting with Brian Clark, and I told him the lesson for brands wanting to engage people this way is don't hire your plumber to pilot your plane. Just because you make great traditional advertising doesn't mean you can pull off something immersive like this.

Mike


On 10/23/09 1:08 PM, "Michael Andersen" <mandersen at argn.com> wrote:

As for the case itself, I managed to obtain a copy of the complaint, and
should be posting it on ARGNet sometime this weekend, with a more detailed
explanation of what the campaign entailed.

From annika at sics.se  Mon Oct 26 02:13:39 2009
From: annika at sics.se (Annika Waern)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:13:39 +0100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Any additional info about the Toyota issue?
In-Reply-To: <188b35dd0910151517r3825a7e3qa288f821689c72a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <188b35dd0910151517r3825a7e3qa288f821689c72a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0842A025-8F59-403E-BA39-AF3DC08C173A@sics.se>

Blogged this at http://pervasivegames.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/your-other-you-how-to-win-awards-and-get-sued-at-the-same-time/ 
  . I was able to dig up a couple of pre-lawsuit discussions on the  
campaign that are kind of interesting.

Annika Waern

16 okt 2009 kl. 00.17 skrev John Kaufman:

> http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8776841
>
> If anyone from the company that put this together is on here, I  
> don't expect
> them to respond (since it is an active Legal case), but any links with
> better information about the project or the case would be appreciated.
>
> -John J. Kaufman
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss


From andrhia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 26 09:03:30 2009
From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:03:30 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices
Message-ID: <5c799fd60910260603o2e0395cdsc8a9ec697e254983@mail.gmail.com>

Since we're on the subject already, sort of... I'm pretty sure many of
us have had fabulous ideas that you haven't implemented because of
legal or ethical considerations. Anyone care to share those ideas and
the thought process that led you to ultimately axing them?

My example: for Routes, we wanted to send actors playing the role of
lawyers or policemen on behalf of a big pharmaceutical company to
knock on players' doors and deliver them with mocked-up C&D papers. We
ultimately decided this wouldn't be the right thing to do. One big
issue was the age group we were creating for -- if a teen player's
parents answered the door, it might put the player in a difficult
position, because as with Toyota, the player had opted in but the
parents hadn't. And "But mom, it's for a game" isn't very convincing,
is it?

(Kim, care to weigh in more on the specifics of that particular decision?)

So tell me, sirs and mesdames, where have you chosen to pull your punches?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction

From libfli at aol.com  Mon Oct 26 10:45:13 2009
From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:45:13 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices
In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60910260603o2e0395cdsc8a9ec697e254983@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910260603o2e0395cdsc8a9ec697e254983@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC24620F344A9D-3BD0-12150@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>


 during Sammeeeees i had wanted to have one of the characters, Peeps,
seek refuge with players.  Peeps, on the run from evil Spoocheeeee,
would have shown up on different player's doorsteps unannounced.  so, basically
the core players would be hiding him out and he would stay on the move around
the country. 
decided that it might freak out some players or their significant others, so i decided
against it.  and i'm sure there are legal reasons not to do something like that. :)

Jan



-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:03 am
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices










Since we're on the subject already, sort of... I'm pretty sure many of
us have had fabulous ideas that you haven't implemented because of
legal or ethical considerations. Anyone care to share those ideas and
the thought process that led you to ultimately axing them?

My example: for Routes, we wanted to send actors playing the role of
lawyers or policemen on behalf of a big pharmaceutical company to
knock on players' doors and deliver them with mocked-up C&D papers. We
ultimately decided this wouldn't be the right thing to do. One big
issue was the age group we were creating for -- if a teen player's
parents answered the door, it might put the player in a difficult
position, because as with Toyota, the player had opted in but the
parents hadn't. And "But mom, it's for a game" isn't very convincing,
is it?

(Kim, care to weigh in more on the specifics of that particular decision?)

So tell me, sirs and mesdames, where have you chosen to pull your punches?

-- 
Andrea Phillips
http://www.aaphillips.com
AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
Words * Culture * Interaction
_______________________________________________
ARG_Discuss mailing list
ARG_Discuss at igda.org
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss



 


From marcus.helm at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 17:45:45 2009
From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:45:45 +1100
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices
In-Reply-To: <8CC24620F344A9D-3BD0-12150@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>
References: <5c799fd60910260603o2e0395cdsc8a9ec697e254983@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC24620F344A9D-3BD0-12150@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0910311445k24b12923xcd19adc17748a1a1@mail.gmail.com>

In 2005, tried to set up a hunter/killer game (kind of like Street Wars) in
Adelaide, Australia but this was seen as distateful (mostly by potential
players) given the climate of terror at that time. Not that Australia had
any attacks of its own.

I also read on a forum around that time  ( it might have even been on this
list) that the US patriot act could  be used to crack down on ARG's as
experiences confusable terrorism.

In 2006, I wanted to run a game that had players stalking and videoing
strangers (which were actually other players).
This was raised as a privacy no no when i applied for funding as i had not
planned to get player consent before hand.

Im now trying to get a twitter delivered narrative through an ethics
committee review which im pretty sure wont survive the scrutiny as people
could potentially mistake the fiction for reality and freak out.

Does Sasha Baron Coen have this problem?

hugh

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:45 AM, <libfli at aol.com> wrote:

>
>  during Sammeeeees i had wanted to have one of the characters, Peeps,
> seek refuge with players.  Peeps, on the run from evil Spoocheeeee,
> would have shown up on different player's doorsteps unannounced.  so,
> basically
> the core players would be hiding him out and he would stay on the move
> around
> the country.
> decided that it might freak out some players or their significant others,
> so i decided
> against it.  and i'm sure there are legal reasons not to do something like
> that. :)
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrea Phillips <andrhia at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:03 am
> Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Since we're on the subject already, sort of... I'm pretty sure many of
> us have had fabulous ideas that you haven't implemented because of
> legal or ethical considerations. Anyone care to share those ideas and
> the thought process that led you to ultimately axing them?
>
> My example: for Routes, we wanted to send actors playing the role of
> lawyers or policemen on behalf of a big pharmaceutical company to
> knock on players' doors and deliver them with mocked-up C&D papers. We
> ultimately decided this wouldn't be the right thing to do. One big
> issue was the age group we were creating for -- if a teen player's
> parents answered the door, it might put the player in a difficult
> position, because as with Toyota, the player had opted in but the
> parents hadn't. And "But mom, it's for a game" isn't very convincing,
> is it?
>
> (Kim, care to weigh in more on the specifics of that particular decision?)
>
> So tell me, sirs and mesdames, where have you chosen to pull your punches?
>
> --
> Andrea Phillips
> http://www.aaphillips.com
> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia
> Words * Culture * Interaction
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARG_Discuss mailing list
> ARG_Discuss at igda.org
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss
>

From zenoxbochastle at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 20:22:03 2009
From: zenoxbochastle at gmail.com (Zenox Bochastle)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:22:03 -0400
Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Oct. 26: Choices
In-Reply-To: <4ca6fcda0910311445k24b12923xcd19adc17748a1a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c799fd60910260603o2e0395cdsc8a9ec697e254983@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC24620F344A9D-3BD0-12150@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>
	<4ca6fcda0910311445k24b12923xcd19adc17748a1a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4de8e0ae0910311722i44e2d75ep940f3f4cf593ebe1@mail.gmail.com>

>Does Sasha Baron Coen have this problem?

Heh. SBC barely avoids jail as it is. And he doesn't avoid prosecution.