From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 00:17:43 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:17:43 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Hello! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25de1e4f0907312117t20cc63f5ja1c76baef30a35d1@mail.gmail.com> Hello and welcome to this list Aaron. I hope it'll bring you everything you're looking for...And then some more ! Your timing in joining the group is very good, as we were discussion the ideal training of people involved in ARG design : I can only encourage you to take a look at the conversation in the group archives and pitch in ! Another thing you could do is get qn qccount and add an entry under your name on the group's wiki (more specifically there) based on your introduction to the list : if you need help with that, feel free to ask and I'll be happy to help. All the best,. T. From patrick at ndreams.com Sat Aug 1 04:22:27 2009 From: patrick at ndreams.com (Patrick O'Luanaigh) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 09:22:27 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Statistics from Xi In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0907312117t20cc63f5ja1c76baef30a35d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <25de1e4f0907312117t20cc63f5ja1c76baef30a35d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I know that quite a few people on the list are keen for accurate stats so I thought I'd pass on some information about our ARG called Xi, which ran inside PlayStation Home (a virtual world accessible by anyone with a PlayStation 3 console), across the web and in the real world from March to June this year. It was an ARG created and developed for Sony in order to promote their Home virtual world and to push it in terms of technology and interactivity. We believe it was the first ever console-based ARG, and we were very pleased with how it went. Xi lasted for 12 weeks, and we ended up with 4.2 million visits to our central space inside the Home virtual world, and 623,000 unique players took part. Wednesday was the most popular day of the week for players; we'd expected weekends to be the most popular, but Saturdays and Sundays were actually lower than all five weekdays, which was surprising! Xi ran across North America and Europe (although it was accessible from some other countries) and was fully localised into five languages which made development *interesting*... Anyway, if anyone wants to know any more about it, please feel free to email me at patrick(at)ndreams.com or take a look in the 'Xi' section of our website. All the best, Patrick On 1 Aug 2009, at 05:17, Thomas Maillioux wrote: > Hello and welcome to this list Aaron. I hope it'll bring you > everything > you're looking for...And then some more ! > > Your timing in joining the group is very good, as we were discussion > the > ideal training of people involved in ARG design : I can only > encourage you > to take a look at the conversation in the group archives and pitch > in ! > Another thing you could do is get qn qccount and add an entry under > your > name on the group's wiki (more specifically > there >) > based on your introduction to the list : if you need help with that, > feel > free to ask and I'll be happy to help. > > All the best,. > T. > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss __________________________ Patrick O'Luanaigh CEO, nDreams Ltd __________________________ Trident House, 38-44 Victoria Road, Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 7PG Email: patrick at ndreams.com www.ndreams.com Tel: +44 (0)1252 375754 Mobile: +44 (0)7775 740121 __________________________ Company #: 04362105 VAT #: 889540272 Registered Business Address: 6 Burnsall Close, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 8NN From julien at extralab.fr Sun Aug 2 17:23:43 2009 From: julien at extralab.fr (Julien Aubert) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 23:23:43 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <400e08bc0907311617k228c943bl35a146ff6f12d7dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> <7E460E46-C814-4629-AD7C-E4F97E63B610@gmail.com> <400e08bc0907311617k228c943bl35a146ff6f12d7dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46c4cdce0908021423i64050e7rf2db44fde83ba76d@mail.gmail.com> I'm very very glad about all your answers. I gave a short try to Scrivener and OmniGraffle that look like fantastic tools for putting a lot of ideas in a same document. In addition, I just bought a A3 (42 * 29,7 centimeters) notebook. As Dominic did, I'd like to thank you very much for giving us this tips, they really help beginners like me. --------- julien aubert http://www.faismoijouer.com +33618931813 @juli3n From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 00:10:16 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:10:16 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] screenwriting software ARG enabled In-Reply-To: <46c4cdce0908021423i64050e7rf2db44fde83ba76d@mail.gmail.com> References: <46c4cdce0907310737u4fd94770q5608f3631fd7141f@mail.gmail.com> <95E8B486A049461794CFD48CF3EC7A9D@ruprecht> <8CBE013C37780B5-176C-18D8@webmail-mf01.sysops.aol.com> <7E460E46-C814-4629-AD7C-E4F97E63B610@gmail.com> <400e08bc0907311617k228c943bl35a146ff6f12d7dc@mail.gmail.com> <46c4cdce0908021423i64050e7rf2db44fde83ba76d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908022110r529451e6wa3cc18dfda5345cb@mail.gmail.com> Don't forget the huge Muji notebooks I always lug around, Julien. And a Jan said...whiteboards. Whiteboards !!! 2009/8/2 Julien Aubert > I'm very very glad about all your answers. > > I gave a short try to Scrivener and OmniGraffle that look like fantastic > tools for putting a lot of ideas in a same document. In addition, I just > bought a A3 (42 * 29,7 centimeters) notebook. > > As Dominic did, I'd like to thank you very much for giving us this tips, > they really help beginners like me. > > --------- > julien aubert > http://www.faismoijouer.com > +33618931813 > @juli3n > From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 13:51:04 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:51:04 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IGDA ARG SIG chat on IRC - Monday August the 3rd, 2009 Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908031051h4a6014f0y258a3c3f62f49105@mail.gmail.com> Hi folks ! It's that time of the week again when the more and the merrier get on the IGDA ARG SIG together ! Schedule is the same as usual, 4PM Eastern Time one of our weekly IRC chats will take place ! Come share your week, come share your thoughts, come as you are to meet the resident IRC lurkers ! I might or might not be able to attend tonight, depending whether Kansan artist Lee Hammond's studio (where I'll be taking pictures of the Personal Effects : Dark Art book for an upcoming review) has wifi enabled or not. I have no doubt that the usual suspects will be there to greet you though ! For coordination purposes, check http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5 If you don't know how to get on IRC, we've got you covered : just go to http://www.igda.org/wiki/ Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ IRC_Chats/IRC_Instructionsand follow the step for your connection method of choice ! Have a good time ! T. From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:53:34 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:53:34 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell Message-ID: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> We have a lot of amazing people who have done a lot of amazing things here. I wish more of you were more forthright about telling us what you're doing and what you're especially proud of. A surprisingly modest crew, you are. With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come up with. ^_^ For me, I'm still very proud of a blog post I wrote at the end of the first season of Perplex City: http://wayback.perplexcitystories.com/?url=www.thescarlettkite.com/archives/2007/02/the_heart_of_th.html I felt like it captured a lot of raw emotion from that character, who had been through a lot and really transformed over the course of the game. And to some extent that character was speaking with the voice of the players, some of whom felt betrayed by that character's sister in the same way that Scarlett herself felt betrayed. It just felt like really good work at the time... I'm also outlandishly proud of Breeder, the little Routes Facebook widget: http://www.routesgame.com/games/?challengeId=1 It has some interface hiccups, but I was trying to design a fun and cute demonstration of non-Mendelian heredity -- educational without bludgeoning you over the head with it. So! What have you got? Link us up! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From davidvarela at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:33:49 2009 From: davidvarela at gmail.com (David Varela) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:33:49 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll jump in, also with a highlight from Perplex City. The murder of Monica Grand was my first real piece of ARG work, so it will always have a place in my heart. As a piece of audio drama, it's still pretty powerful - players stumbled across this recording not realising what it was, and the sound effects are really quite graphic. It gave me enormous satisfaction when the players started reporting it had given them nightmares: http://perplexcitywiki.com/wiki/Track_3.mp3 And I suppose the audience reaction is what I'm really looking for. At the end of Xi, there were a few forum posts that got me a little choked up. Here's one: http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=bEN_PS3_Xi&thread.id=31074 So it's not just about the craft, it's about how it moves people. That's what really makes me proud. David Varela Producer www.nDreams.com On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come > up with. ^_^ > From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:43:19 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:43:19 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <9978A76D-B4D5-44BB-9919-15AB58CAAD03@addlepated.net> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> <9978A76D-B4D5-44BB-9919-15AB58CAAD03@addlepated.net> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908031243j178e7aadpc9678b9ac8e0c45e@mail.gmail.com> Actually -- it looks like I was wrong and the topic under discussion is the SF GDC. (Though we do need to arrange for a social meetup at the Austin GDC as well.) I'm honestly not sure what the SIG has done for gatherings in the past. Did we sign up on the official sheet for a meeting in a IGDA booth or conference room? Did we just have informal social gatherings in a corner somewhere? If you've made it to a SIG gathering at any GDC in the past, please advise! On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:33 PM, D. Cook wrote: > I may likely be there, but I'm not actually an IGDA member. I'd be happy to > sit and lurk, though. > > -D. > > On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > >> Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus >> logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:23:32 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:23:32 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Heh. Well, as we're having Perplex City celebration day... Actually, I was going to nominate the setup for the Monica Grand thing. I was very pleased with the Salk logs: a set of correspondence between Monica and Pietro, the journalist she was hoping would help her turn herself in to the authorities: http://perplexcitywiki.com/wiki/Salklogs.doc This was one of those things which was conceived to fill a hole: we had an idea for a cool puzzle (locate a person in a huge apartment complex) and needed some way to give clues about when Monica was entering and leaving her apartment. I started out thinking it'd be 1,000 words, tops, but it turned out closer to 6,000 because the characters had a lot to say! I feel like it's a successful story with good character development as well as a piece of writing that did a puzzle job - people have told me since that they found it moving and memorable - that's really the sweet spot for me. And then this, from the We Tell Stories project last year: http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php?option=com_altcaster&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=e8b78cbab5. Which was silly and fun - I love opportunities to do live improvisational writing above almost any other element of games work. It was a small live-online event, where we really took everything the software would do - polls, comments, images... - and found a way to fit them in! I guess that's what I love - when you can find a way to make the technology, the puzzles and the story work together so that none takes precedence and no one's left going "they just did this to give us a clue/introduce us to this tech". Sometimes there's no way around it, but if you can find that spot, it's great. - Naomi On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:33 PM, David Varela wrote: > I'll jump in, also with a highlight from Perplex City. The murder of Monica > Grand was my first real piece of ARG work, so it will always have a place > in > my heart. As a piece of audio drama, it's still pretty powerful - players > stumbled across this recording not realising what it was, and the sound > effects are really quite graphic. It gave me enormous satisfaction when the > players started reporting it had given them nightmares: > > http://perplexcitywiki.com/wiki/Track_3.mp3 > > And I suppose the audience reaction is what I'm really looking for. At the > end of Xi, there were a few forum posts that got me a little choked up. > Here's one: > > > http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=bEN_PS3_Xi&thread.id=31074 > So it's not just about the craft, it's about how it moves people. That's > what really makes me proud. > > David Varela > > Producer > www.nDreams.com > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > > > > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of > > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the > > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- > > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a > > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you > > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was > > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come > > up with. ^_^ > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From dflor71 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:31:24 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:31:24 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580908031331v5bdf3283g38b9dfea3ad0978f@mail.gmail.com> I'm going to assume the question relates to ARG-specific things; I'm not going to bring up my game design work, things I did before I even knew ARGs existed. But, if you're curious of that, you may contact me privately. :) I'm currently working on "Rachel's Walk" (http://www.rachelswalk.com/), which I can't really tell you about yet, but I'm especially proud of how it's coming along and the development and design the team has been doing. It's been a little over a year in the making, and I think it's going to be well worth it once it's opened to the masses. In my heart I feel it's going to be rather revolutionary if we can do it right, hence the diligence and the time we're putting in to it; it's something we certainly don't want to rush. And I'm particularly proud of the response I got for my first ARG, Looking Glass Labs. In the back of my mind I'm fearful I'll never be able to match that, but lord knows I'm gonna try. Tnx & Rgds... David Flor Darklight Interactive - http://www.dlimedia.com/ "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Naomi Alderman wrote: > Heh. Well, as we're having Perplex City celebration day... Actually, I was > going to nominate the setup for the Monica Grand thing. I was very pleased > with the Salk logs: a set of correspondence between Monica and Pietro, the > journalist she was hoping would help her turn herself in to the authorities: > http://perplexcitywiki.com/wiki/Salklogs.doc > > This was one of those things which was conceived to fill a hole: we had an > idea for a cool puzzle (locate a person in a huge apartment complex) and > needed some way to give clues about when Monica was entering and leaving her > apartment. I started out thinking it'd be 1,000 words, tops, but it turned > out closer to 6,000 because the characters had a lot to say! I feel like > it's a successful story with good character development as well as a piece > of writing that did a puzzle job - people have told me since that they found > it moving and memorable - that's really the sweet spot for me. > > And then this, from the We Tell Stories project last year: > http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php?option=com_altcaster&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=e8b78cbab5. > Which was silly and fun - I love opportunities to do live improvisational > writing above almost any other element of games work. It was a small > live-online event, where we really took everything the software would do - > polls, comments, images... - and found a way to fit them in! > > I guess that's what I love - when you can find a way to make the technology, > the puzzles and the story work together so that none takes precedence and no > one's left going "they just did this to give us a clue/introduce us to this > tech". Sometimes there's no way around it, but if you can find that spot, > it's great. > > - Naomi > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:33 PM, David Varela wrote: > >> I'll jump in, also with a highlight from Perplex City. The murder of Monica >> Grand was my first real piece of ARG work, so it will always have a place >> in >> my heart. As a piece of audio drama, it's still pretty powerful - players >> stumbled across this recording not realising what it was, and the sound >> effects are really quite graphic. It gave me enormous satisfaction when the >> players started reporting it had given them nightmares: >> >> http://perplexcitywiki.com/wiki/Track_3.mp3 >> >> And I suppose the audience reaction is what I'm really looking for. At the >> end of Xi, there were a few forum posts that got me a little choked up. >> Here's one: >> >> >> http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=bEN_PS3_Xi&thread.id=31074 >> So it's not just about the craft, it's about how it moves people. That's >> what really makes me proud. >> >> David Varela >> >> Producer >> www.nDreams.com >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: >> >> > >> > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of >> > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the >> > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- >> > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a >> > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you >> > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was >> > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come >> > up with. ^_^ >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From dflor71 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:33:28 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:33:28 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IGDA ARG SIG chat on IRC - Monday August the 3rd, 2009 In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0908031051h4a6014f0y258a3c3f62f49105@mail.gmail.com> References: <25de1e4f0908031051h4a6014f0y258a3c3f62f49105@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b4b0580908031333h3b26d1ecib098c44da855ec5f@mail.gmail.com> 4PM Eastern? Geez... Don't you people have... you know... jobs?!? :P Seriously doubt I can make it, but we'll see. Tnx & Rgds... David Flor Darklight Interactive - http://www.dlimedia.com/ "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Thomas Maillioux wrote: > Hi folks ! > > It's that time of the week again when the more and the merrier get on the > IGDA ARG SIG together ! Schedule is the same as usual, 4PM Eastern Time one > of our weekly IRC chats will take place ! Come share your week, come share > your thoughts, come as you are to meet the resident IRC lurkers ! > > I might or might not be able to attend tonight, depending whether Kansan > artist Lee Hammond's studio (where I'll be taking pictures of the Personal > Effects : Dark Art book for an upcoming review) has wifi enabled or not. I > have no doubt that the usual suspects will be there to greet you though ! > > For coordination purposes, check > http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5 > > If you don't know how to get on IRC, we've got you covered : just go to > http://www.igda.org/wiki/ > Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/ > IRC_Chats/IRC_Instructionsand > follow the step for your connection method of choice ! Have a good > time > ! > > T. > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:29:24 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:29:24 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] Weekly IGDA ARG SIG chat on IRC - Monday August the 3rd, 2009 In-Reply-To: <50b4b0580908031333h3b26d1ecib098c44da855ec5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <25de1e4f0908031051h4a6014f0y258a3c3f62f49105@mail.gmail.com> <50b4b0580908031333h3b26d1ecib098c44da855ec5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908031429o11ba67e7k5bf4b35b68cfca98@mail.gmail.com> You should complain about not having a job where participating into an IRC session with the up-and-coming masterminds of ARG and transmedia storytelling doesn't count as one of your responsibilities, David ;) More seriously, you're quite right in stating that the schedule might not be that optimal for everyone : surely that would be grounds for a second round of polling the members of the list sometime in the future to encourage participation to the IRC chats, which I'll do my best to put in motion this week. Best, T. 2009/8/3 David Flor > 4PM Eastern? Geez... Don't you people have... you know... jobs?!? :P > > Seriously doubt I can make it, but we'll see. > > Tnx & Rgds... > David Flor > Darklight Interactive - http://www.dlimedia.com/ > From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:43:29 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:43:29 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Honoring Dave Szulborski Message-ID: <5c799fd60908031643y63a115eahcfb4359a364c5328@mail.gmail.com> With big thanks to Dee Cook and Michelle Senderhauf, we finally got the IGDA Memorial for Dave Szulborski up... during ARGfest, actually: http://igda.org/wiki/Memorials/Dave_Szulborski Now I'm tackling the next step -- getting Dave's Wikipedia page reinstated. Any Wikipedians interested in this process might want to weight in here and spread the word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_August_3 Thanks! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From wendeth at wendydespain.com Mon Aug 3 20:05:45 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:05:45 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Honoring Dave Szulborski In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031643y63a115eahcfb4359a364c5328@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031643y63a115eahcfb4359a364c5328@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88ac608b77f54506df6540f55a8a8240.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Wow, this is so great! Thank you to all who worked on it! Wendy Despain Writing SIG Chair On Mon, August 3, 2009 4:43 pm, Andrea Phillips wrote: > With big thanks to Dee Cook and Michelle Senderhauf, we finally got > the IGDA Memorial for Dave Szulborski up... during ARGfest, actually: > http://igda.org/wiki/Memorials/Dave_Szulborski > > Now I'm tackling the next step -- getting Dave's Wikipedia page > reinstated. Any Wikipedians interested in this process might want to > weight in here and spread the word: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_August_3 > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:20:45 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:20:45 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Honoring Dave Szulborski In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031643y63a115eahcfb4359a364c5328@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031643y63a115eahcfb4359a364c5328@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908031720i1d0ec196od741293b60f0d38b@mail.gmail.com> Well, that was fast. Dave's Wikipedia page has been restored, and it's here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Szulborski I'd really appreciate your help in getting this article up to spec, particularly in citing those Wikipedian reliable third-party sources. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > With big thanks to Dee Cook and Michelle Senderhauf, we finally got > the IGDA Memorial for Dave Szulborski up... during ARGfest, actually: > http://igda.org/wiki/Memorials/Dave_Szulborski > > Now I'm tackling the next step -- getting Dave's Wikipedia page > reinstated. Any Wikipedians interested in this process might want to > weight in here and spread the word: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_August_3 > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bclark at gmdstudios.com Tue Aug 4 16:30:35 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:30:35 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D1C2DA5B03540939B5DC5B98AA292DA@Tricorder> > In your body of work, what are the couple of things you've > done that you're the absolute most proud of? I can pick out a couple, although it pains me a bit that I'm not picking a moment from "Art of the Heist". Before ARG, a collaboration between Gregg Hale and the folks at Haxan Films, David Goyer and GMD Studios did an eight-month prelude (and then broadcast extended reality) for a television show called "Freakylinks". The lead character (on the Web at least) was voiced by Brian Cain (who's now at Campfire and was also involved in Heist and other stuff). Building out Derek Barnes' history of paranormal investigations was a Photoshopping and prop building joy best typified by "Stormy Day" the fictional three-legged South Florida stripper (who continues to get invitations and inquiries to this day): A Stripper With Something Extra: http://tinyurl.com/mkhaeq ... people literally thought (once Fox announced the television show) that the network was ripping off poor little Freakylinks.com :) At the other end of the extremes, I'm really proud of physical event in Eldritch Errors that was really daring -- asking players to drive to rural West Virginia, take an antique train up a mountain, and be stranded there overnight with dubious fictional characters from the narrative. It was a three-day experience for most of the participants, with a full 36-hour stretch of "in character" interaction. We wrote a little behind the scenes wrap up about it (http://tinyurl.com/ysplrj) but like many of my favorite moments, I only get to hear about it from the players that participated in it. From andres at jengibre.com.ar Tue Aug 4 16:51:22 2009 From: andres at jengibre.com.ar (Andres M. Quijano) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:51:22 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50c963550908041351x220064e9mff1767b04e266580@mail.gmail.com> In The Lost Ring some players picked up a codex (a document) in a library. One of the players, explaining to the store owner the weirdness of the situation, proved her that he wasn't doing anything illegal by showing her the document, which was in esperanto. The store owner, out of the blue, told him that near the shop there is the local Esperanto Society. This wasn't scripted at all, but the players freaked out and started to investigate that Esperanto Society. We actually did included the society in the story somehow, but the best part was that we hid one of the rings (the lost ring!) inside the Esperanto Society! The players came up with a plan that they were a rock band and they wanted to make a song in Esperanto, so they contacted the society and asked for an esperanto lesson, and when we went there (I joined the players), we almost literally stole the ring You can see the video that we made with english subtitles here: http://dotsub.com/view/f0cc1f17-ac1b-43f7-b992-c777832f9e07 On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > We have a lot of amazing people who have done a lot of amazing things > here. I wish more of you were more forthright about telling us what > you're doing and what you're especially proud of. A surprisingly > modest crew, you are. > > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come > up with. ^_^ From brooke at giantmice.com Tue Aug 4 18:48:07 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:48:07 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4461867C-D6BF-4EA1-AEFF-0A013F5F939E@giantmice.com> There was a scene in Metacortechs that always comes to mind with these sorts of questions. We had these little cyberpunk kids who were beginning to discover that *something* was up with the internet (matrix themed). One of the character's story arcs sort of mirrored Ceasar's and, in fact, we were subtle enough to name him Caesar. At one point, we wanted to do a retelling of part of Shakespeare's Caesar into cyberpunk. Now, for some reason this task fell onto me. I do not fancy myself a writer, I can barely understand Shakespeare, and cyberpunk has never been a favorite genre of mine. Yet somehow, it turned out not bad. Some might even say it was quite good. Granted, it's not fantastic and I'm sure a more capable writer could have done taken it to that next step, but because it took me out of my element in so many ways, it always brings a smile to may face... in fact, I know parts of it by heart and have been known to quote the bit about him not knowing his Monet from his anime (anime...Manet... heh? that's funny, right? this is where it always breaks down for me. I get so tickled that I explain it and if you have to explain it...). Sigh. http://www.metaurchins.org/book/paintover_files/roman_files.htm On Aug 3, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come > up with. ^_^ From brooke at giantmice.com Tue Aug 4 18:18:22 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:18:22 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 3: Show and Tell In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There was a scene in Metacortechs that always comes to mind with these sorts of questions. We had these little cyberpunk kids who were beginning to discover that *something* was up with the internet (matrix themed). One of the character's story arcs sort of mirrored Ceasar's and, in fact, we were subtle enough to name him Caesar. At one point, we wanted to do a retelling of part of Shakespeare's Caesar into cyberpunk. Now, for some reason this task fell onto me. I do not fancy myself a writer, I can barely understand Shakespeare, and cyberpunk has never been a favorite genre of mine. Yet somehow, it turned out not bad. Some might even say it was quite good. Granted, it's not fantastic and I'm sure a more capable writer could have done taken it to that next step, but because it took me out of my element in so many ways, it always brings a smile to may face... in fact, I know parts of it by heart and have been known to quote the bit about him not knowing his Monet from his anime (anime...Manet... heh? that's funny, right? this is where it always breaks down for me. I get so tickled that I explain it and if you have to explain it...). Sigh. http://www.metaurchins.org/book/paintover_files/roman_files.htm On Aug 3, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > With that in mind, this week's topic is Show and Tell: In your body of > work, what are the couple of things you've done that you're the > absolute most proud of? I'm not talking an entire project, mind -- > just small, individual pieces of the larger whole. A video clip, a > puzzle design, a spectacular venue find for an event... what have you > got? I know it's a hard question, and could be akin to "which one was > your favorite chocolate chip in the cookie," but see what you can come > up with. ^_^ From markus.montola at uta.fi Wed Aug 5 08:11:08 2009 From: markus.montola at uta.fi (Markus Montola) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:11:08 +0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Anyone willing to report ARGfest? In-Reply-To: <50c963550908041351x220064e9mff1767b04e266580@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908031153q2d554306y28d1390759293588@mail.gmail.com> <50c963550908041351x220064e9mff1767b04e266580@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7976DC.708@uta.fi> Hi, Due to holidays -- July is the high season for that in Finland -- I'm a little late with this, but. Would anyone like to guest-blog a report from ARGfestcon for our Pervasive Games blog? (David Fono blogged Come Out and Play for us earlier -- http://pervasivegames.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/come-out-and-play-2009/ ) Best, - Markus Montola From sk8gundy at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:25:55 2009 From: sk8gundy at gmail.com (S Chen) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:25:55 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] GDC Meeting In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908031243j178e7aadpc9678b9ac8e0c45e@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60907310827g248b9eccre49a242b4bc8ff2f@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60907311029m2b402382w3c60c5ec92c71289@mail.gmail.com> <9978A76D-B4D5-44BB-9919-15AB58CAAD03@addlepated.net> <5c799fd60908031243j178e7aadpc9678b9ac8e0c45e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55165ca60908061125r1662c166vd580a362286b180f@mail.gmail.com> There's usually two sessions (or in some cases one) One is definitely more social - it's at the IGDA gathering place. The other would be a more formal RT or discussion placed in the program. Sande On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Actually -- it looks like I was wrong and the topic under discussion > is the SF GDC. (Though we do need to arrange for a social meetup at > the Austin GDC as well.) > > I'm honestly not sure what the SIG has done for gatherings in the > past. Did we sign up on the official sheet for a meeting in a IGDA > booth or conference room? Did we just have informal social gatherings > in a corner somewhere? If you've made it to a SIG gathering at any GDC > in the past, please advise! > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:33 PM, D. Cook wrote: > > I may likely be there, but I'm not actually an IGDA member. I'd be happy > to > > sit and lurk, though. > > > > -D. > > > > On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > > > >> Sorry, I do mean the Austin GDC, which is Sept. 15-18 and thus > >> logistically close enough to worry about SIG meetings and such. :) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Game Design Aspect of the Month: http://gamedesignaspect.blogspot.com Dame Dev: Women's Issues in the Game Industry http://damedev.blogspot.com @sandechen Co-Author, Serious Games: Games That Educate, Train, and Inform http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592006221/ref=nosim/sandechen From andrhia at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:48:00 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:48:00 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Message-ID: <5c799fd60908061148x35f14105q14adf85bc7beedd0@mail.gmail.com> Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such an event. To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple questions on this teeny-tiny survey? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d Thanks bunches! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:40:48 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:40:48 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Message-ID: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and make financing easier... Two cents... *hugs* to all missed you already :) -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Phillips Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such an event. To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple questions on this teeny-tiny survey? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d Thanks bunches! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From wendeth at wendydespain.com Thu Aug 6 16:52:44 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:52:44 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Hey Burcu, We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two different conferences. Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on Unfiction. We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a professional, business, my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into a conference like that. And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction community is. Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on this. Wendy Despain ARG SIG Leadership Council On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second > Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and > the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would > increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the > other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly > introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related > topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to > Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my > return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine > unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and > make financing easier... > > Two cents... > > *hugs* to all missed you already :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrea Phillips > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference > > Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming > up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. > Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need > your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such > an event. > > To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple > questions on this teeny-tiny survey? > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d > > Thanks bunches! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From tony at anthonyfsaad.com Thu Aug 6 17:12:55 2009 From: tony at anthonyfsaad.com (Anthony F. Saad) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:12:55 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: <301A1522-6D17-444A-BC6F-E528909E42A1@anthonyfsaad.com> Wendy I agree whole heartedly with your comments. Having been to one argfest as well I agree that that the community is focussed and has a great sense of family that is way and above what might be found in an 'industry conference'. An idea you might wish to consider is to take the SIG on the road to specific conferences for publishing, game Dev, television, etc. You know, bring the mountain to them rather than wait for them to turn up / catch up. -T Sent from my iPod so there maybe typos On 6-Aug-09, at 4:52 PM, "Wendy Despain" wrote: > Hey Burcu, > > We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from > everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts > ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. > > Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is > an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two > different conferences. > > Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really > their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online > relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only > once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. > > But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a > broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in > that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also > hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything > ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on > Unfiction. > > We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs > and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of > Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, > not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction > to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too > many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. > > Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very > different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm > hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a > professional, business, > my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. > > I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into > a conference like that. > > And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting > of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG > creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs > touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction > community is. > > Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to > hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from > quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the > way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope > laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on > this. > > Wendy Despain > ARG SIG Leadership Council > > > > > On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: >> Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second >> Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and >> the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would >> increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the >> other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly >> introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related >> topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to >> Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my >> return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine >> unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and >> make financing easier... >> >> Two cents... >> >> *hugs* to all missed you already :) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andrea Phillips >> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference >> >> Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming >> up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. >> Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need >> your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for >> such >> an event. >> >> To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple >> questions on this teeny-tiny survey? >> >> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d >> >> Thanks bunches! >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bclark at gmdstudios.com Thu Aug 6 17:20:54 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:20:54 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: <41C9E7DD8B4A408F9880500603C2A8C7@Tricorder> I'm really not feeling what the vision is for the conference. I can't imagine who'd go to it, or what we would get out of it. So what's the proactive vision of what you think this conference looks like, beyond the critique of what ARGfest is ... why would people go to it instead of DIY Days or Branded Entertainment Summit or SXSW or GDC or all of those other places that these people already go? And then ... isn't ARG-Sig a small enough ad hocracy that this seems like a huge undertaking to tackle with no infrastructure? Sorry to sound like Debbie Downer. From wendeth at wendydespain.com Thu Aug 6 17:39:58 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:39:58 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <41C9E7DD8B4A408F9880500603C2A8C7@Tricorder> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <41C9E7DD8B4A408F9880500603C2A8C7@Tricorder> Message-ID: <1854b64c9d59a9ceb0e21ab2466f4f22.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Well, we are in the early, early stages of figuring all of this out right now. When it comes time to really publicize the conference and get the message out to the world, we'll have it honed and polished to perfection. We're still building it right now, so hopefully it will make more sense as time goes by, and we hope you'll all help shape the direction of it. I certainly didn't intend anything I said to be a critique of what ARGfest is. I think ARGfest is great. I think SXSW and DIY Days and all the other conferences are great. And it can certainly be argued that who needs another conference to try to fit into the schedule? But I feel like there really is room for one more conference - one where we don't have to feel like we're just an add-on to a music festival, or trying to explain to videogame developers what an ARG is. I think ARGs and experience design and cross-media entertainment, and all these other argish things deserve to be given the legitimacy of their own conference, for developing and expanding the state of the art in person, not spread out across five semi-related conferences, or having developers (and semi-interested ad agencies) wholesale taking over ARGfest and overshadowing the community elements there. Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding what ARGfest wants to be. I'm totally open to being told this is a bad idea. But I think we can reach a wide audience this way. Aren't there sessions you'd like to attend (or give!) that don't really fit into any of these other conferences? That's what this is for. (imho) And as for infrastructure, its true that we sometimes have a hard time organizing ourselves in this SIG, but we've actually got a lot of administrative resources from the IGDA that we can draw on. There are several people there with a lot of experience with the logistics of putting on conferences, and they have said they're definitely willing to do that for us - what we need to do is come up with the plan. Get speakers lined up, etc. And I think we can do that. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com On Thu, August 6, 2009 2:20 pm, Brian Clark wrote: > > I'm really not feeling what the vision is for the conference. I can't > imagine who'd go to it, or what we would get out of it. > > So what's the proactive vision of what you think this conference looks > like, > beyond the critique of what ARGfest is ... why would people go to it > instead > of DIY Days or Branded Entertainment Summit or SXSW or GDC or all of > those > other places that these people already go? > > And then ... isn't ARG-Sig a small enough ad hocracy that this seems > like a > huge undertaking to tackle with no infrastructure? > > Sorry to sound like Debbie Downer. > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From brooke at giantmice.com Thu Aug 6 18:21:55 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:21:55 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <41C9E7DD8B4A408F9880500603C2A8C7@Tricorder> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <41C9E7DD8B4A408F9880500603C2A8C7@Tricorder> Message-ID: <4F9E9906-8FCC-4339-9DC5-1BF319DD6104@giantmice.com> There isn't, yet, any sort of declared vision for this conference. Looking at our "about" page (which I still struggle with...), our primary mission is outreach. Yet we've done very little of that outside of the White Paper (wouldn't it be great to present a new White Paper at the conference... any interest in helping me out with that?). This conference would allow us to do that. But, I don't know that any of us has a real desire to just talk to a bunch of people who only want to pick our brains - there's got to be some sort of give & take. "This SIG will also serve as an initial contact-point for the many organizations who have trouble knowing where to look but want to work with ARG developers both professional and hobbyist." So, we should reach out to those that would be looking for people who know and understand alternate reality gaming (and similar) - ad & media execs seem like an obvious choice, but there are others like the similarly minded, but not yet all that connected, indie film and game communities (though this gets into DIYDays and is probably why it comes to my mind right now). I see a day conference in NYC where there isn't a huge commitment being made to fly out just to something that you're kinda interested in learning a bit more about. Add on a pretty decent networking event and I think it could be a really interesting something or other. A second day could allow us to go into more in depth sorts of talks and maybe reverse the roles a little bit - pull in people from the publishing world or ad world and have them present on what we can gain from them and their knowledge, etc. Something like that, which would offer them the opportunity to present to us, would make the travel commitment easier. At least that's what I'm picturing in my mind :) On Aug 6, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Brian Clark wrote: > > I'm really not feeling what the vision is for the conference. I can't > imagine who'd go to it, or what we would get out of it. > > So what's the proactive vision of what you think this conference > looks like, > beyond the critique of what ARGfest is ... why would people go to it > instead > of DIY Days or Branded Entertainment Summit or SXSW or GDC or all of > those > other places that these people already go? > > And then ... isn't ARG-Sig a small enough ad hocracy that this seems > like a > huge undertaking to tackle with no infrastructure? > > Sorry to sound like Debbie Downer. > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 18:30:02 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:30:02 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Hey thanks for your response. If you guys thought about this and made some decisions, fair enough. Here's my input into what has been said here: 1) You're right, the unfiction community is a very closed "clique," and having been there this year, I see that this has also influenced the festival (which is created by unfiction). There are almost rules to what you should think... or how you should respond to panels/speakers. I almost had to stop myself from commenting once or twice. The clues to this are very subtle, mind you. 2) But this attitude is not fruitful for them or for ARGFest if they hope to get a larger pool of funding and increase participation. People were already talking about how to fund next year's event. Mike Monello gave them great ideas within the context of unfiction. 3) Since there is not alternative convention at this point, anyone who is remotely interested in ARGs will show up there, i.e. me and others who are not active in unfiction. Some of the panelist later told me "I didn't even think that our project was an ARG." And, to tell you the truth, neither did I. But it was great being exposed to them! And I hope unfiction people got a lot out of it too, or they thought about it and saw some alternatives. 4) Creating an alternative that sounds like a legitimate conference will steal all these people away from ARGFest, i.e. people who are broke or have limited funding (such as myself who is running on negative balances these months) will prefer to attend one of them. If they wanna hang out with friends they go to ARGFest or if they want a broader range of people including researchers/educators/industry people they'll go to ARG sig. But it will make it harder to cross-polinate. Where does this leave ARGFest? 1) Well, most people won't have money or desire to participate in both 2) The unfiction community will lose their chance of interacting with ARG people who are not entrenched with the ideas of unfiction forums. 3) I am almost certain the participation to ARGFest will decrease, funding opportunities will decrease for them. Who is Microsoft going to fund, a group of unfiction players or the ARG sig? 4) So in a way (and I am sure without meaning to), by presenting a more "serious" looking conference as an alternative, we are imposing a very elitist approach and being just as "dismissive" as the unfiction community who are being labeled as a closely knit, almost exclusive. And I know this statement is about to get me in a bag of trouble, but let's call a spade a spade. Let's put our hats in front of us and be honest with each other. If i were to be forced to make the "hard" choice between the community and research/industry/education, guess where my loyalties lie? Although I love hanging out with the community, my career depends on the research end of the spectrum. Let me tell you about one of the most rewarding moments of my research in Second Life... I presented my three-year research on griefers (who are basically the trouble makers of the virtual worlds who like to crash sims and plaster penises all over the place) twice in SLCC through the Education track to a group of educators, who, in all honesty (like "researchers"), can get a bit boring and uptight at times. And recognizing that a group of griefers were sitting among the educators listening silently why the hell their activities were so important to be published/researched, giving me subtle winks and hi-fives, and later inviting me to a Griefer Appreciation Gala in some obscure room on the 8th floor where there is free booze and food, and telling me even more stories of their misdeeds... now that was priceless... You separate the community from the research end, or make it harder for each side to participate, you lose that moment. It is like removing the icing from the cake for me. Sure, the carrot cake is most nutrious, but damn that icing... that makes it all the more worthwhile... Again, my point of view... b. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Wendy Despain wrote: > Hey Burcu, > > We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from > everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts > ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. > > Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is > an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two > different conferences. > > Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really > their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online > relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only > once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. > > But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a > broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in > that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also > hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything > ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on > Unfiction. > > We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs > and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of > Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, > not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction > to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too > many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. > > Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very > different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm > hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a > professional, business, > my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. > > I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into > a conference like that. > > And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting > of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG > creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs > touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction > community is. > > Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to > hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from > quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the > way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope > laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on > this. > > Wendy Despain > ARG SIG Leadership Council > > > > > On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second > > Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and > > the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would > > increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the > > other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly > > introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related > > topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to > > Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my > > return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine > > unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and > > make financing easier... > > > > Two cents... > > > > *hugs* to all missed you already :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrea Phillips > > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM > > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > > Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference > > > > Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming > > up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. > > Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need > > your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such > > an event. > > > > To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple > > questions on this teeny-tiny survey? > > > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d > > > > Thanks bunches! > > > > -- > > Andrea Phillips > > http://www.aaphillips.com > > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 19:38:49 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:38:49 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908061638k276515f7pa68922472cd626ff@mail.gmail.com> You're right, Burcu, that there is a risk of cannibalizing ARGfest. We're aware of that, and we actively want to avoid it. To that end, I spoke to several of the ARGfest organizers during the fest this year, and not one of them said, "You know, I'd rather you not do this." If I'd received that sort of response, then I would have had second thoughts, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. If we do get massive public outcry at the idea of a conference, then of course we'll reconsider the whole thing. I'd really love it if everyone else could weigh in on the matter. Think it's a great idea? A terrible one? Can't be bothered either way? Let us know. Planning a conference is an awful lot of time, energy and money to spend if it's widely considered to be a bad plan. I see ARGfest as being like PAX; it's by the fans and of the fans, and because that's your audience, there will always, always be companies with an interest in having a presence there. But I think we have room for a GDC for our community, too. They both serve a purpose. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Hey thanks for your response. If you guys thought about this and made some > decisions, fair enough. Here's my input into what has been said here: > > 1) You're right, the unfiction community is a very closed "clique," and > having been there this year, I see that this has also influenced the > festival (which is created by unfiction). There are almost rules to what you > should think... or how you should respond to panels/speakers. I almost had > to stop myself from commenting once or twice. The clues to this are very > subtle, mind you. > 2) But this attitude is not fruitful for them or for ARGFest if they hope to > get a larger pool of funding and increase participation. People were already > talking about how to fund next year's event. Mike Monello gave them great > ideas within the context of unfiction. > 3) Since there is not alternative convention at this point, anyone who is > remotely interested in ARGs will show up there, i.e. me and others who are > not active in unfiction. Some of the panelist later told me "I didn't even > think that our project was an ARG." And, to tell you the truth, neither did > I. But it was great being exposed to them! And I hope unfiction people got a > lot out of it too, or they thought about it and saw some alternatives. > 4) Creating an alternative that sounds like a legitimate conference will > steal all these people away from ARGFest, i.e. people who are broke or have > limited funding (such as myself who is running on negative balances these > months) will prefer to attend one of them. If they wanna hang out with > friends they go to ARGFest or if they want a broader range of people > including researchers/educators/industry people they'll go to ARG sig. But > it will make it harder to cross-polinate. > > Where does this leave ARGFest? > 1) Well, most people won't have money or desire to participate in both > 2) The unfiction community will lose their chance of interacting with ARG > people who are not entrenched with the ideas of unfiction forums. > 3) I am almost certain the participation to ARGFest will decrease, funding > opportunities will decrease for them. Who is Microsoft going to fund, a > group of unfiction players or the ARG sig? > 4) So in a way (and I am sure without meaning to), by presenting a more > "serious" looking conference as an alternative, we are imposing a very > elitist approach and being just as "dismissive" as the unfiction community > who are being labeled as a closely knit, almost exclusive. And I know this > statement is about to get me in a bag of trouble, but let's call a spade a > spade. Let's put our hats in front of us and be honest with each other. > > If i were to be forced to make the "hard" choice between the community and > research/industry/education, guess where my loyalties lie? Although I love > hanging out with the community, my career depends on the research end of the > spectrum. Let me tell you about one of the most rewarding moments of my > research in Second Life... I presented my three-year research on griefers > (who are basically the trouble makers of the virtual worlds who like to > crash sims and plaster penises all over the place) twice in SLCC through the > Education track to a group of educators, who, in all honesty (like > "researchers"), can get a bit boring and uptight at times. And recognizing > that a group of griefers were sitting among the educators listening silently > why the hell their activities were so important to be published/researched, > giving me subtle winks and hi-fives, and later inviting me to a Griefer > Appreciation Gala in some obscure room on the 8th floor where there is free > booze and food, and telling me even more stories of their misdeeds... now > that was priceless... You separate the community from the research end, or > make it harder for each side to participate, you lose that moment. It is > like removing the icing from the cake for me. Sure, the carrot cake is most > nutrious, but damn that icing... that makes it all the more worthwhile... > > Again, my point of view... > > b. > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Wendy Despain wrote: > >> Hey Burcu, >> >> We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from >> everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts >> ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. >> >> Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is >> an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two >> different conferences. >> >> Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really >> their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online >> relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only >> once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. >> >> But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a >> broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in >> that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also >> hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything >> ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on >> Unfiction. >> >> We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs >> and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of >> Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, >> not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction >> to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too >> many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. >> >> Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very >> different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm >> hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a >> professional, business, >> my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. >> >> I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into >> a conference like that. >> >> And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting >> of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG >> creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs >> touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction >> community is. >> >> Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to >> hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from >> quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the >> way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope >> laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on >> this. >> >> Wendy Despain >> ARG SIG Leadership Council >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: >> > ?Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second >> > Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and >> > the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would >> > increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the >> > other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly >> > introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related >> > topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to >> > Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my >> > return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine >> > unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and >> > make financing easier... >> > >> > Two cents... >> > >> > *hugs* to all missed you already :) >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Andrea Phillips >> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM >> > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> > Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference >> > >> > Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming >> > up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. >> > Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need >> > your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such >> > an event. >> > >> > To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple >> > questions on this teeny-tiny survey? >> > >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d >> > >> > Thanks bunches! >> > >> > -- >> > Andrea Phillips >> > http://www.aaphillips.com >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> > Words * Culture * Interaction >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> Wendy Despain >> quantumcontent.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > http://www.palefirer.com > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > Skype: PaleFireR > AIM: PaleFireR > > -- > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From brooke at giantmice.com Thu Aug 6 19:54:51 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:54:51 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and have somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and the ARG SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate a couple threads, that is all) I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one pull from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? is there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being labelled as closed and exclusive. Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said "hey! we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about me!" - and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - whoa. Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the guys who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about this, so let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was born. (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born out of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive and meeting new people!) It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing team this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do look beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're friendly folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get to know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to meet and get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and Jeromy Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda cool that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but the ARG Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest have continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown into collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months before ARGFest. There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if it comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. And, you might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. We haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and unique event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to see a lot more of it :) From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 19:56:14 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:56:14 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908061638k276515f7pa68922472cd626ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <5c799fd60908061638k276515f7pa68922472cd626ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Andrea, fair enough then. All our basis should be covered. But, one more thing to consider... If we are planning on attracting the "community" as well, can we come up with a more accessible conference title? ARG sig conference sounds too... well you know, obtuse. I mean, how many players would come to a conferences that bears that title? Not really sexy, if you know what i mean... On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > You're right, Burcu, that there is a risk of cannibalizing ARGfest. > We're aware of that, and we actively want to avoid it. To that end, I > spoke to several of the ARGfest organizers during the fest this year, > and not one of them said, "You know, I'd rather you not do this." If > I'd received that sort of response, then I would have had second > thoughts, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. > > If we do get massive public outcry at the idea of a conference, then > of course we'll reconsider the whole thing. I'd really love it if > everyone else could weigh in on the matter. Think it's a great idea? A > terrible one? Can't be bothered either way? Let us know. Planning a > conference is an awful lot of time, energy and money to spend if it's > widely considered to be a bad plan. > > I see ARGfest as being like PAX; it's by the fans and of the fans, and > because that's your audience, there will always, always be companies > with an interest in having a presence there. But I think we have room > for a GDC for our community, too. They both serve a purpose. > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > Hey thanks for your response. If you guys thought about this and made > some > > decisions, fair enough. Here's my input into what has been said here: > > > > 1) You're right, the unfiction community is a very closed "clique," and > > having been there this year, I see that this has also influenced the > > festival (which is created by unfiction). There are almost rules to what > you > > should think... or how you should respond to panels/speakers. I almost > had > > to stop myself from commenting once or twice. The clues to this are very > > subtle, mind you. > > 2) But this attitude is not fruitful for them or for ARGFest if they hope > to > > get a larger pool of funding and increase participation. People were > already > > talking about how to fund next year's event. Mike Monello gave them great > > ideas within the context of unfiction. > > 3) Since there is not alternative convention at this point, anyone who is > > remotely interested in ARGs will show up there, i.e. me and others who > are > > not active in unfiction. Some of the panelist later told me "I didn't > even > > think that our project was an ARG." And, to tell you the truth, neither > did > > I. But it was great being exposed to them! And I hope unfiction people > got a > > lot out of it too, or they thought about it and saw some alternatives. > > 4) Creating an alternative that sounds like a legitimate conference will > > steal all these people away from ARGFest, i.e. people who are broke or > have > > limited funding (such as myself who is running on negative balances these > > months) will prefer to attend one of them. If they wanna hang out with > > friends they go to ARGFest or if they want a broader range of people > > including researchers/educators/industry people they'll go to ARG sig. > But > > it will make it harder to cross-polinate. > > > > Where does this leave ARGFest? > > 1) Well, most people won't have money or desire to participate in both > > 2) The unfiction community will lose their chance of interacting with ARG > > people who are not entrenched with the ideas of unfiction forums. > > 3) I am almost certain the participation to ARGFest will decrease, > funding > > opportunities will decrease for them. Who is Microsoft going to fund, a > > group of unfiction players or the ARG sig? > > 4) So in a way (and I am sure without meaning to), by presenting a more > > "serious" looking conference as an alternative, we are imposing a very > > elitist approach and being just as "dismissive" as the unfiction > community > > who are being labeled as a closely knit, almost exclusive. And I know > this > > statement is about to get me in a bag of trouble, but let's call a spade > a > > spade. Let's put our hats in front of us and be honest with each other. > > > > If i were to be forced to make the "hard" choice between the community > and > > research/industry/education, guess where my loyalties lie? Although I > love > > hanging out with the community, my career depends on the research end of > the > > spectrum. Let me tell you about one of the most rewarding moments of my > > research in Second Life... I presented my three-year research on griefers > > (who are basically the trouble makers of the virtual worlds who like to > > crash sims and plaster penises all over the place) twice in SLCC through > the > > Education track to a group of educators, who, in all honesty (like > > "researchers"), can get a bit boring and uptight at times. And > recognizing > > that a group of griefers were sitting among the educators listening > silently > > why the hell their activities were so important to be > published/researched, > > giving me subtle winks and hi-fives, and later inviting me to a Griefer > > Appreciation Gala in some obscure room on the 8th floor where there is > free > > booze and food, and telling me even more stories of their misdeeds... now > > that was priceless... You separate the community from the research end, > or > > make it harder for each side to participate, you lose that moment. It is > > like removing the icing from the cake for me. Sure, the carrot cake is > most > > nutrious, but damn that icing... that makes it all the more worthwhile... > > > > Again, my point of view... > > > > b. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Wendy Despain >wrote: > > > >> Hey Burcu, > >> > >> We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from > >> everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts > >> ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. > >> > >> Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is > >> an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two > >> different conferences. > >> > >> Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really > >> their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online > >> relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only > >> once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. > >> > >> But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a > >> broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in > >> that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also > >> hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything > >> ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on > >> Unfiction. > >> > >> We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs > >> and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of > >> Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, > >> not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction > >> to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too > >> many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. > >> > >> Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very > >> different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm > >> hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a > >> professional, business, > >> my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. > >> > >> I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into > >> a conference like that. > >> > >> And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting > >> of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG > >> creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs > >> touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction > >> community is. > >> > >> Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to > >> hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from > >> quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the > >> way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope > >> laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on > >> this. > >> > >> Wendy Despain > >> ARG SIG Leadership Council > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > >> > Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second > >> > Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and > >> > the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would > >> > increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the > >> > other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly > >> > introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related > >> > topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to > >> > Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my > >> > return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine > >> > unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and > >> > make financing easier... > >> > > >> > Two cents... > >> > > >> > *hugs* to all missed you already :) > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Andrea Phillips > >> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM > >> > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > >> > Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference > >> > > >> > Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming > >> > up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. > >> > Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need > >> > your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such > >> > an event. > >> > > >> > To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple > >> > questions on this teeny-tiny survey? > >> > > >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d > >> > > >> > Thanks bunches! > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Andrea Phillips > >> > http://www.aaphillips.com > >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > >> > Words * Culture * Interaction > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > >> > >> > >> Wendy Despain > >> quantumcontent.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks, > > > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > > > http://www.palefirer.com > > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > > Skype: PaleFireR > > AIM: PaleFireR > > > > -- > > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 20:06:43 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:06:43 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <5c799fd60908061638k276515f7pa68922472cd626ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908061706t10cc7845x43325f62fd4d8dba@mail.gmail.com> Hah! Consider it a working title. We'd definitely want to put something snappier on the invitations. ^_^ On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Andrea, fair enough then. All our basis should be covered. But, one more > thing to consider... If we are planning on attracting the "community" as > well, can we come up with a more accessible conference title? ARG sig > conference sounds too... well you know, obtuse. I mean, how many players > would come to a conferences that bears that title? Not really sexy, if you > know what i mean... > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Andrea Phillips > wrote: > >> You're right, Burcu, that there is a risk of cannibalizing ARGfest. >> We're aware of that, and we actively want to avoid it. To that end, I >> spoke to several of the ARGfest organizers during the fest this year, >> and not one of them said, "You know, I'd rather you not do this." If >> I'd received that sort of response, then I would have had second >> thoughts, and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. >> >> If we do get massive public outcry at the idea of a conference, then >> of course we'll reconsider the whole thing. I'd really love it if >> everyone else could weigh in on the matter. Think it's a great idea? A >> terrible one? Can't be bothered either way? Let us know. Planning a >> conference is an awful lot of time, energy and money to spend if it's >> widely considered to be a bad plan. >> >> I see ARGfest as being like PAX; it's by the fans and of the fans, and >> because that's your audience, there will always, always be companies >> with an interest in having a presence there. But I think we have room >> for a GDC for our community, too. They both serve a purpose. >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: >> > Hey thanks for your response. If you guys thought about this and made >> some >> > decisions, fair enough. Here's my input into what has been said here: >> > >> > 1) You're right, the unfiction community is a very closed "clique," and >> > having been there this year, I see that this has also influenced the >> > festival (which is created by unfiction). There are almost rules to what >> you >> > should think... or how you should respond to panels/speakers. I almost >> had >> > to stop myself from commenting once or twice. The clues to this are very >> > subtle, mind you. >> > 2) But this attitude is not fruitful for them or for ARGFest if they hope >> to >> > get a larger pool of funding and increase participation. People were >> already >> > talking about how to fund next year's event. Mike Monello gave them great >> > ideas within the context of unfiction. >> > 3) Since there is not alternative convention at this point, anyone who is >> > remotely interested in ARGs will show up there, i.e. me and others who >> are >> > not active in unfiction. Some of the panelist later told me "I didn't >> even >> > think that our project was an ARG." And, to tell you the truth, neither >> did >> > I. But it was great being exposed to them! And I hope unfiction people >> got a >> > lot out of it too, or they thought about it and saw some alternatives. >> > 4) Creating an alternative that sounds like a legitimate conference will >> > steal all these people away from ARGFest, i.e. people who are broke or >> have >> > limited funding (such as myself who is running on negative balances these >> > months) will prefer to attend one of them. If they wanna hang out with >> > friends they go to ARGFest or if they want a broader range of people >> > including researchers/educators/industry people they'll go to ARG sig. >> But >> > it will make it harder to cross-polinate. >> > >> > Where does this leave ARGFest? >> > 1) Well, most people won't have money or desire to participate in both >> > 2) The unfiction community will lose their chance of interacting with ARG >> > people who are not entrenched with the ideas of unfiction forums. >> > 3) I am almost certain the participation to ARGFest will decrease, >> funding >> > opportunities will decrease for them. Who is Microsoft going to fund, a >> > group of unfiction players or the ARG sig? >> > 4) So in a way (and I am sure without meaning to), by presenting a more >> > "serious" looking conference as an alternative, we are imposing a very >> > elitist approach and being just as "dismissive" as the unfiction >> community >> > who are being labeled as a closely knit, almost exclusive. And I know >> this >> > statement is about to get me in a bag of trouble, but let's call a spade >> a >> > spade. Let's put our hats in front of us and be honest with each other. >> > >> > If i were to be forced to make the "hard" choice between the community >> and >> > research/industry/education, guess where my loyalties lie? Although I >> love >> > hanging out with the community, my career depends on the research end of >> the >> > spectrum. Let me tell you about one of the most rewarding moments of my >> > research in Second Life... I presented my three-year research on griefers >> > (who are basically the trouble makers of the virtual worlds who like to >> > crash sims and plaster penises all over the place) twice in SLCC through >> the >> > Education track to a group of educators, who, in all honesty (like >> > "researchers"), can get a bit boring and uptight at times. And >> recognizing >> > that a group of griefers were sitting among the educators listening >> silently >> > why the hell their activities were so important to be >> published/researched, >> > giving me subtle winks and hi-fives, and later inviting me to a Griefer >> > Appreciation Gala in some obscure room on the 8th floor where there is >> free >> > booze and food, and telling me even more stories of their misdeeds... now >> > that was priceless... You separate the community from the research end, >> or >> > make it harder for each side to participate, you lose that moment. It is >> > like removing the icing from the cake for me. Sure, the carrot cake is >> most >> > nutrious, but damn that icing... that makes it all the more worthwhile... >> > >> > Again, my point of view... >> > >> > b. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Wendy Despain > >wrote: >> > >> >> Hey Burcu, >> >> >> >> We're definitely excited about this idea and hoping for input from >> >> everybody. We spent a lot of time thinking about how this idea impacts >> >> ARGfest, and whether we should try to combine, or not. >> >> >> >> Our conclusion (and one of the people on the SIG leadership council is >> >> an ARGfest organizer as well) was that these really should remain two >> >> different conferences. >> >> >> >> Unfiction is really a tight-knit community, and ARGfest is really >> >> their opportunity to get together in real life and cement those online >> >> relationships and celebrate ARGs. I've been to ARGfest (sadly, only >> >> once) and it's a great conference, very focused and unique. >> >> >> >> But this conference run by the ARG SIG is really reaching for a >> >> broader audience. Everyone from Unfiction is certainly included in >> >> that audience, and we hope they'll attend, for sure. But we're also >> >> hoping to include everyone who is vaguely interested in anything >> >> ARG-like - not just people who have been building relationships on >> >> Unfiction. >> >> >> >> We're hoping to make it a meeting between the creative side of ARGs >> >> and the business side. While this may be fascinating to a lot of >> >> Unfiction members - others at Unfiction prefer to remain as players, >> >> not peeking behind the curtain so much. And we want to allow Unfiction >> >> to go on celebrating and growing ARGfest without trying to get too >> >> many cooks in the kitchen and diluting their focus. >> >> >> >> Does that make sense? I really think we're talking about two very >> >> different events. ARGfest has a great homey, community vibe. I'm >> >> hoping our SIG conference (whatever it's called) has more of a >> >> professional, business, >> >> my-employer-paid-for-this-trip-so-it-better-be-valuable vibe. >> >> >> >> I think ARGfest would lose something if we tried to shoe-horn it into >> >> a conference like that. >> >> >> >> And I think our large ARG-related community could really use a meeting >> >> of the minds between television producers, book publishers, ARG >> >> creators, advertising studios, etc. All the people and businesses ARGs >> >> touch, but who may not be as invested in ARGs as the Unfiction >> >> community is. >> >> >> >> Does that make sense? I hope so! Like I said, we definitely want to >> >> hear everyone's thoughts on this, but we've already looked at it from >> >> quite a few angles, and we've come to the conclusion that this is the >> >> way to go. If we're wrong, we definitely want to know! But I hope >> >> laying out our reasoning helps to explain where we're coming from on >> >> this. >> >> >> >> Wendy Despain >> >> ARG SIG Leadership Council >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, August 6, 2009 12:40 pm, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: >> >> > ?Andrea, what a great idea! From my extensive experience in Second >> >> > Life Community Conventions, I recommend that we combine ARGFest and >> >> > the ARG sig conference under one roof so the participation would >> >> > increase on both events. Otherwise people would choose one over the >> >> > other and neither would be too well-atended. It would needlessly >> >> > introduce a separation between acadeic topics and community related >> >> > topics and weaken both events. Right now I am in ohio going back to >> >> > Indiana, but I can write a more extensive email on this upon my >> >> > return tonight. We don't want to weaken ARGFest and undermine >> >> > unfiction. Also this joint venture would bring in more investors and >> >> > make financing easier... >> >> > >> >> > Two cents... >> >> > >> >> > *hugs* to all missed you already :) >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Andrea Phillips >> >> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:48 PM >> >> > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> >> > Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference >> >> > >> >> > Behind the scenes, your SIG leadership has been hard at work scheming >> >> > up new schemes and plotting new plots for the benefit of all ARGkind. >> >> > Our newest brainwave is this: Let's hold a conference! But we need >> >> > your help in establishing what would be a good time and place for such >> >> > an event. >> >> > >> >> > To that end, could you please spend one minute answering two simple >> >> > questions on this teeny-tiny survey? >> >> > >> >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YXlKrEov0jt_2bHyY8ZVpuCg_3d_3d >> >> > >> >> > Thanks bunches! >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Andrea Phillips >> >> > http://www.aaphillips.com >> >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> >> > Words * Culture * Interaction >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Wendy Despain >> >> quantumcontent.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. >> > >> > http://www.palefirer.com >> > http://palefirer.com/blog/ >> > Skype: PaleFireR >> > AIM: PaleFireR >> > >> > -- >> > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > http://www.palefirer.com > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > Skype: PaleFireR > AIM: PaleFireR > > -- > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 20:06:46 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:06:46 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was referring to the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even Wendy kinda mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I heard this remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, you're right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland this year. I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would erode this just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain kind of a reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions I had as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not accepable in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize a group that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't realize that we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. b. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson wrote: > I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and have > somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and the ARG > SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate a > couple threads, that is all) > > I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one pull > from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? is > there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player > enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... > > I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being labelled > as closed and exclusive. > > Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said "hey! > we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about me!" - > and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months > later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - whoa. > Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the guys > who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about this, so > let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was born. > (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born out > of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive and > meeting new people!) > > It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing team > this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first > thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do look > beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're friendly > folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get to > know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to meet and > get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and Jeromy > Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on > unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda cool > that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but the ARG > Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest have > continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown into > collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of > these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were > fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months before > ARGFest. > > There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I > think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if it > comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. And, you > might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. We > haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer > team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the > attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. > > I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and > designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to > describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and unique > event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. > > Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I > disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to see a > lot more of it :) > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From brooke at giantmice.com Thu Aug 6 20:41:00 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:41:00 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> Oh, yeah, I got what you were saying and I do share your worry about what a second conference could do to ARGFest. The strange mix of an audience that it attracts is part of it's charm, for m. It's an environment that I'm very keen to nurture. Which is why I'm so sensitive to the "closed" and "exclusive" talk - but also why l really appreciate the feedback :) I think that's why I lean towards the ARG SIG conference being about reaching out to a more professional audience. Not that I'd want it to be stodgy or anything, but it seems to fit the "mission" of the SIG while also making it more distinct from ARGFest. But that does raise the concern over what it would do to the professional & acadmic sorts that would go to ARGFest but can't quite justify two ARG-centric conferences. On Aug 6, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was > referring to > the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even > Wendy kinda > mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I > heard this > remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, > you're > right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland > this year. > I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would > erode this > just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? > > Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain > kind of a > reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions > I had > as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have > perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have > certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not > accepable > in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... > > So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize > a group > that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't > realize that > we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. > > b. > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson > wrote: > >> I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet >> and have >> somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest >> and the ARG >> SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help >> moderate a >> couple threads, that is all) >> >> I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would >> one pull >> from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for >> two? is >> there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player >> enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... >> >> I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being >> labelled >> as closed and exclusive. >> >> Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said >> "hey! >> we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what >> about me!" - >> and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple >> months >> later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up >> - whoa. >> Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet >> the guys >> who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about >> this, so >> let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference >> was born. >> (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was >> born out >> of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being >> inclusive and >> meeting new people!) >> >> It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the >> organizing team >> this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our >> first >> thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we >> do look >> beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're >> friendly >> folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to >> get to >> know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to >> meet and >> get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and >> Jeromy >> Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if >> they're on >> unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's >> kinda cool >> that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, >> but the ARG >> Community is so much more than that and relationships made at >> ARGFest have >> continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown >> into >> collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a >> lot of >> these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people >> were >> fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months >> before >> ARGFest. >> >> There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, >> but I >> think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter >> if it >> comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. >> And, you >> might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really >> is. We >> haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted >> volunteer >> team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the >> attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF >> community. >> >> I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and >> designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to >> describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great >> and unique >> event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. >> >> Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I >> disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like >> to see a >> lot more of it :) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > > http://www.palefirer.com > http://palefirer.com/blog/ > Skype: PaleFireR > AIM: PaleFireR > > -- > "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From varineq at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 21:34:37 2009 From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:34:37 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> Message-ID: <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> My first thoughts were - Oh my god, no! What will it do to ARGfest? Surely, all of the developers will stop coming! Then where will the panels be? Then players who want to meet developers will have to choose between the two and will surely go to ARG-SIG. Then ARGfest will slowly die... nooooooooo! Then I got over it. I think ARGfest is still in its awkward preteen years. We want more panels, but can't add them without cutting into social time. I'd love to have workshops and more casual discussions (the best discussions I heard all weekend were when 15 or so people were sitting in the hospitality room on Sunday night), but if we add them we're again cutting into social time. Many of the players can't attend a conference that stretches into the week, so we can't really add more days of panels. So what does ARGfest want to be when it grows up? A serious conference or a social event (or can it be both as it grows)? Also, does it want to be an event for both players and developers? The one thing I have to ask is why not just have the conferences in the same place and avoid separating the audience? You could have the ARG-SIG-DEV-CON (ha! that's a horrible name) during the week and end it with ARGfest on the weekend. Plenty of professional conferences are during the week, so I would think most developers wouldn't have a problem attending. Then they would have the option for staying an extra day or two to hang out socially with the players (or attend any player-focused panels). Players who really want to attend the professional portion of the conference could arrive a day or two early. Michelle On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Brooke Thompson wrote: > Oh, yeah, I got what you were saying and I do share your worry about what a > second conference could do to ARGFest. The strange mix of an audience that > it attracts is part of it's charm, for m. It's an environment that I'm very > keen to nurture. Which is why I'm so sensitive to the "closed" and > "exclusive" talk - but also why l really appreciate the feedback :) > > I think that's why I lean towards the ARG SIG conference being about > reaching out to a more professional audience. Not that I'd want it to be > stodgy or anything, but it seems to fit the "mission" of the SIG while also > making it more distinct from ARGFest. But that does raise the concern over > what it would do to the professional & acadmic sorts that would go to > ARGFest but can't quite justify two ARG-centric conferences. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was referring to >> the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even Wendy >> kinda >> mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I heard >> this >> remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, >> you're >> right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland this >> year. >> I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would erode >> this >> just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? >> >> Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain kind of a >> reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions I had >> as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have >> perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have >> certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not >> accepable >> in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... >> >> So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize a >> group >> that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't realize >> that >> we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. >> >> b. >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson > >wrote: >> >> I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and >>> have >>> somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and the >>> ARG >>> SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate a >>> couple threads, that is all) >>> >>> I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one >>> pull >>> from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? is >>> there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player >>> enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... >>> >>> I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being labelled >>> as closed and exclusive. >>> >>> Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said "hey! >>> we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about >>> me!" - >>> and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months >>> later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - >>> whoa. >>> Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the guys >>> who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about this, >>> so >>> let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was >>> born. >>> (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born >>> out >>> of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive >>> and >>> meeting new people!) >>> >>> It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing >>> team >>> this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first >>> thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do >>> look >>> beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're >>> friendly >>> folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get >>> to >>> know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to meet >>> and >>> get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and Jeromy >>> Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on >>> unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda cool >>> that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but the >>> ARG >>> Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest >>> have >>> continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown into >>> collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of >>> these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were >>> fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months before >>> ARGFest. >>> >>> There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I >>> think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if it >>> comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. And, >>> you >>> might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. We >>> haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer >>> team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the >>> attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. >>> >>> I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and >>> designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to >>> describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and >>> unique >>> event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. >>> >>> Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I >>> disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to see >>> a >>> lot more of it :) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. >> >> http://www.palefirer.com >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ >> Skype: PaleFireR >> AIM: PaleFireR >> >> -- >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 22:39:12 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:39:12 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able to add more panels without cutting into the social time. If there is any group of people who like there social time and like to throw extravagant parties, it is the Second Life community. These people like to party and socialize till death. I mean we all got back from ARGFest about several weeks ago, and I bet none of our lives have been disrupted after that. When I go to SLCC, I literally don't sleep for three days lest I miss something, panel or otherwise. So when I get back, I need to recover for a week, but I made so many new connections and established my old connections. When I first started going to SLCC, I went there to establish connections so I can figure out who to contact for interviews with the griefer community. This was 2005, SL community was relatively small, the convention in SF was very small. There were two track of panels that lasted half a day, I think. We had about 100 people in the educator's list that year. In three years, the population in the educator's list exploded to over a million. Researcher's list was added. Other tracks were added, such as community track and business track. But still to this day, the educator's track is by far the strongest part of SLCC. When I came to Portland I saw a convention similar to 2005 SLCC. Trust me, this is not preteen stage, we need to give it a big push. With proper funding and strategy, this community will explode, hell it is already exploding. Back then, virtual worlds was the big thing, and it got bigger when it was appropriated for educational, business, and entertainment purposes. Now ARGs are in that same position. That is why ARGFest should not limit itself with the unfiction community and rather expand. Unless it expands to areas of research, businesss, education, entertainment, the festival will seriously run the risk of dimishing due to lack of funding and such. I understand it first started because a group of unfiction people wanted to meet in RL and that is fine for then. But now it needs to expand. Community is great, activities are great, but they need to be somehow rendered legitimate. For example, I gave two talks in SLCC and I can put that in my CV, others get grants and funding for their research and projects in SL. They gives everything in SL some kind of a legitimacy. That gives me funding, that gets me hired, so I have a vested interest in following everyting in SL and keeping my communication alive. 2/3 of my connections on Twitter/FAcebook and other social networks is from SL. ARGFest needs to step up into that position. Trust me, social time won't go away when you add more panels. The participants may lose sleep for a night or two not to miss anything. But the festival will gain legitimacy and people will have reason to participate in it. Which is not that bad if you ask me... But of course, ARG sig conference can and will step into that position too. The question is, will ARGFest become a part of it. It should because it is one of the better solidified ARG communities if you ask me. There's also, what, Anchor Cove? We all need these under one roof. We need something that would give everyone a reason to come. Noone has the time or the money to follow everything ARG. Why force them to make a decision like this? We need to have a united thing. The segmented communities can happen in their own sites, such as unfiction, anchor cove, etc... But we need to celebrate everything ARG together. That's why I like the title ARGFest. While we are going there to celebrate everything ARG, we should be able to come out of there with useful ideas, theory, reseach, case studies, connections, etc... Let's keep the big picture in mind here, folks :) Yours trully, The renegade :P On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > My first thoughts were - Oh my god, no! What will it do to ARGfest? > Surely, all of the developers will stop coming! Then where will the > panels > be? Then players who want to meet developers will have to choose between > the two and will surely go to ARG-SIG. Then ARGfest will slowly die... > nooooooooo! > Then I got over it. > > I think ARGfest is still in its awkward preteen years. We want more > panels, > but can't add them without cutting into social time. I'd love to have > workshops and more casual discussions (the best discussions I heard all > weekend were when 15 or so people were sitting in the hospitality room on > Sunday night), but if we add them we're again cutting into social time. > Many of the players can't attend a conference that stretches into the > week, > so we can't really add more days of panels. So what does ARGfest want to > be > when it grows up? A serious conference or a social event (or can it be > both > as it grows)? Also, does it want to be an event for both players and > developers? > > The one thing I have to ask is why not just have the conferences in the > same > place and avoid separating the audience? You could have the > ARG-SIG-DEV-CON > (ha! that's a horrible name) during the week and end it with ARGfest on the > weekend. Plenty of professional conferences are during the week, so I > would > think most developers wouldn't have a problem attending. Then they would > have the option for staying an extra day or two to hang out socially with > the players (or attend any player-focused panels). Players who really want > to attend the professional portion of the conference could arrive a day or > two early. > > Michelle > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Brooke Thompson >wrote: > > > Oh, yeah, I got what you were saying and I do share your worry about what > a > > second conference could do to ARGFest. The strange mix of an audience > that > > it attracts is part of it's charm, for m. It's an environment that I'm > very > > keen to nurture. Which is why I'm so sensitive to the "closed" and > > "exclusive" talk - but also why l really appreciate the feedback :) > > > > I think that's why I lean towards the ARG SIG conference being about > > reaching out to a more professional audience. Not that I'd want it to be > > stodgy or anything, but it seems to fit the "mission" of the SIG while > also > > making it more distinct from ARGFest. But that does raise the concern > over > > what it would do to the professional & acadmic sorts that would go to > > ARGFest but can't quite justify two ARG-centric conferences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > > > Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was referring > to > >> the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even Wendy > >> kinda > >> mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I heard > >> this > >> remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, > >> you're > >> right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland this > >> year. > >> I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would erode > >> this > >> just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? > >> > >> Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain kind of > a > >> reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions I > had > >> as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have > >> perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have > >> certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not > >> accepable > >> in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... > >> > >> So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize a > >> group > >> that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't realize > >> that > >> we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. > >> > >> b. > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson >> >wrote: > >> > >> I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and > >>> have > >>> somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and > the > >>> ARG > >>> SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate > a > >>> couple threads, that is all) > >>> > >>> I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one > >>> pull > >>> from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? > is > >>> there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player > >>> enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... > >>> > >>> I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being > labelled > >>> as closed and exclusive. > >>> > >>> Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said > "hey! > >>> we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about > >>> me!" - > >>> and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months > >>> later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - > >>> whoa. > >>> Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the > guys > >>> who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about > this, > >>> so > >>> let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was > >>> born. > >>> (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born > >>> out > >>> of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive > >>> and > >>> meeting new people!) > >>> > >>> It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing > >>> team > >>> this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first > >>> thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do > >>> look > >>> beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're > >>> friendly > >>> folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get > >>> to > >>> know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to > meet > >>> and > >>> get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and > Jeromy > >>> Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on > >>> unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda > cool > >>> that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but > the > >>> ARG > >>> Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest > >>> have > >>> continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown > into > >>> collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of > >>> these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were > >>> fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months > before > >>> ARGFest. > >>> > >>> There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I > >>> think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if > it > >>> comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. > And, > >>> you > >>> might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. > We > >>> haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer > >>> team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the > >>> attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. > >>> > >>> I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and > >>> designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to > >>> describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and > >>> unique > >>> event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. > >>> > >>> Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I > >>> disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to > see > >>> a > >>> lot more of it :) > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > >> > >> http://www.palefirer.com > >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ > >> Skype: PaleFireR > >> AIM: PaleFireR > >> > >> -- > >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From varineq at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 23:06:48 2009 From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:06:48 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45cb08290908062006k2655ea72k8e46fb5236a5e71d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able > to add more panels without cutting into the social time. My perception comes from what the ARGfest coordinators have said. :) When I asked why the panels had to start so darn early on Saturday morning, they said it was because of the time crunch. If panels start later in the morning, they run later and then we don't have enough time for both the FestQuest and the dinner/keynote Saturday night. I assume it would be the same situation if more panels were simply added. When I suggested they add a second day (or half day) of panels, it seemed like it wasn't a possibility without more funding. An extra day of panels means an extra day of conference space rental. So, to be more specific, with the current amount of funding, it's not possible to add more panels without cutting into the social time. Or so I've heard. :) Michelle From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 23:10:54 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:10:54 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <45cb08290908062006k2655ea72k8e46fb5236a5e71d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com> <68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> <1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com> <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> <45cb08290908062006k2655ea72k8e46fb5236a5e71d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908062010u74fc29c6j5fd1512fe5315a78@mail.gmail.com> Not to mention at least one or two of us are old and enjoy sleeping every now and again. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > >> Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able >> to add more panels without cutting into the social time. > > > My perception comes from what the ARGfest coordinators have said. ?:) ?When > I asked why the panels had to start so darn early on Saturday morning, they > said it was because of the time crunch. ?If panels start later in the > morning, they run later and then we don't have enough time for both the > FestQuest and the dinner/keynote Saturday night. ?I assume it would be the > same situation if more panels were simply added. ?When I suggested they add > a second day (or half day) of panels, it seemed like it wasn't a possibility > without more funding. ?An extra day of panels means an extra day of > conference space rental. ? So, to be more specific, with the current amount > of funding, it's not possible to add more panels without cutting into the > social time. > > Or so I've heard. ?:) > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From scpeters at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 23:19:37 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:19:37 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908062010u74fc29c6j5fd1512fe5315a78@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a7b31aa.25578c0a.1bf7.ffffb994@mx.google.com><68052684773f4b9677838d251db0660a.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com><1D4BFD3E-F98D-4CB6-8433-13311D4D16EA@giantmice.com><45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com><45cb08290908062006k2655ea72k8e46fb5236a5e71d@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60908062010u74fc29c6j5fd1512fe5315a78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sleep becomes a lot more valuable after you have kids, that's all I'm sayin'.... -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:11 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Not to mention at least one or two of us are old and enjoy sleeping every now and again. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > >> Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able >> to add more panels without cutting into the social time. > > > My perception comes from what the ARGfest coordinators have said. ?:) ?When > I asked why the panels had to start so darn early on Saturday morning, they > said it was because of the time crunch. ?If panels start later in the > morning, they run later and then we don't have enough time for both the > FestQuest and the dinner/keynote Saturday night. ?I assume it would be the > same situation if more panels were simply added. ?When I suggested they add > a second day (or half day) of panels, it seemed like it wasn't a possibility > without more funding. ?An extra day of panels means an extra day of > conference space rental. ? So, to be more specific, with the current amount > of funding, it's not possible to add more panels without cutting into the > social time. > > Or so I've heard. ?:) > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Thu Aug 6 23:07:31 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:07:31 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <45cb08290908061834h15c625acq2a4e8514d50c540a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's hard to say whether an additional conference would hold value without understanding exactly what the focus would be. Would this be for marketers, and thus cover the value of ARG's as marketing properties, presentations on the branding value, the kinds of engagements possible, etc. and so on with all the things that marketers want to hear? Would this be for game developers and cover more the theory, design, economics, and possible business models? I think it would have to be deeply focused on one thing, for one audience, or else you won't get either audience to spend the time to go. Conferences like SXSW, as big as they are, don't even attract the real heavy hitters of the marketing/advertising world and I suspect the heavy hitters in game development are probably not there either, and that is a huge conference. I would suggest a few different options that seem viable from my POV: 1. Change the name of ARGFest to open it up a little bit and give it separate tracts. You could have an Marketing/advertising tract, a developers tract, and a community/player tract. Hold it in one day, but have three smaller rooms and run the tracts against each other. People could jump around or stick to one tract, but the social events and keynote could all be combined so you get a nice mix. This way you could concentrate the efforts of putting on an event but still make it valuable to multiple audiences. After a few years, based on attendance, you could split off a tract into a second conference. 2. Partner with an organization that puts these conferences on and offer up panels/presentations sponsored by the ARG-SIG. I agree with Anthony that it's better to go to them than try and get them to come to us. 3. If outreach is the goal, then I think a professionally focused version or ARGN might be the most effective to start. Something that has in-depth interviews about the making of them, articles that dive in deep on various aspects, etc. Most of what is written about ARGs is either wrong or too surface or complete bullshit, so why not become the source for real information. This could be a good way to start and then once there's been some attention to the work at the site a conference can emerge from it. I just want to say that I think the community based organization of ARG-Fest is essential and vital. I really do see it in a similar area as independent cinema in the early 1980's, when fans who lived outside NY and LA began to form "Film Societies" and start film series at their local cinemas. Some of these organizations ended up buying cinemas and continue to run art house theaters. Others started four-walling screens at regular theaters, eventually proving the market for the films. The result? Chains like AMC began national programs like "Gourmet Cinema" to cater to these groups, eventually just adding independent and foreign films to the mix of bookings. Other Film Societies started regional film festivals, some of which went national and some that stay regional, but all a part of the vital "film fest circuit" that supports both young and established filmmakers, brings their work all over the world, and draws attention to new talent. Many major filmmakers got their start this way. Decades later, many of these organizations, cinemas, and festivals continue to thrive. I think the future of ARGs rests in the passionate community I saw in evidence at ARGFest. Best, Mike From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Thu Aug 6 23:10:49 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:10:49 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well there ya go. The idea of tracts crosses streams. I agree that adding tracts to ARGFest is the way to do it, and will expand the community. And of course an education tract, which I didn't mention! -Mike On 8/6/09 11:39 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" wrote: Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able to add more panels without cutting into the social time. If there is any group of people who like there social time and like to throw extravagant parties, it is the Second Life community. These people like to party and socialize till death. I mean we all got back from ARGFest about several weeks ago, and I bet none of our lives have been disrupted after that. When I go to SLCC, I literally don't sleep for three days lest I miss something, panel or otherwise. So when I get back, I need to recover for a week, but I made so many new connections and established my old connections. When I first started going to SLCC, I went there to establish connections so I can figure out who to contact for interviews with the griefer community. This was 2005, SL community was relatively small, the convention in SF was very small. There were two track of panels that lasted half a day, I think. We had about 100 people in the educator's list that year. In three years, the population in the educator's list exploded to over a million. Researcher's list was added. Other tracks were added, such as community track and business track. But still to this day, the educator's track is by far the strongest part of SLCC. When I came to Portland I saw a convention similar to 2005 SLCC. Trust me, this is not preteen stage, we need to give it a big push. With proper funding and strategy, this community will explode, hell it is already exploding. Back then, virtual worlds was the big thing, and it got bigger when it was appropriated for educational, business, and entertainment purposes. Now ARGs are in that same position. That is why ARGFest should not limit itself with the unfiction community and rather expand. Unless it expands to areas of research, businesss, education, entertainment, the festival will seriously run the risk of dimishing due to lack of funding and such. I understand it first started because a group of unfiction people wanted to meet in RL and that is fine for then. But now it needs to expand. Community is great, activities are great, but they need to be somehow rendered legitimate. For example, I gave two talks in SLCC and I can put that in my CV, others get grants and funding for their research and projects in SL. They gives everything in SL some kind of a legitimacy. That gives me funding, that gets me hired, so I have a vested interest in following everyting in SL and keeping my communication alive. 2/3 of my connections on Twitter/FAcebook and other social networks is from SL. ARGFest needs to step up into that position. Trust me, social time won't go away when you add more panels. The participants may lose sleep for a night or two not to miss anything. But the festival will gain legitimacy and people will have reason to participate in it. Which is not that bad if you ask me... But of course, ARG sig conference can and will step into that position too. The question is, will ARGFest become a part of it. It should because it is one of the better solidified ARG communities if you ask me. There's also, what, Anchor Cove? We all need these under one roof. We need something that would give everyone a reason to come. Noone has the time or the money to follow everything ARG. Why force them to make a decision like this? We need to have a united thing. The segmented communities can happen in their own sites, such as unfiction, anchor cove, etc... But we need to celebrate everything ARG together. That's why I like the title ARGFest. While we are going there to celebrate everything ARG, we should be able to come out of there with useful ideas, theory, reseach, case studies, connections, etc... Let's keep the big picture in mind here, folks :) Yours trully, The renegade :P On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > My first thoughts were - Oh my god, no! What will it do to ARGfest? > Surely, all of the developers will stop coming! Then where will the > panels > be? Then players who want to meet developers will have to choose between > the two and will surely go to ARG-SIG. Then ARGfest will slowly die... > nooooooooo! > Then I got over it. > > I think ARGfest is still in its awkward preteen years. We want more > panels, > but can't add them without cutting into social time. I'd love to have > workshops and more casual discussions (the best discussions I heard all > weekend were when 15 or so people were sitting in the hospitality room on > Sunday night), but if we add them we're again cutting into social time. > Many of the players can't attend a conference that stretches into the > week, > so we can't really add more days of panels. So what does ARGfest want to > be > when it grows up? A serious conference or a social event (or can it be > both > as it grows)? Also, does it want to be an event for both players and > developers? > > The one thing I have to ask is why not just have the conferences in the > same > place and avoid separating the audience? You could have the > ARG-SIG-DEV-CON > (ha! that's a horrible name) during the week and end it with ARGfest on the > weekend. Plenty of professional conferences are during the week, so I > would > think most developers wouldn't have a problem attending. Then they would > have the option for staying an extra day or two to hang out socially with > the players (or attend any player-focused panels). Players who really want > to attend the professional portion of the conference could arrive a day or > two early. > > Michelle > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Brooke Thompson >wrote: > > > Oh, yeah, I got what you were saying and I do share your worry about what > a > > second conference could do to ARGFest. The strange mix of an audience > that > > it attracts is part of it's charm, for m. It's an environment that I'm > very > > keen to nurture. Which is why I'm so sensitive to the "closed" and > > "exclusive" talk - but also why l really appreciate the feedback :) > > > > I think that's why I lean towards the ARG SIG conference being about > > reaching out to a more professional audience. Not that I'd want it to be > > stodgy or anything, but it seems to fit the "mission" of the SIG while > also > > making it more distinct from ARGFest. But that does raise the concern > over > > what it would do to the professional & acadmic sorts that would go to > > ARGFest but can't quite justify two ARG-centric conferences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > > > Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was referring > to > >> the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even Wendy > >> kinda > >> mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I heard > >> this > >> remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, > >> you're > >> right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland this > >> year. > >> I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would erode > >> this > >> just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? > >> > >> Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain kind of > a > >> reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions I > had > >> as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have > >> perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have > >> certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not > >> accepable > >> in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... > >> > >> So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize a > >> group > >> that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't realize > >> that > >> we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. > >> > >> b. > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson >> >wrote: > >> > >> I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and > >>> have > >>> somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and > the > >>> ARG > >>> SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate > a > >>> couple threads, that is all) > >>> > >>> I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one > >>> pull > >>> from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? > is > >>> there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player > >>> enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... > >>> > >>> I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being > labelled > >>> as closed and exclusive. > >>> > >>> Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said > "hey! > >>> we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about > >>> me!" - > >>> and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months > >>> later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - > >>> whoa. > >>> Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the > guys > >>> who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about > this, > >>> so > >>> let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was > >>> born. > >>> (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born > >>> out > >>> of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive > >>> and > >>> meeting new people!) > >>> > >>> It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing > >>> team > >>> this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first > >>> thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do > >>> look > >>> beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're > >>> friendly > >>> folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get > >>> to > >>> know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to > meet > >>> and > >>> get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and > Jeromy > >>> Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on > >>> unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda > cool > >>> that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but > the > >>> ARG > >>> Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest > >>> have > >>> continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown > into > >>> collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of > >>> these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were > >>> fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months > before > >>> ARGFest. > >>> > >>> There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I > >>> think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if > it > >>> comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. > And, > >>> you > >>> might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. > We > >>> haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer > >>> team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the > >>> attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. > >>> > >>> I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and > >>> designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to > >>> describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and > >>> unique > >>> event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. > >>> > >>> Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I > >>> disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to > see > >>> a > >>> lot more of it :) > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > >> > >> http://www.palefirer.com > >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ > >> Skype: PaleFireR > >> AIM: PaleFireR > >> > >> -- > >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 23:30:16 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:30:16 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Message-ID: <4a7b9fb2.27b38c0a.7a36.04bf@mx.google.com> The funding for the tracks in SLCC are found by the group who wants that track. When you want to suggest a panel you find an investor to pay SLCC organizors (who are the community, BTW) $3000, half a day track is half that price. Currently, i see that only the ARGFest organizers are trying to fund everything. Which is exactly why we need to legitimize the activities of ARGFest by making them legitimite research venues for education, business, entertainment. Finding someone to fund Business track should be a breeze, other tracks that the community wants may need some effort, but not a whole lot. And when you have a day or two added, you can actually sleep. The reason why it is so hard to sleep in SLCC is not the extensive panels, but the parties that, again companies fund, that last till the morning. -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Senderhauf Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:06 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able > to add more panels without cutting into the social time. My perception comes from what the ARGfest coordinators have said. :) When I asked why the panels had to start so darn early on Saturday morning, they said it was because of the time crunch. If panels start later in the morning, they run later and then we don't have enough time for both the FestQuest and the dinner/keynote Saturday night. I assume it would be the same situation if more panels were simply added. When I suggested they add a second day (or half day) of panels, it seemed like it wasn't a possibility without more funding. An extra day of panels means an extra day of conference space rental. So, to be more specific, with the current amount of funding, it's not possible to add more panels without cutting into the social time. Or so I've heard. :) Michelle _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bbakiogl at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 23:32:48 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:32:48 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Message-ID: <4a7ba04a.1f588c0a.4c2d.ffffecdd@mx.google.com> Guys... I am not saying everyone pays to be deprived of sleep, and no one is allowed to go to bed till the convention is over. ARGers dont need that many elaborate parties. So Steve, for the love of God, please do sleep :P -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peters Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:19 PM To: 'Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG' Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Sleep becomes a lot more valuable after you have kids, that's all I'm sayin'.... -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:11 PM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Not to mention at least one or two of us are old and enjoy sleeping every now and again. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > >> Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able >> to add more panels without cutting into the social time. > > > My perception comes from what the ARGfest coordinators have said. ?:) ?When > I asked why the panels had to start so darn early on Saturday morning, they [The entire original message is not included] From libfli at aol.com Thu Aug 6 23:35:45 2009 From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:35:45 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE527482CC552-1260-1741@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com> or what about making an effort to have ARGs have a larger presence @GDC?? since that is already an established conference & it might be a great way to have many people learn more about this world.? kinda like GDC Mobile - maybe there could be GDC Xmedia day (w/ARGs a part of it) -----Original Message----- From: Michael Monello To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 8:10 pm Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference Well there ya go. The idea of tracts crosses streams. I agree that adding tracts to ARGFest is the way to do it, and will expand the community. And of course an education tract, which I didn't mention! -Mike On 8/6/09 11:39 PM, "Burcu Bakioglu" wrote: Michele, I am not sure you are correct in your perception of not being able to add more panels without cutting into the social time. If there is any group of people who like there social time and like to throw extravagant parties, it is the Second Life community. These people like to party and socialize till death. I mean we all got back from ARGFest about several weeks ago, and I bet none of our lives have been disrupted after that. When I go to SLCC, I literally don't sleep for three days lest I miss something, panel or otherwise. So when I get back, I need to recover for a week, but I made so many new connections and established my old connections. When I first started going to SLCC, I went there to establish connections so I can figure out who to contact for interviews with the griefer community. This was 2005, SL community was relatively small, the convention in SF was very small. There were two track of panels that lasted half a day, I think. We had about 100 people in the educator's list that year. In three years, the population in the educator's list exploded to over a million. Researcher's list was added. Other tracks were added, such as community track and business track. But still to this day, the educator's track is by far the strongest part of SLCC. When I came to Portland I saw a convention similar to 2005 SLCC. Trust me, this is not preteen stage, we need to give it a big push. With proper funding and strategy, this community will explode, hell it is already exploding. Back then, virtual worlds was the big thing, and it got bigger when it was appropriated for educational, business, and entertainment purposes. Now ARGs are in that same position. That is why ARGFest should not limit itself with the unfiction community and rather expand. Unless it expands to areas of research, businesss, education, entertainment, the festival will seriously run the risk of dimishing due to lack of funding and such. I understand it first started because a group of unfiction people wanted to meet in RL and that is fine for then. But now it needs to expand. Community is great, activities are great, but they need to be somehow rendered legitimate. For example, I gave two talks in SLCC and I can put that in my CV, others get grants and funding for their research and projects in SL. They gives everything in SL some kind of a legitimacy. That gives me funding, that gets me hired, so I have a vested interest in following everyting in SL and keeping my communication alive. 2/3 of my connections on Twitter/FAcebook and other social networks is from SL. ARGFest needs to step up into that position. Trust me, social time won't go away when you add more panels. The participants may lose sleep for a night or two not to miss anything. But the festival will gain legitimacy and people will have reason to participate in it. Which is not that bad if you ask me... But of course, ARG sig conference can and will step into that position too. The question is, will ARGFest become a part of it. It should because it is one of the better solidified ARG communities if you ask me. There's also, what, Anchor Cove? We all need these under one roof. We need something that would give everyone a reason to come. Noone has the time or the money to follow everything ARG. Why force them to make a decision like this? We need to have a united thing. The segmented communities can happen in their own sites, such as unfiction, anchor cove, etc... But we need to celebrate everything ARG together. That's why I like the title ARGFest. While we are going there to celebrate everything ARG, we should be able to come out of there with useful ideas, theory, reseach, case studies, connections, etc... Let's keep the big picture in mind here, folks :) Yours trully, The renegade :P On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: > My first thoughts were - Oh my god, no! What will it do to ARGfest? > Surely, all of the developers will stop coming! Then where will the > panels > be? Then players who want to meet developers will have to choose between > the two and will surely go to ARG-SIG. Then ARGfest will slowly die... > nooooooooo! > Then I got over it. > > I think ARGfest is still in its awkward preteen years. We want more > panels, > but can't add them without cutting into social time. I'd love to have > workshops and more casual discussions (the best discussions I heard all > weekend were when 15 or so people were sitting in the hospitality room on > Sunday night), but if we add them we're again cutting into social time. > Many of the players can't attend a conference that stretches into the > week, > so we can't really add more days of panels. So what does ARGfest want to > be > when it grows up? A serious conference or a social event (or can it be > both > as it grows)? Also, does it want to be an event for both players and > developers? > > The one thing I have to ask is why not just have the conferences in the > same > place and avoid separating the audience? You could have the > ARG-SIG-DEV-CON > (ha! that's a horrible name) during the week and end it with ARGfest on the > weekend. Plenty of professional conferences are during the week, so I > would > think most developers wouldn't have a problem attending. Then they would > have the option for staying an extra day or two to hang out socially with > the players (or attend any player-focused panels). Players who really want > to attend the professional portion of the conference could arrive a day or > two early. > > Michelle > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Brooke Thompson >wrote: > > > Oh, yeah, I got what you were saying and I do share your worry about what > a > > second conference could do to ARGFest. The strange mix of an audience > that > > it attracts is part of it's charm, for m. It's an environment that I'm > very > > keen to nurture. Which is why I'm so sensitive to the "closed" and > > "exclusive" talk - but also why l really appreciate the feedback :) > > > > I think that's why I lean towards the ARG SIG conference being about > > reaching out to a more professional audience. Not that I'd want it to be > > stodgy or anything, but it seems to fit the "mission" of the SIG while > also > > making it more distinct from ARGFest. But that does raise the concern > over > > what it would do to the professional & acadmic sorts that would go to > > ARGFest but can't quite justify two ARG-centric conferences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Burcu Bakioglu wrote: > > > > Oh Brooke, I totally understand why you got defensive. I was referring > to > >> the characterizations, hence i put it in quotation marks... Even Wendy > >> kinda > >> mentioned in her email that ARGFest is a tight-knit community. I heard > >> this > >> remark and those like others from other people as well. But even so, > >> you're > >> right, in that there was a great eclectic group there in Portland this > >> year. > >> I guess my worry is that creating an alternative conference would erode > >> this > >> just beginning eclectic environment. Does this make sense? > >> > >> Now having said that, I have to admit, that suspecting a certain kind of > a > >> reaction from the audience, I did refrain from voicing some opinions I > had > >> as least publicly. Because I knew that those opinions would not have > >> perceived positively within the unfiction community, because they have > >> certain rules of engagement. They know what is acceptable and not > >> accepable > >> in their community. So I didn't muddy the waters... > >> > >> So your point is well taken and we should not be eager to categorize a > >> group > >> that easily. But even as we throw these labels around, we don't realize > >> that > >> we are falling into similar traps. That was main point. > >> > >> b. > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brooke Thompson >> >wrote: > >> > >> I'm sure y'all are expecting this seeing as I'm not all that quiet and > >>> have > >>> somehow found myself on the organizational committees of ARGFest and > the > >>> ARG > >>> SIG conference (hows does this happen?! i just wanted to help moderate > a > >>> couple threads, that is all) > >>> > >>> I, too, wonder how the conferences would effect each other - would one > >>> pull > >>> from the other? would they enhance each other? is there room for two? > is > >>> there something to be gained or lost by the influence of the player > >>> enthusiast types? etc etc. So this discussion is really great. But... > >>> > >>> I've got to get a bit defensive over the bit about ARGFest being > labelled > >>> as closed and exclusive. > >>> > >>> Unfiction started one night in a chat channel when two friends said > "hey! > >>> we should meet for beers!" and a couple more said "oh hey! what about > >>> me!" - > >>> and a couple weeks later, 15 people showed up in Vegas. A couple months > >>> later, we met up again in Orlando and like 10 more people showed up - > >>> whoa. > >>> Two years later, we thought it'd be cool to see if we could meet the > guys > >>> who did AotH & PerplexCity but "hey, they probably won't know about > this, > >>> so > >>> let's invite them and give them a reason to come". The conference was > >>> born. > >>> (ok, it wasn't exactly like that, but pretty darn close... it was born > >>> out > >>> of a desire to be anything but exclusive, it was about being inclusive > >>> and > >>> meeting new people!) > >>> > >>> It is still run by the community leaders at unfiction (the organizing > >>> team > >>> this year was the admins and a few portland locals) and, yes, our first > >>> thoughts always go to the community that we are a part of - but we do > >>> look > >>> beyond that and try to be quite welcoming. Not only because we're > >>> friendly > >>> folk, but because we want to get to know others and we want them to get > >>> to > >>> know us. We don't want to be this exclusive little club; we want to > meet > >>> and > >>> get to know the Brian Clarks and Mike Monellos and Yomi Ayenis and > Jeromy > >>> Barbers and Non Chalances of the world. It doesn't matter if they're on > >>> unfiction or, even, if they've ever heard of it. We think it's kinda > cool > >>> that some have gone on to become fairly active on the UF forums, but > the > >>> ARG > >>> Community is so much more than that and relationships made at ARGFest > >>> have > >>> continued to bloom on twitter and facebook and some have even grown > into > >>> collaborations. Which is really kinda cool when you think that a lot of > >>> these people didn't know each other before ARGFest and many people were > >>> fairly unaware of and/or unknown by unfiction just a couple months > before > >>> ARGFest. > >>> > >>> There may be a lot of traditions and cultural mores and whatnot, but I > >>> think that's just as true of any conference of this size no matter if > it > >>> comes out of a online message board or a professional organization. > And, > >>> you > >>> might be surprised by just how un-unfiction the conference really is. > We > >>> haven't gotten the survey out there yet (small and exhausted volunteer > >>> team... it's coming) but my guess is that it was about 60/40 on the > >>> attendees who would self-identify as being a part of the UF community. > >>> > >>> I think it's just at a funny size with a strange mix of players and > >>> designers, hobbyists and professionals - which makes it quite hard to > >>> describe and/or provide focus for. But it also makes for a great and > >>> unique > >>> event filled with all sorts of new (and old) perspectives. > >>> > >>> Defensive bit over... I'm absolutely loving this feedback (even if I > >>> disagree with the premise). It is awesome! I would very much like to > see > >>> a > >>> lot more of it :) > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. > >> > >> http://www.palefirer.com > >> http://palefirer.com/blog/ > >> Skype: PaleFireR > >> AIM: PaleFireR > >> > >> -- > >> "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From wendeth at wendydespain.com Fri Aug 7 01:26:52 2009 From: wendeth at wendydespain.com (Wendy Despain) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:26:52 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <8CBE527482CC552-1260-1741@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBE527482CC552-1260-1741@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <730a68a1a55154bcfe2abc2ca6b16456.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> I guess I always saw ARGfest as more like the sci-fi (book) con scene. It's a very vibrant scene - cons put on by fans, for fans, inviting "pros" (using their terms here) to give panels and generally hang out with their fans. The pros love to go to those cons, and love to schmooze with the fen. Some of these cons are huge - Worldcon (World Science Fiction Convention) for instance: http://www.anticipationsf.ca/ I guess I just assumed that was the kind of thing ARGfest wanted to grow into. They have serious parties with live bands, tons of panels, all kinds of banquets, even awards. But this is definitely about the fan community. That's where the focus is. And I think the fan community completely deserves every minute of it. In contrast, there's Book Expo America: http://bookweb.org/events/bea It has a different focus - it's about the business of making books. Many of the same people attend (authors, agents) but it's a completely different conference. I was thinking we would shape the ARG SIG conference (whatever it gets called) like Book Expo, not Worldcon - inviting the pervasive games crowd, the book publishers, television producers - every kind of thing that ARGs touch. A place to talk shop. I guess I just don't see it changing ARGfest at all. I mean, the developers I know really love to interact with fans and would continue going to ARGfest and loving to give presentations and hanging out at parties. I'm all for helping ARGfest grow into its full potential. But I don't want to squash it by making players feel unwelcome because of a businessy atmosphere. I hope this makes sense. I'm definitely not going to push this in a direction nobody else wants to go, I just wanted to make sure I explained what I was thinking. It's great that we're talking about options. I guess I'm just tired of taking the message to other conferences. I feel like we're already doing that. But that means we're always talking to some group other than ourselves (the videogame developers, the indie film group etc.) and I think if we look at all the things that *could* be included under the ARG-like umbrella, we've got a large enough trade group we can start talking amongst ourselves. GDC is scaling back and refocusing this year, so I doubt we'll be able to convince them to expand. But there are a lot of people (indie film makers) who just wouldn't even consider going to GDC. ARGs are (pretty much by definition?) relevant to multiple media practitioners. I think we could push the state of the art forward to the next level by getting us all together in one place. Wendy Despain quantumcontent.com From bclark at gmdstudios.com Fri Aug 7 09:51:13 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:51:13 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <730a68a1a55154bcfe2abc2ca6b16456.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <8CBE527482CC552-1260-1741@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com> <730a68a1a55154bcfe2abc2ca6b16456.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: <596F4B2438A2445F9F080F414F22364D@Tricorder> So if all of this is so preliminary, why are you already taking the step of asking people to pick between two months and eight cities in a poll? It all feels a little cart-before-horse. Brian From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 10:18:22 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:18:22 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <730a68a1a55154bcfe2abc2ca6b16456.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> References: <8CBE527482CC552-1260-1741@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com> <730a68a1a55154bcfe2abc2ca6b16456.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Ah, this puts things in perspective a bit. The question being: does ARGFest have as big of a following as ComicCon or other sci-fi gatherings? I am not sure how ComicCon is set up, but I bet there's talking shop in there too. And some cross-pollination is bound to happen, which in my book, is a good thing. And if ARGFest doesn't want to expand and change and keep it as it is, that is understandable. I am not sure that i agree with it, but fair enough. As far as I can tell, ArgFest accomplished a tremendous job in building the community/festival and created a recognized brand for itself. But I also sense, because of the concerns that were voiced during happy hour drinks at a local venue in Portland, that they may need help. And, if they are amenable to change, we need to reach over and work on making this a colloborative project. In other words, we shouldn't be asking them "Hey would you mind if we created another conference and played in your back porch?" We should be asking "How can we unite our efforts and present a stronger front. Take ARG to its future instead of subdividing it. Make it a legitimate initiative" I whole-heartedly agree with what Mike is saying, just that SxSW and other gatherings are a bit larger in scope and not sure if they present an effective model for ARGFest (which is by far smaller and niche), that is why I showed SLCC, it began just like this, six years ago... Hey, if you can get traditional universities and departments to appreciate the educational value in investing in virtual environments, ARGs shouldn't be that difficult. What I noticed in my experience is this: I interview players, users, puppetmasters, Linden Lab employees, project managers etc. And they give me their own time, they help me out, they make connections for me. And giving presentations on the research I have done as a result of their help is my way of giving back to the community. Don't I do this in other conferences recognized by in my field? Sure, I am scheduled to present in AotH at MLA this December. But the people associated with that project won't be there. >From what I've seen, community likes that, they like to be appreciated, ackowledged. Besides the SL/griefer example I gave in an earlier e-mail, I had a similar experience in LG15. I was going through the LG15 threads on Anchor Cove and I saw that my name was being tossed around. One of the players mentioned my MIT presentation about LG15 and its ARGs, another said that she interviewed with me and we became good friends later on (which we did, met up in SF later), the other said (linking my dissertation to the forums) "And this goes to show that you can actually make a career out of watching these videos and talking to us." It is this kind on interaction that I do not want to lose by creating a separate conference. >From what I've seen in SLCC: 1) You get as much social time as you need even if you have concurrent tracks. Don't attend any panels and just interact with people if you like, and you're allowed to go to bed when you feel like it. 2) Tracks are fundable. Set a deadline for track proposals and have the people who are proposing find the finding. SL people are finding funding from virtual companies like Rivers Run Red, Strokerz, and other SL-based companies which are seeking the most efficient way of advertising their brand. And ARGs are entrenched in marketing through and through, and we can't find funding? Whichever commercial ARG is running that year, we need to knock on their door for ARGFest or other conference we are thinking about doing. 3) Players won't get drowned in shop talk. There are a lot of SL users (called residents) who have nothing to do with the educator/researcher/business group. They know me through the parties, bar gatherings and social events and such. But the beauty is that that community actually has a lot to talk about when they meet one another in these gatherings, i.e. I saw a lot of Linden Lab employees and owners of virtual businesses in that Griefer Appreciation Gala that i was talking about earlier. Here's the SLCC blog: http://www.slconvention.org/ (the site is not working currently, but look at it when it comes back) Here's the link for the SLEDcc 2008 page: http://sledcc.wikispaces.com/(this is for the educator's group) And here's what we really should be thinking about doing: a colloborative blog co-authored by important people in the field. A repository for ARG industry/research/and whatever else that is related to ARGs. This list is called Terra Nova and is kept up by 20-30 big names in the virtual worlds field. These guys also have a guild in WoW called Terror Nova in which they engage in nightly raids and stuff. One of them hosted a conference at the NYU shool of Law earlier this year. This is the power of commumity--> http://terranova.blogs.com/ And with that, I am taking off the evil moustache bestowed upon me from a retired Grand Inquisitor. I now actually have to work... Stay classy, ARGlist, and I do apologize for muddying the waters :P b. Whatever we are going On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Wendy Despain wrote: > I guess I always saw ARGfest as more like the sci-fi (book) con scene. > It's a very vibrant scene - cons put on by fans, for fans, inviting > "pros" (using their terms here) to give panels and generally hang out > with their fans. The pros love to go to those cons, and love to > schmooze with the fen. > > Some of these cons are huge - Worldcon (World Science Fiction > Convention) for instance: http://www.anticipationsf.ca/ > > I guess I just assumed that was the kind of thing ARGfest wanted to > grow into. They have serious parties with live bands, tons of panels, > all kinds of banquets, even awards. > > But this is definitely about the fan community. That's where the focus > is. > And I think the fan community completely deserves every minute of it. > > In contrast, there's Book Expo America: http://bookweb.org/events/bea > It has a different focus - it's about the business of making books. > Many of the same people attend (authors, agents) but it's a completely > different conference. > > I was thinking we would shape the ARG SIG conference (whatever it gets > called) like Book Expo, not Worldcon - inviting the pervasive games > crowd, the book publishers, television producers - every kind of thing > that ARGs touch. A place to talk shop. > > I guess I just don't see it changing ARGfest at all. I mean, the > developers I know really love to interact with fans and would continue > going to ARGfest and loving to give presentations and hanging out at > parties. > > I'm all for helping ARGfest grow into its full potential. But I don't > want to squash it by making players feel unwelcome because of a > businessy atmosphere. > > I hope this makes sense. I'm definitely not going to push this in a > direction nobody else wants to go, I just wanted to make sure I > explained what I was thinking. It's great that we're talking about > options. > > I guess I'm just tired of taking the message to other conferences. I > feel like we're already doing that. But that means we're always > talking to some group other than ourselves (the videogame developers, > the indie film group etc.) and I think if we look at all the things > that *could* be included under the ARG-like umbrella, we've got a > large enough trade group we can start talking amongst ourselves. > > GDC is scaling back and refocusing this year, so I doubt we'll be able > to convince them to expand. But there are a lot of people (indie film > makers) who just wouldn't even consider going to GDC. ARGs are (pretty > much by definition?) relevant to multiple media practitioners. I think > we could push the state of the art forward to the next level by > getting us all together in one place. > > Wendy Despain > quantumcontent.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:02:33 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:02:33 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference Message-ID: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing for right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG conference. What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From Joshua at igda.org Fri Aug 7 11:16:24 2009 From: Joshua at igda.org (Joshua Caulfield) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:16:24 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> Dear Arg List, Thank you Andrea for taking the blame, but the blame is mine. I too am very excited about this potential project, and I failed to point out a few of the restrictions we are going to be working within. As an association professional, one of the places where I bring value is in the operational aspects of meetings. The event planning team at Talley and I are working on finding some great locations that are close to large groups of our members: California, Texas, Washington State and New York are our largest concentrations. However we will look outside of the major venues to find great locations that are more private for a smaller group like ours. (Unless you are bringing 10,000 people into a major metro area, you don't matter to them.) Why? Because if I can hold the meeting in a smaller city I can literally save $50-$100 per urn on coffee, $2-$3 savings on each can/bottle of red bull/water/soda, save visiting folks $100 a night on room rates, and most importantly bring the cost to attend the meeting below $100. I hope that makes sense to everyone. Please understand we are still looking at top notch locations, but just not the name that roll off the tongue when you think of cities in the US. The discussion about this event has been very enlightening, and I look forward to serving you folks up with a great meeting that has a different appeal than ARG fest. Sincerely, Joshua Caulfield Executive Director IGDA ________________________________ From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Andrea Phillips Sent: Fri 8/7/2009 11:02 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing for right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG conference. What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bclark at gmdstudios.com Fri Aug 7 11:32:21 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:32:21 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <886044CC9FE34C22A61FA66E4FBA0AC9@Tricorder> Again, I hate to be a Debby downer, but I think you have the questions in the wrong order: What do we want to accomplish as a SIG ... then is a conference a tactic for getting there. Otherwise, you're going to have 30 people with 30 different visions and no central mission for any of it. Talking about what speakers or panels or whatnot you want as a part of it isn't really useful ... what is the reason for it to exist, and is that a part of what the SIG exists to do? Also: > or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? Strawman. -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:03 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing for right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG conference. What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From bclark at gmdstudios.com Fri Aug 7 11:37:54 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:37:54 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> Message-ID: > Why? Because if I can hold the meeting in a smaller city I can > literally save $50-$100 per urn on coffee, $2-$3 savings on each > can/bottle of red bull/water/soda, save visiting folks $100 a > night on room rates, and most importantly bring the cost to > attend the meeting below $100. D.I.Y. Days pulled the equivalent off for $1500 budget and thus kept the conference free. So that "conference" model doesn't need to be the start and stop of what we consider, right? From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:41:05 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:41:05 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> Message-ID: At any rate, I am not sure why apologies are being posted. I personally don't think these discussions are early or premature. Though I have to agree with Brian. What do we want to achieve here? Did we discuss this here before or was this discussion held somewhere else like IRC chatrooms? On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Brian Clark wrote: > > Why? Because if I can hold the meeting in a smaller city I can > > literally save $50-$100 per urn on coffee, $2-$3 savings on each > > can/bottle of red bull/water/soda, save visiting folks $100 a > > night on room rates, and most importantly bring the cost to > > attend the meeting below $100. > > D.I.Y. Days pulled the equivalent off for $1500 budget and thus kept the > conference free. > > So that "conference" model doesn't need to be the start and stop of what we > consider, right? > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From alexfleetwood at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:37:04 2009 From: alexfleetwood at gmail.com (Alex Fleetwood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:37:04 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <886044CC9FE34C22A61FA66E4FBA0AC9@Tricorder> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <886044CC9FE34C22A61FA66E4FBA0AC9@Tricorder> Message-ID: <2A19CC94-572F-40AC-BD8E-19340B730C52@googlemail.com> can I unsubscribe from this list please On 7 Aug 2009, at 16:32, Brian Clark wrote: > > Again, I hate to be a Debby downer, but I think you have the > questions in > the wrong order: What do we want to accomplish as a SIG ... then is a > conference a tactic for getting there. Otherwise, you're going to > have 30 > people with 30 different visions and no central mission for any of it. > > Talking about what speakers or panels or whatnot you want as a part > of it > isn't really useful ... what is the reason for it to exist, and is > that a > part of what the SIG exists to do? > > Also: > >> or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? > > Strawman. > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org > ] On > Behalf Of Andrea Phillips > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:03 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG > Conference > > I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing > discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a > gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit > about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all > probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing for > right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take > all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen > people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) > > I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even > announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG conference. > What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or > events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an > unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you > agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From dflor71 at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:46:20 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> Message-ID: <50b4b0580908070846l2b7bc39bm76e694195bfd2818@mail.gmail.com> Bah... Have it in Miami: buy a $2 container of Cuban coffee and you can have the whole conference wired for hours. ;) I admit I haven't followed the details of this thread much, but in briefly thinking about it it does make sense to maintain one conference and simply expand on it. I've never been to ARGFest myself, but it seems like it's definitely geared to the fans more than creators. Perhaps if we start doing workshops of some sort, presenting some of the business aspects of it for those that want to get in to the industry for real, maybe that'll work. I think you can get away with that by simply adding a day to the conference; again, I have yet to attend one, but from afar it does seem like somewhat of a whirlwind of a conference. Tnx & Rgds... David Flor Darklight Interactive "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Brian Clark wrote: >> Why? ?Because if I can hold the meeting in a smaller city I can >> literally save $50-$100 per urn on coffee, $2-$3 savings on each >> can/bottle of red bull/water/soda, save visiting folks $100 a >> night on room rates, and most importantly bring the cost to >> attend the meeting below $100. > > D.I.Y. Days pulled the equivalent off for $1500 budget and thus kept the > conference free. > > So that "conference" model doesn't need to be the start and stop of what we > consider, right? > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 12:47:39 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:47:39 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <50b4b0580908070846l2b7bc39bm76e694195bfd2818@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA0270C295@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM> <50b4b0580908070846l2b7bc39bm76e694195bfd2818@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just to throw my opinion in: I'd welcome an IGDA conference for ARGs of some description, whether that's an extra day on ARGfest or whatever. For me, there'd be value in getting to meet some other creators, hear about what they're making, chew over some issues. (Having said that, I probably wouldn't be able to make it out to one early next year because I have a book coming out. But I'd love to come to a future conference.) I've never been to ARGfest, and this thread got me asking myself why. I think, for me, ARGfest has always seemed a bit intimidating! It's seemed to me like an event created by people who are already friends, or at least are acquainted online. Even as a Perplex City creator I didn't feel it was really 'for me'. That might be a misperception on my part, but I think industry events can seem paradoxically more 'welcoming' (because there's no expectation that you'll already be friendly with the people there; you just sign up, pay your money, and go) than more informal gatherings. - Naomi On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM, David Flor wrote: > Bah... Have it in Miami: buy a $2 container of Cuban coffee and you > can have the whole conference wired for hours. ;) > > I admit I haven't followed the details of this thread much, but in > briefly thinking about it it does make sense to maintain one > conference and simply expand on it. I've never been to ARGFest myself, > but it seems like it's definitely geared to the fans more than > creators. Perhaps if we start doing workshops of some sort, presenting > some of the business aspects of it for those that want to get in to > the industry for real, maybe that'll work. > > I think you can get away with that by simply adding a day to the > conference; again, I have yet to attend one, but from afar it does > seem like somewhat of a whirlwind of a conference. > > Tnx & Rgds... > David Flor > Darklight Interactive > "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Brian Clark wrote: > >> Why? Because if I can hold the meeting in a smaller city I can > >> literally save $50-$100 per urn on coffee, $2-$3 savings on each > >> can/bottle of red bull/water/soda, save visiting folks $100 a > >> night on room rates, and most importantly bring the cost to > >> attend the meeting below $100. > > > > D.I.Y. Days pulled the equivalent off for $1500 budget and thus kept the > > conference free. > > > > So that "conference" model doesn't need to be the start and stop of what > we > > consider, right? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From dodo at WPI.EDU Fri Aug 7 12:23:20 2009 From: dodo at WPI.EDU (O'Donnell, Dean M) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:23:20 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey all, I went to ARGFest 2008 because it was local to me. I'd glanced around Unfiction, but wasn't part of the community. I found a welcoming group, and interesting panels and activities. So much so, that I got involved at the unfiction forums and flew across the country for ARGFest 2009. This year at GDC I went to the ARG SIG meeting and found it sparsely attended by mostly academics (like myself). I asked then, "Why isn't the ARG community here?" I was told they mostly go to SXSW. Yet at GDC this year I counted at least 5 talks/panels that were about ARGs or ARG-related stuff, whereas in previous years maybe there was one. The general comments on Twitter (ah, how Twitter has changed communication at conferences) during ARGFest this year was that the presenters didn't need to explain ARGs to the ARGFest crowd. That some of the talks were for investors rather than the "community." Also (and you'll remember this, Andrea) while sitting around Friday night some of us did an informal poll, asking everyone passing by the lobby area what ARGs they'd played in the past year. Most people we asked hadn't played any (granted this was an unscientific poll). That seemed to be a theme, as I kept asking all weekend, and the people at ARGFest had played ARGs in the past, weren't active anymore, but still knew and hung out with the unfiction community. So here was an ARG conference full of people who didn't play ARGs. What the heck was going on? Have they gone on to making ARGs? Some yes, mostly no. They just like the people. I was very confused by this. I kept asking questions at the panels (maybe too many, but hey, I like a fake moustache as much as the next guy) about game design because everyone was talking about storytelling. I got a lot of comments about hating puzzles, about outsourcing puzzles, and a lot of talking around telling stories without actually talking about what players do during these experiments. The GDC talks were all about bringing mechanics out of the computer and into the world. They weren't concerned with story at all. It seems to me there are disparate communities within the ARG world who don't really talk to each other. A lot of the PMs at ARGFest seem to come from film, so wouldn't even think about being part of IGDA and getting on this list. It would seem like an ARG SIG conference's goal (if you're looking for one) would be bringing these communities together to talk to each other and learn from each other. Best, Dean ____________________________________________ Dean O?Donnell Associate Director, Interactive Media and Game Development Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI dodo at wpi.edu Phone: 508-831-5947 Fax: 508-831-5932 ________________________________________ From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Phillips [deusexmachinatio at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:02 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing for right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG conference. What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 13:18:46 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:18:46 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908071018l12cfe582q184da473e60d7162@mail.gmail.com> Snipping, because this is a response to lots and lots of people by now. My vision for the ARG SIG conference was starting a conversation between creators and commissioners. Let's say in the morning you have Penguin and Running Press talking about what they're looking for in a transmedia book. Or NBC, C4 and Warner Brothers talking about the business philosophy behind their online immersive experiences -- what they want to get out of them, and what they think has (and hasn't) worked for them. These speakers would be people who probably aren't on this email list, and would almost certainly never show up to ARGfest (at least not unless it undergoes a pretty explosive transformation) but who have things to say that as a group, we'd really like to hear. And then in the afternoon you have the other half of the conversation. That's where we get members of our community talking about the different kind of metrics of an ARG and what they really mean (HI BRIAN AND MIKE). Maybe how to build a working framework so that characters can communicate with players responsively and quickly when you work with an organization with a slow but unskippable approval process and a particularly cautious set of lawyers. Or the importance of monitoring pace and tension, and making sure that every time you ask a player to do something, they get something meaningful in return. Stuff that I at least think those morning media people would be really interested in learning about -- things they might not even be on their radar, but should be. Not to mention the value of putting a bunch of people who might be in a position to need and hire ARG developers in a room with a bunch of ARG developers who like working a lot more than not-working. Ahem. This sort of conference fulfills what I see as the two sometimes conflicting reasons the SIG exists: One, to provide a place for ARG developers to get together, talk shop, and help each other out; and two, to create information and resources for those who want to learn more about this crazy stuff we do. -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From mj_williams at mac.com Fri Aug 7 13:29:03 2009 From: mj_williams at mac.com (mj williams) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:29:03 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <2A19CC94-572F-40AC-BD8E-19340B730C52@googlemail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <886044CC9FE34C22A61FA66E4FBA0AC9@Tricorder> <2A19CC94-572F-40AC-BD8E-19340B730C52@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <2D1C3418-7785-41E2-B085-E5AACBAF93EB@mac.com> I want to unsubscribe too please On 7 Aug 2009, at 16:37, Alex Fleetwood wrote: > can I unsubscribe from this list please > > On 7 Aug 2009, at 16:32, Brian Clark wrote: > >> >> Again, I hate to be a Debby downer, but I think you have the >> questions in >> the wrong order: What do we want to accomplish as a SIG ... then is a >> conference a tactic for getting there. Otherwise, you're going to >> have 30 >> people with 30 different visions and no central mission for any of >> it. >> >> Talking about what speakers or panels or whatnot you want as a part >> of it >> isn't really useful ... what is the reason for it to exist, and is >> that a >> part of what the SIG exists to do? >> >> Also: >> >>> or do you agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? >> >> Strawman. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org >> ] On >> Behalf Of Andrea Phillips >> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:03 AM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG >> Conference >> >> I've just pulled the survey down -- not because of the ongoing >> discussion, which I think has been great to have, but because I got a >> gentle notice from the powers that be in the IGDA explaining a bit >> about finances, the upshot being that the cities on the list are all >> probably too expensive for the modest event we're looking at doing >> for >> right now. Apologies to all of you for jumping the gun, and I'll take >> all the blame on this one. Sorry. (But thank you to the few dozen >> people who had already done the survey, you're the best!) >> >> I think we should keep talking about this, though, and I'll even >> announce next week's topic a little early: So yeah, an ARG >> conference. >> What do you want out of such a thing? What panels or presentations or >> events do you wish we could have? What speakers? Would you prefer an >> unconference format? Do you even want another conference, or do you >> agree that ARGfest is (or should be) the alpha and omega? >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From andrhia at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 14:34:39 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:34:39 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Unsubscribing Message-ID: <5c799fd60908071134g240f7cd2g525562d173cf1b4c@mail.gmail.com> Please note that if you want to unsubscribe from the list, you can do it yourself by visiting the link at the bottom of every list email. Scroll down to the last field on the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options." As a reminder, that link is: http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss That said, I've gone ahead and manually unuibscribed the two individuals who have asked about it. Thanks! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From varineq at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 14:51:18 2009 From: varineq at gmail.com (Michelle Senderhauf) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:51:18 -0500 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45cb08290908071151i614f25b5x90d33cf56cc3897e@mail.gmail.com> > > > Also (and you'll remember this, Andrea) while sitting around Friday night > some of us did an informal poll, asking everyone passing by the lobby area > what ARGs they'd played in the past year. Most people we asked hadn't > played any (granted this was an unscientific poll). That seemed to be a > theme, as I kept asking all weekend, and the people at ARGFest had played > ARGs in the past, weren't active anymore, but still knew and hung out with > the unfiction community. So here was an ARG conference full of people who > didn't play ARGs. What the heck was going on? Have they gone on to making > ARGs? Some yes, mostly no. They just like the people. > Are you sure you were in the right hotel? ;) Honestly, before Must Love Robots I don't think I had fully played a game last year. Or maybe I've just forgotten about them (which isn't a good thing either). Michelle From bbakiogl at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 15:08:45 2009 From: bbakiogl at gmail.com (Burcu Bakioglu) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:08:45 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908071134g240f7cd2g525562d173cf1b4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908071134g240f7cd2g525562d173cf1b4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: THANK YOU!!! You think people as tech savvy as us would have figured this out by now... On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Please note that if you want to unsubscribe from the list, you can do > it yourself by visiting the link at the bottom of every list email. > Scroll down to the last field on the bottom of the page. Enter your > email address and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options." As a > reminder, that link is: > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > That said, I've gone ahead and manually unuibscribed the two > individuals who have asked about it. Thanks! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Thanks, Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D. http://www.palefirer.com http://palefirer.com/blog/ Skype: PaleFireR AIM: PaleFireR -- "Congratulations! You're the first human to fail the Turing test." From brooke at giantmice.com Fri Aug 7 16:44:09 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:44:09 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <45cb08290908071151i614f25b5x90d33cf56cc3897e@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <45cb08290908071151i614f25b5x90d33cf56cc3897e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <322E8786-1FDA-4DA7-A921-34287998F063@giantmice.com> Another thing is what "playing" means in various crowds. At a place like ARGFest, which is filled with enthusiasts, "playing" means being very actively involved. Yet, if you put those same people into a different environment, they may very well claim to have played any number of games. For example, if you had asked me what games I played, I'd laugh, "... play games?! I don't play games! Well, I played Last Call Poker, but that's it." Yet, I have maintained player resources for several games (including a fairly comprehensive guide for Push, NV) and that act alone implies that I was fairly deeply involved in playing those games. Or, more recently, Must Love Robots - among the enthusiast crowd, I don't claim to have played it. I wasn't posting on the forums and participating in building the narrative. There is nothing there to suggest to those that were actively playing that I was involved at all. I was a lurker. And, claiming to be a player in a crowd where there are distinctions made between lurkers and players would be an exaggeration of my involvement. But among my friends who are outside of the enthusiast crowd and don't make such distinctions... "Heck yeah I played Must Love Robots! It was easy and great fun and brilliant! I followed along on twitter and watched a bunch of the videos. You totally missed out!" So, yeah, those people you talked to... I bet if you asked them on the street, you'd get a very different answer. On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Michelle Senderhauf wrote: >> >> >> Also (and you'll remember this, Andrea) while sitting around Friday >> night >> some of us did an informal poll, asking everyone passing by the >> lobby area >> what ARGs they'd played in the past year. Most people we asked >> hadn't >> played any (granted this was an unscientific poll). That seemed to >> be a >> theme, as I kept asking all weekend, and the people at ARGFest had >> played >> ARGs in the past, weren't active anymore, but still knew and hung >> out with >> the unfiction community. So here was an ARG conference full of >> people who >> didn't play ARGs. What the heck was going on? Have they gone on >> to making >> ARGs? Some yes, mostly no. They just like the people. >> > > Are you sure you were in the right hotel? ;) > > Honestly, before Must Love Robots I don't think I had fully played a > game > last year. Or maybe I've just forgotten about them (which isn't a > good > thing either). > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From andrhia at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:00:38 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:00:38 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Fwd: [writers] Gamasutra Q&A on Games Narrative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c799fd60908080900l54910e0fl6bde4e22685fc395@mail.gmail.com> An interesting article. Rhianna works in traditional video games, but an awful lot of this sounds.... familiar. :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rhianna Pratchett Date: Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM Subject: [writers] Gamasutra Q&A on Games Narrative To: writers at igda.org Hi guys, Just had a length Q&A go up on Gamasutra on games narrative, which may interest some of you. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4104/vital_game_narrative_a_.php Warning... it's meaty! Rhi PS. This may well be relevant for the other lists, but I've lost track of the email addresses for them. I think this is the only one I'm on. ________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary?get free winks and emoticons. Get Them Now _______________________________________________ Writers mailing list Writers at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/writers -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 10:03:23 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:03:23 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] IRC Chat Today! Message-ID: <5c799fd60908100703q648277ddibdb49a6a3fa3c12f@mail.gmail.com> Just a gentle reminder of today's IRC chat. It's at 4pm Eastern time, 1pm Pacific, and I believe 8pm GMT right now. As usual, correct my arithmetic if need be. Instructions on how to get to IRC are in our wiki: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats Please note that the IRC channel has become fairly active in general, though, and if you'd like to pop in for a chat at other times, you're welcome to do so. Odds are pretty good you'll find somebody to talk to. Thanks! -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From deusexmachinatio at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 09:59:31 2009 From: deusexmachinatio at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:59:31 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] New Topic of the Week Aug. 7: ARG SIG Conference In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908071018l12cfe582q184da473e60d7162@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908070802l304e87f2r32f3e8da30782d84@mail.gmail.com> <5c799fd60908071018l12cfe582q184da473e60d7162@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908100659w63a72745uabdd1e755f5ae7a@mail.gmail.com> Just wanted to reiterate that the topic of this week is our proposed ARG SIG conference. I'd particularly like feedback on the focus I wrote about on Friday -- that conversation between creators and commissioners. I was really very surprised I didn't get a chorus of emails telling me what an awful, terrible, unworkable idea it was. If you keep this up, you're going to make me feel like nobody loves me anymore. ^_^ On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Snipping, because this is a response to lots and lots of people by > now. My vision for the ARG SIG conference was starting a conversation > between creators and commissioners. > > Let's say in the morning you have Penguin and Running Press talking > about what they're looking for in a transmedia book. Or NBC, C4 and > Warner Brothers talking about the business philosophy behind their > online immersive experiences -- what they want to get out of them, and > what they think has (and hasn't) worked for them. These speakers would > be people who probably aren't on this email list, and would almost > certainly never show up to ARGfest (at least not unless it undergoes a > pretty explosive transformation) but who have things to say that as a > group, we'd really like to hear. > > And then in the afternoon you have the other half of the conversation. > That's where we get members of our community talking about the > different kind of metrics of an ARG and what they really mean (HI > BRIAN AND MIKE). Maybe how to build a working framework so that > characters can communicate with players responsively and quickly when > you work with an organization with a slow but unskippable approval > process and a particularly cautious set of lawyers. Or the importance > of monitoring pace and tension, and making sure that every time you > ask a player to do something, they get something meaningful in return. > Stuff that I at least think those morning media people would be really > interested in learning about -- things they might not even be on their > radar, but should be. > > Not to mention the value of putting a bunch of people who might be in > a position to need and hire ARG developers in a room with a bunch of > ARG developers who like working a lot more than not-working. Ahem. > > This sort of conference fulfills what I see as the two sometimes > conflicting reasons the SIG exists: One, to provide a place for ARG > developers to get together, talk shop, and help each other out; and > two, to create information and resources for those who want to learn > more about this crazy stuff we do. > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From baroblik at videotron.ca Mon Aug 10 10:31:55 2009 From: baroblik at videotron.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Genevi=E8ve_Cardin?=) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:31:55 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] IRC Chat Today! In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908100703q648277ddibdb49a6a3fa3c12f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908100703q648277ddibdb49a6a3fa3c12f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: GGgggrrrr It's vaccination day @ 3PM. I'll try to pop in when I'll get back, because there's a subject I need to discuss with everyone regarding Mazda 33Keys. Have a nice day ! G. Le 09-08-10 ? 10:03, Andrea Phillips a ?crit : > Just a gentle reminder of today's IRC chat. It's at 4pm Eastern time, > 1pm Pacific, and I believe 8pm GMT right now. As usual, correct my > arithmetic if need be. > > Instructions on how to get to IRC are in our wiki: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats > > Please note that the IRC channel has become fairly active in general, > though, and if you'd like to pop in for a chat at other times, you're > welcome to do so. Odds are pretty good you'll find somebody to talk > to. > > Thanks! > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From andrhia at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 10:26:04 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:26:04 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Fwd: [SIGs-Admin] Call for Research Proposals Global Game Jam 2010 In-Reply-To: <57F0D624-BC45-429A-A9CE-CC7014327474@gmail.com> References: <57F0D624-BC45-429A-A9CE-CC7014327474@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c799fd60908130726p2b0d4797ya852cc2fe3ee904c@mail.gmail.com> I thought you guys might find this interesting. :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Susan Gold Date: Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:28 AM Subject: [SIGs-Admin] Call for Research Proposals Global Game Jam 2010 To: Private list for SIG leaders , IGDA Game Education Listserv , listserv at uta.fi, icec at listserver.tue.nl Please Distribute Widely Global Game Jam 2010 (http://globalgamejam.org) Call for Research Projects In the framework of the Global Game Jam 2010, we are inviting all interested applicants to submit a research project. Last year?s Global Game Jam gathered professionals, students and hobbyists from over 54 locations worldwide with the goal of developing games over a weekend. The result was 1650 people making 370 games. This year?s GGJ promises to include an even larger number of sites around the globe. The organizers believe this presents a unique opportunity for researchers interested in questions such as, but not limited to: ?????? Global trends in game development, as exemplified by GGJ games ?????? Cross-cultural communication in game jam game development ?????? Team creation and management in game jam game development ?????? Project management in game jam game development ?????? Iterative design and rapid prototyping in the context of a game jam event. ?????? Time-constrained innovation and experimentation: game jams as development event. ?????? Global business perspectives of the Global Game Jam. We hereby invite scholars in any field who wish to address research questions through the Global Game Jam event to submit a research project application. There is no specific topic, methodology or approach that is favored, so long as the question can be well addressed through observation of or post-analysis of the GGJ event and outcomes. Some questions that will guide the reviewing process include: ?????? Is the proposal for a project that will add to the total body of knowledge, increase understanding, or improve game design, collaboration, or other academic disciplines? ?????? Why is the project needed? ?????? What long-term intellectual and/or economic benefits can be derived from it? ?????? How does the project relate to research that has already been done in the area? ?????? What will it accomplish? ?????? Will the results interest a meaningful audience or serve a particular group of users? ?????? Have project goals been well conceptualized and well presented? ?????? Is the outcome of the study clear? ?????? Are project objectives realistic and clearly defined? Will the methodology achieve the desired outcomes? Does the design permit the evaluation of achievement of project goals? ?????? Is the methodology practical and logical? Have the correct questions been asked? ?????? Has the applicant proved familiarity with the field; has the appropriate background research been done? ?????? Have all the procedures been fully described? ?????? Are the concepts original and innovative? ?????? How will the results be disseminated to reach appropriate audiences? We encourage research projects that can have potential industry outcomes or applications, and we welcome projects that add to understanding of and further development of the cultural and social importance of the Global Game Jam. Accepted projects will be integrated into the development and arrangement of the Global Game Jam 2010. Selected research projects will be featured as a part of the Global Game Jam (GGJ) 2010 event. Accepted projects will also have the opportunity of using the global network of sites from the early stages of the Global Game Jam organization. The Global Game Jam will also provide letters of support to aid researchers in seeking funding to support the research, and will assist in the distribution and collection of informed consent forms. (Note that acceptance does not include research funding: researchers are required to fund their projects). Application Requirements Submissions should consist of: A 3000 word maximum project description, including: a. Goals and objectives, b. Review of the relevant literature, c. Expected outcomes, d. Relevance for the game industry, e. A comprehensive timeline. A short CV for each of the applicants. Brief history of current and past support Application Deadline Applications must be submitted no later than October 1st, at 12:00 CET. Email applications to cfp at globalgamejam.org Announcement of Results After review by the Global Game Jam research committee, applicants will get an answer by October 20th, 2009. Global Game Jam Research Proposal Committee ?????? Dr. Marinka Copier ? New Media and Digital Culture at Utrecht University & School of Art and Technology at Utrecht School of the Arts (HKU); Utrecht, the Netherlands ?????? Dr. Katherine Isbister ? Digital Media and Computer Science & Engineering at Polytechnic Institute of New York University; Brooklyn, USA ?????? Dr. Magy Seif El Nasr ? School of Interactive Arts & Technology at Simon Fraser University; Vancouver, Canada _______________________________________________ SIGs-Admin mailing list SIGs-Admin at igda.org http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sigs-admin -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 10:08:24 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:08:24 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players Message-ID: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. Discuss. -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From nathan at studiocypher.com Mon Aug 17 10:39:23 2009 From: nathan at studiocypher.com (Nathan Mishler) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:39:23 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> Okay. Hmm. Define Ghost Players? On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. > > Discuss. > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Nathan Mishler Studio Cypher, LLC "Curious Games for Curious People" http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher (812) 361-5981 From marcus.helm at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 11:46:33 2009 From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:46:33 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0908170846r75b463b2i96aee457f8ff3919@mail.gmail.com> I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games narrative who rarely make their presence known. A ludic term for lurking? hugh On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > Okay. > > Hmm. Define Ghost Players? > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips > wrote: > > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. > > > > Discuss. > > > > -- > > Andrea Phillips > > http://www.aaphillips.com > > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Nathan Mishler > Studio Cypher, LLC > "Curious Games for Curious People" > http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher > (812) 361-5981 > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From dodo at WPI.EDU Mon Aug 17 12:14:45 2009 From: dodo at WPI.EDU (O'Donnell, Dean M) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:14:45 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <4ca6fcda0908170846r75b463b2i96aee457f8ff3919@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com>, <4ca6fcda0908170846r75b463b2i96aee457f8ff3919@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: As used at ARGFest, it was a term denoting "players" who were actually controlled by the PMs. So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a hint as if he just had a brainstorm. Dean ________________________________________ From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Davies [marcus.helm at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:46 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games narrative who rarely make their presence known. A ludic term for lurking? hugh On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > Okay. > > Hmm. Define Ghost Players? > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips > wrote: > > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. > > > > Discuss. > > > > -- > > Andrea Phillips > > http://www.aaphillips.com > > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > > Words * Culture * Interaction > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > > > -- > Nathan Mishler > Studio Cypher, LLC > "Curious Games for Curious People" > http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher > (812) 361-5981 > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 13:49:56 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:49:56 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] It's that (IRC) time of the week ! Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908171049y3a7dfb1bx1b5c34c8141bfc99@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, A quick reminder in-between 2 Internet access outages to remind you gentle folks that today is that day of the week when we gather around a digital cup of tea to tell tales of ARG, creativity and invention ! Come and meet up with us this afternoon at 4PM Central, using your client of choice to get on to our IRC channel. You'll find all the instructions on our wiki at http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats. Totally informal, totally fun, sooo...Come out and play ! Yours truly, T. From judy.tyrer at redstorm.com Mon Aug 17 14:08:08 2009 From: judy.tyrer at redstorm.com (Judy Tyrer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:08:08 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <531CBD868549E64B8EF0EB8F59FF883712F888D9@UBIMAIL2.ubisoft.org> ROFLMAO... they play Ghosts, of course, because as anyone who walks around our offices knows. Space Marines are fake, but Ghosts are real. Sorry, when you spend all day talking about ghosts, it's hard to let a set-up like this go by. For those who don't know, I work on the Ghost Recon series. Judy -----Original Message----- From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Mishler Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:39 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players Okay. Hmm. Define Ghost Players? On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. > > Discuss. > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Nathan Mishler Studio Cypher, LLC "Curious Games for Curious People" http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher (812) 361-5981 _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From dflor71 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:55:20 2009 From: dflor71 at gmail.com (David Flor) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:55:20 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <531CBD868549E64B8EF0EB8F59FF883712F888D9@UBIMAIL2.ubisoft.org> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> <531CBD868549E64B8EF0EB8F59FF883712F888D9@UBIMAIL2.ubisoft.org> Message-ID: <50b4b0580908171155k4642bc96p667667fb71f9b72f@mail.gmail.com> Well I have been known to kill off a character or two... For those of us that weren't at ARGFest, and as much as I'd like to accept that definition, can someone please elaborate on the term for us in the cheap seats, please? :) Tnx & Rgds... David Flor Darklight Interactive On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Judy Tyrer wrote: > ROFLMAO... they play Ghosts, of course, because as anyone who walks > around our offices knows. ?Space Marines are fake, but Ghosts are real. > > > Sorry, when you spend all day talking about ghosts, it's hard to let a > set-up like this go by. ?For those who don't know, I work on the Ghost > Recon series. > > Judy > > -----Original Message----- > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of Nathan Mishler > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players > > Okay. > > Hmm. Define Ghost Players? > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips > wrote: >> The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. >> >> Discuss. >> >> -- >> Andrea Phillips >> http://www.aaphillips.com >> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> Words * Culture * Interaction >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > > > -- > Nathan Mishler > Studio Cypher, LLC > "Curious Games for Curious People" > http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher > (812) 361-5981 > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From btradish at earthlink.net Mon Aug 17 15:08:21 2009 From: btradish at earthlink.net (John Evans) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:08:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players Message-ID: <5341537.1250536101471.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Let's say you want to give 10 hints to 10 different players, and you want the players to put their hints together to come up with a solution. (cf. The Westing Game) However, what if one of those players isn't playing your game any more, because they got bored or circumstances in their life changed; their account may exist, but they're a "ghost player". If your 10th hint is languishing in some in-game message inbox, your players are never going to solve the puzzle. One solution, of course, is redundancy?designing a set of hints so that the information overlaps, and let's say any 5 of the 10 will yield all the necessary information. >So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a hint as if he just had a brainstorm. ...oh, wait, you mean RINGERS. Or "plants". I see. >_> Well...the way I see it, you're providing the players information through a channel that will make them feel as though "one of their own" came up with the solution. They don't feel like the solution was just "handed" to them. However, it's a gamble; if the players figure out that this information source isn't legitimate, they may feel betrayed. (Of course, this could be a good thing; If the information source turns out to be a character that was manipulating the characters for their own ends, the players might enjoy that. "You all did so well, I only had to give you a couple of hints...mwahahahahaha.") In a perfect world (or a perfect game), the players would figure out the solutions to the puzzles on their own. Or, let me put it this way: In a perfect game, the players would never be blocked or frustrated for too long. (What "too long" means is open to debate.) There's a theory that some people enjoy a certain amount of frustration in a puzzle; once they solve it, they experience a sense of triumph. If you believe that, then the "ringer hint" is robbing some player of that triumphant insight. As for me personally, I wouldn't use this tactic. I would rather offer hints through an NPC, but in exchange for something. Perhaps the players have to perform a service or give up something. Perhaps they have to solve a different puzzle for a hint to the first puzzle (I'll leave finding the possible pitfall in this tactic as an exercise to the reader). So, because the players had to "pay", they don't feel betrayed; they had to work for the hint, after all. I was at a live event for Prototype 161 and they had something like this; Each team had a stash of "bloodstones" (little red plastic things), and they could trade the stones for hints. There were also challenges that happened every now and then, like, do 50 pushups and get 5 stones to increase your stash. -- John Evans Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com -----Original Message----- >From: "O'Donnell, Dean M" >Sent: Aug 17, 2009 12:14 PM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players > >As used at ARGFest, it was a term denoting "players" who were actually controlled by the PMs. > >So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a hint as if he just had a brainstorm. > >Dean >________________________________________ >From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Davies [marcus.helm at gmail.com] >Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:46 AM >To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players > >I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games >narrative who rarely make their presence known. > >A ludic term for lurking? > >hugh > > >On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > >> Okay. >> >> Hmm. Define Ghost Players? >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips >> wrote: >> > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. >> > >> > Discuss. >> > >> > -- >> > Andrea Phillips >> > http://www.aaphillips.com >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> > Words * Culture * Interaction >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Mishler >> Studio Cypher, LLC >> "Curious Games for Curious People" >> http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher >> (812) 361-5981 >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >_______________________________________________ >ARG_Discuss mailing list >ARG_Discuss at igda.org >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From nathan at studiocypher.com Mon Aug 17 18:09:42 2009 From: nathan at studiocypher.com (Nathan Mishler) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:09:42 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> <4ca6fcda0908170846r75b463b2i96aee457f8ff3919@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> I am leery of this for several reasons. One of the things we have observed in the playerbase is that players gain social presige (and personal pride) when they either solve a puzzle outright or participate a little bit in noticing something that leads to the solve. If a "ghost player" does either of these things, then you are rewarding these things to someone who doesn't exist. That's both lame and have the potential for a lot of backlash if the players realize that "one of them" isn't real, as seen from the recent furor over the community member who turned out to be a trailhead in disguise. This is of course assuming that your players don't know the person is fake. If it's an obvious PM controlled participant in the story (confidant to the players) that's a little better. Still, I'd try to make it so at least someone real has the opportunity to notice this hint and bring it to the players. Don't deprive them, enable them! On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM, O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > As used at ARGFest, it was a term denoting "players" who were actually controlled by the PMs. > > So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a hint as if he just had a brainstorm. > > Dean > ________________________________________ > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Davies [marcus.helm at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:46 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players > > I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games > narrative who rarely make their presence known. > > A ludic term for lurking? > > hugh > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > >> Okay. >> >> Hmm. Define Ghost Players? >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips >> wrote: >> > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. >> > >> > Discuss. >> > >> > -- >> > Andrea Phillips >> > http://www.aaphillips.com >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> > Words * Culture * Interaction >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Mishler >> Studio Cypher, LLC >> "Curious Games for Curious People" >> http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher >> (812) 361-5981 >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Nathan Mishler Studio Cypher, LLC "Curious Games for Curious People" http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher (812) 361-5981 From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Mon Aug 17 18:23:30 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:23:30 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think it's easier to have characters deliver hints or push the players via story elements. We used "ghost players" in Art of the Heist, but they didn't mingle with the players and they weren't used to give hints. Maybe they weren't technically ghost players, I don't know, but we needed to model behavior for the retrieval missions, so we basically executed an entire mission inside the story, with outside characters coming in to help Ian and Nisha. This basically set up the model for the kind of help they would need at missions and how to participate. I think most all the players understood what we were doing while it was going on and there was no backlash that I am aware of, but I guess technically our helpers were NPC rather than "Ghost Players." -Mike On 8/17/09 6:09 PM, "Nathan Mishler" wrote: I am leery of this for several reasons. One of the things we have observed in the playerbase is that players gain social presige (and personal pride) when they either solve a puzzle outright or participate a little bit in noticing something that leads to the solve. If a "ghost player" does either of these things, then you are rewarding these things to someone who doesn't exist. That's both lame and have the potential for a lot of backlash if the players realize that "one of them" isn't real, as seen from the recent furor over the community member who turned out to be a trailhead in disguise. This is of course assuming that your players don't know the person is fake. If it's an obvious PM controlled participant in the story (confidant to the players) that's a little better. Still, I'd try to make it so at least someone real has the opportunity to notice this hint and bring it to the players. Don't deprive them, enable them! On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM, O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > As used at ARGFest, it was a term denoting "players" who were actually controlled by the PMs. > > So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a hint as if he just had a brainstorm. > > Dean > ________________________________________ > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Davies [marcus.helm at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:46 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players > > I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games > narrative who rarely make their presence known. > > A ludic term for lurking? > > hugh > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > >> Okay. >> >> Hmm. Define Ghost Players? >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips >> wrote: >> > The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. >> > >> > Discuss. >> > >> > -- >> > Andrea Phillips >> > http://www.aaphillips.com >> > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >> > Words * Culture * Interaction >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Mishler >> Studio Cypher, LLC >> "Curious Games for Curious People" >> http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher >> (812) 361-5981 >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > -- Nathan Mishler Studio Cypher, LLC "Curious Games for Curious People" http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher (812) 361-5981 _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From scpeters at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 18:29:16 2009 From: scpeters at gmail.com (Steve Peters) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:29:16 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I really agree with this. Those of you who know me hopefully know that I'd rather cut off a limb than have someone post a nudge in any player space, posing as another player. It potentially robs a player of the absolute thrill of solving something for everyone. Plus, it makes no sense to me. It's like planning an elaborate surprise birthday party for someone, and then, when you're outside your apartment door, you just can't contain yourself any longer and tell them that there's a huge party on the other side of the door waiting for them. I mean, if you're gonna go to all the trouble of planning the surprise, why on earth would you ruin the surprise for them??? If they're stuck, solve it on the design side. SP -------------------------------- Steve Peters Founder, No Mimes Media http://www.nomimes.com mobile: 818.422.4898 steve at nomimes.com twitter: vpisteve 34.183042,-118.281252 On 8/17/09 3:09 PM, "Nathan Mishler" wrote: > I am leery of this for several reasons. > > One of the things we have observed in the playerbase is that players > gain social presige (and personal pride) when they either solve a > puzzle outright or participate a little bit in noticing something that > leads to the solve. > > If a "ghost player" does either of these things, then you are > rewarding these things to someone who doesn't exist. That's both lame > and have the potential for a lot of backlash if the players realize > that "one of them" isn't real, as seen from the recent furor over the > community member who turned out to be a trailhead in disguise. > > This is of course assuming that your players don't know the person is > fake. If it's an obvious PM controlled participant in the story > (confidant to the players) that's a little better. Still, I'd try to > make it so at least someone real has the opportunity to notice this > hint and bring it to the players. Don't deprive them, enable them! > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM, O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: >> As used at ARGFest, it was a term denoting "players" who were actually >> controlled by the PMs. >> >> So if the real players got stuck on a puzzle, the Ghost Player could send a >> hint as if he just had a brainstorm. >> >> Dean >> ________________________________________ >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf >> Of Hugh Davies [marcus.helm at gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:46 AM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players >> >> I'm assuming Ghost Player are those uncommitted followers of a games >> narrative who rarely make their presence known. >> >> A ludic term for lurking? >> >> hugh >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Nathan Mishler >> wrote: >> >>> Okay. >>> >>> Hmm. Define Ghost Players? >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Andrea Phillips >>> wrote: >>>> The topic of "Ghost Players" came up at ARGfest. >>>> >>>> Discuss. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andrea Phillips >>>> http://www.aaphillips.com >>>> AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia >>>> Words * Culture * Interaction >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nathan Mishler >>> Studio Cypher, LLC >>> "Curious Games for Curious People" >>> http://www.twitter.com/StudioCypher >>> (812) 361-5981 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > > From vladiweb at googlemail.com Mon Aug 17 19:12:06 2009 From: vladiweb at googlemail.com (Vlad Alex) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:12:06 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players (Vlad Alex) Message-ID: As far my experiences as players, the "ghost players" are often used in commercial and/or strong scheduled ARGs, where you have to let players to solve the problems and puzzles in defined time period. The negative side effect of using "ghost players" is though, the usual players are sensitive folk. And if they feel beeing betrayed by PMs with not so real co-players, they can easily get mad. In Star Trek ARG it was used accurately, even if a little bit apparently: at least two twitter, @bevbrecher and @aliceforrest700 were soon identified by players as "ghost player", giving hints and summarizing the plot. But since they weren't really penetrant in their "omni-presence", they were tolerated by players. In the cause of Junko Junsui it seems to be a little bit too offensive: some players (as I suppose) are such "ghost players" (perhaps more than just this: they are "PMs in players skin"). And this can surely cause some demotivation. or desorientation. Or (de)constructiv anarchic agression towards the story. In my humble experience as a amateur PM I was confronted with a problem to send to 10 people 10 parts of a link. They all should be present, otherwise the missing part will cause the link failure. But I wanted to avoid the "Ghost player" method, so I had to be assured, everybody of these 10 people can be reached, and I gave every player the name of the next to make this chain complete. Even if this method is lamish, complicated and confusing for all participants, it's still better than using of fictional co-players imho. (But I did at that time another crime: to avoid another people thinking, I were the PM, I included myself in this chain, as a player - I know now, after all the years, it was not pretty acting. Mea maxima culpa, so to say :-)) From brooke at giantmice.com Mon Aug 17 20:19:41 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:19:41 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908170708lca343c2tc733497e67ad9610@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908170739x341ae4br679afdb466840894@mail.gmail.com> <4ca6fcda0908170846r75b463b2i96aee457f8ff3919@mail.gmail.com> <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20650652-2F1C-4B6C-B3C5-F5716B40CA86@giantmice.com> There's been a lot of good stuff being said on this, but I think my thoughts were summed up in one sentence... On Aug 17, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Nathan Mishler wrote: > Don't deprive them, enable them! In the midst of play, with players needing help... I can't think of an instance where ghost players would enable players without depriving them. If something came up and a ghost player would make the experience better for the players than something that came from within the game... maybe. But it just seems like far more hassle (and risk) than it's, ultimately, worth. That said, using fairly obvious NPC/Ghost Peeps to model behavior *before* the players get to a point where the need help is a valid approach... especially in a complex situation where an example would be welcomed in just about any other sort of environment. I think that players are hip to that and it can work for that reason. You just gotta keep the players needs in mind. And... don't deprive them, enable them! (nicely said Nathan :)) From bclark at gmdstudios.com Tue Aug 18 09:18:42 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:18:42 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: References: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <74A67F9E9846407CB5C36EE4212DBFCC@Tricorder> > We used "ghost players" in Art of the Heist Naw, those weren't "ghost players" -- everyone knew they were fictional characters. The specific presentation that spurred this conversation at ARGfest was from a group that had some of their people participating in live groups, but with instructions to push the group along in a particular direction. The "real players" would have thought those were other "real players" up until the moment they had the party at the end (when they did reveal that those "ghost players" were cast members.) They did this because they had rather aggressive timelines of interdependencies, so the "ghost players" were a way of controlling pacing. For me, the big issue this introduces is actually the potential mistrust among players. From brooke at giantmice.com Tue Aug 18 10:16:56 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:16:56 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping Message-ID: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com> If you have somehow avoided all the "vote for me!" cries working their way through twitter and various blogs, then you might not be aware that SXSW's panel picker went live yesterday. There are 30 or so panels categorized under ARG but I keep hearing from friends of panels tucked away in other places. So... do you have something up for selection? do you know of a panel that'll probably be awesome but may fly under our radar? do you just want to tell us we should vote for your best friend's cousin's coworker's wife? Me? I've got two, both ARG specific (go figure) up there: http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/index/interactive/q:Brooke+Thompson The (R)evolution of Alternate Reality Games http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/4006 This would be a reworking of a presentation that I've given to corporate clients that details the growth and trends of Alternate Reality Gaming (and similar). It's sort of an introduction to ARGs by seeing the type of stuff that's been done in the space and what various groups seem to be talking about. To the Streets: ARGs and Real World Play http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3958 The idea here is to bring together a producer, a designer, and a player and have a conversation on live events. So often these are the things that get the attention and make the press - but why is that? is there more to them than just the press? what do they offer the player (and online community)? what goes into creating them? etc etc I've put together a blog post on some other panels but I'm certain that I'm missing some of you (sorry!) - let me know and I'll add your stuff to the list. http://www.giantmice.com/archives/2009/08/vote-for-me-vote-for-me/ (and yes, i know the site needs work... new templates will be going up later today or tomorrow but, personally, I'm going to miss the ad placeholders ;)) From marcus.helm at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:17:58 2009 From: marcus.helm at gmail.com (Hugh Davies) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:17:58 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <74A67F9E9846407CB5C36EE4212DBFCC@Tricorder> References: <8fc5b2700908171509p1ef4c900sd5a226f34616d528@mail.gmail.com> <74A67F9E9846407CB5C36EE4212DBFCC@Tricorder> Message-ID: <4ca6fcda0908180817u4596857agb514576b0d7a2947@mail.gmail.com> Now i know what they are, I agree that there are problems with Ghost players. Between ghost players and characters, you kind of end up with an ARG that can play itself. And surely as a player, its more compelling to be contacted by character than another player, especially if you somehow find out that that player was a Ghost player at which point you risk feeling dumb and manipulated. h On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Brian Clark wrote: > > We used "ghost players" in Art of the Heist > > Naw, those weren't "ghost players" -- everyone knew they were fictional > characters. > > The specific presentation that spurred this conversation at ARGfest was > from > a group that had some of their people participating in live groups, but > with > instructions to push the group along in a particular direction. The "real > players" would have thought those were other "real players" up until the > moment they had the party at the end (when they did reveal that those > "ghost > players" were cast members.) They did this because they had rather > aggressive timelines of interdependencies, so the "ghost players" were a > way > of controlling pacing. > > For me, the big issue this introduces is actually the potential mistrust > among players. > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From annette at internation.co.uk Tue Aug 18 11:18:23 2009 From: annette at internation.co.uk (Annette Mees) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:18:23 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping In-Reply-To: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com> References: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com> Message-ID: Coney has put two forward: Beyond ?Choose Your Own Adventure?: Theatre meets Games http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3953 A Small Town Anywhere is a theatre show with no actors ? instead the narrative is created with playing audience. Before the live event, players are engaged interactively to write their stories into the show, their choices making each show unique. The event architecture has potential for multi-platform storytelling beyond theatre. Let?s Make A Brilliant Game Now! http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3682 Everyone in the room and on the Twitter stream collaborates in making a pervasive game in the session. The panel will use their extensive experience in collaborative game design to facilitate the process. Along the way we tackle questions around collaboration, community authorship and ownership, scalability of live interaction. 2009/8/18 Brooke Thompson : > If you have somehow avoided all the "vote for me!" cries working their way > through twitter and various blogs, then you might not be aware that SXSW's > panel picker went live yesterday. There are 30 or so panels categorized > under ARG but I keep hearing from friends of panels tucked away in other > places. > > So... do you have something up for selection? do you know of a panel that'll > probably be awesome but may fly under our radar? do you just want to tell us > we should vote for your best friend's cousin's coworker's wife? > > > Me? I've got two, both ARG specific (go figure) up there: > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/index/interactive/q:Brooke+Thompson > > The (R)evolution of Alternate Reality Games > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/4006 > This would be a reworking of a presentation that I've given to corporate > clients that details the growth and trends of Alternate Reality Gaming (and > similar). It's sort of an introduction to ARGs by seeing the type of stuff > that's been done in the space and what various groups seem to be talking > about. > > To the Streets: ARGs and Real World Play > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3958 > The idea here is to bring together a producer, a designer, and a player and > have a conversation on live events. So often these are the things that get > the attention and make the press - but why is that? is there more to them > than just the press? what do they offer the player (and online community)? > what goes into creating them? etc etc > > I've put together a blog post on some other panels but I'm certain that I'm > missing some of you (sorry!) - let me know and I'll add your stuff to the > list. http://www.giantmice.com/archives/2009/08/vote-for-me-vote-for-me/ > > (and yes, i know the site needs work... new templates will be going up later > today or tomorrow but, personally, I'm going to miss the ad placeholders ;)) > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From mmonello at campfirenyc.com Tue Aug 18 11:20:52 2009 From: mmonello at campfirenyc.com (Michael Monello) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:20:52 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping In-Reply-To: References: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com>, Message-ID: What is/who are Coney? Best, Mike --- Michael Monello Partner/ECD Campfire http://www.campfirenyc.com 212-612-9600 ________________________________________ From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Annette Mees [annette at internation.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:18 AM To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping Coney has put two forward: Beyond ?Choose Your Own Adventure?: Theatre meets Games http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3953 A Small Town Anywhere is a theatre show with no actors ? instead the narrative is created with playing audience. Before the live event, players are engaged interactively to write their stories into the show, their choices making each show unique. The event architecture has potential for multi-platform storytelling beyond theatre. Let?s Make A Brilliant Game Now! http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3682 Everyone in the room and on the Twitter stream collaborates in making a pervasive game in the session. The panel will use their extensive experience in collaborative game design to facilitate the process. Along the way we tackle questions around collaboration, community authorship and ownership, scalability of live interaction. From annette at internation.co.uk Tue Aug 18 11:38:50 2009 From: annette at internation.co.uk (Annette Mees) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:38:50 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping In-Reply-To: References: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com> Message-ID: Coney are an agency for adventure and play. We are seen as pioneers in British theatre and arts for integration of digital media and game-design into the live experience, and for making work that offers the potential of total immersion and engagement for a playing audience. Coney makes play which is live and responsive, interactive and participatory, using whatever come to hand and casting you, the audience, in the leading role. There is more information on us on: http://youhavefoundconey.net/ Our work straddles several genres and has been called theatre, ARGs, art, pervasive games, multi-platform story telling etc. We like all of those terms and leave it to others to define exactly what we do. 2009/8/18 Michael Monello : > What is/who are Coney? > > Best, > > Mike > --- > Michael Monello > Partner/ECD Campfire > http://www.campfirenyc.com > 212-612-9600 > ________________________________________ > From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Annette Mees [annette at internation.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:18 AM > To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG > Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping > > Coney has put two forward: > > Beyond ?Choose Your Own Adventure?: Theatre meets Games > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3953 > A Small Town Anywhere is a theatre show with no actors ? instead the > narrative is created with playing audience. Before the live event, > players are engaged interactively to write their stories into the > show, their choices making each show unique. The event architecture > has potential for multi-platform storytelling beyond theatre. > > Let?s Make A Brilliant Game Now! > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3682 > Everyone in the room and on the Twitter stream collaborates in making > a pervasive game in the session. The panel will use their extensive > experience in collaborative game design to facilitate the process. > Along the way we tackle questions around collaboration, community > authorship and ownership, scalability of live interaction. > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From camherst at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 12:11:11 2009 From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:11:11 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players Message-ID: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> I'll side with Steve on this topic. To me, "Ghost Players" are a technique that is just a workaround to a problem that could have been resolved on the design side of the equation rather than in the implementation side. The technique comes across to me as: 1) Failing to understand one's audience (in terms of buy-in and puzzle complexity) 2) Failing to build redundancies into distributing across the game's social network 3) An inability to adapt or be flexible to the changing nature of the game 'stage'. #1 and #2 are issues that can be resolved in the early stages of design, with the understanding that they will evolve as a function of time. #3 is an issue that needs to be accounted for prior to run-time and addressed as part of any contingency design. Signed, Christopher From naomi.alderman at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 12:27:56 2009 From: naomi.alderman at gmail.com (Naomi Alderman) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:27:56 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How about Imaginary Ghost Players, as a tactic of last resort? Where the players simply haven't done what you needed them to do, and yes you've learned valuable lessons for next time about puzzle design but nonetheless you really do need *someone* to have emailed your main character (the brunette in distress) to tell her the password to the secret file... In that totally hypothetical situation, I might hypothetically say that one could legitimately write a blog that started "I had an email this morning from one of you - I think it was one of you? - suggesting that I try the initials of all my favourite authors in alphabetical order as the password. And it worked!" Or some such. Hypothetically. Although honestly at this point if you're running a "so-and-so needs your help" game, it's probably better to just have so-and-so figure it out herself. I agree that actually creating sockpuppet players and inserting them into player discussions is a way to lose trust. People work it out and then they feel irritated. Or they don't work it out, and then they feel stupid: where, if you're running a puzzle-based game, it's really important to try to leave your players feeling clever, not stupid. - Naomi On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Christopher Amherst wrote: > I'll side with Steve on this topic. > > To me, "Ghost Players" are a technique that is just a workaround to a > problem that could have been resolved on the design side of the > equation rather than in the implementation side. > > The technique comes across to me as: > 1) Failing to understand one's audience (in terms of buy-in and puzzle > complexity) > 2) Failing to build redundancies into distributing across the game's > social network > 3) An inability to adapt or be flexible to the changing nature of the > game 'stage'. > > #1 and #2 are issues that can be resolved in the early stages of > design, with the understanding that > they will evolve as a function of time. > > #3 is an issue that needs to be accounted for prior to run-time and > addressed as part of any contingency design. > > Signed, > Christopher > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From libfli at aol.com Tue Aug 18 12:44:58 2009 From: libfli at aol.com (libfli at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:44:58 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: References: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBEE3A5B3E3E18-1108-418F@webmail-dh41.sysops.aol.com> imo there are still many in-game in-story ways to deal w/that situation.? perhaps designers need to head into production with a handful of back-up mechanics in case they have unsolvable puzzles or the like - and although "trust" and perhaps "making the players feel stupid" is an issue when you break into the player space with these ghost players or whatever, i think the bigger issue is making the players feel not needed.?? someone else already pointed this out - (can't remember who - sorry) but as soon as you start solving your own puzzles or revealing your own secrets, there is really no reason for your players to stay engaged.? yeah, they can continue to watch the world and story, but you've taken away the reason many come to these experiences. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Alderman To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG Sent: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:27 am Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players How about Imaginary Ghost Players, as a tactic of last resort? Where the players simply haven't done what you needed them to do, and yes you've learned valuable lessons for next time about puzzle design but nonetheless you really do need *someone* to have emailed your main character (the brunette in distress) to tell her the password to the secret file... In that totally hypothetical situation, I might hypothetically say that one could legitimately write a blog that started "I had an email this morning from one of you - I think it was one of you? - suggesting that I try the initials of all my favourite authors in alphabetical order as the password. And it worked!" Or some such. Hypothetically. Although honestly at this point if you're running a "so-and-so needs your help" game, it's probably better to just have so-and-so figure it out herself. I agree that actually creating sockpuppet players and inserting them into player discussions is a way to lose trust. People work it out and then they feel irritated. Or they don't work it out, and then they feel stupid: where, if you're running a puzzle-based game, it's really important to try to leave your players feeling clever, not stupid. - Naomi On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Christopher Amherst wrote: > I'll side with Steve on this topic. > > To me, "Ghost Players" are a technique that is just a workaround to a > problem that could have been resolved on the design side of the > equation rather than in the implementation side. > > The technique comes across to me as: > 1) Failing to understand one's audience (in terms of buy-in and puzzle > complexity) > 2) Failing to build redundancies into distributing across the game's > social network > 3) An inability to adapt or be flexible to the changing nature of the > game 'stage'. > > #1 and #2 are issues that can be resolved in the early stages of > design, with the understanding that > they will evolve as a function of time. > > #3 is an issue that needs to be accounted for prior to run-time and > addressed as part of any contingency design. > > Signed, > Christopher > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > _______________________________________________ ARG_Discuss mailing list ARG_Discuss at igda.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From jaybushman at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 13:26:04 2009 From: jaybushman at gmail.com (Jay Bushman) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:26:04 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping In-Reply-To: References: <67AF1423-7322-40F2-8C4E-38E229C05638@giantmice.com> Message-ID: <376a0010908181026i48ac1e16g6c3dbfcb6793e3a0@mail.gmail.com> Annette, that sounds awesome. Looking forward to checking out more. I've got a panel submitted - what I think I learned from last year was that abrasive, annoying panel titles seem to have a better chance at getting in. And so... TRANSMEDIA: IT'S THE STORY, STUPID: http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3653 On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Annette Mees wrote: > Coney ?are an agency for adventure and play. We are seen as pioneers > in British theatre and arts for integration of digital media and > game-design into the live experience, and for making work that offers > the potential of total immersion and engagement for a playing > audience. Coney makes play which is live and responsive, interactive > and participatory, using whatever come to hand and casting you, the > audience, in the leading role. > > There is more information on us on: > http://youhavefoundconey.net/ > > Our work straddles several genres and has been called theatre, ARGs, > art, pervasive games, multi-platform story telling etc. We like all of > those terms and leave it to others to define exactly what we do. > > 2009/8/18 Michael Monello : >> What is/who are Coney? >> >> Best, >> >> Mike >> --- >> Michael Monello >> Partner/ECD Campfire >> http://www.campfirenyc.com >> 212-612-9600 >> ________________________________________ >> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Annette Mees [annette at internation.co.uk] >> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:18 AM >> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG >> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] SXSW Panel Pimping >> >> Coney has put two forward: >> >> Beyond ?Choose Your Own Adventure?: Theatre meets Games >> http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3953 >> A Small Town Anywhere is a theatre show with no actors ? instead the >> narrative is created with playing audience. Before the live event, >> players are engaged interactively to write their stories into the >> show, their choices making each show unique. The event architecture >> has potential for multi-platform storytelling beyond theatre. >> >> Let?s Make A Brilliant Game Now! >> http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/3682 >> Everyone in the room and on the Twitter stream collaborates in making >> a pervasive game in the session. The panel will use their extensive >> experience in collaborative game design to facilitate the process. >> Along the way we tackle questions around collaboration, community >> authorship and ownership, scalability of live interaction. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From kim.plowright at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 13:48:03 2009 From: kim.plowright at gmail.com (Kim Plowright) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:48:03 +0100 Subject: [arg_discuss] Post Mortem Examples? In-Reply-To: References: <45055292129975217496501561677541371007-Webmail@me.com> <77766957112137269284482271434130598203-Webmail@me.com> <768b40560907141459i5b2d6059t341c5eae14e643c7@mail.gmail.com> <672234aa57f0b58bc9f658a44a5f3ceb.squirrel@webmail.wendydespain.com> Message-ID: Right, finally did this: http://www.mildlydiverting.com/afteractionreview/ Document template, how-to guide, and links for more info. Enjoy! 2009/7/15 Kim Plowright : > Rogerwilco. It's not arg specific, but useful nonetheless - it was adopted > on difficult projects in my old dept at the BBC, and worked really well. > > Will try and find a few moments in next week to add the glossary and upload > it somewhere useful. > > > > 2009/7/15 Wendy Despain >> >> I'd sure like to see it, Kim. :-) >> >> I'm really a fan of coming up with some best practices for running ARG >> teams. >> >> Wendy Despain >> quantumcontent.com >> >> >> On Tue, July 14, 2009 4:08 pm, Kim Plowright wrote: >> > I have a format document for 'after action reviews' I pulled together >> > ages >> > ago, if that would help? Good for debriefing teams who work on stuff, >> > I'd >> > need to write up a bit on how to run the meeting it was designed to >> > document >> > tho... >> > >> > Shout if it would be useful. >> > >> > 2009/7/14 Mike Cox >> > >> >> There's a post mortem available for Operation: Sleeper Cell here: >> >> http://www.law37.com/postmortem.html I don't know whether it's quite >> >> what >> >> you want, but we made it available in the hope that it would be >> >> useful for >> >> someone. >> >> >> >> cheers >> >> >> >> Mike Cox >> >> >> >> >> >> blog: www.palecomic.com >> >> skype: mikeyjcox >> >> twitter: mikeyj >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM, D B Wall wrote: >> >> >> >> > Hi all, I'm looking for examples of ARG post mortems, as I'm >> >> trying to >> >> > write one. I found the case studies links on Argology, but >> >> they're... >> >> case >> >> > studies, and I'm looking for something a bit more mechanical and >> >> to the >> >> > point. Any suggestions? >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARG_Discuss mailing list >> > ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > >> >> >> Wendy Despain >> quantumcontent.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > From camherst at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 16:18:02 2009 From: camherst at gmail.com (Christopher Amherst) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:18:02 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 17: Ghost Players In-Reply-To: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <19849af80908180911u7abf1a42te319459983cf52bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19849af80908191318s5e173431pa55d84c53b72f83@mail.gmail.com> Naomi Alderman commented: >How about Imaginary Ghost Players, as a tactic of last resort? Where the >players simply haven't done what you needed them to do, and yes you've >learned valuable lessons for next time about puzzle design but nonetheless >you really do need *someone* to have emailed your main character (the >brunette in distress) to tell her the password to the secret file... Personally, I'd still hedge on the side that there may be multiple ways to resolve that on the design side. In the hypothetical case, if the main character had a 'friend' (another NPC), the friend could provide a hint or two where necessary. In that situation, you've built into the design of your narrative, someone that players may have interacted with and who is a known quantity in terms of their connection to the main character (as a overt NPC). Christopher From mandersen at argn.com Wed Aug 19 21:57:03 2009 From: mandersen at argn.com (Michael Andersen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:57:03 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Request for Feedback on ARGNet Message-ID: Hey all, In a few weeks, I'm going to be taking over as owner and senior editor of ARGNet. Jonathan has left some pretty big shoes to fill, so I figured I'd cheat and ask for advice on how to help the website improve. Pursuant to that, I thought this would be a good chance to ask for some feedback on the website, and the kinds of stories you'd like to see more (or less) of in the future. What can we do to improve, and what have we been doing right? From theineffabelle at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 13:19:23 2009 From: theineffabelle at gmail.com (IneffaBelle) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:19:23 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Online Project Management Software for ARGs Message-ID: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> I'm looking to invest in some project management software for developing ARGs and wanted to know what people are using and what they like and don't like about their current solutions. I am looking at basecamp with some possible addons and was wondering if anyone was using that (with what addons) and how that was working for them. I was also looking at http://comindwork.com which looks pretty good. Thoughts? Thanks! -Lauren Soffer http://ineffabelle.com From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 14:25:10 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:25:10 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Online Project Management Software for ARGs In-Reply-To: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> References: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908201125y668d7b31p824fc64418a90676@mail.gmail.com> After having worked with Basecamp for the Operation Sleeper Cell project, I moved to ProjectPier (an open source, free alternative to Basecamp) for really complex cooperative projects as well as managing projects for my school. Maybe you could give it a look ? It's got a few quirks and kinks to work out here and there, but all in all a very decent replacement when you're on a budget : http://www.projectpier.org/ Let us know what you think ! T. 2009/8/20 IneffaBelle > I'm looking to invest in some project management software for developing > ARGs and wanted to know what people are using and what they like and don't > like about their current solutions. I am looking at basecamp with some > possible addons and was wondering if anyone was using that (with what > addons) and how that was working for them. I was also looking at > http://comindwork.com which looks pretty good. Thoughts? > > Thanks! > > -Lauren Soffer > http://ineffabelle.com > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From brooke at giantmice.com Thu Aug 20 15:07:36 2009 From: brooke at giantmice.com (Brooke Thompson) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:07:36 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Online Project Management Software for ARGs In-Reply-To: <25de1e4f0908201125y668d7b31p824fc64418a90676@mail.gmail.com> References: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> <25de1e4f0908201125y668d7b31p824fc64418a90676@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've worked with both Basecamp & ProjectPier and they're both great at what they do... but I'm not sure that's "project management". Their strength lies in their asynchronous communication system which is a mix of a message board and mailing list and easily allows you to upload & share files which are attached to specific messages. As project management? I'm always a bit disappointed. Their task management is minimum at best. As such, they are not planning tools and tend to be something extra for the project manager to stay on top of in order to help keep a remote workforce on the same page. And, for that, they seem to be about as good as anything that I've used. I haven't tried comindwork, so can't comment on that. On Aug 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Thomas Maillioux wrote: > After having worked with Basecamp for the Operation Sleeper Cell > project, I > moved to ProjectPier (an open source, free alternative to Basecamp) > for > really complex cooperative projects as well as managing projects for > my > school. Maybe you could give it a look ? It's got a few quirks and > kinks to > work out here and there, but all in all a very decent replacement when > you're on a budget : http://www.projectpier.org/ > > Let us know what you think ! > T. > > 2009/8/20 IneffaBelle > >> I'm looking to invest in some project management software for >> developing >> ARGs and wanted to know what people are using and what they like >> and don't >> like about their current solutions. I am looking at basecamp with >> some >> possible addons and was wondering if anyone was using that (with what >> addons) and how that was working for them. I was also looking at >> http://comindwork.com which looks pretty good. Thoughts? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Lauren Soffer >> http://ineffabelle.com >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss From jorgeguberte at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 22:03:03 2009 From: jorgeguberte at gmail.com (Jorge Guberte) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:03:03 -0300 Subject: [arg_discuss] Online Project Management Software for ARGs In-Reply-To: References: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> <25de1e4f0908201125y668d7b31p824fc64418a90676@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: OpenAtrium is a new tool, based on Drupal, free and open-source. I tested it a few days ago and apparently is very good. Their website says: "Open Atrium is an intranet in a box that has group spaces to allow different teams to have their own conversations. It comes with six features - a blog, a wiki, a calendar, a to do list, a shoutbox, and a dashboard to manage it all." http://openatrium.com 2009/8/20, Brooke Thompson : > I've worked with both Basecamp & ProjectPier and they're both great at > what they do... but I'm not sure that's "project management". Their > strength lies in their asynchronous communication system which is a > mix of a message board and mailing list and easily allows you to > upload & share files which are attached to specific messages. > > > As project management? I'm always a bit disappointed. Their task > management is minimum at best. As such, they are not planning tools > and tend to be something extra for the project manager to stay on top > of in order to help keep a remote workforce on the same page. And, > for that, they seem to be about as good as anything that I've used. > > I haven't tried comindwork, so can't comment on that. > > > > > > On Aug 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Thomas Maillioux wrote: > >> After having worked with Basecamp for the Operation Sleeper Cell >> project, I >> moved to ProjectPier (an open source, free alternative to Basecamp) >> for >> really complex cooperative projects as well as managing projects for >> my >> school. Maybe you could give it a look ? It's got a few quirks and >> kinks to >> work out here and there, but all in all a very decent replacement when >> you're on a budget : http://www.projectpier.org/ >> >> Let us know what you think ! >> T. >> >> 2009/8/20 IneffaBelle >> >>> I'm looking to invest in some project management software for >>> developing >>> ARGs and wanted to know what people are using and what they like >>> and don't >>> like about their current solutions. I am looking at basecamp with >>> some >>> possible addons and was wondering if anyone was using that (with what >>> addons) and how that was working for them. I was also looking at >>> http://comindwork.com which looks pretty good. Thoughts? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -Lauren Soffer >>> http://ineffabelle.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARG_Discuss mailing list >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From julien at extralab.fr Fri Aug 21 05:28:08 2009 From: julien at extralab.fr (Julien Aubert) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:28:08 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Online Project Management Software for ARGs In-Reply-To: References: <6616C05F-FC4D-40B6-82FA-608BEE0CFEB5@gmail.com> <25de1e4f0908201125y668d7b31p824fc64418a90676@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46c4cdce0908210228k5c8186bcna5042e17a3bad812@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, I agree with Brooke. I'm not sure these are project management tools, maybe more collaboration tools. In this category, I can help. I used Basecamp many months for a project with an American and an Irish team. It didn't meet my expectations. In my opinion, if you use some old tools in addition to some new ones you can do a best job and keep a good security level. The Google suite do a pretty nice job. Creating a Google site let members not only share Gcalendars, Gdocs..., but you can also upload some files (I don't know the limits). Only invited members have acces to the site and so the docs. Thomas and I recently tryed to work more efficiently with calendar. Events are editable by everyone who share it. So, in addition to meetings and milestones, we share our daily activity, interesting games to have a look at, links to docs we are working on, maps of the places we are going to. In addition, micro-blogging sites can be fantastic to let the al lteam updated about each members activity. You can use Yammer which is a Twitter for corporations. This tool is worth a look because it provides a rich privative environment and because there is a FF plugin, a desktop app and an iPhone app. Although, I know some friends of mine collaborate on a single protected Twitter account. They have all the logins and because it is protected, only them can see the stream. Have a good day --------- julien aubert http://www.faismoijouer.com +33618931813 @juli3n On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Jorge Guberte wrote: > OpenAtrium is a new tool, based on Drupal, free and open-source. I > tested it a few days ago and apparently is very good. > Their website says: "Open Atrium is an intranet in a box that has > group spaces to allow different teams to have their own conversations. > It comes with six features - a blog, a wiki, a calendar, a to do list, > a shoutbox, and a dashboard to manage it all." > > http://openatrium.com > > 2009/8/20, Brooke Thompson : > > I've worked with both Basecamp & ProjectPier and they're both great at > > what they do... but I'm not sure that's "project management". Their > > strength lies in their asynchronous communication system which is a > > mix of a message board and mailing list and easily allows you to > > upload & share files which are attached to specific messages. > > > > > > As project management? I'm always a bit disappointed. Their task > > management is minimum at best. As such, they are not planning tools > > and tend to be something extra for the project manager to stay on top > > of in order to help keep a remote workforce on the same page. And, > > for that, they seem to be about as good as anything that I've used. > > > > I haven't tried comindwork, so can't comment on that. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Thomas Maillioux wrote: > > > >> After having worked with Basecamp for the Operation Sleeper Cell > >> project, I > >> moved to ProjectPier (an open source, free alternative to Basecamp) > >> for > >> really complex cooperative projects as well as managing projects for > >> my > >> school. Maybe you could give it a look ? It's got a few quirks and > >> kinks to > >> work out here and there, but all in all a very decent replacement when > >> you're on a budget : http://www.projectpier.org/ > >> > >> Let us know what you think ! > >> T. > >> > >> 2009/8/20 IneffaBelle > >> > >>> I'm looking to invest in some project management software for > >>> developing > >>> ARGs and wanted to know what people are using and what they like > >>> and don't > >>> like about their current solutions. I am looking at basecamp with > >>> some > >>> possible addons and was wondering if anyone was using that (with what > >>> addons) and how that was working for them. I was also looking at > >>> http://comindwork.com which looks pretty good. Thoughts? > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> -Lauren Soffer > >>> http://ineffabelle.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARG_Discuss mailing list > >> ARG_Discuss at igda.org > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARG_Discuss mailing list > > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss > From andrhia at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 13:07:15 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:07:15 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Show & Tell Message-ID: <5c799fd60908211007xc2dedabq18f6311b505ec500@mail.gmail.com> I'm always wishing people would do more pointing to the stuff they're working on while it's running, so hey, let me walk the talk! I've been brought into the 2012 movie campaign. The real trip down the rabbit hole hasn't quite begun yet, and there is quite a lot of world-building that was done by clever people who were there before me (I'd hate to take credit where it wasn't due) but hey, take a look: http://www.theihc.com -- most particularly http://www.theihc.com/election :) -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From shad at shadclark.com Sun Aug 23 14:44:59 2009 From: shad at shadclark.com (Shad) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:44:59 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] Show & Tell Message-ID: Great job, Andrea! I started clicking around the other night and really enjoyed all I discovered. The Charlie Frost site is particularly entertaining. I just registered for the election. :) From shad at shadclark.com Sun Aug 23 14:39:38 2009 From: shad at shadclark.com (Shad) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:39:38 -0700 Subject: [arg_discuss] An introduction Message-ID: I just wanted to drop a note to introduce myself to the group. I meant to introduce myself sooner as I've been lurking for a couple of busy months. Anyway, my name is Shad. And I'm a writer and filmmaker. To support the habit, I've been doing contract writing for EA for console games. Since I'm a fan of ARGs, I started digging around and discovered this list. The more I've learned about the writer's typical role in console games, the more it seems there's greater potential to flex creative muscles in ARGs. (Correct me if I'm wrong!) Ultimately, I think ARGs harness incredibly exciting potential and I'm eager to see where I can fit in the community and where ARGs can fit in my own projects. I'm here to learn and make connections, and I look forward to meeting and chatting with everyone. Cheers, Shad www.shadclark.com From asirangelo at yahoo.com.br Sun Aug 23 23:15:48 2009 From: asirangelo at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Sirangelo?=) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [arg_discuss] Derren Brown ARG? Message-ID: <964320.54361.qm@web39502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So i noticed that the always intriguing mentalist Derren Brown is having some ARG-ish fun promoting his new series on Channel 4, 'The Events', premiering next month. http://derrenbrown.channel4.com/ I don't know if the rabbit hole will go further down, but I sure do hope so, can't think of a more exciting subject for an ARG. (Links/minor spoilers below) The video takes you here. And here. Andr? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Veja quais s?o os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com From thomas.maillioux at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 02:31:24 2009 From: thomas.maillioux at gmail.com (Thomas Maillioux) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:31:24 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] When the IRC chat cometh Message-ID: <25de1e4f0908232331l6be2fe65s587adcd41a32f66@mail.gmail.com> Hello, one and all ! My wanton Internet connection is being kind enough to let me remind you that today is the day we gather together on IRC to chit-chat on our dedicated IRC server. As the channel's activity has grown very much these last few weeks, it's slowly been growing more independent from the weekly theme and we'll be very happy to see the discussion go interesting places tonight ! Chat will start at 4PM Central as per usual, and intructions to connect to the channel can be found at http://www.igda.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Games_SIG/IRC_Chats. Hope to see you there ! Yours truly, T. From andrhia at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 09:48:19 2009 From: andrhia at gmail.com (Andrea Phillips) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:48:19 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term Message-ID: <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a@mail.gmail.com> Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place? -- Andrea Phillips http://www.aaphillips.com AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia Words * Culture * Interaction From bclark at gmdstudios.com Mon Aug 31 11:41:13 2009 From: bclark at gmdstudios.com (Brian Clark) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:41:13 -0400 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <991FCB1F0A3044499F7AC01064A06150@Tricorder> That's pretty good meta-bait for a Monday, Andrea. Over the years, I've settled into using Nathan Shedroff's "experience design" as the umbrella (see http://www.nathan.com/ed/ for interesting stuff related to that.) So for me, all ARGs are "designed experiences" but not all designed experiences are ARGs: some are theme parks, some are street games, etc. A paragraph from Nathan will do a better job than anything I could write on why "designed experiences" is as good an umbrella as any: "The most important concept to grasp is that all experiences are important and that we can learn from them whether they are traditional, physical, offline experiences or whether they are digital, online, or other technological experiences. In fact, we know a great deal about experiences and their creation through these other established disciplines that can-and must-be used to develop new solutions. Most technological experiences-including digital and, especially, online experiences-have paled in comparison to real-world experiences and have been relatively unsuccessful as a result. What these solutions require is for their developers to understand what makes a good experience first, and then to translate these principles, as well as possible, into the desired media without the technology dictating the form of the experience." To throw a match on the gasoline: ARG (as a concept) has more of the traits of a genre than of a form. Genres are fuzzy labels, usually created by fans to describe subsets of a form. So I tend to be of the belief that "what is an ARG and what isn't" can't really be broken down by the mechanics of form, there's some je ne se qua involved (which is also more like a genre than a form.) So perhaps "ARGs are a genre of designed experiences" sums up my personal view. Brian From julien at extralab.fr Mon Aug 31 11:53:39 2009 From: julien at extralab.fr (Julien Aubert) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:53:39 +0200 Subject: [arg_discuss] Topic of the Week Aug. 31: Umbrella Term In-Reply-To: <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c799fd60908310648p62a286ebhf304f074efc06e6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46c4cdce0908310853i359188a7u20eb407f92c50830@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, Last Saturday was hold the first transmedia bar camp in Paris. This was organized by leading european telco company Orange which have huge interest in finding a way to make synergies between its own divisions. Professional from television, cinema, virtual world, newspapers and radio were discussing about a whole of intersting topics (storytellling, production, user behaviours tools and so on). Except Michel Reilhac from TV channel Arte (french and german) and Jean-Yves Lemoigne from Orange Labs, nobody knew much about ARGs. I hope I gave them a good input about past productions and new trends. Especially, they were very interested by TV series and extended experiences as LOST. We did'nt really have time to talk about indie productions and ARGs as a new gaming genre. In a very natural way, they all considered ARGs as transmedia experiences with a strong gaming (and maybe role playing) approach. As a consequence, many of them came with the conclusion that put some gaming in transmedia productions is a good way to create interactions between media. Anyway, I'm still not convinced transmedia is a solid umbrella. My two cents --------- julien aubert +33618931813 @juli3n On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Andrea Phillips wrote: > Some of us, by which I mean me, have talked about the classic formula > ARG as being under a yet-undefined umbrella term. What do you call the > umbrella, and what do you think we SHOULD call the umbrella? Or do you > think the whole umbrella concept is iffy in the first place? > > -- > Andrea Phillips > http://www.aaphillips.com > AIM: Andrh1a * Skype: Andrhia > Words * Culture * Interaction > _______________________________________________ > ARG_Discuss mailing list > ARG_Discuss at igda.org > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss >