[arg_discuss] Commercial ARGs with learning outcomes

[Steve Vosloo]

Thanks to all for the responses. It seems one needs to tread carefully 
when working with marketers AND seeking educational outcomes in an ARG. 
But that doesn't mean it's not possible to make both groups -- marketers 
and educators -- happy.

It also seems best to canvas commercial ARG designers and the 
advertising agencies of commercial companies, rather than approach the 
marketing departments of commercial companies directly.

--Steve


Brian Clark wrote:

> I tend to agree with the observations of many of the other people here: for

> the most part, marketers are marketers and more concerned with the results

> than the pedagogy of how they get produced. So there's probably an accurate

> observation that commercial ARG developers are more closely associated with

> your mission (as they we're iteratively studying processes that are

> indistinguishable from what you're interested) ... less likely to find

> interest from our clients.

>

> The exception might be the communities related to Serious Gaming and Games

> for Change -- the spots with the NFP arts and mission world collide with

> gaming. There, you've got similar goals in addition to similar interest in

> approach.

>

> All of that, though, comes with the caveat that educational ARG development

> as part of the experiential education strand is well represented here in the

> SIG (so this group is a good crossing ground for these various camps, for

> certain!)

>

>

> Brian

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On

> Behalf Of Mike Monello

> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 3:05 PM

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Commercial ARGs with learning outcomes

>

> Marketers are only interested in the kind of learning that leads you to buy

> a product. Yes, these companies have altruistic aspects to them, such as the

> Ronald McDonald House, but if you are talking to the marketing department,

> they want to sell products, and any education they do leads to that sale.

>

> But I'm not even sure that the people you would want to speak to are inside

> those companies. For instance, I'm not sure anyone at Audi really understand

> how the story of Art of the Heist pushed players to educate themselves about

> the features and benefits of the A3 on their own terms. They just were not

> connected to it in that way. They would talk about the ads, and "engagement"

> and they might cite some results, but people like myself and Brian Clark

> actually owned that part of the campaign - built it, brought it to life,

> monitored the results, etc. All they would likely recognize was that people

> who engaged in the story went to the online car configurator and engaged

> with that.

>

> I'm willing to bet the same is true for most marketing campaigns - if you

> want to get into how and why it worked, go to the people who actually did

> it.

>

> -Mike

>

>

> On 1/12/09 2:22 PM, "Nathan Mishler" <nathan at studiocypher.com> wrote:

>

> It's possible.

>

> There's a problem with the thought that there are Games and then there are

> Educational Games. Many people think that only learning comes out of games

> that are specifically designed to teach. The thing is, ALL games teach.

> Granted, much of what entertainment games teach is not useful or applicable

> in any form in the real world. Okay, you learned how to avoid the alien's

> attacks on level 8. That is very specialized knowledge.

>

> ARGs on the other hand tend to involve more "real world" knowledge, using

> things that people already know (or can learn) as part of their puzzles.

> They also tend to encourage players to go out into the world and doing this

> learning on their own. Of course now I'm treading into a lot of things

> discussed in Dave S's book about the differences between formal gaming and

> the sort of hybrid game / storytelling systems that are in ARGs. And that's

> a looooong discussion.

>

> I'd say go for it, but recognize that they might not care that they make

> "learning" functions. Learning is part and parcel with the game, but they

> might not be interested tuning their marketing args towards a "benefit of

> all mankind" sort of thing. There's still a belief in some circles that

> games are "just entertainment" and any attempt to "shoehorn" learning into

> them will make the games unpopular. I think that's silly, seeing as games

> are nothing BUT learning systems, but not everyone recognizes it.

>

> On the other hand, Mc Donalds for instance is part of the whole "Children's

> Hospital" scene so it's not like they are entirely against the public good.

> If you can get their backing you could do a bunch of cool stuff.

>

> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Steve Vosloo <

> steve.vosloo at shuttleworthfoundation.org> wrote:

>

>   

>> The Foundation for which I work tries to innovate within the space of

>> education (formal and informal) (amongst other spaces). I've suggested

>>     

> ARGs

>   

>> as an innovative way for youth to develop certain skills whilst they

>>     

> employ

>   

>> social media -- sometimes in a pop culture-based story context.

>>

>> The way that we work is that usually we pilot demonstration projects and

>> then present the results to bigger stakeholders who can scale these

>> projects, e.g. the Department of Education in South Africa.

>>

>> After having read Jane McGonical's /Why I Love Bees: A Case Study in

>> Collective Intelligence Gaming/ and other pieces on the learning outcomes

>>     

> of

>   

>> ARG play, I'm asking this: if commercial companies use ARGs for marketing

>> purposes, and players learn from them, then are these companies some of

>>     

> the

>   

>> stakeholders that the Shuttleworth Foundation should try to influence? Did

>>     

> I

>   

>> Love Bees turn Microsoft's gaming unit into creators of educational

>> experiences? Did /The Lost Ring/ mean that McDonalds is not only in the

>>     

> fast

>   

>> food business, but in the business of education too?

>>

>> All thoughts would be much appreciated.

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Steve

>>

>> --

>> Steve Vosloo

>> Fellow, Communication and Analytical Skills Development

>> The Shuttleworth Foundation

>>

>> Tel: +27 21 970 1240 | Fax: +27 21 970 1241

>> Web: www.shuttleworthfoundation.org

>> Blog: www.innovatingeducation.wordpress.com

>>

>> Email disclaimer: wiki.tsf.org.za/EmailDisclaimer

>>

>>

>>

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>

> ---

> Mike Monello

> Partner, Campfire

> 62 White Street, 3E

> New York, NY 10013

> 212-612-9600

> http://www.campfirenyc.com

>

>

>

>

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-- 
Steve Vosloo
Fellow, Communication and Analytical Skills Development
The Shuttleworth Foundation

Tel: +27 21 970 1240 | Fax: +27 21 970 1241
Web: www.shuttleworthfoundation.org
Blog: www.innovatingeducation.wordpress.com

Email disclaimer: wiki.tsf.org.za/EmailDisclaimer