[arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction
Jay Bushman
jaybushman at gmail.com
Tue Jan 8 23:22:46 EST 2008
I've always thought of the puzzles as analogous to TV commercials -
albeit really neat, intriguing commercials. At the end of the day,
they're impediments to the story progression, and the crucial bit is
to make sure the audience/players care enough about the story to plow
through/solve/wait for someone else to figure out the solution so they
can get to that next little chewy bit of story goodness.
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On Jan 8, 2008, at 8:11 PM, Michael Monello wrote:
> Well, the puzzles have always been the least interesting aspect of
> ARGs for me, since so few of them are truly integrated within the
> narrative. I think it's much more interesting to have the audience
> guide characters down different paths rather than solve puzzles to
> unlock another piece of story, so I do think the kinds of challenges
> we put into our narratives needs to be rethought -- regardless of
> everything else we are discussing here.
>
> But given that the tiniest sliver of the audience actually solves
> ARG puzzles and the vast majority of people get the answers from
> that group, if your ARG is boring because the audience is getting
> those answers then you have problems that go way deeper than how the
> audience is organized!
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Ian Millington wrote:
>
>> ARG-puzzle solutions tend to be liberally shared. Because once a
>> puzzle falls the whole world (clan in your case) rushes through to
>> the
>> next state, what would stop the first team communicating the solution
>> to someone in the next team, and that second team then finding the
>> game boring? Most of team two wouldn't want to cheat - but the
>> communal nature of ARGs means that only one would have to.
>>
>> Having individual play trajectories seems to imply having individual
>> challenges. Which in turn suggests that the knowledge-based puzzles
>> that are the staple of ARGs would have to be minimized in favour of
>> skill-based challenges.
>>
>> Using TV metaphors another option would be the soap-opera - designed
>> to be very easy to drop into at any stage, with the corresponding
>> inability to build coherent dramatic story arcs.
>>
>> I dunno... even the clan idea feels a little too conservative to
>> me...
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>> On 08/01/2008, Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com> wrote:
>>> I haven't thought this all the way through, I'm just spitballing
>>> with
>>> the group here, but I don't think it has to add that much staff if
>>> the
>>> game is structured from the ground up with this in mind. Everyone
>>> would be playing the game in real time, it's just that the community
>>> would be split into smaller groups, or clans, to allow for a wider
>>> variety of community cultures. Think of it in terms of Everquest --
>>> it's a big world and you can see what other clans are doing, but you
>>> are playing in your own group or clan with your own clan culture.
>>>
>>> You are aware of the other groups, especially when it comes to
>>> character interaction and live events, but you are really working
>>> closely in smaller clans which are not in competition with each
>>> other.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Michael Monello
>>> Partner, Campfire
>>> 62 White Street, 3W
>>> New York, NY 10013
>>> 212-612-9600
>>> http://www.campfirenyc.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2008, at 5:52 PM, libfli at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> i really like this idea. my only concern would be dealing with
>>>> having enough manpower needed to run the game. if it's staggered
>>>> like this and the ARG has an interactive storyline, depending on
>>>> how
>>>> many "groups" you have involved, you would have to staff each
>>>> group's game. and, depending on the choices of each group, i'm not
>>>> certain each group would end up in the same place. (but that might
>>>> make it even more interesting) :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> happy happy new year!
>>>>
>>>> Jan Libby
>>>>
>>>> (labfly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>
>>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>
>>>> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:13 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps there is a more organic way to do this. I'm thinking about
>>>> how time zones naturally divide up the television audience, yet by
>>>> the end of the day all the zones are caught up and everyone can
>>>> chat
>>>> about the most recent episode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words, you launch an ARG and the audience is divided up by
>>>> when they join in, yet you don't have to necessarily start at
>>>> episode 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A simple example: the first week, everyone who joins becomes "Group
>>>> A."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Week 2 starts a new episode, and Group A plays through it, but
>>>> everyone who joins in on it in week 2 becomes Group B. Group B has
>>>> all the community tools of group A, but they are not mixed in with
>>>> Group A in the game forums or the collaborative puzzles, which
>>>> forces that group to organically form it's own culture for the
>>>> game,
>>>> independent of the culture developed by the more established
>>>> Group A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Each week, a new group. At the end of an episode, all the groups
>>>> can
>>>> discuss, because they are all at the same place in the story, but
>>>> those in the newest groups don't have to contend with the experts
>>>> who have been playing for a month when it comes to the actual game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The groupings have to be completely organic and mostly behind the
>>>> scenes, as ultimately everyone is essentially playing "live", which
>>>> also allows you to have the events and non-repeatable elements that
>>>> are so important to these games.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allowing new groups of players to form their own cultures would
>>>> eliminate many of the issues that ARG's face after launch, in my
>>>> opinion. It's not joining a narrative in progress that is difficult
>>>> -- TV viewers do that all the time and bringing people up to speed
>>>> on a narrative is easy -- it's trying to join a well-established
>>>> and
>>>> dense community that is steeped in historical experience that
>>>> overwhelms and intimidates new people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Monello
>>>>
>>>> Partner, Campfire
>>>>
>>>> 62 White Street, 3W
>>>>
>>>> New York, NY 10013
>>>>
>>>> 212-612-9600
>>>>
>>>> http://www.campfirenyc.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:31 PM, John Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nice analogy, Ian. And another pillar to support my argument that
>>>>
>>>>> finite automata should be taught in high school. ;)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO any solution would have to put people in their own rooms,
>>>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>>> their own challenges and individual agency, while keeping the
>>>>>> overall
>>>>
>>>>>> collaborative feeling of the ARG. As Michael wrote, that is a
>>>>>> radical
>>>>
>>>>>> restructure of the mechanism of the ARG.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So you'd need some "rooms" that everyone had to go through on
>>>>> their
>>>>
>>>>> own. However, one of the great strengths of ARGs is the
>>>>> multiplayer/
>>>>
>>>>> collaboration aspect, so you'd also need "rooms" within which
>>>>> everyone
>>>>
>>>>> could congregate. Except that they're not really rooms, they're
>>>>
>>>>> "events" or "states".
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it isn't a coincidence that interactive fiction is also a
>>>>>> genre
>>>>
>>>>>> that has almost no direct monetization. But then again, that
>>>>>> probably
>>>>
>>>>>> pushes the analogy too far.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, IF used to be monetized. I remember owning Wishbringer for
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> C128. Eventually it became "adventure games"...The point seems
>>>>> to be
>>>>
>>>>> that you can sell interactive fiction as long as it has game-style
>>>>
>>>>> graphics. I guess?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=package&SubId=539&cc=US
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There's an interesting idea. What if an ARG had graphics the
>>>>> equal of
>>>>
>>>>> a "standard" computer game, but was organized like an ARG?...I
>>>>> guess
>>>>
>>>>> it would be Uru Live, I answered my own question.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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