[arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction

[Michael Monello]

Well, the puzzles have always been the least interesting aspect of  
ARGs for me, since so few of them are truly integrated within the  
narrative. I think it's much more interesting to have the audience  
guide characters down different paths rather than solve puzzles to  
unlock another piece of story, so I do think the kinds of challenges  
we put into our narratives needs to be rethought -- regardless of  
everything else we are discussing here.

But given that the tiniest sliver of the audience actually solves ARG  
puzzles and the vast majority of people get the answers from that  
group, if your ARG is boring because the audience is getting those  
answers then you have problems that go way deeper than how the  
audience is organized!

Best,

Mike

On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Ian Millington wrote:


> ARG-puzzle solutions tend to be liberally shared. Because once a

> puzzle falls the whole world (clan in your case) rushes through to the

> next state, what would stop the first team communicating the solution

> to someone in the next team, and that second team then finding the

> game boring? Most of team two wouldn't want to cheat - but the

> communal nature of ARGs means that only one would have to.

>

> Having individual play trajectories seems to imply having individual

> challenges. Which in turn suggests that the knowledge-based puzzles

> that are the staple of ARGs would have to be minimized in favour of

> skill-based challenges.

>

> Using TV metaphors another option would be the soap-opera - designed

> to be very easy to drop into at any stage, with the corresponding

> inability to build coherent dramatic story arcs.

>

> I dunno... even the clan idea feels a little too conservative to me...

>

> Ian.

>

>

> On 08/01/2008, Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com> wrote:

>> I haven't thought this all the way through, I'm just spitballing with

>> the group here, but I don't think it has to add that much staff if  

>> the

>> game is structured from the ground up with this in mind. Everyone

>> would be playing the game in real time, it's just that the community

>> would be split into smaller groups, or clans, to allow for a wider

>> variety of community cultures. Think of it in terms of Everquest --

>> it's a big world and you can see what other clans are doing, but you

>> are playing in your own group or clan with your own clan culture.

>>

>> You are aware of the other groups, especially when it comes to

>> character interaction and live events, but you are really working

>> closely in smaller clans which are not in competition with each  

>> other.

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Michael Monello

>> Partner, Campfire

>> 62 White Street, 3W

>> New York, NY 10013

>> 212-612-9600

>> http://www.campfirenyc.com

>>

>>

>>

>> On Jan 7, 2008, at 5:52 PM, libfli at aol.com wrote:

>>

>>> i really like this idea.  my only concern would be dealing with

>>> having enough manpower needed to run the game.  if it's staggered

>>> like this and the ARG has an interactive storyline, depending on how

>>> many "groups" you have involved, you would have to staff each

>>> group's game.  and, depending on the choices of each group, i'm not

>>> certain each group would end up in the same place.  (but that might

>>> make it even more interesting) :)

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> happy happy new year!

>>>

>>> Jan Libby

>>>

>>> (labfly)

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: Michael Monello <mmonello at campfirenyc.com>

>>> To: Discussion list of the IGDA ARG SIG <arg_discuss at igda.org>

>>> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:13 pm

>>> Subject: Re: [arg_discuss] ARGs/Interactive Fiction

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Perhaps there is a more organic way to do this. I'm thinking about

>>> how time zones naturally divide up the television audience, yet by

>>> the end of the day all the zones are caught up and everyone can chat

>>> about the most recent episode.

>>>

>>>

>>> In other words, you launch an ARG and the audience is divided up by

>>> when they join in, yet you don't have to necessarily start at

>>> episode 1.

>>>

>>>

>>> A simple example: the first week, everyone who joins becomes "Group

>>> A."

>>>

>>>

>>> Week 2 starts a new episode, and Group A plays through it, but

>>> everyone who joins in on it in week 2 becomes Group B. Group B has

>>> all the community tools of group A, but they are not mixed in with

>>> Group A in the game forums or the collaborative puzzles, which

>>> forces that group to organically form it's own culture for the game,

>>> independent of the culture developed by the more established Group  

>>> A.

>>>

>>>

>>> Each week, a new group. At the end of an episode, all the groups can

>>> discuss, because they are all at the same place in the story, but

>>> those in the newest groups don't have to contend with the experts

>>> who have been playing for a month when it comes to the actual game.

>>>

>>>

>>> The groupings have to be completely organic and mostly behind the

>>> scenes, as ultimately everyone is essentially playing "live", which

>>> also allows you to have the events and non-repeatable elements that

>>> are so important to these games.

>>>

>>>

>>> Allowing new groups of players to form their own cultures would

>>> eliminate many of the issues that ARG's face after launch, in my

>>> opinion. It's not joining a narrative in progress that is difficult

>>> -- TV viewers do that all the time and bringing people up to speed

>>> on a narrative is easy -- it's trying to join a well-established and

>>> dense community that is steeped in historical experience that

>>> overwhelms and intimidates new people.

>>>

>>>

>>> Best,

>>>

>>>

>>> Michael Monello

>>>

>>> Partner, Campfire

>>>

>>> 62 White Street, 3W

>>>

>>> New York, NY 10013

>>>

>>> 212-612-9600

>>>

>>> http://www.campfirenyc.com

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:31 PM, John Evans wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>> Nice analogy, Ian. And another pillar to support my argument that

>>>

>>>> finite automata should be taught in high school. ;)

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> [snip]

>>>

>>>>> IMHO any solution would have to put people in their own rooms,  

>>>>> with

>>>

>>>>> their own challenges and individual agency, while keeping the

>>>>> overall

>>>

>>>>> collaborative feeling of the ARG. As Michael wrote, that is a

>>>>> radical

>>>

>>>>> restructure of the mechanism of the ARG.

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> So you'd need some "rooms" that everyone had to go through on their

>>>

>>>> own. However, one of the great strengths of ARGs is the  

>>>> multiplayer/

>>>

>>>> collaboration aspect, so you'd also need "rooms" within which

>>>> everyone

>>>

>>>> could congregate. Except that they're not really rooms, they're

>>>

>>>> "events" or "states".

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>>> Maybe it isn't a coincidence that interactive fiction is also a

>>>>> genre

>>>

>>>>> that has almost no direct monetization. But then again, that

>>>>> probably

>>>

>>>>> pushes the analogy too far.

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> Well, IF used to be monetized. I remember owning Wishbringer for  

>>>> the

>>>

>>>> C128. Eventually it became "adventure games"...The point seems to  

>>>> be

>>>

>>>> that you can sell interactive fiction as long as it has game-style

>>>

>>>> graphics. I guess?

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php? 

>>>> area=package&SubId=539&cc=US

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> There's an interesting idea. What if an ARG had graphics the  

>>>> equal of

>>>

>>>> a "standard" computer game, but was organized like an ARG?...I  

>>>> guess

>>>

>>>> it would be Uru Live, I answered my own question.

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>> --John

>>>

>>>>

>>>

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