From rtsl at hotmail.de Wed Jul 1 21:20:42 2009 From: rtsl at hotmail.de (rtsl S.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:20:42 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] [meta] Introductions Message-ID: Hello everyone - my name is Michael Straeubig. I work as an independent game designer. I understand game design in a rather broad sense. My interests include event games, board games, puzzles, alternate reality games, computer and video games, browser games, location based games, augmented reality games, currently not-even-thinkable games, game research, computer art, robotics, interfaces, artificial intelligence. And I love chasing hints and solving puzzles. Past ARGs have already demonstrated an amazing degree of immersion. I do believe there is a big future in these kind of games and I am looking forward to creating experiences that evoke highest levels of anticipation, suspense, communication and activity in the audience. I am interested in exchange of ideas, collaborating on projects and building an economically sustainable structure to launch ARGs. Greetings, Michael Straeubig _________________________________________________________________ http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0906xIE8_MSN4 Internet Explorer 8 jetzt f?r MSN - kostenlos! From andrhia at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 11:46:21 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:46:21 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Let's Welcome the IGDA's New Executive Director! Message-ID: <5c799fd60907020846n7b33a535uc53cb4624f1465e1@mail.gmail.com> Great news, everybody. I've mentioned in chats that the IGDA has been in a transition period recently due to various administrative and technical changes underway. Among other things, the IGDA was searching for a new executive director, and now they've found their man. (Those of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already received the announcement email.) I'd like you to join me in welcoming Joshua Caulfield to the IGDA -- and also to the SIG list. I spoke to him this morning, and he seems both charming and thoroughly capable, so I think we're in good hands. ;) Those of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already received the announcement email. For more information, you can read the Gamasutra article: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24300 The official IGDA announcement: http://www.igda.org/newsroom/EDAnnouncement.pdf Or you can read about the gentleman in his own words, in the new IGDA staff blog: http://igdaed.wordpress.com/ -- Andrea Phillips http://www.deusexmachinatio.com Words * Culture * Interaction From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:47:43 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:47:43 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week June 29: How's the SIG? In-Reply-To: <46c4cdce0906300135n6f67c539uacbd5678fa4e21e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60906290555n7fc8d6by5232feded76be069@mail.gmail.com> <4A48FE14.6020505@uta.fi> <46c4cdce0906300135n6f67c539uacbd5678fa4e21e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907021347u5fc67f94tef6318902895600d@mail.gmail.com> As far as I'm concerned, the SIG has started brought me a better understanding of how the system of Alternate Reality Games production works, as well as letting me see what designers think about their emerging profession - something I had only been able to theorize about so far since I hardly was in touch with designers in the first place ! That's the first thing that comes to mind - but there are plenty little things I'm discovering here and there thanks to the list archives or IRC conversations on the channel these days. Thanks for all this, by the way ! T. From marcus.helm at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 01:09:48 2009 From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:09:48 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Let's Welcome the IGDA's New Executive Director! In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907020846n7b33a535uc53cb4624f1465e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907020846n7b33a535uc53cb4624f1465e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0907022209n74726d98m39804cf54d41d81d@mail.gmail.com> Welcome aboard Joshua. Great to have you. hugh On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Great news, everybody. I've mentioned in chats that the IGDA has been > in a transition period recently due to various administrative and > technical changes underway. Among other things, the IGDA was searching > for a new executive director, and now they've found their man. (Those > of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already received > the announcement email.) > > I'd like you to join me in welcoming Joshua Caulfield to the IGDA -- > and also to the SIG list. I spoke to him this morning, and he seems > both charming and thoroughly capable, so I think we're in good hands. > ;) > > Those of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already > received the announcement email. > For more information, you can read the Gamasutra article: > http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24300 > The official IGDA announcement: > http://www.igda.org/newsroom/EDAnnouncement.pdf > Or you can read about the gentleman in his own words, in the new IGDA > staff blog: http://igdaed.wordpress.com/ > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From jeff at nonchalance.com Fri Jul 3 02:11:35 2009 From: jeff at nonchalance.com (Jeff Hull) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:11:35 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions Message-ID: Good Evening, My name is Jeff Hull and I am part of the Nonchalance group, producers of the Jejune Institute in San Francisco. Our creative focus is on tangible real world immersive narrative experiences (based in geography & actual space). We aren't from a "gamers" background, and are fairly ignorant about the existing conventions of ARG's. So, as presenters at this month's Fest-O-Con in Portland, we are currently taking a crash course. Nice to meet you. Best, Jeff : : ELSEWHERE PUBLIC WORKS AGENCY : : http://www.elsewherepublicworksagency.com _________________________ Beware The Jejune Institute!!! http://www.jejuneinstitute.org From bclark at gmdstudios.com Fri Jul 3 09:48:22 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:48:22 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <165696C1BF5D432D84AB805993F4B206@Tricorder> Welcome to the SIG, Jeff -- You're having what I call the "I'm a WHATmaster?" experience: don't worry, many of us came into this community similarly (at the moment that our work got labeled by others as ARG.) Even at ARGfest there's a tradition of that (the Lonely Girl creators, Lance Weiler and others fell into the community similarly and shared that experience at former conventions.) Looking forward to meeting you in Portland. Brian -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Hull Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 2:12 AM To: arg_discuss at igda.org Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions Good Evening, My name is Jeff Hull and I am part of the Nonchalance group, producers of the Jejune Institute in San Francisco. Our creative focus is on tangible real world immersive narrative experiences (based in geography & actual space). We aren't from a "gamers" background, and are fairly ignorant about the existing conventions of ARG's. So, as presenters at this month's Fest-O-Con in Portland, we are currently taking a crash course. Nice to meet you. Best, Jeff : : ELSEWHERE PUBLIC WORKS AGENCY : : http://www.elsewherepublicworksagency.com _________________________ Beware The Jejune Institute!!! http://www.jejuneinstitute.org _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From jeff at nonchalance.com Fri Jul 3 12:47:06 2009 From: jeff at nonchalance.com (Jeff Hull) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:47:06 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions In-Reply-To: <165696C1BF5D432D84AB805993F4B206@Tricorder> References: <165696C1BF5D432D84AB805993F4B206@Tricorder> Message-ID: <5F038A85-9797-4099-822B-2CBA508B606C@nonchalance.com> the "I'm a WHATmaster?" experience Haha, exactly. On Jul 3, 2009, at 6:48 AM, Brian Clark wrote: > Welcome to the SIG, Jeff -- > > You're having what I call the "I'm a WHATmaster?" experience: don't > worry, > many of us came into this community similarly (at the moment that > our work > got labeled by others as ARG.) Even at ARGfest there's a tradition > of that > (the Lonely Girl creators, Lance Weiler and others fell into the > community > similarly and shared that experience at former conventions.) > > Looking forward to meeting you in Portland. > > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > ] On > Behalf Of Jeff Hull > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 2:12 AM > To: arg_discuss at igda.org > Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions > > Good Evening, > My name is Jeff Hull and I am part of the Nonchalance group, producers > of the Jejune Institute in San Francisco. Our creative focus is on > tangible real world immersive narrative experiences (based in > geography & actual space). We aren't from a "gamers" background, and > are fairly ignorant about the existing conventions of ARG's. So, as > presenters at this month's Fest-O-Con in Portland, we are currently > taking a crash course. Nice to meet you. > > Best, > Jeff > > > : : ELSEWHERE PUBLIC WORKS AGENCY > : : http://www.elsewherepublicworksagency.com > _________________________ > Beware The Jejune Institute!!! > http://www.jejuneinstitute.org > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss : : ELSEWHERE PUBLIC WORKS AGENCY : : 510.260.7527 : : jeff at nonchalance.com : : http://www.elsewherepublicworksagency.com _________________________ Beware The Jejune Institute!!! http://www.jejuneinstitute.org From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 14:38:21 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:38:21 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Introductions In-Reply-To: <5F038A85-9797-4099-822B-2CBA508B606C@nonchalance.com> References: <165696C1BF5D432D84AB805993F4B206@Tricorder> <5F038A85-9797-4099-822B-2CBA508B606C@nonchalance.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907031138l715ba4b5o5b9a2cc789cfc79b@mail.gmail.com> Welcome to the list Jeff - a very kind ensemble of people by all means, they'll treat you right. T. From andres at jengibre.com.ar Sat Jul 4 12:05:34 2009 From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 13:05:34 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Argology blacklisted Message-ID: <50c963550907040905j6c4ef4fegc4d78fb1ae678a63@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys and gals, I was browsing to the argology site today and it was reported as an attack site Quoting Firefox: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reported Attack Site! This web site at www.argology.org has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences. Attack sites try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system. Some attack sites intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Upon closer inspection I noticed that on the end of the source code there is this iframe that definitely looks suspicious: So unless someone put it there on purpose, I strongly suggest inmediate removal! If you need any technical help just let me know on or off list -- Andr?s Mart?nez Quijano Jengibre http://www.jengibre.com.ar From btradish at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 15:43:11 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 15:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Argology blacklisted Message-ID: <15362509.1246736592303.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks, Andres. I cleaned up the site, updated Wordpress, changed the passwords and requested a review from Google, so that message should disappear soon. -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com -----Original Message----- >From: "Andres M. Quijano" >Sent: Jul 4, 2009 12:05 PM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: [arg_discuss] Argology blacklisted > >Hey guys and gals, I was browsing to the argology site today and it >was reported as an attack site [snip] From andres at jengibre.com.ar Sun Jul 5 09:45:36 2009 From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:45:36 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version Message-ID: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> Hello Just wanted to share with you a small blog post I just wrote. The idea is to explain what ARGs are not by defining them, but by showing examples, so there are a few links to case studies and videos that show some http://www.jengibre.com.ar/2009/07/args/ And in spanish: http://www.jengibre.com.ar/2009/07/args/?lang=es Cheers -- Andr?s Mart?nez Quijano Jengibre http://www.jengibre.com.ar From asirangelo at yahoo.com.br Sun Jul 5 11:19:13 2009 From: asirangelo at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Sirangelo?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nice, Andres. Thanks for the link to Zona Incerta. So how are ARGs doing in Argentina these days? Better than in Brazil i hope :) Andr? www.zonaincerta.com.br ________________________________ De: Andres M. Quijano Para: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Enviadas: Domingo, 5 de Julho de 2009 10:45:36 Assunto: [arg_discuss] What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version Hello Just wanted to share with you a small blog post I just wrote. The idea is to explain what ARGs are not by defining them, but by showing examples, so there are a few links to case studies and videos that show some http://www.jengibre.com.ar/2009/07/args/ And in spanish: http://www.jengibre.com.ar/2009/07/args/?lang=es Cheers -- Andr?s Mart?nez Quijano Jengibre http://www.jengibre.com.ar _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss ____________________________________________________________________________________ Veja quais s?o os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 08:54:48 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:54:48 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard Message-ID: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have been so much fun? :) -- Andrea Phillips http://www.deusexmachinatio.com Words * Culture * Interaction From dflor71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 10:42:34 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:42:34 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580907060742i3f56c0p807a97e2ecb78a29@mail.gmail.com> I have loads of ideas swirling about in my head, but the problem is that none of them quite fit in to the theme of the game I'm currently developing. Most of them are technical in nature, which doesn't go with my current plans (fantasy themed). And there's this one idea I have on laser etching a cypher on the surface of the moon... Damn NASA pricing to keep that just out of my price range! I've actually done the code work for some of these ideas, and still hope I can use some of them eventually, so I'll keep my mouth shut about them. :) On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I > absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at > the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) > > What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you > ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep > coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? > And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one > project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have > been so much fun? :) > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 12:20:08 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:20:08 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGfest09: Lunch, anyone? Message-ID: <5c799fd60907060920n57cee476me8f3bc3440b20a41@mail.gmail.com> Looks like a number of us will be heading out to ARGfest '09 in a couple of weeks. I've been toying with the idea of trying to get we SIG members together for lunch that Saturday, since we'll be at a loose end anyhow. Anybody interested? And if so, suggestions on where we should go? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.deusexmachinatio.com Words * Culture * Interaction From jeromy at 12thstreethouse.com Mon Jul 6 13:03:12 2009 From: jeromy at 12thstreethouse.com (Jeromy Barber) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:03:12 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> A musician told me an interesting Stevie Wonder story last week. Someone asked him how he had so many hits during a certain period of his life... There were like three years where he just couldn't miss. Stevie explained that during this period he was writing 10 songs a day, and not just music and lyrics. He was writing full arrangements... horns, drums, BGVs, the works. He said it was just a numbers game at that point. I think you elaborate as fully as you can your graveyard ideas and then, like Stevie, it's a numbers game. The best ideas will be obvious to you and others you are collaborating with. Jeromy -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:55 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have been so much fun? :) -- Andrea Phillips http://www.deusexmachinatio.com Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From jeff at nonchalance.com Mon Jul 6 13:51:14 2009 From: jeff at nonchalance.com (Jeff Hull) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:51:14 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> Message-ID: <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> I can identify, Andrea; sometimes I feel like an idea faucet without a proper receptacle. Over the years I came to realize that every new creative concept has a time & a place, and opportunities will eventually present themselves for each idea to take hold. Your great ideas of yore will rise from the graveyard and become the obvious option when the time is right (considering budget, schedule, theme etc.) Otherwise, it can be a strange pleasure to watch others have & execute your ideas if you wait long enough. - Jeff Hull : : ELSEWHERE PUBLIC WORKS AGENCY : : http://www.elsewherepublicworksagency.com _________________________ Beware The Jejune Institute!!! http://www.jejuneinstitute.org On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Jeromy Barber wrote: > A musician told me an interesting Stevie Wonder story last week. > Someone > asked him how he had so many hits during a certain period of his > life... > There were like three years where he just couldn't miss. Stevie > explained > that during this period he was writing 10 songs a day, and not just > music > and lyrics. He was writing full arrangements... horns, drums, BGVs, > the > works. He said it was just a numbers game at that point. > > I think you elaborate as fully as you can your graveyard ideas and > then, > like Stevie, it's a numbers game. The best ideas will be obvious to > you and > others you are collaborating with. > > Jeromy > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > ] On > Behalf Of Andrea Phillips > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:55 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard > > As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I > absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at > the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) > > What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you > ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep > coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? > And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one > project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have > been so much fun? :) > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From scpeters at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 15:13:33 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:13:33 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com><000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> Message-ID: I've got an Evernote "Cool stuff to maybe use in games" folder, so I can instantly drag stuff I come across into it as I surf or things come across my feeds (my list of RSS feeds I subscribe to is like gold, to me). But, I also have a leatherbound journal that I use for notes, ideas, puzzles, etc. I use these things all the time for brainstorming, and they've actually come in very handy. Partly because I have such a crappy memory. :P What's IN this journal is reserved for beer-table discussion at ARGFest, if I can yet make it! SP > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > ] On > Behalf Of Andrea Phillips > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:55 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard > > As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I > absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at > the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) > > What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you > ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep > coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? > And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one > project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have > been so much fun? :) > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From joshuacaulfield at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 15:26:55 2009 From: joshuacaulfield at gmail.com (Joshua Caulfield) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:26:55 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Let's Welcome the IGDA's New Executive Director! In-Reply-To: <4ca6fcda0907022209n74726d98m39804cf54d41d81d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907020846n7b33a535uc53cb4624f1465e1@mail.gmail.com> <4ca6fcda0907022209n74726d98m39804cf54d41d81d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <396d56300907061226w511d7639g6999fb1f00d8bc79@mail.gmail.com> Thanks all, I look forward to working with each of you in the future. Sincerely, Joshua On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Hugh Davies wrote: > Welcome aboard Joshua. > Great to have you. > hugh > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > > Great news, everybody. I've mentioned in chats that the IGDA has been > > in a transition period recently due to various administrative and > > technical changes underway. Among other things, the IGDA was searching > > for a new executive director, and now they've found their man. (Those > > of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already received > > the announcement email.) > > > > I'd like you to join me in welcoming Joshua Caulfield to the IGDA -- > > and also to the SIG list. I spoke to him this morning, and he seems > > both charming and thoroughly capable, so I think we're in good hands. > > ;) > > > > Those of you who are card-carrying IGDA members may have already > > received the announcement email. > > For more information, you can read the Gamasutra article: > > http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24300 > > The official IGDA announcement: > > http://www.igda.org/newsroom/EDAnnouncement.pdf > > Or you can read about the gentleman in his own words, in the new IGDA > > staff blog: http://igdaed.wordpress.com/ > > > > -- > > Andrea Phillips > > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From andres at jengibre.com.ar Mon Jul 6 18:53:03 2009 From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 19:53:03 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> Oi Andr? I always talk about Zona Incerta, that video is very instructive and, of course, I get to talk about "the events that created the ARG day"! ARGs in ARGentina? A disaster... 0 so far, so much much worse than Brazil On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Andr? Sirangelo wrote: > Nice, Andres. > Thanks for the link to Zona Incerta. > > So how are ARGs doing in Argentina these days? > Better than in Brazil i hope ?:) > > Andr? > www.zonaincerta.com.br From btradish at earthlink.net Mon Jul 6 21:17:40 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard Message-ID: <26324237.1246929460287.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I don't think of it as a "graveyard", more as an area of cold storage, ideas waiting for the right opportunity to be used. I suppose there is one I can share, though, because I think it's pretty cool but at the same time possibly unworkable. Let's imagine that, in the storyline of this particular experience, there are competing factions doing secretive things over the internet. They have constructed a sort of "under-net" that piggybacks over the regular internet. If you have the right software (perhaps a browser toolbar) you can find the secret "installations" on various websites. So, for example, you could see secret links, bits of text or mini-chatrooms with NPCs saying stuff, all interspersed into the normal content of, say, a Google search. The way I envision this working is that going to a URL would prompt the toolbar to query the game server and see if it was approved for in-game content; weird stuff showing up on the Google home page would probably be okay (as long as we make sure people realize that it comes from the game and not Google, and we also make sure they know how to turn it off). Then another thing you could do would be to "scan" a page, and that would look for special in-game markup tags, maybe a secret hacker (NPC) chatroom or file dump. The really cool possibility here is that the players could figure out the markup tags and create a webpage that became part of the in-game universe; perhaps that would be the only way to find some of the content (as the "real" in-game webpages would never use certain tags or values). I know there are probably privacy concerns with this idea, but I figure this whole conversation is just brainstorming, so... Of course, there's already a nifty site called "The Nethernet" that does about 75-80% of what I describe, and they've worked it up into a slick game experience. (Basically, the idea of The Nethernet is: When you go to a webpage, your toolbar sends the URL to the Nethernet server to see if there is any content for that page. I believe the URL is the *only* thing that is ever transmitted and that the webpages are not "scanned" in any way.) Check it out: http://thenethernet.com -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com http://thenethernet.com/join/chaoseed -----Original Message----- >From: Andrea Phillips >Sent: Jul 6, 2009 8:54 AM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard > >As I'm sure many of you are, I've grown quite a graveyard of ideas I >absolutely love, but that didn't ultimately fit into the project at >the time. (Budget, schedule, theme -- you know how it is.) > >What do you all do with these ideas? How many do you have? Have you >ever had the opportunity to recycle one, or do you prefer to just keep >coming up with new ones? How many do you have floating around, anyway? >And: Any that were so niche they'd only have fit into that one >project, but you're bursting to talk about it because it would have >been so much fun? :) > >-- >Andrea Phillips >http://www.deusexmachinatio.com >Words * Culture * Interaction >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 02:16:26 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:16:26 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> Hi Andr?, Andres, Why do you think Alternate Reality Games are so absent from your countries ? Lack of funding ? Lack of consideration ? Lack of equipment for the players ? Just curious, T. From me at addlepated.net Mon Jul 6 15:20:55 2009 From: me at addlepated.net (D. Cook) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:20:55 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com><000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> Message-ID: <5C96F493-D113-46B2-BD6A-F90F7F3EF0C9@addlepated.net> Yeah, I have a text file of cool ideas for puzzles, plot points, and the like that I add to every once in a while. Which I also tend to populate from random stories from my RSS feed. I have the best source for these things that I will possibly spill at ARGFest, if I am in a state for remembering where it is. -D. On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Steve Peters wrote: > I've got an Evernote "Cool stuff to maybe use in games" folder, so I > can > instantly drag stuff I come across into it as I surf or things come > across > my feeds (my list of RSS feeds I subscribe to is like gold, to me). > > But, I also have a leatherbound journal that I use for notes, ideas, > puzzles, etc. > > I use these things all the time for brainstorming, and they've > actually come > in very handy. Partly because I have such a crappy memory. :P > > What's IN this journal is reserved for beer-table discussion at > ARGFest, if > I can yet make it! > > SP From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 08:22:51 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:22:51 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5C96F493-D113-46B2-BD6A-F90F7F3EF0C9@addlepated.net> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5C96F493-D113-46B2-BD6A-F90F7F3EF0C9@addlepated.net> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907070522v74f3e69axeb0cd77c51ef7bde@mail.gmail.com> I will so be working to get that out of you. ;) On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:20 PM, D. Cook wrote: > Yeah, I have a text file of cool ideas for puzzles, plot points, and the > like that I add to every once in a while. ?Which I also tend to populate > from random stories from my RSS feed. > > I have the best source for these things that I will possibly spill at > ARGFest, if I am in a state for remembering where it is. > > -D. > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Steve Peters wrote: > >> I've got an Evernote "Cool stuff to maybe use in games" folder, so I can >> instantly drag stuff I come across into it as I surf or things come across >> my feeds (my list of RSS feeds I subscribe to is like gold, to me). >> >> But, I also have a leatherbound journal that I use for notes, ideas, >> puzzles, etc. >> >> I use these things all the time for brainstorming, and they've actually >> come >> in very handy. Partly because I have such a crappy memory. :P >> >> What's IN this journal is reserved for beer-table discussion at ARGFest, >> if >> I can yet make it! >> >> SP > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.deusexmachinatio.com Words * Culture * Interaction From asirangelo at yahoo.com.br Tue Jul 7 09:01:42 2009 From: asirangelo at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Sirangelo?=) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 06:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Thomas, Here in Brazil we've had a reasonable number of games in 2006-07, with solid results and a dedicated player base. It's hard to point a reason but I believe the absence of games in the past 2 years has to do with the skepticism of clients and ad agencies towards the efficiency of a campaign based on viral websites/puzzles/storytelling versus a more conventional campaign using traditional media. Broadband and social networks numbers in Brazil are pretty impressive, but we've been under a kind of corporate media monopoly for several decades now, and people are just not running away from traditional media as fast as in other countries. So you can't discuss that it's just more effective to clients to advertise on the #1 TV network during a telenovela or to sponsor Big Brother and the football games. Also there's what could be called the "Fake Houdini effect" (Houdini had all these cheap imitators and they were SO bad that when the REAL Houdini came to a town where they have been, audiences would flee and avoid him thinking it was another fake). We had our share of ARGs or wannabe ARGs run by clueless ad agencies, some of them backfired in horrible ways, others were simply terrible from beginning to end. Some corporate clients and agencies have become traumatized by these experiments and are afraid to invest again... So, yeah. :) best, Andr? ________________________________ De: Thomas Maillioux Para: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Enviadas: Ter?a-feira, 7 de Julho de 2009 3:16:26 Assunto: Re: [arg_discuss] Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version Hi Andr?, Andres, Why do you think Alternate Reality Games are so absent from your countries ? Lack of funding ? Lack of consideration ? Lack of equipment for the players ? Just curious, T. _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss ____________________________________________________________________________________ Veja quais s?o os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com From andres at jengibre.com.ar Tue Jul 7 09:26:51 2009 From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:26:51 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com> In here I can't tell precisely what the reason is. Personally, I talked about ARGs in a conference and the audience was thrilled and kept asking me where and when they could play one. When I go to an agency and tell them about ARGs and showcase some case studies, they usually say "wow, that's great!" but in the end, they are afraid to innovate... follow the money, do the known and true (and old and boring...). Also, because we are a, relatively small market, budgets for advertising are a tiny fraction of what they are in Europe and US But I still have hope :D On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Andr? Sirangelo wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Here in Brazil we've had a reasonable number of games in 2006-07, with solid results and a dedicated player base. It's hard to point a reason but I believe the absence of games in the past 2 years has to do with the skepticism of clients and ad agencies towards the efficiency of a campaign based on viral websites/puzzles/storytelling versus a more conventional campaign using traditional media. > > Broadband and social networks numbers in Brazil are pretty impressive, but we've been under a kind of corporate media monopoly for several decades now, and people are just not running away from traditional media as fast as in other countries. So you can't discuss that it's just more effective to clients to advertise on the #1 TV network during a telenovela or to sponsor Big Brother and the football games. > > Also there's what could be called the "Fake Houdini effect" (Houdini had all these cheap imitators and they were SO bad that when the REAL Houdini came to a town where they have been, audiences would flee and avoid him thinking it was another fake). We had our share of ARGs or wannabe ARGs run by clueless ad agencies, some of them backfired in horrible ways, others were simply terrible from beginning to end. Some corporate clients and agencies have become traumatized by these experiments and are afraid to invest again... So, yeah. :) > > best, > Andr? From bclark at gmdstudios.com Tue Jul 7 09:58:11 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:58:11 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder> Fascinating conversation here about emerging markets, and something Andres pointed out might be worth a side conversation: > they usually say "wow, that's great!" but in the end, they > are afraid to innovate... follow the money, do the known and > true (and old and boring...). To be fair, what you describe is the same here in the US market (but I don't think it is innovation they fear, it is perceived riskiness.) Over the years, I've found a few techniques that can be helpful in making that case. 1. Lead with measurement. An ARG (or other innovation) shouldn't be something that's unmeasureable, or means buying into some alternate metrics schema. Find out what bell the client wants to ring (perception, awareness, sales, etc.) and show how you'll show them you're ringing that bell. 2. No ARG is an island. No one should be pitching to an agency doing an ARG instead of an advertising campaign: focus on how the ARG element of a campaign to help every other channel produce more results. After all, that media spend is where you're going to build your audience. 3. Explain away the chaos. Help an agency understand that they'll be able to manage you managing the chaos, show them the kinds of documents you'll use to do that. 4. Evangelize the power of iteration. Help an agency understand that unlike traditional campaigns, those metrics and processes will allow you to improve the chances of success from direct audience feedback. None of those things necessarily solve all the problems for every agency and client and market, but if I go in anticipating those kinds of concerns I find I can derail a lot of the more common fear-based objections. And, to be honest, that advice is more general than ARGs (as similar rules work for other places where you're helping an agency innovate outside of their core practice.) Great conversation, love learning more about the details in different markets (I'm always as struck by the similarities as much as the differences.) Best, Brian From dflor71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 10:08:58 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:08:58 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907070522v74f3e69axeb0cd77c51ef7bde@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5C96F493-D113-46B2-BD6A-F90F7F3EF0C9@addlepated.net> <5c799fd60907070522v74f3e69axeb0cd77c51ef7bde@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580907070708s57f01dc6gc9cf636a1e0f08f7@mail.gmail.com> Damn you all, you're all just making me regret not going to ARGFest even more. I would have loved to extract... er... I mean discuss... some of your ideas. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > I will so be working to get that out of you. ;) > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:20 PM, D. Cook wrote: >> Yeah, I have a text file of cool ideas for puzzles, plot points, and the >> like that I add to every once in a while. ?Which I also tend to populate >> from random stories from my RSS feed. >> >> I have the best source for these things that I will possibly spill at >> ARGFest, if I am in a state for remembering where it is. >> >> -D. >> >> On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Steve Peters wrote: >> >>> I've got an Evernote "Cool stuff to maybe use in games" folder, so I can >>> instantly drag stuff I come across into it as I surf or things come across >>> my feeds (my list of RSS feeds I subscribe to is like gold, to me). >>> >>> But, I also have a leatherbound journal that I use for notes, ideas, >>> puzzles, etc. >>> >>> I use these things all the time for brainstorming, and they've actually >>> come >>> in very handy. Partly because I have such a crappy memory. :P >>> >>> What's IN this journal is reserved for beer-table discussion at ARGFest, >>> if >>> I can yet make it! >>> >>> SP >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.deusexmachinatio.com > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 13:29:10 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:29:10 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <50b4b0580907070708s57f01dc6gc9cf636a1e0f08f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5C96F493-D113-46B2-BD6A-F90F7F3EF0C9@addlepated.net> <5c799fd60907070522v74f3e69axeb0cd77c51ef7bde@mail.gmail.com> <50b4b0580907070708s57f01dc6gc9cf636a1e0f08f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907071029p52c94b71v1ea065ebc4db6fbc@mail.gmail.com> 2 cents time ! Much like Jeff, I have a notebook where ideas land sooner or later before being used or coldpac'd for later use. The deciding factors for ideas/projects/puzzles to remain stuck there are either : Theme : doesn't quite fit the overall theme of the game/adventure being offered Mechanics : too complicated for the target audience/faulty in a way or another Timing : project suffers from a lack of time, preventing everyone that could be involved to meet up and plan something definitive. That's about it really - the last few months have seen me focusing on my job as a librarian and writing about ARGs instead of designing/writing anything directly related. T. 2009/7/7 David Flor > Damn you all, you're all just making me regret not going to ARGFest > even more. I would have loved to extract... er... I mean discuss... > some of your ideas. From RKenski at abril.com.br Tue Jul 7 15:35:33 2009 From: RKenski at abril.com.br (Rafael Kenski) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:35:33 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] RES: Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com> <03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder> Message-ID: <8C464687123DB949AB362B7E81CB67E5406FE0E334@ABNEAWMBP001.gabril.com.br> Thank you very much for these techniques, Brian. They'll be helpful. I've been pitching ARGs and new storytelling tools to dozens of agencies here in Brazil for more than two years, and it has been a difficult and frustrating task. Below are some of the reasons I've compiled for why it is so. I believe some of them can be found anywhere in the world, but I'm trying to give you an overview of what is like selling an ARG in Brazil. 1. Big media still works in Brazil. Television is still very popular and can reach much of our demographic, even if it is not anymore in its glorious days. We don't have TiVo or DVRs, and broadband and videogames are not as widespread as in developed countries. The same with magazines, which have been increasing in sales for the last couple of years (propelled mostly by a recent increase in the consumption power of the lower classes of Brazilian society). We still have the so called "Big Audiences", and a long and well developed tradition of advertising on them. We don't really need ARGs to reach an specific group. They sound like a luxury to advertiser's ears. 2. Agencies are focused in big media. The advertising market in Brazil works very much like an oligopoly, with few big agencies taking a huge part of the advertising budget. They get their earnings by charging commissions for the whole campaign, so these agencies work by the logic of the taking the simplest, fastest and easiest way to spend the money and reach an audience. They don't want a multi-phased story, spread by hundreds of media they have never heard about. They want a 30 second script. They don't need anything more complex than that. In most agencies I've visited, people have never heard about many basic concepts of online tools or social networks. (Disclaimer: I am, of course, stereotyping. There are many good and open minded professionals in these agencies that are not afraid of innovation. But what I just wrote is not THAT far from the truth). 3. Unsophisticated media strategies. It's very hard to meet a potential client whose goal is not "increase sales" or "show my product to as many people as you can". I know ARGs and crossmedia tools can also "ring these bells", but they are not especially good at it - at least not as good as TV Globo, a media behemoth whose owner has once been called "the Brazilian Citizen Kane". Engagement, as a marketing strategy, is an issue I've never seen in the wild (just in books). 4. Fear. It doesn't matter how hard you try to explain away the chaos, it is really hard to pitch an innovative tool to a client that can barely understand what Creative Commons means. Specially when he works in a big company (or big agency) and has to pitch your idea to his boss and his boss's boss. He doesn't understand, gets scared and play safe. In his logic, no one has ever been fired for producing a magazine page or a TV spot, doesn't matter how bad they are. But in ARGs and related ventures, he doesn't know, and suddenly changes his mental software status to . I've also heard a lot of "wow, that's great", and, since our "arg studio" is actually a special branch of a magazine publishing group, this phrase usually ends with a "but give me just a magazine page, ok?" 5. ARGs have become a bad word. We've had some very good ARGs in Brazil (like our Zona Incerta and the ones produced by MTV), but we've also had many terrible ones, with the lamest characters you could imagine and a story so compelling that would make washing dishes look like an exciting adventure. Obviously, they didn't reach their goals, but the worst part is that many of them didn't even finish the campaign - the client sensed it would be a waste of money and exhanged the ARGuish elements for more traditional ones. So, in many companies, the word "ARG" is a password that transfers your pitching to the land of the "I don't want to ever see you again". Except for Zona Incerta (which we sold when ARG was still an unknown word), every other campaign we've had was sold as "just a story", a "transmedia experience" or even "a collaborative movie". 6. Metric. And now I have to make a mea-culpa. As far as I know, we Brazilian puppetmasters have never had the time, money, skill or know-how to develop a good metric to ARGs. All we have to offer are pageviews, unique visitors and comments in forums. Had we had a good metric - as Brian pointed out - I think it would be way easier to overcome the barriers mentioned above. That's it. I've been lurking for quite a while (not proud of that...), but I'll try to bring you some updates on what is happening here. As Sirangelo pointed out, it is not a pretty picture. But you can always find some good things. :) Regards, Rafael -----Mensagem original----- De: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] Em nome de Brian Clark Enviada em: ter?a-feira, 7 de julho de 2009 10:58 Para: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG' Assunto: Re: [arg_discuss] Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version Fascinating conversation here about emerging markets, and something Andres pointed out might be worth a side conversation: > they usually say "wow, that's great!" but in the end, they > are afraid to innovate... follow the money, do the known and > true (and old and boring...). To be fair, what you describe is the same here in the US market (but I don't think it is innovation they fear, it is perceived riskiness.) Over the years, I've found a few techniques that can be helpful in making that case. 1. Lead with measurement. An ARG (or other innovation) shouldn't be something that's unmeasureable, or means buying into some alternate metrics schema. Find out what bell the client wants to ring (perception, awareness, sales, etc.) and show how you'll show them you're ringing that bell. 2. No ARG is an island. No one should be pitching to an agency doing an ARG instead of an advertising campaign: focus on how the ARG element of a campaign to help every other channel produce more results. After all, that media spend is where you're going to build your audience. 3. Explain away the chaos. Help an agency understand that they'll be able to manage you managing the chaos, show them the kinds of documents you'll use to do that. 4. Evangelize the power of iteration. Help an agency understand that unlike traditional campaigns, those metrics and processes will allow you to improve the chances of success from direct audience feedback. None of those things necessarily solve all the problems for every agency and client and market, but if I go in anticipating those kinds of concerns I find I can derail a lot of the more common fear-based objections. And, to be honest, that advice is more general than ARGs (as similar rules work for other places where you're helping an agency innovate outside of their core practice.) Great conversation, love learning more about the details in different markets (I'm always as struck by the similarities as much as the differences.) Best, Brian _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss ___________________________________________________ AVISO LEGAL: Esta mensagem e arquivo(s) podem conter informa??es confidenciais e/ou legalmente protegidas. Caso tenha recebido por engano, favor devolv?-la ao remetente e elimin?-la do seu sistema, n?o divulgando ou utilizando a totalidade ou parte desta mensagem ou dos documentos a ela anexados. LEGAL NOTICE: This message and attached document(s) may contain information of confidential nature and/or legally protected. If you have received this message by mistake, please reply to the sender, eliminate it from your system and do not disclose or use this message or the attached documents, in whole or in part. _____________________________________________________ From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Tue Jul 7 23:15:32 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 20:15:32 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] RES: Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <8C464687123DB949AB362B7E81CB67E5406FE0E334@ABNEAWMBP001.gabril.com.br> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com> <282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com> <25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com> <429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com> <03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder> <8C464687123DB949AB362B7E81CB67E5406FE0E334@ABNEAWMBP001.gabril.com.br> Message-ID: <959F2BAA-E038-4B2F-B044-E5C4755FCE9B@campfirenyc.com> On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:05 PM, "Rafael Kenski" wrote: > 3. Unsophisticated media strategies. It's very hard to meet a > potential client whose goal is not "increase sales" or "show my > product to as many people as you can". I know ARGs and crossmedia > tools can also "ring these bells", but they are not especially good > at it - at least not as good as TV Globo, a media behemoth whose > owner has once been called "the Brazilian Citizen Kane". Engagement, > as a marketing strategy, is an issue I've never seen in the wild > (just in books). Interesting, because I think this is one area where a well-done ARG can be far more effective than traditional media, particularly for products that have a more complicated sell, or require more than the usual keywords to differentiate (for example, "performance" in the automobile category). One issue I see with ARGs in marketing is that the story, game design, and technology are top notch, but the thought behind the marketing or communications can fall short and that tends to be a big issue for potential clients, as that's the one area most of them know well. If the marketing message isn't built into the core of the story and game design in some way, most marketers will see it as having no value to them. Given the online/offline nature of ARGs, if moving product is a key metric, you should be able to design a program that will do this and be measurable. You might even consider structuring your fee around this - if you don't meet certain agreed upon metrics, client pays you less than they would normally and if you exceed those metrics you get paid more than you would normally. If the client thinks you have some skin in the game, they are more likely to take a bit of risk with you. Mike http://www.campfirenyc.com/ Sent from a smart(-ish) phone. From bclark at gmdstudios.com Wed Jul 8 09:42:29 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:42:29 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] RES: Res: Res: What is an ARG? minimal, skeptic, nihilistic version In-Reply-To: <959F2BAA-E038-4B2F-B044-E5C4755FCE9B@campfirenyc.com> References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com><282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com><25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com><429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com><03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder><8C464687123DB949AB362B7E81CB67E5406FE0E334@ABNEAWMBP001.gabril.com.br> <959F2BAA-E038-4B2F-B044-E5C4755FCE9B@campfirenyc.com> Message-ID: Some great conversation fodder here for the morning coffee. Mike wrote: > One issue I see with ARGs in marketing is that the story, game > design, and technology are top notch, but the thought behind > the marketing or communications can fall short With all respects to my colleagues, I've got to totally agree with Mike on this one. Mike and I had a rambling conversation at SXSW while heckling the branded entertainment panel about how much of the community is still focused on the "sponsored content" model and hasn't moved beyond that. I think it is at least part of the reason why both Mike and I use a lot of sideshow circus language: there's an acknowledgement there that the marketing is part of the show. Rafael wrote: > Engagement, as a marketing strategy, is an issue I've never > seen in the wild (just in books). Now that statement is fascinating to me, and I'd love to hear you expand on it more. Here in the US, engagement is both something that marketers ask for and that there are metrics surrounding. >From my POV, Rafael, you should try to let go of "the use traditional media instead of ARGs" as a dichotomy. I'd never recommend marketers to stop funding something that was working to try something new ... but a savvy marketer keeps 5% to 10% of their budget in more experimental forms. That said, I think experience designs like ARGs aren't at all about "reach metrics" (like television is) and all about "engagement metrics" (like much of the rest of the Web is also.) That means they work in tandem with media strategies. Rafael also wrote: > As far as I know, we Brazilian puppetmasters have never had > the time, money, skill or know-how to develop a good metric > to ARGs. All we have to offer are pageviews, unique visitors > and comments in forums. A surprising number of US/European firms are similarly focused on those "activity metrics" plus the elusive never-defined "X number of players" citation. Personally, I don't think they hold a lot of value (or even more specifically, when the media spend is happening all those metrics go up but "pages per visit" and "stick time" and other engagement metrics go down ... stop the media spend, and the one set drops while the other rises.) Here's the good news: I don't think the community needs to invest any time or skill to develop a new metric for ARGs. Like Mike mentioned, experience design can be crafted to ring any metric bell you might be interested in. What we've found, predictably from form to form, is that if you engage an audience you see a qualitative difference in all of those other metrics. It is about finding out which metrics the client already values, and then contemplating how the experience design can include what that measures. A quick example to make that concrete from the auto industry, which is one of many that buys into measuring "key purchasing indicators" (KPIs). They understand that people aren't going to "click here to buy a car" and they understand that not all traffic to a website are people currently considering buying a car. But, they also know that people who do buy are more likely to report using the website to find a dealer, or to request a quote, or to play with a car configurer, etc. So they already tend to watch what percentage of the traffic generated from any marketing activity produces KPI -- that's the traffic they are really interested in. High volume but low KPI? Not as valuable, from their point of view. Would it be easier to sell an ARG to that kind of company if you emphasized the tendency of engagement to produce qualitatively higher KPI than raw clicks off of a non-engaging banner? What if you could make the argument that it would improve the KPI of all the rest of the media spend by improving its engagement? So it will take know-how from the community, just not time or skill. I think it starts by asking clients, "How do you a prove your marketing campaign is successful to your boss or shareholders?" If you understand that, you've gained a powerful design weapon towards fixing what Mike was describing as "the thought behind the marketing or communication." From wendeth at wendydespain.com Thu Jul 9 16:02:28 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:02:28 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] tools for planning ARGs In-Reply-To: References: <50c963550907050645g20a27180h9eb26dd7476fc8f1@mail.gmail.com><282504.3406.qm@web39501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907061553i250692d7x105bacda6f427c65@mail.gmail.com><25de1e4f0907062316ka409b86x8d9120b45b295267@mail.gmail.com><429114.53201.qm@web39508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><50c963550907070626vf3ba509q14ed1ad49a63f9be@mail.gmail.com><03639DD9B0614EEE8964D537508E1946@Tricorder><8C464687123DB949AB362B7E81CB67E5406FE0E334@ABNEAWMBP001.gabril.com.br> <959F2BAA-E038-4B2F-B044-E5C4755FCE9B@campfirenyc.com> Message-ID: <011fc97d9b73a91feb269703374cb2eb.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> I think we've had a few discussions on this mailing list about how people go about organizing and planning out ARGs. Someone even mentioned researching mind-mapping software. This one crossed my desk today and I thought I would share: http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/ And this is a demonstration .mov of how to use it: http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/video/Planning.mov Everyone else may know about it already, but it was new to me, and I thought this group might be interested. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From andrhia at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:01:18 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:01:18 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Committee Message-ID: <5c799fd60907101101i3e9afffdi7593ac40040ec127@mail.gmail.com> After mulling it over, I've gone and made a new private Google group for the ARGology committee. It's called, obviously enough, 'ARGology' and you can find it here: http://groups.google.com/group/argology I've made it a restricted group because I don't think we want just any old person from the internet wandering in, but of course you're all welcome to join up. In fact, I'd LOVE for you to do so. If you join the group, you're expressing an interest in keeping ARGology growing and useful. What that involves specifically remains to be seen, once we have a group of people ready to get to work. That link again is: http://groups.google.com/group/argology Please do sign up. I need your help! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:09:35 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:09:35 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IRC Chats Message-ID: <5c799fd60907101109u799ed026ud6f20e7114f35529@mail.gmail.com> I've just gone back and looked at our whenisgood poll, and very few people answered. However, from the small sample size we have, it looks like 4pm on Mondays is good for everybody. If this is inconvenient for you, well, you should have answered the poll. ;) I am therefore declaring a weekly standing SIG chat on Mondays at 4pm Eastern time. That's 1pm Pacific time and 9pm GMT, unless my math is bad, which it usually is. Instructions on how to get to IRC are in our wiki: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats That said, the IRC chat room has been pretty active lately, even without anything scheduled. If you're interested in talking shop with other SIG members, feel free to stop by any time you're free. Thanks! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:02:53 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:02:53 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? Message-ID: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you expected it to? If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in myself. Have a great week, everyone! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From dflor71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 10:49:42 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:49:42 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580907130749s10aa55edidddc48c7ed65be6d@mail.gmail.com> Cloverfield. Yeah, I know how that sounds... and I know it's labeling as an "ARG" is up for debate... but still. That introduced me to UF, and from there my involvement grew to what it is now. I'd been a software developer and game designer before, but when doing video game design I was always limited by my lack of creative ability: I've coded several game engines from scratch (3D renderers, isometric engines, tile engines, even an occasional "side scroller"), but it would take me hours to draw even the most simplest of graphical elements. Then I saw ARGs, where the graphics requirements weren't as demanding - my first game, Looking Glass Labs, wasn't particularly graphic intensive, and even so it was limited to static images (still took me a long time, but still) and very primitive 3D work (kept dropping the same rabbit stock model everywhere) - and thought "hey, I can actually DO this!" On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you > interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms > independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what > you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you > expected it to? > > If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > > Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in > myself. Have a great week, everyone! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From vladiweb at googlemail.com Mon Jul 13 10:34:43 2009 From: vladiweb at googlemail.com (Vlad Alex) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:34:43 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? (Vladimir Alexeev) Message-ID: For me is ARG the new fascinating possibility in the field of culture/art. This new transmedial phenomenon opens new possibilities for art due of its interactivity. If in traditional media the communicative act is usually just a one-way-message relationship [author=>recipient], ARG allows to involve every feedback into the work itself (plot, design etc.). This possibility combined with the power of our imagination makes ARG to the new entertainment king (with one unique difference to traditional entertainment - it is not replayable like books, movies or games). This unique one-time application makes ARG for me very enjoyable and interesting. (Perhaps the only re-play possibility could be reading of ARG discussion archives) And just one another thing (among of many other points why I love ARG) is: ARG is higly inspirational. If you played many ARGs you want to make your own. So it is very productive to the new culture development, without any hierarchy like in traditional culture (where is - alas! - permanent war of quality vs. status [which surely are not always contradictory, but often contraproductive]). So if you start your own ARG, it doesn't matter, whether you have a name or not - if you can captivate people, only this fact matters. I hope, I could express my thoughts about ARG in a coherent way :-) Best regards to everybody Vlad Alex (aka kosmopol [aka Merzmensch]) http://merzmensch.t83.net On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:00 PM, wrote: > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? (Andrea Phillips) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:02:53 -0400 > From: Andrea Phillips > Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ?<5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you > interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms > independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what > you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you > expected it to? > > If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > > Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in > myself. Have a great week, everyone! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > End of ARG_Discuss Digest, Vol 48, Issue 11 > ******************************************* > From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 11:32:45 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:32:45 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Informal IRC chat tonight 4PM Eastern Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907130832i34489e61g842adce3886eeb3e@mail.gmail.com> Good day everyone, Just a few lines to remind you that we're having one of our "come as you are" IRC chats today. If you're not one of the usual suspects lurking in the #arg_sig channel, why not drop by and say hi ? Chat will start at 4PM Eastern time : for coordination purposes, check http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5 If you don't know how to get on IRC, we've got you covered : just go to http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats and follow the instructions for your connection method of choice ! Hope to see you there ! From dbwall at mac.com Tue Jul 14 16:43:33 2009 From: dbwall at mac.com (D B Wall) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:43:33 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm trying to write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but they're... case studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and to the point. Any suggestions? From mikeyj.cox at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 17:59:47 2009 From: mikeyj.cox at gmail.com (Mike Cox) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:59:47 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> There's a post mortem available for Operation: Sleeper Cell here: http://www.law37.com/postmortem.html I don't know whether it's quite what you want, but we made it available in the hope that it would be useful for someone. cheers Mike Cox blog: www.palecomic.com skype: mikeyjcox twitter: mikeyj On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm trying to > write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but they're... case > studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and to the > point. Any suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From kim.plowright at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 19:08:28 2009 From: kim.plowright at gmail.com (Kim Plowright) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:08:28 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have a format document for 'after action reviews' I pulled together ages ago, if that would help? Good for debriefing teams who work on stuff, I'd need to write up a bit on how to run the meeting it was designed to document tho... Shout if it would be useful. 2009/7/14 Mike Cox > There's a post mortem available for Operation: Sleeper Cell here: > http://www.law37.com/postmortem.html I don't know whether it's quite what > you want, but we made it available in the hope that it would be useful for > someone. > > cheers > > Mike Cox > > > blog: www.palecomic.com > skype: mikeyjcox > twitter: mikeyj > > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: > > > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm trying to > > write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but they're... > case > > studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and to the > > point. Any suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From wendeth at wendydespain.com Tue Jul 14 19:13:51 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:13:51 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <672234aa57f0b58bc9f658a44a5f3ceb.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> I'd sure like to see it, Kim. :-) I'm really a fan of coming up with some best practices for running ARG teams. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com On Tue, July 14, 2009 4:08 pm, Kim Plowright wrote: > I have a format document for 'after action reviews' I pulled together > ages > ago, if that would help? Good for debriefing teams who work on stuff, > I'd > need to write up a bit on how to run the meeting it was designed to > document > tho... > > Shout if it would be useful. > > 2009/7/14 Mike Cox > >> There's a post mortem available for Operation: Sleeper Cell here: >> http://www.law37.com/postmortem.html I don't know whether it's quite >> what >> you want, but we made it available in the hope that it would be >> useful for >> someone. >> >> cheers >> >> Mike Cox >> >> >> blog: www.palecomic.com >> skype: mikeyjcox >> twitter: mikeyj >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: >> >> > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm >> trying to >> > write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but >> they're... >> case >> > studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and >> to the >> > point. Any suggestions? >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From dflor71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 19:37:41 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:37:41 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580907141637w4e0af444n9d1b564f253afd7@mail.gmail.com> Here's mine... Looking Glass Laboratories: http://www.lglabs.net/ On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm trying to write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but they're... case studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and to the point. Any suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From andrhia at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 08:15:31 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:15:31 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Party in Shanghai Message-ID: <5c799fd60907150515g568f31f2udef45256958137b4@mail.gmail.com> On the off chance that any of you plan to be in Shanghai on Friday July 24... take a look at this invitation from the IGDA Shanghai chapter: *** Fellow IGDA chapter admins, It is with great pleasure that I extend the invitation of our upcoming IGDA party during ChinaJoy to everyone. Please visit www.igda.cn/enroll for event information and RSVP sign up. I would like to further extend the invitation to all members within your chapter that is visiting Shanghai during that time. The event is free for guests that RSVP so please help spread the word. Thank you! Gary IGDA Shanghai -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From kim.plowright at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 10:41:46 2009 From: kim.plowright at gmail.com (Kim Plowright) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:41:46 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: <672234aa57f0b58bc9f658a44a5f3ceb.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> <672234aa57f0b58bc9f658a44a5f3ceb.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Rogerwilco. It's not arg specific, but useful nonetheless - it was adopted on difficult projects in my old dept at the BBC, and worked really well. Will try and find a few moments in next week to add the glossary and upload it somewhere useful. 2009/7/15 Wendy Despain > I'd sure like to see it, Kim. :-) > > I'm really a fan of coming up with some best practices for running ARG > teams. > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > > On Tue, July 14, 2009 4:08 pm, Kim Plowright wrote: > > I have a format document for 'after action reviews' I pulled together > > ages > > ago, if that would help? Good for debriefing teams who work on stuff, > > I'd > > need to write up a bit on how to run the meeting it was designed to > > document > > tho... > > > > Shout if it would be useful. > > > > 2009/7/14 Mike Cox > > > >> There's a post mortem available for Operation: Sleeper Cell here: > >> http://www.law37.com/postmortem.html I don't know whether it's quite > >> what > >> you want, but we made it available in the hope that it would be > >> useful for > >> someone. > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> Mike Cox > >> > >> > >> blog: www.palecomic.com > >> skype: mikeyjcox > >> twitter: mikeyj > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: > >> > >> > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm > >> trying to > >> > write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but > >> they're... > >> case > >> > studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and > >> to the > >> > point. Any suggestions? > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Thu Jul 16 16:05:08 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:05:08 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, The Blair Witch Project opened in the US on 23 (I think) screens 10 years ago today, and since then I have been focusing on distributed, interactive narratives. At some point, someone pointed at a project I was doing (with Brian Clark) and said it was an ARG, and that's when I started following the ARG scene. While Blair Witch was the most sophisticated attempt at hacking reality I had done at that time, it wasn't the first. Many years before, probably 1992, a friend and I were exposed to Usenet and email through our universities. We started playing characters in the Usenet group devoted to Beverly Hills 90210. The board seemed to be made up of college freshmen gossiping about the characters and situations each episode, so we pretended to be pretentious philosophy grad students who were dissecting the meaning behind the show. Basically, we were speaking intellectual gibberish to each other "Brandon's philosophical disenfranchisement reflects an inability to deal with his religious la de da and so on." "I disagree with your hypothesis. Clearly, Brandon has exhibited la de da and so on" We would post these endlessly verbose responses back and forth over a few months and watch as people either struggled to understand what we were talking about, got the joke and joined in with their own gibberish, or told us to relax, it's just a TV show. Oh how I enjoyed it. -Mike On 7/13/09 9:02 AM, "Andrea Phillips" wrote: This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you expected it to? If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in myself. Have a great week, everyone! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss --- Mike Monello Partner, Campfire 62 White Street, 3E New York, NY 10013 212-612-9600 http://www.campfirenyc.com From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 16:56:39 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:56:39 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907161356r380da076g3c3e9e2abf64dff@mail.gmail.com> ~takes 2 cents out of his pocket and chimes in~ Back in 2005 or maybe 2006 is when I had my first active contact with ARGs with Perplex City. The reasons why it clicked, and why I stayed on the boat hopping from one game to another are as far as I can tell, the following : The intellectual aspect : Perplex City and puzzle-powered ARGs in general arrived at a time in my life when I was looking for a new hobby to pounce on. Hours spent trying to figure out what someone had hidden under several layers of meaning, code, or puzzles was something that came as refreshing, stimulating and cheap activity ! Not to mention the occasion to research more about this or that bit of culture that had served as a basis for the creation of this or that puzzle. The social aspect : The opportunity to question what you know, to accept the fact that others (younger or older) will know better than you while drawing theories on a a riddle, uzzle or story point is something I had been - and still am - in dire need of. Not to mention the fact that one can interact with a lot of very intersting people from several cultures and backgrounds and, if they live not too far from you, make some possibly very good friends. The professional aspect : Playing ARGs as well as moving on to writing about them (and at one point, having the opportunity to work with others to develop one) allowed me to grasp the complexity and challenges - and rewards ! - of the process as well as learn some of the must-have skills necessary for the field : tight writing, tight organizing and close collaborative works (and the use of the tools that go with it) are some of the things I picked up and was able to reinvest in my everyday, bill-paying job as a librarian. Well, that was a lot for just 2 cents ! Very good subject for the week, and I'm loving reading you guys' stories and experiences ! From bclark at gmdstudios.com Thu Jul 16 17:01:40 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:01:40 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907130602s59a4e84fqb5d0d6b1f3ebba1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F6A29CD8851411690BCB4121A9A3E8F@Tricorder> Beverly Hills 90210 and Usenet? That was a ramble there, Old Man Monello. Happy 10th anniversary of Blair Witch to you though, Mike. I've known Mike for so long our stories are deeply connected: let me expand on one of his points, and then dive off in a different direction (the "what were you trying to accomplish" front.) Mike wrote: "At some point, someone pointed at a project I was doing (with Brian Clark) and said it was an ARG, and that's when I started following the ARG scene." The only reason the ARG community paid attention to us then, Mike, was because there were damn puzzles in the Urns one. That was one of the few textures we'd never bothered to play explicitly with before ... and that time, it was something that had already been decided by the agency! The first phone calls as Mike and I tried to unravel that we were apparently "puppetmasters" were pretty fun ones. We kept going, "okay, I get it, that's what we would call blah". So if you want to take a strict view of it, "Art of the Heist" was the first ARG we did ... the first time we went, "okay, let's synthesize the way we normally do this to embrace the ARG expectation" which I think did a better job of putting the puzzles into a real narrative context. So back in those dark ages that Old Man Monello was talking about, one of the other GMD Studios principals and I were (among other things) game developers of the Diku II MUD platform ... essentially, the text games that lead to MMRPGs. So I think my expectations as a producer were always about "shared moments in time". The Web is more like performance to me than it is like media ... it exists in order to be inhabited by people. So it only made sense to use the web as a "place that people did something together" as the whole point of what the Internet was. Some of that was fiction (and looks like proto-ARG), some of that was non-fiction (and looked like real-time documentary) and some of it crossed into B2B (and looked like web publications serving strange niches). See many of you tomorrow. -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Michael Monello Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:05 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? Well, The Blair Witch Project opened in the US on 23 (I think) screens 10 years ago today, and since then I have been focusing on distributed, interactive narratives. At some point, someone pointed at a project I was doing (with Brian Clark) and said it was an ARG, and that's when I started following the ARG scene. While Blair Witch was the most sophisticated attempt at hacking reality I had done at that time, it wasn't the first. Many years before, probably 1992, a friend and I were exposed to Usenet and email through our universities. We started playing characters in the Usenet group devoted to Beverly Hills 90210. The board seemed to be made up of college freshmen gossiping about the characters and situations each episode, so we pretended to be pretentious philosophy grad students who were dissecting the meaning behind the show. Basically, we were speaking intellectual gibberish to each other "Brandon's philosophical disenfranchisement reflects an inability to deal with his religious la de da and so on." "I disagree with your hypothesis. Clearly, Brandon has exhibited la de da and so on" We would post these endlessly verbose responses back and forth over a few months and watch as people either struggled to understand what we were talking about, got the joke and joined in with their own gibberish, or told us to relax, it's just a TV show. Oh how I enjoyed it. -Mike On 7/13/09 9:02 AM, "Andrea Phillips" wrote: This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you expected it to? If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ide as Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in myself. Have a great week, everyone! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss --- Mike Monello Partner, Campfire 62 White Street, 3E New York, NY 10013 212-612-9600 http://www.campfirenyc.com _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From btradish at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 19:54:51 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? Message-ID: <28827772.1247788492015.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Note to self: Hire Mike and Brian to provide confusing philosophical babble for an ARG... I'm here because in 2004 I found something on the web called "This is Not Pron". (Still available at http://notpron.com , assuming it's the same one; I don't remember well enough to verify it.) Anyway, I think nowadays we'd call it a puzzle trail. Also around that time I was learning PHP to enable a new hobby?creating web-based games in the vein of Kingdom of Loathing and such experiences. I thought to myself?"I could do this". So I worked up this little teaser image and posted it somewhere... ...and then a friend of mine said "Say, is this anything like 'I Love Bees'?". ...and then I found Unfiction, prompting a cry of "Uh-oh, what have I gotten myself INTO?". I come at the topic mostly from the perspective of games. ARGs are kind of like MMORPGs, in a sense. (For example, both have acronyms that seem ultimately meaningless but that we're probably stuck with!) Asheron's Call has been releasing monthly events and updates for years. Sometimes they even incorporate player input, but it's usually just one player being recorded as doing something that didn't really impact the story. "Urist Swordwielder was the one to finally activate the switch in the Dark Castle after 100 players spent an hour searching for it", that sort of thing. Here's another example; in December of last year, Kingdom of Loathing had an event where players fought "the Crimbomination", a Godzilla-sized monster that required thousands of attacks from players before it was defeated. Fighting it occasionally yielded message along these lines: "It picks you up in one betaloned tentacle and throws you at , your fellow adventurer. It probably hurt him as much as it hurt you. Well, we can hope." The point was that was some randomly chosen other player who had also been fighting the monster. ...And players thought this was awesome and innovative! They really enjoyed this new kind of interaction with other players in the KoL world. That reaction actually bewildered me, because really, one of the true strengths of online games is that you can *so easily* get players interacting with each other. I just think there's a lot of untapped potential for cool experiences in this area. So, that's where I'm coming from. Online games, web-based experiences, a bit of roleplaying, I even did some collaborative writing some years back that probably influences me in ways I don't even realize. (And I even learned LPC, but that's a different branch of things than Diku, of course!) So, how could I NOT get into ARGs? -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com -----Original Message----- >From: Andrea Phillips >Sent: Jul 13, 2009 9:02 AM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? > >This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you >interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms >independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what >you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you >expected it to? > >If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add it in here: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > >Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in >myself. Have a great week, everyone! > >-- >Andrea Phillips >http://www.aaphillips.com >AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >Words * Culture * Interaction >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From varineq at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 21:01:11 2009 From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:01:11 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 13: Why are you here? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <71121BFB-86C2-402B-9AA2-F55C3B7D79E1@gmail.com> > At some point, someone pointed at a project I was doing (with Brian > Clark) and said it was an ARG, and that's when I started following > the ARG scene. I think that might have been Catherwood (from uF) and I. :) I remember directing players from the Urns forums to uF/ARGN. I've always been a sucker for a puzzle contest with a prize. I so almost had that thing solved ;) Michelle Senderhauf > > On 7/13/09 9:02 AM, "Andrea Phillips" wrote: > > This week's topic: What drew you into ARGs, and what keeps you > interested in them? For those of you who arrived at the same forms > independently, can you chime in with your thought processes on what > you were trying to do, and tell us whether it worked out the way you > expected it to? > > If you have a suggestion for a Topic of the Week, feel free to add > it in here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > > Or if you're a little shy, email me about it and I'll put it in > myself. Have a great week, everyone! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > --- > Mike Monello > Partner, Campfire > 62 White Street, 3E > New York, NY 10013 > 212-612-9600 > http://www.campfirenyc.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 08:00:57 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:00:57 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IGDA ARG SIG chat on IRC - Monday July the 20th, 2009 Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907200500ub6c3c31n2eb679be3535b545@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone ! With ARG-Fest-O-Con now just 24 hours behind us, hopefully enough of you have made it back home safely and ithout too much transportation drama. If you're done catching up with rest and, who knows, jet lag, how about dropping in the #arg_sig channel to share your convention stories during our weekly informal, come-as-you-are chat sessions ? Chat will start as usual at 4PM Eastern time : for coordination purposes, check http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5 If you don't know how to get on IRC, we've got you covered : just go to http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats/IRC_Instructionsand follow the step for your connection method of choice ! I won't see you there this week nor the next as I'll be on the road for an America-style road trip, but I have no doubt the usual suspects/lurkers wil greet you warmly. Have fun ! From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 11:10:38 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:10:38 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilities to the Public Message-ID: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know anything about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble into a piece of your game and think it's real. One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what 'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your responsibilities to the public at large? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bclark at gmdstudios.com Mon Jul 20 15:46:10 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:46:10 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilitiesto the Public In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2330572DF8B0402981EF99EB1E5959EF@Tricorder> >What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. Talk to us about why *that* was the ethical line for you. If it had been a biotech investor that mistakenly thought it was real, would it have felt like an ethical issue to you? What if it had been a job applicant? What about an academic researcher? What about a direct marketer hoping to sell office supplies to the fictional company? In general, I find the question of "ethical guidelines" dubious, at least when it comes to the deception example: there will always be people who don't take the time to determine if what they read is real or not. I worry that those kind of people think press releases and The Weekly World News and Peter Pan are real as well. Safety (like your "call the police" example) -- even of those not in on the fiction -- is a totally different kettle of worms and should be the subject of design considerations. From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 16:07:54 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:07:54 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilitiesto the Public In-Reply-To: <2330572DF8B0402981EF99EB1E5959EF@Tricorder> References: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> <2330572DF8B0402981EF99EB1E5959EF@Tricorder> Message-ID: I'm reminded of this stunt, to highlight the ongoing plight of the victims of the Bhopal disaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men#Dow_Chemical It's up to you whether or not you find The Yes Men's line convincing that what they did was nothing compared to what Dow Chemical did. However... I think it points up that the *purpose* of the ARG is probably relevant to the question. People might feel a lot better being duped that, eg, a company exists which is trialling an interesting cancer drug if the ARG is raising money for Cancer Research than they'd feel if that same ARG were advertising a new brand of chocolate bar ;-). - Naomi On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Brian Clark wrote: > >What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and > >thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > > Talk to us about why *that* was the ethical line for you. If it had been a > biotech investor that mistakenly thought it was real, would it have felt > like an ethical issue to you? What if it had been a job applicant? What > about an academic researcher? What about a direct marketer hoping to sell > office supplies to the fictional company? > > In general, I find the question of "ethical guidelines" dubious, at least > when it comes to the deception example: there will always be people who > don't take the time to determine if what they read is real or not. I worry > that those kind of people think press releases and The Weekly World News > and > Peter Pan are real as well. > > Safety (like your "call the police" example) -- even of those not in on the > fiction -- is a totally different kettle of worms and should be the subject > of design considerations. > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From kim.plowright at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 16:31:37 2009 From: kim.plowright at gmail.com (Kim Plowright) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:31:37 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilitiesto the Public In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> <2330572DF8B0402981EF99EB1E5959EF@Tricorder> Message-ID: (Routes is possibly an unusual example in that it had to comply with UK Ofcom Guidelines, and the specific guidelines around viewer trust in the UK http://www.independentproducerhandbook.co.uk/370/7a-channel4-viewer-trust-guidelines/7a-channel-4-viewer-trust-guidelines.html) 2009/7/20 Naomi Alderman > I'm reminded of this stunt, to highlight the ongoing plight of the victims > of the Bhopal disaster: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men#Dow_Chemical > > It's up to you whether or not you find The Yes Men's line convincing that > what they did was nothing compared to what Dow Chemical did. However... I > think it points up that the *purpose* of the ARG is probably relevant to > the > question. People might feel a lot better being duped that, eg, a company > exists which is trialling an interesting cancer drug if the ARG is raising > money for Cancer Research than they'd feel if that same ARG were > advertising > a new brand of chocolate bar ;-). > > - Naomi > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Brian Clark > wrote: > > > >What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and > > >thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > > > > Talk to us about why *that* was the ethical line for you. If it had been > a > > biotech investor that mistakenly thought it was real, would it have felt > > like an ethical issue to you? What if it had been a job applicant? What > > about an academic researcher? What about a direct marketer hoping to sell > > office supplies to the fictional company? > > > > In general, I find the question of "ethical guidelines" dubious, at least > > when it comes to the deception example: there will always be people who > > don't take the time to determine if what they read is real or not. I > worry > > that those kind of people think press releases and The Weekly World News > > and > > Peter Pan are real as well. > > > > Safety (like your "call the police" example) -- even of those not in on > the > > fiction -- is a totally different kettle of worms and should be the > subject > > of design considerations. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From annika at sics.se Tue Jul 21 02:39:54 2009 From: annika at sics.se (Annika Waern) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:39:54 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907200810v907c937j9acc1089737a2cef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8F73E7ED-C181-461D-9224-6D965E2B2370@sics.se> This is an interesting topic with no easy answers (and one that Montola, Stenros and I discuss quite a lot in our book "pervasive games: Theory and design"). ARGs tend to stage some kind of fictionalised reality, and since it is available in the 'real world' (even if this is the web) not everyone that stumbles upon game content will know it's a game. We call such games 'socially expanded' and they tend to raise ethical questions both concerning players and bystanders. Personally, I think that in socially expanded games you should make an effort to design the bystander experience, and not only the experience for the player who is already in the know. In that process, you'll want to both offer the bystander an interpretation of what they see ("this is a fake website", for example) and a way to relate to it (such as "I can enter into the game or just ignore it"). Andrea seems to have done precisely this - she considered the accidental website visitor's experience and then went through some effort to make sure that sucha a visitor would understand the fictional nature of the site. She might have designed every site to be a rabbit hole invitation to the game as well, turning the occasional visitor into a prospective player. By this, I don't mean that you MUST avoid misleading the occasional non-player that stumbles upon your game. It can sometimes be fun to be fooled, there might be a political / artistic reason to fool somebody, or you might even consider it an 'acceptable risk' given that there is always somebody who is prone to believe in just about anything. One of the reasons why this was an issue for routs 'Routes' was probably that the game dealt with a serious subject which is high on the current agenda. This makes it more likely both that people will be mislead, and that people will care about being 'fooled'. But it is also often the reason why you want to create reality fiction in the first place - you want to discuss something important rather than just entertain. (Incidentally, a pop-up warning is probably not the ideal way to advertise the fictional nature of a website. 'Sanningen om Marika' used this, and it didn't really work out. For the dedicated players, the popups were irritating as they kept reminding them of the fictional nature of the production. At the same time, many people don't read pop-ups. It seems like some people even participated in the game activities without realising that they were participating in a game...) Annika Waern Mobile Life at Stockholm University pervasive-games.wordpress.com 20 jul 2009 kl. 17.10 skrev Andrea Phillips: > This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was > something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this > weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. > > We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the > list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're > putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- > even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know anything > about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble > into a piece of your game and think it's real. > > One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for > pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what > 'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk > about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? > What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and > thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > > There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably > innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call > the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. > > So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your > responsibilities to the public at large? > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From dbwall at mac.com Tue Jul 21 17:45:13 2009 From: dbwall at mac.com (D B Wall) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:45:13 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: Designer Responsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons associated with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call it efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, I wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on public facing materials could be established with similar effect. Twitter, Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" wrote: >This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was >something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this >weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. > >We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the >list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're >putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- >even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know anything >about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble >into a piece of your game and think it's real. > >One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for >pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what >'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk >about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? >What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > >There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably >innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call >the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. > >So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your >responsibilities to the public at large? > >-- >Andrea Phillips >http://www.aaphillips.com >AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >Words * Culture * Interaction >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > From andrhia at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 19:38:09 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:38:09 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] IGDA Member Satisfaction Survey Message-ID: <5c799fd60907211638n3ef72d03n26323ceec8dcef0c@mail.gmail.com> It's gone up here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=%2bWbNUx%2bum0%2fqszww2TFkFA%3d%3d#q1 Please take the time to respond, particularly if you are... you know... an IGDA member. Thanks. :) -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bclark at gmdstudios.com Wed Jul 22 08:04:46 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:04:46 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations experts and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain More than 40% Fiction"? -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of D B Wall Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons associated with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call it efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, I wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on public facing materials could be established with similar effect. Twitter, Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" wrote: >This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was >something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this >weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. > >We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the >list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're >putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- >even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know anything >about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble >into a piece of your game and think it's real. > >One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for >pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what >'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk >about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? >What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > >There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably >innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call >the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. > >So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your >responsibilities to the public at large? > >-- >Andrea Phillips >http://www.aaphillips.com >AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >Words * Culture * Interaction >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From wendeth at wendydespain.com Thu Jul 23 01:37:26 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:37:26 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> Message-ID: I think this idea of an icon - universal across many (ideally, all) ARG-like things on the web is brilliant. I'd use it on my projects. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com On Wed, July 22, 2009 5:04 am, Brian Clark wrote: > I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations > experts > and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain > More > than 40% Fiction"? > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of D B Wall > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: > DesignerResponsibilities to the Public > > I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons > associated > with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call > it > efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, > I > wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on > public facing materials could be established with similar effect. > Twitter, > Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, > well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? > > > On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" > > wrote: >>This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was >>something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this >>weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. >> >>We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the >>list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're >>putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- >>even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know >> anything >>about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble >>into a piece of your game and think it's real. >> >>One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for >>pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what >>'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk >>about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? >>What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >>thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. >> >>There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably >>innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call >>the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. >> >>So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your >>responsibilities to the public at large? >> >>-- >>Andrea Phillips >>http://www.aaphillips.com >>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>Words * Culture * Interaction >>_______________________________________________ >>ARG_Discuss mailing list >>ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 11:23:34 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:23:34 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907230823s2e83fc06tdceb43059c85a48c@mail.gmail.com> This makes me think of the Trust-E icon for the web: verifying things that are true rather than flagging things that are fictional. You'd think that verification systems like that would be a big deal, but in practice hardly anybody notices the thing. Just like most people probably don't notice the little lock icon in their web browser that indicates their SSL connection is working properly. If people don't immediately know what something means, they kind of tune it out... Going back to the original question: I really don't know what I think our responsibilities are in presenting our fictional worlds. Some general rules of thumb seem obvious to me... "Don't put a street address on a website unless it's a place you are prepared for players to turn up," springs to mind. But that's the intersection of virtual and physical, and I think requires more careful management for many, many reasons. And the internet is a messy, disreputable place, so you could argue that the person who stumbles onto a fictional website and takes it as real is merely in the process of learning a Valuable Lesson About The Internet. ...probably in a kinder way than it would otherwise be delivered, too. But what I really want to do is sort of grope around for the edges of what seems OK to most people and what doesn't. It may be there's no consensus to find, but the mere act of picking up the subject and seeing what it does when we poke at it... that's an important process. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Wendy Despain wrote: > I think this idea of an icon - universal across many (ideally, all) > ARG-like things on the web is brilliant. I'd use it on my projects. > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > > On Wed, July 22, 2009 5:04 am, Brian Clark wrote: >> I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations >> experts >> and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain >> More >> than 40% Fiction"? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On >> Behalf Of D B Wall >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: >> DesignerResponsibilities to the Public >> >> I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons >> associated >> with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call >> it >> efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, >> I >> wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on >> public facing materials could be established with similar effect. >> Twitter, >> Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, >> well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? >> >> >> On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" >> >> wrote: >>>This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was >>>something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this >>>weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. >>> >>>We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the >>>list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're >>>putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- >>>even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know >>> anything >>>about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble >>>into a piece of your game and think it's real. >>> >>>One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for >>>pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what >>>'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk >>>about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? >>>What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >>>thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. >>> >>>There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably >>>innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call >>>the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. >>> >>>So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your >>>responsibilities to the public at large? >>> >>>-- >>>Andrea Phillips >>>http://www.aaphillips.com >>>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>>Words * Culture * Interaction >>>_______________________________________________ >>>ARG_Discuss mailing list >>>ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 15:15:28 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:15:28 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns Message-ID: <5c799fd60907231215s52fbf901wa90b4f2efaf1cc11@mail.gmail.com> Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings this evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the bottom saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action going... -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 15:22:02 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:22:02 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907231215s52fbf901wa90b4f2efaf1cc11@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907231215s52fbf901wa90b4f2efaf1cc11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907231222s7847895bscbb1ca6a913c289d@mail.gmail.com> Looks like I've got my post, folks. But if you have something you'd like to see up on ARGology, my inbox is always open. Thanks :) On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings this > evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone > feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest > recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the bottom > saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the > SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action > going... > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From btradish at earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 19:39:21 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Professor Layton ARG created by fans Message-ID: <20858663.1248392361987.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Several fans of the Professor Layton video game created an ARG to promote the games. Yeah, they call it a "viral marketing campaign", but to me it really looks like an ARG. They wrestled with guilt over the fact that people thought it was an official Nintendo campaign, and they eventually pulled back the curtain. What I really liked about this story was how it was just improvised by a few guys that thought it would be fun. http://www.crispygamer.com/features/2009-07-23/tophatprofessor-layton-and-the-curious-twitter-accounts.aspx -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com From btradish at earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 19:23:06 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns Message-ID: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey, you know what I think would be good? The next time we have a Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post reposted should say so. Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the responses and edit them together into a post for ARGology. So, if you want to opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, say so. I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com -----Original Message----- >From: Andrea Phillips >Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns > >Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings this >evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the bottom >saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >going... > >-- >Andrea Phillips >http://www.aaphillips.com >AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >Words * Culture * Interaction >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 19:52:41 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:52:41 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907231652s6f39f76bq91c84a8c7cab7320@mail.gmail.com> I think that is a *really excellent* idea, and I thank you for suggesting it. Man, we're turning into some kind of well-oiled machine or something around here, aren't we?! On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:23 PM, John Evans wrote: > Hey, you know what I think would be good? ?The next time we have a > Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post reposted > should say so. ?Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the responses > and edit them together into a post for ARGology. ?So, if you want to > opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, say so. > > I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? > > -- > John Evans > Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Andrea Phillips >>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >>To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >>Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns >> >>Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings this >>evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >>feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >>recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the bottom >>saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >>SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >>going... >> >>-- >>Andrea Phillips >>http://www.aaphillips.com >>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>Words * Culture * Interaction >>_______________________________________________ >>ARG_Discuss mailing list >>ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From ralphloizzo at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 19:56:00 2009 From: ralphloizzo at gmail.com (Ralph Loizzo) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:56:00 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907231652s6f39f76bq91c84a8c7cab7320@mail.gmail.com> References: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <5c799fd60907231652s6f39f76bq91c84a8c7cab7320@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55855883-38DE-4C9B-A8DF-4833F61C0756@gmail.com> I'd like to think so On Jul 23, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > I think that is a *really excellent* idea, and I thank you for > suggesting it. Man, we're turning into some kind of well-oiled machine > or something around here, aren't we?! > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:23 PM, John Evans > wrote: >> Hey, you know what I think would be good? The next time we have a >> Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post reposted >> should say so. Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the >> responses >> and edit them together into a post for ARGology. So, if you want to >> opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, say >> so. >> >> I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? >> >> -- >> John Evans >> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Andrea Phillips >>> Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >>> Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns >>> >>> Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings >>> this >>> evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >>> feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >>> recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the >>> bottom >>> saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >>> SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >>> going... >>> >>> -- >>> Andrea Phillips >>> http://www.aaphillips.com >>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>> Words * Culture * Interaction >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From ralphloizzo at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 19:57:09 2009 From: ralphloizzo at gmail.com (Ralph Loizzo) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:57:09 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2026D6F0-D613-422F-B874-29C4D6635A55@gmail.com> I think people should opt-out rather than opt-in On Jul 23, 2009, at 6:23 PM, John Evans wrote: > Hey, you know what I think would be good? The next time we have a > Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post reposted > should say so. Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the > responses > and edit them together into a post for ARGology. So, if you want to > opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, say > so. > > I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? > > -- > John Evans > Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Andrea Phillips >> Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns >> >> Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings >> this >> evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >> feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >> recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the >> bottom >> saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >> SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >> going... >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:04:01 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:04:01 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <2026D6F0-D613-422F-B874-29C4D6635A55@gmail.com> References: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <2026D6F0-D613-422F-B874-29C4D6635A55@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907231704o24332915h79b14218be671938@mail.gmail.com> Emphatically no. While this list's archives are available online, they are somewhat hard to find and navigate (security through obfuscation!). Some of us wish we didn't even have those archives, frankly. The idea that anything you say on this list could be splashed on a website without your explicit permission later? Well, it would lead to a lack of candor and open discussion that would probably kill us dead. Opt-in is definitely the way to go. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Ralph Loizzo wrote: > I think people should opt-out rather than opt-in > > > > > On Jul 23, 2009, at 6:23 PM, John Evans wrote: > >> Hey, you know what I think would be good? ?The next time we have a >> Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post reposted >> should say so. ?Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the responses >> and edit them together into a post for ARGology. ?So, if you want to >> opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, say so. >> >> I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? >> >> -- >> John Evans >> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Andrea Phillips >>> Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >>> Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns >>> >>> Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings this >>> evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >>> feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >>> recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the bottom >>> saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >>> SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >>> going... >>> >>> -- >>> Andrea Phillips >>> http://www.aaphillips.com >>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>> Words * Culture * Interaction >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From ralphloizzo at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:12:43 2009 From: ralphloizzo at gmail.com (Ralph Loizzo) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:12:43 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907231704o24332915h79b14218be671938@mail.gmail.com> References: <3984080.1248391387157.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <2026D6F0-D613-422F-B874-29C4D6635A55@gmail.com> <5c799fd60907231704o24332915h79b14218be671938@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E8494E4-6158-41F3-A905-5AA4060D8678@gmail.com> Point taken On Jul 23, 2009, at 7:04 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Emphatically no. While this list's archives are available online, they > are somewhat hard to find and navigate (security through > obfuscation!). Some of us wish we didn't even have those archives, > frankly. The idea that anything you say on this list could be splashed > on a website without your explicit permission later? Well, it would > lead to a lack of candor and open discussion that would probably kill > us dead. > > Opt-in is definitely the way to go. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Ralph Loizzo > wrote: >> I think people should opt-out rather than opt-in >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 23, 2009, at 6:23 PM, John Evans >> wrote: >> >>> Hey, you know what I think would be good? The next time we have a >>> Topic of the Week, people who are willing to have their post >>> reposted >>> should say so. Then, at the end of the week, I can collect the >>> responses >>> and edit them together into a post for ARGology. So, if you want to >>> opt-in next week to having things you say reposted on ARGology, >>> say so. >>> >>> I think it's a good idea, but what about you all? >>> >>> -- >>> John Evans >>> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>> From: Andrea Phillips >>>> Sent: Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM >>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >>>> Subject: [arg_discuss] ARGology Call for Columns >>>> >>>> Looks like I'm going to be updating ARGology's freelance listings >>>> this >>>> evening. I'd love to have some new content to put up, too -- anyone >>>> feel like volunteering a quick column? Topic of the week, ARGfest >>>> recap, anything? If necessary I'll add a nice disclaimer at the >>>> bottom >>>> saying you don't represent the official opinion of the IGDA and the >>>> SIG. ;) And maybe we could get some fun point-counterpoint action >>>> going... >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andrea Phillips >>>> http://www.aaphillips.com >>>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>>> Words * Culture * Interaction >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 10:12:42 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:12:42 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education Message-ID: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> Today's topic: What kind of education or training would you recommend for somebody who wants to break into ARGs? Remember, if you have Topic of the Week suggestions, feel free to edit the wiki at: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas Or email me you suggestions and I'll put them in the queue. Thanks! :) -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bclark at gmdstudios.com Mon Jul 27 10:48:32 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:48:32 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> > What kind of education or training would you recommend for > somebody who wants to break into ARGs? Define "break in". B. From sjoerdwennekes at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 10:54:55 2009 From: sjoerdwennekes at hotmail.com (Sjoerd Wennekes) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:54:55 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: First thought is of course: a game study ;-) There are a lot of (art)schools and universities who educate in game development. Although I think that Universities are maybe a bit too theoretic on the subject. Last year I graduated from art school, where I studied 'Design for Virtual Theatre and Games' We had our fair share of ARG's there. On of the graduation project was an ARG about 'trash island', the big island of plastic waste that is forming in the Atlantic ocean. We also had classes in rule design (not only ARG's of course), Urban games, flasmobs and other ARG related subjects. Because ARG's have a different kind of rule-set than other games, most of the time they also include some kind of 'real life' performance, I really recommend this study. Beside games, theatre is also a big part of the curriculum. Maybe one downside, the study is given in The Netherlands. At the art school in Utrecht. For everybody who doesn't live in The Netherlands (or doesn't want to go there), find the equivalent in your own country. Greets Sjoerd > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:12:42 -0400 > From: andrhia at gmail.com > To: arg_discuss at igda.org > Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education > > Today's topic: > > What kind of education or training would you recommend for somebody > who wants to break into ARGs? > > Remember, if you have Topic of the Week suggestions, feel free to edit > the wiki at: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > > Or email me you suggestions and I'll put them in the queue. Thanks! :) > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From scpeters at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 11:01:32 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:01:32 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> <81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> Message-ID: <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> Also, what roles? Writer? Experience designer? Producer? Graphic artist? Programmer? Minion? *via iPhone* On Jul 27, 2009, at 7:48 AM, "Brian Clark" wrote: >> What kind of education or training would you recommend for >> somebody who wants to break into ARGs? > > Define "break in". > > B. > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bclark at gmdstudios.com Mon Jul 27 11:16:02 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:16:02 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com><81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Minion? Please tell me more about this minion role at No Mimes Media, Steve. Do I have to go back to school to qualify? From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 11:18:58 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:18:58 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> <81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907270818n265dea52tab12a41e93e811ac@mail.gmail.com> It's a Rorschach blot, guys. Tell me what you see... ;) On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Steve Peters wrote: > Also, what roles? Writer? Experience designer? Producer? Graphic artist? > Programmer? Minion? > > *via iPhone* > > On Jul 27, 2009, at 7:48 AM, "Brian Clark" wrote: > >>> What kind of education or training would you recommend for >>> somebody who wants to break into ARGs? >> >> Define "break in". >> >> B. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From libfli at aol.com Mon Jul 27 11:14:52 2009 From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:14:52 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com><81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBDCE420368AF2-178-1E3@WEBMAIL-DZ27.sysops.aol.com> theatre major - minion minor -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peters To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 8:01 am Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education Also, what roles? Writer? Experience designer? Producer? Graphic artist? Programmer? Minion?? ? *via iPhone*? ? On Jul 27, 2009, at 7:48 AM, "Brian Clark" wrote:? ? >> What kind of education or training would you recommend for? >> somebody who wants to break into ARGs?? >? > Define "break in".? >? > B.? >? > _______________________________________________? > ARG_Discuss mailing list? > ARG_Discuss at igda.org? > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss? _______________________________________________? ARG_Discuss mailing list? ARG_Discuss at igda.org? http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss? From scpeters at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 11:28:52 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:28:52 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com><81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <454E0D57-258A-42E2-8605-1E8BE5926F0B@gmail.com> Well, we don't currently offer this position at NMM. My previous employer, however.... Oh wait, that was more of a knave. *via iPhone* On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:16 AM, "Brian Clark" wrote: >> Minion? > > Please tell me more about this minion role at No Mimes Media, Steve. > Do I > have to go back to school to qualify? > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 11:50:15 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:50:15 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IGDA ARG SIG chat on IRC - Monday July the 27th, 2009 Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907270850i1a745a22p195e208e9786034e@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone ! A quick email sent courtesy of an Internet connection at the feet of Mt. Rushmore (nice monument you Yankees have here !) to remind you that today at 4PM Eastern Time one of our weekly IRC chats will take place ! Come share your week, come share your thoughts, come as you are to meet the resident IRC lurkers ! For coordination purposes, check http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5 If you don't know how to get on IRC, we've got you covered : just go to http://www.igda.org/wiki/ Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ IRC_Chats/IRC_Instructionsand follow the step for your connection method of choice ! As for me, time to get back on the road Southwards ! Until next time, T. From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 12:01:45 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:01:45 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907270818n265dea52tab12a41e93e811ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> <81A3BF34F85247FB8E0738E7CEA51EE6@Tricorder> <4D8908FD-E5FD-455D-A81A-A5B129EBDF1B@gmail.com> <5c799fd60907270818n265dea52tab12a41e93e811ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The best thing I ever did was to read, play and DM a lot of RPGs. I think they're the closest tabletop model to the ARG experience - creating a narrative, characters and a set of puzzles in advance, but leaving enough flexibility in the system to allow your players to have a real influence on events in ways which can't necessarily be predicted. There are a lot of role-specific skills, of course (writers need to practice writing, designers need to learn design), but I think the flexibility and ability to think on your feet you learn from RPGs will serve you well working on an ARG in any capacity. - Naomi On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > It's a Rorschach blot, guys. Tell me what you see... ;) > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Steve Peters wrote: > > Also, what roles? Writer? Experience designer? Producer? Graphic artist? > > Programmer? Minion? > > > > *via iPhone* > > > > On Jul 27, 2009, at 7:48 AM, "Brian Clark" > wrote: > > > >>> What kind of education or training would you recommend for > >>> somebody who wants to break into ARGs? > >> > >> Define "break in". > >> > >> B. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From jaybushman at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 12:14:13 2009 From: jaybushman at gmail.com (Jay Bushman) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:14:13 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A6DD255.5070103@gmail.com> I'd answer this the same way I tend to answer questions about the value of going to film school. Take whatever money you would spend on school and use it to make a games. Volunteer to work on other people's games. Find like-minded folks and work together to make things. Iterate, iterate, iterate. Fail a lot. Iterate some more. Andrea Phillips wrote: > Today's topic: > > What kind of education or training would you recommend for somebody > who wants to break into ARGs? > > Remember, if you have Topic of the Week suggestions, feel free to edit > the wiki at: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ToW_Ideas > > Or email me you suggestions and I'll put them in the queue. Thanks! :) > > From brooke at giantmice.com Mon Jul 27 13:13:23 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:13:23 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907270712n56497368v223c79c6ba482989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I could tell you that coming at it through gaming is the way to do it. Mike or Brian could probably tell you that coming at it through film is the way to do it. Krystyn could probably tell you that coming at it through theater is the way to do it. We could probably all make a fairly convincing arguments. And they might all be right but, yet, they wouldn't cut to the heart of it. The most important thing with most jobs in alternate reality gaming is passion. If you have that, you'll find the education and training through the choices you make. Now, they won't all be the "right" choices. But that's ok. Sometimes you learn the most from the things you shouldn't have done. On Jul 27, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Today's topic: > > What kind of education or training would you recommend for somebody > who wants to break into ARGs? From tassos_stevens at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 27 15:01:08 2009 From: tassos_stevens at yahoo.co.uk (Tassos Stevens) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education Message-ID: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. Make a street game. Make something, anything. Fail better. From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:28:23 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:28:23 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> See, this is more what I expected. ;) C'mon, aren't any of you tempted to write a nice meaty post we can promote up to ARGology laying out a curriculum for the liberal arts education for making ARGs and ARG-related experiences? ^_^ On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tassos Stevens wrote: > Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. > Make a street game. > Make something, anything. > Fail better. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From brooke at giantmice.com Mon Jul 27 15:42:59 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:42:59 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> References: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: For better or worse, those already exist. The thing is, I got a heck of a lot more out of my very much unfocused (or so I thought at the time) undergraduate wanderings than I did my actual focused work in grad school - which is kinda why I left school and went back to the actual making of things. It was insanely stupid to be paying thousands of dollars to not get actual experience when what is the most helpful in this field is actual experience. (though I can now use big words and sound smart if I want to - which is a fun skill to have) I mean we can throw down the seminal (and not so seminal) texts in game design, film, theater, production, computer science, sociology, art, history, etc etc. But that's a reading list. And it's theory - not an education or training. (though that's just my rather unacademic opinion) On Jul 27, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > See, this is more what I expected. ;) > > C'mon, aren't any of you tempted to write a nice meaty post we can > promote up to ARGology laying out a curriculum for the liberal arts > education for making ARGs and ARG-related experiences? ^_^ > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tassos > Stevens wrote: >> Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. >> Make a street game. >> Make something, anything. >> Fail better. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:53:22 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:53:22 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: References: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thinking more about making games, and playing games. I think it's rather like the advice you get as a writer. If you want to be a writer: read a lot and write a lot. The reading will influence the writing, of course, but the writing will also influence the reading, and that's where the feedback loop becomes golden. When you start writing, you will find that the way you read changes. For example, if you're working on a scene and having trouble getting your characters out of the room (a surprisingly common problem!) you'll suddenly start looking through the books you're reading, searching for ways other writers have solved this problem. You start to read not just for the story or language but looking at the structure, at the problem-solving, seeing how the pieces are bolted together. So I guess, make games and also play games. The making will change the way you play. Also, where possible re-play (I realise this is often difficult with ARGs). But if you can, take a game you loved and play it through again; you'll start to see how you were gently nudged into particular decisions, or notice where the logic didn't quite make sense but you were distracted by a particularly seductive piece of handwaving. Re-playing, re-watching, re-reading have been a particularly good school for me. I once had an almost zenlike experience of truly grokking narrative structure after I watched a great episode of Buffy several times in a row. - Naomi On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Brooke Thompson wrote: > For better or worse, those already exist. > > The thing is, I got a heck of a lot more out of my very much unfocused (or > so I thought at the time) undergraduate wanderings than I did my actual > focused work in grad school - which is kinda why I left school and went back > to the actual making of things. It was insanely stupid to be paying > thousands of dollars to not get actual experience when what is the most > helpful in this field is actual experience. (though I can now use big words > and sound smart if I want to - which is a fun skill to have) > > I mean we can throw down the seminal (and not so seminal) texts in game > design, film, theater, production, computer science, sociology, art, > history, etc etc. But that's a reading list. And it's theory - not an > education or training. > > (though that's just my rather unacademic opinion) > > > > > > > On Jul 27, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > See, this is more what I expected. ;) >> >> C'mon, aren't any of you tempted to write a nice meaty post we can >> promote up to ARGology laying out a curriculum for the liberal arts >> education for making ARGs and ARG-related experiences? ^_^ >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tassos >> Stevens wrote: >> >>> Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. >>> Make a street game. >>> Make something, anything. >>> Fail better. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From ralphloizzo at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 16:09:15 2009 From: ralphloizzo at gmail.com (Ralph Loizzo) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:09:15 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education In-Reply-To: References: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a445faf0907271309x47d64808i1e3889f7a39a0bdb@mail.gmail.com> My problem as a writer trying to participate in the creation side of ARGs stems from the same problem that people have when deciding whether or not to play a specific ARG. I wrote a blog article recently regarding the problem of trust with an ARG. People can ask for recommendations on books to read or movies to see, but with an ARG, that's difficult to do. Once an ARG is played, it's done. And it can't be re-experienced. So in that case, when someone like myself wants to join in a group designing an ARG, it's difficult to choose with whom to work. Companies producing big marketing ARGs aren't going to turn to someone like me for help with their design, so I end up joining grass roots campaigns, and hopefully those people end up producing some work, not just discussing back and forth a cool idea. So hopefully, after a few years of trials over the next few years, I'll have some credits under my belt so I can draw on talented people to assist in my creations. But it's tough! It's tough to maintain a healthy spirit and drive when you're a newbie to any area of others' expertise. It's exciting to be part of ARG creation as it's a relatively new genre, so formal training hasn't truly been "accepted" by the union of ARG developers. But it's also difficult since there's no guidelines to follow except ARGs from that can't be experienced again. So I've relied alot on forums where people discuss previous ARGs, and books by David Szulborski. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Naomi Alderman wrote: > Thinking more about making games, and playing games. I think it's rather > like the advice you get as a writer. If you want to be a writer: read a lot > and write a lot. The reading will influence the writing, of course, but the > writing will also influence the reading, and that's where the feedback loop > becomes golden. > > When you start writing, you will find that the way you read changes. For > example, if you're working on a scene and having trouble getting your > characters out of the room (a surprisingly common problem!) you'll suddenly > start looking through the books you're reading, searching for ways other > writers have solved this problem. You start to read not just for the story > or language but looking at the structure, at the problem-solving, seeing > how > the pieces are bolted together. > > So I guess, make games and also play games. The making will change the way > you play. Also, where possible re-play (I realise this is often difficult > with ARGs). But if you can, take a game you loved and play it through > again; > you'll start to see how you were gently nudged into particular decisions, > or > notice where the logic didn't quite make sense but you were distracted by a > particularly seductive piece of handwaving. > > Re-playing, re-watching, re-reading have been a particularly good school > for > me. I once had an almost zenlike experience of truly grokking narrative > structure after I watched a great episode of Buffy several times in a row. > > - Naomi > > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Brooke Thompson >wrote: > > > For better or worse, those already exist. > > > > The thing is, I got a heck of a lot more out of my very much unfocused > (or > > so I thought at the time) undergraduate wanderings than I did my actual > > focused work in grad school - which is kinda why I left school and went > back > > to the actual making of things. It was insanely stupid to be paying > > thousands of dollars to not get actual experience when what is the most > > helpful in this field is actual experience. (though I can now use big > words > > and sound smart if I want to - which is a fun skill to have) > > > > I mean we can throw down the seminal (and not so seminal) texts in game > > design, film, theater, production, computer science, sociology, art, > > history, etc etc. But that's a reading list. And it's theory - not an > > education or training. > > > > (though that's just my rather unacademic opinion) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 27, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > > > See, this is more what I expected. ;) > >> > >> C'mon, aren't any of you tempted to write a nice meaty post we can > >> promote up to ARGology laying out a curriculum for the liberal arts > >> education for making ARGs and ARG-related experiences? ^_^ > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tassos > >> Stevens wrote: > >> > >>> Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. > >>> Make a street game. > >>> Make something, anything. > >>> Fail better. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Andrea Phillips > >> http://www.aaphillips.com > >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >> Words * Culture * Interaction > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From Joshua at igda.org Mon Jul 27 16:06:11 2009 From: Joshua at igda.org (Joshua Caulfield) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:06:11 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education References: <60127.4312.qm@web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5c799fd60907271228p3cf6e76dk1156e25ba3426e69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C05F@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> Hey there folks, I've been watching this discussion. If you put something together, we can add it as an additional content line in our breaking in section of the IGDA website: http://www.igda.org/breakingin/ Cheers, Joshua ________________________________ From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Andrea Phillips Sent: Mon 7/27/2009 3:28 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 27: Education See, this is more what I expected. ;) C'mon, aren't any of you tempted to write a nice meaty post we can promote up to ARGology laying out a curriculum for the liberal arts education for making ARGs and ARG-related experiences? ^_^ On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tassos Stevens wrote: > Read Improvisation for Storytellers by Keith Johnstone. > Make a street game. > Make something, anything. > Fail better. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From marcus.helm at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 16:21:19 2009 From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:19 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907230823s2e83fc06tdceb43059c85a48c@mail.gmail.com> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> <5c799fd60907230823s2e83fc06tdceb43059c85a48c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0907271321v767712f2h3562168d3fc600f4@mail.gmail.com> Ive been lurking on this thread and ones like it for a while. I have to say, I agree completely with Brian on this one. I'm currently researching ethics of Pervasive and Alternate reality games experiences on participants and by standers for my masters research and im delivering a Paper on the subject at ISEA in Belfast next month. Is anyone going to be there? Anyway, without presenting the whole thing here i conclude the paper with something like: If we are to weight the ethics of presenting these works in public spaces, would that not require us to question all experiences and messages found in public places from media journalism, political and religious statements and perhaps most importantly, omnipresent advertising? Should these messages also be scrutinized for any potential or actual ontological confusion they inspire? Everyday reality is constructed and mediated, changing but constant. The artists behind these works can momentarily peel back the corners of our shared and assembled real, allowing us to question the motives of those who create it. These works invite audiences to critically engage with *all*reality, but neither the works nor artists themselves can topple the real. In fearing that they could, we misjudge both their agency and the aims. Hugh On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > This makes me think of the Trust-E icon for the web: verifying things > that are true rather than flagging things that are fictional. You'd > think that verification systems like that would be a big deal, but in > practice hardly anybody notices the thing. Just like most people > probably don't notice the little lock icon in their web browser that > indicates their SSL connection is working properly. If people don't > immediately know what something means, they kind of tune it out... > > Going back to the original question: I really don't know what I think > our responsibilities are in presenting our fictional worlds. Some > general rules of thumb seem obvious to me... "Don't put a street > address on a website unless it's a place you are prepared for players > to turn up," springs to mind. But that's the intersection of virtual > and physical, and I think requires more careful management for many, > many reasons. > > And the internet is a messy, disreputable place, so you could argue > that the person who stumbles onto a fictional website and takes it as > real is merely in the process of learning a Valuable Lesson About The > Internet. ...probably in a kinder way than it would otherwise be > delivered, too. > > But what I really want to do is sort of grope around for the edges of > what seems OK to most people and what doesn't. It may be there's no > consensus to find, but the mere act of picking up the subject and > seeing what it does when we poke at it... that's an important process. > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Wendy Despain > wrote: > > I think this idea of an icon - universal across many (ideally, all) > > ARG-like things on the web is brilliant. I'd use it on my projects. > > > > Wendy Despain > > quantumcontent.com > > > > > > On Wed, July 22, 2009 5:04 am, Brian Clark wrote: > >> I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations > >> experts > >> and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain > >> More > >> than 40% Fiction"? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > >> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On > >> Behalf Of D B Wall > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM > >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: > >> DesignerResponsibilities to the Public > >> > >> I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons > >> associated > >> with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call > >> it > >> efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, > >> I > >> wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on > >> public facing materials could be established with similar effect. > >> Twitter, > >> Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, > >> well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? > >> > >> > >> On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" > >> > >> wrote: > >>>This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was > >>>something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this > >>>weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. > >>> > >>>We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the > >>>list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're > >>>putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- > >>>even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know > >>> anything > >>>about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble > >>>into a piece of your game and think it's real. > >>> > >>>One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for > >>>pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what > >>>'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk > >>>about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? > >>>What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and > >>>thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > >>> > >>>There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably > >>>innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call > >>>the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. > >>> > >>>So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your > >>>responsibilities to the public at large? > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Andrea Phillips > >>>http://www.aaphillips.com > >>>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >>>Words * Culture * Interaction > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>>ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > > > Wendy Despain > > quantumcontent.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 20:01:34 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:01:34 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <4ca6fcda0907271321v767712f2h3562168d3fc600f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> <5c799fd60907230823s2e83fc06tdceb43059c85a48c@mail.gmail.com> <4ca6fcda0907271321v767712f2h3562168d3fc600f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907271701o4031b525kb43e99f7de69e522@mail.gmail.com> I won't be there, but I'd really love to read your paper. It sounds like something we'd be interested in linking from ARGology.org, assuming it's available online. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Hugh Davies wrote: > Ive been lurking on this thread and ones like it for a while. > I have to say, I agree completely with Brian on this one. > > I'm currently researching ethics of Pervasive and Alternate reality games > experiences on participants and by standers for my masters research and im > delivering a Paper on the subject at ISEA in Belfast next month. Is anyone > going to be there? > > Anyway, without presenting the whole thing here i conclude the paper with > something like: > > If we are to weight the ethics of presenting these works in public spaces, > would that not require us to question all experiences and messages found in > public places from media journalism, political and religious statements and > perhaps most importantly, omnipresent advertising? Should these messages > also be scrutinized for any potential or actual ontological confusion they > inspire? > > Everyday reality is constructed and mediated, changing but constant. The > artists behind these works can momentarily peel back the corners of our > shared and assembled real, allowing us to question the motives of those who > create it. These works invite audiences to critically engage with > *all*reality, but neither the works nor artists themselves can topple > the real. > In fearing that they could, we misjudge both their agency and the aims. > Hugh > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Andrea Phillips > wrote: > >> This makes me think of the Trust-E icon for the web: verifying things >> that are true rather than flagging things that are fictional. You'd >> think that verification systems like that would be a big deal, but in >> practice hardly anybody notices the thing. Just like most people >> probably don't notice the little lock icon in their web browser that >> indicates their SSL connection is working properly. If people don't >> immediately know what something means, they kind of tune it out... >> >> Going back to the original question: I really don't know what I think >> our responsibilities are in presenting our fictional worlds. Some >> general rules of thumb seem obvious to me... "Don't put a street >> address on a website unless it's a place you are prepared for players >> to turn up," springs to mind. But that's the intersection of virtual >> and physical, and I think requires more careful management for many, >> many reasons. >> >> And the internet is a messy, disreputable place, so you could argue >> that the person who stumbles onto a fictional website and takes it as >> real is merely in the process of learning a Valuable Lesson About The >> Internet. ...probably in a kinder way than it would otherwise be >> delivered, too. >> >> But what I really want to do is sort of grope around for the edges of >> what seems OK to most people and what doesn't. It may be there's no >> consensus to find, but the mere act of picking up the subject and >> seeing what it does when we poke at it... that's an important process. >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Wendy Despain >> wrote: >> > I think this idea of an icon - universal across many (ideally, all) >> > ARG-like things on the web is brilliant. I'd use it on my projects. >> > >> > Wendy Despain >> > quantumcontent.com >> > >> > >> > On Wed, July 22, 2009 5:04 am, Brian Clark wrote: >> >> I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations >> >> experts >> >> and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain >> >> More >> >> than 40% Fiction"? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org >> >> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On >> >> Behalf Of D B Wall >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM >> >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: >> >> DesignerResponsibilities to the Public >> >> >> >> I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons >> >> associated >> >> with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to call >> >> it >> >> efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, >> >> I >> >> wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities on >> >> public facing materials could be established with similar effect. >> >> Twitter, >> >> Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have effective, >> >> well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >>>This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was >> >>>something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this >> >>>weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. >> >>> >> >>>We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the >> >>>list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're >> >>>putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- >> >>>even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know >> >>> anything >> >>>about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble >> >>>into a piece of your game and think it's real. >> >>> >> >>>One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for >> >>>pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what >> >>>'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk >> >>>about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? >> >>>What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and >> >>>thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. >> >>> >> >>>There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably >> >>>innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call >> >>>the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. >> >>> >> >>>So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your >> >>>responsibilities to the public at large? >> >>> >> >>>-- >> >>>Andrea Phillips >> >>>http://www.aaphillips.com >> >>>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> >>>Words * Culture * Interaction >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >>>ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> >> > >> > >> > Wendy Despain >> > quantumcontent.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From marcus.helm at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 19:33:39 2009 From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:33:39 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: DesignerResponsibilities to the Public In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907271701o4031b525kb43e99f7de69e522@mail.gmail.com> References: <28914580677499544597004729816662051490-Webmail@me.com> <15357105312279612716555262242547736284-Webmail@me.com> <2F0AC022CA344FDF90C5D04D44D991EE@Tricorder> <5c799fd60907230823s2e83fc06tdceb43059c85a48c@mail.gmail.com> <4ca6fcda0907271321v767712f2h3562168d3fc600f4@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907271701o4031b525kb43e99f7de69e522@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0907281633t710916b8i4a104eec7597a36b@mail.gmail.com> Id be happy for that It will be available online after August. hugh On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > I won't be there, but I'd really love to read your paper. It sounds > like something we'd be interested in linking from ARGology.org, > assuming it's available online. > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Hugh Davies wrote: > > Ive been lurking on this thread and ones like it for a while. > > I have to say, I agree completely with Brian on this one. > > > > I'm currently researching ethics of Pervasive and Alternate reality games > > experiences on participants and by standers for my masters research and > im > > delivering a Paper on the subject at ISEA in Belfast next month. Is > anyone > > going to be there? > > > > Anyway, without presenting the whole thing here i conclude the paper with > > something like: > > > > If we are to weight the ethics of presenting these works in public > spaces, > > would that not require us to question all experiences and messages found > in > > public places from media journalism, political and religious statements > and > > perhaps most importantly, omnipresent advertising? Should these messages > > also be scrutinized for any potential or actual ontological confusion > they > > inspire? > > > > Everyday reality is constructed and mediated, changing but constant. The > > artists behind these works can momentarily peel back the corners of our > > shared and assembled real, allowing us to question the motives of those > who > > create it. These works invite audiences to critically engage with > > *all*reality, but neither the works nor artists themselves can topple > > the real. > > In fearing that they could, we misjudge both their agency and the aims. > > Hugh > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Andrea Phillips < > deusexmachinatio at gmail.com > >> wrote: > > > >> This makes me think of the Trust-E icon for the web: verifying things > >> that are true rather than flagging things that are fictional. You'd > >> think that verification systems like that would be a big deal, but in > >> practice hardly anybody notices the thing. Just like most people > >> probably don't notice the little lock icon in their web browser that > >> indicates their SSL connection is working properly. If people don't > >> immediately know what something means, they kind of tune it out... > >> > >> Going back to the original question: I really don't know what I think > >> our responsibilities are in presenting our fictional worlds. Some > >> general rules of thumb seem obvious to me... "Don't put a street > >> address on a website unless it's a place you are prepared for players > >> to turn up," springs to mind. But that's the intersection of virtual > >> and physical, and I think requires more careful management for many, > >> many reasons. > >> > >> And the internet is a messy, disreputable place, so you could argue > >> that the person who stumbles onto a fictional website and takes it as > >> real is merely in the process of learning a Valuable Lesson About The > >> Internet. ...probably in a kinder way than it would otherwise be > >> delivered, too. > >> > >> But what I really want to do is sort of grope around for the edges of > >> what seems OK to most people and what doesn't. It may be there's no > >> consensus to find, but the mere act of picking up the subject and > >> seeing what it does when we poke at it... that's an important process. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Wendy Despain > > >> wrote: > >> > I think this idea of an icon - universal across many (ideally, all) > >> > ARG-like things on the web is brilliant. I'd use it on my projects. > >> > > >> > Wendy Despain > >> > quantumcontent.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, July 22, 2009 5:04 am, Brian Clark wrote: > >> >> I'd be happy to use that icon ... once advertisers, public relations > >> >> experts > >> >> and politicians agree to use it as well. May I suggest a "May Contain > >> >> More > >> >> than 40% Fiction"? > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > >> >> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On > >> >> Behalf Of D B Wall > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:45 PM > >> >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > >> >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week July 20: > >> >> DesignerResponsibilities to the Public > >> >> > >> >> I'm curious this group's reaction to a simple thought... as icons > >> >> associated > >> >> with certain connected/web2.0/social media/whatever you choose to > call > >> >> it > >> >> efforts have become conventions in UI design over the past few years, > >> >> I > >> >> wonder if a simple, universal icon representing fictional realities > on > >> >> public facing materials could be established with similar effect. > >> >> Twitter, > >> >> Facebook, RSS, digg, even USB, and the power on button have > effective, > >> >> well-adopted and unobtrusive icons. Why can't ARGs? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Monday, July 20, 2009, at 10:10AM, "Andrea Phillips" > >> >> > >> >> wrote: > >> >>>This isn't on the list of upcoming topics on the wiki, but this was > >> >>>something that I found myself blathering about a lot at ARGfest this > >> >>>weekend. I thought I'd bring it to the list. > >> >>> > >> >>>We've talked about our responsibilities and ethical guidelines on the > >> >>>list before, mainly in terms of what we owe the players. But we're > >> >>>putting material out there in the real world, and it's possible -- > >> >>>even likely -- that somebody who isn't a player, doesn't know > >> >>> anything > >> >>>about ARGs, and has no reason to doubt your credibility will stumble > >> >>>into a piece of your game and think it's real. > >> >>> > >> >>>One example: In Routes, we made up a couple of fictional websites for > >> >>>pharmaceutical companies, and we did a little nail-biting over what > >> >>>'advanced treatments' we had this company working on. Could we talk > >> >>>about our fictional success with gene therapy to treat Parkinson's? > >> >>>What if a person with Parkinson's came upon our site via Google and > >> >>>thought it was real? We decided there was an ethical problem there. > >> >>> > >> >>>There are other examples that spring to mind, too -- most notably > >> >>>innocent bystanders who might witness something terrifying and call > >> >>>the police that turns out to be a live event for a game. > >> >>> > >> >>>So how do you manage these risks? What do you consider your > >> >>>responsibilities to the public at large? > >> >>> > >> >>>-- > >> >>>Andrea Phillips > >> >>>http://www.aaphillips.com > >> >>>AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >> >>>Words * Culture * Interaction > >> >>>_______________________________________________ > >> >>>ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> >>>ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> >>>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Wendy Despain > >> > quantumcontent.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Andrea Phillips > >> http://www.aaphillips.com > >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >> Words * Culture * Interaction > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:12:40 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:12:40 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com> <7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> I just wanted to quickly thank all of you who suggested Evernote -- this app is a *godsend* to me. I'm using it for taking notes on concalls, storing travel itineraries and confirmation numbers, storage for random challenge or story ideas, clipping web articles to go back to later... I have it on my phone, on my desktop, on the web, and the syncing works beautifully... Man, why didn't I do this sooner?! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From scpeters at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:42:55 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:42:55 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com><000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com><7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47B3B564306845E4860E71771F4DCA65@ruprecht> Yeah, Evernote is my most treasured app, for sure. Speaking of travel itineraries, you should really try tripit.com (and the iPhone app). You forward it confirmation emails from airlines, hotels, rental cars, etc., and it parses them and builds an itinerary for you. It's really pretty amazing. Steve -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:13 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard I just wanted to quickly thank all of you who suggested Evernote -- this app is a *godsend* to me. I'm using it for taking notes on concalls, storing travel itineraries and confirmation numbers, storage for random challenge or story ideas, clipping web articles to go back to later... I have it on my phone, on my desktop, on the web, and the syncing works beautifully... Man, why didn't I do this sooner?! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From scpeters at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:42:55 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:42:55 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com><000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com><7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47B3B564306845E4860E71771F4DCA65@ruprecht> Yeah, Evernote is my most treasured app, for sure. Speaking of travel itineraries, you should really try tripit.com (and the iPhone app). You forward it confirmation emails from airlines, hotels, rental cars, etc., and it parses them and builds an itinerary for you. It's really pretty amazing. Steve -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:13 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard I just wanted to quickly thank all of you who suggested Evernote -- this app is a *godsend* to me. I'm using it for taking notes on concalls, storing travel itineraries and confirmation numbers, storage for random challenge or story ideas, clipping web articles to go back to later... I have it on my phone, on my desktop, on the web, and the syncing works beautifully... Man, why didn't I do this sooner?! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From varineq at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 13:45:08 2009 From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:45:08 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard In-Reply-To: <47B3B564306845E4860E71771F4DCA65@ruprecht> References: <5c799fd60907060554j1cbb0e1bqe7d2e7afdd5e5f67@mail.gmail.com><000d01c9fe5b$a5dfb3b0$f19f1b10$@com><7C9E8671-6A76-4A68-9DE3-6DDC936FED88@nonchalance.com> <5c799fd60907290712s6d600256wd4752b54099c28fc@mail.gmail.com> <47B3B564306845E4860E71771F4DCA65@ruprecht> Message-ID: <82A25E9F-032A-4E4A-BAFF-803ACFDD496F@gmail.com> Wow, I just tried tripit and it works like magic! You are my favorite person of the day, Steve. Michelle On Jul 29, 2009, at 10:42 AM, "Steve Peters" wrote: > Yeah, Evernote is my most treasured app, for sure. Speaking of travel > itineraries, you should really try tripit.com (and the iPhone app). > You > forward it confirmation emails from airlines, hotels, rental cars, > etc., and > it parses them and builds an itinerary for you. It's really pretty > amazing. > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- > bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of Andrea Phillips > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:13 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ToW: Idea Graveyard > > I just wanted to quickly thank all of you who suggested Evernote -- > this app is a *godsend* to me. I'm using it for taking notes on > concalls, storing travel itineraries and confirmation numbers, storage > for random challenge or story ideas, clipping web articles to go back > to later... I have it on my phone, on my desktop, on the web, and the > syncing works beautifully... > > Man, why didn't I do this sooner?! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From julien at faismoijouer.com Fri Jul 31 10:37:21 2009 From: julien at faismoijouer.com (Julien FMJ) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:37:21 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled Message-ID: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm interested in designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting softwares that fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for traditionnal linear stories. I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear stories, then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines (there would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the basic iWork suite. In the past I used Celtx that allow you to collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, storyboard and character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. I found the three following services : five prockets, Novamind and Storyist<%20http://www.storyist.com/> . I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but anyway I wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped design the architecture of ARGs. Thank you in advance ;) --------- julien aubert http://www.faismoijouer.com @juli3n From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:58:41 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:58:41 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907310758t288b0418g3ed1ab169cd16e08@mail.gmail.com> I'm very, very pleased with Scrivener as a writing application. Can't praise it enough. It's for the Mac, though. For Windows, the makers of Scrivener recommend PageFour, but have a nice set of links describing various competing writing/screenwriting apps for Mac and Windows here: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/links.html That said, the way I tend to actually work with a team is this: I have a spec doc in Word with a basic narrative flow in it, an Excel sheet that shows the expected timeline per character, and a separate breakdown in Word for each challenge and live event specifying the technical build, resources required, schedules, etc. I've generally written scripts, blog posts, and other similar material piecemeal, as it was needed, and each in their own document, be that in Word or in a wiki or Bascamp. (Or in same cases, written right into the CMS and then pasted right into an IM session before hitting submit.) Word isn't the most groovetastic piece of software around, but at least you know most everyone will be able to open your documents. I think this is a very YMMV thing, though. Tastes vary. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Julien FMJ wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm interested in > designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting softwares that > fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for traditionnal > linear stories. > I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear stories, > then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines (there > would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the basic iWork > suite. > > In the past I used Celtx that allow you to > collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, storyboard and > character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final > Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. > I found the three following services : five > prockets, > Novamind and Storyist<%20http://www.storyist.com/> > . > > I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but anyway I > wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped design > the architecture of ARGs. > > Thank you in advance ;) > > --------- > julien aubert > http://www.faismoijouer.com > @juli3n > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From scpeters at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 11:27:59 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 08:27:59 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> The main tools I use are a combination of Word for a master design doc, Visio (or OmniGraffle) for flowcharts and Excel for asset lists and what have you. Unwieldy at best, but it gets the job done. The developers of Final Draft have asked No Mimes Media to work with them to help them develop transmedia tools for the next version of their software, as right now it can't even do something as simple as pasting in foreign language fonts or calling out different formats for video vs. audio scripts, etc. It still remains the industry standard for script generation, though. Hope that helps! Steve ----------------------- Steve Peters Partner, No Mimes Media http://www.nomimes.com mobile: 818.422.4898 steve at nomimes.com twitter: vpisteve 34.183042, -118.281252 -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Julien FMJ Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:37 AM To: arg_discuss at igda.org Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled Hello everyone, I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm interested in designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting softwares that fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for traditionnal linear stories. I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear stories, then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines (there would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the basic iWork suite. In the past I used Celtx that allow you to collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, storyboard and character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. I found the three following services : five prockets, Novamind and Storyist<%20http://www.storyist.com/> . I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but anyway I wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped design the architecture of ARGs. Thank you in advance ;) --------- julien aubert http://www.faismoijouer.com @juli3n _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From andrhia at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 11:27:09 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:27:09 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting Message-ID: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to have an official SIG gathering at that time? If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From brooke at giantmice.com Fri Jul 31 12:24:37 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:24:37 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907310758t288b0418g3ed1ab169cd16e08@mail.gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907310758t288b0418g3ed1ab169cd16e08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I will second Scrivener for Mac users. It is one of my my most favorite programs ever - and not just for writing (though I get a good deal of that done on it as well). It's definitely not an intended use, but it is amazing for pulling together websites - no matter how large or complex. Not for the coding of it, but for organizing the various media and text. It's been an invaluable resource on my last few projects. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.html On Jul 31, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > I'm very, very pleased with Scrivener as a writing application. Can't > praise it enough. It's for the Mac, though. For Windows, the makers of > Scrivener recommend PageFour, but have a nice set of links describing > various competing writing/screenwriting apps for Mac and Windows here: From libfli at aol.com Fri Jul 31 12:33:26 2009 From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:33:26 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> Message-ID: <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> having final draft w/trans tools would be so fantastic! i use final draft for scripting my videos and treat them each as their own film.? i use excel to chart out story release and interactivity. word for everything else. and i also use old skool foam core boards - having a tool i can touch and that's up for me to see throughout the day is something i really need when dev the story and design.? that could be due to working in tv writer's rooms where we chart everything out for the group on the wall of writers room... idk - but it works for me. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peters To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG' Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27 am Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled The main tools I use are a combination of Word for a master design doc, Visio (or OmniGraffle) for flowcharts and Excel for asset lists and what have you. Unwieldy at best, but it gets the job done. The developers of Final Draft have asked No Mimes Media to work with them to help them develop transmedia tools for the next version of their software, as right now it can't even do something as simple as pasting in foreign language fonts or calling out different formats for video vs. audio scripts, etc. It still remains the industry standard for script generation, though. Hope that helps! Steve ----------------------- Steve Peters Partner, No Mimes Media http://www.nomimes.com mobile: 818.422.4898 steve at nomimes.com twitter: vpisteve 34.183042, -118.281252 -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Julien FMJ Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:37 AM To: arg_discuss at igda.org Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled Hello everyone, I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm interested in designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting softwares that fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for traditionnal linear stories. I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear stories, then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines (there would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the basic iWork suite. In the past I used Celtx that allow you to collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, storyboard and character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. I found the three following services : five prockets, Novamind and Storyist<%20http://www.storyist.com/> . I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but anyway I wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped design the architecture of ARGs. Thank you in advance ;) --------- julien aubert http://www.faismoijouer.com @juli3n _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From scpeters at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 12:56:22 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:56:22 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7E460E46-C814-4629-AD7C-E4F97E63B610@gmail.com> Oh yeah, and post-its. Lots of post-its. :) *via iPhone* On Jul 31, 2009, at 9:33 AM, libfli at aol.com wrote: > > having final draft w/trans tools would be so fantastic! > > i use final draft for scripting my videos and treat them each as > their own film.? i use excel to chart out story release and > interactivity. > word for everything else. > > and i also use old skool foam core boards - having a tool i can touch > and that's up for me to see throughout the day is something i really > need when dev the story and design.? that could be due to working > in tv writer's rooms where we chart everything out for the group on > the wall of writers room... idk - but it works for me. > > Jan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Peters > To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG' > Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27 am > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled > > > > > > > > > > > The main tools I use are a combination of Word for a master design > doc, > Visio (or OmniGraffle) for flowcharts and Excel for asset lists and > what > have you. Unwieldy at best, but it gets the job done. > > > > The developers of Final Draft have asked No Mimes Media to work with > them to > help them develop transmedia tools for the next version of their > software, > as right now it can't even do something as simple as pasting in > foreign > language fonts or calling out different formats for video vs. audio > scripts, > etc. It still remains the industry standard for script generation, > though. > > > > Hope that helps! > > > > Steve > > > > > > ----------------------- > > Steve Peters > > Partner, No Mimes Media > > http://www.nomimes.com > > mobile: 818.422.4898 > > steve at nomimes.com > > twitter: vpisteve > > 34.183042, -118.281252 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss- > bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of Julien FMJ > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:37 AM > To: arg_discuss at igda.org > Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm > interested in > > designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting > softwares that > > fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for > traditionnal > > linear stories. > > I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear > stories, > > then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines > (there > > would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the > basic iWork > > suite. > > > > In the past I used Celtx that allow you to > > collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, > storyboard and > > character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final > > Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. > > I found the three following services : five > > prockets, > > Novamind and Storyist<%20http:// > www.storyist.com/> > > . > > > > I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but > anyway I > > wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped > design > > the architecture of ARGs. > > > > Thank you in advance ;) > > > > --------- > > julien aubert > > http://www.faismoijouer.com > > @juli3n > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:18:07 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:18:07 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Andrea, I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm thinking SF? Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around March, around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so far.) On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to > have an official SIG gathering at that time? > > If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be > the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From sk8gundy at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:20:24 2009 From: sk8gundy at gmail.com (S Chen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:20:24 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55165ca60907311020v366ea6ffh9b32910fde422d24@mail.gmail.com> Yes, do you mean GDCA or GDC S.F.? Sande On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea, > I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm thinking > SF? > Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around March, > around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so far.) > > > From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:22:27 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:22:27 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <55165ca60907311020v366ea6ffh9b32910fde422d24@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <55165ca60907311020v366ea6ffh9b32910fde422d24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: dunno which one Andrea was referring to in her e-mail... hence my post... On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:20 PM, S Chen wrote: > Yes, do you mean GDCA or GDC S.F.? > > Sande > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu > wrote: > > > Andrea, > > I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm thinking > > SF? > > Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around > March, > > around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so far.) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:29:04 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:29:04 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea, > I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm thinking SF? > Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around March, > around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so far.) > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > >> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to >> have an official SIG gathering at that time? >> >> If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be >> the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > http://www.palefirer.com > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > Skype: PaleFireR > AIM: PaleFireR > > -- > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From sk8gundy at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:43:24 2009 From: sk8gundy at gmail.com (S Chen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:43:24 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55165ca60907311143u2a3416e5ucce7aa270563e510@mail.gmail.com> Would this be a social gathering or an actual session in the conference? Sande On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > > From ian at studiocypher.com Fri Jul 31 14:17:25 2009 From: ian at studiocypher.com (Ian Pottmeyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:17:25 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A733535.2080703@studiocypher.com> There's actually FIVE GDCs: The main one in SF, GDC Austin, GDC Canada, GDC Europe, and GDC China. -Ian Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea, > I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm thinking SF? > Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around March, > around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so far.) > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > >> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to >> have an official SIG gathering at that time? >> >> If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be >> the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> > > > > From wendeth at wendydespain.com Fri Jul 31 14:40:20 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:40:20 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <222d84a0e78161dc1e2465fd114327e6.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Actually, I think it's too late for getting SIG meetings on the schedule at Austin GDC. I think the discussion is about SF GDC... You know, branding is supposed to make things less confusing, not more. Good job on the branding fail, GDC. Heh. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com On Fri, July 31, 2009 10:29 am, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu > wrote: >> Andrea, >> I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm >> thinking SF? >> Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around >> March, >> around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so >> far.) >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips >> wrote: >> >>> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to >>> have an official SIG gathering at that time? >>> >>> If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be >>> the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. >>> >>> -- >>> Andrea Phillips >>> http://www.aaphillips.com >>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>> Words * Culture * Interaction >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. >> >> http://www.palefirer.com >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ >> Skype: PaleFireR >> AIM: PaleFireR >> >> -- >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:52:11 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:52:11 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <222d84a0e78161dc1e2465fd114327e6.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> <222d84a0e78161dc1e2465fd114327e6.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Andrea already said she meant Austin GDC... And, yes, the panel submission deadline has already passed. So she is talking about a social gathering. Meaning, over drinks... b On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Wendy Despain wrote: > Actually, I think it's too late for getting SIG meetings on the > schedule at Austin GDC. I think the discussion is about SF GDC... > > You know, branding is supposed to make things less confusing, not > more. Good job on the branding fail, GDC. Heh. > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > > On Fri, July 31, 2009 10:29 am, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > > logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu > > wrote: > >> Andrea, > >> I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm > >> thinking SF? > >> Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around > >> March, > >> around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so > >> far.) > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to > >>> have an official SIG gathering at that time? > >>> > >>> If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be > >>> the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Andrea Phillips > >>> http://www.aaphillips.com > >>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >>> Words * Culture * Interaction > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > >> > >> http://www.palefirer.com > >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ > >> Skype: PaleFireR > >> AIM: PaleFireR > >> > >> -- > >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Andrea Phillips > > http://www.aaphillips.com > > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From dominic.de.haas at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 19:17:55 2009 From: dominic.de.haas at gmail.com (Dominic de Haas) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 01:17:55 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <7E460E46-C814-4629-AD7C-E4F97E63B610@gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> <7E460E46-C814-4629-AD7C-E4F97E63B610@gmail.com> Message-ID: <400e08bc0907311617k228c943bl35a146ff6f12d7dc@mail.gmail.com> Although I can not really add anything to the software as suggested by the others, I did want to thank you all for discussions like these that help out starting designers like myself. Thanks a lot, Dominic On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Steve Peters wrote: > Oh yeah, and post-its. Lots of post-its. :) > > *via iPhone* > > > On Jul 31, 2009, at 9:33 AM, libfli at aol.com wrote: > > >> having final draft w/trans tools would be so fantastic! >> >> i use final draft for scripting my videos and treat them each as >> their own film.? i use excel to chart out story release and interactivity. >> word for everything else. >> >> and i also use old skool foam core boards - having a tool i can touch >> and that's up for me to see throughout the day is something i really >> need when dev the story and design.? that could be due to working >> in tv writer's rooms where we chart everything out for the group on >> the wall of writers room... idk - but it works for me. >> >> Jan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Steve Peters >> To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG' >> Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27 am >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The main tools I use are a combination of Word for a master design doc, >> Visio (or OmniGraffle) for flowcharts and Excel for asset lists and what >> have you. Unwieldy at best, but it gets the job done. >> >> >> >> The developers of Final Draft have asked No Mimes Media to work with them >> to >> help them develop transmedia tools for the next version of their software, >> as right now it can't even do something as simple as pasting in foreign >> language fonts or calling out different formats for video vs. audio >> scripts, >> etc. It still remains the industry standard for script generation, though. >> >> >> >> Hope that helps! >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------- >> >> Steve Peters >> >> Partner, No Mimes Media >> >> http://www.nomimes.com >> >> mobile: 818.422.4898 >> >> steve at nomimes.com >> >> twitter: vpisteve >> >> 34.183042, -118.281252 >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Julien FMJ >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:37 AM >> To: arg_discuss at igda.org >> Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> I'd like to ask you a question that's torturing me since I'm interested in >> >> designing ARG. I always wondered if there were screenwriting softwares >> that >> >> fit better the transmedia problematic than softwares made for traditionnal >> >> linear stories. >> >> I'm thinking about a soft that would allow me to create a linear stories, >> >> then cut it into components, then drag and drop it into timelines (there >> >> would be timelines for each media developped). For now I use the basic >> iWork >> >> suite. >> >> >> >> In the past I used Celtx that allow you to >> >> collaborate with other people around traditional screen play, storyboard >> and >> >> character description. Some friends of mine advised me Final >> >> Draft<%20http://www.finaldraft.com>. >> >> I found the three following services : five >> >> prockets, >> >> Novamind and Storyist<%20http:// >> www.storyist.com/> >> >> . >> >> >> >> I guess there is no easy way to build the structure of an ARG but anyway I >> >> wonder if you have examples of schemas, tables or tools that helped design >> >> the architecture of ARGs. >> >> >> >> Thank you in advance ;) >> >> >> >> --------- >> >> julien aubert >> >> http://www.faismoijouer.com >> >> @juli3n >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From ted.aronson at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 19:43:45 2009 From: ted.aronson at gmail.com (Ted Aronson) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:43:45 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Hello! Message-ID: Hi everyone, My name is Ted, and I just joined the list, so I wanted to introduce myself. I'm a fourth year student at the University of Pennsylvania, about to finish up my BSE in Digital Media Design. I'm originally from Boston, but I got my real start in the IGDA here in Philly. Back in 2006, I ran into the Year Zero campaign, and was immediately hooked, both on that particular game and ARGs in general. For my senior project this year, I'm going to be creating an augmented reality game, which I hope will incorporate elements inspired by ARGs. I joined the list, hoping for some interesting discussions, cool games, and possibly some inspiration for my own game. And that's my story. Looking forward to future emails! Sincerely, Ted Aronson From a.r.nakama at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 20:11:20 2009 From: a.r.nakama at gmail.com (A Nakama) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:11:20 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> <222d84a0e78161dc1e2465fd114327e6.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: In theory, I'll be at the GDCA as a volunteer. I'd love to get together with other members of the SIG, whether the meeting's official or not. Though it seems there's mostly chaos and confusion currently. :) ~ Adam Nakama On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea already said she meant Austin GDC... And, yes, the panel submission > deadline has already passed. So she is talking about a social gathering. > Meaning, over drinks... > > b > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Wendy Despain >wrote: > > > Actually, I think it's too late for getting SIG meetings on the > > schedule at Austin GDC. I think the discussion is about SF GDC... > > > > You know, branding is supposed to make things less confusing, not > > more. Good job on the branding fail, GDC. Heh. > > > > Wendy Despain > > quantumcontent.com > > > > > > On Fri, July 31, 2009 10:29 am, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > > Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > > > logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Burcu Bakioglu > > > wrote: > > >> Andrea, > > >> I think there are two GDCs. One in Austin, the other one... I'm > > >> thinking SF? > > >> Not sure when the Austin one is, but the main one is sometime around > > >> March, > > >> around the time of SxSW (which is why I never made it to that so > > >> far.) > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Phillips > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Quick poll -- how many among us are going to GDC? Would we like to > > >>> have an official SIG gathering at that time? > > >>> > > >>> If there's interest, I'd love for a volunteer to step forward to be > > >>> the contact person for this. I won't be at GDC myself. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Andrea Phillips > > >>> http://www.aaphillips.com > > >>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > >>> Words * Culture * Interaction > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > >> > > >> http://www.palefirer.com > > >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ > > >> Skype: PaleFireR > > >> AIM: PaleFireR > > >> > > >> -- > > >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Andrea Phillips > > > http://www.aaphillips.com > > > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > > > > Wendy Despain > > quantumcontent.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > http://www.palefirer.com > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > Skype: PaleFireR > AIM: PaleFireR > > -- > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From me at addlepated.net Fri Jul 31 13:33:25 2009 From: me at addlepated.net (D. Cook) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:33:25 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9978A76D-B4D5-44BB-9919-15AB58CAAD03@addlepated.net> I may likely be there, but I'm not actually an IGDA member. I'd be happy to sit and lurk, though. -D. On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :)