[arg_discuss] the umbrella (was RE: arg list)

[Wendy Despain]

I have to admit I thought ARGDB was dead, partly because the latest
post on the homepage was a year old.

I'm glad to hear it's still alive.

Wendy Despain



On Fri, April 3, 2009 11:28 am, Brooke Thompson wrote:

> I don't know of any of the existing bits and pieces, but I know that

> there was a pen & paper effort at this during ARGfest SF and there are

> bits and pieces from that on unfiction. Based on that work and

> thinking of the discussion of Sean Stacey's Chaotic Fiction, I believe

> the way to go about it would be a system that let people rate

> experience on several scales and then aggregates that data into a

> chart.

>

> If you just want to have an index card where people can throw context

> down on things - the argdb wiki would work for that... just add more

> bullet points under each game. The difficulty, of course, is in

> actually seeing and relating the games to each other as they're in an

> alphabetical list. However, that information could be put into the

> ARGdb database and then visualized in some manner - it would, of

> course, need to be standardized in some way to actually work.

>

> All that said, if someone wants to create such a system or manner, I'd

> gladly give some smart programmer sort access to the ARGdb site &

> database to help facilitate such a project. I mean we might as well

> take advantage of the information that we've already gathered. I think

> it would be relatively trivial to add a bit onto each game page that

> would let visitors rank the game on various things (such as

> interactivity, platform types, etc) and from that several different

> charts could be created for a variety of uses.

>

>

>

>

> On Apr 3, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Brian Clark wrote:

>

>> Forking this off of "the arg list" discussion, but can't keep my

>> fingers out

>> of the semantical. Making lists and timelines and databases is

>> great, but it

>> immediately begs the definition question: what counts as an element

>> and what

>> doesn't is intrinsic in the discussion.

>>

>> Personally, I'm past the point of worrying about the semantic

>> parsing of

>> ARG. I'm far more interested in the concept of the meta-definition,

>> the

>> umbrella that contains the most stuff that most people thing are

>> "ish" and

>> how we label that across the whole variety.

>>

>> I wonder if we wouldn't be served to think about that, and see if we

>> can let

>> descriptive taxonomy guide the definition. If could envision the

>> "ultimate

>> solution" the physical equivalent would be -- write down each ARG on

>> a card,

>> and tape them up to the wall in a way where "more alike" are closer

>> to each

>> in location than "more different" projects are. Go ahead and throw

>> as much

>> context as necessary on the cards. Where are the clots of similar

>> projects

>> and what are their defining traits (and thus, what else is "near" to

>> them)?

>> Which of the clots fall into "ARG" category, how many into

>> "significantly

>> ARG-like" and how many into the "tends not to be high-related to

>> ARGness"?

>>

>> Then I think, "there's a dissertation worth of dialog" to make that

>> happen,

>> even with the right tool. Does any of the existing efforts (wiki on

>> through)

>> potentially serve as platform adaptable to that kind of "clustering"

>> approach?

>>

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org

>> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org

>> ] On

>> Behalf Of Steve Peters

>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:26 PM

>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] arg list

>>

>> It seems to me we're trying to reinvent the wheel here, to a certain

>> extent.

>> While the main interface to ARGDB was never really finished, there

>> is

>> already a WIKI there that is a really good start. I think it would

>> be much

>> more valuable to have actual WIKI space that can give detailed

>> information

>> about an ARG than to just have a spreadsheet somewhere.

>>

>> Anyway, the framework's there at http://wiki.argdb.com. It should be

>> pretty

>> simple to just start editing away and insert info about the games

>> we've

>> worked on. It'd be nice if someone came up with a standard credit/

>> info box

>> format for each game, but beyond that, folks can just start editing

>> away!

>>

>> And if there's anyone with programming chops, take a look at the

>> main ARGDB

>> interface. It's a really good start and if finished would basically

>> be an

>> IMDB for ARGs if anyone wanted to take it on. :)

>>

>> Steve

>>

>>

>> --------------------

>> Steve Peters

>> Founder, No Mimes Media

>> http://www.nomimes.com

>> mobile: 818.422.4898

>> steve at nomimes.com

>> twitter: vpisteve

>> 34.183042,-118.281252

>>

>>

>> On 4/3/09 9:08 AM, "Wendy Despain" <wendeth at wendydespain.com> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> Well, I decided not to add the projects I've been involved in,

>>> because

>>> although I call them ARGs, nobody else can agree on what to call

>>> them.

>>> They resemble the Lost Experience and Regenesis the most, I

>>> suppose.

>>>

>>> But they happened prior to 2001, and it seemed inappropriate to put

>>> them first on this list ordered by date.

>>>

>>> What agony this kind of list-building is!

>>>

>>> Wendy Despain

>>> quantumcontent.com

>>>

>>>

>>> On Fri, April 3, 2009 9:03 am, Brian Clark wrote:

>>>>> I don't know, and it's probably a matter of semantics, whether

>>>>> you want to distinguish "ARG" from "ARE".

>>>>

>>>> We've done such a great job of answering the "what is an ARG"

>>>> question

>>>> that

>>>> we're totally qualified to add "what is an ARE" and "how is an ARE

>>>> different

>>>> than ARG" to the pile.

>>>>

>>>> My personal opinion, we lack an umbrella term. Makes it hard for

>>>> me

>>>> parse

>>>> out meaning in statements like:

>>>>

>>>>> one could argue "games" like Cloverfield were AREs as well

>>>>

>>>> I think that starts to overextend the ARE label as I understand

>>>> it.

>>>> There

>>>> was the "hope by the fans" of an E at the end of the AR (which in

>>>> this

>>>> case

>>>> was just F.)

>>>>

>>>> But I can imagine some umbrella that would contain it.

>>>>

>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org

>>>> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On

>>>> Behalf Of David Flor

>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:54 AM

>>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>>>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] arg list

>>>>

>>>> Added the ones I was involved with or are directly familiar with

>>>> (White Island, for example), as well as went through and edited

>>>> some

>>>> that I was very familiar with as a player.

>>>>

>>>> I don't know, and it's probably a matter of semantics, whether you

>>>> want to distinguish "ARG" from "ARE". The Lost Experience was

>>>> self-labeled as an "ARE", and one could argue "games" like

>>>> Cloverfield

>>>> were AREs as well.

>>>>

>>>> And do you want to list ARGs that have been announced but not

>>>> launched

>>>> yet, such as our own "Rachel's Walk"?

>>>>

>>>> Tnx & Rgds...

>>>> David Flor

>>>> Darklight Interactive

>>>> "Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

>>>>

>>>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 6:04 AM,  <marcus.helm at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> I've shared a document with you called "arg list":

>>>>>

>>>>

>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pE0znztln2kmQruQyplrzeA&inv=arg_discu

>>>> ss at igda.org

>>>>>

>>>>> It's not an attachment -- it's stored online at Google Docs. To

>>>>> open

>>>>> this

>>>>> document, just click the link above.

>>>>>

>>>>> As mentioned earlier this week, I have begun compiling

>>>>> spreadsheet

>>>>> of

>>>>> ARG's towards getting a listing of the all the brands that have

>>>>> worked

>>>>> with ARGs as well as a listing of independent ARG's for ARGology.

>>>>> Its attached here as an Excel spreadsheet and is very much in the

>>>>> draft

>>>>> stage.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I urge one and all to cast an eye over it, correct mistakes and

>>>>> fill

>>>>> any missing info including the many games that I appologise for

>>>>> not

>>>>> including already. Im also open to persuasion about what

>>>>> constituties

>>>>> and ARG as there are likely to be some contentious inclusions.

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list

>>>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

>>>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

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>>>>

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>>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

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>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Wendy Despain

>>> quantumcontent.com

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list

>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>>

>>

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Wendy Despain
quantumcontent.com