[arg_discuss] the umbrella (was RE: arg list)

[Brian Clark]

Forking this off of "the arg list" discussion, but can't keep my fingers out
of the semantical. Making lists and timelines and databases is great, but it
immediately begs the definition question: what counts as an element and what
doesn't is intrinsic in the discussion. 

Personally, I'm past the point of worrying about the semantic parsing of
ARG. I'm far more interested in the concept of the meta-definition, the
umbrella that contains the most stuff that most people thing are "ish" and
how we label that across the whole variety.

I wonder if we wouldn't be served to think about that, and see if we can let
descriptive taxonomy guide the definition. If could envision the "ultimate
solution" the physical equivalent would be -- write down each ARG on a card,
and tape them up to the wall in a way where "more alike" are closer to each
in location than "more different" projects are. Go ahead and throw as much
context as necessary on the cards. Where are the clots of similar projects
and what are their defining traits (and thus, what else is "near" to them)?
Which of the clots fall into "ARG" category, how many into "significantly
ARG-like" and how many into the "tends not to be high-related to ARGness"?

Then I think, "there's a dissertation worth of dialog" to make that happen,
even with the right tool. Does any of the existing efforts (wiki on through)
potentially serve as platform adaptable to that kind of "clustering"
approach? 



-----Original Message-----
From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Peters
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:26 PM
To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG
Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] arg list

It seems to me we're trying to reinvent the wheel here, to a certain extent.
While the main interface to ARGDB was never really finished, there is
already a WIKI there that is a really good start. I think it would be much
more valuable to have actual WIKI space that can give detailed information
about an ARG than to just have a spreadsheet somewhere.

Anyway, the framework's there at http://wiki.argdb.com. It should be pretty
simple to just start editing away and insert info about the games we've
worked on. It'd be nice if someone came up with a standard credit/info box
format for each game, but beyond that, folks can just start editing away!

And if there's anyone with programming chops, take a look at the main ARGDB
interface. It's a really good start and if finished would basically be an
IMDB for ARGs if anyone wanted to take it on. :)

Steve


--------------------
Steve Peters
Founder, No Mimes Media
http://www.nomimes.com
mobile: 818.422.4898
steve at nomimes.com
twitter: vpisteve
34.183042,-118.281252


On 4/3/09 9:08 AM, "Wendy Despain" <wendeth at wendydespain.com> wrote:


> 

> Well, I decided not to add the projects I've been involved in, because

> although I call them ARGs, nobody else can agree on what to call them.

> They resemble the Lost Experience and Regenesis the most, I suppose.

> 

> But they happened prior to 2001, and it seemed inappropriate to put

> them first on this list ordered by date.

> 

> What agony this kind of list-building is!

> 

> Wendy Despain

> quantumcontent.com

> 

> 

> On Fri, April 3, 2009 9:03 am, Brian Clark wrote:

>>> I don't know, and it's probably a matter of semantics, whether

>>> you want to distinguish "ARG" from "ARE".

>> 

>> We've done such a great job of answering the "what is an ARG" question

>> that

>> we're totally qualified to add "what is an ARE" and "how is an ARE

>> different

>> than ARG" to the pile.

>> 

>> My personal opinion, we lack an umbrella term. Makes it hard for me

>> parse

>> out meaning in statements like:

>> 

>>> one could argue "games" like Cloverfield were AREs as well

>> 

>> I think that starts to overextend the ARE label as I understand it.

>> There

>> was the "hope by the fans" of an E at the end of the AR (which in this

>> case

>> was just F.)

>> 

>> But I can imagine some umbrella that would contain it.

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org

>> [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On

>> Behalf Of David Flor

>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:54 AM

>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] arg list

>> 

>> Added the ones I was involved with or are directly familiar with

>> (White Island, for example), as well as went through and edited some

>> that I was very familiar with as a player.

>> 

>> I don't know, and it's probably a matter of semantics, whether you

>> want to distinguish "ARG" from "ARE". The Lost Experience was

>> self-labeled as an "ARE", and one could argue "games" like Cloverfield

>> were AREs as well.

>> 

>> And do you want to list ARGs that have been announced but not launched

>> yet, such as our own "Rachel's Walk"?

>> 

>> Tnx & Rgds...

>> David Flor

>> Darklight Interactive

>> "Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

>> 

>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 6:04 AM,  <marcus.helm at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I've shared a document with you called "arg list":

>>> 

>>

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pE0znztln2kmQruQyplrzeA&inv=arg_discu

>> ss at igda.org

>>> 

>>> It's not an attachment -- it's stored online at Google Docs. To open

>>> this

>>> document, just click the link above.

>>> 

>>> As mentioned earlier this week, I have begun compiling spreadsheet

>>> of

>>> ARG's towards getting a listing of the all the brands that have

>>> worked

>>> with ARGs as well as a listing of independent ARG's for ARGology.

>>> Its attached here as an Excel spreadsheet and is very much in the

>>> draft

>>> stage.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> I urge one and all to cast an eye over it, correct mistakes and fill

>>> any missing info including the many games that I appologise for not

>>> including already. Im also open to persuasion about what

>>> constituties

>>> and ARG as there are likely to be some contentious inclusions.

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> ARG_Discuss mailing list

>>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>>> 

>> _______________________________________________

>> ARG_Discuss mailing list

>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>> 

>> _______________________________________________

>> ARG_Discuss mailing list

>> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss

>> 

> 

> 

> Wendy Despain

> quantumcontent.com

> 

> _______________________________________________

> ARG_Discuss mailing list

> ARG_Discuss at igda.org

> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/arg_discuss



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