[arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

[Christy Dena]

Ah yes, well, I admittedly used *fantastical* carelessly, but it was
to make the distinction between performing a character and performing
a function clear, of which the former was the meaning used in the
chart.

As for iteration. I like the way you distinguish co-creation. :) As an
allusion to human-computer-interaction, I sometimes use the term
'H-FW-I': human-fictional-world-interaction to describe the
relationship between the fictional world and the players...how the
players contribute to a fictional world and how the fictional world
responds to the player... Which is about diegetic contributions and
acknowledgements...but also, as you say, the degree of responsiveness
(or degree of iterative design) employed by the designer.

To be clear, there may have been a little communication breakdown once
again though...as I wasn't referring what elements make an artwork
better, but to what elements possible HAVE to be present. That is,
principles of universal design -- where people's minds, for some
reason, need certain elements to be present, or present in a certain
way, in order for something to make sense (or whatever other reason).

BUT, perhaps you're saying that responsiveness, or a dynamic nature,
is something people try and do to an artwork even if it doesn't have
these qualities. If so, I certainly agree. I've argued before that
this in fact spills over to media as well...that any technology that
comes out and doesn't facilitate sharing, responsiveness and social
aspects will have to within a few years. People will do these things
around it, hack it etc and then the technology will transform from a
variety of market forces... Indeed, some scholars have argued that the
urge for participation and interactivity isn't created by technology
or indeed some dynamic artwork, but is a long-held urge that was
denied by previous technologies and artworks.


On 6/21/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

> "When I referred to "roleplay" I meant *performing a (fantastical)

> character* (or there abouts) not 'playing a role' as in *participating*."

>

> I guess I'm using a third definition ... "performing a character or putting

> on a persona". Participation in the theater sense (crossing the line from

> passive audience), with some implied level of "playing pretend". Just

> because some people roleplay dark elves and other roleplay Civil War

> soldiers don't change the roleplay aspect ... just like ARGs are capable of

> more than invading aliens or missing people :) Roleplay is also used for

> post-traumatic stress therapy and all kinds of other "serious use" beyond

> elves and Vulcans and lightning bolts!

>

> " Does this mean that there are certain things that an artwork has to

> have?...And if so, why?"

>

> I have an opinion about what I'm experimenting with, but I suspect there is

> more than one way to skin a cat. I think my secret sauce is "iteration"

> which produces a chance to optimize the story with the audience's

> involvement, but that means too much pre-planning on activity-on-rails would

> impact that. Acknowledging that iteration compliments the participants,

> reminds them of the collaborative aspect of the fun. Yet, I see other

> creators make activity-on-rails work with nuance adjustments only.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org] On

> Behalf Of Christy Dena

> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:15 PM

> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>

> Good thoughts Brian. Thanks for sharing them here...I'll be citing them. :)

>

> I just realised one confusion of meaning though. When I referred to

> "roleplay" I meant *performing a (fantastical) character* (or there

> abouts) not 'playing a role' as in *participating*. These are related,

> but two different things. I'm working interstate and so don't have all

> my files & books with me...so I'll have to leave making this pattern

> clearer for another time. And yes, I'm very familiar with Boal. Good

> taste. :)

>

> But also, on your point about 'social status' being player- and

> designer-facilitated. Indeed, this is one aspect of ARGs that I find

> fascinating: seeing how certain elements occur in ARGs no matter what.

> Compared to many traditional artistic practices, ARG designers (for a

> variety of intended and unintended reasons) remove a lot of things,

> but because of the highly collaborative nature of ARGs (among other

> factors) players often put a lot of them back in. I find this

> interesting. Does this mean that there are certain things that an

> artwork has to have?...And if so, why?...

>

> On 6/19/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

>>

>> "Are you saying that all the content in different languages was

>> translations."

>>

>> Yup ... written in English, shipped to translators, published

>> multi-lingually.

>>

>> "I'll have to look up a definition of 'roleplay' that fits this situation"

>>

>> I think the best ones are going to be in theater instead of gaming ... the

>> origin is literally "to play a role". Interactive theater people sometimes

>> use the word "spectactor" from Augusto Boal's work in Theatre of the

>> Oppressed to describe that concept you're looking for:

>>

>> [It refers to the dual role of those involved in the process as both

>> spectator and actor, as they both observe and create dramatic meaning and

>> action in any performance.]

>>

>> "If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do

>> ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players

>> and the designers?"

>>

>> There are some basic tools we're all familiar with. The mother of all

> "play

>> between players" might be speculation (which is the cousin of narrative

>> foreshadowing), while meta-gaming happens between players and designers

> all

>> the time (such as the "hidden reference"). Most of the time, if people are

>> having fun, they'll start playing in addition to gaming (and as a

> developer

>> you just have to leave structure open enough to encourage and celebrate

>> that.)

>>

>> "But how do you see this [constructed play] fitting in with 'social

>> interaction' patterns?"

>>

>> To some extent, but in many ways this happens first and foremost among the

>> players. I can't count the number of times of players have worried and

>> fretted about some collective action, and in the process come up with a

>> scenario they might face better than one we've written ... switching to

>> adapt to that idea is certainly an iterative design philosophy from the

>> developer's end, but it doesn't constitute a true collaboration with the

>> players (in the way, say, the Joker "take a photo with your friends" did.)

>>

>> >From an experience design perspective, the ARG as developed is like a

> piece

>> of clothing lying on a table: it is only truly "as designed" once it is

>> being worn. So from my perspective, that player-player constructive play

> is

>> actually the most magical element, the part that builds from the real-time

>> distributed communities that the Internet is capable of. We're just giving

>> you something to wear.

>>

>> Social status ... so many questions, let me try a provocative response, a

>> theorem designed to be picked apart because any general statement is

> always

>> going to fail:

>>

>> There is no difference between developer-designed social status and

>> player-designed social status, but the two can work together to reinforce

>> each other. Developers are just another kind of "super player".

>>

>> For example, if we as developers generate a "meta story site" (think

>> StolenA3.com) we'll end up summarizing the action that's taken place,

> mixing

>> both characters and players together. Or, in other cases, if you don't

>> publish that as a developer, players will band together and end up doing

>> essentially the same thing ... which is what you're hinting at in your

>> questions. Sometimes this can happen even in the meta-game space, where I

>> throw off a horrible limerick on my BTS blog to link to the Unfiction

>> impromptu Eldritch Limerick contest that arose in cultural remix of the

>> Cloverfield haiku contest Rose started.

>>

>> I'll leave it others to dissect what happens when it gets as explicit as

>> completion or points like some games have had as that looks like muddy

>> ground to me (for example -- were the points in Perplex City part of the

> ARG

>> or just part of the card game or kinda sorta a little of both?)

>>

>> Ambitious chart, Christy, but a good way to tackle some of the issues.

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

> On

>> Behalf Of Christy Dena

>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:37 PM

>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>>

>> Hey Brian,

>>

>> Welcome back! I was wondering how you were.

>>

>> Thanks for taking the time to contribute detailed thoughts. :)

>>

>> And yes, the table is currently data and opinion. It is just an early

>> draft of quick thoughts, that I thought would develop better (and more

>> accurately) with input from others. Currently, my observations are

>> prompts, not conclusions.

>>

>> Urns

>> Are you saying that all the content in different languages was

>> translations. In other words, you didn't try and get players of

>> different languages working together? Whether it succeeded is another

>> issue, which I'll indicate. If so, I'll take Urns off.

>>

>> Roleplay

>> Yes, 'roleplay' does need to be complicated further. I simply wanted

>> to make the point that in ARGs, designers don't usually require

>> players to pretend they are fantastical characters. There is play, of

>> course, but players aren't Orcs, Draculas or Knights (as yet). But,

>> this position needs to be tempered, as you intimate, with an

>> acknowledgement of how players *go outside themselves* to some degree.

>> Some players in Perplex City became short story writers, players in

>> Heist become retrievers etc. I'll have to look up a definition of

>> 'roleplay' that fits this situation...unless someone on this list has

>> one handy...

>>

>> Play & Game

>> Roleplay and play are related but not interchangeable concepts. But

>> the difference between play and game (ludics) is an interesting point

>> to raise in the context of social interaction patterns. Let's have a

>> look at Roger Caillois's definition of paidia and ludus:

>>

>> "At one extreme an almost indivisible principle, common to diversion,

>> turbulence, free improvisation, and carefree gaiety is dominant. It

>> manifests a kind of uncontrolled fantasy that can be designated by the

>> term paidia. At the opposite extreme [.] there is a growing tendency

>> to bind it with arbitrary, imperative, and purposely tedious

>> conventions [.] I call this second component ludus." (27)

>>

>> If 'play' is non-rules-based and involves freedom of choice, how do

>> ARG designers facilitate play between players, or play between players

>> and the designers?...

>>

>> Constructed Play

>> Oh yes, ARGs are co-creative and participatory. But how do you see

>> this fitting in with 'social interaction' patterns? It seems that fits

>> into player-designer interaction (which can be designer and player

>> facilitated), as opposed to the designer-facilitated player-player

>> interaction the chart currently concentrates on.

>>

>> Social Statuses

>> I agree that social status is a part of communities, but there is

>> player-facilitated social status and designer-facilitated social

>> status. I'm interested to know the effects of designer-facilitated

>> social status and whether it is necessary. What do players do to

>> facilitate social status? Is there more player-facilitated social

>> status when designers don't do any or little social-status activities?

>> How do players react to designer-facilitated social status? How

>> important is it to the game? How important is it social interaction?

>>

>> Yay! It's developing!

>>

>> Best,

>> Christy

>>

>> On 6/19/08, Brian Clark <bclark at gmdstudios.com> wrote:

>>> Great work, Christy ... a few bits of data and opinion :)

>>>

>>> I'm not sure Urns counts as "challenges are issued in different

> languages,

>>> facilitating players sharing translations in order to reach a subgoal and

>>> keep the game progressing" like you say. The narrative was translated

> into

>>> all of those languages to allow players in each of those countries to

>>> participate in a global experience, but in reality English remained the

>>> lingua franca of the meta-narrative and the player community. I guess one

>>> could argue that it helped create a more internationalized player base.

>>>

>>> Conversely, Heist did use elements in foreign languages that were

> intended

>>> to require the community recruiting a new native speaker (there are bits

>> of

>>> that in many ARGs though, as it is a puzzle type that requires

>> recruitment.)

>>>

>>> I also take some issue with the way you defined roleplaying: I'd make the

>>> argument that a very large percentage of ARG players are roleplaying in a

>>> transformative way. Jane McGonigal described that well as a player of

>> Heist:

>>> she was trying on an alternate Jane McGonigal. Eldritch players who went

>> to

>>> West Virginia also found themselves "roleplaying themselves". There's as

>>> much "play" in an ARG as there is "game".

>>>

>>> I'd also argue that many ARGs involve the element of "constructive play"

>> --

>>> the ARG is being written in collaboration between the creators and

>>> participants. Player's just don't often glimpse how much is or isn't on

>>> rails on the "other side of the curtain".

>>>

>>> "Social statuses" is also the key to how community functions: there are

>>> always "more famous players" than others in the legacy of a finished game

>>> (which is an innate comprehension of "social status" with a coarse

>> mechanism

>>> like a scoreboard.)

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org [mailto:arg_discuss-bounces at igda.org]

>> On

>>> Behalf Of John Evans

>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:14 AM

>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG

>>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] Social Interaction in ARGs

>>>

>>>>Hey everyone,

>>>>

>>>>The following is a resource I've been working on myself, but am thinking

>>>>I'll add it in some way to the ARG Design section of ARGology. In it I

>> draw

>>>>on existing game design patterns for social interaction, and see how they

>>>>apply to ARGs. The listing I have is just a quick draft.

>>>>

>>>>http://www.christydena.com/Primer/ARGDashboard_Interaction.html

>>>>

>>>>I'd love to hear you thoughts on examples to add, anything you don't

> agree

>>>>with, and also how I should present the information. I don't find the

>>> manner

>>>>I have presented it at the moment user-friendly. Should I move it to the

>>>>ARGology wiki for instance?

>>>

>>> That's awesome, Christy. It *does* seem like a good topic for the wiki,

> in

>>> the sense that people who are experts in one game or another will be able

>>> to talk about the activities involved in that particular game. I could

>>> help out with moving it to the Wiki if you need some "grunt

>> HTML/Wiki-code"

>>> work done. ;)

>>>

>>> Though, I have to be honest, I look at that chart and I think "So how can

>> I

>>> create a game that fills in some of these empty categories?". Hmmm...

>>>

>>> --John Evans

>>> Chaoseed Software - http://chaoseed.com

>>>

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